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Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?
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Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Big Mike View Post

Google for Larry Williams and NFA CFTC fines, you'll see an example scenario where he was accused of telling students he was profitable, but he maintained two separate accounts -- one was, one was not. I am just paraphrasing, you should do the search to find the exact results and details.

Mike

Sorry to hear that about Larry Williams. Just goes to show again, nothing can be fully trusted. I'm beginning to hear
more radio ads for trading schools like OTA (Online Trading Academy) and some other "trading gurus" promising extra "monthly income" no doubt to advertise to everyone in desperate straits from the media pushed false "recovery" and the dire economic times for the middle class. Usually the ads start playing after 9pm. Larry Williams was even mentioned as an example in an ad. Far better chance to learn how to trade profitably from resources and links from places like futures.io (formerly BMT) than any of those radio vendor ads for the masses.


Last edited by Cloudy; June 11th, 2013 at 11:48 AM.
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  #22 (permalink)
AKA JiveTrader
san francisco, ca
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
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Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 41 since Jan 2013
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regarding OTA, hope this helps and isnt too irrelevant-

sam seiden's articles, though repetitive and partially PR for OTA, greatly helped me understand suppy and demand. fitting this into my style of trading turned out to be a missing link in my system. i was very grateful so when they came to town about 6mos ago i checked out the free mini intro session.

i ended up investing $200 in a 3-day hotel seminar weekend and it was money very well spent. not only for the new ideas and structure they bring to the markets (can't speak for their execution/track record and dont care) that i could take and make my own, but mainly because it refreshed my head at a tough time.

since they have to cater to general folk/non-traders it was remarkable how deep they managed to get into some of their concepts. certainly enough for an experienced trader to add a few tools and increase my world view about trading for a living, like diversifying with long term strategies as well.

i try not to judge little purchases like this too much, i just try to get something worthwhile out of it. sometimes it's not information, it can be motivation or some other reason.

definitely got more than the $200 worth and the 2 long days. as far as signing up for $20k worth of trader education, um, thats where i draw the line...

cheers


Last edited by djarum11; June 14th, 2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: my 2yr old
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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
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Sounds like you got a great deal for a 3 day seminar for only $200. And you weren't constantly approached and pressured to sign up for more expensive materials during that time? But great that it worked out for you for that weekend seminar.

There are horror stories about OTA reviewed with the seeming consensus that the organization is mostly about their marketing and sales. Many get caught up spending at least $4k to $6k for the "basic course".

Forums - Warning: Online Trading Academy (tradingacademy.com)
(the thread also discusses the question of "proof")

More recently:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182218&perpage=6&highlight=online%20trading%20academy&pagenumber=80


Last edited by Cloudy; June 15th, 2013 at 06:24 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)
AKA JiveTrader
san francisco, ca
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: stage5
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 41 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 25 given, 29 received

yes actually you are pushed in a sense of sitting down with someone and 'reviewing each other' to see if u r a good fit. it is easy for them to not accept everybody (and therefore look more exclusive) because some audience members were completely out of touch and would not be good students. when i heard they let a guy in and were going to give him $20k financing after he just had a bankruptcy and a new baby, and this was just over a quick conversation no paperwork/formalities whatsoever, it sounded more shady, almost loansharkish. also you could just avoid the 3rd (last) day which is where the heavier sales pressure comes on.

ppl love to worry and talk about the problems of things like this but dont get caught up in that. evaluate it for what it is, for yourself. u might waste time and have to drop out of some new stuff but other stuff will make it worth it. effort in, results out:

if you are clear about your goals and your budget and u take responsibility for your own decisions then no one can really pressure you into anything. really a prerequisite for trading in the first place right. confidence comes from a broad perspective on what you really want in life and making sacrifices for it. boy do i digress

everyone needs diff input at diff times. but i was actually so impressed with the the gaps OTA was filling in to my trading approach like the focus on long term financial planning, trading options, strategy tips, etc. that i was ready to sign up. but the cost is ridiculous so you go home, do some research, find all this negative stuff about them, then u get more realistic and say do i want to deal with that, if that happens to me (constant sales pitches, underqualified instruction, whatever) or u incorporate the good stuff from what you just paid for over the tryout period and u leave it at that. no hard feelings

so i say if interested, take it for what it is and deal with some sales BS. have a plan X (excuse) in case u get really annoyed. just be smart and practice being level headed. this is what we need most for trading anyway

