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How to get funded as a trader


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How to get funded as a trader

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  #1 (permalink)
isty12
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I'm wondering if anyone can help with some ideas on how to get funded for trading. If I have been positive trading every month for lets say 6 months to a year (on a sim account), are there any companies that would fund your trading and do a split of the profits? I know that TopStepTrading does something like this once you prove yourself, but I trade the DAX and that is not one of the markets that they trade. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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  #3 (permalink)
 wldman 
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work a couple twotree jobs and save some money?

There are a few local shops in Chicago that will hire inexperienced (no track record) prop traders on a split. The foil in that, based on your question, is you have to trade their method and the product they ask you to trade.

The trader puts up like $2000 and that covers the "educational materials". I do not think this is what you are looking for.

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  #4 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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isty12 View Post
I'm wondering if anyone can help with some ideas on how to get funded for trading. If I have been positive trading every month for lets say 6 months to a year (on a sim account), are there any companies that would fund your trading and do a split of the profits? I know that TopStepTrading does something like this once you prove yourself, but I trade the DAX and that is not one of the markets that they trade. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

There are not many groups out there who will fund a paper trader. It is hard getting funded, even if you are trading with real money.

As @wldman said, your best bet is to get your own capital to trade. The added benefit of this is that since it is your capital, you might be more careful with it. Disadvantage is you might be too emotionally attached to it.

I hope you realize that sim trading is, at best, a poor substitute for real money trading. At worst, it is completely uncorrelated to real money performance.

If I had limited capital, I'd probably start with mini or micro Forex. Some places have it where 1 pip = 10 cents. You could then bump your size up as you made profits.

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 liquidcci 
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isty12 View Post
I'm wondering if anyone can help with some ideas on how to get funded for trading. If I have been positive trading every month for lets say 6 months to a year (on a sim account), are there any companies that would fund your trading and do a split of the profits? I know that TopStepTrading does something like this once you prove yourself, but I trade the DAX and that is not one of the markets that they trade. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Better have a big account if you trade the DAX. That's all.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #6 (permalink)
 Brewer20 
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isty12 View Post
I'm wondering if anyone can help with some ideas on how to get funded for trading. If I have been positive trading every month for lets say 6 months to a year (on a sim account), are there any companies that would fund your trading and do a split of the profits? I know that TopStepTrading does something like this once you prove yourself, but I trade the DAX and that is not one of the markets that they trade. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Is it possible for you to apply your techniques to markets Topstep supports?

Plan your trade, trade your plan.
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  #7 (permalink)
 wldman 
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to a year profitable on SIM.

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  #8 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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AFAIK TST is planning to add EUREX products to the Combine "in the future"...but if this takes the same amount of time as they need to get NT up and running,
I'd rather agree to previous posts suggesting to better have a big account on your own or adapt your strategy to a permitted instrument...

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  #9 (permalink)
Sirobby
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On the weekends I cut grass, collected aluminum cans, did odd jobs, for about 2 years to build an account. All the while paper trading. I opened a small account and currently trading mini-contracts. Like the man said, once your are "Live" with real money, it's a different ball game than PT.

Sirobby

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  #10 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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As many people have said, once it's your (real) money, everything changes, compared to sim.

The TST Combine manages to get close to the feel of live trading, with their strict loss limits and having to put some money up first. If you can switch your style over to one of their markets, there is a possibility of funding at the end of it. But it can be very challenging, even to experienced traders.

Otherwise, there just isn't anything like having your own money in the market. If you can find a way to start an account and trade very carefully -- with very good loss control -- you will learn more than with any amount of sim trading. It can get expensive, however. But at some point, you will need to get off of sim. It can be unexpectedly rough, but it will teach you trading.

Hope things work out well for you.

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  #11 (permalink)
 whatnext 
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Maybe start a journal here where you can have a track record developed for calling winners in advance (no editing for typos).

Create YouTube vids explaining your rational and how they went. ( Don't over sell it). Start a twitter account.

Reach out to ppl in the biz and see about certification requirements. All stuff I should do bc good luck getting rich not also trading other ppls money. I wasn't proactive enough in a good opportunity for moving to the UK last year and if it went well one great trade could have meant more profit than ill make in.... who knows

If you picked fake money winners based on what an actual market was doing - don't let someone tell you that doesn't matter bc it's not real $ - you will have ppl saying you shouldn't be nervous or stressed when you are.

