NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?


Discussion in Trading Reviews and Vendors

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 6 posts (21 thanks)
    2. looks_two Cloudy with 5 posts (7 thanks)
    3. looks_3 SpeculatorSeth with 4 posts (2 thanks)
    4. looks_4 syxforex with 2 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one GaryD with 4.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 3.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Joseph689 with 3 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Cloudy with 1.4 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 19,212 views
    2. thumb_up 69 thanks given
    3. group 23 followers
    1. forum 46 posts
    2. attach_file 2 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?

  #41 (permalink)
 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
Thanks Given: 22
Thanks Received: 1,018


matthew28 View Post
Why do you need to become a Ninjatrader ecosystem vendor. Surely you can sell whatever you like off your own YouTube channel. Or to put it bluntly, does that just provide a veneer of respectability?

There's a number of benefits. Primarily because it gives access to the built in vendor licensing. I wanted to collaborate with my viewers by giving them the same tools I use. There was not much setup required to get the licensing working, and it lets me give people free trials. There's not much more to it than that.


Quoting 
If I was seeing vendor results I would expect them to be real money, if the vendor isn't making actual money from his indicators, or be able to use them with a real money account as the buyer wants to do, why would I buy them?

There are things about this market that make me uncomfortable putting on a lot of risk with futures. I only mentioned that I've had some encouraging results lately to illustrate that what many people would consider to be good stats isn't enough for me to be comfortable with risk taking right now. By extension I'm questioning the premise that past stats alone justify taking on risk. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


Fonz View Post
Trying to explain to the "retail community" that your indicators and strategies will bring fortune if their are correctly understood and correctly applied, with no proof of anything, just wont.

I never made such a claim, and I never would make such a claim. I sense though that people are missing the larger point I was trying to convey. Look at the most reputable names and vendors in the futures trading space. The people that regularly do webinars here. Do they market their products or services by regularly posting public broker statements? I've never seen it. In fact, when you really look you'll notice that they actively avoid making any performance claims. I only see fools and scammers posting such things.

Why is that? Well, once you start looking at the compliance requirements for such things you'll realize that it's just a liability to make performance claims, even if you can back it up. That's why I jump on people so quickly when they make such performance claims on forums. I know that if they really knew what they were doing they wouldn't boast.

Hence why even though all of my trading is available to watch on YouTube, I do not make performance claims. Sometimes I do well. Sometimes I don't do well. If I do well you might not be able to duplicate my results.

Many people are searching for something that they're just never going to find. Which is why I suggest a different approach. Look for evidence of a market behavior that isn't just a random walk. That's going to get you a lot farther.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
PowerLanguage & EasyLanguage. How to get the platfor …
EasyLanguage Programming
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
29 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
21 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
  #42 (permalink)
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 TheShrike 
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Experience: None
Broker: Tasty
Trading: Fops
Posts: 533 since Jun 2012
Thanks Given: 1,588
Thanks Received: 923


TWDsje View Post
There's a number of benefits. Primarily because it gives access to the built in vendor licensing. I wanted to collaborate with my viewers by giving them the same tools I use. There was not much setup required to get the licensing working, and it lets me give people free trials. There's not much more to it than that.



There are things about this market that make me uncomfortable putting on a lot of risk with futures. I only mentioned that I've had some encouraging results lately to illustrate that what many people would consider to be good stats isn't enough for me to be comfortable with risk taking right now. By extension I'm questioning the premise that past stats alone justify taking on risk. Past performance is not indicative of future results.



I never made such a claim, and I never would make such a claim. I sense though that people are missing the larger point I was trying to convey. Look at the most reputable names and vendors in the futures trading space. The people that regularly do webinars here. Do they market their products or services by regularly posting public broker statements? I've never seen it. In fact, when you really look you'll notice that they actively avoid making any performance claims. I only see fools and scammers posting such things.

Why is that? Well, once you start looking at the compliance requirements for such things you'll realize that it's just a liability to make performance claims, even if you can back it up. That's why I jump on people so quickly when they make such performance claims on forums. I know that if they really knew what they were doing they wouldn't boast.

Hence why even though all of my trading is available to watch on YouTube, I do not make performance claims. Sometimes I do well. Sometimes I don't do well. If I do well you might not be able to duplicate my results.

Many people are searching for something that they're just never going to find. Which is why I suggest a different approach. Look for evidence of a market behavior that isn't just a random walk. That's going to get you a lot farther.

