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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (Founder) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)


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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (Founder) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

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  #701 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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msull35706 View Post
Thx emini.
I know this for I've passed a $10k combine awhile back...

good luck

Mike S.

Hi Mike, didn't know you had passed it.

Congrats!

Bob.

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  #702 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Big Mike View Post
The rescheduling of the webinar has caused some confusion, and many of you have opted out of receiving important notifications via email on the site. So I am making the below post so that I can point to it for the hundred or so people that have contacted me privately about this webinar.

See the below email that you should have received today, if you haven't purposely opted out:



Here is the link to re-register:
Registration - The Path to Funding: How to Stop Risking your Own Money and Start Leveraging Others (rescheduled)

Mike

Hi guys,

Well, it's embarrassing but there was another problem today. I'm working with TST today and will be sending out the special coupon code to the members who attended the meeting via email. If you signed up for today's webinar, you'll receive the email from me with the coupon code as soon as I receive it from TST.

We'll also work to reschedule this webinar (third time's a charm) for the first available date, which is in April. We are already testing new software for the webinars and don't expect further issues.

Mike

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  #703 (permalink)
 rocksolid68 
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Hello,

I do not think there is a profit target for the combine anymore, only for FTP. I am in a combine for 50k and at the dashboard it does not say that you need to hit a profit target.

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  #704 (permalink)
emini2000
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rocksolid68 View Post
Hello,

I do not think there is a profit target for the combine anymore, only for FTP. I am in a combine for 50k and at the dashboard it does not say that you need to hit a profit target.

If you go to the link Bob posted, if you click on each 'level', it shows a profit target. For instance the 3 contract one says $1500. If there isn't a profit target, how do you know if you've passed?

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  #705 (permalink)
 rocksolid68 
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emini2000 View Post
If you go to the link Bob posted, if you click on each 'level', it shows a profit target. For instance the 3 contract one says $1500. If there isn't a profit target, how do you know if you've passed?

Here is a picture of my dashboard:

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  #706 (permalink)
emini2000
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rocksolid68 View Post
Here is a picture of my dashboard:

Ok. So how do you know when you've passed? So basically you trade 10 days and just don't go below max loss and you've passed? Just trying to understand how this works.

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  #707 (permalink)
 rocksolid68 
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emini2000 View Post
Ok. So how do you know when you've passed? So basically you trade 10 days and just don't go below max loss and you've passed? Just trying to understand how this works.

I believe that is correct.

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  #708 (permalink)
 msull35706 
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bobwest View Post
Hi Mike, didn't know you had passed it.

Congrats!

Bob.

Yes Bob...
Just keeping a low profile

Besides my style is 'Scalping', which is a bad word on this forum!!!!
And Scalpers can't make consistent profits.. right?

How's your trading going these dayz?

Mike S.

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  #709 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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rocksolid68 View Post
Here is a picture of my dashboard:


emini2000 View Post
Ok. So how do you know when you've passed? So basically you trade 10 days and just don't go below max loss and you've passed? Just trying to understand how this works.


rocksolid68 View Post
I believe that is correct.

@rocksolid68, for your 50 K Combine, you have a profit target of $3,000. It's not shown on the dashboard, which, frankly, is something that TST should put there. But it is a requirement that you reach it. If you don't, it's not a pass.

As one who has tried and not reached it, I am very sure of this.

But this is too important to take my word for it. If you click on this link, https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/learnmore as @emini2000 mentioned, this is what you will see:




You will need to show the required profitability to have a pass.

Perhaps either @TopstepTrader or @Hoag could post a reply here to make it official.

By the way, as a suggestion for @TopstepTrader or @Hoag -- can you put the profit target on the dashboard? I have wanted to see it there for a long time, and this confusion here is a good argument for it. It is shown clearly on the website, but it would be much more clear, and always in front of the trader's mind, if it were shown on the dashboard. I can't understand what the reason would be to not have it there.

