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Day Trade to Win's Atlas Line (daytradetowin.com)


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Day Trade to Win's Atlas Line (daytradetowin.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
 714trader 
Newport Beach, CA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2010

Has anyone heard of or know about Day Trade to Win's Atlas Line? I am wondering if it works, I have heard really great things about it, especially how great it works on the 6E and 6B. For $1,800 I want to get as much info on it before I buy it.

Also, does anyone know the logic behind how this trend line is derived?

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  #3 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
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714trader View Post
Has anyone heard of or know about Day Trade to Win's Atlas Line? I am wondering if it works, I have heard really great things about it, especially how great it works on the 6E and 6B. For $1,800 I want to get as much info on it before I buy it.

Also, does anyone know the logic behind how this trend line is derived?

I think John Paul is a crook. His Atlas Line might work I don't know. But I don't trust the guy at all.

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  #4 (permalink)
 714trader 
Newport Beach, CA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2010

I've heard rumors that the Atlas line is used by hedge funds. I also talk with a few traders on skype that have used a trial version of the Atlas who swear by it and have shown me screen shots of their trades.

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  #5 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
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Did you save the screenshots? I would love to see them. Maybe we could figure out what he is using. I haven't heard anyone here talk about John Paul's stuff used in hedge funds. I would be pretty surprised but what do I know?

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  #6 (permalink)
 ryohkyo 
San Francisco, CA
 
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another thing that ppl talk about here and rumored to be used by hedge funds is the VWAP indicator...but my tiny brain still can't figure out how to use that yet

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  #7 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
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I have heard about VWAP in hedge funds but not the atlas line. Anyone else hear of this? This creepy guy's name keeps popping up.

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  #8 (permalink)
 714trader 
Newport Beach, CA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2010

I was talking to some other traders who have the Atlas and it caught a 50 pip move on the 6E this morning. Triggered a long signal at 1.3621. These other traders have been having winners every day this week. Surprised nobody in here has heard of it.

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  #9 (permalink)
Richard
Dallas TX/USA
 
 
Posts: 154 since Jun 2009
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714trader View Post
I was talking to some other traders who have the Atlas and it caught a 50 pip move on the 6E this morning. Triggered a long signal at 1.3621. These other traders have been having winners every day this week. Surprised nobody in here has heard of it.

Well if you draw a straight line on a chart every day, price is going to move 50 pips past it sometimes. That's not really a rational way to evaluate of a secret method. According to your posts, you know multiple people that have and use the product. I would ask them for as much data as they are willing to give you, and then ask them for more. That would be the most efficient route to getting an honest feel for the product.

As a former insider, I'd be surprised if the rumor you are spreading is true, BTW. The hedge funds I've had contact with don't want consumer products for retail platforms, by and large. I suppose anything is possible, though.

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  #10 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
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ryohkyo View Post
another thing that ppl talk about here and rumored to be used by hedge funds is the VWAP indicator...but my tiny brain still can't figure out how to use that yet

in more professional applications like reuters or bloomberg, if you open a quote window, the vwap is a standard feature like bid and ask. often portfolio managers will give orders, and the traders will guarantee the vwap. if the execution is better, than the trader made a profit and if execution is worse he'll have a loss. so vwap is very common for many years.

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  #11 (permalink)
 djpl8 
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I bought the daytradetowin system on a lark. It is a range break-out system and you will lose your a$$ in the long run. Should be called the snake oil daytradetowin system. The Atlas line is more smoke up your behind to take your money! There is no short cut to profits. Study, study, study and study some more to be profitable. In the end this is the only way to become successful in this business.

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  #12 (permalink)
 David_R 
San Jose, Ca
 
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I have heard of DTTW and I bought the system as well. Not the Atlas line but the breakout system. As the saying goes, if it seems to good to be true it probably is. I traded it once or twice and made money, but the method calls for a 5 point stop in the ES. I think that is excessive and would rather find a way to trade with less risk. Plus, on occasion I would have a question about JP's recording of a trade as winner when I didn't see the trade play out like it was supposed to. Those questions would go unanswered. Anyway, bought it and dumped it. As far as the Atlas line goes, I've heard of it and I've seen one video on it. I didn't know it was $1800. Whenever i consider buying something that is supposed to be the end all be all "thing" in trading I just ask myself one question. I say to myself, self, if it was that good and one could make a fortune with it trading, why would they sell it? I guess they just want to help traders. Guess again.

D

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  #13 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
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David_R View Post
Plus, on occasion I would have a question about JP's recording of a trade as winner when I didn't see the trade play out like it was supposed to. Those questions would go unanswered.

That's the kind of thing that really bothers me.

Since the last time I went to the site a few months back, John Paul revamped the site to appear more exciting and flashier. It's hard to find anything on the site that describes how he takes trades. All he does is show videos. Have you noticed how he edits them to include the brand in the upper right corner? That would be a great way to hide the market replay. Half the time he doesn't even fill his orders on market replay in the videos. It's pretty hilarious. I heard JP give a live webinar once (co-sponsored by Ninja mind you) and within about 30 seconds people were asking in the chatroom where they could sign up and in the same breath where to download ninja. Hmmm... I am telling you that guy is a creep.