That's a pretty convenient line to take, now that you're officially a vendor. Anyone selling something can easily post an account statement without making performance claims. Why don't the vast majority of vendors do it? Because they can't. They trade sim or they don't trade at all. They're marketeers, not traders. That's the bottom line. Think about it, if any of these vendors could actually prove that what they're selling works it would be a huge boon to their business - but you never see it in this industry. Why? Because there's more money to be made selling shovels than there is mining the actual gold.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #43 (permalink)
 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
Thanks Given: 22
Thanks Received: 1,018



TheShrike View Post
That's a pretty convenient line to take, now that you're officially a vendor. Anyone selling something can easily post an account statement without making performance claims.

As soon as you do that you'd also have to ensure that data is updated every 90 days, mention that past performance is not indicative of future results, have equally empathized statements about the risk of loss, and be able to demonstrate to NFA that the information is representative of the actual performance for the same time period of all reasonably comparable accounts.

But ya know, I'm a vendor now selling a $10 per month YouTube channel membership so clearly I'm just trying to pull the wool over your eyes lmao.

Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)
 
Fonz's Avatar
 Fonz 
Miami, Fl
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, Jigsaw
Trading: Futures
Posts: 50 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 24
Thanks Received: 64


TWDsje View Post
...
...But ya know, I'm a vendor now selling a $10 per month YouTube channel membership so clearly I'm just trying to pull the wool over your eyes lmao.

This is so true and so sad.

Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 TheShrike 
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Experience: None
Broker: Tasty
Trading: Fops
Posts: 533 since Jun 2012
Thanks Given: 1,588
Thanks Received: 923


TWDsje View Post
As soon as you do that you'd also have to ensure that data is updated every 90 days, mention that past performance is not indicative of future results, have equally empathized statements about the risk of loss, and be able to demonstrate to NFA that the information is representative of the actual performance for the same time period of all reasonably comparable accounts.

But ya know, I'm a vendor now selling a $10 per month YouTube channel membership so clearly I'm just trying to pull the wool over your eyes lmao.

That would be true if you were or had to be registered with the NFA. Otherwise no. Trading education vendors don't because they're generally not CPO's, CTA's, IB's or FCM's. There's nothing magical about posting a picture of an account statement as long as it's accompanied by an appropriate disclaimer. You seem pretty sharp, so you probably already knew that and have appropriate disclaimers on your indicator site and discord.

Listen, I don't care one way or another what you sell or how cheap or expensive it is. If you can sell a watermelon for 10,000 dollars great. If you can make a couple extra bucks flogging affiliate links in your discord or monetizing your Youtube videos then good for you. All I'm advocating for is more transparency in the industry. If you're selling something that you claim to use yourself to make money, you should be able to at least demonstrate that it works to a potential customer. Most don't because they can't. That's all.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #46 (permalink)
 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
Thanks Given: 22
Thanks Received: 1,018


TheShrike View Post
That would be true if you were or had to be registered with the NFA. Otherwise no. Trading education vendors don't because they're generally not CPO's, CTA's, IB's or FCM's. There's nothing magical about posting a picture of an account statement as long as it's accompanied by an appropriate disclaimer. You seem pretty sharp, so you probably already knew that and have appropriate disclaimers on your indicator site and discord.

Listen, I don't care one way or another what you sell or how cheap or expensive it is. If you can sell a watermelon for 10,000 dollars great. If you can make a couple extra bucks flogging affiliate links in your discord or monetizing your Youtube videos then good for you. All I'm advocating for is more transparency in the industry. If you're selling something that you claim to use yourself to make money, you should be able to at least demonstrate that it works to a potential customer. Most don't because they can't. That's all.

These are all requirements of being a part of the NinjaTrader ecosystem. Even if a vendor wasn't legally obligated to follow these guidelines I think one would be foolish to do things that would break those rules. It's better to be safe and follow the strictest standards beyond what is legally required. Anything else is a liability waiting to happen, and there's nothing in it for the vendor regardless of whether or not they trade profitably.

You can dislike that all you want, but all I'm doing is explaining why it is what it is. You're looking for something that's never going to exist, and if you find it the chances are you're being fooled.

Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)
 iq200 
London, UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Tradestation
Broker: Kinetick, InteractiveBrokers
Trading: Equities, Futures
Posts: 408 since Jun 2010
Thanks Given: 145
Thanks Received: 278


forgiven View Post
i have never seen one vendor that can trade ...not one



That's because the ones who can trade successfully are trading and don't have time to post on social media or trading forums!

Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on March 22, 2021


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts