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What Training courses you have please give me your review
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What Training courses you have please give me your review

  #41 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Sasha View Post
.
Brooks and Miller used to make money in the past, but judging from their failure to adopt to the new market conditions, I doubt they do it now

What do you mean "adopt to the new market"?

I have lots of respect for Al Brooks and I honestly believe he is profitable.
For once, he is the LEAST of a salesman in this industry, and seldom Al goes out and does a webinar here and there and sells nothing after. Even his own forum is not run by him. He wrote a book, and from what I know about publishing and royalties, he gets almost nothing out of it. I don't think this book is for beginners, and therefore I wont recommend it to the fella who started this thread. But I can say that for me, it did 2 major things, if I may share: it removed the clutter where simplicity of method became the ultimate sophistication.
But above all, it made me realize where amateur traders place their trades (greed) and where they get out (fear).

I don't mean to start an argument, just sharing my experience with a person that I actually interact with and have respect for.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
 
  #42 (permalink)
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aviat72 View Post

(4) It would really be helpful if you can specify what exactly you disliked about the L2ST folks. Perhaps they themselves have grown as educators and are doing a better job communicating now than they did a few months ago when you joined them.

Perhaps they have grown up, if it is possible to grow up from being a lier, but it doesn't seem so merely judging from that non-trading for 6 months restriction. How do you built confidence by "not trading for at least 6 months", I wonder? That method of confidence building might work or it might not, but what it will guarantee is that you'll be able to continue paying his fees for at least 6 months. Later you'll blow your account, quit trading and stop paying L2ST I guess but your confidence'd be solid!

Now here is what I dislike. My first trading room was Woodie's and it took me a while to figure out what caused my discomfort over there. It was 2 things : Woodie's vagueness and sometimes straight lies(e.g. CCI is a leading indicator) combined with fanatics attacking every descender or even every relevant question. Other than that his teachings made a lot of sense, he is definitely very experienced profitable trader himself, he also would call the market accurately when the conditions were right and his approach to psychological issues is unique and can definitely work for many. And it is free! But I am glad that I left his room.
You see, nobody would waste a second of their time on a guru who is not even close to sense. In other words all that it takes to sell a guru is an impression that he can teach, that he knows something, and you can not make such an impression with complete BS - the competition is huge. So there are quite a few of them that have more than complete BS to offer. MP and MD are my tools as well and I trade in almost the same way L2ST sells you. The problem is that all his method would fit a couple of pages or fifteen minutes movie, that's it. The rest is just junk, mumbling of moron. That is why it is so frustrating : you listen for hours and hours of incomprehensible self-promoting mumbo-jumbo while all you need to know is written in a few words on the screen(and booklet itself is not bad btw). And when it comes to things other than his trading "system" it turns into complete BS. I mean NLP and hypnoses and other magic he thinks he possess: that is just funny. I certainly agree that the psychological aspects of trading are the most challenging and very important, but I would not trust such important things to such a dilettante "Mentalist" who himself is likely high all the time(that is judging from the way he talks).
To summarize, I suggest you watch his "Scalping the DOM" lecture and tell me if you can figure out how to scalp the DOM after it. Or at least find any small piece useful information in there. I don't remember if it was free or paid but I applied a lot of effort into it and watched it a few times - I love the subject and couldn't believe that there is absolutely, and I mean absolutely nothing hidden inside several hours of fast talk.

So that is not MP or delta or psychology of trading that I reject, on the contrary. I just despise when a guy who himself is apparently sick wants my money to teach me how to cure my lesser illness.

But I will be glad to change my mind if you could show your statement with profits. Just hide the account number and other personal information and post it here. It would be greatly appreciated and would speak louder than any words. I do not use any such services for a year or so, but I promise I'll join yours if you can show that you can trade, why not?

 
  #43 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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mattz View Post
What do you mean "adopt to the new market"?

I have lots of respect for Al Brooks and I honestly believe he is profitable.
For once, he is the LEAST of a salesman in this industry, and seldom Al goes out and does a webinar here and there and sells nothing after. Even his own forum is not run by him. He wrote a book, and from what I know about publishing and royalties, he gets almost nothing out of it. I don't think this book is for beginners, and therefore I wont recommend it to the fella who started this thread. But I can say that for me, it did 2 major things, if I may share: it removed the clutter where simplicity of method became the ultimate sophistication.
But above all, it made me realize where amateur traders place their trades (greed) and where they get out (fear).

I don't mean to start an argument, just sharing my experience with a person that I actually interact with and have respect for.