Don't let it screw up doing well with another job though.

Good Luck.

ETA: good point about fills. Might not be scalping so close that its a huge deal.

"Be right and sit tight." - Jesse Livermore
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 indiantrader 
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Here are other 2 I know of

http://pulsarcap.com/
https://www.futex.co.uk/

Futex is well known in London.

One thing to mention about sim trading, the fills on sim are enforced and do not correspond with live fills.One could make a lot on sim but not on live account on Ninjatrader.

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 aquarian1 
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I think there are many firms posing as prop firms and really making money on fees, courses etc and by the time someone passes their criteria they already have enough money from them to supply the stop-loss portion of the funding account.

So once you have a lead on a firms name I think you'll have to do web searches on their reputation

e.g "xyz prop trader scam" etc.

here is an article I found for you.

Proprietary Trading Careers: 101

good luck

..........
peace, love and joy to you
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 Jura 
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isty12 View Post
I'm wondering if anyone can help with some ideas on how to get funded for trading. If I have been positive trading every month for lets say 6 months to a year (on a sim account), are there any companies that would fund your trading and do a split of the profits? I know that TopStepTrading does something like this once you prove yourself, but I trade the DAX and that is not one of the markets that they trade. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Given that index futures are highly correlated, I don't see why your DAX strategy won't work on other index futures that TST offers. Or are you using some model that for some reason only works on the 25 most liquid German stocks?

If your strategy fails miserably on other index futures, I'd seriously consider dropping it all together and creating something else. By the way, just wondering, have you performed backtests as to why your strategy only works on the DAX?

I think this warning is worth re-quoting:

liquidcci View Post
Better have a big account if you trade the DAX. That's all.


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 wldman 
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a robust method is one that works across the product spectrum and on any time frame. My concern for the OP is that I see a little too much "me"....my system, my trading etc. While that may be a fantastic method and really working well for the OP, it is SIM. I do not say that to discourage. Simply noting that the emotion of trading real money is a different animal, as are slippage and commission.

Most guys in the business of taking on new prop traders want things done their way. I have never seen, except for cases of wealthy family support, the here I am, this is what I trade and this is how, supported with business risk capital.

Here on futures.io (formerly BMT) I became aware of something guys where calling $500 margin. It was a new term for me, but I guess that there are firms that will allow you to open a spot forex account and trade live against a $500 deposit using a $1000 face amount for USD denominated pairs. While this is not a high probability outcome, making it on a $500 account, it is a shot at the title and it is hundreds of times better than being a SIM trade tycoon.

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 whatnext 
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It might be a little much telling someone with one post and whose track record is mystery to all but him; that there is too much "me, me, me" talk.

"Be right and sit tight." - Jesse Livermore
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 cme4pif 
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Hi;
I would agree with many of the post you read above, you might not like what I am saying, but I want to prevent you and other readers from getting "taken".

1. Many firms that let you "trade with there Money" have little hidden strings, like it must be though there trading floor that has high "fees" commissions, desk fees, data feeds. A level 3 feed Bloomberg terminal is a very expensive way to draw a chart. Also in the fine print you may find that if you loose the money you owe it back. So that is not their money, unless you win, if you loose, it is suddenly "your loan" you are playing with . . . A free lunch is rare, if you get a cut of the profits it normally comes with a cut of the risk. The safe way to trade with other peoples money is to join a big hedge fund or investment bank. Unfortunately when you do that you mostly are just executing orders on behalf of clients. It is not so much fun to spend a morning trying to unload 100,000 shares of Apple as close a Vwap as you can get. Or worse the bond desk. . . snore.

2. You mentioned you were profitable for the last six months. Sorry to say, but that is not that hard to do, this has been a raging bull of a market the last six months. I have 30 years in. The markets right now look like a beautiful maiden, she has a nasty green witch side too . . .

I hate to be a downer, but it is a world of "Buyer Beware".

- Safe Trading

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  #18 (permalink)
 zebidee 
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I wouldn't be put off by TST if you can adapt to their products. They have a series of parameters you have to adhere to which helps to turn you into a disciplined trader. You also don't start on too much and you have a small financial investment in the sim stage, so the progression is gradual. I think they have the right idea and they are not about fleecing you by extracting course fees, their fees are very reasonable for what they do. If I were you, I wouldn't get too involved in their courses and forums - just way too many opinions! If you are profitable, just focus on what you do, but that probably goes without saying.

