If you can see the same behaviour on both depth of market platforms, chances are this is a market replay issue.
I have had this issue myself quite a few times with NT7. It is not uncommon on NT7 to have market replay days that are corrupted. In other words the header (L1) and the depth (L2) become out of sync at some point in the day.
I became so frustrated with this issue that eventually I abandoned NT7 and switched to NT8 where this problem has been apparently addressed.
Note: the corruption is often at the source, i.e. on NT servers, so even downloading replay data again won't help.
Replay data on NT7 is a bit spotty. Not sure why that is but the common issues are L2 not being there for periods and the L1/L2 out of synch.
Some days data are better than others. A lot of the time it's perfect.
Tradovate implemented an interesting replay module. There's nothing to download with it - you just set the time and go.
So right now in a head to head comparison - the Tradovate replay wins. Obviously there's a lot more stuff in NT7 though that people are using that's not in Tradovate.
I haven't done a good comparison of the replay data in NT7 and NT8....
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Market Replay data is unusable on NT7 if you need any form of ordered synchronisation (e.g. for a DOM) between bid/ask/last due to the integer second resolution timestamps and the data series storage mechanism. This is a well known limitation that NT8 is supposed to address with the Tick Replay chart mode. The original Gomi indicators were developed because of the same underlying NT7 limitation.
Travel Well
The following user says Thank You to ratfink for this post:
I have a lifetime license - is Daytradr an add-on? If I just want to participate in the Leaderboard, do I need Daytradr?
Is there is a discount for people who already own a license? Thanks.
daytradr is a standalone platform.
If you already own a lifetime license you should have access to daytradr.
Login to your Jigsaw account, go to the Dashboard and you should have this link Jigsaw daytradr (RapidTraderPro) Downloads.
All instruction for install can be found here Help*
To participate in the Leaderboard you need to use daytradr since you login to the Leaderboard through it.
If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
You can't right now - we are hoping to have daytradr hooked up to the OEC/S5 feed by the end of October - at that point all the daytradr features will be available there - including that one!
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
The following user says Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
Quick question if you don't mind. I'm currently doing some drills on Ninja's SIM function and wondered when (if at all) a similar function might be available in Daytradr?
Hi Pete,
Adding on to Trambo's question above.
After watching your recent daytradr webinar I had a look at your Institutional course outline. How are all the replay drills done when the platform doesn't have replay? I have seen a few replies of yours in the past recommending that people screen record their DOMs rather than use the Ninja replay for example because of the 'chunkiness' of the orderflow when replayed. is that improved in Ninja8 or Tradovate replay?
Basically, how does the replay part of the course work?
Thanks.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
The following 2 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
I've not had a chance to catch that webinar - was the development of a sim function mentioned at all? Not that it's a problem if one isn't being developed for Daytradr I just wondered was all.
Me adding my question on to yours got mine answered and yours missed.
Pete had mentioned sim functionality for daytradr over on the Jigsaw forum during the alpha/beta testing phase but whether that is a high priority, low priority or has dropped off the 'to do list' at the current time I have no idea. I can't remember him mentioning it in the video off the top of my head. It is worth watching anyway though.
I'm sure Pete will see he missed your question and answer it next time he is round.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
The following user says Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
Regardless of weather or not replay works well, I highly suggest people just screen record their sessions. It's very easy to do with OBS, and you can just upload the videos to YouTube for storage. I've been doing this now with my journal since about May for bonds. So now there's a record that is available to anyone. It can be viewed any time you want, and you can easily fast forward or replay parts. Even if you don't want to go through the work of uploading to YouTube, you'd be surprised how much video you can fit on modern hard drives.
The following 5 users say Thank You to TWDsje for this post:
I couldn’t agree more. This has been some of the best advice I’ve ever had actually. I use B.B. flashback and it works well, I’ve found the files aren’t too large and have a hard drive just for videos. Very useful for analysis.
Agreed 100%. Also, I’ve uploaded videos to my iPad for later viewing. I had about an hour bus ride to work which I would use to watch these recordings. I have hundreds of hours of ZN/ZB/ZF/UB screen recordings, cut to approximately the first 3 hours of the treasuries open
The following user says Thank You to spideysteve for this post:
Could you briefly explain the idea behind the reconstructed tape? I mean what makes it possible technically to aggregate trades?
On your website I can see only a standalone Daytradr, what about a plug-in to NT? Does it come separately?
Also in case of Elite membership at futures.io where am I supposed to mention it to get a discount?