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  #14 (permalink)
 714trader 
Newport Beach, CA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2010

Here's the link to a free one week trial of the Atlas, daytradetowin.com/atlas

I have already exhausted my free trial so wondering if someone can test it out for themselves and let me know if they find any success in it?

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  #15 (permalink)
 Alan 
Sydney - Australia
 
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Where is the link?

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  #16 (permalink)
 sam028 
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714trader View Post
Here's the link to a free one week trial of the Atlas, daytradetowin.com/atlas

I have already exhausted my free trial so wondering if someone can test it out for themselves and let me know if they find any success in it?

714trader, have you visit the links posted here, and read what everybody says about daytradetowin ?
It's quite obvious that this is scam, so why do you want people to loose their time in testing this ?

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  #17 (permalink)
 David_R 
San Jose, Ca
 
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Dragon View Post
That's the kind of thing that really bothers me.

Since the last time I went to the site a few months back, John Paul revamped the site to appear more exciting and flashier. It's hard to find anything on the site that describes how he takes trades. All he does is show videos. Have you noticed how he edits them to include the brand in the upper right corner? That would be a great way to hide the market replay. Half the time he doesn't even fill his orders on market replay in the videos. It's pretty hilarious. I heard JP give a live webinar once (co-sponsored by Ninja mind you) and within about 30 seconds people were asking in the chatroom where they could sign up and in the same breath where to download ninja. Hmmm... I am telling you that guy is a creep.

The reason why he doesn't describe how he takes trades, at least for the regular daytrading course that is $600, is because if he even any detail you wouldn't need to course to get the answer. The manual is 50 plus pages with repetitive information to make the manual bigger. I could describe the original method in a paragraph or two. Since the initial method he has added another version for markets that run and don't come to the entry point. Ironically he calls that portion of the method the "chase the trade" method, something most of us try to avoid.

Actually, I'm not sure if he is doing a playback, but I have heard it is a Sim account. If you notice in the video that part of the DOM is hidden.

D

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  #18 (permalink)
 thatguy 
New Brunswick, NJ
 
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sam028 View Post
714trader, have you visit the links posted here, and read what everybody says about daytradetowin ?
It's quite obvious that this is scam, so why do you want people to loose their time in testing this ?

Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a clever marketing ploy by "714trader", pretending to be an interested newbie, but really here to direct traffic to his site with alleged rumours about hedgefunds using this magic line. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

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  #19 (permalink)
 714trader 
Newport Beach, CA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2010

I'm asking people to take the free trial and see if this works, I never told anyone to purchase it. I just want to know if anyone has used it so I can decide whether or not to buy it.

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  #20 (permalink)
 thatguy 
New Brunswick, NJ
 
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714trader View Post
I'm asking people to take the free trial and see if this works, I never told anyone to purchase it. I just want to know if anyone has used it so I can decide whether or not to buy it.

According to your posts, you have heard great things about it, you have heard that it is being used by hedge funds, you have talked with traders on Skype who has used it and you have used up your free trial already. Didn't you get your answer already?

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  #21 (permalink)
 puppeye 
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its really not that difficult to figure out the atlas line method, it uses the opening range to calculate the gradient of the line. attached are my version of the atlas line on ES. I havent looked at the daytradetowin website for a long time , so i am not sure whether its still the same. But if he hadnt changed his method, it should be exactly the same.

Does it work ? You can draw a line randomly on a chart and the results will be similar. Ever thought about why John only wrote a course on his at the open method and not the atlas line? and why he only occasionally posts his atlas line videos?

If you are interested in my atlas line indicator, make a donation to this forum and i will post it in the vip section.

Please note my timezone is gmt+8.










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  #22 (permalink)
 sam028 
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thatguy View Post
Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a clever marketing ploy by "714trader", pretending to be an interested newbie, but really here to direct traffic to his site with alleged rumours about hedgefunds using this magic line. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.


"714trader" was banned.

Not so clever marketing in fact .

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  #23 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
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Dragon View Post
I think John Paul is a crook. His Atlas Line might work I don't know. But I don't trust the guy at all.

He is a snake oil salesman.

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  #24 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
United States of America
 
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"714trader" was banned.

Not so clever marketing in fact .

In addition to revoking this membership, the posts should be deleted as they are all SPAM for this lowlife vendor.

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  #25 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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if you pump it enough it will rank high in google ranking search words, easy money.

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  #26 (permalink)
 dbw451 
Atlanta, GA
 
Experience: Advanced
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He's quite a marketer, looking credible by being on Ninja's full page ad in the March 2010 issue of TAS&C (page 7).

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  #27 (permalink)
 tomasito 
Chicago
 
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!. If you want to pay that much for an indicator you would be better off using that dough to feed the poor. The good you will have done will perhaps give you some good karma. I don't give a flying fig what said indicator does, it's worthless.

2. VWAP is simply another tool, not a ticket to wealth. Anyone can get it.

3. Market Profile has advanced from its initial phase and there are many purveyors who are relatively new to the concept. It involves some study. The result of understanding Market Profile helps the trader predict price action. The best of the best of those who use it can tell you what trades they look for and the likelihood of success.

