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simon jousef's GTR trading room
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simon jousef's GTR trading room

  #51 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
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Greg4hvn View Post
I understand what you are saying, but...

The solution you're looking for isn't in a trading room, indicator, trading system, book, seminar, or webinar. There are no shortcuts to trading. It's hard work... really hard work. It takes a retarded level of determination, perseverance, and capital that most people don't have.

Unfortunately, most people don't want to hear that it may take them years of losing and struggling before they see even a glimmer of profit. The majority of these trading rooms and salesmen feed off that desperate desire to find a faster way. If there was a shortcut, don't you think everyone would be doing it?

In trading, shortcuts lead to the longest path possible.
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  #52 (permalink)
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Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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HectorPriamedes View Post
AND




I tried to quote two people above, hope this works.

I should first declare that I have NOT attended this trading room at all. So what I am about to say is my own theory as to what is going on. I read this thread in its entirety and I want to comment on something that novice traders may not have pieced together which is hazardous to miss.

The two members above both comment on how the announcer Simon shouts his trades at the last moment. Both members above say they were not able to replicate Simon's fills -one member says he could not replicate the results even on a sim account. <--- This is a dead giveaway, as most sims will give you unrealistically good fills.

The reason Simon calls his trades late or at the last minute, is because Simon is Front Running his own clients. He wants to enter in the market before everyone else, so he has the best fill. While getting a good fill by itself is not evil, it's what happens afterward that is both sinister and illegal:

Simon first gets his own fill,
Simon shouts to all the other members "Buy bid! Buy bid!"
The (hundreds?) of members in the room all rush in at once with their bid orders of 3+ contracts each,
The bid is suddenly bombarded with 1000+ contracts, possibly much much more.
It's even probable that at the same moment, some members of the room panic and hit the offer with aggressive limits and market orders,
The market reacts, and jolts up a few ticks, possible much more depending on liquidity.
As a result of this jolt, Simon gets filled on his first profit target of 5 ticks and exits 2/3rds of his position.
Simon has booked real profits and has stellar trading results to post for the trading room's official track record, even if his last contract stops out at break even.
Everyone else has been left in the dust with no fill, or a bad fill that dooms them to take a loss on the trade. Not to mention the stress involved with constantly having results so wildly different than their trade room leader. Their psychology alone at this juncture dooms their trading.

This is why the two members who posted here said they were both unable to replicate Simon's results. Because it is highly likely that Simon is front running. Being that Simon and the other instructors in this room are self proclaimed order flow experts, they will have a tough time convincing a jury that they did not know what they were doing at the time they were doing it. Order flow was their methodology and they used it to exploit their own clients.

In fact, I wonder how often Simon's own students who have sent a market order trying to enter in, have unknowingly been filled when they bought Simon's own sell to close limit orders?

This is really sinister. It's not enough these guys are charging their students thousands of dollars for trading results they know the students can't replicate, but they even front-run their own children to make some extra money on the side. Just wow...

If what I have described is what is actually occurring in that trading room, then Simon (and others) are successfully using exploiting their own clients to front run orders, forcing the market where they want it to go briefly, so they can exit to their benefit, and to their students' detriment. This is illegal. Now if ANY person is running a popular trading room this is probably very easy to do. So guys, why not learn to trade independent of trading rooms altogether?

Front Running financial definition of Front Running


Excellant Analysis Hector.. Many Thanks for your input. I was wondering why I was making no great headway after parting with my dollar... :-(

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  #53 (permalink)
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You're welcome



traderx4 View Post
Excellant Analysis Hector.. Many Thanks for your input. I was wondering why I was making no great headway after parting with my dollar... :-(


You're very welcome. Glad I could help. Sorry to hear you lost some money in all this.

Keep your head up, there IS money to be made the market. In my opinion it is easier without the smoke and mirrors of trading rooms. To leave them altogether and instead read these forums extensively, and test/apply what you learn on your own. I think that's way more rewarding than trading rooms.

As BigMike always says, the Holy Grail to trading is within you!

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  #54 (permalink)
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Analyzing charts and calling out area's isn't very difficult after spending many day's, months, years in front of your screens.
I believe most people could get a good idea of where the markets are going just by using basic support and resistance lines and plenty of time spent studying charts.

But, the very very difficult bit is profiting from the area's that you 'Think' the market might react to.
Most times my area's get hit and I could give you area's where the CL, 6E get hit all day long but that wont make me money unless I have a solid plan, money management and a sound mind for trading.

I know great analysts that cant make money and great traders that are not fantastic analysts but know how to make money.

Hope this helps and good luck.


Greg4hvn View Post
I understand what you are saying, but they are making some good calls, somehow their system seems to work pretty well for them, even if I don't understand why their system works, which I agree with you, the price magnets don't make sense to me either. I was able to follow some of the trades today, but some calls are too fast to catch. I don't believe front running is really how they are succeeding, it would seem you need more than that to really move the markets, but I am not an expert on this. They are the most consistent trading room I have seen that uses market profile, I wish I could find a cheaper and more understandable alternative, have not found that yet. Maybe someone has a better suggestion?


