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List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded


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List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded

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  #101 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
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zcui View Post
so I need another breakeven day

This is red flag and they will see it.
Also in Q/A session CEO told that trade it like you always trade.

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  #102 (permalink)
johnsontroy8
miami/usa
 
 
Posts: 14 since Jul 2014
Thanks: 2 given, 8 received

If you fail the first time. Do you have to pay for the second attempt?

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  #103 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
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johnsontroy8 View Post
If you fail the first time. Do you have to pay for the second attempt?

If you mean LTP then you will get complimentary COMBINE.

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  #104 (permalink)
johnsontroy8
miami/usa
 
 
Posts: 14 since Jul 2014
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lemons View Post
If you mean LTP then you will get complimentary COMBINE.


thank you will send them an email

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  #105 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,825 given, 2,259 received

First 10 days LIVE trading passed. I have built comfortable account size.
With little luck on my side I will have successful trading career in front of me.



Funded Trader Rules ? Help & Feedback Center

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  #106 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
Experience: None
 
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Posts: 3,163 since Mar 2010
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lemons View Post
First 10 days LIVE trading passed. I have built comfortable account size.
With little luck on my side I will have successful trading career in front of me.



Funded Trader Rules ? Help & Feedback Center


Well done.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #107 (permalink)
 vchase 
London
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: silver,SI,YI,ZI, ES,EURUSD
 
Posts: 44 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 13 given, 16 received

How many people have collected a steady income over say at least six months on this system? Two, dozens, more?

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  #108 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
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vchase View Post
How many people have collected a steady income over say at least six months on this system? Two, dozens, more?

I tell what CEO of TST answered today to the appox. same question.
Its hard to make it live, it takes work. ca. 10 % people will make it.
And its not important how many made it.

Question is what YOU have to do to make it ?
What it takes to make consistently money ?

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  #109 (permalink)
 spideysteve 
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker: Continuum
Trading: ZN, ES
 
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Posts: 153 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 360 given, 169 received

For all who have gone through the Combine ..

Was it worth the time and effort?

Did you do it just to be funded (ie, not use your own $ live)?

Did you do it to get practice/experience?

Would you do it again?

Did you do continuous or 10-day?

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  #110 (permalink)
DrewDown
Kansas City, MO U.S.
 
 
Posts: 211 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 301 given, 122 received

I did a continuous, which I ended up restarting. Slowly narrowed down my focus to one market, the ES. About to start a 10 day tomorrow. I would recommend the 10 day. Go in with a plan. I intend to get funded, but were I not doing this to get better, there wouldn't be much use in my doing it.

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  #111 (permalink)
 TickedOff 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader with Jigsaw DOM
Trading: CL, 6E, ES, Piano
 
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Posts: 264 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 229 given, 241 received

Passed my combine, after many, many months of sim and many other failed combines. Starting FTP on Monday - pass or no this is a big milestone for me.



I started to make a lot of progress when I realized it was my psychology, the mental state I had during trading, that was pretty much the main factor determining my profits. I became aware of this concept from reading Dr. Steenbarger's 'the daily trading coach'. Over time it became very apparent as my big losing days I was very emotional and fixated on pl, and my best days I was focused on market movement and more relaxed. Attempts at strategy improvement did not seem to be yielding any results, I knew I needed to trade less, let profits run, I continued developing insights into markets and how they move etc but self sabotage always got in the way.

I want to be more consistent in my results, I had two large losing days that I think were completely avoidable and happened because I lost my mindfulness. That being said I have gained a lot of control over my trading state compared to when I first started. Fomo has been my biggest issue, but being mindful of any tension and anxiety, really feeling my emotions and acknowledging negative thoughts makes it difficult for my inner monkey to take over. I also know my triggers - slow choppy markets can cause me to be impatient and force trades, trading losses or mistakes like missing trades will push me to become undercontrolled and having large profits on the day can mean I lose focus, sometimes I may become fearful of losing and other times I might then not respect risk. My mental prep helps with my state too. Before market analysis and trading I remind myself my no. job as a trader is to watch the markets (anyone can put on a trade), I don't have to be perfect (has been deeply rooted in my subconscious leading to pl fixation and the need to catch every move), that PL is irrelevant, whether Im up or down doesn't matter what matters is where my next edge is at, and finally, and that I need to stay focused and never become complacent or overconfident with success. Paraphrasing Carol Dweck (author of 'Mindset') when very successful its easy to forget that its the processes you did that brought you your success, not you yourself. So if you stop following the processes you get in trouble.

Got to the root of my fomo the weekend before I passed, bit of a long story, but since then a lot of the pressure during trading and apprehension before it has simply vanished and I am more relaxed and focused now, I'm quite interested to see how I perform during FTP.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #112 (permalink)
 SpyderTrader 
Chicago, Illinois
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Esignal
Trading: ES, NQ, Crude
 
Posts: 120 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 12 given, 223 received


TickedOff View Post
Passed my combine, after many, many months of sim and many other failed combines. Starting FTP on Monday - pass or no this is a big milestone for me.

How would you rate these guys customer service?
In terms of staying in touch, evaluating your progress, and so on?

Around 5% move the market. 10% try to follow the 5%. The rest provide liquidity.
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  #113 (permalink)
 TickedOff 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader with Jigsaw DOM
Trading: CL, 6E, ES, Piano
 
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Posts: 264 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 229 given, 241 received


SpyderTrader View Post
How would you rate these guys customer service?
In terms of staying in touch, evaluating your progress, and so on?

I didnt get any specific advice on my trading approach, any questions I have asked have received prompt responses.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #114 (permalink)
 TickedOff 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader with Jigsaw DOM
Trading: CL, 6E, ES, Piano
 
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Posts: 264 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 229 given, 241 received

I did not pass the ftp - broke my max loss limit. I had my large losing days again, especially during the second week (i.e. this week) where there was a lot of chop and I forced trades. As a result I have extensively written out and defined every trade setup - if its a countertrend or trend trade and also my confidence in the setup. I wrote down all the discretionary hints that tip me off as to market strength and weakness. Prior to this I have had some trades defined but a lot of it is kind of me just "reading" the market not quite consciously sure of what Im doing, it leaves a lot of subjectivity. The idea was to put down everything I have learned and floating around in my subconscious and commit it to memory and become conscious of it. My thinking is, if I can define all my valid reasons for getting into a trade and commit them to memory, it will be a lot easier for me to notice myself putting out impulsive trades and also help me stay out of the market when there isnt opportunity. A lot of times I will sort of put on a trade on the smallest signal or talk myself into doing something. I see nuances in everything, which has been great because it has lead me to picking up a lot of discretionary reads in the market but it also can work against me if I overthink. If I know clearly what is opportunity and what isnt, then I can sit in the sidelines and be happy. I will also try journaling again. I stopped it for a while because writing all my entries, exits, stops, and feelings during teh trade took up a lot of time and I trade actively. I have abbreviated all my trade setups so for trade entry reasons that should at least save time. I am feeling optimistic and looking forward to my next combine. Its good that I am learning all this trading sim and not live.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #115 (permalink)
 TickedOff 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader with Jigsaw DOM
Trading: CL, 6E, ES, Piano
 
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Posts: 264 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 229 given, 241 received

Ok so my trade report says I have adhered to all rules, I emailed support to see what this means because Im pretty sure I did exceed the trailing drawdown by a small amount, they said that if the status changes I will be alerted very quickly, so I think I am still in this for now. I don't wanna take up too much room in this thread so my next post will be if I pass FTP.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #116 (permalink)
 saints51 
Louisiana
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: DDT/TT
Trading: ES,6E,DX,6A,CL
 
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Posts: 22 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 70 given, 16 received

Does your company have a ticker symbol so I can invest into it. This is the best ponzi scam I have ever seen. Let people pay the company to weed themselves out while you control the tiers for advancement, stringing along the next poor sap who thinks he will be a millionaire......Brilliant!!!!!!!!!

I am sure you will come on this thread and say we have skin in the game blah blah blah. Bull poo. Anybody who supports this type of company is part of the scheme. There is plenty of great advice from a whole bunch of members to learn how to trade. So many people want to help and for free. Ironic isn't it but people feel if they pay for something they expect results...lol. Not in this biz.

Whats even more stunning, you can use Ninjatrader and other platforms for free while in demo. Yep, for free. You can even fund an account and stay in demo forever if you like with full function of the platform.Shocking right!!!!!!

Quit making others rich.

Key Points to remember-

1. this company uses your money to evaluate yourself..LMAO!!!!!
2. Controls your advancement for a funded account even though you paid them
3. Changes the rules from Combine to funded account - think about this one very hard. Why not make the rules the same. I know I would teach you the right way the first time if you traded for me. The ground rules would have never changed. So ask yourself why do they change them? Here is a hint - to control advancement due to under capitalization meaning they need more fools to pay them. They have no skin in the game. They are fooling you and laughing all the way to the bank. When they do find a trader who is too poor to be trading their own account but is good, that is who they fund and will rape and pillage that poor guy. That guy pays the commissions and date feed fees. Not them. So what skin do they have in the game.

I am sorry if I rub some of you wrong but enough is enough with these types of businesses. We need to stand against this garbage. This is someone trying to steal money from all of you. There is plenty of great advice free of charge or just a small donation one time on this forum. There are others that will help you for free. Good people do exist.

Here is a challenge to Top Step. They refuse it then you know the answer. Here is the Challenge:

Allow traders to use your combine free of charge where no credit card is needed for signup. You pay all data feed fees and commissions can be split when funded. The trader should not have to pay a dime to showcase their talent. If you can not offer this then I say to the community- Here is your sign.

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  #117 (permalink)
 spideysteve 
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker: Continuum
Trading: ZN, ES
 
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Posts: 153 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 360 given, 169 received


saints51 View Post
When they do find a trader who is too poor to be trading their own account but is good, that is who they fund and will rape and pillage that poor guy. That guy pays the commissions and date feed fees. Not them. So what skin do they have in the game.

I'm in no way disputing what you said since you've made some good points.

However, what about this guy who doesn't have the funds to open an account? For example, a person comes to futures.io (formerly BMT) (or other forum) and says "hey everyone here's my trade results for the last 6 months on demo but at the moment I just don't have any cash because of {divorce/bankruptcy/just plain don't have $/insert other reason here} so will someone stake me" ... who is going to put up $5k or more to stake this guy? Anyone on here? And if they do stake the guy, who is paying the expenses? The person putting up the stake or the person making the trades? And, if the person is successful like he proved on demo and manages to be profitable with someone else's $, isn't the person who put up the stake entitled to a chunk of the profit for taking the risk on the person?

Maybe @Big Mike could start a forum for staking/funding new traders?

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  #118 (permalink)
 saints51 
Louisiana
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: DDT/TT
Trading: ES,6E,DX,6A,CL
 
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Posts: 22 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 70 given, 16 received


spideysteve View Post
I'm in no way disputing what you said since you've made some good points.

However, what about this guy who doesn't have the funds to open an account? For example, a person comes to futures.io (formerly BMT) (or other forum) and says "hey everyone here's my trade results for the last 6 months on demo but at the moment I just don't have any cash because of {divorce/bankruptcy/just plain don't have $/insert other reason here} so will someone stake me" ... who is going to put up $5k or more to stake this guy? Anyone on here? And if they do stake the guy, who is paying the expenses? The person putting up the stake or the person making the trades? And, if the person is successful like he proved on demo and manages to be profitable with someone else's $, isn't the person who put up the stake entitled to a chunk of the profit for taking the risk on the person?

Maybe @Big Mike could start a forum for staking/funding new traders?

Well lets think about Topstep's math. Say 100 people sign up at $100 dollars. They have certain tiers where they charge a minimum of 2 months and subscription is monthly until funded. They also try to say it is refundable if funded or say you do not have to pay anymore while in the COMBINE. See they just used your own money by making you think it is rolling over to keep you without it being funded. So 100 people at $100 one time fee for the sake of this example. Thats what 10k total. Out of those 100 people they only fund 1 person and say he can only have a 10k account and that trader pays commissions and data feed fees. They have no skin in game. They will not lose a dime. Then when funded you have a 10k account and you must make 1k a month. That is a 10% return. Goldman Sachs would hire you.

So my answer is the guy either has to try and get a job with a firm, get a job to save money for an account or borrow the money with terms. Yes anyone who puts up money should make a return as I am a capitalist also. I despise crony capitalism which is exactly what laws in the US has encouraged with this type of business model. If you trade for my hedgefund, I do not charge an employee data feed fees or pay to learn. That is like me interviewing you and asking you to give me $100 bucks for my time even though it is my business with a job opening.

Here is the link for the combine for a 10k account with profit target. Sure looks like 10% return to me. you decide
https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/learnmore

Everything you need is on this site for likely free if not the small one time donation. I can think of a dozen traders on this site alone who could bankrupt every single one of those experts/mentors. And I don't post much on this site but can spot them. I wonder if you are a junk trader if their mentorship is free of charge since you pay monthly for combines or is that another fee?

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  #119 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,825 given, 2,259 received

Scam no.
TST goal is fund traders who meet demands. Not to collect money for Combines.

I don't know was this e-mail for only for funded traders only or not
but I hided the traders "names".


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  #120 (permalink)
 saints51 
Louisiana
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: DDT/TT
Trading: ES,6E,DX,6A,CL
 
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Posts: 22 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 70 given, 16 received


lemons View Post
Scam no.
TST goal is fund traders who meet demands. Not to collect money for Combines.

I don't know was this e-mail for only for funded traders only or not
but I hided the traders "names".


Saints51 had 100 out of 100 trades for wins in June 2015

Do you believe what I just wrote?
Do I offer proof but my forum name?
Did that email all of a sudden say it is not a scam?

Scam YES. All day everyday. Even Bernie Madoff sent checks to everyone thinking they are making money. You pay Bernie and another pays Bernie, Bernie sends you some of his money and Bernie sends some of the other guys money to you while keeping majority for Bernie. 10% return you are extremely excited i bet.

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  #121 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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Posts: 49,991 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,459 given, 98,248 received


saints51 View Post
Does your company have a ticker symbol so I can invest into it. This is the best ponzi scam I have ever seen.

This thread is only for discussion of traders that have passed (a list of passed traders).

Please use the general review/discussion thread to make a vendor review or discuss their method:



Any follow-ups regarding their business model should go in that thread.

Mike

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  #122 (permalink)
 TickedOff 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader with Jigsaw DOM
Trading: CL, 6E, ES, Piano
 
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Posts: 264 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 229 given, 241 received

Hi folks, Im now a funded trader and I have my interview today 12pm, CDT.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #123 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
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Posts: 6,444 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,894 given, 21,565 received


TickedOff View Post
Hi folks, Im now a funded trader and I have my interview today 12pm, CDT.

Good job. Glad to see you did it.

Bob.

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  #124 (permalink)
 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, NT8
Trading: NQ, CL, GC, NG, HG
 
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Posts: 154 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 89 given, 346 received


TickedOff View Post
Hi folks, Im now a funded trader and I have my interview today 12pm, CDT.

Congratulations TickedOff on your successful TST funded account status! I have been following your progress and am very happy you have finally reached your goal. Good job sir, you are an inspiration to us all.

On an aside, I have decided to go for it and make a combine attempt. I will update this forum on my progress. So far though, I have blown my combine account a few times already and am on reset #4, I believe.

Blue skies,
Ricardo



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  #125 (permalink)
 TraderFish 
Sydney, NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 26 since May 2015
Thanks: 17 given, 19 received

I too have blown a few combines/resets. However each time I do I feel like I have learned something new that will help me become the best trader I can. To me it is all about getting the hang of good risk management, which I finally seem to be getting the hang of. I feel like I am improving constantly, and even though it is frustrating to have to hit that reset button I find it very satisfying to know EXACTLY what I stuffed up so I can do my darnedest to avoid doing it again.

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  #126 (permalink)
GuyMM
miami florida
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 30 given, 47 received

I got funded and had an intraday DD of $12.00 beyond the daily max and the account was immediately terminated so no more trades were taken and the account locked. I was trading 2 contracts--the max allowed--at the time. They don't make any exceptions with respect to the rules.

After reading every post in this thread, I think it speak volumes that not a single funded trader has come forward to share anything about ANY profits earned from this business as Zondor twice requested. My takeaway is no one from this thread ever got a profit sharing check from TST. I'll go further on a limb and say that less than 5% of TST funded traders earn monthly income from this program.

I also think Saints51's analysis is a good one and accurately describes the logic behind the business model, although I don't think it's a Ponzi scheme in the classic sense. Aspiring funded traders pay for the right to validate their skills with a golden carrot hanging in front of their noses. Success at one level brings you to a new, more constrictive set of rules with a tiny contract allotment and super tight account "stop trading" throttle. In effect, with TST you'll be forever undercapitalized unless by some act of luck and God you manage to trade like Superman and build up an equity cushion, ALL BY YOURSELF. In other words, if successful, you effectively trade your own money, not theirs. And if you're not successful, but optimistic and hopeful, you come back to that funding drug known as a Combine for another shot (no pun intended.)


And to clarify matters, a TST "funded" trader really isn't trading a funded account as we know it to be. The equity sponsor is guaranteeing to backstop any losses a trader has with NinjaTrader. There is zero money sitting a customer segregated account with the traders name and tax ID. This explains why the loss leash parameters are so tightly wound around the funded trader's neck. And Ninja has the additional benefit of collecting commissions to offset account losses in the unlikely event, the equity sponsor (an affiliate of TST) lays down on the loss.

There's more to the story, but I'm sure this gives a good overview.

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  #127 (permalink)
 artemiso 
New York, NY
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Vanguard 401k
Broker: Yahoo Finance
Trading: Mutual funds
 
Posts: 1,129 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 765 given, 2,540 received


GuyMM View Post
I got funded and had an intraday DD of $12.00 beyond the daily max and the account was immediately terminated so no more trades were taken and the account locked. I was trading 2 contracts--the max allowed--at the time. They don't make any exceptions with respect to the rules.

After reading every post in this thread, I think it speak volumes that not a single funded trader has come forward to share anything about ANY profits earned from this business as Zondor twice requested. My takeaway is no one from this thread ever got a profit sharing check from TST. I'll go further on a limb and say that less than 5% of TST funded traders earn monthly income from this program.

I also think Saints51's analysis is a good one and accurately describes the logic behind the business model, although I don't think it's a Ponzi scheme in the classic sense. Aspiring funded traders pay for the right to validate their skills with a golden carrot hanging in front of their noses. Success at one level brings you to a new, more constrictive set of rules with a tiny contract allotment and super tight account "stop trading" throttle. In effect, with TST you'll be forever undercapitalized unless by some act of luck and God you manage to trade like Superman and build up an equity cushion, ALL BY YOURSELF. In other words, if successful, you effectively trade your own money, not theirs. And if you're not successful, but optimistic and hopeful, you come back to that funding drug known as a Combine for another shot (no pun intended.)