4. I do know/knew a few who manage large sums of money. One, now deceased, was a VP at a very well known investment bank on Wall St. and wouldn't have known a charting indicator from Adam. They manage risk and employ people with doctorates in statistics, economics, finance, etc.. Most of the traders on the floor buy and sell when and what they are told.

In general developing a strategy, applying risk vs. reward numbers, and then trading and recording it's development will be much sounder. You can move on from there. Don't forget the costs of trading. You will need to make 1 or 2 ticks just to pay the freight. Utilize a strategy that pushes your R:R as high as possible.

Good Luck.

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  #28 (permalink)
 atata 
Calgary, AB
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I love this forum. Disclosure, I've never spent a penny on any for JP's system, however he is "quite a guy". He has announced a 3 session seminar for "how he is reading only the barcharts for /ES scalping, which got me interested. It was free so I have signed up since I am always willing to learn some new stuff. On the 1st seminar he was talking about - and I will not detail how hard was to get on the seminar because of lack of organization of his part - generic crap. Towards to the end I've asked him what about the topic, he has apologized and promised talk "more" about it on the next session. Well next session comes and goes and I've asked him the same question and referring to his promise from the previous one.... guess what has happened?
He has just ignored me... he was smart on the seminar because the questions were not sent to everybody only him... so I've skipped the 3rd as of waste of time. By the way he has talked a lot about a ".pdf" book which cost you only - can't remember the exact number - but around 500-600 USD.

The funniest and saddest of all while I was typing this reply, I have joined John Paul's session where he was just this morning promoting the "famous" Atlas line.
Along the presentation I've posted the link to this forum and also to another link on another forum where people had some not so "positive" reviews of the Atlas line "system".
Than suddenly a private message from a "guest" asking me why am I posting these. I've answered "cause I would like to inform people to make an educated decision before they get excited"
Here is what happened next: JP asked for a short brake than on the chat side of his presentation see below:

The chat history has been cleared.
guest (privately): ?!
John Paul (privately): is there something wrong with you


So clearly from whatever reason Mr John Paul himself was aware of these links and he did not want the rest of the listeners have such an easy ride to find them...
One thing I have to admit, he choose the naming quite cleverly so it makes it harder to find it even on google.

I am a paying customer at NT and I will recommend to NT removing him from the preferred vendor list. What else can be done to get crooks off the market like him? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

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  #29 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
Posts: 9 since May 2010

Hey good info with the charts pupeye thanks!

atata- I was actually in John's presentation when you posted the link to this forum, glad you brought my attention to this I attended that Atlas Method session because I already bought John's other system At Open at the beginning of this year and was looking for something to help me filter it. He didn't really convince me on the Atlas with the $1800 price but am glad to now be on this forum to see what everyone is saying.

The At Open did well the first month of January and since then has been giving back ok returns but I'm looking to maybe filter it with another method. Does anyone know of a good system to use as a filter?

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  #30 (permalink)
Richard
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atata View Post
So clearly from whatever reason Mr John Paul himself was aware of these links and he did not want the rest of the listeners have such an easy ride to find them...

I don't know of any marketer that would allow links to anonymous internet people saying bad stuff about their products to be posted at their own marketing event. Scam or not, I'm not sure why you think that is newsworthy.

It's typical to be slapped down even for mentioning a competitor in passing. Since you seem to like Ninja, I'll use ninja as an example. I used to give regular presentations at ninja. If I accidentally showed a screenshot I had taken with multicharts during the presentation, they'd pull it off-screen and erase the chat. Even if I mentioned a blog post which used another platform in one of the examples!

But I didn't go around on forums insinuating that "clearly ninja did not want the listeners to have such an easy ride to find other platforms...." cue ominous music... it's just the nature of business.

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  #31 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
Posts: 9 since May 2010

Yes that's very true Richard. I don't know of any company that would allow bad publicity on their own environment.

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  #32 (permalink)
EuroTrader
london
 
 
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I have spoken to John over the phone, and he has shown me how the Atlas works. Sadly, because of this forum and the belief in some more experienced traders I decide to walk away.

But, I saw this post today
:chart.ly/5hcy38

so I also have to give credit where credit is due! It was posted at time way before the market has drooped. I take the responsibility to buy it or not. But, I wonder if someone does trade these methodologies, or most of the guys here are competitors?
This Forum so far has been only “don’t buy this!”“he is a scammer” about all programs that I have checked so far….and at times I feel that it’s just the easiest thing to say to look good about any vendor out there. I regret not trusting my intuitions and subscribing to this“internet bullying” from many on this forum. Here is what I believe: most educators in this business could only provide a reference for trading to develop a methodology, and I never look at them as the crystal ball, despite my lack of experience. Maybe now the evaluation will be from a different angle, such as“is this a good trading block”? as oppose to“does this make money”?
The bottom line is that I wish people have used more objective advice,in evaluating products and helping traders
Just a thought…no need to jump back and bite.LOL

