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Viper AT


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Viper AT

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  #31 (permalink)
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF
 
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Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,206 given, 4,327 received


max-td View Post
hey guys,
maybe we can testdrive + report more of those Autotrader from other vendors out there if someone has them available.

i dont think its meant bad or personal against a special company - its just showing how it really is after a backtest with a special product, theire rules + settings.

and our forum is still free + independend - no adds - no industry-partners - no one to take care for - but the truth.

The following is my personal opinion from personal experience. I do not receive compensation from nor have an interest in any company mentioned nor do I have a personal ax to grind .

There are at least two companies that I am aware of that publish performance statistics of commercial systems.

Attain Capital Management Commodity Trading Systems Rankings | Futures System Trading | Attain Capital Management

Futures Truth
Welcome To Futures Truth Magazine

Automated Systems work up until they stop working. Depending on when you measure performance, the same system can look like a winner or a loser. I have never seen one that continued to perform over any extended periods.

If a system vendor offers you a free trial, offer them a better deal, they provide you with their system, train you how to use it and you will split the trading profits with them. See how many accept your offer.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #32 (permalink)
Studio City CA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
 
Pava's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2010
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I lived in a bunker like compound underneath the earth surface for a few years...those were the best days of my life...you cannot imagine what a complete silence does to your nervous system...

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  #33 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Optimus Futures, AMP, CQG
Trading: 6E
 
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Posts: 1,734 since Jun 2009
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Pava View Post
I lived in a bunker like compound underneath the earth surface for a few years...those were the best days of my life...you cannot imagine what a complete silence does to your nervous system...

I could sure use some of that! How do I get there from here? Do they rent by the day, week, month or year (ha ha). Getting older & running a retail biz takes its toll on the nervous system and I don't drink, so my options are very limited. Do you miss it?

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #34 (permalink)
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: NQ
 
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Zoethecus View Post
Another member asked me to post yesterday's results for ViperScalperTF. The parameters were set exactly as recommended by Rich Staiton and set forth in the above post on this instrument.

TF hit the max loss for the day.

aww c'mon did you consistently flip their charts up side down or what.

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  #35 (permalink)
Studio City CA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
 
Pava's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 9 received


TheWizard View Post
I could sure use some of that! How do I get there from here? Do they rent by the day, week, month or year (ha ha). Getting older & running a retail biz takes its toll on the nervous system and I don't drink, so my options are very limited. Do you miss it?

It was a long time ago and far far away...yes I am missing the feeling of well being and peace of the place....

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  #36 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009


ThatManFromTexas View Post
The following is my personal opinion from personal experience. I do not receive compensation from nor have an interest in any company mentioned nor do I have a personal ax to grind .

There are at least two companies that I am aware of that publish performance statistics of commercial systems.

Attain Capital Management Commodity Trading Systems Rankings | Futures System Trading | Attain Capital Management

Futures Truth
Welcome To Futures Truth Magazine

Automated Systems work up until they stop working. Depending on when you measure performance, the same system can look like a winner or a loser.I have never seen one that continued to perform over any extended periods.

If a system vendor offers you a free trial, offer them a better deal, they provide you with their system, train you how to use it and you will split the trading profits with them. See how many accept your offer.

My guess is enough to fill the hole of a donut.

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  #37 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009


cory View Post
aww c'mon did you consistently flip their charts up side down or what.

It's uncanny, isn't it?

Looks like the perfect system to fade.

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  #38 (permalink)
Mobile US
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 11 received

Zoe,

I'm embarassed to admit I was a subscriber to the ViperAT for a couple of months. I appreciate your research and evaluation - only wish I had found your posts prior to subscribing. In the event anyone else posting here - who has not actually used the autotrader strategies live - doubts the validity of your evaluation and observations, I can assure you that I am in full agreement with your conclusions.

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  #39 (permalink)
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 5 received

Thank you Zoe for you fine review of Viper Trading Systems. I too was a subscriber to their Viper and then autotrading software. Although I did well in the initial two months after release of TF it soon fell apart in Dec and has been downhill ever since. The other products are crap also. Thankfully I was in sim on everything except TF in the beginning.

What angers me the most was no guidance as to when these ATer's should be used, other then big news days. Do we look at pre-market, last 5, 10 or 30 days, etc. Paying $299 + $99 should garner more guidance then just don't trade on certain days. I can do better playing craps.

Their latest products, Scalper and AutoassistCrap, are doomed also. Take a close look at the spreadsheet they sent out for Scalper and you will find the risk/reward ratio is very poor.

The initial Viper System I find somewhat useful. For me. it makes sense visually and can be downloaded for free at MyPivots.com (another great site!). I am playing with other indicators and will report back if there is anything worthwhile.

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xlsx ScalperGuidanceSheet(1).xlsx (13.5 KB, 54 views)
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  #40 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009



jgreene View Post
Their latest products, Scalper and AutoassistCrap, are doomed also. Take a close look at the spreadsheet they sent out for Scalper and you will find the risk/reward ratio is very poor.

The AT systems using Viper's official guidance have an average win rate between 50-56%, which is nowhere near what they need to be profitable with those risk/reward numbers, the best of which is 6/5 or risk $120 to make $100. (And that is before the rake of commissions and a $299 monthly fee.)

A trading system with a negative risk/reward is analogous to "laying" odds 100% of the time as if betting on a favorite in a sporting event. It will lead to ruin in short order.

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xls ScalperGuidanceSheet.xls (39.0 KB, 29 views)
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