Bob.

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  #710 (permalink)
 tturner86 
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bobwest View Post
@rocksolid68, for your 50 K Combine, you have a profit target of $3,000. It's not shown on the dashboard, which, frankly, is something that TST should put there. But it is a requirement that you reach it. If you don't, it's not a pass.

As one who has tried and not reached it, I am very sure of this.

But this is too important to take my word for it. If you click on this link, https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/learnmore as @emini2000 mentioned, this is what you will see:




You will need to show the required profitability to have a pass.

Perhaps either @TopstepTrader or @Hoag could post a reply here to make it official.

By the way, as a suggestion for @TopstepTrader or @Hoag -- can you put the profit target on the dashboard? I have wanted to see it there for a long time, and this confusion here is a good argument for it. It is shown clearly on the website, but it would be much more clear, and always in front of the trader's mind, if it were shown on the dashboard. I can't understand what the reason would be to not have it there.

Bob.

@bobwest you should invoice TST for all the support you offer...

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  #711 (permalink)
emini2000
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Yeah Bob, the screenshot you posted was exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for clarifying.

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  #712 (permalink)
emini2000
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One more question for you Bob:

What is the minimum amount of time one can qualify for the funded account in? I'm assuming 20 days? 10 for the combine and 10 days for the 'preparation'?

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  #713 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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msull35706 View Post
How's your trading going these dayz?

Mike S.

Still plugging at it. It ain't easy, is it?

Thanks for asking. Glad you did it.

Bob.

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  #714 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
One more question for you Bob:

What is the minimum amount of time one can qualify for the funded account in? I'm assuming 20 days? 10 for the combine and 10 days for the 'preparation'?

Yes, you got it.

Twenty days of actual trading, that is.

Just so long as you hit all the targets in those timeframes.

Bob.

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  #715 (permalink)
emini2000
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bobwest View Post
Yes, you got it.

Bob.


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  #716 (permalink)
emini2000
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One more question Bob. lol.

I pay the fee for the first month, and pass the combine, and my 'preparation' runs into the second month. Do I have to pay the monthly fee again?

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  #717 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
One more question Bob. lol.

I pay the fee for the first month, and pass the combine, and my 'preparation' runs into the second month. Do I have to pay the monthly fee again?

No. The Funded Trader Prep is free. You only pay again if your Combine runs over.

Bob.

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  #718 (permalink)
emini2000
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bobwest View Post
No. The Funded Trader Prep is free. You only pay again if your Combine runs over.

Bob.

Sweet. Sounds as simple as it can be, right?

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  #719 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Sweet. Sounds as simple as it can be, right?

Right. Just be a very good and consistent trader. Easy.

Bob.

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 matthew28 
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Bobwest. Agree with TTurner86. You're certainly filling in any gaps here. Good job.

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 Hoag 
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bobwest View Post


You will need to show the required profitability to have a pass.

Perhaps either @TopstepTrader or @Hoag could post a reply here to make it official.

By the way, as a suggestion for @TopstepTrader or @Hoag -- can you put the profit target on the dashboard? I have wanted to see it there for a long time, and this confusion here is a good argument for it. It is shown clearly on the website, but it would be much more clear, and always in front of the trader's mind, if it were shown on the dashboard. I can't understand what the reason would be to not have it there.

Bob.

HI,

Yes, to succeed in the Combine, you must adhere to the rules and meet the profit target.

As always thanks for the suggestions about the dashboard, we will have the profit feature when we launch a new dashboard that will be coming soon.

Hoag

If you have any questions about our Trading Combine or the opportunity to get funded through TopstepTrader, please visit www.topsteptrader.com or contact us at support@topsteptrader.com or 888.407.1611.
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  #722 (permalink)
 rgakalo 
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Hi Hoag,
sorry, if this has been already asked but when do you plan to open funded Forex account and will carrying of positions overnight be available in it?

