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What Training courses you have please give me your review
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What Training courses you have please give me your review

  #51 (permalink)
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Sasha View Post
You are getting there, i can feel it, but let me help you just a bit more:
I do not reject neither Brett's bloody approach nor NLP/meditation. In fact I quit smoking in one day using NLP(that is after more than 20 years of habit) and never suffered even a second. And never paid a penny for it.
I am sure that Brett's method works and I consider him to be the best at the trade, but there are other less dramatic ways.
My "beef' with Kam is mostly because he is a lier, because he claims to be what he is not, because he charges money from desperate people for the services he can not possibly provide and that is fraud.
Now about your criteria for a decent trading teacher: you missed one important -- honesty! What you did not miss is all good, but ask yourself is there an acting trading room that does not meet easily all of these 3 qualities you mentioned? I can name you a few hundred just from memory... Woodie's club is clearly one of them, it is free and is definitely more trustworthy.
What is the purpose of being in the room? To pick up and exploit the signals without understanding how are they generated? Or to learn how to generate the signals and manage a trade? What is really worth paying for?
You mentioned FT71, he is good. there is Falcrum Trader, Discovery Group and many many other real traders, so look around

Shasha:

I have not any of his older videos as yet, but in the trading room, the focus is entirely on explaining how the signals are being generated. He talks in detail about what to look for in order flow to have confidence in the reversal (pre-trade action, post-trade action, follow through etc.), apart from of course the regions where MP suggests we are likely to see responsive activity.

They had an after-market seminar today (on the importance of having a business plan for your trading business) and there Brian did seem to mention that they are focusing primarily on MP based trades on a few set of instruments, and rarely do they talk about scalping any more. Kam has mentioned short term scalping software like FuturesScalper but that seems to be something on the side and not something they discuss. He also refers to CTI data once in a while; I think Kam gets it for the YM, and he tries to keep an eye on what the commercials are doing.

Perhaps they have adapted to the feedback they have received and instead of being the jack of all, are trying to focus on what they can understand and can teach better.

I have not been too many trading rooms so I do not have a lot of experience to fall back upon; however from the little I have seen, these guys are providing a structural framework for traders to develop. Though I have learnt a lot from FT71 etc., I do feel that purely from a technical basis, Kam has helped me refine the methodology into something which I am gradually feeling more confident in executing.

That is why I find your views a bit perplexing.

 
  #52 (permalink)
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aviat72 View Post
Perhaps they have adapted to the feedback they have received and instead of being the jack of all, are trying to focus on what they can understand and can teach better.

........

That is why I find your views a bit perplexing.

You are so perplexed simply because as some other people you don't mind being lied to. I love watching news and have noticed that in some countries apparently people are conditioned in a way that allows them to replace facts with believes, to have many contradicting "truths" at once, and generally accept any lie if it is convenient to them.
I'll give you a simple logical chain that should say all that is necessary to anyone who values common sense, thou I know that nothing in the world will convince you. I'll do that not for your sake but for the sake of others:
1. You seem to agree that L2ST, despite their claims, are incompetent in parts of what they used to teach people-- e.g. in NLP and scalping DOM (you stated that after the feedback they have reduced the spectrum of their educational program to "what they can understand").
2. L2ST used to sell for relatively big money courses on the subjects that by your own admission they know little about and certainly can not educate others. (Now, most people would stop right here and forget about paying a dime to such teachers, but lets go one more step)
3. What is left in their education that you find to be still of value will require paying for 6 months in a row without really being able to verify this education is worth anything. If you, in violation of L2ST recommendations, start to trade sooner than 6 months and lose all money -- you can not blame them, can you? Could they finish your "education" sooner? Yes, but it is less profitable for 2 reasons one is obvious and another is psychological - it is hard to accept that you were a sucker after wasting half a year of your life and a small fortune on B.S.. A lot of people will double down in such circumstances and will pay for "advanced" or "one-on-one" lessons. Sounds familiar?

So what do we have-- teachers that do not mind to defraud you by selling NLP hypnosis and force you to attend for six months before you are able to begin evaluating their approach.

You said that you keep trading despite their strong suggestion, so let me ask you again : please post your statement here so that we could see that you are truly making progress. It will not harm you in any way, so why do you keep avoiding this simple request.

P.S. I expected that after watching provided by me L2ST webinars and listening to their very funny meditation you would honestly describe those here for other users sake. But since it is unlikely to happen, I am offering everyone interested to watch and judge for themselves. Just PM me and I'll supply you with all of L2ST production

 
  #53 (permalink)
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Sasha View Post
Y
1. You seem to agree that L2ST, despite their claims, are incompetent in parts of what they used to teach people-- e.g. in NLP and scalping DOM (you stated that after the feedback they have reduced the spectrum of their educational program to "what they can understand").

You are putting words in my mouth. I have no basis of judging how good or bad they are in NLP and DOM Scalping. All I said was that they are good at what they have focussed during the time I spent with them.



