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tradingthetape.com

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  #1 (permalink)
Hamburg; Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Has anyone any experience with tradingthetape.com?

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  #3 (permalink)
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LUPUS View Post
Has anyone any experience with tradingthetape.com?


I am not aware of them but i have a SIMPLE RULE that if a vendor does not provide background of the people

running the show, i just skip them.


Look around and every reputable vendor/service provide in any industry will have details about it's principles

like education, experience, expertise, professional designation etc.

I just watched their video showing their so called order flow in CL. I can tell you anyone looking at 10 ticks etc. for target, moving stop loss to B/E with 10 ticks stop loss and looking to make $1000 on 10 lot position

does not what the hell he/she is talking about.

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  #4 (permalink)
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LUPUS View Post
Has anyone any experience with tradingthetape.com?

What is your relationship with this company?

Mike

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  #5 (permalink)
Hamburg; Germany
 
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Big Mike View Post
What is your relationship with this company?

Mike

In no relationship. I could not find any info on them. So I asked...

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  #6 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, 6E
 
Posts: 15 since Sep 2011
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I have been trading for 5 years now. 3 years in equities, and that last 2 in futures (ES, 6E, 6J, TF)

Before I joined, I looked around for any reviews about TradingTheTape.com but couldn't really find any - other than the ones on his website. So I was very skeptical about joining.

I joined TradingTheTape.com about 3 weeks ago. I am very impressed by their methodology! They do not train you with indicators or rules! They teach you to UNDERSTAND the orderflow, which is priceless. They trade the ZB and ZN primarily (I only trade the ZB).

Included is a strategy software for NinjaTrader that performs many functions. One feature is it tracks the orderflow at each price point, and another order flow count for the inside market, which resets to zero when the inside market moves. The Strategy also helps to handle exits in ways that the ATM cannot. You could trade without his strategy software but the way it handles your stop loss ,which is brilliant, cannot be duplicated in the ATM.

I have been trading a live account for the last 3 trading days, using what I've learned from Scott, and have been profitable each day. I know 3 days isn't very long, but I've traded over 20 days in SIM under Replay mode and was also very profitable.

You also get a lot of personal attention from Scott. Scott actually Skype'd me before the first weekly webinar to see if I was going to attend! During his last webinar he mentioned that if we are not profitable by the 3rd week that he would do a one-on-one with you to see what you are doing wrong.

The last webinar he held this Saturday was worth the whole $750 I paid! - That's not a joke! (And I have attended A LOT OF WEBINARS in the past!!)

He has a feedback page: Feedback (I'm Mike M from Arizona)

Scott has a daily chat room which he is in for the first hour of trading. He gives you his view of the market and potential trades, and comments on our trades. The chatroom isn't really meant to give you trades, but rather for you to confirm that you understand HOW to trade.

I don't know what the success rate of his other members, but I would put them against Pristine.com's any day!

Overall, I am very impressed with Scott and his methodology. I also know that I won't be buying any more dvd's, books, indicators, mentorships, and software - I found my trading method - period. I only wish I found TradingTheTape years ago.

Good luck in your trading everyone!

I'll follow up again in a month or so.

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  #7 (permalink)
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 356 since May 2011
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I joined for a few months. They're very good. His methodology is solid and his software is very helpful. Once you learn to read the numbers, it's very doable. Like anything else, it takes time and practice.
In the end, I really preferred my own style of trading and the programs I've written - just a personal choice. But I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

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  #8 (permalink)
Kansas City, MO
 
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Anyone else?

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  #9 (permalink)
London + UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary Analytics
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Trading: Currently European and US equities
 
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Posts: 443 since Dec 2013
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There's not much info on the program other than the cost being published. Fair enough they may want to keep the materials under their hat. However I'm not a fan of trading rooms as a way to get into trading so I may be slightly biased. But if you want to learn tape or flow reading have a look around there are some more transparent alternatives about, not many books though! I suppose because it's more an art than a science, but an interesting skill to learn no doubt.

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  #10 (permalink)
Philadelphia
 
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I'd be interesting in hearing the experiences of actual members? Were they profitable with his proprietary order flow software? You can't expect he's going to teach you without you being a member.

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  #11 (permalink)
London + UK
 
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ewex View Post
I'd be interesting in hearing the experiences of actual members? Were they profitable with his proprietary order flow software? You can't expect he's going to teach you without you being a member.

I don't dispute that, but equally you'd not be asking this question if he put enough information / a flavour on the website :-) which may be a good or bad statement about the product. For example if I'm interested in studying a course I do need some literature to base that decision on not just that they teach the subject. I'd not know if it was structured/taught in a way that matched my needs.

The question I would also ask is if it helped members to independently trade. As that's the problem with most trading rooms, members may end up making money however they may not be able to follow the principal trader, nor get consistent direction, nor be able to learn to do it independently. etc

In and of itself learning order flow is useful as a skill, I also want to find out how members would rate how that process is structured. And what the software consists of? A dom? And t&s ? What is it?