And to clarify matters, a TST "funded" trader really isn't trading a funded account as we know it to be. The equity sponsor is guaranteeing to backstop any losses a trader has with NinjaTrader. There is zero money sitting a customer segregated account with the traders name and tax ID. This explains why the loss leash parameters are so tightly wound around the funded trader's neck. And Ninja has the additional benefit of collecting commissions to offset account losses in the unlikely event, the equity sponsor (an affiliate of TST) lays down on the loss.

There's more to the story, but I'm sure this gives a good overview.

Good analysis. I don't vouch for its correctness as I have no experience with this group myself but I am very skeptical of the "pay for a chance to get funded" business model with meaningless trade constraints. This needs to be upvoted more.

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GuyMM
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I've been asked to elaborate on "there's more to the story" comment. It concerns the imbedded sim mode in TST's Rithmic data connection. I don't wish to get overly technical here, but the bottom line is TST's Rithmic simulated fill engine has little bearing to the fills one could expect in a Live account with Rithmic or any other live datafeed for that matter. This is important because it gives the unfunded trader a sense of false success and unreasonable expectations when, if ever, they get funded and trade with a live data feed. In my opinion, this is a deliberate effort by TST to inflate combine traders results, sort of like a trader on steroids.

When I was trading the combine, I had three DOM side-by-side on any particular trade; a Ninja Sim; a Ninja live; and a Rithmic sim. I was trading ES at the time with Limit orders only a few ticks away from the current price, and all orders were entered in the following sequence--Ninja Live, Ninja Sim and Rithmic Sim as fast as my finger could click the mouse. (Again, it's important to remember TST uses Rithmic only with Ninja.)

The results were consistent and noteworthy. Each and every time, the first order to get filled was Rithmic's and price never had to trade through my limit. Next was a tossup between Ninja Sim and Ninja Live. Invariably, Ninja Sim had to trade through my Limit to get a fill; on occasion, however, fills were received with Ninja Live without price trading through. There were many occurrences, when the only fill was Rithmic sim as price either couldn't push through the Limit or moved away.

Is this much ado about nothing? I think not. On the contrary, I think it's extremely important in that it gives the Rithmic Sim trader an artificial and inflated edge that will not occur in the real world of Live trading. Imagine a racehorse winning race after race with no weight in his saddlebags only to not even be in the money when those bags have an extra 140 pounds. So, what happens to our newly funded trader when his saddlebags are filled? Pre-funded Combine result's aren't matched, he doesn't meet the funded rules, he gets no payout, and he returns to the Combine to do it all over again. Or perhaps he'll opt to spend money for private tutoring with one (or more) of TST's "trading experts that will teach you how to trade the right way, assess your skills, provide feedback, and give you the edge to become a profitable trader"

Albert Einstein: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result." In the case of TST, one has to pay money for that insanity.

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 xelaar 
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GuyMM View Post
I've been asked to elaborate on "there's more to the story" comment. It concerns the imbedded sim mode in TST's Rithmic data connection. I don't wish to get overly technical here, but the bottom line is TST's Rithmic simulated fill engine has little bearing to the fills one could expect in a Live account with Rithmic or any other live datafeed for that matter. This is important because it gives the unfunded trader a sense of false success and unreasonable expectations when, if ever, they get funded and trade with a live data feed. In my opinion, this is a deliberate effort by TST to inflate combine traders results, sort of like a trader on steroids.

When I was trading the combine, I had three DOM side-by-side on any particular trade; a Ninja Sim; a Ninja live; and a Rithmic sim. I was trading ES at the time with Limit orders only a few ticks away from the current price, and all orders were entered in the following sequence--Ninja Live, Ninja Sim and Rithmic Sim as fast as my finger could click the mouse. (Again, it's important to remember TST uses Rithmic only with Ninja.)

The results were consistent and noteworthy. Each and every time, the first order to get filled was Rithmic's and price never had to trade through my limit. Next was a tossup between Ninja Sim and Ninja Live. Invariably, Ninja Sim had to trade through my Limit to get a fill; on occasion, however, fills were received with Ninja Live without price trading through. There were many occurrences, when the only fill was Rithmic sim as price either couldn't push through the Limit or moved away.

Is this much ado about nothing? I think not. On the contrary, I think it's extremely important in that it gives the Rithmic Sim trader an artificial and inflated edge that will not occur in the real world of Live trading. Imagine a racehorse winning race after race with no weight in his saddlebags only to not even be in the money when those bags have an extra 140 pounds. So, what happens to our newly funded trader when his saddlebags are filled? Pre-funded Combine result's aren't matched, he doesn't meet the funded rules, he gets no payout, and he returns to the Combine to do it all over again. Or perhaps he'll opt to spend money for private tutoring with one (or more) of TST's "trading experts that will teach you how to trade the right way, assess your skills, provide feedback, and give you the edge to become a profitable trader"

Albert Einstein: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result." In the case of TST, one has to pay money for that insanity.

In Ninja you can configure yourself how optimistic or pessimistic fills should be on your Sim. If I select a more pessimistic approach, I usually get better fills on Live account than on Sim, and that is not exaggereation. In regards to their Demo mode, I traded with them on T4 CTS feed, and their Combine Demo execution was a lunacy, it gave positive slippage on market orders in 50% of the cases, get that live. In live conditions I had situations again and again when my stop orders were rejected by the exchange, because CTS server was too slow to send them to Comex after the order was activated and OCO bracket had to be send to the exchange. I don't believe it is deliberate though and I don't believe TST has any control over it, just the way sim works. It's irrelevant for position traders but can be quite difference for scalpers and active intraday traders, and TST clearly favors those.

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 Tymbeline 
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artemiso View Post
I am very skeptical of the "pay for a chance to get funded" business model with meaningless trade constraints.

So am I, but if you look more closely, you'll discover that TST really doesn't have anything even close to that business model.

First, the trade constraints are far from meaningless (and incidentally they're actually less constraining than the ones many successful traders I know impose on themselves voluntarily, which is of course typically a highly significant part of the reason they became successful in the first place); secondly, their Combines are also far from "Pay for a chance to get funded": at "worst", you could possibly call them "Pay a returnable administrative and cost-covering fee for us to assess minimal evidence of your competence at trading safely, and either get it back if you pass or keep trying, free, indefinitely, even if you fail, as long as you don't break any of our safe-trading rules".

Respectfully, I think you're making the broad-brush mistake, above, of conflating TST with many of their inferior, would-be competitors, some (perhaps many) of whom may indeed have exactly the kind of shady business model to which you refer.

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GuyMM
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xelaar View Post
In Ninja you can configure yourself how optimistic or pessimistic fills should be on your Sim. If I select a more pessimistic approach, I usually get better fills on Live account than on Sim, and that is not exaggereation. In regards to their Demo mode, I traded with them on T4 CTS feed, and their Combine Demo execution was a lunacy, it gave positive slippage on market orders in 50% of the cases, get that live. In live conditions I had situations again and again when my stop orders were rejected by the exchange, because CTS server was too slow to send them to Comex after the order was activated and OCO bracket had to be send to the exchange. I don't believe it is deliberate though and I don't believe TST has any control over it, just the way sim works. It's irrelevant for position traders but can be quite difference for scalpers and active intraday traders, and TST clearly favors those.

Of course, in NT you can configure the fills to be quite lifelike which in 99% of the time means that price has to trade through your Limit to give you a fill.

TS with Rithmic is the opposite and, unlike NT, you have no choice how to select the fill criteria. It defaults to this going to heaven without dying quick touch fill that has the sole purpose of deluding you to think this is reality. A couple of touches and you get filled. Meanwhile everyone else who is trading Live waits in the cue to get filled.

If I'm off base here, let Mr. Patak or one of his lieutenants come here and explain why.

There's another piece to the TST business model that effectively makes it a negative expectancy venture for the cash paying Combine trader. I'll get to that later if anyone really cares.

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 spideysteve 
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GuyMM View Post

There's another piece to the TST business model that effectively makes it a negative expectancy venture for the cash paying Combine trader. I'll get to that later if anyone really cares.


Yes. Would be interested in hearing it.

The situation with limit orders would be null if the trader's strategy were using stop orders as opposed to limit. But that's a whole different topic.

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GuyMM
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Yes. Would be interested in hearing it.

The situation with limit orders would be null if the trader's strategy were using stop orders as opposed to limit. But that's a whole different topic.

That's right, but I think most futures traders are taught to use Limit orders rather than Stop or Market to avoid the slippage.

TST is a sucker's bet--a negative expectancy game--not unlike trading Futures in general. They have identified and capitalized on the greed and wishful thinking of the undercapitalized trader who is lured by a phantom 80% payout that will never materialize due to a very stacked deck of rules against the trader.

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 Upupandaway 
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iankotze View Post
I have passed the $50k combine a couple of times.

So are you a funded trader now?

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 spideysteve 
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GuyMM View Post
That's right, but I think most futures traders are taught to use Limit orders rather than Stop or Market to avoid the slippage.

TST is a sucker's bet--a negative expectancy game--not unlike trading Futures in general. They have identified and capitalized on the greed and wishful thinking of the undercapitalized trader who is lured by a phantom 80% payout that will never materialize due to a very stacked deck of rules against the trader.

I'm not disagreeing with you .. But right now it's 100% payout on your first withdrawal up to $5000!

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GuyMM
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spideysteve View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you .. But right now it's 100% payout on your first withdrawal up to $5000!

