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Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?
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Vendors providing P&L PROOF!?

  #11 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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Cloudy View Post
A couple of vendors who show results:

Valhalla Futures - Daily Trade Blog ( a free room via icq. I saw the results were true )
Live Trading Room | Scalping Futures | Trades Results

Where the posted results also true from Winborn?

What troubles me about posted "results" is the lack of verification. Are those results Demo or Live? The difference is huge since price doesn't have to trade through to get filled in Demo mode.

Also, I was in a room recently that bragged about their Live trading and showed a DOM to prove it; unfortunately, the DOM was in SIM (but colored to look live) and the actual account number was an AMP fake.

Be skeptical and always kick the tires before committing.

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  #12 (permalink)
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SarahKrantz View Post
Where the posted results also true from Winborn?

I can only say the results I saw for a few days in the room on winborn confirmed what the recent posted results showed. He does the whole NYSE session like Al Brooks. But I know that's only a few days I saw. From what I gather, there is no training, just calling trades in a room on a bare chart. His daily results: http://www.winborntraders.com/2013-Daily-Results.php

I spent more time in valhalla , a couple weeks. Valhalla's room is free, but the host only calls trades and does not teach. But from what I could gather I felt I didn't need to pay 3k for his training course as I felt for me it was unnecessary since I've found my own ways to trade and I felt the host's style of trading didn't fit my own either.

I spent three months in Al Brook's live trading room. But as those of us who had been there know, and others may have heard, Al never calls trades, or marks entries and exits. Sometimes he may go over a few trades in recap. But he doesn't even mark entries or exits after the fact either. The learning process of entry location and managing ongoing trades is also effectively non-existent in his room as there are no precise entry examples.

There are probably other rooms out there of course that has pages of results. Eventually one can learn to sniff out which are legit and reflective of real trading. I have the feeling that Valhalla is live trading and not sim moreso than winborn. Of course impossible to tell as the results are not statements and one can't discern if the screen or calls are live trading. But among other rooms I've visited or trialed, these two were had the most sensible "proof" comparably.

Of course now that I think of it, I feel one many only need proof once from a successful trader. Then no need to after that. For me it was seeing CJBooth get winning trades in succession that convinced me it was doable. Whatever room , vendor site or method is explored one should decide for themselves if they can learn something there to help their own trading, proof or not, as most sites don't even bother with proof or a public trading journal, but have plenty of ad material.


Last edited by Cloudy; May 2nd, 2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)
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Hello,

I still do believe it total transparency of anyone charging for their services/techniques/systems that requires placing your capital at risk!

Like Big Mike says, even when the data is provided, chances are it was doctored!!

Ultimately, it all boils down to, "buyer beware"!

With the above being said, I must thank Anthony for a very valuable lessen I learned from his Webinar:

"Find the sweet spot of profit targets.....then slowly increasing your size in what you participate with...lot easier to get 4 ticks with 4 contracts then 20 ticks with 1"

"Risk management is not the size you trade, it is how you exit your losers!"

Once you build a steady, consistent success rate of 4 to 8 ticks (market cycle), increase the contracts, scale out during the "sweet spot" range, and let the last 1+ contracts go for the potential home run!

Thank you Anthony!!

Joseph

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  #14 (permalink)
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Not sure if this is the correct place to post this question. Was wondering if anyone had dealings with Precision Trading Systems? The guys name is Roger Medcalf. He has one that's looks interesting called Mach Trend indicator. Thanks for any input.

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  #15 (permalink)
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tech1043 View Post
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this question. Was wondering if anyone had dealings with Precision Trading Systems? The guys name is Roger Medcalf. He has one that's looks interesting called Mach Trend indicator. Thanks for any input.

No you need to create a new thread in the Vendors section.

Mike

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  #16 (permalink)
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There is a market for selling "systems" to people to trade, because so many people want one. And I would bet that there are many profitable businesses that sell systems. People buy al kinds of things that don't really carry any value, and for some businesses, providing value is not their objective. They are there to sell something, and if there are enough people wanting to buy, they make a living. That concept is not going away any time soon.

But Market Delta's Footprint is not a system. Footprint is an indicator, a view of the market, a filter. How could there be any results to post?

Buying the best set of golf clubs does not make the golfer a pro. But if you have practiced until you have become a great golfer, a change in clubs might make a noticeable difference to your performance. Buying the best bait does not guarantee catching fish. But if you have learned the art of fishing, having the right bait can mean the difference between a great day and getting skunked.

The more seasoned a trader is, the more they understand what that indicator can and cannot do for them. Their expectation shifts from it being something that will solve all their problems, to just something to make them just a little bit better. And that is what footprint offers.

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  #17 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Don't fall prey to websites who publish results. In virtually every single case I've ever seen, the results are faked to prey on the inexperienced who don't know better.

Mike

Unless they post their account number or statement straight out of broker instead of typing numbers in excel? I had spent $$$$$ in trade room fees and buying indicators and system only to find later that virtually all of them are available at bmt; some of the indicators I paid for were actually straight out of bmt with name changes.

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  #18 (permalink)
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EastCoastTrader View Post
Unless they post their account number or statement straight out of broker instead of typing numbers in excel?

Let's say that guy did post a copy of his broker's statement. A profitable trader with his account in lights may actually use Market Delta footprint, but I am nearly certain that is not the only thing contributing to his success. Nor would it be the only thing that would to yours.

Let's say Tiger Woods shows you which clubs he uses for which shots. And you might go buy those clubs, and they might be great clubs. But Tiger Woods showing how much money he has made golfing has nothing to do with how much you might make.

Trading is not red light / green light. It is a skill. So posting results is pointless, unless you are buying a black box system and plan to let it do it's thing and never touch it. But that is not becoming a trader.


Last edited by GaryD; June 9th, 2013 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Market Delta
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  #19 (permalink)
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EastCoastTrader View Post
Unless they post their account number or statement straight out of broker instead of typing numbers in excel? I had spent $$$$$ in trade room fees and buying indicators and system only to find later that virtually all of them are available at bmt; some of the indicators I paid for were actually straight out of bmt with name changes.

No. It is not enough to even post statements, or even to talk to a broker directly with permission from a vendor.

All of it can be easily faked and does not show the whole picture of someones trading. Probably the only true way to know would be to look at their tax returns, but of course it is still possible they will lie to the government.

Google for Larry Williams and NFA CFTC fines, you'll see an example scenario where he was accused of telling students he was profitable, but he maintained two separate accounts -- one was, one was not. I am just paraphrasing, you should do the search to find the exact results and details.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
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  #20 (permalink)
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GaryD View Post
Trading is not red light / green light. It is a skill. So posting results is pointless, unless you are buying a black box system and plan to let it do it's thing and never touch it. But that is not becoming a trader.

I agree. And those who are consumed by chasing vendors instead of learning how to trade for themselves are doomed to failure.

If you cannot think for yourself, you stand little to no chance of being able to beat the best traders in the world. I assure you, they are leading -- not following.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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