Any members of this room?

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  #12 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, 6E
 
Posts: 15 since Sep 2011
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First of all I would like to say that I feel Scott training is vastly under-priced!!! - If someone can train you to trade profitably, in about 2 weeks, how much would you pay????? Scott has told us that if we are not profitable within 2 weeks he would do a one-on-one with us to see why - Where else have you EVER heard someone say anything like that! Has any ever heard of any other site, or software, or indicator vendor say that if you are not profitable in 2 weeks they would do a one-on-one with you to find out why??? It seems more like the opposite - If you ARE profitable within 2 weeks of using their system I'm sure they would like to find out HOW YOU ARE MAKING MONEY WITH THEIR SYSTEM!

I have now been trading this method successfully now for the last 4 weeks.

Right now, I still only trade the ZB and my success rate is about 6-7 out of 10, with 2-3 scratches out of 10 and 1 loser out of 10. The ZB is about $31 per tick, with about $3 commissions - So this success rate works out really well for me. There is another trader on his site that said his success rate is over 80% - Which I know is normally not believable with a trading system. But, this is not a trading "system", so actually I believe it!

TradingTheTape teaches its subscribers how to trade - period! The chat room is not a place where Scott tells us when to make our trades. Rather, it is where Scott gives us his market read, so that we can verify whether we understand what the order flow is telling us. I have not been in his chat room for the last 3 weeks or so because it just distracts my trading.

Since I have joined, Scott has put a 16 minute video on his webpage that is PRICELESS!!!! He tells all his subscribers that this video is the most valuable video on his whole website (out of 70+ videos). He tells us we cannot watch this too many time! I have put the video on my ipad, and my iphone so I could watch it whenever I have a free moment. This video teaches you almost everything you need to know to scalp the ZB. It covers about 8 minutes of market replay, which he pauses, from time to time, and tells you how to read the order flow at that moment. If he added just a little more information in that video, I think that it would easily be worth the $750 he charges for his site for 3 months.

I only scalp. I never could trade trends. I would almost always buy the top and sell the bottom of moves. I Thought that I would give Scott's method a try in trading trends. I made 2 trades. I actually bought the very top on trade #1, then sold the very bottom on trade #2. I will never try trading trends again!!!!! This is not to say that Scott's method to entering trends is bad - I just could never trade them. Actually, Scott's method makes a lot more sense then any other method I found - I just cannot do it.

So, if you are a scalper, Then I HIGHLY recommend tradingthetape! If you are a trend trader, this method sure makes more sense then any other way I heard of (e.g., if this MA moves above this MA, if the ADX is above this number, if this indicator...) - I just cannot verify how well it works for trend trading.

Good luck in your trades everyone,

Mike

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  #13 (permalink)
Legendary Capt. Johnny Jameson
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@chessbase....just curious...do you work for tradingthetape.com? and are you trading cash...or sim??

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  #14 (permalink)
Philadelphia
 
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chessbase View Post

So, if you are a scalper, Then I HIGHLY recommend tradingthetape! If you are a trend trader, this method sure makes more sense then any other way I heard of (e.g., if this MA moves above this MA, if the ADX is above this number, if this indicator...) - I just cannot verify how well it works for trend trading.

Are there videos and teachings to trade trends with this system? Are other members doing it? How many ticks do you usually scalp at a time?

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  #15 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Posts: 15 since Sep 2011
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Devil Man View Post
@chessbase....just curious...do you work for tradingthetape.com? and are you trading cash...or sim??

Hi, No I do not work for tradingthetape.com. I guess I do sound a little too enthusiastic about it - That's because it works, and what's taught makes SENSE!

I have been trading cash for the last month. I also practice about an hour a day in replay mode. My success rate I quoted earlier was from my cash account.

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  #16 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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ewex View Post
Are there videos and teachings to trade trends with this system? Are other members doing it? How many ticks do you usually scalp at a time?

Yes, he teaches how to trade trends. I don't really know how other members are doing, except for the member that said that his success rate was over 80%.

I scalp for 1 tick every time.

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  #17 (permalink)
Singapore
 
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chessbase View Post
Yes, he teaches how to trade trends. I don't really know how other members are doing, except for the member that said that his success rate was over 80%.

I scalp for 1 tick every time.

Why only 1 tick? Why not scalp for 2 or 3 ticks? Can his method be able to scalp 2,3 ticks in ZB? How different is his method and automatic stategy compared to just starring at Jigsaw DOM?
you scalp using his automatic or manual feature?
Why cant he offer one month membership instead of forcing people to sign up for 3 months at first?

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  #18 (permalink)
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 356 since May 2011
Thanks: 103 given, 613 received

Look, the method and the program are very good. Why don't you just give a it shot for a month? Taking the opinion of other people is really meaningless - you have to try it yourself and decide. There's one thing for sure - order flow and trading off the tape and DOM are key to being successful in this business. Few would disagree with that.