Yes, I know that. That's akin to shopping at Whole Foods for organic corn at $.25/ear only to learn it is always out of stock. And therein lies the TST hook; pay for Combines trying to win a Kewpie doll that's forever elusive.

Ever been to a carnival that has the game of spending a few dollars for 5 tries at throwing a dime inside a Coke bottle to win an oversized stuffed panda bear that's worth $1.00? Welcome to TST.

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 Upupandaway 
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addchild View Post
Passed the 30k, was not able to complete the "live combine prep", my largest 10 day losing day, was greater than my largest 10 day winning day.


Sorry

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 Upupandaway 
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iankotze View Post
I have passed the $50k combine a couple of times.

Why have you passed it a couple of times? Isn't once good enough to be a funded trader? And are you now funded?

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 xelaar 
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GuyMM View Post
Of course, in NT you can configure the fills to be quite lifelike which in 99% of the time means that price has to trade through your Limit to give you a fill.

TS with Rithmic is the opposite and, unlike NT, you have no choice how to select the fill criteria. It defaults to this going to heaven without dying quick touch fill that has the sole purpose of deluding you to think this is reality. A couple of touches and you get filled. Meanwhile everyone else who is trading Live waits in the cue to get filled.

If I'm off base here, let Mr. Patak or one of his lieutenants come here and explain why.

There's another piece to the TST business model that effectively makes it a negative expectancy venture for the cash paying Combine trader. I'll get to that later if anyone really cares.

I know what you are saying, but I believe this is not intentional. Besides, behaviour differs for different instruments. You can and will get a lot of live fills just on touch in thin markets like crude or gold.

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 xelaar 
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Yes. Would be interested in hearing it.

The situation with limit orders would be null if the trader's strategy were using stop orders as opposed to limit. But that's a whole different topic.

then there will be a situation and a discussion concerning slippage ))

I know what you are saying, guys. I passed live with a strategy that performed too well on demo due to unrealistic fills. I tested it live, on my own account, and it worked, maybe not miraculously, but it worked enough to make sense to continue this venture with it.

But I don't think this is a TST issue per se, if anything they take an extra risk due to that, if they let you pass live and give you a drawdown to burn with it, they take the heat. I think this is a matter any prudent trader shall consider and evaluate him- or herself.

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 Tymbeline 
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GuyMM View Post
If I'm off base here, let Mr. Patak or one of his lieutenants come here and explain why.

He does and they do, and very openly, but there's a specific thread for asking him/them:

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 Hoag 
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GuyMM,

Thank you for your feedback and opinions. A lot has been said, so I will do my best to cover it all.

First, in terms of your own funded account. TopstepTrader obviously has no way of knowing who you are via an anonymous thread, so we weren’t able to look into the specifics. Although every trader signs a trading agreement agreeing to the rules and that the trading firm does not have to make exceptions. What I can tell you is that we do and have made exceptions on breaking rules in the funded account, particularly loss limits. If you would like more color as to why you were not afforded that leniency, feel free to contact funding@topsteptrader.com and they will be happy to perform some due diligence and give you a clear answer as to why the trading firm wasn’t comfortable with you moving forward.

Second, your comment “I think it speaks volumes that not a single funded trader has come forward to share anything about ANY profits earned” is something we have zero control over. I wish every trader who earned profits through us screamed it from the rooftops, but I understand why they don’t. 1. Most of our traders are not active on trading forums, blogs, etc. so there is an inherent fallacy there. 2. It’s their money and they can do or say what they want about it. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have many friends that go to public forums and tell anonymous strangers what their salaries are. There is no point.

Third, “My takeaway is that no one from this thread ever got a profit sharing check from TST”. Although, as stated above, most don’t like the public nature of their business being aired, attached is a shot of one of our local funded traders swinging by the office to pick up a check.

Fourth, “I'll go further on a limb and say that less than 5% of TST funded traders earn monthly income from this program.” You are doing just that, going out on a long limb here. You have no evidence to substantiate this claim. All I can say is that many do earn monthly income, and some don’t. Again, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t always make it drink. We provide the opportunity for traders to make money, we do not trade or make money for them. This is an individualized sport, traders dictate their own performance or lack thereof. Of course, we try to help as best we can, but our fingers aren’t on the “trigger”.

Fifth, is the entire paragraph regarding our business model, constrictive rules, etc. I’ve attached some funded trader spotlights which we put out of every month based on the performance of our funded traders. This should combat the assumption that “you'll be forever undercapitalized unless by some act of luck and God you manage to trade like Superman and build up an equity cushion, ALL BY YOURSELF.” Next, is the whole business model argument. This one always baffles me. We have built our company, reputation, success, over the last 5+ YEARS on transparency. There are no sales gimmicks, not even so much as a sales team here. Actually, to go a step further, the only money we’ve spent on marketing has been banner ads on futures.io (formerly BMT). We simply put EVERYTHING about our program, every last facet of it, on our website and let the trader decide if it’s the right opportunity or not for him/her. Unlike a lot of trading firms, we believe traders are educated consumers and more than capable of making their own informed decisions, so we take zero effort to persuade them in any way but their own. We just arm them with all the facts possible.

Sixth, “a TST "funded" trader really isn't trading a funded account as we know it to be. The equity sponsor is guaranteeing to backstop any losses a trader has with NinjaTrader.” I wish we were able to back 180 traders on personal guarantee or promise alone, but NinjaTrader and all brokers for that matter, aren’t stupid. They require real capital to be in real accounts in order to trade margin, particularly the size and volume of traders we have. Why would our brokerage partners take on that risk? They’re not in the business of backing traders, they’re in the business of transactional commissions. Our brokerage partners have zero incentive to take all that unwarranted risk. Each individual account is a sub-account of the master account which has substantial capital in it. In terms of the balance being $0 - yes that is true. We saw how traders performed when they came onto an account and got starry-eyed seeing high balances. It gave performance anxiety. We learned that lesson and approach everything as risk. It’s not the size of the account, but how much you can trade, build your balance slowly and surely, and the rest will take care of itself.

Last, in regards to the Rithmic feed and quality of fills, you state “In my opinion, this is a deliberate effort by TST to inflate combine traders results, sort of like a trader on steroids.” I try not to take comments personally, particularly those in public forums and made anonymously, but I’d be lying if I said this one didn’t upset and offend me. This is an allegation that we are unethical and maliciously gaming traders. We have built our business trying to help traders. Whether you believe that or not is your prerogative, but to accuse us of something so horrendous, is a bad reflection on the trading community as a whole. Not only do we say time and time again via our Squawk, and numerous conversations with traders that Sim is very different from live and that fills and feeds are not always comparable, but what incentive do we have to somehow orchestrate great fills in the Combine? So we can fund traders and they can lose our trading firm’s money like you so adamantly insist happens? This whole argument is flawed. But don’t take it from me, although, out of principle I shouldn’t offer this, I invite you to send an email to support@topsteptrader.com and I will be happy to put you in touch with a contact from Rithmic who can assure you we have done nothing to their sim environment to manipulate the data or fills in anyway.

Ultimately, we provide an opportunity. It is up to the trader to make an educated decision based on his or her skills, performance, strategy, circumstances, etc. whether we are the right opportunity for them. We don’t “pull the wool over anyone’s head” or try to be something we’re not. In terms of Combine fees and somehow getting rich off of those, we run a business. We pay for data, technology, staff, rent, etc. all of the overhead any normal business requires to offer a service. The difference is that we pay for those things in an altruistic attempt to give traders who otherwise wouldn’t, access to capital. The only other alternative is to open a brokerage account. I would much rather someone spend as little as $95/mo. in a Combine, developing safely, with an opportunity tied to it, than open a brokerage account and put in $10K, $20K, $30K+ - and blow it up. Because, as most on here know, that is how that story ends. And it’s worth noting, based on a survey we conducted, 97% of all Combine participants say the Combine helped them develop as a trader, so don’t discount that upside to it.

At the end of the day, I go to sleep very well every night knowing that we are providing a huge value to an otherwise forgotten and preyed upon community. And the vast majority of users, traders, brokers, industry players, etc. agree. That’s enough for me. As I said before, it’s not for everyone and if you disagree, I wish you well trading.

I’m happy to discuss anything further via phone, give me a call anytime at 888-407-1611.

Trade well, trade for tomorrow,

Michael Patak

If you have any questions about our Trading Combine or the opportunity to get funded through TopstepTrader, please visit www.topsteptrader.com or contact us at support@topsteptrader.com or 888.407.1611.
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  #143 (permalink)
GuyMM
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I could rebut each and every one of Mr. Patak's comments (which sound like they were written by Scientology damage control attorneys), but I'm not sure it serves any further benefit to the community. Suffice it to say, however, I stand by everything I wrote as factual and truthful.

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 Big Mike 
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GuyMM View Post
I could rebut each and every one of Mr. Patak's comments (which sound like they were written by Scientology damage control attorneys), but I'm not sure it serves any further benefit to the community. Suffice it to say, however, I stand by everything I wrote as factual and truthful.

Then do it, rebut them -- without the childish insults.

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 Nathn 
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Thanks Hoag!


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GuyMM
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Big Mike View Post
Then do it, rebut them -- without the childish insults.

Sent from my phone

When you give "Thank You" to my posts as you did your paid advertiser, then I'll consider it.

P.s. Go ahead and ban me, like you do with others who don't comply with your ideas; I could care less.

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 Big Mike 
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GuyMM View Post
When you give "Thank You" to my posts as you did your paid advertiser, then I'll consider it.