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  #33 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
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I think I agree with what you are saying in that it's very easy to dismiss any and all trading vendors as charlatans. On the other hand, most folks who have purchased any type of trading information from a vendor would be likely to say the product was over-stated and under-performed. Concerning the Atlas Line - I have no idea whether it has merit. Here is what I do know: the fact that it worked on a given day is almost meaningless. Second, about a year ago when I was considering the ATO method from the same vendor who promotes the Atlas Line, I had email correspondence that led me to believe his results were over-stated. To be more specific, at that time, daily results were posted. Trades that achieved 4 points in profit were always counted as 2 points on half contracts and 4 points on the second. However, when trades only moved 2 points in profit, they were counted as 2 points on all contracts. Unfortunately, it's not possible to know in advance when a trade hits 2 points of profit whether or not it will continue to 4 points. So you either move your stop to break even at 2 points, in which case some trades will get stopped at break even for no gain, or you take 2 points on half your contracts and move your stop to break even, in which case some trades will only profit those 2 points on half contracts. This might seem subtle, but it will dramatically skew the results one is able to attain - and they would not be remotely close to the results suggested by his performance records at the time. It is exactly this kind of dis-ingenuity that causes such skepticism about vendors in general. Another aspect of this discussion is the fact that trading is a skill that takes a good deal of time to acquire. It's not particularly easy and often, even when very good information is supplied by a vendor, it still doesn't translate into profitable trading for the purchaser. Many people think they can buy a course or find a specific indicator combination that will automatically morph them into profitable traders. If it worked that way, then everyone who went through the Investools training would be making fistfuls, or everyone who took the Pristine classes would be raking in bucket loads. In reality, only a persistent few, those willing to put in the time and do the work, climb to the top of the trading ladder.

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  #34 (permalink)
mRoss21
Dana Point
 
 
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EuroTrader View Post


But, I saw this post today:chart.ly/5hcy38

so I also have to give credit where credit is due! It was posted at time way before the market has drooped.


As they say "even a broken clock is right twice a day"

.

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  #35 (permalink)
DaytraderJOE
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mRoss21 View Post
*But, I saw this post today:chart.ly/5hcy38

so I also have to give credit where credit is due! It was posted at time way before the market has drooped.


.


I had to see it to believe it. but its true - So before the market crashed the Atlas Line posted "Stay Short" or something like that. Well if JP is putting his trades out there for the world to see PRIOR to events instead of after the fact i give him *some street credit. you don't see that too often.*

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  #36 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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I am not giving "JP" any credit. You guys should start a trading method thread with AtlasLine like Zoethecus did with the Viper system and show us how often it works. Based on this guy's track record I am predicting that his predictions suck

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  #37 (permalink)
 Dragon Slayer 
Texas
 
 
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EuroTrader View Post
But, I saw this post today:chart.ly/5hcy38

so I also have to give credit where credit is due! It was posted at time way before the market has dropped.


,
Glad to know someone posts real trades. Atlas Line was posted on chart.ly today too.I made sure it wasn't a one shot deal.
Soooo to me it legitimizes the method. If there was something to hide why would JP post intra day charts for the world to see? I for one prefer to follow the trade setups of someone who shows what he is doing and not afraid to put it out there. If you got the goods prove it and show it. And that's exactly what JP is doing. If you can't do what he does, then why insult the guy? don't be jealous, instead post your own trade setups, add something worthwhile to the community.

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  #38 (permalink)
 djpl8 
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If you want to save your money, just use Ichimoku indicators and you would have been short the ES since before the market on Tuesday using a 1 hour chart for the trend. I purchased the DayTrade2Win for education purposes and it doesn't work long term. Also, you can't use a 2 point profit and a 5 point stop and be successful long term.

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  #39 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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Dragon Slayer View Post
,
Glad to know someone posts real trades. Atlas Line was posted on chart.ly today too.I made sure it wasn't a one shot deal.
Soooo to me it legitimizes the method. If there was something to hide why would JP post intra day charts for the world to see? I for one prefer to follow the trade setups of someone who shows what he is doing and not afraid to put it out there. If you got the goods prove it and show it. And that's exactly what JP is doing. If you can't do what he does, then why insult the guy? don't be jealous, instead post your own trade setups, add something worthwhile to the community.

So are you Dragon Slayer or Eurotrader?

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  #40 (permalink)
 AR01 
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Dragon Slayer View Post
,
Glad to know someone posts real trades. Atlas Line was posted on chart.ly today too.I made sure it wasn't a one shot deal.
Soooo to me it legitimizes the method. If there was something to hide why would JP post intra day charts for the world to see? I for one prefer to follow the trade setups of someone who shows what he is doing and not afraid to put it out there. If you got the goods prove it and show it. And that's exactly what JP is doing. If you can't do what he does, then why insult the guy? don't be jealous, instead post your own trade setups, add something worthwhile to the community.

Awesome! So buy it and post the results in a Journal here at futures.io (formerly BMT) of how you are doing with his setups.