The CME (and other exchanges as well) are using FIX (MDP x is a subset of that standard).
The standard reports the finest granularity of each order, trade, etc.
So all that order flow tools basically do is reading that data and change the form of summaries,
e.g. by plotting visual signals on charts when the CME data report an aggressor as defined below.
Some examples:
Trade with Customer Orders
Trade with Customer and Implied Orders
One Aggressor Trading at Multiple Prices Against Customer and Implied Orders
My original question referred to the replay that allows trades to be placed so one can actually trade past sessions.
I agree about recording. I like Pricesquawk so I record, on BBFlashback Express, and have the sounds recorded too.
The question is not about how exactly you aggregate, I understand that is your added value. I mean did you check somehow (and is it possible to check at all) if the result tape is relevant? If we see on the tape "80" for example, what is the probability it's really 80, but not 71 and 9, or 41 and 39?
I'm just new to Jigsaw tools and would like to understand it as much as possible and reasonable.
Thanks!
I'm still battling with Market Replay. Sometimes it works, most of the time it's totally messed up. Is there any chance that it will ever get fixed? Thanks
@phantomtrader this is not a Jigsaw issue. It's a NT7 issue. If you open a NT7 DOM you will see the same behaviour. This is not going to be fixed by NT for versin 7 because it has been addressed in version 8.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xplorer for this post:
With regard to practicing Drills is Ninja Sim with CQG feed sufficient, or do you think traders should get a dedicated demo feed from CQG to do this inside Daytradr?
As ever thanks for the reply and while I'm on thanks for the presentations at the Mr Top Step open session, I got a lot out of them as I'm sure many did.
For some reason "Open" has stopped automatically populating in the Alert Column, any ideas why this might be? I've looked in the settings and in the user manual to check it wasn't something obvious but can't find it.
My apologies Peter - I've just checked to make sure my version is current and noticed this is mentioned in the release notes for the Ninja Plug In version 5.7. I'll update it and I'm guessing this should sort it.
Hi Peter, will any of the next revisions be able to monitor profit on the DOM as a tick value instead of currency?
And also when you hide your account details, this doesn't hide the account details from the trade window, any chance this could be changed in a future revision please?
I currently use Investor RT for my charting and Jigsaw Daytradr for trade execution. Is there any intention for future releases to show the alerts on the Vista Chart (icebergs, large orders etc)? I used to use Ninjatrader and these would show up on the NT charts.
Also, it would be great if your trade entries/exits would show up as a histogram on the Vista Chart.
Not sure if possible, but a handy feature would also be to be able to draw some basic lines on the Vista chart.
Thanks for a great platform.
The following user says Thank You to Mrchips for this post:
Hey guys, apologies if this has already been covered. I'm new to jigsaw and curious if there is a resource for the JTrelative volume indicator for the cumulative sheep index available for NT8 yet? I'd also like to run the NYSE tick but I'm not sure how to run this on NT8 and don't know if my data feed through topstep will be sufficient to make this happen?
I think I can help you with the Tick connection. When I was with TST I was not able to get that access. I had to go through my primary account connection and pay the extra index fees to get access. So when I was running it, I had the connection to TST running as well as my personal account, just so I could get access to the Tick.
The following user says Thank You to usdivers for this post:
Thanks for your reply. I think what I'm understanding is that I can simply run the NYSE average tick through a chart in Ninja Trader on my personal feed? Is it currently possible to run the NYSE Average Tick Indicator in NT8? I've tried the link Peter left on the Jigsaw website but it tells me that it is for an older version of Ninja Trader when I try to import.
As Pete said, somebody, @tradertom2012; has already coded it and put it in the Downloads/Indicators section. I haven't used it but the feedback is all positive.
I don't know whether linking to the indicators is the right thing to do so just go to Ninjatrader8 Indicators and use the keyword search at the top left and select Volume.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
The following 2 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
i am using price action for my trading with little success. you may say my account is positive only.
i want to go my trading on next level with Order flow but little knowledge about order flow & market profile, i have done some courses on india related to market profile & orderflow. i have spent little time with Gomi, Fin-Alg.com software but still unable to develop any fruitful system with these stuff
you may that actually i am unsuccessful due to my knowledge about this stuff, can you guide me about this?
i wanted to use your NT tools for this but
are your webinars on futures.io enough for develop a good trading system or i have to take your knowledge section too?
I think a lot of people fail because they are trying to use order flow in locations that no-one should trade - like attempts to trade at the low of the day.
Are you in India? If so - we have a version for Indian markets to test - I might throw in some freebies if you help with that!
