Marketing and affiliations get slicker as people get more aware. Anything like this, preys on the hopes and fears of beginning traders. It is a violation of trust. But you cant prosecute anyone for being slick.
You can, of course, be very diligent. I emailed Tessearct, asking them their position sizing and trade management philosophy, the reply I got back was so laughable that it went into my trash bin.
But the reaction of a newbie wouldn't be the same. This whole thing reeks. Unless any such trial is either free or an immaterial expense to one's trading business, then, "for god's sake - please don't do it" rule applies
In every performance activity in the world, from school to business, verified performance data and full transparency is s must. We as traders have every right to full transparency, and we will never get it as long as we don't demand it.
I have no clue whether the others on this list as legit or not, but if that little voice in the back of our head says "be careful". Listen to it. My personal slant is, treat everything as scam unless they prove it to me. Its my money and career on the line. Not theirs.
Sorry Brian, I figured you weren't doing that anyway. It's a delicate balance to say that, while evolving as traders we must be open new robust ideas and thoughts that have stood up to scrutiny but its also seductively easy to get sidetracked into dubious material.
This often takes up a lot of my time, I give every vendor/trader/idea an opportunity to show whether they have something valuable to offer that is based on common sense. But the moment people get vague, defensive, offended or unprofessional its a dead give-away to be careful.
I think this also relates back to saying that while one should never change one's charts and all that, but once you have established robustness, it is every pro's job to probe for new ideas to enhance business profitability. To simply say that, one will never change one charts is bit parochial. If that was the case, I would have never found order flow......I am thankful I did
As one Mr Bruce Lee said.....Be like Water, my friend.
I thought since his article was published in Futures Truth, that might have given him a bit of credibility... perhaps not... is there a general caution in this community about FT information/publications? (I confess, I didn't do a search...)
Edit: Ahhhh... now I get it! I missed the JD title after his name... that gives him skill and license to mislead...
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So many of those magazines , whether print or email electronic form have ads and even articles by dubious vendors.
Like "moneyshow", "marketauthority", SFO, many others, and even that publication by now defunct and sham PFGBest at one point. Mostly in my email junk pile now. Maybe once in a while some tech analysis formula and/or coding by some Ph.D. on "Stocks and Commodities" magazine may be worth a look, but I had canceled my S&C subscription over a year now. Or was that a free multi-issue subscription from some promotion or another(?) , can't remember.
@Dagonet, I am currently finishing off William Gallacher's "Winner Take All". Along with Peter Brandt's "Dairy of a Professional Commodity Trader", this is easily one of the most valuable books in Trading I have ever read. In it, Gallacher rips apart the industry for its duplicity and lack of integrity. He rips apart several traders, industry figures, publications, pundits and so-called analysts. This includes Futures Truth.
He doesn't stop there, he goes on a rampage against trading systems and pedantic trading approaches that treat trading as theory. It is a glorious book in my opinion, an absolute must read that reveals why every who tries to sell or peddle must be treated with extreme prejudice. The whole subject of technical analysis as a science is held to question (rightly so).
He doesn't takes prisoners against Elliot Wave types, Gann types, Fibbers, etc etc.... chartists, data miners, statistical stuff etx etc.
While Peter's dairy is a message of why trading must involve simplicity and large RR, William's book is about questioning all of technical analysis as a science (so as to say that TA by itself is naked and fragile without some sort of holistic fundamental view or context).
Either way, these are not books of theory - these are books of raw experience, of blood and sweat and of failures and scars. These are books by men of action - and their message is provocative. They should be, in my opinion, essential reading. I wish I had found these books earlier.
Both of them, inevitably, and without surprise focus on the same essence of trading - context, simplicity, money management, robustness and survivability.
Even though I use Elliot Wave Isolation as a basis of my own trading, I fully concur with Gallacher about the fallibility of theoretical matter, no matter how good it may be. Only by trying to break everything does one get anywhere workable...."constant stress testing".
This Futures Truth business is insidious, you can put science or scientific sounding stuff to any garbage and and be taken seriously. Junk science rules! Cutting through the bullshit helps. Our first question to anything and everything trading should be...."tell me about the ways this can fail, then let me be the judge of whether I can live with its failures". Anything else, is fragile.
Hi Deucalion... nice to see you posting again... I enjoy your thoughts & perspective...
I stumbled upon Peter Brandt several months ago for some reason... the problem I have with him - admittedly not having read his book but rather having perused it on Amazon - is his website. Perhaps the "stunning fact" of the 18 year compounded average annual returns of 41.6% supported by an audit is true. Or "Put another way: The auditors calculated that, based on Peter's actual performance, each $1,000 of initial capital returned $334,817 during those 18 years".