I don't know if Scott has ever done a webbie on Big Mike's. But you can always check out his videos on YouTube.

Again, for what he charges, it's worth the time, effort and money to get this kind of education.

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  #19 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
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justtradeit84 View Post
Why only 1 tick? Why not scalp for 2 or 3 ticks? Can his method be able to scalp 2,3 ticks in ZB? How different is his method and automatic stategy compared to just starring at Jigsaw DOM?
you scalp using his automatic or manual feature?
Why cant he offer one month membership instead of forcing people to sign up for 3 months at first?

You can only get 1 tick with The way that he teaches how to scalp . He only has an automatic feature for trend trading not scalping - Scott says that he doesn't use the automatic features himself anymore. He scalps, and trend trades using only the manual features.

I feel $750 is extremely under-priced! What would you pay to be taught to trade profitably?? I would be willing to pay a lot more than $750!

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  #20 (permalink)
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chessbase View Post
What would you pay to be taught to trade profitably?? I would be willing to pay a lot more than $750!

Your naivety is showing.

Please tone down the cheerleading for this vendor, your posts sound as if they were written by the owner of the site for marketing purposes. Marketing aimed at inexperienced traders.

You've posted your review. You think the guy is the best thing since sliced bread, we get it. Now please move on so others can post their reviews in the thread. And please try to come back in a year and confirm for us you are no longer using this method (90% certain -- has nothing to do with this specific vendor, it's just the way all "systems" from vendors work and the way inexperienced traders get caught up in the hype).

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  #21 (permalink)
Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
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@ chessbase: It's great that the method works for you.

My question to you: if you removed the software, could you still trade this method profitably ? Is the algorhythm disclosed or is it some kind of black box ?

Furthermore- how many setups do you get per trading session on average ? Scalping for 1 tick sounds a bit crazy to me lol.

I'm planning to delve deeper into the subject of order flow but will probably go with Jigsaw and No BS Trading first.

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  #22 (permalink)
Phoenix, Arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES, 6E
 
Posts: 15 since Sep 2011
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Big Mike View Post
Your naivety is showing.

Please tone down the cheerleading for this vendor, your posts sound as if they were written by the owner of the site for marketing purposes. Marketing aimed at inexperienced traders.

You've posted your review. You think the guy is the best thing since sliced bread, we get it. Now please move on so others can post their reviews in the thread. And please try to come back in a year and confirm for us you are no longer using this method (90% certain -- has nothing to do with this specific vendor, it's just the way all "systems" from vendors work and the way inexperienced traders get caught up in the hype).

Mike

My naivety is showing?? I would agree if this was some stupid holy grail indicator system, which most traders seem to be looking for. I don't consider reading Order Flow a "system". I agree that my posts sound over the top - But, that's how I am when I find something that I think will help others.

I have been a member of your site since late 2011, and I have never made a prior post sound like I was cheerleading for the vender for a reason - They didn't deserve it!

Like you've asked, I won't make any more post's in this thread.

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  #23 (permalink)
Portland
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation, MultiCharts
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Big Mike View Post
You've posted your review. You think the guy is the best thing since sliced bread, we get it. Now please move on so others can post their reviews in the thread. And please try to come back in a year and confirm for us you are no longer using this method (90% certain -- has nothing to do with this specific vendor, it's just the way all "systems" from vendors work and the way inexperienced traders get caught up in the hype).

Mike

If he has paper traded for 20 hours and live traded for multiple hours daily with real cash for a month, and is profitable, sounds like he may be on to something. I would have expected the typical scam training to have revealed itself by now and the account to have been blown up.


Thanks for the updates chessbase.

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  #24 (permalink)
Kansas City, MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 239 since Jan 2014
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Any other users care to chime in?

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  #25 (permalink)
Westborough, MA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TD
Trading: Futures
 
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TheSeeker View Post
@ chessbase: It's great that the method works for you.

My question to you: if you removed the software, could you still trade this method profitably ? Is the algorhythm disclosed or is it some kind of black box ?

Furthermore- how many setups do you get per trading session on average ? Scalping for 1 tick sounds a bit crazy to me lol.

I'm planning to delve deeper into the subject of order flow but will probably go with Jigsaw and No BS Trading first.

.....Stay away from No BS....It was indeed BS to me..... while....... Jigsaw ....Absolutely....Yes..... best product so far.
A big applause to Peter.....

...I really wanted to know more about tradingthetape.... anyone else here????

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  #26 (permalink)
GA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja trader
Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire
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I plan on giving them a go in the next week or two will report back my findings.

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  #27 (permalink)
Kansas City, MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 239 since Jan 2014
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Definitely let us know how it goes.

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  #28 (permalink)
Lake Kiowa, Texas USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ThinkOrSwim, NinjaTrader, Jigsaw
Broker: TDAmeritrade, E-Trade, FXCM, Oanda, AMP Futures, MB Trading, Dorman/NinjaTrader
Trading: Stocks, Forex, 6A, 6B, 6E, CL, ES, NQ, YM, ZB, ZN
 
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abrahamjose36 View Post
.....Stay away from No BS....It was indeed BS to me..... while....... Jigsaw ....Absolutely....Yes..... best product so far.
A big applause to Peter.....