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Thanks for the heads up. I'm aware of how to add an indicator to a chart and how to import an indicator from an external file, however, I can't seem to figure out how to search for indicators within the NT8 database?
Anybody mind pointing me in the right direction?
EDIT: Just realized you were suggesting a search within Futures io. Currently gone through the first 15 indicator/downloads pages and counting. Search for tradertom2012 didn't yield much. Will let you guys know if I find it
Relative Volume aka CSI (Cumulative Sheep Index)
I have had this indicator converted from NT7 for use on NT8
This indicator shows volume at the time of day relative to the prior n days. This is very useful in terms of identifying when volume is …
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
The following 4 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
Hi Peter
Having signed up, I recieved this from you in my email (below) and am wondering if it will be recorded, as it is 5.am my time:
"We also happy to announce that we've been asked to present, along with other guest speakers, at a webinar hosted by Traders Talk Live on Wednesday, February 28, 2018. Traders Talk Live is a platform for beginners and advanced traders to learn about trading strategies, tips, and more.
At 1:00PM EST, Jigsaw Trading will be presenting "Order Flow: Keeping It Simple, Practical & Effective." In this free webinar, we will take a look at why you might want to use Order Flow in your trading. We will introduce simple, yet effective methods you can use to improve your trading edge. ......."
Thanks
Not sure - it's up to the host whether they record them or now - sort of "webinar etiquette" - I am sure if you register you'll get emails of any recordings...
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
The following user says Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
Everyone is doing OF now. The edge has been blunted. Whats the next great thing after order-flow? I was thinking virtual reality headsets. dayTradr VR?
@LukePoga:: There is nothing after OF. Everybody is trying but only few understand it to use in a profitable way. In my opinion everything is said and everything is done with trading. Understanding auction and where market makers act is basic. There is nothing new under the sun. Just old wine in new bottles.
Have Fun Mate!
The following 2 users say Thank You to watrader for this post:
Nothing has been blunted. But the tap of naive retail traders has been drained as far as those who willing to believe in moon phases, idiot waves and fib-bionics.
I agree!
I work with a lot of traders and I see a few problems recurring
- most people aren't actually serious about it
- most people are looking for an easy way to trade
- most people are looking to predict, in advance, where a market will reverse
It's like the diet industry - there's a million pages full of magic potions you can buy, magic diets, exercise regimes, magic pills....
But set up a web site telling people to eat less and exercise more - no-one will visit it...
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
The following 3 users say Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
I've been going through the Jigsaw training modules, specifically the one focused on trading the open. Curious if you might have a link that could guide me through setting up my session strategies so that I can accumulate the overnight volume profile and then have it reset at 9:30am EST? I'm currently running the jigsaw platform with the default settings and I just realized I'm only getting the volume from 7:00 or 8:00am EST and then it resets at 9:30 EST......as opposed accumulating the volume profile from the entire overnight session, and then resetting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'd really like to take advantage opportunities available at the US open whilst using the most relevant volume profile. I realize this should be a relatively simple task but I'd rather not screw it up!
I think you can disregard my previous post. It seems like it was some kind of one day anomaly where I noticed my NT8 swing chart wasn't matching up with my Jigsaw overnight profile on the DOM. As far as I can tell everything is now behaving as it should.
I tried the daytradr sim functionality in the standalone version on Friday and it worked well. The Journalytix site is necessary to create the sim account and then when you open daytradr that sim account is available in the DOM trade panel account drop down window.
You do though need to ensure that in the configuration options for daytradr you have your correct Jigsaw membership username and password entered (for submitting trades to Jigsaw for the trade data analysis), as daytradr needs to contact the website to access the sim account details you created there.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
The following user says Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
If I create a CQG demo account which has accurate fills, there is no need to go through the process above. I don't understand why this process is needed for the new SIM functionality but is not needed for the traditional CQG sim account.
The following user says Thank You to xplorer for this post:
A CQG demo account is a CQG demo account. It has nothing to do with daytradr. It only lasts for 15 days. After that you need to submit for a new demo.
Daytradr SIM account is a daytradr SIM account. It's not tied to a specific feed. You can use any feed available in daytradr for it.
If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
The following 2 users say Thank You to arnie for this post:
That much I guessed. Don't get me wrong, I am excited about what Jigsaw is doing here. This means that finally I can use my account with daytradr without having to go through the hoops of a CQG demo, hopefully with any product and not just the ones you can trade demo on CQG.
I am merely wondering how the two technologies differ.