P.s. Go ahead and ban me, like you do with others who don't comply with your ideas; I could care less.

Proceed...

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 bobwest 
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Can we do without all the overblown drama about TST?

It seems that, in this case, a trader lost enough to run into one of their loss rules.

Simply put,
1. No one else had their hand on the mouse to make those trades. The trader involved made them, and is responsible for them. They didn't work. It happens.
2. You may very well not agree with the TST loss control rules, or some other part of their policies. That's perfectly legitimate, if so. Then simply don't sign the agreement, don't accept their money, and, if you have signed it and traded their money, don't complain when they enforce them.

I can certainly see someone finding that his preferred trading method does not fit in with the TST rule set or trading requirements. Everyone is different, and there are good traders who would not be successful under their rules, because their preferred strategies are different. Once you find that out, just say, "Fine, goodbye, I'll go trade my own account." End of story. This applies both during the Combine and if you are funded.

The rules are disclosed up front. They do require a certain way of trading, and are very strict in terms of loss control. Simply put, the trader accepts the role of independent contractor trading a part of the firm's capital under stated conditions. You can always quit, if you don't like the conditions. If you don't fulfill the conditions, they can fire you. This is not unlike any other contractual relationship.

Stories of victimization are just stories of avoidance of personal responsibility. Just chill out and go trade your own funds. If you don't have any, save some up.

Sorry to be blunt about all this, but there is continual outrage from some about the fact that someone is willing to put up money for people to trade but wants to have some control about how it is traded. What an outrage!

Let's just chill out on the drama. Accept the money or not, follow the rules or cut yourself loose from them and trade on your own. It's sort of simple.

Bob.

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  #149 (permalink)
 TraderFish 
Sydney, NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, CL
 
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Just sounds like someone is really butt hurt and having a cry.


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  #150 (permalink)
 tradermark2009 
Concord, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts and NT7
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: Mini's and CL
 
Posts: 230 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 974 given, 274 received

Like Bob stated you know how to read the rules, and when you sign up and pull the trigger its all on the trader as it should be.

Its too bad people have to rip TST after the fact. For how many bad vendors that are in this business, I for one appreciate TST tight rules which have made me become a better displined trader. It refined my trading when I needed it.

Its cheap money, to me.


TraderFish View Post
Just sounds like someone is really butt hurt and having a cry.



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  #151 (permalink)
GuyMM
miami florida
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
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Big Mike View Post
Proceed...

Sent from my phone

BM, I haven't forgot you. Reviewing my replies to make sure I have all the ducks in a nice row. However, I'm not convinced this is something anyone other you cares about based on subsequent posts labeling me as a disgruntled loser. It's another case of shooting the messenger. And that's fine, too. I'm not running for president.

I'm inclined to let my previous posts speak for themselves and let those who wish to buy a Combine do so and satisfy themselves if what I say resonates and draw their own conclusions. What's more, my remarks were not meant as a personal attack on TST; I simply reported a few of the important facts I thought others might be interested in knowing so they can have unvarnished information before spending money to effectively do what is available for free with NT; namely, trade SIM with ultra conservative risk parameters.

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  #152 (permalink)
DrewDown
Kansas City, MO U.S.
 
 
Posts: 211 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 301 given, 122 received

Your defense isn't exactly in line with how you were coming off two pages ago. Whether you have an axe to burn or not, it's not going to convince anyone of something they haven't experienced themselves. And going back to what others have said, if it didn't work out for you, that's not TST's fault - it's yours. If someone who would rather spend a couple hundred on a combine than trade vastly underfunded on margin with a sketchy broker is a sucker, I would rather be the sucker than the guy who is almost certain to lose his ass. The combine forces you to learn how not to lose money, and from there, if you're open to possibility, you can learn how to make it. That's all I have to say. This discussion does not belong on this thread. This is for people to share their success, not rail against a firm that is willing to invest in optimistic, skilled people.

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  #153 (permalink)
GuyMM
miami florida
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
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DrewDown View Post
This is for people to share their success, not rail against a firm that is willing to invest in optimistic, skilled people.

Really?

I suggest you re-read the title of this thread again. I passed the Combine and was funded. That's the qualifier to post here. If anything, since you obviously aren't in that category, it is you who shouldn't be posting here.

Please review BM post.


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  #154 (permalink)
DrewDown
Kansas City, MO U.S.
 
 
Posts: 211 since Mar 2015
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Big Mike View Post
This thread is only for discussion of traders that have passed (a list of passed traders).

Please use the general review/discussion thread to make a vendor review or discuss their method:



Any follow-ups regarding their business model should go in that thread.

Mike


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  #155 (permalink)
pavanb15589
Bangalore+India
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 5 given, 26 received

I have been trading the markets for a while now and I have been great at Price Action Trading.... Intraday and Forex but unfortunately I am under-capitalized which poses a lot of problems while trading... And then I came across Topstep and it is amazing that I practically get the opportunity to trade in US futures markets... Being in India, US futures contract margin required is huge and I couldn't even dream of it...
Anyway, I am demo trading Emini and I find the combine rules to be extremely tight and hence I am Scalping the market which is what I first started doing in the Indian markets before becoming a Price Action Day Trader...
I am posting my first couple of days of demo and I am sure I can maintain this consistency since scalping comes quite easily to me... I could not continue this on the Indian markets because of the high Exchange fees and brokerage fees and the profit virtually disappears and nothing substantial is left for myself at the end of the day, hence the transformation into a Price Action trader...
I would like to know how it looks to other people who are being funded and how topstep feels about the statistics... I know its a demo and then a combine is an entirely different ball game and an actual funded account is another but I kind of am sure I can keep my mind neutral across all three games demo to funded account...
Just want to know how the statistics look considering this is the first time I am trading Emini and never traded US Futures before... Also, I trade only one lot even though its a 150K account... That is my threshold and I would not like to trade beyond 1...
Please do let me know if these stats for a 10K or 30K Combine get me close to being funded or if not, I will try to enhance and see how I can go about to bring some betterment in the stats....


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  #156 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
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Hi,
You're looking good so far. I would think about or re-read your diary for your first day where your average loss is twice the size of your average win. A four point loss sounds a lot for a scalper. You do have green ticks though next to all the TST Combine rules so you are following them correctly. Bearing in mind you only need to make $1000 for the 10k or $1500 for the 30k you would be doing very well if that was a Combine. Remember though that even if you choose the Continuous Combine you have to do a minimum of 10 days whether you hit the profit target earlier or not. For people who do hit the target early TST also like to see the remaining days as proper trading, not just say one trade a day making or losing a tick until the 10 day target is hit. You could always start a journal in the Journal section, if you are happy with the idea of a public journal, and document your daily trading which might help you with feedback if you want it. Anyway, Good luck.

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  #157 (permalink)
pavanb15589
Bangalore+India
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 5 given, 26 received


matthew28 View Post
Hi,
You're looking good so far. I would think about or re-read your diary for your first day where your average loss is twice the size of your average win. A four point loss sounds a lot for a scalper. You do have green ticks though next to all the TST Combine rules so you are following them correctly. Bearing in mind you only need to make $1000 for the 10k or $1500 for the 30k you would be doing very well if that was a Combine. Remember though that even if you choose the Continuous Combine you have to do a minimum of 10 days whether you hit the profit target earlier or not. For people who do hit the target early TST also like to see the remaining days as proper trading, not just say one trade a day making or losing a tick until the 10 day target is hit. You could always start a journal in the Journal section, if you are happy with the idea of a public journal, and document your daily trading which might help you with feedback if you want it. Anyway, Good luck.

Thank You for the reply. I am really grateful.

Thank you for bringing my attention to the first day... I did not think of it in that perspective... I actually have never traded Emini before and that first day was first ever. It took me a while to get the feel of the movement. It still is pretty erratic to me but I am warming up to it now. Following the fourth day when I made another 500 with almost the same stats, I had a problem with my internet and couple of positions stayed open for the entire night which just blew my Combine rules. But I am pretty sure I can consistently pull days in green with scalp. Right now, I am just using the accounts to build a system and taking a large number of trades forward testing... Once I do this, I will trade the last 5 days of my practice account with the virtual combine rules for the remaining balance...
And, I might start a public journal for my actual combine.

Thank You... And Good Luck to you too....

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  #158 (permalink)
 Topstep  Topstep is an official Site Sponsor
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pavanb15589 View Post
I have been trading the markets for a while now and I have been great at Price Action Trading.... Intraday and Forex but unfortunately I am under-capitalized which poses a lot of problems while trading... And then I came across Topstep and it is amazing that I practically get the opportunity to trade in US futures markets... Being in India, US futures contract margin required is huge and I couldn't even dream of it...
Anyway, I am demo trading Emini and I find the combine rules to be extremely tight and hence I am Scalping the market which is what I first started doing in the Indian markets before becoming a Price Action Day Trader...
I am posting my first couple of days of demo and I am sure I can maintain this consistency since scalping comes quite easily to me... I could not continue this on the Indian markets because of the high Exchange fees and brokerage fees and the profit virtually disappears and nothing substantial is left for myself at the end of the day, hence the transformation into a Price Action trader...
I would like to know how it looks to other people who are being funded and how topstep feels about the statistics... I know its a demo and then a combine is an entirely different ball game and an actual funded account is another but I kind of am sure I can keep my mind neutral across all three games demo to funded account...
Just want to know how the statistics look considering this is the first time I am trading Emini and never traded US Futures before... Also, I trade only one lot even though its a 150K account... That is my threshold and I would not like to trade beyond 1...
Please do let me know if these stats for a 10K or 30K Combine get me close to being funded or if not, I will try to enhance and see how I can go about to bring some betterment in the stats....


