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Review for BookMap www.bookmap.com


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Review for BookMap www.bookmap.com

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  #101 (permalink)
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oldporkchops View Post
Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your response.

I understand that data isn't your core business, but we all need data to use your services. It's a chicken and egg issue.

Since Rithmic offers CME Market-by-Order, I've signed up for a 14 day Rithmic trial but was unable to add it to my Free Digital Bookmap platform. Do I need it to access Replay Mode for US Futures? If not, how do I go about downloading data for Replay Mode so I can familiarize myself with the platform on Crude Oil?

Thanks,
Oldporkchops


Hi,

The free Bookmap version only works with 1 digital currency in the live market. It also connects to a delayed dxfeed for US equities, and allows for a previously recorded futures file to be played in Replay Mode -- this file is included in the Bookmap download. This should give you a good sense of how Bookmap operates.

If you'd like to connect to live futures and/or US Equities data, then you will need to subscribe to Bookmap for at least a month. Cancel at any time, but you still get access for the amount of time you paid for. Note you will also need to provide the data.

regards,

Bruce

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  #102 (permalink)
 Aragorn 
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Bookmap View Post
Hi,

Just a note, this is not our business. Bookmap is a software platform, not data nor broker services. I recommend you try Rithmic free for 2 weeks and also subscribe to dxfeed for one month for CME data only, for $29. See what one works best for you.

That said, both data feeds display full market depth -- this is a significant advantage over other data feeds. There are no issues with latency. I know Rithmic offers CME Market-by-Order data as well. This the future of transparent data for retail traders. I am not sure dxfeed offers that, you'll have to ask them.

regards,

Bruce

Hmmm, that's interesting... "both data feeds display full market depth"? I spent $29 to get BookMap to "display full market depth" and I'm still waiting for it. Can't get yesterday's to display and can't get today's to display. Just when am I supposed to get it? Cancelled my one month subscription. Can't wait to find out what I "can't get" next week. Wait, let me guess... I can't get a refund. This is the reality of data issues. As you can see, Loading historical data, which the screenshot clearly shows I needed, was grayed out and unavailable.

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 tr8er 
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I hope you know that all markets are closed today?

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  #104 (permalink)
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tr8er View Post
I hope you know that all markets are closed today?

Yes, thanks Tr8er, No data in Bookmap today in US markets sine they're closed.

Bruce
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Aragorn View Post
Hmmm, that's interesting... "both data feeds display full market depth"? I spent $29 to get BookMap to "display full market depth" and I'm still waiting for it. Can't get yesterday's to display and can't get today's to display. Just when am I supposed to get it? Cancelled my one month subscription. Can't wait to find out what I "can't get" next week. Wait, let me guess... I can't get a refund. This is the reality of data issues. As you can see, Loading historical data, which the screenshot clearly shows I needed, was grayed out and unavailable.

Aragorn,

As Tr8er mentioned, the markets are closed today. When you start Bookmap, a tick or occurrence must take place in the live market in order for data to begin loading, therefore new nor historical data will be displayed today in Bookmap. However, you can use Replay Mode to replay a recorded file. You maybe consider checking out our youtube page and searching for Bookmap Replay Mode. You'll see some videos there on how to operate it. Else, you'll need to wait until the market opens to begin receiving data.

regards,

Bruce
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  #106 (permalink)
 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
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Bookmap View Post
Aragorn,

As Tr8er mentioned, the markets are closed today. When you start Bookmap, a tick or occurrence must take place in the live market in order for data to begin loading, therefore new nor historical data will be displayed today in Bookmap. However, you can use Replay Mode to replay a recorded file. You maybe consider checking out our youtube page and searching for Bookmap Replay Mode. You'll see some videos there on how to operate it. Else, you'll need to wait until the market opens to begin receiving data.

regards,

Bruce
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I am/was very much aware that the Markets are closed today. I purchased the historical data early Thursday morning MST. I attempted to load Wednesday's historical data to no avail. I asked Support if there was a set time data resets for each day. I got no answer to the question. Towards the end of the day I attempted to again load the data either for Wednesday or Thursday. Again to no avail.
As a matter of fact, and you can check for yourself, the market traded 1 contract after the Close. I know, I was watching it, as I was attempting to load data.