Yet in item #6 in his book introduction, he says "I have absolutely no desire in this book to show how I can turn a small fortune into a large one."
Really? $1,000 turns into $334,817 is not a small fortune turned into a large one? Oh, and you can learn how to do that for the small sum of $6,900 (after a generous $1,000 discount) by attending his Trader's Boot Camp.
But the unpardonable sin (for you, I thought): he quotes Robert Prechter on his "about" website page!
Perhaps he's the real deal. Just seems a bit disingenuous to me...
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First -
In his book, while he was trading and recording the diary, he made 9.6%, not his compounded rate that you throw out...refer page 245.
2nd of all, If I was a noob, I would gladly pay tuition to a known quantity like him to accelerate my learning curve. Instead of stumbling through the dark trying out every possible thing on the planet and blowing out 4 accounts in the process (and far more money than I would have paid him in the process). I have always maintained a credible teacher goes a long way in any craft. Why is trading different?
3rd of all, A guy that makes this amount of money with such a low win rate understands the power of position sizing and compounding - something 99% of hotshots don't. This needs to be applauded, not scoffed at.
4th of all, ...quotes Precther? I must have missed that, because I didn't see that on that page. Anyway, if you want to hold that against him, that's ok. It doesn't make him him a villain.
Disingenuous? I thought he was being modest about not bragging his record, and being one of the few to have verified his trading. That gives him credibility, no?
Perhaps he is the real deal? Are you suggesting his 18year record is fake? No, don't answer that! We already know the answer to that.
I fear I have offended you, which was the farthest thing from my mind. I’ll reiterate that I appreciate your posts & opinions, and did not intend to be a harsh audience. If anything, I was following your advice that I’ve seen in previous posts: question everything, including my (meaning your) comments.
The rate I “throw out” is what is posted on his website. I realize his book/diary results are different. I re-reading my comment, I realize it wasn’t clear.
I agree.
I agree
Well, that was mostly in jest since you refer to Prechter as a blow hard, who has destroyed EW with dogmatic stubbornness (I agree with you on that one also). I found it interesting that Brandt posts a Prechter quote prominently beside his (Brandt’s) photograph which says: “..when I wasn’t at the top, the #1 guy was usually Peter Brandt” Just follow the link I already provided & you’ll see it.
What I think is disingenuous is:
1. Brandt’s book saying “I have absolutely no desire in this book to show how I can turn a small fortune into a large one." , then
2. Brandt’s website advertising “…this stunning fact…” about his record: “The auditors calculated that, based on Peter's actual performance, each $1,000 of initial capital returned $334,817 during those 18 years.”
No, I’m not suggesting it. I have no idea, and I’ve done no research. But in response to your remark, I’d simply say neither do I think we already know the answer to that. Didn’t we find out through WorldCom, Enron, and others that audited results can be fabricated? Inaccurate? Deceptive? Didn’t Madoff teach us a lot about misrepresentations?
Indeed. If you find value in his book, if his methods improve your trading skills, I think that's great. If you pay his tuition and attend his Boot Camp, maybe you will reach the next level in your trading success, and I would wish you well. And I make these remarks with sincerity, lest you think I'm the one being disingenuous.
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Been looking into Dr. Handley and question why he would recommend a room that has 35 losing months and one winning month in the last 4 years, according to data from collective2
GB
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Posts like the previous one are a valuable window into human behavior.
I couldn't tell you how many private messages I have received from newbies telling me that they read all the vendor critiques on some thread by me and paid three grand for the 'suite' anyway. Dean has been sufficiently discredited but others feel the need to look into it and reiterate a forgone conclusion anyway.
I am beginning to think that the entire Vendor reviews section is a major source of revenue for the vendors, regardless of the reviews. All you have to do is create the thread and keep it on pg. 1 through a fake login and a slightly relevant comment.
Rather sad to see...
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Wow, I did not know he was banned. Glad to find out because I have communicated with him quite a bit and even checked out some of his recommendations - without success.
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Ok, looks like Dr. Dean Handley came up with a new updated list of top trading rooms in January (published March?) of this year
in the article "Trading Futures Successfully: Humans vs. Robots", Issue #1/2014
But just secondhand references to the original in other articles when doing a web search.
Other trading rooms/sites referencing the March Futures Truth article: ( so looks like three sites are referred to on the list here. )
I recognize what I am going to say will have me split and filleted in short order by those with far more futures.io (formerly BMT) cred than my meager standing. However, I feel like this needs to be said, and specifically in this thread.
There comes a point, when carrying around a healthy dose of skepticism, that people in search of objectivity can never achieve it. Because all vendors are evil. Because anyone suggesting anything outside a certain myopic view is charlatan out to steal our hard earned money. From my experience, the above is mostly true when it comes to vendors and trading educators.