Quoting 

2. L2ST used to sell for relatively big money courses on the subjects that by your own admission they know little about and certainly can not educate others. (Now, most people would stop right here and forget about paying a dime to such teachers, but lets go one more step)

Again you are attributing words to me which I never said.


Quoting 

3. What is left in their education that you find to be still of value will require paying for 6 months in a row without really being able to verify this education is worth anything. If you, in violation of L2ST recommendations, start to trade sooner than 6 months and lose all money -- you can not blame them, can you? Could they finish your "education" sooner? Yes, but it is less profitable for 2 reasons one is obvious and another is psychological - it is hard to accept that you were a sucker after wasting half a year of your life and a small fortune on B.S.. A lot of people will double down in such circumstances and will pay for "advanced" or "one-on-one" lessons. Sounds familiar?

The six month waiting learning period suggestion, is for people who have already committed to the one year mentor-ship program. Again the time-period is a bit of an exaggeration; his point is that you HAVE to be confident in the setups you are going to take, and how you are going to manage them, before you start risking real money. Otherwise your growth as a trader may suffer. He feels that you are likely to be more successful if you have mastered the setups and trade management to a point where you do not hesitate to pull the trigger and do not panic at the first counter trend move.



Quoting 
So what do we have-- teachers that do not mind to defraud you by selling NLP hypnosis and force you to attend for six months before you are able to begin evaluating their approach.

You said that you keep trading despite their strong suggestion, so let me ask you again : please post your statement here so that we could see that you are truly making progress. It will not harm you in any way, so why do you keep avoiding this simple request.

What is your fascination with my PnL statement? FWIW, I have YET to take a SINGLE setup live. You might ask why? I am trying to understand his system and trade management better. Learning to fish as much as I can.

Since I have been in the room, his worst trade was one in which he "ONLY" reached his first profit target and scratched the rest for a few ticks. I would have no reason to complain PnL if I had blindly followed him.


Quoting 
P.S. I expected that after watching provided by me L2ST webinars and listening to their very funny meditation you would honestly describe those here for other users sake. But since it is unlikely to happen, I am offering everyone interested to watch and judge for themselves. Just PM me and I'll supply you with all of L2ST production


I haven't had the time to watch them so far. Busy with a bunch of things including taxes (finally done). However, everyone has a different perspective and background. Some might find his stuff elementary; others might find it very useful.

I briefly perused the slides and felt that the information contained there would be useful to a beginning to an intermediate trader. Of course if you have a lot of seat time, you would have been exposed to them already. However putting it all together in a structured manner does take some effort.

What I am liking about the room, especially Kam is the way he prepares, executes and manages trade. His approach to MP based trading is very well structured and captures the psychological challenges of trade management very well.

You truly must be a remarkable trader to find his stuff as rubbish. They have been in business for seven-eight years now; they must be doing something right. Everyone I have talked to has said that they learnt at least a few useful tricks from him; no one is so critical of him like you are.

The link below describes how he wants to run the room. He does try to keep a very positive focussed environment and interacts actively. I have yet to pose a question which has not been addressed.
http://www.l2st.co.uk/L2ST_LTR_ServiceOverview.pdf

I just found out a vendor selling a journaling spread-sheet. The structure presented in the spreadsheet is typical of Kam's methodological approach to the market.

http://tradingspreadsheets.com/L2ST_Futures_Trading_Journal_Spreadsheet.aspx


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Last edited by aviat72; October 16th, 2010 at 03:01 AM.
 
  #54 (permalink)
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Here is a quote from L2ST latest email announcing incoming webinar where Kam will try to sell pitnoise service in addition to his own NLP meditations. Just pay for it or you'll never get the "added EDGE":
"In this Webinar Kam Dhadwar of L2ST Traders Coaching will be showing you how to utilize the most powerful discretionary trading methods that help you get behind the mindset and way of thinking of the Commercial Market Participants. Understanding how the big players that move the market think, is the best way to stand the greatest chance of trading the best trading opportunities with greatest Reward potential. Kam will show you how to read the Market Participants every move with the greatest level of understanding through Auction Market Theory, Market Profile and unique Order Flow analysis techniques whilst using the S&P Pit Audio service within Tradethenews.com for and added EDGE."(I've highlighted some of the beautiful language, but honestly all of it is a masterpiece, EDGE is in original spelling)
OK, I've done my part here. If somebody still needs explaining and convincing -- he shouldn't have any money in the first place and Kam is a better owner for such money. At least he won't blow it trading.


Last edited by Sasha; October 17th, 2010 at 01:29 AM.
 