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Aragorn View Post
I am/was very much aware that the Markets are closed today. I purchased the historical data early Thursday morning MST. I attempted to load Wednesday's historical data to no avail. I asked Support if there was a set time data resets for each day. I got no answer to the question. Towards the end of the day I attempted to again load the data either for Wednesday or Thursday. Again to no avail.
As a matter of fact, and you can check for yourself, the market traded 1 contract after the Close. I know, I was watching it, as I was attempting to load data.

Hi Aragorn,

I think it best to continue this thread at support@bookmap.com. Please mention your questions from Futures.io and put it to my attention as well. I'd be happy to assist you further. I can get you replay data so you can check out Bookmap over the weekend.

regards,

Bruce
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  #108 (permalink)
 Aragorn 
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Bookmap View Post
Hi Aragorn,

I think it best to continue this thread at support@bookmap.com. Please mention your questions from Futures.io and put it to my attention as well. I'd be happy to assist you further. I can get you replay data so you can check out Bookmap over the weekend.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

As this is a Review of BookMap it seems fitting to update on the previous discussion.
I received a response from BookMap support telling me that their server was down on Thursday. That would explain why the historical data was unavailable.
I did contact support@bookmap.com. Please keep in mind, as I have, it is Easter weekend. Bruce responded and resolved the data issue. Thank-you!

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Aragorn View Post
As this is a Review of BookMap it seems fitting to update on the previous discussion.
I received a response from BookMap support telling me that their server was down on Thursday. That would explain why the historical data was unavailable.
I did contact support@bookmap.com. Please keep in mind, as I have, it is Easter weekend. Bruce responded and resolved the data issue. Thank-you!


Thanks Aragorn, happy holiday.

Bruce
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 Perpetual888 
Vancouver Island
 
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Not impressed so far....

I'm at point of purchase with this product, but need answers to a few technical questions first. Posted questions here in the Bookmap AMA thread more than a week ago - no reply. Sent email to info@bookmap - no reply. Sent email to support@bookmap - received a ticket number in an auto-reply email, but no response beyond that.

My plan was to have this connected and ready for trading this week.

Quite concerned that if I can't get responses to needed information as a potential customer, what would support response be like if I become a user??

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 Aragorn 
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Perpetual888 View Post
Not impressed so far....

What's your question?

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  #113 (permalink)
 Perpetual888 
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Aragorn View Post
What's your question?


I’m in Canada and IB is my broker. I primarily trade US energy futures on Nymex and would like to keep IB as my broker but use dxFeed for data. What’s the cost of the dxFeed data added on?

Also, I trade using IB TWS on a Mac. Are there differences between Bookmap for Mac vs Bookmap for PC? If so, could I run Bookmap on my PC with the dxFeed and IB as my broker, while concurrently running TWS and IB provided data for other instruments and trades on my Mac?

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  #114 (permalink)
 Aragorn 
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Perpetual888 View Post
I’m in Canada and IB is my broker. I primarily trade US energy futures on Nymex and would like to keep IB as my broker but use dxFeed for data. What’s the cost of the dxFeed data added on?

Also, I trade using IB TWS on a Mac. Are there differences between Bookmap for Mac vs Bookmap for PC? If so, could I run Bookmap on my PC with the dxFeed and IB as my broker, while concurrently running TWS and IB provided data for other instruments and trades on my Mac?

Here is the pricing link for dxFeed: https://bookmap.com/dxfeed/
BookMap does have a Mac version. It is different than a PC.
You would have to use the same login credentials. Regardless of the feed that you use, so long as the account credentials are the same both would be connected to your Broker.

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Perpetual888 View Post
I’m in Canada and IB is my broker. I primarily trade US energy futures on Nymex and would like to keep IB as my broker but use dxFeed for data. What’s the cost of the dxFeed data added on?

Also, I trade using IB TWS on a Mac. Are there differences between Bookmap for Mac vs Bookmap for PC? If so, could I run Bookmap on my PC with the dxFeed and IB as my broker, while concurrently running TWS and IB provided data for other instruments and trades on my Mac?

Why not use Rithmic for data and execution? That way you do not need an external feed.
Yes, you will need to open a USA based account as Rithmic is not offered via Canadian FCMs as far as I know.

Thank you,
Matt Z
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Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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 tr8er 
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Yes Matt is right Rithmic would be the best data-source (because it is the only one with the entire order-book and would show all important levels), but you can also connect with your IB data-source (which isn't the best) as well.

DxFeed is for stocks!