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  #19 (permalink)
 traderlange 
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If you want to learn how to trade with low investment yet, feel the pain of loosing (which you have to do), do a few TopStep combines.

If you're constantly profitable, put some skin in the game as well. Fail, blow out your account on a single bad trade, pick yourself up and repete. We've all done it. And if you somehow start live trading and are doing it for a living in less than 2-3 years without going insane, you're in the top 1% of all day traders ever.

Below is a short list of prop firms that will 'possibly' fund you without at least a 5-10+K deposit. just pick up the phone and call them all. You have to be aggressive when you're essentially looking for something for nothing. Most prop firms will require capital (as the should if they are willing to provide liquidity) but you'll have to trade their way on their platforms using their training program. Which is not a bad thing. You'll always be learning now matter how you choose to trade.

Blue Point Trading - Proprietary Trading Firm is one I find very intreaging. I had a great conversation with the owner William this morning. We actually traded the CL via skype this morning during our first convo, Super sharp guy with a quite unique way to get funding for trading. If you understand what they are doing, from a business prospective its brilliant. More inovative than any prop I've seen.

It takes longer than say a TopStep but, their 'vetting' rules are not as strict but it will take a good 6months to start really earning money. Not a bad thing though.

And the Dax will wipe you clean faster than the GC if you're your not careful. My recommendation. Open a small futures account and chart/build your plan and strategies with the CL, and buy the QM. Never chart the QM. It's basically the same derivative just less volatile with much less liquidity - but it moves with the CL. W/ Lower margins. And with a 5-10K account you can put your money here your mouth is. You'll most likley loose it if you've only traded paper, but that's a good thing. You must fuck up to learn this business. You'll likley do it more than once.

The CL is the traders contract. Its all I trade. And while your 'Really' learning how to trade - the psychology needed is 80% of it and the only way to know if you really have the stomach for it, is to start doing it for real.

And start whoring yourself for capital as you start building a tangible track record.

I keep epeting myself, but Do a TopStep combine, trading only the CL and you'll find out what you're really made of and where you need to improve as a trader (or not, you may be that 1%, who am I too say) Many professionals I know can't complete one successfully. People who have published books and make their living trading fail the combine. I'm on my 4th one. I still trade my own money, but while I'm building my own account 1-2 CL contracts at a time, I'm also actively seeking funds from prop firms in tandem. I have not contacted the ones below, but if they have similar programs like TopStep and my new friends at blue point (they are based in France btw) I'm going to 'try out' for all of them as many times as I'm allowed until I get funded properly I.e 200K+ or I manage to do that with my own account.

And never think 'trading' is your only revenue stream. Start selling your live signals on Collective2. If you're not already, become a software engineer and mathematician and program commissioned quant strategies and indicators. (Although the best indicators on the planet are right on this website in the elite section. Without naming everyone, people like FatTails and Zondor are programming genius and give away 100* better work than crap I've bought. There are so many others as well, I just use their work or my own derivation in some way in almost all my trading strategies. I will buy those gents, Big Mike and a few others Ferraris one day.

Anyway, to recap again, start your combines and blue-point, open a live account, sell your signals on Collective2 and write software. And somone in a previous post mentioned starting a blog, write training videos - All while seeking funding. Make yourself and your skills known and available. Doing these things will up your personal stock when a fund manager is considering giving you money. Good luck and I wish you all the best.

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 tflanner 
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Traditum Group in Chicago....spread trading was their specialty...although i have not spoken with anyone there in a few years....my friend had a similar prop shop (no longer though) and they had no problem hiring younger guys with no experience.

good luck. i think prop shop is a good route to go. just don't pay money to be part of it.

edit....Also, Gator trading in Chicago

The Market is Smarter than You Are
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 tturner86 
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Sirobby View Post
On the weekends I cut grass, collected aluminum cans, did odd jobs, for about 2 years to build an account. All the while paper trading. I opened a small account and currently trading mini-contracts. Like the man said, once your are "Live" with real money, it's a different ball game than PT.

Sirobby

I have done similar, donated blood every week, saved Starbucks money, collected change, mowed yards, etc as I built up my risk capital. I literally gave blood, sweat, and tears for my capital. But even with that as soon as the wire is sent, it is gone. It no longer exist, by some grace and patience it may come back in some form hopefully multiplied. If not, it is not a big loss and will not effect my family's livelihood.

