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List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded
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List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded

  #141 (permalink)
Elite Member
Leeds UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FXTrade
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers, CapitalSpreads, Oanda
Favorite Futures: GBP/USD
 
Tymbeline's Avatar
 
Posts: 393 since Apr 2015
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GuyMM View Post
If I'm off base here, let Mr. Patak or one of his lieutenants come here and explain why.

He does and they do, and very openly, but there's a specific thread for asking him/them: https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/25776-topsteptrader-s-michael-patak-president-ask-me-anything-ask-me-anything.html

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  #142 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.topsteptrader.com 
Chicago Illinois
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: T4
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Hoag's Avatar
 
Posts: 66 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 23 given, 306 received

Response from TopstepTrader

GuyMM,

Thank you for your feedback and opinions. A lot has been said, so I will do my best to cover it all.

First, in terms of your own funded account. TopstepTrader obviously has no way of knowing who you are via an anonymous thread, so we weren’t able to look into the specifics. Although every trader signs a trading agreement agreeing to the rules and that the trading firm does not have to make exceptions. What I can tell you is that we do and have made exceptions on breaking rules in the funded account, particularly loss limits. If you would like more color as to why you were not afforded that leniency, feel free to contact funding@topsteptrader.com and they will be happy to perform some due diligence and give you a clear answer as to why the trading firm wasn’t comfortable with you moving forward.

Second, your comment “I think it speaks volumes that not a single funded trader has come forward to share anything about ANY profits earned” is something we have zero control over. I wish every trader who earned profits through us screamed it from the rooftops, but I understand why they don’t. 1. Most of our traders are not active on trading forums, blogs, etc. so there is an inherent fallacy there. 2. It’s their money and they can do or say what they want about it. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have many friends that go to public forums and tell anonymous strangers what their salaries are. There is no point.

Third, “My takeaway is that no one from this thread ever got a profit sharing check from TST”. Although, as stated above, most don’t like the public nature of their business being aired, attached is a shot of one of our local funded traders swinging by the office to pick up a check.

Fourth, “I'll go further on a limb and say that less than 5% of TST funded traders earn monthly income from this program.” You are doing just that, going out on a long limb here. You have no evidence to substantiate this claim. All I can say is that many do earn monthly income, and some don’t. Again, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t always make it drink. We provide the opportunity for traders to make money, we do not trade or make money for them. This is an individualized sport, traders dictate their own performance or lack thereof. Of course, we try to help as best we can, but our fingers aren’t on the “trigger”.

Fifth, is the entire paragraph regarding our business model, constrictive rules, etc. I’ve attached some funded trader spotlights which we put out of every month based on the performance of our funded traders. This should combat the assumption that “you'll be forever undercapitalized unless by some act of luck and God you manage to trade like Superman and build up an equity cushion, ALL BY YOURSELF.” Next, is the whole business model argument. This one always baffles me. We have built our company, reputation, success, over the last 5+ YEARS on transparency. There are no sales gimmicks, not even so much as a sales team here. Actually, to go a step further, the only money we’ve spent on marketing has been banner ads on futures.io (formerly BMT). We simply put EVERYTHING about our program, every last facet of it, on our website and let the trader decide if it’s the right opportunity or not for him/her. Unlike a lot of trading firms, we believe traders are educated consumers and more than capable of making their own informed decisions, so we take zero effort to persuade them in any way but their own. We just arm them with all the facts possible.

Sixth, “a TST "funded" trader really isn't trading a funded account as we know it to be. The equity sponsor is guaranteeing to backstop any losses a trader has with NinjaTrader.” I wish we were able to back 180 traders on personal guarantee or promise alone, but NinjaTrader and all brokers for that matter, aren’t stupid. They require real capital to be in real accounts in order to trade margin, particularly the size and volume of traders we have. Why would our brokerage partners take on that risk? They’re not in the business of backing traders, they’re in the business of transactional commissions. Our brokerage partners have zero incentive to take all that unwarranted risk. Each individual account is a sub-account of the master account which has substantial capital in it. In terms of the balance being $0 - yes that is true. We saw how traders performed when they came onto an account and got starry-eyed seeing high balances. It gave performance anxiety. We learned that lesson and approach everything as risk. It’s not the size of the account, but how much you can trade, build your balance slowly and surely, and the rest will take care of itself.

Last, in regards to the Rithmic feed and quality of fills, you state “In my opinion, this is a deliberate effort by TST to inflate combine traders results, sort of like a trader on steroids.” I try not to take comments personally, particularly those in public forums and made anonymously, but I’d be lying if I said this one didn’t upset and offend me. This is an allegation that we are unethical and maliciously gaming traders. We have built our business trying to help traders. Whether you believe that or not is your prerogative, but to accuse us of something so horrendous, is a bad reflection on the trading community as a whole. Not only do we say time and time again via our Squawk, and numerous conversations with traders that Sim is very different from live and that fills and feeds are not always comparable, but what incentive do we have to somehow orchestrate great fills in the Combine? So we can fund traders and they can lose our trading firm’s money like you so adamantly insist happens? This whole argument is flawed. But don’t take it from me, although, out of principle I shouldn’t offer this, I invite you to send an email to support@topsteptrader.com and I will be happy to put you in touch with a contact from Rithmic who can assure you we have done nothing to their sim environment to manipulate the data or fills in anyway.