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 Perpetual888 
Vancouver Island
 
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Aragorn View Post
Here is the pricing link for dxFeed: https://bookmap.com/dxfeed/
BookMap does have a Mac version. It is different than a PC.
You would have to use the same login credentials. Regardless of the feed that you use, so long as the account credentials are the same both would be connected to your Broker.

Thanks for the dxFeed link. I had already seen it, however, was planning to get Bookmap using their promo price for annual subscription and save a considerable amount compared to paying monthly. The dxFeed data selection form only has the single month purchase option for Bookmap. I'm assuming it's only an additional $29/month for Nymex.

I'm hoping what you're saying about login credentials is correct, but have run into difficulties with IB before when attempting to connect to TWS while also connected elsewhere. As soon as I logged onto the other platform, IB immediately disconnected me from real-time data in TWS. I can check with IB about this, but figured since Bookmap is promoting its use with IB as a broker, they would know the answer.

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  #118 (permalink)
 Aragorn 
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tr8er View Post
Yes Matt is right Rithmic would be the best data-source (because it is the only one with the entire order-book and would show all important levels), but you can also connect with your IB data-source (which isn't the best) as well.

DxFeed is for stocks!

Good point. If dxFeed doesn't show market depth, or is limited, than an important component of BM is lost.

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  #119 (permalink)
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tr8er View Post
Yes Matt is right Rithmic would be the best data-source (because it is the only one with the entire order-book and would show all important levels), but you can also connect with your IB data-source (which isn't the best) as well.

DxFeed is for stocks!

Yes, but if you use 2 data feeds, then you are just lading up your systems and slowing your execution.

Matt Z
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There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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 Perpetual888 
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mattz View Post
Why not use Rithmic for data and execution? That way you do not need an external feed.
Yes, you will need to open a USA based account as Rithmic is not offered via Canadian FCMs as far as I know.

Thanks Matt. I'll have to take a closer look at Rithmic.

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Perpetual888 View Post
Thanks Matt. I'll have to take a closer look at Rithmic.

Would be glad to give you a demo for Rithmic and help you out.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

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Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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 Aragorn 
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mattz View Post
Would be glad to give you a demo for Rithmic and help you out.

Nice! Nothing better than a try it before you buy it. Best of all worlds to see if it suits and fits your needs.

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Perpetual888 View Post
Thanks Matt. I'll have to take a closer look at Rithmic.

Would be glad to give you a demo for Rithmic and help you out.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #124 (permalink)
 Perpetual888 
Vancouver Island
 
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So, I just checked to re-confirm that dxFeed does now offer full-depth data, and they do supply data for CME Group futures, as well as for US stocks. Their website promotes both of these services.

With respect to concerns about using two data feeds - that's why I specifically asked Bookmap this question "Could I run Bookmap on my PC with the dxFeed and IB as my broker, while concurrently running TWS and IB provided data for other instruments and trades on my Mac?"

I would like IBs real-time data feed to go to the Mac running TWS for other trades (options, spreads, etc), while the dxFeed data would go to the PC, which would be running Bookmap for futures trading.

Hopefully that makes sense....

I really appreciate all the comments and Matt's offer. Will take some time to consider all of this over the weekend and reconnect with it early next week.

Cheers!

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  #125 (permalink)
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Perpetual888 View Post
I’m in Canada and IB is my broker. I primarily trade US energy futures on Nymex and would like to keep IB as my broker but use dxFeed for data. What’s the cost of the dxFeed data added on?

Also, I trade using IB TWS on a Mac. Are there differences between Bookmap for Mac vs Bookmap for PC? If so, could I run Bookmap on my PC with the dxFeed and IB as my broker, while concurrently running TWS and IB provided data for other instruments and trades on my Mac?

Hi Perpetual888,

I apologize for the late response, somehow I didn't receive the automatic email informing us someone asked a question in Futures.IO. Nonetheless, you've received some very nice feedback by other traders.

There are only minor differences between the Mac and PC Bookmap versions, mostly due to keyboard layouts, etc. Note you can only have one instance of Bookmap open at a time. However, you can connect that particular Bookmap instance to multiple data providers at the same time like Rithmic, IB, dxFeed, GDAX, and several others. You will not be able to run Bookmap at the same time on the Mac and PC unless you have 2 separate Bookmap licenses.

If you run dxFeed for stocks, you can routes orders from Bookmap directly to your IB account. This will not work for futures though. You can also connect Bookmap to IB TWS for futures and trade from Bookmap. Your IB TWS will need to remain open, Or you could connect Bookmap to dxfeed for futures but trade from your Mac connected to your IB TWS. There are many scenarios here. Perhaps a phone call to 917-708-8171 would be easier to clarify these connectivity scenarios.