Andrew

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  #41 (permalink)
 David_R 
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I consider myself to be a very fair person. I think that has hurt me in life because generally speaking, life isn't fair. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt because that's just how I am. But, and this is a big but. When it comes to trading and all the people out there selling stuff, and, having been one to buy a fair amount of stuff, I always come back to the same question. I think this question has been stated before. The question is, if the "thing" is so good and works so well and one can make lots of money with it, WHY WOULD SOMEONE SELL IT? I wouldn't.

D

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  #42 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
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After my last post on this thread I ended up buying the Atlas Line indicator with a $200 discount that John gave me for being a member already. While my Initial reason for buying the Atlas Line was for the use of a filter, I've been using it as my market trend indicator every day. Not only has it given me correct market direction every day since buying it, it also saved my butt on Thursday with the huge fall that we had. I know it's easy to bash or throw dirt on educators/brokers/traders or whatever but for what it counts, John Paul's methods are legit and work great for me.

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  #43 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
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Three ways to make money from traders: First, buy something from someone willing to sell it and then sell it to someone else at a higher price. Second, sell something to someone willing to buy it, and then buy it back at a lower price. Third, market information to neophyte traders. The first two ways take skill and proficiency. The third, takes a website and a classified ad. In general, those using the first two methods do not use the third and vice versa. Do yourself a favor and become an Elite member here before you spend any more money. Best.

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  #44 (permalink)
 AR01 
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zulutrader View Post
After my last post on this thread I ended up buying the Atlas Line indicator with a $200 discount that John gave me for being a member already. While my Initial reason for buying the Atlas Line was for the use of a filter, I've been using it as my market trend indicator every day. Not only has it given me correct market direction every day since buying it, it also saved my butt on Thursday with the huge fall that we had. I know it's easy to bash or throw dirt on educators/brokers/traders or whatever but for what it counts, John Paul's methods are legit and work great for me.

I'm glad the indicator is working for you over this timeframe. Keep us up to date.

Andrew

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  #45 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
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two 2-4 point winners this morning with the ato [at the open]. doesn't get easier than that, done for the day folks.

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  #46 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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Alright zulu whatever you say...

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  #47 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
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zulutrader View Post
two 2-4 point winners this morning with the ato [at the open]. doesn't get easier than that, done for the day folks.

That's great Zulu. Congrats. No one else seems to get his methods to work consistently over time but since you can - bingo - you're on your way. As long as you're making money with that approach, don't change a thing, keep your nose to the grindstone and milk that cow until the fat lady sings. All the best for continued success and... for anyone who cares to follow your trades, the methods are available right here at futures.io (formerly BMT). How sweet it is!

Go get 'em!

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  #48 (permalink)
 c0ol2 
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I've visually backtested the method but never actually sim traded it, but looks possible with 3 targets of 3,7,10 ticks, because it usually a break out move from the highs and lows of the 9:30-9:50 range. there is this free indicator on the ninja fourm called FHHM or something thats lets u input those times and draws a line on the chart.

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  #49 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
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I couldn't help myself but post on this topic again to let you all know that all this week have been winners for the ATO method.

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  #50 (permalink)
 djpl8 
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Congrats, I'm glad the ATO works for you. I couldn't stomach the 5 point stops that would erase my winning trades. If you are using his methods with a little bit of filtering then use what works. I was pretty consistant with his scalping method, but I can only trade during the day on Mondays and I am not into killing myself mentally for a few pennies. I do alot better with covered calls and options strategies with alot less stress. I wish you the best toward your trading success.

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  #51 (permalink)
 razor99 
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Zulu,
today was a loser for the out of the box ATO trade (=5 points each contract) . Did the Atlas line filter this one out?

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  #52 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
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Razor- Yep, stopped out, I held it to long . I got on average 2.5 pts everyday for the Last 2 weeks, which is awesome. Actually Atlas Line went short way before ATO hit, so I grabbed 2pt with Atlas Line. Nothing I’ve used even comes close. Did you grab 2 pts today ATO ? Another 3 Pts in the bank! Atlas Line was spot on with all Winners. I didn’t take them all. I’ll upload a chart later. Bang!

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  #53 (permalink)
 sam028 
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zulutrader View Post
Razor- Yep, stopped out, I held it to long . I got on average 2.5 pts everyday for the Last 2 weeks, which is awesome. Actually Atlas Line went short way before ATO hit, so I grabbed 2pt with Atlas Line. Nothing I’ve used even comes close. Did you grab 2 pts today ATO ? Another 3 Pts in the bank! Atlas Line was spot on with all Winners. I didn’t take them all. I’ll upload a chart later. Bang!

Zulu has always very nice results with this, but is unable to prove anything.
No charts, nothing.

Just like 714trader, who started the thread.
And like this guy, we think he is what he claims to be.

I'm banning zulutrader, vendors are allowed, but they have to play with our rules.

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  #54 (permalink)
 razor99 
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I was hoping youd wait until "if" he posted promised charts.

razor

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  #55 (permalink)
 sam028 
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razor99 View Post
I was hoping youd wait until "if" he posted promised charts.

razor

Well, no charts posted in 2 months, the probability to see one of his charts were really to low...
With the other elements we have on him, no need to wait/spend too much time on this case.