...I really wanted to know more about tradingthetape.... anyone else here????

This is my first post on futures.io (formerly BMT), after being away for months I noticed this thread. I totally agree No BS trading was helpful with some information since John was a prop trader early on in his career. But even with a great platform Jigsaw Trading he still looses consistently at times that I've seen.

Regarding TTT the teaching is pretty sound, picked up some things on order flow, which was my objective, but the method he teaches evolves around his proprietary trading software, which is OK but glitchy. If you are successful at trading profitably, you are tied (chained), to the membership fees $750 Qtr. $3000 per year for LIFE. If that were the worst part I could live with that, but combine that with having to be subjected to the owners sour, arrogant, impatient, and sometimes abusive temperament it is a very high price to pay. You get the feeling he thinks you are hooked and dependent on him and his trading system...which by the way you are! I for one am going back to Jigsaw where Peter Davies has not only a great product but excellent customer service to boot.

Just my experiences for the past 2 1/2 months. I wish someone would have given me an honest review and heads up on TTT before I spent my money and even more importantly my trading time.

Regards

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  #29 (permalink)
Kansas City, MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES
 
Posts: 239 since Jan 2014
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@dentgent

Were you profitable using the methods?

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  #30 (permalink)
Russia, St.Petersburg
 
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I reviewed the videos and I can say that he personally would not use an automated strategy. There are many questions which the parameters are set, etc.

* If investing gets too difficult for a seventh grader to understand, the system is needlessly complex
* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
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  #31 (permalink)
Lake Kiowa, Texas USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ThinkOrSwim, NinjaTrader, Jigsaw
Broker: TDAmeritrade, E-Trade, FXCM, Oanda, AMP Futures, MB Trading, Dorman/NinjaTrader
Trading: Stocks, Forex, 6A, 6B, 6E, CL, ES, NQ, YM, ZB, ZN
 
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mojord View Post
@dentgent

Were you profitable using the methods?

MOJORD....I studied 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week for 2+ months and found out the program, software and training was mediocre at best. To answer your question specifically, Big Mike said it best, the above reviews were open to interpretation, to put it diplomatically. Good luck in your quest.

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  #32 (permalink)
San Diego, CA
 
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I purchased the training and, gulp, quickly decided it was an absolute waste of time. Among my list of negatives, this guy claims his method works the same in all markets. Maybe in theory. He said it can't be used in the ES, TF, CL, ZN, he tried. His training videos are using these markets. He said it can only be used in the bond market. Then it stopped working in the bond market and he said he was going to try it with the notes again. This was all in less than 2 weeks. I looked for a reason to stay, but couldn't find one.

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  #33 (permalink)
Lake Kiowa, Texas USA
 
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wilson619 View Post
I purchased the training and, gulp, quickly decided it was an absolute waste of time. Among my list of negatives, this guy claims his method works the same in all markets. Maybe in theory. He said it can't be used in the ES, TF, CL, ZN, he tried. His training videos are using these markets. He said it can only be used in the bond market. Then it stopped working in the bond market and he said he was going to try it with the notes again. This was all in less than 2 weeks. I looked for a reason to stay, but couldn't find one.


Wilson, thanks for the input. My experience exactly...I wasted hundreds of hours studying his training videos on ES, TF, CL, ZN and ZB to find out from him that it only worked on the ZB. Then there seemed to be more days on the ZB that you couldn't use it successfully there either.

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  #34 (permalink)
Russia, St.Petersburg
 
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haha
All markets operate under the same scenario, if someone wants to convince you that there is what is the difference, then ask him hard evidence

* If investing gets too difficult for a seventh grader to understand, the system is needlessly complex
* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
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  #35 (permalink)
london UK
 
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i have been a member for 6 months and i find the program excellent....but its not for everyone. it requires extensive education followed by a lot of hard work. i think 3 months to figure out if it works for you is a very good deal. most people will spend more than $750 on a seminar. at the end of the day you have to figure out what works best for you. it has made me a far better trader but i put in the hard work. Scott makes no excuses for the no shortcut method but he is available to anyone for 1-on-1 session for those that are having trouble. 90% of your time will be going through the material and practicing the concepts in market replay, 2 training sessions a week and about 10% actual trading. Scott is available after every live trading session for questions or concerns via Skype....the method required discipline and a commitment that a lot of people simply do not have. at the end of the day your success is on your back. put in what is expected of you and you will see results. this is with any system. it takes time and effort. trading is a business so be professional in what ever you decide to commit to. this system works for me. this is just my opinion. hope this helps.

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  #36 (permalink)
italy paris
 
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The video at the website is showing hidden orders in the chart. Where can get this vendor information about hidden orders. Is this Information part of the CME data feed or a calculation of the vendor? Where can i get this Information about hidden orders or icebergs when i dont want to buy a software for 1k bugs?