Yes, both Rithmic and dxfeed for Futures offer full market depth for CME, CBOT, COMEX, NYMEX. This is a very nice advantage in depth transparency which can be very useful for much higher time frame order flow analysis and insights.

regards,

Bruce
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  #126 (permalink)
 ziggy123 
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Out or curiosity - is there a reason for an individual to own/ pay for bookmap now that Ninjatrader has

Orderloe tools such as the “HeatMap” (rearing bid & ask map) + order size (balloons) and delta footprint ?

I’m asking this as a LIFETIME OWNER of Ninja.


Cheers,
S

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  #127 (permalink)
 ABQJuan 
Albuquerque, NM United States
 
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Bookmap offers a free version - limited to one crypto. Why don't you download it and see for yourself?

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  #128 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
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ziggy123 View Post
Out or curiosity - is there a reason for an individual to own/ pay for bookmap now that Ninjatrader has

Orderloe tools such as the “HeatMap” (rearing bid & ask map) + order size (balloons) and delta footprint ?

I’m asking this as a LIFETIME OWNER of Ninja.


Cheers,
S

The information presented by BookMap is subjective at best. This is the same for NinjaTrader's version and is the same for Jigsaw.

The Bookmap version likely has lots more bells and whistles and perhaps is more attractive to look at. A better question to ask would be, how is BookMap going to help improve my trading vs. using NinjaTrader's own version.

That is a rhetorical question in a sense because all these types of software do is display and organise information.

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 ziggy123 
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Totally agree - I own One of the sokutions - and cannot say I have found an “edge”.

I also believe Pete Davis from Jigsaw once said something along the lines that it’s not the “holy grail “ - and context is king (or something along those lines)

Logically thinking - you are only seeing “resting” orders on the “heatmap” - where pulling and adding + icebergs orders can be “played “ - so like anything else - it works in some instances - and not in others 😎

Cheers 🍷



JonnyBoy View Post
The information presented by BookMap is subjective at best. This is the same for NinjaTrader's version and is the same for Jigsaw.

The Bookmap version likely has lots more bells and whistles and perhaps is more attractive to look at. A better question to ask would be, how is BookMap going to help improve my trading vs. using NinjaTrader's own version.

That is a rhetorical question in a sense because all these types of software do is display and organise information.


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  #130 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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I'm going to disagree here on Bookmap. I signed up about a week ago. This weekend I spent about 10 hours in replay. Traded the CL live this morning. I have to say that I find it quite interesting and useful once you jump over how the "bubbles" are working. I'm looking for support for my own algos which run on Ninja 7 charts along with Jigsaw. I don't run Ninja 8 so I don't see their version of a Bookmap-like indicator.

If you combine Jigsaw with Bookmap I think you're getting a lot of useful information which is very graphic. This afternoon I went over my trades today in replay. It definitely supports my entries along with Jigsaw; conversely I can see when I should wait a few ticks before entering.

I generally make videos of interesting days or examples I want to review. When I have time, I'll make a video of what I saw today. The ramp up at 6 AM PST was clear as a bell. Then another ramp after the NYSE open. The absorption on Jigsaw combined with the volume bubbles gives a lot of confidence if your algo/setup triggers which mine did.

I think it just takes time (like 10 hours this weekend and this afternoon in replay of my trades!) to put it all together. May not be for everyone, but so far, I like it.

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 fivewhy 
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ziggy123 View Post
Out or curiosity - is there a reason for an individual to own/ pay for bookmap now that Ninjatrader has

Orderloe tools such as the “HeatMap” (rearing bid & ask map) + order size (balloons) and delta footprint ?

I’m asking this as a LIFETIME OWNER of Ninja.

Cheers,
S

I find this to be a very important question.

Bookmap has the mbo and historical backfill with full market depth when using Rithmic. dxFeed has these things too, except I am not sure about mbo data with dxFeed. I use CQG data with NT8; CQG does not have full depth, or historical backfill, or mbo data. Further, NT8 (and its market depth or "heat map") cannot do historical backfill or take advantage of mbo data. The lack of support for mbo data, I believe, prevents the zooming down into the microsecond like you can with Bookmap..tho I don't really find that to be a big deal. Also, NT8 does not have a true tick cahrt like Bookmap; it has down to one second bars and this is usually fine for me. Maybe others can slice up that sub-second data better than me to discern actionable info. I can't. But mbo data shows your position in the queue if you use limit order entries like me. NT8 should darn(?) sure figure this out and use it. Jigsaw also lacks historical backfill and mbo data support, unless that has changed recently.