I don't know what are you thinking about this "line", but the fact is the thread has been open by a guy who seems to work for them, and the only positive opinion of it was from a suspicious guy, who doesn't post his charts where we can see how marvelous this line is.

So, if it's a good indicator, the company who sells it should try to hire another advertising manager...

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  #56 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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What happened to Dragon Slayer and Eurotrader?

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  #57 (permalink)
 YulinYao 
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Hi:

I have donated to this site. Please show me your line.

Thank you.

Yulin

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  #58 (permalink)
 razor99 
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You are right (as usual). Thanks for keeping me from getting sucked into the vortex.

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  #59 (permalink)
 Dragon Slayer 
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I'm not sure what the agenda here at big mike forum when moderators ban traders for answering questions from other traders. Sam, you blew it on this one. Razor asked a question and zulu answered it honestly, then he was banned for saying something positive? I think it reflects poorly on the way things are handled here at big Mike forum. It would have been better to ask zulu to post charts, but you didn't even give him a chance.

I have posted the charts in question, which Razor asked. Zulu answered correctly what razor asked.

July 12
July 14
July 20 Today

I will be happy to post more charts for traders to see that the Atlas Line and ATO do in fact add to our trading as a benefit.

Traders like Dragon who rant and complain have no idea what he's talking about since he claims to never have purchased anything from DTTW. I haven't read anything of value with those rants, but the moderators seem to allow it as it draws in the drama. I wonder if Dragon is bashing vendors because he himself is offering and selling something? I wonder??

I am posting my charts to prove a point that both the Atlas line and ATO are one of the only Price action methods i have found to be consistent. i have purchased lots of crap so i know what i'm talking about.

If you don't believe it check out my charts. Razor can vouch all the signals are real. the last 2 weeks have been 10 winners one loss. That is a fact which can be supported with charts. You can take that to the bank.

I know i'm not part of the drama click here at big mike's forum, but i'd like to at least offer my experiences to the mix to help us all as traders.
My charts are attached, take from it what you may.

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  #60 (permalink)
 sam028 
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Sorry Dragon Slayer, but this forum is not a democracy where everybody can write anything, and advertising for self-promotion is not allowed ( check this post).
And trying to do this in hiding your real vendor identity is not allowed either.

So, when some suspicious threads/posts, we investigate a bit.

And when you find that:
- 714Trader, which is supposed to live in south California, posts from Oregon
- Zulutrader, whch is supposed to live in NY, post from Florida
- Dragon Slayer, whch is supposed to live in Texas, post from Florida too
- these people joined the forum and immediately posted in the day trade to win thread, and no where else
what do we think ?

Do you think we are complete idiots ?

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  #61 (permalink)
 atata 
Calgary, AB
 
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Sam good reply.
I'd believe for this guy everyone is an idiot why anything different regards to us? For his credit, working really hard to sell his c**p! Regards to the charts, the setup is all double top or bottom so why anyone would need to pay for something what does not do anything? The message I am getting from the "charts" that just play double b/t on the 5 minute bars for setup and forget about the whatever line, oh which by the way will stop selling by end of July so please hurry other wise you'll be left out...
My suggestion if one ever consider to buy just draw a line for yourself for free if you really need a line.

Regards to my request to Ninja to ban the author as a partner they didn't do it, in fact they registered his other "company" as well... very disappointed.

atata

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  #62 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
Legendary Market Wizard
New Orleans, La (Mardi Gras City)
 
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FWIW:
This is not my fight and I do not use any of these nor endorse them.
These people may or may not be part of the site in question. I do not know, nor do I care.

However, as an IT person I know it is very easy to post from places that are not where you actually are located.
Some services even allow this for anonymity reasons. And in this day of Wireless Broadband, the actual server that shows my location may be 100's of miles away and it will appear that I am in another city or state without me even trying to disguise this.

When I post from my laptop using a Sprint or Verzion Broadband card I have found that even without trying to hide my location, it will come up as if I am in Houston, Tx. when I am actually in New Orleans.

I'm not saying that these guys were not attempting to hide who they are. From what I have read, it appears that Sam is correct in his assumptions. But sometimes apparent location information may be different without intentionally trying to hide it.





sam028 View Post
Sorry Dragon Slayer, but this forum is not a democracy where everybody can write anything, and advertising for self-promotion is not allowed ( check this post).
And trying to do this in hiding your real vendor identity is not allowed either.

So, when some suspicious threads/posts, we investigate a bit.

And when you find that:
- 714Trader, which is supposed to live in south California, posts from Oregon
- Zulutrader, whch is supposed to live in NY, post from Florida
- Dragon Slayer, whch is supposed to live in Texas, post from Florida too
- these people joined the forum and immediately posted in the day trade to win thread, and no where else
what do we think ?

Do you think we are complete idiots ?


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  #63 (permalink)
 babypowder 
Brooklyn, NY
 
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SAM,
Excellent reply a little IP check and the snake oil is revealed. I joined futures.io (formerly BMT) a little to late and coughed up 500+ for a basic breakout method. Which is free if you googled it. You can grab sharkys breakout indicator for free here. And OH GOD i cant believe I was really thinking about purchasing that piece of s**t atlas line (1,500) for a damn line. Enough ranting and more trading.