Arguments are OK mattz, they often lead to truth. I never said that I disrespect Al Brooks. What I meant is that the world and the market have moved on. There are new tools out there (e.g. Market Delta) that utilize the new abilities given to us recently by computers and such as well as there are new conditions that are created by such new abilities (Robots are now trading the markets and they are very good and very fast).
So thou you are certainly right about simplicity and greed and ultimate sophistication, head'n'shoulders doesn't work as it used to. What I suggest is to pick up the pearls from the older guys and move on with the rest of the world.

 
  #44 (permalink)
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I'm in signaltrading. Signal Trading - Live Daytrading Futures Forex Room they offer free week trial and they are honest, they loose money just like you and me on some days but they are monthly profitable. More learning than just calling out trades.

Signaltrading AND bigmike forum are the 2 sources I learned everything from (and my 30 books I have read :-)

They have now an 90 day intensive course 'learn how to daytrade' that might be interesting checking out.

 
  #45 (permalink)
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Sasha View Post
... head'n'shoulders doesn't work as it used to....

I'm not certain what this means.

Certain patterns do not work on all timeframes. The H&S pattern just happened on the S&P500 daily chart. Go back and look at how the bear market started in 2008 and you will see a H&S pattern.

I have attached the S&P500 from this year. Will this hit the target? Only time will tell because the market will do what it will do. Have a plan, trade the plan, exit when the market structure doesn't follow your expectations.

Andrew

Attached Thumbnails
What Training courses you have please give me your review-h-s-s-p-500-daily-2010.png  
The following user says Thank You to AR01 for this post:
 
  #46 (permalink)
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Sasha View Post
Perhaps they have grown up, if it is possible to grow up from being a lier, but it doesn't seem so merely judging from that non-trading for 6 months restriction. How do you built confidence by "not trading for at least 6 months", I wonder? That method of confidence building might work or it might not, but what it will guarantee is that you'll be able to continue paying his fees for at least 6 months. Later you'll blow your account, quit trading and stop paying L2ST I guess but your confidence'd be solid!

He wants you to sim-trade during the first six months with active journaling on both the technical and psychological aspect of the trades. This follows from his beliefs that it takes some time to rewire your brain to what come's naturally i.e. taking quick short profits but hoping that the losers become profitable. Repeated success with a system (in sim) helps builds the confidence you need to stick to it when it is real money at stake. I have not seen or experienced anything yet which would suggest that that his approach is not valid.


Quoting 
MP and MD are my tools as well and I trade in almost the same way L2ST sells you. The problem is that all his method would fit a couple of pages or fifteen minutes movie, that's it. The rest is just junk, mumbling of moron. That is why it is so frustrating : you listen for hours and hours of incomprehensible self-promoting mumbo-jumbo while all you need to know is written in a few words on the screen(and booklet itself is not bad btw).

That is the impression I have too. That the basic technical understanding is good and for some one who is not familiar with understanding order-flow and market-profile, his approach is quite good. For some one who already understands those aspects very well, of course it is 15 minutes stuff as you say. But for those who do not understand those aspects well or a beginner it is a good lesson. Definitely worth spending a month or two understanding.


Quoting 
And when it comes to things other than his trading "system" it turns into complete BS. I mean NLP and hypnoses and other magic he thinks he possess: that is just funny. I certainly agree that the psychological aspects of trading are the most challenging and very important, but I would not trust such important things to such a dilettante "Mentalist" who himself is likely high all the time(that is judging from the way he talks).

I think this is a much better information/criticism. I will keep that in mind when I review the stuff.


Quoting 
To summarize, I suggest you watch his "Scalping the DOM" lecture and tell me if you can figure out how to scalp the DOM after it. Or at least find any small piece useful information in there. I don't remember if it was free or paid but I applied a lot of effort into it and watched it a few times - I love the subject and couldn't believe that there is absolutely, and I mean absolutely nothing hidden inside several hours of fast talk.


In his room scalping is not something he talks about in any significant way. His focus primarily has been on identifying a couple of scenarios which are likely to happen pre-market, then observing order-flow to confirm that the market is responding in the expected way or not, and accordingly adapting the trading plan with well defined exit points. It has a very strong and clean focus on using very short time-frame order flow information to confirm the larger time-frame hypothesis built upon volume and market profiles.

BTW I found the videos on youtube also.
http://www.youtube.com/user/learn2stocktrade#p/u/1/l9oNlPBpA1I


Brian the second speaker, talks a lot about shorter term balances, retracements etc. and how to build and monitor expectations around shorter term market action within the backdrop of the longer term perspective.