The problem I see when painting broadly with the "snake-oil salesman" brush is that you might actually miss that %1 or less chance of something legit. I've read all Dean's recent articles and consulted with him twice. He's a decent guy and he's not lying about what he thinks is credible futures trading rooms. I don't know if he has a deal with all of the rooms he puts forward as profitable.
Having actually joined on a trial basis some of the rooms Dean writes about, I have not found anything he wrote to be a lie. Reven Wood hammers home the need to sim trade. He hammers home the need to have a trade journal. The calls in his room happen in advance and his records are factual for the time I have watched him. He has plenty of losing trades. I am not suggesting people need his service to succeed, but he's no scoundrel as far as I can tell.
Dean told me how it was in Reven's room. It was that way. He told me how he analyzed Reven's approach and decided he was getting in to early, and he should wait for pull backs to improve results. It was true as far as I can see. Dean told me you could pretty much skip any of Reven's longs AM/PM. Or, take only the AMs on a X pullback.
Dean may lack some online advertising etiquette. Perhaps he doesn't realize how some of that spammy type e-mail is interpreted. He's an author so I guess he wants to promote the articles he's written....*shrug*. He's not a personal friend of mine, neither is Reven Wood.
I'm just not sure the dog pile of negativity does anyone any good. I actually think it's not an accurate assessment of what Dean is doing, but that is solely my opinion. He may very well have earned this enmity. I don't know. He's been more than fair to me.
Regards,
Josh.
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Talked to Dr. Dean a couple of times. Tried out three of the rooms that he highly recommended. I can't believe he actually spent the time in those rooms that he claimed. All three were junk. One was an out and out rip off. I won't run Dr. Dean down, but I'd say do what he suggests. Don't bother with a room that does not have a lengthy free trial. Don't bother with a room that does not show/call trades in advance with stop placement also specifically called out. Don't believe ANY "results" that the site claims, only believe what you see in the room. One site that Dr. Dean recommended listed great results over the past several years. When I attended the room the actual results in the room were very poor, but every day the moderator "claimed" that he was having great success off-line, trading the system. Let's get real. If he can't trade the system in front of you where you can see it working, he can't trade it off line. You have to accept the fact that 95% of trading rooms/trading systems are not consistently profitable. They exist to take your money. Buyer beware.
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I just find out from one of my fellow traders that to be endorsed as Titan bu Dean handley cost 600 USD and then 200 usd per month.
This just explained how some of his Titans I know just did not respect the rule of having real trades log (like Eminivolume trader and TraderShark) and at least one that have all the conditions required (I was in the room when surveilled by Dean) was not included because the owner wasn't willing to pay this amount.
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Unsolicited? This in itself is actually quite an alarm bell, I think?
It's kind of curious to receive spam email from someone with "PhD, MBA, JD" after his name? Maybe I'm very skeptical, but I'm instinctively wondering why someone who spent all that time at college needs to build his business through sending out junk-email?
Dr.Dean was in a trade room that I frequented recently, I didn't feel like he was totally sincere. Actually none of the trade rooms that I frequented feel totally honest. They hide their PnL until they get a green day but man when they do get a green day, the PnL is flaunted like no tommorow.
Anyways I do feel that following Dr.Dean will help you avoid some of the crap rooms.
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Trader, in the room. This is interesting why would you ask me that? It seems that this is just a negative sounding board against Alex. Alex has been a huge help to me and all of these comments are biased to the negative. Is Puretick a competitor of …
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Dean Handley rates all the trading rooms that he can find. He is not a good enough trader himself to do this. The only criteria for him that is a help to us, is whether they are transparent. If they show their trades in broad daylight, they will get good reviews. I looked at his top 2 picks out of over 1,000 trading rooms, and they weren't very good traders.
The very best room made 144 tics per day average trading somewhere around six hours. That isn't as good as my friends do. Some of the vendors that he gave bad reviews are good ones in my opinion. I think Handley should go back to his original day job and get out of the trading industry. He really doesn't know the business in my opinion. There are a lot of false prophets in trading.
-The Duck-
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Dr. Dean Handley is so proud of his diplomas and affiliations of the past, but I'm certain this isn't one of them. When working for Sepracor, Dean Handley willfully made false and misleading statements about the results of tests and trial results of a drug called Soltara, which Sepracor was seeking FDA approval. Effectively, Handley was saying the drug was safe from certain harmful side effects when in fact it wasn't. His goal was, in essence, to give credibility to the stock market so Sepracor's stock price would rise, thereby making it easier for the company to raise additional capital from the financial markets.