Ultimately, we provide an opportunity. It is up to the trader to make an educated decision based on his or her skills, performance, strategy, circumstances, etc. whether we are the right opportunity for them. We don’t “pull the wool over anyone’s head” or try to be something we’re not. In terms of Combine fees and somehow getting rich off of those, we run a business. We pay for data, technology, staff, rent, etc. all of the overhead any normal business requires to offer a service. The difference is that we pay for those things in an altruistic attempt to give traders who otherwise wouldn’t, access to capital. The only other alternative is to open a brokerage account. I would much rather someone spend as little as $95/mo. in a Combine, developing safely, with an opportunity tied to it, than open a brokerage account and put in $10K, $20K, $30K+ - and blow it up. Because, as most on here know, that is how that story ends. And it’s worth noting, based on a survey we conducted, 97% of all Combine participants say the Combine helped them develop as a trader, so don’t discount that upside to it.

At the end of the day, I go to sleep very well every night knowing that we are providing a huge value to an otherwise forgotten and preyed upon community. And the vast majority of users, traders, brokers, industry players, etc. agree. That’s enough for me. As I said before, it’s not for everyone and if you disagree, I wish you well trading.

I’m happy to discuss anything further via phone, give me a call anytime at 888-407-1611.

Trade well, trade for tomorrow,

Michael Patak

If you have any questions about our Trading Combine or the opportunity to get funded through TopstepTrader, please visit www.topsteptrader.com or contact us at support@topsteptrader.com or 888.407.1611.
Attached Thumbnails
List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded-check-pickup.jpg   List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded-funded-trader-highlights-may-.pdf   List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded-funded-trader-highlights-june-.pdf   List of FIO traders who have passed the TST combine or funded-funded-trader-highlights-july-.pdf  
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  #143 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
miami florida
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 31 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 36 received


I could rebut each and every one of Mr. Patak's comments (which sound like they were written by Scientology damage control attorneys), but I'm not sure it serves any further benefit to the community. Suffice it to say, however, I stand by everything I wrote as factual and truthful.

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  #144 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,237 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,148 received


GuyMM View Post
I could rebut each and every one of Mr. Patak's comments (which sound like they were written by Scientology damage control attorneys), but I'm not sure it serves any further benefit to the community. Suffice it to say, however, I stand by everything I wrote as factual and truthful.

Then do it, rebut them -- without the childish insults.

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  #145 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dallas Texas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 3 since Jul 2013
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Thanks Hoag!


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  #146 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
miami florida
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 31 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 36 received


Big Mike View Post
Then do it, rebut them -- without the childish insults.

Sent from my phone

When you give "Thank You" to my posts as you did your paid advertiser, then I'll consider it.

P.s. Go ahead and ban me, like you do with others who don't comply with your ideas; I could care less.

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  #147 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,237 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,148 received


GuyMM View Post
When you give "Thank You" to my posts as you did your paid advertiser, then I'll consider it.

P.s. Go ahead and ban me, like you do with others who don't comply with your ideas; I could care less.

Proceed...

Sent from my phone

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #148 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3,613 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 26,648 given, 11,037 received

Can we do without all the overblown drama about TST?

It seems that, in this case, a trader lost enough to run into one of their loss rules.

Simply put,
1. No one else had their hand on the mouse to make those trades. The trader involved made them, and is responsible for them. They didn't work. It happens.
2. You may very well not agree with the TST loss control rules, or some other part of their policies. That's perfectly legitimate, if so. Then simply don't sign the agreement, don't accept their money, and, if you have signed it and traded their money, don't complain when they enforce them.

I can certainly see someone finding that his preferred trading method does not fit in with the TST rule set or trading requirements. Everyone is different, and there are good traders who would not be successful under their rules, because their preferred strategies are different. Once you find that out, just say, "Fine, goodbye, I'll go trade my own account." End of story. This applies both during the Combine and if you are funded.

The rules are disclosed up front. They do require a certain way of trading, and are very strict in terms of loss control. Simply put, the trader accepts the role of independent contractor trading a part of the firm's capital under stated conditions. You can always quit, if you don't like the conditions. If you don't fulfill the conditions, they can fire you. This is not unlike any other contractual relationship.

Stories of victimization are just stories of avoidance of personal responsibility. Just chill out and go trade your own funds. If you don't have any, save some up.

Sorry to be blunt about all this, but there is continual outrage from some about the fact that someone is willing to put up money for people to trade but wants to have some control about how it is traded. What an outrage!

Let's just chill out on the drama. Accept the money or not, follow the rules or cut yourself loose from them and trade on your own. It's sort of simple.

Bob.

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  #149 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sydney, NSW Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES, CL
 
Posts: 26 since May 2015
Thanks: 17 given, 19 received

Just sounds like someone is really butt hurt and having a cry.


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  #150 (permalink)
Elite Member
Concord, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts and NT7
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Mini's and CL
 
Posts: 225 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 918 given, 272 received


Like Bob stated you know how to read the rules, and when you sign up and pull the trigger its all on the trader as it should be.

Its too bad people have to rip TST after the fact. For how many bad vendors that are in this business, I for one appreciate TST tight rules which have made me become a better displined trader. It refined my trading when I needed it.

Its cheap money, to me.


TraderFish View Post
Just sounds like someone is really butt hurt and having a cry.



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