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  #37 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
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trvr View Post
i have been a member for 6 months and i find the program excellent....but its not for everyone. it requires extensive education followed by a lot of hard work. i think 3 months to figure out if it works for you is a very good deal. most people will spend more than $750 on a seminar. at the end of the day you have to figure out what works best for you. it has made me a far better trader but i put in the hard work. Scott makes no excuses for the no shortcut method but he is available to anyone for 1-on-1 session for those that are having trouble. 90% of your time will be going through the material and practicing the concepts in market replay, 2 training sessions a week and about 10% actual trading. Scott is available after every live trading session for questions or concerns via Skype....the method required discipline and a commitment that a lot of people simply do not have. at the end of the day your success is on your back. put in what is expected of you and you will see results. this is with any system. it takes time and effort. trading is a business so be professional in what ever you decide to commit to. this system works for me. this is just my opinion. hope this helps.

it works a lot better if you know where the major reverence points are. fat POC , areas of mimus development, ect. ect. turning it on in in a wilderness area ( it does not work so good ) he traders bonds so you need the 5 ,10,30, year domes up looking at the order flow on all. you have to be able to tell if hevy spreeding is going on, ect. ect. like most stuff in trading ..yes it is grate under the correction condations. when they change it blow up too.

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  #38 (permalink)
Canada
 
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I have never used this software but did watch a few of his videos and wanted to put some thoughts in on the subject.
I trade all the index futures as well as CL and NG and was only very occasionally trading ZB and ZN. ZN now is my main contract with the indexes second (I prefer YM personally).

ANY system that uses a 1 tick stop 1 tick PT will most likely have a 50/50 success rate (at best) and this is simply due to the stop being the minimum distance from the current price. markets fluctuate, they all do, and some contracts more than others. The reason I have gravitated towards the ZN is that I can trade it like I used to be able to trade ES, which is to say, free trading it without stops and scaling in and out, basically getting in with a 1 lot then adding and scaling out then scaling back in on pullbacks. If I was dead wrong I just take myself out of the 1 lot and lose very little.

All contracts trade differently, in that they will move in different tick sizes on average over say a 3 min or 5 min or whatever chart you prefer (use zig zag or price action swing or ATR to verify). That is assuming consistent market conditions and volatility. Add in periods of high volatility and I don't think there is any contract that you can trade with a 1 tick stop, reliably, day in and day out. The only way you'd be able to be successful is to try to hop on a move that has already started and hope for the best, but I still have my doubts really.

I high win rate, I have found, only comes with wider stops as over time, otherwise the natural chaos and volatility of the market will stop you out over and over, especially with a 1 tick stop.

Also, any vendor that has you hooked for life for an indicator and system is just that, hooking you. If its that good, sell it and don't make people purchase their own loyalty to your product (they are so invested that they are afraid to leave)

Just my 3 cents, cheers

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  #39 (permalink)
NYC, NY
 
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Japhro View Post
I have never used this software but did watch a few of his videos and wanted to put some thoughts in on the subject.
I trade all the index futures as well as CL and NG and was only very occasionally trading ZB and ZN. ZN now is my main contract with the indexes second (I prefer YM personally).

ANY system that uses a 1 tick stop 1 tick PT will most likely have a 50/50 success rate (at best) and this is simply due to the stop being the minimum distance from the current price. markets fluctuate, they all do, and some contracts more than others. The reason I have gravitated towards the ZN is that I can trade it like I used to be able to trade ES, which is to say, free trading it without stops and scaling in and out, basically getting in with a 1 lot then adding and scaling out then scaling back in on pullbacks. If I was dead wrong I just take myself out of the 1 lot and lose very little.

All contracts trade differently, in that they will move in different tick sizes on average over say a 3 min or 5 min or whatever chart you prefer (use zig zag or price action swing or ATR to verify). That is assuming consistent market conditions and volatility. Add in periods of high volatility and I don't think there is any contract that you can trade with a 1 tick stop, reliably, day in and day out. The only way you'd be able to be successful is to try to hop on a move that has already started and hope for the best, but I still have my doubts really.

I high win rate, I have found, only comes with wider stops as over time, otherwise the natural chaos and volatility of the market will stop you out over and over, especially with a 1 tick stop.

Also, any vendor that has you hooked for life for an indicator and system is just that, hooking you. If its that good, sell it and don't make people purchase their own loyalty to your product (they are so invested that they are afraid to leave)

Just my 3 cents, cheers

What do u do for market prep for zn?
To read order flow how are u doing it? What dom are u using?
How many trades a day do u take?
What is your average win/loss?
What times are best for zn?

Are u trying to avoid news movements or trade them

Trying to learn this method thanks

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  #40 (permalink)
Canada
 
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jokertrader View Post
What do u do for market prep for zn?
To read order flow how are u doing it? What dom are u using?
How many trades a day do u take?
What is your average win/loss?
What times are best for zn?