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  #723 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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I just put up a post in the "other" TST thread, the vendor review thread, which was copied from my reply to a PM asking for recommendations about which Combine to take. Naturally, there's no one answer for everyone, but you can weigh some of the factors to try to get something that works for you, as well as just decide if you should do it at all.

If anyone is interested, you can read it here:

I didn't want to fill up the AMA thread with something that is my opinion.

Bob.

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 Tymbeline 
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emini2000 View Post
Say I chose the 3 lot combine.


Please excuse my interjecting a slightly "cautionary note", but I thought it would do no harm for someone to mention (pedantic though it sounds - sorry!) that that's really a "$30k Combine" rather than a "3-lot Combine".

I know it sounds really nitpicky, when you clearly meant "The Combine in which it's permitted to trade 3 lots" but it's actually quite a significant conceptual difference, the point being that trading the maximum number of lots permitted in any Combine may well be far from the best plan: huge numbers of people, including many with profitable methods, have inadvertently fallen foul of daily loss limits and/or hit trailing maximum drawdown limits that way.

For myself, I wouldn't trade more than a single lot in the $30k Combine, and if wanting to trade two lots, would try the $50k one as a minimum. Most of my own methods require trading a minimum of 3 lots (without which I can't scale in and out as I need to), and in practice I'd try either the $100k or $150k Combines, to do so. The emphasis is very much on risk management, when demonstrating to people that you should be trusted to trade with their funds.

Wishing you good luck with it.

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  #725 (permalink)
emini2000
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Tymbeline View Post
Please excuse my interjecting a slightly "cautionary note", but I thought it would do no harm for someone to mention (pedantic though it sounds - sorry!) that that's really a "$30k Combine" rather than a "3-lot Combine".

I know it sounds really nitpicky, when you clearly meant "The Combine in which it's permitted to trade 3 lots" but it's actually quite a significant conceptual difference, the point being that trading the maximum number of lots permitted in any Combine may well be far from the best plan: huge numbers of people, including many with profitable methods, have inadvertently fallen foul of daily loss limits and/or hit trailing maximum drawdown limits that way.

For myself, I wouldn't trade more than a single lot in the $30k Combine, and if wanting to trade two lots, would try the $50k one as a minimum. Most of my own methods require trading a minimum of 3 lots (without which I can't scale in and out as I need to), and in practice I'd try either the $100k or $150k Combines, to do so. The emphasis is very much on risk management, when demonstrating to people that you should be trusted to trade with their funds.

Wishing you good luck with it.

Thanks.

Yeah, I just couldn't remember which one it was at the time so I identified it by lots.

I think I would rather do the $30k and trade 1 with the occasional 2 due to the lower profit target. And as Bob pointed out, the daily lots resets every day, so that's a good thing. If you get close just quit and trade again the next day.

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  #726 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Tymbeline View Post
Please excuse my interjecting a slightly "cautionary note", but I thought it would do no harm for someone to mention (pedantic though it sounds - sorry!) that that's really a "$30k Combine" rather than a "3-lot Combine".

I know it sounds really nitpicky, when you clearly meant "The Combine in which it's permitted to trade 3 lots" but it's actually quite a significant conceptual difference, the point being that trading the maximum number of lots permitted in any Combine may well be far from the best plan: huge numbers of people, including many with profitable methods, have inadvertently fallen foul of daily loss limits and/or hit trailing maximum drawdown limits that way.

For myself, I wouldn't trade more than a single lot in the $30k Combine, and if wanting to trade two lots, would try the $50k one as a minimum. Most of my own methods require trading a minimum of 3 lots (without which I can't scale in and out as I need to), and in practice I'd try either the $100k or $150k Combines, to do so. The emphasis is very much on risk management, when demonstrating to people that you should be trusted to trade with their funds.

Wishing you good luck with it.

Very good points. Risk control is essential in the choice of Combines.

Bob.

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  #727 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Thanks.