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  #55 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
miami florida
 
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Big Mike View Post
Because I am the administrator of the site, and I see the patterns and behaviors of vendors that disguise or lie about their identity in order to promote their products all the time.

Your posts read like advertisements, including costs and all the "upside" of how much money is being made, with no discussion of the risk or negative views on this vendor.

You also continue to post here even after you've already made your "review", responding to people as if you were the owner of the trading room.

It is all highly suspicious and of course if true you are in violation of our forum rules and will be banned permanently.

Mike

@JJ, do yourself a favor and stop posting about the vendor. We all know BM's MO and this is the precursor to him looking for any reason to associate you directly with the vendor to ban you (you may not care, but that's another story). There is a recurring pattern here at BM. Had you not been here 3 years, you'd more than likely be banned already.

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  #56 (permalink)
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toulouse-lautrec View Post
I joined them twice for the free session they offer on a weekly basis.
There were two chaps in the room (Bob and Sandy?) discussing trades and some other topics. Almost like a radio show ... The older guy almost sounds like Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys ....

I only listened for 1 -2 hrs each session and was not able to always pay full attention, so take my words with a grain of salt.

From what i saw / heard they were not trading exactly in the same way. One of them basically used a trendline / box breakout method. The other one seemed to position himselves with limit orders around key profile levels / SR levels.
The trendline guy showed his charts and he was watching three different markets all the time.

They were transparent and upfront about which trades they took, on some occasions i saw the chart trader.
As far as i could tell they were making money (sim or live, i don't know).
The trades i saw were apparently executed with 3 contracts, taking off 2 contracts at just a few ticks (3 ticks i think i saw).

What makes me very cautious is when people discuss continuously about how much money you can make theoretically. This for me is always a red flag. It usually starts with some small number, which is supposed to make it sound achievable ("making $200/day should be easy....") and then all of a sudden numbers become bigger and bigger. Then they said if you'd make $200/day consistently any hedge fund would pay you $10M/year to trade for them... yeah, right!

There was a lot of boasting about how they can explain every tick in the market at any time and how they could even teach a monkey how to trade. They also kept mentioning how good Simon, their partner (not present) is, how he would identify turning points to the tick and take huge runners... (how lucky they are they have him and he is not actually trading for one of these hedge funds making millions!)

In summary, from what i saw (and again i cant say i kept watching very closely) it seemed to me that their method revolves around scraping a few ticks off at high probability inflection levels, immediately taking 2/3rds off to reduce risk and hoping to catch the occasional runner.
If it work for them, that's fine, there's worse out there. For me personally this kind of risk management is problematic.
Some may be able to pick up themselves how to trade like that, some may want to pay someone for the service to be taught.

The risk in this style of MM lies in the initial stop. Is it larger (and how much so) than the first PT that peels of 2/3 of the position and then the last held contract is moved to a free trade? Mathematically speaking, all in, all out is a more profitable systems than getting "risk free" after closing 2/3 of your position. How often does that runner materialize; probably not enough and what you discover is lots of scratched trades, some big upside down losers, and lots of commissions.

I'm taking a free trial in a room now where the moderator risks 8 ES ticks to make 3 on 2/3 position and then moves his STP to BE (not entry). When it works out, the "risk free" trades feels good, but when the first trade or two is a loser, you're going to be underwater for the rest of the day. It's a negative expectancy MM style that requires a win rate of 75%+ to make any sense.


Last edited by GuyMM; August 17th, 2015 at 10:50 PM.
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  #57 (permalink)
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This is a blatant Lie from Jerry, when you are in the trials Simon will say earn as you learn but when you sign up as a member he will say 'don't trade a live account until you can Trade of your own back.



jerryjerry View Post
estrade haved you been in the room .he has a free room every truday so that you can see first hand what is going on plus all you have to do is go to the global trade room and view their track record for the last six months .every trade is posted that was given . simon trades with more than 3 contracts most of the time but on the results page he only counts 3 contracts you dont have to unstand what is going on all you haved to do is follow the trades and you will make money that is all that counts .it is a trading room not a learning room


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  #58 (permalink)
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Fxfutures1976 View Post
This is a blatant Lie from Jerry, when you are in the trials Simon will say earn as you learn but when you sign up as a member he will say 'don't trade a live account until you can Trade of your own back.

dont call me a lair if you are not a member of the room and took some of the trades yourself

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  #59 (permalink)
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If you read my previous posts you will see that I was a member.
I stand by everything that I have said.





jerryjerry View Post
dont call me a lair if you are not a member of the room and took some of the trades yourself


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  #60 (permalink)
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Alesia E.U.
 
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Hi

i've attended some trial version:
I didn't have difficult to follow their entry ,i've to admit a lot of call were made in advance
yes the chat is noisy and the voices of the three traders frequently overlap , you have to be concentrate.
i heard them speaking about homemade-levels , blue thick lines on charts , it's something similar if not equal i've heard by NOFT (google it) but so far i'm not able to fully understand it.
it seems that they are searching of LVN among different time frame that are at the same levels.
i don't understand if these levels are taken from VP with a fixed length or from variable length , the latter it's too subjective ,it rely on own analysis ,can vary depending on the length of timeframe and quality of data etc.
i think can't be teach.
imho ,price subscription for 1 year it's too high .

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