Are u trying to avoid news movements or trade them

Trying to learn this method thanks

I use Jigsaw and its fantastic but to be honest the imbalances and little quirks you can spot on say ES (or TF) are usually not as present or clear on ZN. You can trade ZN successfully with any dom that has volume profile on it imo.

I take 3-4 trades per day, unless I get a runner and I try to milk that one.

Are you asking my win/loss rate or amount? Win loss rate is about 65-70% but I take very small losses on it, maybe $100-150 and add contracts to the winners so I try to take 3-600 on those

ppl say the morning is best for trading the bonds but I find them fine all day. I never trade the open on anything, usually wait until the day plays its hand a bit and I'm looking to trade from 10am ET and onwards

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  #41 (permalink)
NYC, NY
 
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You mentioned 100 - 150/contract on ZN so say 6 - 10 tick stop loss?
and if you are saying 3 - 600 .. thats a lot of ticks but since u add to them u get it right?

So when u first enter? how many ticks are u looking for a profitable trade? IF
a) reversal
b) Continuation

and when u add - are u reducing your proifit targets? like initial 4 tickcs but with larger size.. it will be only 2 more ticks?

and what about any automated BE - do u move your stop?

thanks

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  #42 (permalink)
Canada
 
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jokertrader View Post
You mentioned 100 - 150/contract on ZN so say 6 - 10 tick stop loss?
and if you are saying 3 - 600 .. thats a lot of ticks but since u add to them u get it right?

So when u first enter? how many ticks are u looking for a profitable trade? IF
a) reversal
b) Continuation

and when u add - are u reducing your proifit targets? like initial 4 tickcs but with larger size.. it will be only 2 more ticks?

and what about any automated BE - do u move your stop?

thanks

I'll give the 1st one 4-6 ticks of wiggle room then it has to turn back or I get out, if it looks like it's holding I'll add 1 more, so I need 2-3 ticks to get b/e, then I'll add a stop on both just below where I'm at, when it gets to b/e I'll double and split the stop, and keep raising it and take what I can get. Usually I'll trade 4,6 or 8 this way, but start with 1 as a canary in the coal mine. make sense? The total risk is 5-6 ticks on the 1st one and maybe 1-2 ticks on the second, so in that $150 range. Profit targets are not set, I like to take some early which serves as padding for the rest of the trade, if you know what I mean. I watch ES and ZN charts side by side and usually enter ZN when ZN doesn't confirm the move in ES, and order flow flashes green for me

Sometimes, I just free trade them, in periods of lower volatility, which I much prefer because every stop is a liquidity target for someone else

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  #43 (permalink)
Canada
 
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I just wanted to add, that in his videos he is using 500 volume charts on ZN, maybe he uses something else as well but he doesnt show that. What I dont understand is, how you can glean anything from a 500 volume chart at ZN when each tick has 2-3000 volume in resting orders in it? This screenshot of a CTS DOM with ZN is in premarket! watch a T&S on ZN, it trades in bursts of 600 lots maybe 10-20 at a time when it makes a move. How can you see whats coming on a 500 volume chart when each trade is more than that, very often? I don't get it


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  #44 (permalink)
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avirex56 View Post
The video at the website is showing hidden orders in the chart. Where can get this vendor information about hidden orders. Is this Information part of the CME data feed or a calculation of the vendor? Where can i get this Information about hidden orders or icebergs when i dont want to buy a software for 1k bugs?

I've yet to watch the video but I think by 'hidden orders' you actually mean iceberg orders.

You don't need expensive software to spot an iceberg order. Any trading platform with a decent Depth of Market visualization can show that. Then it's a matter of skill/screen time to be able to spot that.

Hope it helps.

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  #45 (permalink)
Vancouver, Canada
 
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I am interested in his software, but have sent 3 emails already and no response what so ever. There is no phone number on his site, which is fine but at least answer emails.

I have read all of the reviews on this thread, and it seems to me that he is not that interested in doing any new business, and maybe he already has a bunch of clients who are paying the $250 per month on a regular basis, and does not want anymore.

Unless he is on holidays this week and runs a one man show, which might be a good excuse, I am not very impressed with the lack of response to my emails, so not a very good start.

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  #46 (permalink)
Portland, OR
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I had a three month membership at the end of 2014 for tradingthetape.com with Scott something or other who is the owner.

I didn't renew after my three months were up. I wasn't satisfied with my experience which was this:

This appealed to me due to the order flow tape automation for entering and exiting orders. The buttons and integration are nice but ultimately I didn't see a statistical edge using his software nor its methods. I entered the room every day where the other traders were actively trading, mostly sim. I also attended virtually every training of any kind he had.

During the time I was there he was constantly "tweaking" his software and methods but I could never get them into a system that was predictable to any degree at all. He claims to limit to one tick of risk on the ZN but my experience was that it was theoretical as I would consistently get stopped out immediately due to one tick of risk as a one tick stop, which of course makes sense. We were constantly implementing something new every couple of weeks. I see now he is mostly demo for ZB. I recall there was usually only around 5-6 or maybe 10 people max ever in the live trading sessions which weren't designed to be trade calls but rather we were group learning more than anything.

I couldn't make money using his system and the $750 was sunk costs.

e

Wait... Did you hear that
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  #47 (permalink)
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chessbase View Post
First of all I would like to say that I feel Scott training is vastly under-priced!!! - If someone can train you to trade profitably, in about 2 weeks, how much would you pay????? Scott has told us that if we are not profitable within 2 weeks he would do a one-on-one with us to see why - Where else have you EVER heard someone say anything like that! Has any ever heard of any other site, or software, or indicator vendor say that if you are not profitable in 2 weeks they would do a one-on-one with you to find out why??? It seems more like the opposite - If you ARE profitable within 2 weeks of using their system I'm sure they would like to find out HOW YOU ARE MAKING MONEY WITH THEIR SYSTEM!

I have now been trading this method successfully now for the last 4 weeks.

Right now, I still only trade the ZB and my success rate is about 6-7 out of 10, with 2-3 scratches out of 10 and 1 loser out of 10. The ZB is about $31 per tick, with about $3 commissions - So this success rate works out really well for me. There is another trader on his site that said his success rate is over 80% - Which I know is normally not believable with a trading system. But, this is not a trading "system", so actually I believe it!

TradingTheTape teaches its subscribers how to trade - period! The chat room is not a place where Scott tells us when to make our trades. Rather, it is where Scott gives us his market read, so that we can verify whether we understand what the order flow is telling us. I have not been in his chat room for the last 3 weeks or so because it just distracts my trading.

Since I have joined, Scott has put a 16 minute video on his webpage that is PRICELESS!!!! He tells all his subscribers that this video is the most valuable video on his whole website (out of 70+ videos). He tells us we cannot watch this too many time! I have put the video on my ipad, and my iphone so I could watch it whenever I have a free moment. This video teaches you almost everything you need to know to scalp the ZB. It covers about 8 minutes of market replay, which he pauses, from time to time, and tells you how to read the order flow at that moment. If he added just a little more information in that video, I think that it would easily be worth the $750 he charges for his site for 3 months.

I only scalp. I never could trade trends. I would almost always buy the top and sell the bottom of moves. I Thought that I would give Scott's method a try in trading trends. I made 2 trades. I actually bought the very top on trade #1, then sold the very bottom on trade #2. I will never try trading trends again!!!!! This is not to say that Scott's method to entering trends is bad - I just could never trade them. Actually, Scott's method makes a lot more sense then any other method I found - I just cannot do it.

So, if you are a scalper, Then I HIGHLY recommend tradingthetape! If you are a trend trader, this method sure makes more sense then any other way I heard of (e.g., if this MA moves above this MA, if the ADX is above this number, if this indicator...) - I just cannot verify how well it works for trend trading.

Good luck in your trades everyone,

Mike


everetts View Post
I had a three month membership at the end of 2014 for tradingthetape.com with Scott something or other who is the owner.

I didn't renew after my three months were up. I wasn't satisfied with my experience which was this:

This appealed to me due to the order flow tape automation for entering and exiting orders. The buttons and integration are nice but ultimately I didn't see a statistical edge using his software nor its methods. I entered the room every day where the other traders were actively trading, mostly sim. I also attended virtually every training of any kind he had.

During the time I was there he was constantly "tweaking" his software and methods but I could never get them into a system that was predictable to any degree at all. He claims to limit to one tick of risk on the ZN but my experience was that it was theoretical as I would consistently get stopped out immediately due to one tick of risk as a one tick stop, which of course makes sense. We were constantly implementing something new every couple of weeks. I see now he is mostly demo for ZB. I recall there was usually only around 5-6 or maybe 10 people max ever in the live trading sessions which weren't designed to be trade calls but rather we were group learning more than anything.

I couldn't make money using his system and the $750 was sunk costs.

e

I've just quoted two experiences which appear to be quite at the extreme opposites with this vendor.

Chessbase's experience appears to be very enthusiastic, while everetts sounds like he/she was disappointed.

Were both participants always on the SIM? Was chessbase's experience simply lucky? Was everetts' simply unlucky? Was the vendor going through a period of high change?

It would be interesting to flesh out the differences.

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  #48 (permalink)
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Trading The Tape Review - Trading Schools.Org

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  #49 (permalink)
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Thanks Forexoil.

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  #50 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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xplorer View Post
I've just quoted two experiences which appear to be quite at the extreme opposites with this vendor.

Chessbase's experience appears to be very enthusiastic, while everetts sounds like he/she was disappointed.

Were both participants always on the SIM? Was chessbase's experience simply lucky? Was everetts' simply unlucky? Was the vendor going through a period of high change?

It would be interesting to flesh out the differences.