You can read the story in this legal document below and draw your own conclusions. Note that Dr. Dean Handley and other executives who perpetrated this scheme were fired after this fiasco. I find it very sad that Dr. Dean Handley would put his financial interests in the form of stock options and bonuses ahead of the public's safety. That explains his propensity to defraud the public again with his Trading Titans "pay for play" business model for sleazy trading room vendors who want to get exposure from this so-called international expert.
Reliable sources have informed me the media publication for Dr. Dean Handley's bogus room reviews, Futures Truth Magazine, is no longer going to publish his articles any longer. I, for one, am not surprised but wonder what took them so long to make this decision.
Although not a widely followed magazine, I felt Futures Truth had integrity and believed in accuracy of it's content. All that was put in question when they allowed Dr. Dean Handley to publish. Perhaps they swallowed too much of the Kool aid and hype that Handley propagated with his numerous diplomas. My guess is they learned of his nefarious actions from this thread and decided the taint and guilt by association didn't jive with their long standing principles. Whatever the reason, it's a good thing they pulled the plug. Better late than never as the saying goes.
I communicated with him personally regarding George Mahshigian scams after reading his evaluation and praise for this scammer and was shocked when he claimed that this scammer's strategies are great even though I offered to show him my real money losses!!!!
not bashing but anyone who goes by "Dr." doesn't impress me....what impresses me is someone who never finished high school and worked their way up at the NYMEX or CME as a runner/clerk/trader...from the floor to the desk.
-those guys are a forgotten breed in character, integrity....and fist fights on the floor and train!
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In the world of Play for Pay the trader who complains is an anomaly and responsible for his losses because he didn't do things 100% as prescribed the vendor. This is to move the blame from the vendor to the trader. It's an old trick from the scam playbook. As long as the vendors pay Dr. Dean Handley their monthly vigorish, they retain the Titan status regardless of the real time performance, which invariably sucks.
At peak, Handley had 14 paying vendors for his recommendations; now he has 10. Why? Four realized they weren't receiving a positive return in terms of new subscribers from Handley's poor marketing effort, so they dropped out. The reason Dr. Dean Handley states why he deleted those rooms from the list is 100% happy horseshit. The truth is they stopped paying the monthly extortion fee.
Futures Truth may no longer publish DH attacks because they received the depositions and other filings in the lawsuit
that Puretick filed.
Handley did get a law degree, but it was online and he failed the Bar Exam.
Futuers Truth, amazingly they could not figure it out, probably saw the deposition part where Handley announced under oath that he reviewed 900 trading rooms in 5 years.
He stated that he did not have a staff but personally reviewed each room thoroughly.
The lawyer asked if he thought it fair to review a room for a day or two.
Handley boasted that he stayed for 3 months in each room taking each trade.
The lawyer got out his calculator and asked if Handley agreed that it would take over 200 years to review 900 rooms.
LOL
Handley then adjusted his analysis to say he did 4 rooms at once. (To me it would seem hard to take trades if they might be conflicting and how do you listen to 4 room moderators blabbing at once)?
The lawyer said still it would take 50 years. Even Al Gore was not inventing the internet then, haha.
All Handley could say was "Whatever."
Note: I did not read the testimony but a trusted friend who did assured me that the court deposition as recorded by a stenographer was accurate.
Amazing.
My guess is the stress of lawsuits and online bickering was one of the reasons Puretick was taken over by Marketdancer.
In my opinion the best way to make money in the futures market with zero risk is to open a trading room.
On the other hand if you call trades and half a few dozen people watching you fail of succeed would add too much pressure to an already stressful situation.
In my career, I had enough stress with fellow floor traders with bad breath screaming in my ear.
It's not about honestly or integrity, it's about pay for play. In this case Mr. Mahshigian--who has by his own admission blown out scores of live trading accounts--pay's a monthly fee to Dr. Handley for advertising and promotion to rope in novices looking for quick riches. Both are thieves with no moral compass; they live to steal other peoples money with impunity. That's the nicest way I can say it.
The world turns slowly. Futures Truth finally began to publish articles by Alex Wasilewski, the guy Handley tried to bash, and extort money and who was finally destroyed in Federal Court.
Wasilewski, a former award winning NY cop, who was well known for fighting corruption in Suffolk County NY politics, apparently was the only one to stand up to Handley and sued him.
The depositions filed made Handley seem like a buffoon; especially when the lawyer asked Handley how he could spend 3 months each in 997 trading rooms.
He asked "were you in George Washington's S+P alert room?" LOL
What surprised me is that no one could figure that out from the general public. It did not matter about Sepracor or anything else.
I have not trading now, so I am selling them.
PM if you are interested in the bots with the strategy backtester that cost extra within the bots program. (full version)