I am not sure I have watched all the DOM stuff yet, but from whatever little I have watched, there have been certain specifics which do help provide the clues you would need a more systematic scalping strategy.

From your words, it does seem that you are a successful trader and the issues which Kam is trying to address are not something you need help with. I think that is great.


Last edited by aviat72; October 10th, 2010 at 11:05 PM.
 
  #47 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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aviat72 View Post
He wants you to sim-trade during the first six months with active journaling on both the technical and psychological aspect of the trades. This follows from his beliefs that it takes some time to rewire your brain to what come's naturally i.e. taking quick short profits but hoping that the losers become profitable. Repeated success with a system (in sim) helps builds the confidence you need to stick to it when it is real money at stake. I have not seen or experienced anything yet which would suggest that that his approach is not valid.



That is the impression I have too. That the basic technical understanding is good and for some one who is not familiar with understanding order-flow and market-profile, his approach is quite good. For some one who already understands those aspects very well, of course it is 15 minutes stuff as you say. But for those who do not understand those aspects well or a beginner it is a good lesson. Definitely worth spending a month or two understanding.



I think this is a much better information/criticism. I will keep that in mind when I review the stuff.




In his room scalping is not something he talks about in any significant way. His focus primarily has been on identifying a couple of scenarios which are likely to happen pre-market, then observing order-flow to confirm that the market is responding in the expected way or not, and accordingly adapting the trading plan with well defined exit points. It has a very strong and clean focus on using very short time-frame order flow information to confirm the larger time-frame hypothesis built upon volume and market profiles.

BTW I found the videos on youtube also.
YouTube - learn2stocktrade's Channel


Brian the second speaker, talks a lot about shorter term balances, retracements etc. and how to build and monitor expectations around shorter term market action within the backdrop of the longer term perspective.

I am not sure I have watched all the DOM stuff yet, but from whatever little I have watched, there have been certain specifics which do help provide the clues you would need a more systematic scalping strategy.

From your words, it does seem that you are a successful trader and the issues which Kam is trying to address are not something you need help with. I think that is great.

Well, just be careful and think again before pulling out your credit card to pay him once again. And since you found at least some use to my last post, I'll expand one thought a bit.
You see, awhile ago I came to a discovery: the trading related psychological issues are not separate and unique to trading only, but are quite common in all other aspects of human lives. We just don't pay them as much attention when they do not seemingly cause so big of a problem (note I said "seemingly"). So I decided to study what is out there to help, and was pleasantly surprised at variety of different methods and techniques. (Even NLP stands for hundreds of different teachings) Unfortunately most of them unproven, created by people uneducated in the field and never seriously studied by anyone. Nevertheless I tried most of them and found that there is much truth in the Sedona method approach : in short the more energy and time you invest into fighting your emotion (doesn't matter which way you do it) the harder it gets. Such unskillful practitioners as this Kam are very dangerous not because they can harm us by their hypnosis or as you call it rewiring (just think about it, if it were true, you are allowing unlicensed unethical uneducated "doctor" to "rewire" your brains) -- thanks god they hardly can do what they claim. But by constantly keeping your problem at the center of your attention. Remember how hard it is not to think about a white bear? His approach even if delivered by a professional can not work and in some cases can bring a person to a complete devastation. Bret suggests some very dramatic experiences solve emotional problems, but there are easier ways. Ways that are studied and documented btw, help that is much cheaper if not free to obtain.
Now after reading and responding to my posts can you answer two questions:
1. Have you ever experienced trance when Kam was "hypnotizing" you? Do you know someone who has?
2. If you ever heard about how hypnosis works to help let's say with smoking, you probably know that you do not need to do your rewiring for six months. In most cases 1 hour is enough. NLP became successful because they claimed and in many cases achieved complete cure of very serious lifetime fobias in a matter of minutes. That is why they called it "Programing". Installing a new program doesn't take long. So the question is have you or anyone you know were successful in "rewiring" your brain yet?
If you answer to both questions "no", as I did awhile ago than you have no choice then to admit that you'd been lied to, that at least a part of your money was paid with no services provided in exchange. You were not "rewired" (and you should be thankful for that: it is always better to lose some money than to end up in a mental hospital) you were not hypnotized by Kam. Nobody ever was... You already know that all his meditations and other hocus-pocus-okay crap is nothing but a waste of time.
On the other hand if he lied about that, why would you expect him to be honest in anything else?
Remember I've mentioned Woodie. If you'll look carefully at his club, you'll find an interesting phenomena. All of his users are losing money, all of them have long ago noticed the obvious inconsistencies in the method, but not only they keep coming and losing, but they would furiously attack, as I said, anyone who would dare to ask a question doubting Woodies scriptures even a little bit. After a few years and a small fortune lost most of them will move on, but why not sooner, why are they waiting for a miracle to happen for months and years, knowing already that they are wasting their time?
The answer is simple: they invest so much effort and time into learning that method that due to a human nature they get married to it like we tend to get married with a losing trade. We filter out all contradictory data while keeping searching for bits and pieces confirming our decision and so on. You likely know the scenario. Al the time our subconsciousness is aware of the conflict with reality and that nagging feeling causes us to react violently when someone attempts to dissolve our illusions.
Six months is more than enough to get hooked this way. So why not make a reality check?