Anyway, I know next to nothing and act smarter than I am. But if there was a way to amalgamate the positive attributes of NT8, Jigsaw, and Bookmap into one platform and sold for a reasonable price..that provider would have a lot of customers. For the price though, there's no reason not to have all three. You can make plenty of money to afford all three if you have a basic understanding of auction market theory, have a modicum of screen time just watching price, and understand how to use each platform...in my opinion. I find these three to have everything that is needed. My problem is and has always been my mental state.

Jigsaw has the order book. NT8 has the broad charting and general study (writing scripts to test for whatever statistical occurrences and gather data). And Bookmap has the passive map side. Both Bookmap and NT8 have the active side trade bubbles; it's nice to see active trade bubbles on something other than Bookmap's tick chart...and by tick chart I do not mean tick-count-based bars; I mean tick chart.

Not sure what my original point was . . .

https://www.cmegroup.com/education/market-by-order-mbo.html

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 ziggy123 
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Thanks @fivewhy - was never aware that Jigsaw (I own it) does not have a backfill for historical data - and nor Ninja for their order flow analysis tools (I own Ninja as well).

Wasn’t sure what “MBO” stands for ? (Major block orders ? &#128526

I have also watched delta footprint for a long time - and cannot say I have found an “edge”.

Also mainly as a CL trader - these tools are less adequate - as it is a thin market.

Just my 2c 🍷

P.S. Fort Lauderdale you say? Love that city! Used to live in the area in 1996 - is Mango’s still around on Las Olas Blvd - or the “elbow room” on the corner next to the beach ? (Baja beach club used to be next to it I think )

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 fivewhy 
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ziggy123 View Post
Thanks @fivewhy - was never aware that Jigsaw (I own it) does not have a backfill for historical data - and nor Ninja for their order flow analysis tools (I own Ninja as well).

Wasn’t sure what “MBO” stands for ? (Major block orders ? &#128526

I have also watched delta footprint for a long time - and cannot say I have found an “edge”.

Also mainly as a CL trader - these tools are less adequate - as it is a thin market.

Just my 2c 🍷

P.S. Fort Lauderdale you say? Love that city! Used to live in the area in 1996 - is Mango’s still around on Las Olas Blvd - or the “elbow room” on the corner next to the beach ? (Baja beach club used to be next to it I think )

Look, i might be wrong. If i am, then my apologies. The order book on jigssw is solid. Havent really used the heat map on jigsaw in a while. Maybe others can chime in w their knowledge.

Mbo = market by order, which is in contrast to market by price. Check out the link i posted.

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 JonnyBoy 
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phantomtrader View Post
I'm going to disagree here on Bookmap. I signed up about a week ago. This weekend I spent about 10 hours in replay. Traded the CL live this morning. I have to say that I find it quite interesting and useful once you jump over how the "bubbles" are working. I'm looking for support for my own algos which run on Ninja 7 charts along with Jigsaw. I don't run Ninja 8 so I don't see their version of a Bookmap-like indicator.

If you combine Jigsaw with Bookmap I think you're getting a lot of useful information which is very graphic. This afternoon I went over my trades today in replay. It definitely supports my entries along with Jigsaw; conversely I can see when I should wait a few ticks before entering.

I generally make videos of interesting days or examples I want to review. When I have time, I'll make a video of what I saw today. The ramp up at 6 AM PST was clear as a bell. Then another ramp after the NYSE open. The absorption on Jigsaw combined with the volume bubbles gives a lot of confidence if your algo/setup triggers which mine did.

I think it just takes time (like 10 hours this weekend and this afternoon in replay of my trades!) to put it all together. May not be for everyone, but so far, I like it.

Like all order flow tools. They are subjective. Jigsaw admit that themselves as per the attached. There are no setups with order flow.

Of course, if the organisation of the information with volume bubbles and all the jazz helps your trading, then all the power to you.


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 phantomtrader 
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JonnyBoy View Post
Like all order flow tools. They are subjective. Jigsaw admit that themselves as per the attached. There are no setups with order flow.

Of course, if the organisation of the information with volume bubbles and all the jazz helps your trading, then all the power to you.