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 mfbreakout 
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It's beyond my comprehension as to why anyone will look for a trading career at firms where so called trading firms

do not even have common sense to put a brief bio of it's founders.

I understand for majority of us ( including myself) getting just an interview at top tier firms has no chance for


various reasons. I would rather trade my own account ( with enough equity) vs wasting time with so called trading

firms.

Following is a recent posting from a top tier firm. No trading experience required.

" D. E. Shaw & Co., L.P. offers opportunities for individuals of all backgrounds who display evidence of
outstanding ability and have a track record of exceptional accomplishment.

Requirements:

- Strong quantitative and analytical abilities
- extraordinary communication, negotiation, and interpersonal skills and an exceptional sensitivity to
detail are essential.
- The ideal candidate will have up to two years' general experience with an outstanding academic record
(e.g., excellent standardized test scores and GPA from a top-tier school), and a high level of computer literacy.
- Direct prior experience is not required, but demonstrated interest in and exposure to financial
markets is a decided advantage.

The D. E. Shaw group is a global investment and technology development firm with more than 1,100
employees; approximately $21 billion in investment capital as of October 1, 2011; and offices in North America, Europe,
the Middle East, and Asia. Since its founding in 1988, the firm has earned an international reputation for financial
innovation, technological leadership, and an extraordinarily distinguished staff.
D. E. Shaw & Co., L.P.
1166 Avenue of the Americas
Ninth Floor
New York, NY 10036 Contact Information

212-478-0000


Another one of the best firms worth pursuing is First New York Securities

First New York



NOTE: Not posting bio of founders is just one of the many RED FLAGS. Charging retail comission from it's traders and making money of it's traders from the spread between what a frim is paying and and what it's charging it's

traders is a BIG NO and NO.

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 Itchymoku 
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These simple invigorating questions are good for catching mass participation. I guess it riles people up because most just traders struggle to stay profitable when they had no problem in sim.

R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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Turveyd
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Can you not come up with say $1000 then grow the account over time ? Then you might get an offer if you share your account on some sites, trade off your mobile phone while at work ? or outside of work hours ??


Paper trades have no fear or greed involved, I'm a cool headed paper making machine that until recently fell apart even at $1 per pip ( SAD ), so get some real $$ experience, Pro trade and huge $$'s per pip = SCAREY!!

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 josh 
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Turveyd View Post
Can you not come up with say $1000 then grow the account over time ? Then you might get an offer if you share your account on some sites, trade off your mobile phone while at work ? or outside of work hours ??

$1000 trading account = bad idea
trading off mobile phone = bad idea
trading while at work = bad idea

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Turveyd
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josh View Post
$1000 trading account = bad idea
trading off mobile phone = bad idea
trading while at work = bad idea



Why I'm doing fine and doing all of the above LOL

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 josh 
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Why I'm doing fine and doing all of the above LOL

Give it some time.

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Turveyd
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josh View Post
Give it some time.

2 years so far, how long do I have to wait to see ?


Some phones have big screens, set alerts upper and lower, phone goes bleep that's normal these days, place trade, set more alerts, easy.

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  #29 (permalink)
 Underexposed 
Calgary Alberta/Canada
 
 
Posts: 934 since Feb 2014


mfbreakout View Post
It's beyond my comprehension as to why anyone will look for a trading career at firms where so called trading firms

do not even have common sense to put a brief bio of it's founders.

I understand for majority of us ( including myself) getting just an interview at top tier firms has no chance for various reasons. I would rather trade my own account ( with enough equity) vs wasting time with so called trading

firms.

Following is a recent posting from a top tier firm. No trading experience required.

Another reason to avoid these firms is that the so-called traders they want are nothing more than puppets mouthing what products their handlers tell them to TOUT.

They do NOT want people with trading experience because :

1. you may not agree with the products they want you to sell.
2. they don't want traders because they might have already "failures" at other firms.

they want slimely (IMHO) slick salesmen .... "Wolf on Wallstreet" types who take orders and can BS-Baffles-Brain (triple B approach) the suc...errrr client into parting with their money.

Sorry my bias is showing

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  #30 (permalink)
 TheNewGuy 
Sharm El Sheik/Egypt
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jan 2015

You could always try Tower Hill Trading. They are a recruiting firm for Great capital and take almost anyone.

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