 
  #48 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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AR01 View Post
I'm not certain what this means.

Certain patterns do not work on all timeframes. The H&S pattern just happened on the S&P500 daily chart. Go back and look at how the bear market started in 2008 and you will see a H&S pattern.

I have attached the S&P500 from this year. Will this hit the target? Only time will tell because the market will do what it will do. Have a plan, trade the plan, exit when the market structure doesn't follow your expectations.

Andrew

What that means Andrew is: that when your system gives you signals that lead to a loss in more than 50% of the time, you are no longer trading but investing. That's all. I'd rather use a coin

 
  #49 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Shasha:


(1) I have not spent any significant time on the NLP/Meditation stuff which Kam markets. I will keep your thoughts in mind when I do.

(2) OTOH, almost all good traders I know, swear on coming into the zone; almost all including Dr. Brett recommend some form of meditation to come into focus.

FuturesTrader71 one of the most popular free coaches out there is a big proponent of Transcendental Meditation. He swears by it, and has explicitly recommended it multiple times. And you bet there is a huge amount of controversy related to TM.

Within my circle of friends and family, I know multiple people who have benefited significantly from spending at least a few minutes a day meditating. I for one reason have never have had the discipline to do it in a structured manner, but whenever I have attempted, it did make me feel better.


(3) It seems your beef with L2ST is focussed on there NLP/Meditation/Hypnosis stuff which (I agree) can be dangerous to the uninitiated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stepping back, I would view any coach along the following metrics:

1. Does have a solid technical system to trade in place? Are the setups easy to understand? Are they based on market generated information or hunches, predictions etc?

2. Does he provide a psychological framework to help you become comfortable with the risk and reward associated with trades; e.g. when to focus on risk, when to focus on maximizing profits, what technical information to look for to help you keep you in a trade, or force you to accept the losses and move on to the next setup?


3. Does he provide help in guidance to a person just starting out or an experienced trader facing discipline/focus issues, by providing an overall structure to open, run and expand a trading business? Does he realize and understand that there are multiple dimensions to running a trading business and addresses each of them?


I have found L2ST to address all the three issues quite well. Further their synthesis of all the aspects real-time as you trade live is quite unique.

cunparis said that he talks a lot; I agree. But I am in his room to hear him talk; not see the same chart as every one else is seeing. If I need to pay attention to a trade; I can mute it. But I would rather have him talking and having the choice to decide when to listen and when not to, instead of hoping that he will speak when I am ready to listen.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

I noticed that you disagree with Dr. Brett about how negative emotions, can be used to drive change. I personally tend to agree with him, that fear is the most primal of all human instincts and CAN be best in forcing you to initiate and SUSTAIN the act of driving change.

When it comes to psychology each person is different, and will respond differently. I think you are very fortunate to have found out what works for you and what does not. That is great.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

With regards to L2ST, I think that your view is strong influenced by his talk about NLP etc. I will keep that in mind.

During my two weeks with them, they have not talked at all about scalping etc (which you found of no value at all), but have been focussed on market profile and order flow based trading on ES/DAX/YM. So far he has been right on and hitting almost 1.0.

Today he expected a range day but has warned about a possible extension back in the value area from Friday or an upward extension, especially later in the day. He warned that the rewards are going to be low with expected profits limited to 3-4 points. He also said that the foot-prints are not going to be very useful since by the time they confirm, you have already lost 20-30% of the expected move. People were able to milk the 1164-1160 range twice. Before signing off he said that after 2-3 tests, there is a much greater chance of the range breaking so be careful and focus on the order flow. He also said that on days like today markets like CL/YM/GC are perhaps better because the ranges are bigger. He talked about the correlation between GC/CL which is emerging...