"The use of order flow is subjective" But the numbers are real - orders that are executed are printed on the DOM. Those are real numbers. I think you missed the point.

As I said, I use Jigsaw and Bookmap as confirmation of the algos I am running on my charts. If the net numbers are moving up, it's a long. If they're moving down, it's a short. It's not rocket science. Bookmap is graphic. The market is visual. If you can't see what's going on in the market, you may as well be trading in a dark closet.
Tools are tools. Once again, it's not rocket science or black magic. Either you know how to trade using the tools or you don't.

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 JonnyBoy 
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phantomtrader View Post
"The use of order flow is subjective" But the numbers are real - orders that are executed are printed on the DOM. Those are real numbers. I think you missed the point.

As I said, I use Jigsaw and Bookmap as confirmation of the algos I am running on my charts. If the net numbers are moving up, it's a long. If they're moving down, it's a short. It's not rocket science. Bookmap is graphic. The market is visual. If you can't see what's going on in the market, you may as well be trading in a dark closet.
Tools are tools. Once again, it's not rocket science or black magic. Either you know how to trade using the tools or you don't.

There was a point? Can you quote me where I said the DOM numbers were not real?

What I did say was that Order Flow is subjective. I then went on to say that if it works for you, then all the power to you.

I extensively used and tested Jigsaw over many months. I found no statistically edge in using that software unless I wanted to trade like Peter and take a tick or two out of the market, which isn't enough for me.

Combined with my own algorithms I can see perhaps additional confidence being gained for the trade, but no setup was generated because of Order Flow itself, because there are not any.

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 phantomtrader 
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JonnyBoy View Post
There was a point? Can you quote me where I said the DOM numbers were not real?

What I did say was that Order Flow is subjective. I then went on to say that if it works for you, then all the power to you.

I extensively used and tested Jigsaw over many months. I found no statistically edge in using that software unless I wanted to trade like Peter and take a tick or two out of the market, which isn't enough for me.

Combined with my own algorithms I can see perhaps additional confidence being gained for the trade, but no setup was generated because of Order Flow itself, because there are not any.

And as I said, these are tools and like any tool, you use it to your benefit or you don't. John Grady seems to think there are setups in the DOM and he's been around for a long time. I prefer to use these tools to confirm my own programs that I run on charts. It works for me.

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  #138 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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Just as a sideline, Ninja has been failing every day this week. Data stream stopped cold. Bookmap continued to run. Not sure why as Bookmap is using Ninja data. Happened once this morning as well.

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 JonnyBoy 
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phantomtrader View Post
And as I said, these are tools and like any tool, you use it to your benefit or you don't. John Grady seems to think there are setups in the DOM and he's been around for a long time. I prefer to use these tools to confirm my own programs that I run on charts. It works for me.

As I said, if it works for you to confirm your own setups then that is great. Having used most Order Flow tools myself, I am firmly in the camp of this review.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/bookmap/

Did BookMap incorporate a few strategies into the platform that have some sort of statistical validity? I know that was requested by Emmett but the case went cold, unless they have something now?

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 phantomtrader 
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JonnyBoy View Post
As I said, if it works for you to confirm your own setups then that is great. Having used most Order Flow tools myself, I am firmly in the camp of this review.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/bookmap/

Did BookMap incorporate a few strategies into the platform that have some sort of statistical validity? I know that was requested by Emmett but the case went cold, unless they have something now?

I agree it's not about strategies or setups in the platform itself. If you find one, that's nice, but I haven't. I use it only as confirmation of my own automated signals. I attended their last webinar on Friday last. The person conducting the webinar was pointing out a lot of arbitrary potential trades which never happened - "it's up, it's down" etc. So I understand where's you're coming from. However, as a trading tool, I like it because it is graphic. But it's not a crystal ball or a fortune teller.

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 phantomtrader 
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CL is very choppy today - really tough trading. But I was able to use Bookmap simply by looking at the size of the "bubbles" which either confirmed or denied what I was intending to do. I think it shows tops/bottoms fairly well too on intraday charts. I bailed more losers than winners, but up on the day so far by about $700. So it's a utility, a tool. Has a few bugs - doesn't load immediately - today had to restart Ninja twice to get it running. Jigsaw is all numbers which suits me just fine. So putting the two together has been a plus for me.

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 JonnyBoy 
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phantomtrader View Post
I agree it's not about strategies or setups in the platform itself. If you find one, that's nice, but I haven't. I use it only as confirmation of my own automated signals. I attended their last webinar on Friday last. The person conducting the webinar was pointing out a lot of arbitrary potential trades which never happened - "it's up, it's down" etc. So I understand where's you're coming from. However, as a trading tool, I like it because it is graphic. But it's not a crystal ball or a fortune teller.

I am glad the visuals help your trading. I think it is great that you use it to confirm your own signals.

I would however be interested to see the times when everything is aligned and confirmed as you said, but the trade doesn't work out. Would you put this down to bad luck, a mis-read, one of those things etc. or just part of the statistics of trading because we don't profit on every trade.

My trades don't always work out even when the conditions are met and the setup is virtually identical to a previous trade. IMO that is just one of those things.

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 phantomtrader 
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JonnyBoy View Post
I am glad the visuals help your trading. I think it is great that you use it to confirm your own signals.

I would however be interested to see the times when everything is aligned and confirmed as you said, but the trade doesn't work out. Would you put this down to bad luck, a mis-read, one of those things etc. or just part of the statistics of trading because we don't profit on every trade.

My trades don't always work out even when the conditions are met and the setup is virtually identical to a previous trade. IMO that is just one of those things.

Absolutely. As I said in my last post, I bailed more losers than winners today even though I had some confirmation on the platforms. But I do tend to take some risky trades in the CL because it rotates "x" ticks on the bars so usually I can calculate where to get in and out. Today was tough trading. In retrospect, if you looked at my chart it's a work of art! But managing those trades was miserable. See attached.

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 tr8er 
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phantomtrader, are you using volume or CVD bubbles?

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 phantomtrader 
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tr8er View Post
phantomtrader, are you using volume or CVD bubbles?

Volume only. You can see the volume distribution on the bubbles. After a while, it becomes obvious whether the market is rotating or starting to be directional. It helps, but it's not magic. Takes time to interpret.

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 tr8er 
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great, I prefer the CVD bubbles, but each trader has different views

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 phantomtrader 
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tr8er View Post
great, I prefer the CVD bubbles, but each trader has different views

It took me a very long time to interpret Jigsaw - I just didn't get it. Then one day it clicked and it's indispensable now. Bookmap may turn out the same way. Time will tell. Right now it appears to be useful.

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 jokertrader 
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Can you mention which column of numbers is the most useful for you in Jigsaw...you can setup the same numbers in Bookmap as well


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 phantomtrader 
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jokertrader View Post
Can you mention which column of numbers is the most useful for you in Jigsaw...you can setup the same numbers in Bookmap as well


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See attached. I use the actual orders that are executed plus watch the net number in the far right column. Watching that number gives you an idea of how fast/slow the market is trading. The limit orders in the red/blue columns are practically useless because a lot of them are fake and change rapidly. I stopped looking at them completely.

The profile is also useful - the CL especially trades around the volume nodes. Once it breaks through one of those nodes, it's usually a slam dunk for a trade.

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 Tap In 
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Attached is today's action in NQ with Sierras version of a heatmap. Clearly seen are the algos hard at work bracketing price down and up.

My question is, what are they trying to accomplish? These are obviously not stop orders since they are set at limit. They seem to be orders that never get filled. What's the point?

Any ideas?

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 phantomtrader 
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Tap In View Post
Attached is today's action in NQ with Sierras version of a heatmap. Clearly seen are the algos hard at work bracketing price down and up.

My question is, what are they trying to accomplish? These are obviously not stop orders since they are set at limit. They seem to be orders that never get filled. What's the point?

Any ideas?

How do you know they're algos? How do you know they're not just scalpers running up and down the ladder? In the end, what difference does it make? Algos, hedge funds, banks etc. - it doesn't matter who's trading. The only thing that matters is that you recognize a pattern on the chart and trade it accordingly. Some people seem to think it matters that all these "algos" are trading. The fact is we do not know who is trading. It's just an opinion.
Companies like Virtu https://www.virtu.com/ provide liquidity to the market. They're in there all the time. But I don't think it should make a difference to anyone's trading style. Just deal with it.

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 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
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Hi all,

Good discussion! We plan to craft a response to several of the discussion points soon. In the meantime, a few points. Bookmap is simply a platform that very objectively displays and visualizes market data in a unique way. Bookmap is not an indicator, setup, nor trading strategy.

There are insights and advantages that can be drawn from the way the market data is visualized. For example, you may consider watching a recent Futures.IO webinar just a few weeks ago with professional trader Scott Pulcini. He is an order flow expert trading stocks and futures on both higher and lower time frames.


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 trendisyourfriend 
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Can anyone using BM post the heatmap of ES for today? Thanks

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trendisyourfriend View Post
Can anyone using BM post the heatmap of ES for today? Thanks

Hi,

Nice liquidity activity captured by the heatmap today in the ES. Especially note the larger player(s) heavily layering in on the bid around 3150-3153 at 2:00-2:30 pm ET. Strong aggressive buyer ensued and moved price to a new range. Some pretty nice examples of the context and relationship between price structure, liquidity, and aggressor volume throughout the entire day.

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 trendisyourfriend 
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Bookmap View Post
Hi,

Nice liquidity activity captured by the heatmap today in the ES. Especially note the larger player(s) heavily layering in on the bid around 3150-3153 at 2:00-2:30 pm ET. Strong aggressive buyer ensued and moved price to a new range. Some pretty nice examples of the context and relationship between price structure, liquidity, and aggressor volume throughout the entire day.

regards,

Bruce
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Thank you Bruce,

You did post a nice description but as it is easy at the end of the session, i was wondering... i took the pullback at the 24h VWAP (3159) and lost a few points there no big deal but what cues could i have read that the VWAP level would not hold if i were using your tool?

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Thank you Bruce,

You did post a nice description but as it is easy at the end of the session, i was wondering... i took the pullback at the 24h VWAP (3159) and lost a few points there no big deal but what cues could i have read that the VWAP level would not hold if i were using your tool?

Hi,

Your VWAP idea looks good, there is a pause or consolidation at 3160 around 9:45 ET before the next leg higher. The pullback in this case went deeper, even through the earlier Bid activity at 3154, to test the 3150 structure from the overnight session. There was high liquidity at 3150 resting there as well. This was the low of the pullback.

Look for the liquidity levels to hold and significant buyers to move price the opposite direction. This is where Bookmap can help, instead of simply taking trades off of a VWAP, Fib level, or whatever. The Layering by larger players at 3150-3153 around 2:00-2:30 pm ET is another really big help. Aggressive buyers come in and really move price away quickly. You may consider jumping in with a market buy order or look for a pullback to the top of the structure at 3160 as well.

We go over in detail this kind of order flow analysis in our Bookmap Advanced Education webinars everyday at 11-12 ET. It's free to the public on Fridays if you want a peek into the process. The education is not hindsight, we objectively analyze the current market volume and liquidity and give insight to future price movements.

Note it is not a trading room, it is about reading the order flow. For more education, including trading rooms, consider contacting several of our Bookmap educator partners.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap team

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 jz166 
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Bookmap 7.0 crashes on both of my computers, win10 with all the patches.
It's rushed for production apparently

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Bookmap 7.0 crashes on both of my computers, win10 with all the patches.
It's rushed for production apparently

Hi,

I'm sorry you're experiencing issues with your Bookmap 7.0 Beta version.
  1. Please send us an email to support@bookmap.com.
  2. Attached the pertinent log files associated with the crashes. You'll find the Logs located in the folder in C:\Bookmap\Logs.
  3. If we cannot assess the issue from the log files, we'd like to remote into your machine directly to find the issue and solve it.

Just a note, Bookmap 7.0 has been a solid product with minimal problems for our users. Nonetheless, it is still a Beta version. Look forward to your email and solving your issue.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

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 jz166 
NY, USA
 
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Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 951 since Sep 2009
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Bookmap View Post
Hi,

I'm sorry you're experiencing issues with your Bookmap 7.0 Beta version.
  1. Please send us an email to support@bookmap.com.
  2. Attached the pertinent log files associated with the crashes. You'll find the Logs located in the folder in C:\Bookmap\Logs.
  3. If we cannot assess the issue from the log files, we'd like to remote into your machine directly to find the issue and solve it.

Just a note, Bookmap 7.0 has been a solid product with minimal problems for our users. Nonetheless, it is still a Beta version. Look forward to your email and solving your issue.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

thanks Bruce. I just send log file now.

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 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
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jz166 View Post
thanks Bruce. I just send log file now.

Thanks jz166, the updated version of Bookmap that support recommended you install should solve your issues. We closed the ticket for now. If you continue to experience issues, simply let us know by replying again to the support ticket. Happy Holidays.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

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