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  #25 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,023 since Jul 2011
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Interesting to hear that they still did the upselling pitches . Sure, everyone can make their own judgment and decisions based on their current experience and it's good to be informed by other reviews beforehand if nothing else to gauge what is overcharged and how OTA operates in many cities and the turnover of their own instructors. Now the ads are airing more often, with OTA just one of them.

Lots of free info on the web can be learned instead of what OTA promises. Plus our own journals here on futures.io (formerly BMT). Like this thread of links for instance:
https://futures.io/beginners-introductions/23361-introductory-trading-videos.html


Last edited by Cloudy; June 15th, 2013 at 09:39 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
Prince George BC Canada
 
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Big Mike View Post
I agree. And those who are consumed by chasing vendors instead of learning how to trade for themselves are doomed to failure.

If you cannot think for yourself, you stand little to no chance of being able to beat the best traders in the world. I assure you, they are leading -- not following.

Mike

Isn't this the catch 22 situation that most find themselves in? How does one learn to trade for themselves? If vendors don't teach trading who does?

I keep hearing that 95% fail. I hear you need 10000 hours of screen time to become a successful trader.

The tuition that the market charges for your education is very expensive. I can attest to that.

I hear that you have to find a mentor, but if successful traders are few and far between how do you manage that?
The other side of the coin is that many aspiring traders want to be told what to do and are not willing to do the work required to become successful.

I know I have offered to help several traders but as soon as I mention developing a trading plan and trading it on demo I don't hear from them again. Why do I offer to help? Because no one offered to help me when I started and I sure could have used the help.

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  #27 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 58 since Aug 2010
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In the 5 years that i've been trading I learnt that most of these people selling and advertising these PDFs, systems, methods, programs, DVDs, etc ,etc. They are horrible at trading and make absolutely no money but they are very good teachers.

Its 100 times easier making money in this business by teaching others how to trade than it is to actually make money trading.

Many traders have traded for years and failed, instead of just moving on they want to sell their experience and ideas and get something out of it.

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  #28 (permalink)
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adaseb View Post
They are horrible at trading and make absolutely no money but they are very good teachers.

How can that be?

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  #29 (permalink)
Elite Member
knoxville tennessee usa
 
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Broker/Data: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Favorite Futures: ym
 
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is the educator realy a trader???

any educator or trader calling trades with out showing there dome and swining size ....assume they are in sim and most likly can not trade ...

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  #30 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin/TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: ES, TF
 
Posts: 25 since Jun 2010
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Cloudy View Post
I think for newbies, seeing proof at least once is essential since so much of vendor offerings is unregulated and dubious. But then just seeing proof once is enough. Just to reassure all this retail trading isn't a scam and there is actually a pot of gold (or some extra federal reserve notes) at the end of the rainbow for each individual trader. I no longer need proof to see it's possible. Then it's still the beginning of the journey, realizing a lot of hard work and experiencing pitfalls and drawbacks to get to the dream level of success.

A couple of vendors who show results:

Valhalla Futures - Daily Trade Blog ( a free room via icq. I saw the results were true )

Live Trading Room | Scalping Futures | Trades Results

update: of course Big Mike, these are few in the haystack out of many which I believe are true results and journals. I have seen many other tricks to fake results listed on other sites.

I don't even recommend those sites' products. Just to take a look at their journals. I never bought either of those sites products. Just a free trial on winborn and the free icq room on valhalla.


The thing about winborn,, is you can't see that a day of +$150 ,,, you may of gone down $1000 first!

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