Pavanb15589 - We are very happy you are here and looking forward to seeing you succeeding in the Trading Combine and a Funded Account. You are correct in stating that the practice account will be different than the Trading Combine, as the Combine is evaluated, has an accountability feel and instills discipline by following simple risk management rules. But I can give you a couple of ideas based off what we see from successful Combine and Funded Traders.

You mention scalping comes easy to you, but I don’t see you as a true scalper. You have a pretty short time frame, but we have seen traders that get past the “scalper mentality” tend to find greater success. The Combine rules do not suggest or favor any strategy, that is all up to you, it's all about managing risk.

We noticed with others that have similar risk/reward and style as you, that they need to maintain a higher win percentage in order to remain profitable. Once they start showing bigger winning trades than losses, they tend to begin to trade less, make more, and take some of the pressure off the need to be right so often. Without knowing your skills, the tools you are using, or your psychology, we can only relate what we have seen helping other traders in the Combine and Funded Accounts.

At your current balance and only trading 1 lots, you would qualify for the 10k account and very close to the 30k account profit targets after only 3 trading days. We require at least 10 trading days so make sure you keep trading your plan to show consistency, and keep working on improving your risk/reward ratio.

I hope that helps.

John Hoagland
Director of Trader Development

If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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  #159 (permalink)
pavanb15589
Bangalore+India
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
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TopstepTrader View Post
Pavanb15589 - We are very happy you are here and looking forward to seeing you succeeding in the Trading Combine and a Funded Account. You are correct in stating that the practice account will be different than the Trading Combine, as the Combine is evaluated, has an accountability feel and instills discipline by following simple risk management rules. But I can give you a couple of ideas based off what we see from successful Combine and Funded Traders.

You mention scalping comes easy to you, but I don’t see you as a true scalper. You have a pretty short time frame, but we have seen traders that get past the “scalper mentality” tend to find greater success. The Combine rules do not suggest or favor any strategy, that is all up to you, it's all about managing risk.

We noticed with others that have similar risk/reward and style as you, that they need to maintain a higher win percentage in order to remain profitable. Once they start showing bigger winning trades than losses, they tend to begin to trade less, make more, and take some of the pressure off the need to be right so often. Without knowing your skills, the tools you are using, or your psychology, we can only relate what we have seen helping other traders in the Combine and Funded Accounts.

At your current balance and only trading 1 lots, you would qualify for the 10k account and very close to the 30k account profit targets after only 3 trading days. We require at least 10 trading days so make sure you keep trading your plan to show consistency, and keep working on improving your risk/reward ratio.

I hope that helps.

John Hoagland
Director of Trader Development


Thank you for taking time out to reply and that helps a lot.
I would like to say that I am basically not a scalper. I trade trend and breakouts mostly and all these are based of Price Action with just 20EMA on the chart. My winning percentage is about 70% with 1:3 or 1:4R on the Indian Markets and Forex. Though I am a discretionary trader, I do look for certain trigger points.

The problem I am currently facing is I would like to trade only EMini and my price action knowledge held up on the back test so far but I will also need more room for my trades to breathe which is why I am unable to truly day trade. I may choose a bigger account with 150K for my combine but that's too much power and I have made huge mistakes with bigger capital. A capital threshold level I guess. I find myself efficiently trading with just 1 lot and may be 2 lots. Hence, I am just stuck between choosing a bigger account and trade the way I trade or choose the smaller accounts and improve my scalping techniques which also I have done. Also, EMini's movements are still extremely new to me and most of the times it does not move as I expect it to and also there are different times in days and I need to check all the times of the day which is favorable for me to trade.
If I did not have a practice account, I would have directly started with the combine and then I would have realized Emini's behavior is way different than what I imagined it to be and surely I would have missed my first chance at finishing it successfully. The breakouts don't happen like how I normally trade on the Indian market and also the price action movement is a lot less predective . Since I have a practice account, I could just test what works and then start with my combine.
If you have any suggestions, please do let me know.

Also, I see that FXCM is in the list of your Platforms. Is Tradestation available for Combine?

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  #160 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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  #161 (permalink)
 wxsim1 
Miami, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 126 since May 2013
Thanks: 274 given, 70 received

Funded as of today. Took me 6 free 10 day combine rollovers (Account > 0 but below 1500) to finally get funded on the 7th and one failed Funded Trader Prep. The final test is when one is funded. The max account drawdown doesn't apply anymore after the 10th day. In order to stay funded, one needs to keep account balance above 0 after the 10th trading day. Looking forward to this opportunity.

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  #162 (permalink)
 TraderFish 
Sydney, NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 26 since May 2015
Thanks: 17 given, 19 received

Congrats :-D

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  #163 (permalink)
 gdplus1 
Chicago
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, MBTDesktop
Broker: Manduca/Rithmic, MBTrading.com, e-futures
Trading: ES NG
 
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Posts: 33 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 56 given, 26 received

Cleared 30K and entered FTP.

Here is my FIO journal Entry :

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  #164 (permalink)
 Sirkin01 
Rochester, ny
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Nt, ToS, rt
Trading: Crude
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 22 received

Passed made funded account


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io mobile app

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  #165 (permalink)
 lasecondababele 
London, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: TSTcombine
Trading: CL, ES, FESX
 
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Posts: 214 since Oct 2014
Thanks: 182 given, 375 received

After tanking 6, finally passed my 7th combine and just had a pretty bad first day of Funded Trader Preparation.
Regardless whether I make it this time or the next or a year from now, it's still a pretty big achievement for me. The combine rules really forced me to put more structure into how I approach my trading and I think it's paying off: I still take dumb trades but they're becoming fewer and less harmful.

@TopstepTrader, any work of advice or encouragement?

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  #166 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
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lasecondababele View Post
After tanking 6, finally passed my 7th combine and just had a pretty bad first day of Funded Trader Preparation.
Regardless whether I make it this time or the next or a year from now, it's still a pretty big achievement for me. The combine rules really forced me to put more structure into how I approach my trading and I think it's paying off: I still take dumb trades but they're becoming fewer and less harmful.

@TopstepTrader, any work of advice or encouragement?

Very nice to read this. Good work -- it puts you well ahead of the curve, I would say.

Bob.

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  #167 (permalink)
 rleplae 
Gits (Hooglede) Belgium
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Proprietary,
Broker: Ninjabrokerage/IQfeed + Synthetic datafeed
Trading: 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, ES, NQ, YM, AEX, CL, NG, ZB, ZN, ZC, ZS, GC
 
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lasecondababele View Post
After tanking 6, finally passed my 7th combine and just had a pretty bad first day of Funded Trader Preparation.
Regardless whether I make it this time or the next or a year from now, it's still a pretty big achievement for me. The combine rules really forced me to put more structure into how I approach my trading and I think it's paying off: I still take dumb trades but they're becoming fewer and less harmful.

@TopstepTrader, any work of advice or encouragement?

Congratulations on the first step !

Which combine(s) 30/50/10/150 did you take and did you pass ?
Which instruments to do yo trade ?
Which of the constraints made you fail 6 time ? (max drawdown, daily loss, permitted products, .. ?)

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  #168 (permalink)
 lasecondababele 
London, UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: TSTcombine
Trading: CL, ES, FESX
 
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rleplae View Post
Congratulations on the first step !

Which combine(s) 30/50/10/150 did you take and did you pass ?
Which instruments to do yo trade ?
Which of the constraints made you fail 6 time ? (max drawdown, daily loss, permitted products, .. ?)

Thank you!
50k combine, though a 30k would have been easier since I usually have 2 contracts max, 3 in exceptional cases.
Since June this year (3rd combine onwards) CL only.
At the beginning it was max daily drawdowns washing me out. Max total drawdown killed my last combine, due to my average losing day being 3.5x the size of my average winning day. This is a problem I'm still struggling with but the last combine had enough large winning days to offset the (fewer) losing days.

update: LOL I blew it on the second day trading in a totally different way to what took me here in the first place. Oh well, looks like I'm starting that 30k combine sooner than I thought.

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  #169 (permalink)
 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, NT8
Trading: NQ, CL, GC, NG, HG
 
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Posts: 154 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 89 given, 346 received

Oh well, after multiple attempts, I finally passed a 50K trading Combine with TopStepTrader. Phew! Tomorrow, I start trading on FTPrep rules.

Instruments Traded: CL & GC

Methodology- All trades were entered mechanically via NT script strategies that I coded myself. Strategies uses standard NT and 3rd party indicators from various vendors.

Final Combine Trade Report:




Wish me luck.

PilotTrader



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  #170 (permalink)
 Sirkin01 
Rochester, ny
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Nt, ToS, rt
Trading: Crude
 
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PilotTrader View Post
Oh well, after multiple attempts, I finally passed a 50K trading Combine with TopStepTrader. Phew! Tomorrow, I start trading on FTPrep rules.

Instruments Traded: CL & GC

Methodology- All trades were entered mechanically via NT script strategies that I coded myself. Strategies uses standard NT and 3rd party indicators from various vendors.

Final Combine Trade Report:




Wish me luck.

PilotTrader



Only think I can offer and what has got me 3 times after passing the combine was the damm weekly stop loss be mindfull of that. That's always a hard pill to swallow. Good luck.