Yeah, I just couldn't remember which one it was at the time so I identified it by lots.

I think I would rather do the $30k and trade 1 with the occasional 2 due to the lower profit target. And as Bob pointed out, the daily lots resets every day, so that's a good thing. If you get close just quit and trade again the next day.

The daily loss limit resets every day, (or actually, although I did put it that way, what's really going on is that it's a daily-only limit; every day has the same limit, and it doesn't carry forward) which I think is what you meant.

But there is still the trailing max drawdown, which never goes away and which is always waiting.

The thing to do is figure out the daily loss you are willing to accept, and that you need as a cushion. The 30K has a daily loss limit of $500. So if you have a 4-point loss in ES, you just lost $200 per contract. Or $400 for two. That means you better not do that twice in a row.

So it is something to work out, based on how you trade and what kind of daily loss you may need to be able to live through. Remember that very tight stops will mean smaller losses per trade, but sometimes also mean more losing trades because they get hit more often. So it's an overall strategic question, and should be approached, I would say, very conservatively.

I would do just as @Tymbeline suggested if I needed to use enough contracts for a scaling-in strategy. I do 50K because I do a 1-contract, all-in-all-out strategy. I would be scared to do the 30K even with one contract.

Now, that's only me. I'm just trying to lay out what I believe makes sense to think about. If you go into the 30K having figured all this out and with your eyes open, and with a realistic consideration of your strategy, how successful it is and what size cushion you need for the losing trades, then no problem.

Bob.

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  #728 (permalink)
 KahunaDog 
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TopstepTrader View Post
* Always implement stops with an open position

Michael Patak


Does this mean you need to enter with an atm? I mean can you manually enter, then set stops and targets?

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  #729 (permalink)
 iqgod 
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KahunaDog View Post
Does this mean you need to enter with an atm? I mean can you manually enter, then set stops and targets?


Trading Combine Rules
1. Trade a minimum of 10 days
2. Trade permitted products and times
3. Do not hit or exceed the Daily Loss Limit
4. Do not allow your Account Balance to hit or exceed the Trailing Max Drawdown

REMOVED:
• Always implement stops with an open position
• Achieve at least 45% Profitable Days
• Achieve an Average Net P&L greater than $0 for each product traded

Thus you need not have a hard stop in the market while trading for the combine, but need to ensure that you do not hit the Daily Loss Limit


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  #730 (permalink)
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Tymbeline View Post
Please excuse my interjecting a slightly "cautionary note", but I thought it would do no harm for someone to mention (pedantic though it sounds - sorry!) that that's really a "$30k Combine" rather than a "3-lot Combine".

I know it sounds really nitpicky, when you clearly meant "The Combine in which it's permitted to trade 3 lots" but it's actually quite a significant conceptual difference, the point being that trading the maximum number of lots permitted in any Combine may well be far from the best plan: huge numbers of people, including many with profitable methods, have inadvertently fallen foul of daily loss limits and/or hit trailing maximum drawdown limits that way.

For myself, I wouldn't trade more than a single lot in the $30k Combine, and if wanting to trade two lots, would try the $50k one as a minimum. Most of my own methods require trading a minimum of 3 lots (without which I can't scale in and out as I need to), and in practice I'd try either the $100k or $150k Combines, to do so. The emphasis is very much on risk management, when demonstrating to people that you should be trusted to trade with their funds.

Wishing you good luck with it.

Why they call it a $30K combine then ? Surely you are not allowed to lose $30K nor you need that much to daytrade 1-3 lots , so whats the point from calling combines $30K or $100K ?

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  #731 (permalink)
pavanb15589
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Surprise View Post
Why they call it a $30K combine then ? Surely you are not allowed to lose $30K nor you need that much to daytrade 1-3 lots , so whats the point from calling combines $30K or $100K ?

