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What Training courses you have please give me your review
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What Training courses you have please give me your review

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Slipknot511's Avatar
 
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I have gone through dozens, if not a hundred, books & courses. My gut instinct is to say that 99.9% are a waste of time and money, yet I'm sure I gleaned at least one valuable concept form most of them. Who's to say that one nugget was not worth the price paid? It's extremely difficult to attribute value to courses and books. I think this is because just as every trader is uniquely different & the methodology that will work for them is unique, so too are the resources that will help them achieve their goals.

The paradox of trading resources is that it is difficult at best to know in advance if a particular course or book will benefit you. There are items mentions highly in this thread that I think are garbage. And there are also materials mentioned as useless that I think had some value for me. The other posters and myself are probably both correct in our opinions.
That being said, I think there are a few guidelines that warrant a big "Caution" from a trading course, book, video or whatever:
1) Promises of easy riches. This is a lie. PERIOD! I hit delete the instant I see the words "Secrets", "riches", "easy" or if there are pictures of bikini babes, beaches and exotic cars. All I can say is, "Run Forest, RUN!"
2) Subscriptions or recurring fees as opposed to selling a product outright. This approach is usually designed for one purpose: To generate cashflow. There are exceptions though.
3) Be cautious of the advice given on the myriad of internet forums. Most of these consist of losers looking to other losers for direction or affirmation. There are a few successful traders who frequent these, but they are few and far between.

Be aware that there is a huge industry that makes a fortune on marketing and cross-marketing trading related goods and services. I'm very leery of ads or spam of so-called traders informing us about their "buddy" over at company XYZ who has cracked the code of the markets. Over the years, I regularly see the same names popping up again and again selling a new system every year or two. Often these sellers are a shill for each other. Buyer beware.

There are signs that a seller or educator might be legitimate:
1) The exact opposite of all the things above. They stress how difficult trading is and that it is anything but a path to easy riches. (At his CBOT webinars, Mark Fisher often says that trading is the second most difficult job in the world after President of the USA".) He may be right.
2) A strong emphasis on psychology and money management coupled with a strong de-empahsis of the importance of methodology. Experienced traders know that Psychology and money management (risk management) are 90% or more of the game and methodology makes up the small balance.
3) A lack of selling pressure. I have only one educational resource that I spend money on regularly. I have NEVER been solicited by this person. He has NEVER urged me to buy his book or subscribe to his daily commentary. This trader only even has a live commentary because a group of us literally begged him to do so. To be blunt, he is not a good author or educator, but is the best damn trader I know of.
4) In my 7 years of experience in this industry, i can honestly say the best resources are usually free. These can be web resources like futures.io (formerly BMT). The exchanges are an excellent source of free education.
5) Just because someone charges, does not make them a huckster. Successful traders and good educators know that charging for their services keeps the dreamers and hecklers from monopolizing their time. It assures those they devote their time to are willing to invest in their education.
6) There is absolutely no correlation between price and value... whatsoever!

Many won't want to hear this, but the spot forex market is a breeding ground for sharks. It was made available to the public for one reason: to separate you from your money, not because anyone felt the need to create a new income opportunity for us. The lure of this market is an appeal to item number 1 above - The desire for easy riches. Yes, it is possible to make good money trading retail forex... but VERY FEW do.
Likewise for the exchange traded instruments. Do we honestly think the e-mini was created because the exchange felt sorry for the general public and wished for us to get a slice of the pie also? The pit traders call us "paper", the electronic professionals have a name for us also: "Liquidity". You are on their playground, playing with their ball by their rules. If you can't recognize & accept this, then you have already lost. You need to answer one question: "What have you got going for you that they don't?". Find the answer and you find success.

Lastly: NEVER, never, never, never ever give up! Winners all have one common trait: The absolute refusal to accept failure. At the risk of revealing my inner nerd, I quote Yoda, "Do, or do not. There is no try.".

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  #22 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Reno, NV
 
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Thank you, Slipknot511. That is a nice summary, hard to argue with what you said. I'll risk to add a couple of remarks:

1. "Difficult" is too vague of a term. When somebody tells me that it is difficult I want to know more: why? in what way?. After all if it is easier job than US Presidents, we now know that any idiot can do it no problem. So if it is not intellect that requires to be a good trader or a regular president of US, than what?