P.S Mike I will start my journal as soon as I get every component down along with trading plan. I will be using GOMLADDER, MP, PA, EMA 21 in a 5 min chart.


Happy Trading All
babypowd3r

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  #64 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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Dragon Slayer View Post
Traders like Dragon who rant and complain have no idea what he's talking about since he claims to never have purchased anything from DTTW. I haven't read anything of value with those rants, but the moderators seem to allow it as it draws in the drama. I wonder if Dragon is bashing vendors because he himself is offering and selling something? I wonder?

Ask anyone here if I am a vendor. Thanks to me and other thread starters, futures.io (formerly BMT) comes up number 2 on a google search for DTTW reviews. I don't mind if those threads bring people to futures.io (formerly BMT) rather than John Paul's snake oil. It's only a matter of time before John Paul is out of business.

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  #65 (permalink)
 sharky 
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dragon doesn't have anything to sell hes been here learning with the rest of us since day one of bmt...sharky
p.s. he just likes to rant lol

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  #66 (permalink)
 Dragon 
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sharky View Post
dragon doesn't have anything to sell hes been here learning with the rest of us since day one of bmt...sharky
p.s. he just likes to rant lol

All true.

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  #67 (permalink)
 max-td 
Frankfurt
 
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hey Dragon. the real good old Dragon i mean now !
nice to hear from you !

its not you they talk about here - have a look some posts deeper - we had another dragon these days - thats what the talk here is running about !

sorry for confusion - but it not meant you !

weapons down please !

max-td
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  #68 (permalink)
 studio88 
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Having read a few pages here of who is who, I am still trying to figure out what is what.

So this Atlas line, this is just a NT indicator that JP sells for a swag correct?

From what I have heard previously, the idea of this line is to trade in the direction of the candles, meaning, if the price action is above it, go long, if the price action is below it, stay short.

Is that what the Atlas line is for?

Are there any other alternatives out there or any other names for this so called line? or do most just agree, it does not work and it is snake oil ..from what others have said, :P ?

ps: poor Dragon also gets caught up in mistaken identiy..lol glad its cleared up.

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  #69 (permalink)
 razor99 
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My quick look at the line from the posts is that a rough estimate is it calculates an angle determined between the previous days close and the current days open. (exact parameters like does it use extended hours close or possibly hi or lo of that bar as point 1 and hi or lo close of next days opening bar is uncertain). This angle or gradient is then used to print a line staring at the 950 bar. Then there probably is an algorithm that decides whether to start the print on top of the 950 bar or below it depending on if the angle is up or down. I had a 5 day trial (wow what a deal!!) a while back (no longer offered) and the line never came into play for thiose 5 days. Asked for extension to properly evaluate it - no dice (someone may crack it?)

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  #70 (permalink)
 razor99 
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July 14 chart - the ATLAS line doen't start printing until the 850 bar, but you got a short signal before then? Also - what does the "Double Bar" mean?

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  #71 (permalink)
 Slipknot511 
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
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Posts: 176 since May 2010
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From what I've seen on the AtlasLine videos, there are three setups... 1) a bounce off the line, 2) a trade through the line, 3) a reversal at the line. So it's not as simple as people are suggesting.
I have no idea what the rules are. JP seems to have a good way keeping them secret. They are not published anywhere. You have a 1-on-1 with him where he explains the rules. Good model for keeping it a secret.
Other than that, I have compared the clone with the videos he posts, and the lines are exact. So, it's only a matter of finding what the rules are to accurately determine if this thing even works, or will be robust. The probability is not in favor of it remaining profitable long-term, if it is even profitable now.
The difference between a winning system and losing one is often as small as 50% vs. 65%. It's really easy to fudge that small of a difference when marketing a product. With the 1.5:1 risk:reward, this system needs to be 70% just to break even.

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  #72 (permalink)
 cjsiding 
WA,USA
 
Experience: Beginner
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Razor, the double bar long means 2 closes above the line, double bar short means 2 closes below atlas line.

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  #73 (permalink)
 djpl8 
Chesapeake
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
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From personal experience and common sense leave day trade to win alone. Unless you like to give money away.

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  #74 (permalink)
 emini_Holy_Grail 
Dallas,TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, OpenQuant
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can someone pl explain how do we really trade off this ORB?
and if possible, link to current ORB indictaor

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  #75 (permalink)
 YulinYao 
Washington Crossing, PA
 
Experience: Beginner
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Hi:

! am an elite member. Please tell me how to make an Atlas line of my own?

Thank you.

Yulin

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  #76 (permalink)
 Slipknot511 
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
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emini_Holy_Grail View Post
can someone pl explain how do we really trade off this ORB?
and if possible, link to current ORB indictaor

In my experience, it takes more than just an indicator or a set of rules. Price reacts to the opening range, but in different ways. One day it may act as support or resistance, then next day it may breakout. A third day, it may be completely irrelevant. You need to be able to read the market and price action to determine how to trade it.