The following user says Thank You to xplorer for this post:
So before I bought Jigsaw I never even paid attention to the DOM, well maybe not never but I did not have a good understanding of it. So my questions are the following?
1. Are limit orders not important? Why is when I see a limit order that is 2 to 3 times the normal size more than likely 7 out of 10 times the price will turn around before it even hits it. A good practice of mine lately is to place the bid or ask one to two ticks above the Fat Big Block limit order and it usually gets made then the reversal happens and sometimes there is immediate power in that reversal causing close to 14 ticks right away? I guess I ask this because Video 2 in the advanced course makes it sound like only market orders are important. (See pic). Example I saw this block of 81 tonight I knew that was going to cause a reversal and sure enough it did.
2. The power meter, you make it sound like orders will fill up on it before the price will move. Is that the case? Most of the time it feels like the move of orders happens and then BOOM the price changes direction almost immediately.
Hi,
Anyone here been through Peter Davies' mentoring? I got an email circular earlier saying he was opening up 5 slots for existing users of Jigsaw at a cost of $3,349 discounted by $350 to $2999 (the discount is until Monday). Just wondering about the value of the mentoring program considering it sounds expensive at 6 30-45 minute calls with I assume, most of the work put in by the participant. I've included a copy paste below.
Regards,
iq
A few months ago, we started a mentorship program and took on 10 mentor students. 5 of the students have reached the stage that they will need just a little help going forward, so we are opening up the space for 5 more students. This time round, we are only offering it to existing Jigsaw customers.
There is one important thing I want you to consider before signing up. If you enjoy 'playing' with the market, If you just love the 'gamble' each day - then don't sign up. If trading is a 'fun hobby' for you and not a serious attempt at changing your life - this is NOT for you. Basically, I will suck the fun out of your hobby and you will resist it and it'll be painful for both of us!
For everyone else, I expect each mentorships to take around 6 months. The mentorship will consist of approximately 6 30-45 minute 1 on 1 calls (although the first call may take longer). In the first call, we'll decide on the focus and set a plan/goal for the next 2-4 weeks. In each successive call, we will review the progress (which should be significant) and set the next plan.
For anyone considering this, please understand that you will only make progress if you stick to the agreed plan. No plan will be forced upon you but you will be expected to follow what we agree. If you don't think you can do that, please do not apply.
The cost of the mentorship is $3,349 for existing Jigsaw users.
We will only take on 5 people at this point in time. No exceptions, no special cases, it's a hard limit
For the 5 that do sign up - we are going to offer a sign up discount of $350 taking the price down to just $2999 for existing Jigsaw users. That discount will be available until Monday 25th July, with coupon code "MENTORME".
As soon as the 5 are signed up, we'll disable product from the sign-up forms.To sign up, log in to your upgrade page to sign up.
After signing up - book your first mentorship call on the Jigsaw mentor meeting booking page.
Good Trading
Peter Davies
Jigsaw Trading
Hi - sorry for the late reply - I'm no longer getting emails when this is updated
1 - It's not that they aren't important - but if I had to quantify then I'd say it's about 1/10th as useful as the actual order executions. You can display hundreds of levels of depth on products like CL - but it's silly to think a bid or offer 100 levels out is going to give you any actionable info.
Big depth means someone is playing. As price approaches, it's more important to watch the depth at the levels in front of that one for front running.
But you never know with 100% certainty if they will pull or stay. You also never know with 100% certainty if the market won't run right through them if they stay.
Adding to a level as it trades there is much more insightful than a level that just gets hit. On CL for instance, there's a lot of hedging and sometimes you might see 1 250 lot that gets hit and we move through it. That could well have been a commercial hedger working for an airline hedging fuel costs.
2 - Depends on the power meter - I find it best for trade management. See the balance of trade after entry. Balance of trade in a move is also important as is a massive imbalance.
Stay tuned next week or 2 for some tools that are very specific to order entry.
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Been looking at Jigsaw several years on and off, and always been fascinated by it. Where would one start not having your software yet to get a good foundation of using the DOMs just to get a feel for it? I watched your video where you were trading the 4 markets in correlation, I think Dow, Russel, NQ and ES and just trading by how they moved in relation to one another. I also signed up for your free email lessons, so I know that's a start too.
Anyway, just looking for some direction and foundation to see if I can really get a feel of how to trade with Jigsaw.
One more question. Do you trade just using the DOMs? I know you put out the pre market report with levels etc. So do you use Jigsaw in relation to levels and charts also? And any other general info you could give me or point me to to start the journey.