2. There are fake guru's and a lot of them who are exploiting "strong emphasis on psychology and money management coupled with a strong de-empahsis of the importance of methodology" demand. Not to insult anyones feelings, but I can name a few that were highly regarded in this thread. To illustrate I'll mention only one such fake guru - L2ST Kam: he would not offer you an easy road to riches but an easy road to learning and conquering the psychological aspects of the trade for example. I couldn't complete his expensive 3 day course, had to quit after 3 hours, exhausted from his constant bragging and thousands of "OK's". Like Van Tharp himself Kam is a proud "NLP (and all other new wave discipline's) certified practitioner" and will try to hypnotize you and cure all of your problems in a very funny and naive sounding way. There are many others as well that will take your money promising what they have no clue how to do.

P.S.fiki mentioned a truly good teacher that is not absolutely free anymore, but he is still good though.
P.P.S. Where it come to trading methodology, I will concur on MarketDelta free video's and pdf's. These a truly good. The psychological aspects of the business are best covered by Brett N. Steenbarger in my opinion. He is a no BS professional and doesn't do voodoo magic. If you'd like to turn to hypnosis still, do not expect to fall in trance after listening to Van Tharp L2ST etc. It will save you time and money to use a professional here as well, thou on the surface it seems more expensive. But at least you'll get what you are looking for.


Last edited by Sasha; June 14th, 2010 at 05:33 PM. Reason: PPS
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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
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Slipknot511's Avatar
 
Posts: 176 since May 2010
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The best way I can describe difficult is with an analogy: Losing weight is very simple - eat less and exercise more; yet millions of people find it incredibly difficult to lose weight.
Simple, but very hard to actually do... Just like trading.

Steenbarger is one of the good guys. He's very open and honest.
The irony is: just because someone can't do, does not mean they can't teach well.

The sad thing is that there must be more snake-oil salesmen in this industry than any other... except maybe for the weight-loss industry.

Here's my list of people I think are legit:
Al Brooks
Alexander Elder
Don Miller
Linda Raschke
This is my short list of people I know who actually trade for a living, not sell for a living & have been doing it for at least 20 years. When these folks talk, I listen.

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  #24 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Reno, NV
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Favorite Futures: BUND
 
Posts: 30 since Apr 2010
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I would definitely shorten your list even more by removing the first 3.
When people talk of snake oil salesmen that can not make their living trading but are making good money selling books about it, 2 names come first to my mind - Elder and Bernstane. Following them and their many followers never could possibly bring consistent profits.
Brooks and Miller used to make money in the past, but judging from their failure to adopt to the new market conditions, I doubt they do it now. And certainly people without their screentime will fail if following their teachings.
Linda is the real deal thou.
There are some people that I wish were here when I began trading: discoverytradinggroup is one of them. I found that their 3 free videos gave me more than about a $100,000 worth of books and videos and in a much shorter time.
P.S. I do not mean to be argumentative, just helpful. And all of the above is my opinion nothing more...


Last edited by Sasha; June 14th, 2010 at 09:58 PM. Reason: PS
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  #25 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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I think the master swing trader is valuable for most traders. You can get the book from your local library and see if you respond to the material before you buy any training courses. I don't like to recommend anything that costs money because trading has so much to do with the individual what works for me might not work for you. With that said I think the material is worth the cost. It is comprehensive and guides the trader very well on building a plan for entries and managing trades.

The website is at hardrightedge.com. I do not trade with indicators, and this material includes indicators. Many of them, tells you how to use them together. All the usual. I think it was good for me. Helped me become a well rounded trader. I feel like it's important to know how other people trade even if you don't trade the same way.

You could find everything for free on the internet, but if someone was interested in saving time and having an organized "lesson plan" than again I think it is worth while. It is not expensive. I would not list it with the scams that are out there.

One of the big concepts that is covered is market cycles and how to trade them correctly with the right tools.

 
  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, CA
 
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I can vouch for this post. I too have used most of the training videos on Informedtrades.com. They are very thorough for the beginning trader. Everything for Stocks, Bonds, Futures, and The history on the financial markets.