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  #77 (permalink)
bigkahuna
USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Aug 2010
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First, I want to preface this by saying this is NOT a post to bash anyone. It’s just my personal experience and opinion with DTW and John Paul. Yours may vary.

I have been trying to make the DTW methodologies work for me for more than a year now (don't laugh).

To begin with, I, like so many other frustrated traders, was attracted to DTW because of its simplicity. It seems like most DTW clients stumble upon the DTW website because they are newbs or they had purchased one of the many day trading scam systems on the Internet and were not having the success they thought they’d have. The DTW methods are very easy to understand and follow, making them ideal for less experienced traders looking for a system. At only $600 and a money back guarantee, they figure, “What do I have to lose?” If they purchase and begin using the ATO method during a good week or month, they say to themselves, “This is what I’ve been looking for.” They may even post their feedback or video on the DTW website saying how great the system is. Many of the testimonials used on the DTW website are from traders who had purchased the system and had instant success with it. Then, inevitably, the worm turns and they have a bad few weeks or months. Those 5/6 point stop outs really begin to add up and decimate their accounts!! Especially when they happen twice in one day. Like last week, Aug 4th and 6th. Brutal.

My theory is that many traders simply give up and decide to move on to look for another methodology. I assume that’s why there are very few (if any) posts on the DTW site forum from anyone who has been trading these methods successfully for more than a year. I’m NOT saying it can’t be done, but you need to be trading a heck of a lot more than 2 or 3 contracts to make a living using the ATO method. JP trades 20 contracts. But he can afford to. The DTW website says that it has sold “thousands” of ATO courses. Do the math people! We are talking millionaire here. God bless America!!

Add to that the $180,000 (300 courses @ $600 per course) he took in from the sale of his Trade Scalper course he offered for the first time a few months ago, and the $1,800 a pop Atlas Line he sells and you can see why JP can more than afford to trade 20 contracts. Heck, he can trade zero contracts and still make more money in one year than most of us combined will make. Can you afford to trade even 10 contracts?

JP offers a mentorship program for the bargan basement price of only $6,000 (used to be 8 grand I believe). I have no experience with this so I can't comment on it. I do know that he provides you with a laptop pre-loaded with all his price action indicators including the AL. I believe the program lasts aboout 6 weeks during which time you will meet with him over the phone for one hour 3 times each weeek. That breaks down to $333/hr he is charging. Sounds like a lot of money to me but I have no idea what other mentors charge so again I can't comment on it.

I’ve had minimal, sporadic success at best using ATO. I am not a 100% believer in his Chase the Trade method. I’ve actually had some success using the original scalping method that also comes with the ATO eBook and have had limited success using the Trade Scalper and X5 trading methods both of which he just released (as stated above) a few months ago. Yes, I've dished out some coin to John Paul. Anyone laughing yet?

What about the Atlas Line you may ask. The jury is still out on that one but I'm reserving total judgement until I've used it for a few more months. The one thing I have found ironic about it is this; If you plot a line in the opposite direction to the AL using the same degree of angle, you can come up with a similar (albeit opposite) narrative. “Price crossed here and continued in that direction,” “price bounced off the line here,” etc. Try it and come up with your own narrative. Then again, maybe I just have too much time on my hands. LOL

Posting his daily ATO results with his exact entries, exits, stops, and re-entry prices would go very long way in convincing those of us who have bought (literally) into his methods that he is legit. Otherwise, it just looks like window dressing. He stopped posting his results on the DTW website a few months ago because he had been getting too much heat from disgruntled customers who realized he was skewing the results as other posters have mentioned. He also recently began filtering people's posts on the DTW site forum which is a HUGE red flag in my book.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

Best of luck to everyone


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  #78 (permalink)
 shodson 
Quantoholic
OC, California, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB/TWS, NinjaTrader, ToS
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bigkahuna View Post
First, I want to preface this by saying this is NOT a post to bash anyone. It’s just my personal experience and opinion with DTW and John Paul. Yours may vary.

I have been trying to make the DTW methodologies work for me for more than a year now (don't laugh).

BK,

Thanks for your post. It takes courage to post something like that when you're opening yourself up to people that might ridicule you for being a member of DTW.

I've never paid more than $1K for anything in trading, except for bad trades toward my tuition and a lifetime license of Ninjatrader

However, the only exception was the $2500 I paid for a 3-day course on options trading from Optionetics in 2007. Looking back I could have learned what I learned from them for free on the OIC website or CBOE's educational website, but the most valuable education I received is that I learned how little I knew about the markets. It was a very Platonic moment in my journey.

I used to follow David Marsh at eminitradingstrategies.com and came really close to dropping $2.5K on his stuff some time ago but realized from some others that invested in his stuff to not bother with it and they gave me all of his materials that they paid for. It was trash to them.

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  #79 (permalink)
 Blash 
Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
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Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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djpl8 View Post
I bought the daytradetowin system on a lark. It is a range break-out system and you will lose your a$$ in the long run. Should be called the snake oil daytradetowin system. The Atlas line is more smoke up your behind to take your money! There is no short cut to profits. Study, study, study and study some more to be profitable. In the end this is the only way to become successful in this business.


Hear, hear.

Ron


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