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  #171 (permalink)
 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, NT8
Trading: NQ, CL, GC, NG, HG
 
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Posts: 154 since Aug 2014
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Quoting 
Only think I can offer and what has got me 3 times after passing the combine was the damm weekly stop loss be mindfull of that. That's always a hard pill to swallow. Good luck.

Thanks for the heads-up Sirkin. I didn't realize this until today, pretty significant!

FROM TST site on FTP rules:
What is the Weekly Loss Limit?

Following successful completion of a $50K, $100K or $150K Trading Combine, Funded Trader Preparation and Funded Accounts have a Weekly Loss Limit. The Weekly Loss Limit is the maximum amount you may lose at any point in a calendar week (Monday through Friday). The Weekly Loss Limit is equivalent to the Daily Loss Limit and is factored based on the SUM of the total Net P&L in the calendar week (calculated intra-day). In Funded Accounts, the Weekly Loss Limit rule is eliminated once the Trailing Max Drawdown reaches the starting balance.

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  #172 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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there my be some thing i am missing in there program. when you jump through all the hops and get funded. top step is not putting up no 150,000 for your trading. it is more like 1500 . you get booted . that is the max draw down. even with good results after that you pay for your own data plus top end retail com. and they get 25% of the profits. it would seem a very long way from having the account necessary to make 2000 a week as a trader., if ever ...if there are any funded top step traders making 200,000 a year.... share with us the wonderful thrill ride

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  #173 (permalink)
 Sirkin01 
Rochester, ny
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Nt, ToS, rt
Trading: Crude
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2012
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forgiven View Post
there my be some thing i am missing in there program. when you jump through all the hops and get funded. top step is not putting up no 150,000 for your trading. it is more like 1500 . you get booted . that is the max draw down. even with good results after that you pay for your own data plus top end retail com. and they get 25% of the profits. it would seem a very long way from having the account necessary to make 2000 a week as a trader., if ever ...if there are any funded top step traders making 200,000 a year.... share with us the wonderful thrill ride

There giving you 10 contracts but in the beginning you scale in, and use min lot size so he trader doesn't blow up the account early, your stop loss is 3k for a 150k account. As well you are now considered a professional trader, there for you now pay the exchange as a pro trader not a retail trader. This money does not go to them. What is top end retail.com
Hope this helps, tst is as legitimate as they come.

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  #174 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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forgiven View Post
there my be some thing i am missing in there program. when you jump through all the hops and get funded. top step is not putting up no 150,000 for your trading.


This is so. But it's effectively much more than you $1,500 you mentioned: for the $150k Combine you refer to, the max drawdown is actually $4,500.

What they're really doing is lending their account facilities to enable you trade as if you had (considerably) more capital than you really do. The Combine, FTP and funded account are all an ongoing test of risk management (just as trading your own account successfully is).



forgiven View Post
they get 25% of the profits.


Not quite: you get 100% of the first $5,000 and after that, they get 20%.



forgiven View Post
it would seem a very long way from having the account necessary to make 2000 a week as a trader


Indeed, but they've never suggested or implied that, or anything like it.

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 forgiven 
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i pay 3.50 round trip on the ES with free data , i can play trader free in sim. do they not charge you 160.00 a month to play trader...then when or if funded 5.50 round trip and you pay for your own data, i am not saying they are not legit . it just seems you are doing a whole lot for very little. if you could trade why would you even bother with top step// now if they give you free education and software ,mentoring, coaching, filtered news wire. that would be different but they charge for all of that. or am i wrong ..i am not bashing top step ..

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  #176 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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forgiven View Post
when or if funded 5.50 round trip


Typically a little under $4, I think.



forgiven View Post
it just seems you are doing a whole lot for very little.


It seems differently, to me. These things are very subjective, aren't they? I wonder whether, and to what extent, it might seem that way to you because it turns out that most of the "facts" you've quoted in support of your perspective (four or five of them, just between your previous two posts) have actually turned out to be mistaken.

Anyway, I think this isn't really the appropriate thread in which to discuss them: this one's intended simply as a record of FIO members successfully funded by TST, of whom there are clearly many.

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  #177 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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i was trying to figure out why some one that can trade would trade with top step. i thought there may be some thing in there program i was missing. if my facts are wrong and they may be ...so what...there not of that much..the way you learn is to ask questions. that is all i am doing. are you a funded top step trader. if you are then please share with us why you would not be better of trading on your own. what do they offer that is wort it. i thought there may be coaching free training. some of my facts my be wrong but the questions are fair questions. i am not posting to bash top step , i no there legit an not a scam. the way you are responding some one may think you work for top step. this is my last post to this thread i do not want to fuss over it.

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  #178 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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forgiven View Post
i was trying to figure out why some one that can trade would trade with top step.


The answer I see offered most widely is that they have trading skills but not enough capital to trade futures on their own account.

That's been the reason given by the people I know myself, who have become successfully funded by TST, anyway.



forgiven View Post
i thought there may be some thing in there program i was missing.


I don't know if you were "missing" anything, but it certainly seems that you had much of the information wrong?



forgiven View Post
so what...there not of that much


Well, the first I corrected was out by a factor of 300%, it seems?



forgiven View Post
the way you learn is to ask questions. that is all i am doing.


Not at all: you were also stating a whole series of "facts", but they were rather wide of the mark.



forgiven View Post
are you a funded top step trader.


No; I'm not. I have no connection with them at all (past or present).



forgiven View Post
if you are then please share with us why you would not be better of trading on your own.


My understanding of their offer is that it's intended specifically for and targeted specifically at people without the capital to trade futures on their own account.

That being so, there's no real "comparison" available.

The choice for the people in TST's target demographic isn't "should I trade futures on my own account or through TST?" (I agree with your inference that that wouldn't be much of a contest at all!): it's "should I trade futures through a TST account for 80% of the takings after 100% of the first $5,000, or not at all, and am I able and willing to risk $150 or whatever, to see if my risk management skills can qualify me?"



forgiven View Post
the way you are responding some one may think you work for top step.


I think I've been here long enough, made enough posts, and know enough other members for nobody whose reactions would concern me to suspect that. I repeat that I have no connection with them. I was posting simply to try to answer some of your questions and to correct some of the factual misinformation with which you've backed up your statements.

Anyway, I think this isn't really the appropriate thread in which to discuss them: this one's intended simply as a record of FIO members successfully funded by TST, of whom there are clearly many.

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  #179 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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it is like playing a satlite poker game online trying to win a buy in at the world series of poker. it limits your losses to you make it to a final table.. the program is not made for some one who has capital and can trade ..sorry for calling you a vendor ..

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  #180 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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forgiven View Post
the program is not made for some one who has capital and can trade


No, of course not: it's targeted specifically at people who can trade but don't have the "riskable capital" (and clearly there are loads of them, and all over the world, too - you do need quite a lot of capital to trade futures, after all).

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  #181 (permalink)
 chipps1983 
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I passed my first 50k combine was ready to get funded. I had to step back due to US work regulations on my visa.

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  #182 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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After many unsuccessful attempts, I finally passed a 50k Combine and Funded Trader Preparation as well...so I'm a funded trader for about 2.5 weeks now.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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 bobwest 
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Daytrader999 View Post
After many unsuccessful attempts, I finally passed a 50k Combine and Funded Trader Preparation as well...so I'm a funded trader for about 2.5 weeks now.

Terrific!

Glad to hear, and it's good to hear from you again.

Bob.

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 Daytrader999 
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bobwest View Post
Terrific!

Glad to hear, and it's good to hear from you again.

Bob.

Thanks Bob, I really appreciate that...and great to hear from you too!

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 Trader146 
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I just made a post about it on their vendor review page. Check it out here

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  #186 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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chipps1983 View Post
I passed my first 50k combine was ready to get funded. I had to step back due to US work regulations on my visa.

I don't understand how the work reg impact you ?

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  #187 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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Tymbeline View Post
This is so. But it's effectively much more than you $1,500 you mentioned: for the $150k Combine you refer to, the max drawdown is actually $4,500.

Not sure, but is not the drawdown you refer to ($4,500) only to the watermark?
The watermark rises to your starting account balance (once you have accumulated profits of $4,500) meaning you are drawing down into your own accumulated profits (the amount above the watermark).

This means you are only drawing down to into your own accumulated earnings, - is that not correct?

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 chipps1983 
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aquarian1 View Post
I don't understand how the work reg impact you ?

I am in US on work permit which clearly says I can't work for any other organization. Working with TST is like doing contract job and you get 1099 Misc for US residents. I am not allowed to earn that way.

I can do trading in my own account and get 1099B.

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  #189 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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chipps1983 View Post
I am in US on work permit which clearly says I can't work for any other organization. Working with TST is like doing contract job and you get 1099 Misc for US residents. I am not allowed to earn that way.

I can do trading in my own account and get 1099B.

Thanks Chipps. Would a non US resident get a 1099 Misc (or something like that sent to whatever country they are a resident of?)

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 Tymbeline 
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aquarian1 View Post
The watermark rises to your starting account balance (once you have accumulated profits of $4,500) meaning you are drawing down into your own accumulated profits (the amount above the watermark).

This means you are only drawing down to into your own accumulated earnings, - is that not correct?


Yes, as far as I know - it's a trailing max drawdown, explained (and even illustrated) here: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514547

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 chipps1983 
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aquarian1 View Post
Thanks Chipps. Would a non US resident get a 1099 Misc (or something like that sent to whatever country they are a resident of?)

Definitely, you would get something. I am not sure if you would get 1099 Misc Outside US.

You can ask all the questions in TopStepTrader thread.