I do not claim to be an MP expert but I have had very little to fault him on his technical reading of the market. He is posting his daily summary quite often on Youtube so you can get a chance to view it.


Last edited by aviat72; October 11th, 2010 at 01:17 PM.
 
  #50 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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aviat72 View Post
Shasha:


(1) I have not spent any significant time on the NLP/Meditation stuff which Kam markets. I will keep your thoughts in mind when I do.

(2) OTOH, almost all good traders I know, swear on coming into the zone; almost all including Dr. Brett recommend some form of meditation to come into focus.

FuturesTrader71 one of the most popular free coaches out there is a big proponent of Transcendental Meditation. He swears by it, and has explicitly recommended it multiple times. And you bet there is a huge amount of controversy related to TM.

Within my circle of friends and family, I know multiple people who have benefited significantly from spending at least a few minutes a day meditating. I for one reason have never have had the discipline to do it in a structured manner, but whenever I have attempted, it did make me feel better.


(3) It seems your beef with L2ST is focussed on there NLP/Meditation/Hypnosis stuff which (I agree) can be dangerous to the uninitiated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stepping back, I would view any coach along the following metrics:

1. Does have a solid technical system to trade in place? Are the setups easy to understand? Are they based on market generated information or hunches, predictions etc?

2. Does he provide a psychological framework to help you become comfortable with the risk and reward associated with trades; e.g. when to focus on risk, when to focus on maximizing profits, what technical information to look for to help you keep you in a trade, or force you to accept the losses and move on to the next setup?


3. Does he provide help in guidance to a person just starting out or an experienced trader facing discipline/focus issues, by providing an overall structure to open, run and expand a trading business? Does he realize and understand that there are multiple dimensions to running a trading business and addresses each of them?


I have found L2ST to address all the three issues quite well. Further their synthesis of all the aspects real-time as you trade live is quite unique.

cunparis said that he talks a lot; I agree. But I am in his room to hear him talk; not see the same chart as every one else is seeing. If I need to pay attention to a trade; I can mute it. But I would rather have him talking and having the choice to decide when to listen and when not to, instead of hoping that he will speak when I am ready to listen.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

I noticed that you disagree with Dr. Brett about how negative emotions, can be used to drive change. I personally tend to agree with him, that fear is the most primal of all human instincts and CAN be best in forcing you to initiate and SUSTAIN the act of driving change.

When it comes to psychology each person is different, and will respond differently. I think you are very fortunate to have found out what works for you and what does not. That is great.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

With regards to L2ST, I think that your view is strong influenced by his talk about NLP etc. I will keep that in mind.

During my two weeks with them, they have not talked at all about scalping etc (which you found of no value at all), but have been focussed on market profile and order flow based trading on ES/DAX/YM. So far he has been right on and hitting almost 1.0.

Today he expected a range day but has warned about a possible extension back in the value area from Friday or an upward extension, especially later in the day. He warned that the rewards are going to be low with expected profits limited to 3-4 points. He also said that the foot-prints are not going to be very useful since by the time they confirm, you have already lost 20-30% of the expected move. People were able to milk the 1164-1160 range twice. Before signing off he said that after 2-3 tests, there is a much greater chance of the range breaking so be careful and focus on the order flow. He also said that on days like today markets like CL/YM/GC are perhaps better because the ranges are bigger. He talked about the correlation between GC/CL which is emerging...

I do not claim to be an MP expert but I have had very little to fault him on his technical reading of the market. He is posting his daily summary quite often on Youtube so you can get a chance to view it.

You are getting there, i can feel it, but let me help you just a bit more:
I do not reject neither Brett's bloody approach nor NLP/meditation. In fact I quit smoking in one day using NLP(that is after more than 20 years of habit) and never suffered even a second. And never paid a penny for it.
I am sure that Brett's method works and I consider him to be the best at the trade, but there are other less dramatic ways.
My "beef' with Kam is mostly because he is a lier, because he claims to be what he is not, because he charges money from desperate people for the services he can not possibly provide and that is fraud.
Now about your criteria for a decent trading teacher: you missed one important -- honesty! What you did not miss is all good, but ask yourself is there an acting trading room that does not meet easily all of these 3 qualities you mentioned? I can name you a few hundred just from memory... Woodie's club is clearly one of them, it is free and is definitely more trustworthy.
What is the purpose of being in the room? To pick up and exploit the signals without understanding how are they generated? Or to learn how to generate the signals and manage a trade? What is really worth paying for?
You mentioned FT71, he is good. there is Falcrum Trader, Discovery Group and many many other real traders, so look around


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