Chessbase hasn't posted anything to this forum in 2 years. A massive amount of grandstanding of this vendor in a short space of time and then radio silence after Big Mike's intervention. Make of that what you will.

Upon reading Emmett Moore's review, the vendor seems like a shill. As soon as he is challenged for proof of trading performance, he gets all defensive. He can't even prove he has a trading account.

Caution people.

--------------------------------------------------------
- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
--------------------------------------------------------
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  #51 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
Chessbase hasn't posted anything to this forum in 2 years. A massive amount of grandstanding of this vendor in a short space of time and then radio silence after Big Mike's intervention. Make of that what you will.

Upon reading Emmett Moore's review, the vendor seems like a shill. As soon as he is challenged for proof of trading performance, he gets all defensive. He can't even prove he has a trading account.

Caution people.

Sure, I appreciated that JonnyBoy - it's not that I was ever remotely considering it - I was just curious about the two opposing views.

As for Emmet Moore, I tend to take those reviews with a pinch of salt but it's always useful material.

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  #52 (permalink)
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I've looked at this vendor again recently and their software primarily reflects T&S activity in various forms on the chart. With trade management features and additional materials, guidance etc. Essentially as any form of tape reading out there it takes a lot of individual effort to garner value from. For me that's a likely reason for the variance in feedback from those who've dealt with them.

What initially stands out to me is their website claims that dom trading, technical trading, and tape trading are inherently flawed (paraphrased but that's the gist), when from what I've seen the software and technique employs at least two of those approaches. So I paused for thought at reading that, that's probably just a bit of marketing to convince newbies to buy it but surely doesn't make sense to anyone that understands what they're selling here. However, that aside there are some decent tidbits on their website for free regarding some basics that would be useful to new traders to read that I've not seen many other places for new traders. Always good to check out vendors even if you don't end up using them I think.

Regarding the product offering I'm sure there's some value in the training techniques offered that could be carried over to non-treasury products (as others here have queried), as I'm 100% certain there are plenty of successful tape traders in those markets. With this being a tape based tool for me making it work is about time at the terminal, that goes for whatever tape tool you use.

So bottom line I think what is taught likely has value but I think the software is trying to reinvent the wheel, and I'd not buy this tool myself as in terms of cost I don't think the product nor training would justify a recurring fee and as others have noted there are alternatives. Me I'd prefer a good old fashioned ladder any day.

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  #53 (permalink)
London, UK
 
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sands View Post
I've looked at this vendor again recently and their software primarily reflects T&S activity in various forms on the chart. With trade management features and additional materials, guidance etc. Essentially as any form of tape reading out there it takes a lot of individual effort to garner value from. For me that's a likely reason for the variance in feedback from those who've dealt with them.

What initially stands out to me is their website claims that dom trading, technical trading, and tape trading are inherently flawed (paraphrased but that's the gist), when from what I've seen the software and technique employs at least two of those approaches. So I paused for thought at reading that, that's probably just a bit of marketing to convince newbies to buy it but surely doesn't make sense to anyone that understands what they're selling here. However, that aside there are some decent tidbits on their website for free regarding some basics that would be useful to new traders to read that I've not seen many other places for new traders. Always good to check out vendors even if you don't end up using them I think.

Regarding the product offering I'm sure there's some value in the training techniques offered that could be carried over to non-treasury products (as others here have queried), as I'm 100% certain there are plenty of successful tape traders in those markets. With this being a tape based tool for me making it work is about time at the terminal, that goes for whatever tape tool you use.

So bottom line I think what is taught likely has value but I think the software is trying to reinvent the wheel, and I'd not buy this tool myself as in terms of cost I don't think the product nor training would justify a recurring fee and as others have noted there are alternatives. Me I'd prefer a good old fashioned ladder any day.


Fully agree mate. Trading is like loosing weight: There is no shortcut!

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  #54 (permalink)
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I know this is an older thread, but thought I would provide my input with this vendor. I signed up for a three month round back in fall 2014. Was interested in learning about orderflow. His sales and marketing videos had appeal. First off, his software only runs on Ninjatrader. You also have to let him gain control of your computer in order for him to install his proprietary code. After that, you absorb all the information and training he has on his site. I must say, he has put a fair amount of time into this. What I found strange is that he kept referencing a certain day several months back as the best example of how his software could show when to take a trade. It made me think that if that was the only example in the last several months, then perhaps it was an anomaly. He reiterates that it is traded volume and how price reacts to that is what moves the market. He states that traded volume not only precedes price action, it determines it. These are all true and very accurate statements. However, I believe software should enhance your ability to spot an edge, not create it. You can see the same price action and how it reacts to traded volume on the Jigsaw DOM or other similar products. There is no reason to get locked into a vendor that requires you to pay him monthly in order for his one indicator to function on your software.

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  #55 (permalink)
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Alaskajeff View Post
You also have to let him gain control of your computer in order for him to install his proprietary code.

Thanks Jeff, useful review. Also, there should be no reason why one lets anyone gain control of your machine unless you need technical support.

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