 
  #27 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Reno, NV
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
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Don M View Post
I can vouch for this post. I too have used most of the training videos on Informedtrades.com. They are very thorough for the beginning trader. Everything for Stocks, Bonds, Futures, and The history on the financial markets.

Master swing trader? Are you selling something? Is it a joke?

 
  #28 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Upstate, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Broker/Data: TraderPro
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Posts: 3 since May 2010
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IMO these so called guru's are completely worthless and a waste of your time and money. Think about it, if anyone can make a comfortable living and have freedom to spend your day doing whatever they wish. Why would they be spending all day and night training people who know nothing about the markets or trading? It's all a big fat scam to get your money because they can't make a living from trading the markets so they make their money from poor soles that don't know any better. Why aren't these guys in chat rooms or in these type of forums helping other independent traders? After all its us against the banks and large financial institutions right? There are many free chat rooms with good traders and alot of free video's and some good books that you can educate yourself and save the money you would be wasting on training courses and use it for trading capitol when you're ready to trade live.

I hope this helps and good trading

Cheers
itrade4income

 
  #29 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.quanttradingcapital.com.au 
Melbourne
 
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itrade4income View Post
IMO these so called guru's are completely worthless and a waste of your time and money. Think about it, if anyone can make a comfortable living and have freedom to spend your day doing whatever they wish. Why would they be spending all day and night training people who know nothing about the markets or trading? It's all a big fat scam to get your money because they can't make a living from trading the markets so they make their money from poor soles that don't know any better. Why aren't these guys in chat rooms or in these type of forums helping other independent traders? After all its us against the banks and large financial institutions right? There are many free chat rooms with good traders and alot of free video's and some good books that you can educate yourself and save the money you would be wasting on training courses and use it for trading capitol when you're ready to trade live.

I hope this helps and good trading

Cheers
itrade4income

While 90% you are right, still 10% you are wrong.
1. Why Gurus are teaching ? Well, it might be just a matter of risk preference. If they become tired of everyday risk exposure and just want calm working day for example. However, young and energetic traders would prefer trade every swing, every move.

2. Second, you mentioned some chat rooms and books. Well isn't that a same scum ? I have read a lot of books where authors have nothing to say, basically.

3. Third, is not that true that whole educational system ( I mean Universities, etc. ) is the same big scum? Why teachers go to teach ? Yes, right, if they can't make money using their knowledge then they go teach :-) I saw a lot of talanted people teaching in University. Why they teach ? Go work and make money in business, economy, mathematics instead of brain washing young fellows. :-)

4. Afterall, what is this forum about ? Why you guys are here ? Go trade, make money for a living, don't teach us professionals how to trade :-) Don't waste money on post, lets trade.

No offense mate. There is everywhere a place for scum and a place for real value. It is on us to decide. That is why I really stand for Rating agencies. In this case we ( this forum ) is a rating agency. And we say that the product is good or not. That is how open market works.

 
  #30 (permalink)
Elite Member
Fort McMurray, AB, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8 EOD,
Broker/Data: QT
Favorite Futures: currencies, indexes, CL
 
Posts: 18 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 8 received


Had a thoughtful reply made up and accidently hit the tab key. It's gone. *%*!

Mainly I feel we need to offer each promoter (trading guru) at least a five minute or whatever open minded acceptance that he or she may be the real thing.

Ultimately we can find somewhere what will be called an opportunity.
We all found futures.io (formerly BMT) didn't we?

So I give DimkDimk's #1 reason above room to work. For me.
While there are people selling stuff we do not like, we shouldn't diss all them out of hand with a big paint brush .

We are in the drivers seat, not them. Just walk away.

So, what I would caution anyone new to trading to do is early-on is to walk away from anyone asking for over two grand or even $999 for a relationship with you of some kind.

If you are new you do not know what may be the methodology you want to grow with and spend time on. And you will spend time.
So not to say they are ultimately bad, just over priced in the market. And it is a competative market.
I have learned from high priced guys yes, and part of what I have learned from low priced guys is there is just as much value there to begin with and you can look again if you want to because you have not dropped ten grand in one place.

Great to have futures.io (formerly BMT) forums and threads here to learn with too.

Ron


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