  #55 (permalink)
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Controversy

I have not been following all the talk about Kam on here,
But I did just go to the L2ST - Trading Futures Online- Learn to trade futures online website.
For my two cents worth of opinion, this is way too expensive and a huge risk.
10 thousand pounds is an unnecessary outlay to one person.
There are other more reasonable offers out there.
Ron

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  #56 (permalink)
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Ron Schnee View Post
I have not been following all the talk about Kam on here,
But I did just go to the L2ST - Trading Futures Online- Learn to trade futures online website.
For my two cents worth of opinion, this is way too expensive and a huge risk.
10 thousand pounds is an unnecessary outlay to one person.
There are other more reasonable offers out there.
Ron

I will really appreciate if you could provide information about more reasonable mentor-ship programs out there.

I agree with you that the initial 10K GBP outlay is probably more than what most people can and want to afford. Though it is supposed to cover one year and includes all their other stuff (trading room, videos etc.), it is still a major upfront commitment.

Perhaps if you join a great prop-shop you will get access to the same kind of training and support. But I do not know much about how they are structured. There is very little information out there about prop-shops and how they structure their training and development of traders. There are of course a lot of warnings of prop-shop scam artists who also charge thousands while providing little.

FWIW, the L2ST program is quite comprehensive in structure in terms of addressing the technical, business, and psychological aspect of trading.


Sasha:

I have personally benefited from the 2-3 weeks I have spent in the room. Perhaps because I can relate to the issues he has raised in the room. At 200 GBP (actually 240 because of the VAT), it is not cheap. However like cunparis, I also believe that a few months in their room are definitely going to be worth the money.

Cross-Marketing your product with different vendors is not something unique. Kam refers to pit-noise and he likes to have it on because he feels it gives it some sense of how active/slow the market and the level of interest is. From whatever I know the pit these days are not representative of a lot since most of the trading has moved to screens and the pits represent very little. However, there are times when the pit has additional information which may not be evident to folks off the exchange.

All the marketing fluff aside, I unfortunately, have not seen evidence to suggest that the guy is a charlatan as you believe. I have seen go through all the stages of a trade very methodically (pre-trade plan, trade execution, and post-trade management) while addressing both the technical and psychological aspects of trading. Perhaps I have seen them in action during the time they are on a hot streak, but that is my perspective so far.

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  #57 (permalink)
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Sasha View Post
Kam is a proud "NLP (and all other new wave discipline's) certified practitioner" and will try to hypnotize you and cure all of your problems

I myself do not use NLP even though I have studied that method of potential psychological development. What I have studied that I did use frequently in the US Military and now in trading.......VISUALIZATION techniques.

Many very successful people who are involved with extremely critical operational environments use Visualization techniques. These techniques are used to build, hone, and then advance their constructive psychological capabilities/habits......which activates a very positive byproduct to destroy unconstructive psychological tendencies.

See who uses Visualization techniques........ Blue Angels Teamwork | FulcrumTrader

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  #58 (permalink)
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Not a course, but great

An oldie but goodie The Disciplined Trader by Mark Douglas

Packed with insights, an amazing book.

Not an easy read but well worth the effort.

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  #59 (permalink)
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FulcrumTrader View Post
I myself do not use NLP even though I have studied that method of potential psychological development. What I have studied that I did use frequently in the US Military and now in trading.......VISUALIZATION techniques.

Many very successful people who are involved with extremely critical operational environments use Visualization techniques. These techniques are used to build, hone, and then advance their constructive psychological capabilities/habits......which activates a very positive byproduct to destroy unconstructive psychological tendencies.

See who uses Visualization techniques........ Blue Angels Teamwork | FulcrumTrader

There are many different techniques, and many do work. VISUALIZATION definitely works well. I've found out that anything that works in sports -- will help in trading. The problem is often not with technique per se (if I've spelled it right my spell checker plays funny games so please forgive me), but with a "charlatan" presenting it.

P.S. I can recommend FulcrumTrader man here without hesitation. He is honest. And I've heard a lot of good things about his room, thou never participated myself.

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  #60 (permalink)
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Zondor View Post
An oldie but goodie The Disciplined Trader by Mark Douglas

Packed with insights, an amazing book.

Not an easy read but well worth the effort.

A few years ago I have experienced a trauma when lost a small fortune in one trade. After that I have noticed that my body responds in a very funny way to the risk of any open position. I could not continue trading while shaking so I was forced to look for an answer. Being perfectionist I studied quite a lot of different methods and techniques, and Mark Douglas's books were the very first stop.
It didn't work for me, so I moved on. I did concur my problem after all, mostly thanks to "Release technique", but now trading psychology became a hobby of mine so I always looking for new books and webinars etc. on the subject.
The latest webinar that impressed me was on MarketDelta last week by Andrew Menaker. He has a blog on his site PopDoc Trader and it is worth reading thru as well.
I am glad that pro's are attracted into the trading subfield and expect that it will keep improving.
On the other side of it there are smart traders that share their own stories that could be helpful: I listened to Linda Raschke's Christmas gift and realized for the first time that I am not crazy, that many if not all traders went thru similar experiences.

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