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  #192 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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Tymbeline View Post
Yes, as far as I know - it's a trailing max drawdown, explained (and even illustrated) here: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514547


I gone to the example you've referenced. It doesn't seem to be for funded accounts.
It in the trading combine section.
"Once the Trailing Max Drawdown reaches the initial starting balance of your account, it won’t change for the remainder of your evaluation period. "

Then I went to Funded accounts
looked at the rules and clicked on trailing drawdown and again it took me to the same place.

As with all of TST website it takes forever to get a clear answer -if you ever do -- and they never put all the rules and catch-22s all in one place.

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 Tymbeline 
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aquarian1 View Post
I gone to the example you've referenced. It doesn't seem to be for funded accounts.
It in the trading combine section.


The principle is the same for both.



aquarian1 View Post
Then I went to Funded accounts
looked at the rules and clicked on trailing drawdown and again it took me to the same place.


That's probably because the principle is the same for both?



aquarian1 View Post
they never put all the rules and catch-22s all in one place.


I think the website's now fully updated after the recent rule changes (which, like last year's rule changes, were designed to remove a few restrictions, make it easier to qualify, and increase the overall Combine success-rates). It's true that the rules do change from time to time, because TST are pretty impressive at listening to customer feedback and acting on it. (If they didn't ever change, people would perhaps complain that they're inflexible and never change anything even when people request it? I prefer it this way, myself - but that's just my opinion, of course.)

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  #194 (permalink)
 Sirkin01 
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The trailing max draw down it the same, if your in you combine LTP, or live.
So once u hit break even, so basicly you have a 2k drawn down, once you reach 2k in profits, you can no longer be negative in the account or you are done. Basiclly



aquarian1 View Post
I gone to the example you've referenced. It doesn't seem to be for funded accounts.
It in the trading combine section.
"Once the Trailing Max Drawdown reaches the initial starting balance of your account, it won’t change for the remainder of your evaluation period. "

Then I went to Funded accounts
looked at the rules and clicked on trailing drawdown and again it took me to the same place.

As with all of TST website it takes forever to get a clear answer -if you ever do -- and they never put all the rules and catch-22s all in one place.


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  #195 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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Tymbeline View Post

think the website's now fully updated after the recent rule changes (which, like last year's rule changes, were designed to remove a few restrictions, make it easier to qualify, and increase the overall Combine success-rates). It's true that the rules do change from time to time, because TST are pretty impressive at listening to customer feedback and acting on it. (If they didn't ever change, people would perhaps complain that they're inflexible and never change anything even when people request it? I prefer it this way, myself - but that's just my opinion, of course.)

My post was nothing about rules changing that is fine.
The website is poorly designed cut-and-paste with tiny amounts of content scattered all over the place, requiring hours of back and forth - questions to support - evasive answers and so on.

A friend was going through a combine - last March - and I would ask him questions. He would say He wasn't sure then get an answer from the support - which didn't answer it - and I would repeat - and eventually he said
"Oh I'll just wait until pass the combine and then take it from there."

So I want to know all the rules - all the catches - what I will have to sign - what I am liable for, that is in writing not what might be said in a email, etc before I start.

I find it so laborious to get the whole story that it becomes more time than its worth.

When I ask other FIO members simple questions - they get evasive and say things like:
"Oh post that in the ask anything thread"
"Oh look at the website"
"Oh why not ask support?"

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 aquarian1 
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Sirkin01 View Post
The trailing max draw down it the same, if your in you combine LTP, or live.
So once u hit break even, so basicly you have a 2k drawn down, once you reach 2k in profits, you can no longer be negative in the account or you are done. Basiclly

Thanks for a clear honest answer.
most appreciated. :-)

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 Sirkin01 
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If anyone has a question or concern please ask, I will try to be as transparent as I can, and honest.
I am assuming liable when live. You have nothing at risk once you go live, just jacking yourself up and starting all over again. Now you sign a agreement, basically saying you earn is your, the pay out all the rules you have to follow if you don't they can let you go. You will have to pay a 89$ dollar fee every month for each product you trade. So say you trade Es,cl, and zb that's 89 x3. Per the exchange rules, since you are trading others people money, they consider you a professional. That's they only catch, yes the website makes it sorta tuff, but once you have searched around it's pretty much on there. I like topsteptrader for the fact they have never lied, and are trying to do right by the trader. Yes they might make mistakes, but for the most they. If you pass, they will back you. And just make it clear I am not recieving anything from them, my name is handletrader, when I join the tst chat. If anyone has a question please ask. I will try my best to give you a strait answer.



aquarian1 View Post
My post was nothing about rules changing that is fine.
The website is poorly designed cut-and-paste with tiny amounts of content scattered all over the place, requiring hours of back and forth - questions to support - evasive answers and so on.

A friend was going through a combine - last March - and I would ask him questions. He would say He wasn't sure then get an answer from the support - which didn't answer it - and I would repeat - and eventually he said
"Oh I'll just wait until pass the combine and then take it from there."

So I want to know all the rules - all the catches - what I will have to sign - what I am liable for, that is in writing not what might be said in a email, etc before I start.

I find it so laborious to get the whole story that it becomes more time than its worth.

When I ask other FIO members simple questions - they get evasive and say things like:
"Oh post that in the ask anything thread"
"Oh look at the website"
"Oh why not ask support?"


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  #198 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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Sirkin01 View Post
If anyone has a question or concern please ask, I will try to be as transparent as I can, and honest.
I am assuming liable when live. You have nothing at risk once you go live, just jacking yourself up and starting all over again. Now you sign a agreement, basically saying you earn is your, the pay out all the rules you have to follow if you don't they can let you go. You will have to pay a 89$ dollar fee every month for each product you trade. So say you trade Es,cl, and zb that's 89 x3. Per the exchange rules, since you are trading others people money, they consider you a professional. That's they only catch, yes the website makes it sorta tuff, but once you have searched around it's pretty much on there. I like topsteptrader for the fact they have never lied, and are trying to do right by the trader. Yes they might make mistakes, but for the most they. If you pass, they will back you. And just make it clear I am not recieving anything from them, my name is handletrader, when I join the tst chat. If anyone has a question please ask. I will try my best to give you a strait answer.

Ok here goes:

I want to know if there is an account opening agreement that you sign (probably when getting the funded account) - just as you would when opening a futures brokerage account.

When carefully reading a futures brokerage account it says you are liable for all losses no matter how they arise whether due to: computer problems, internet, exchange or even their errors.

So in the flash crash where the S&P dropped a huge amount (the "fat finger" crash may 6 2010) many peoples protective stop-losses were not filled. The brokerage's computer submitted them to the exchange and by the time they got there they were rejected as "to far off the market". For those who resubmitted rejected again. it was falling very fast. Some people were liable for up to $6,000 for a single ES.

For those who weren't close out at the LOD the Fed came in a bought up the market to close it back near the open but that didn't help those who couldn't get the stop filled or who the computer filled them but with their account many thousands of dollars in the negative.


So
1. Did you sign a futures account opening form when you were given a funded account?
2. If yes - please read it carefully - and tell me what it says it will be in the fine print.

(In passing, if I open a futures account with a futures broker I am able to read the entire account agreement BEFORE starting and decide if I accept all the terms and conditions. It's posted online for anyone to read - just as it should be. Open and above board.)

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 Sirkin01 
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To answer your question, I not only read the agreement I had the answer verified by the owner Mr. Patak. This comes from the agreement. The parties


"acknowledge that Trader shall not (a) provide trading capital for the Trading Account;

(b) have responsibility to provide capital based on trading losses, except as provided in

Section 8; nor (c) make any loan to PTP for the purpose of providing trading capital."


You will NOT incur a loss, or provide any capital if you have a loss, due to a market crash. But with that if you have 20k in the account, and you lose internet, or etc, that 20k is gone, But hopefully you have a stop in place and still have your daily stop limit, that they have you use. You are not responsible for anything beyond that.
They TST being a Prop firm knows this risk, part of the business.
I hope this helps.
Handletrader





aquarian1 View Post
Ok here goes:

I want to know if there is an account opening agreement that you sign (probably when getting the funded account) - just as you would when opening a futures brokerage account.

When carefully reading a futures brokerage account it says you are liable for all losses no matter how they arise whether due to: computer problems, internet, exchange or even their errors.

So in the flash crash where the S&P dropped a huge amount (the "fat finger" crash may 6 2010) many peoples protective stop-losses were not filled. The brokerage's computer submitted them to the exchange and by the time they got there they were rejected as "to far off the market". For those who resubmitted rejected again. it was falling very fast. Some people were liable for up to $6,000 for a single ES.

For those who weren't close out at the LOD the Fed came in a bought up the market to close it back near the open but that didn't help those who couldn't get the stop filled or who the computer filled them but with their account many thousands of dollars in the negative.


So
1. Did you sign a futures account opening form when you were given a funded account?
2. If yes - please read it carefully - and tell me what it says it will be in the fine print.

(In passing, if I open a futures account with a futures broker I am able to read the entire account agreement BEFORE starting and decide if I accept all the terms and conditions. It's posted online for anyone to read - just as it should be. Open and above board.)


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 aquarian1 
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Sirkin01 View Post
To answer your question, I not only read the agreement I had the answer verified by the owner Mr. Patak. This comes from the agreement. The parties


"acknowledge that Trader shall not (a) provide trading capital for the Trading Account;

(b) have responsibility to provide capital based on trading losses, except as provided in

Section 8; nor (c) make any loan to PTP for the purpose of providing trading capital."

I hope this helps.
Handletrader

Thank-you.

What does section 8 say?

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