It's just to bifurcate the risk strategies. In any case, you are trading their money and just because it's not your doesnt mean they will let you lose 30K... For a 3 lot trade, you dont need more than 1500 to tradw with certain brokers. It's just that a lot can be efficiently traded with 10K with proper risk and management.
Also, once you pass the combine, it doesnt really matter from which combine you come. With scaling plan, you can get more buying power and increase your daily loss limit by speaking with funds department.

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  #732 (permalink)
 moneyflip 
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Just wondering when the coupon code will be sent out to register for the combine. Registered my email with the link provided after the webinar. Haven't received an email yet. Just wondering. Thanks in advance.

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emini2000
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moneyflip View Post
Just wondering when the coupon code will be sent out to register for the combine. Registered my email with the link provided after the webinar. Haven't received an email yet. Just wondering. Thanks in advance.

Same here. The page was a combine for $1 I believe.

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 bobwest 
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moneyflip View Post
Just wondering when the coupon code will be sent out to register for the combine. Registered my email with the link provided after the webinar. Haven't received an email yet. Just wondering. Thanks in advance.

Have had the same thoughts. I guess I should be patient.

Bob.

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 MrTrader 
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moneyflip View Post
Just wondering when the coupon code will be sent out to register for the combine. Registered my email with the link provided after the webinar. Haven't received an email yet. Just wondering. Thanks in advance.

I think the limit time is 48h... would it be... tomorrow?

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emini2000
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MrTrader View Post
I think the limit time is 48h... would it be... tomorrow?

Well it was around 8pm Tuesday, right? So if filled out then, should have something by 8pm tonight. They did say within 48 hours, which I assume means they send it out manually. But the way the two webinars have gone, I wouldn't hold my breath.

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 KahunaDog 
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iqgod View Post
Trading Combine Rules
1. Trade a minimum of 10 days
2. Trade permitted products and times
3. Do not hit or exceed the Daily Loss Limit
4. Do not allow your Account Balance to hit or exceed the Trailing Max Drawdown

REMOVED:
• Always implement stops with an open position
• Achieve at least 45% Profitable Days
• Achieve an Average Net P&L greater than $0 for each product traded

Thus you need not have a hard stop in the market while trading for the combine, but need to ensure that you do not hit the Daily Loss Limit

Thanks for response. To clarify my question is can you manually implement stop after the position was entered?
I am talking seconds after. Not wait to see what price does, just if you have to always use atm which automates your stop.

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emini2000
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KahunaDog View Post
Thanks for response. To clarify my question is can you manually implement stop after the position was entered?

I am talking seconds after. Not wait to see what price does, just if you have to always use atm which automates your stop.

Using a little deductional thinking here, I may be wrong, but since the "Always implement stops with an open position" was removed, that doesn't sound like you have to have a stop. And since you don't have to have one, I assume it wouldn't matter when you actually placed it if you wanted to use one.

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 bobwest 
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KahunaDog View Post
Thanks for response. To clarify my question is can you manually implement stop after the position was entered?
I am talking seconds after. Not wait to see what price does, just if you have to always use atm which automates your stop.

First, you no longer have to have a stop. That was in the old rules, changed the beginning of the year. They recommend stops, but do not require them. So put them on whenever you want to, or not.

In the old days, they were OK with you just manually putting it on in a reasonable time. Now, it's totally up to you.

You can check that stops are no longer mentioned in the rules.

Bob.

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 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Using a little deductional thinking here, I may be wrong, but since the "Always implement stops with an open position" was removed, that doesn't sound like you have to have a stop. And since you don't have to have one, I assume it wouldn't matter when you actually placed it if you wanted to use one.

It was actually discussed in one of their online chat sessions with @Hoag when the rules were changed: you don't have to have a stop any more. They do recommend it, as a safety measure, but that's all.

Bob.

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 KahunaDog 
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emini2000 View Post
Using a little deductional thinking here, I may be wrong, but since the "Always implement stops with an open position" was removed, that doesn't sound like you have to have a stop. And since you don't have to have one, I assume it wouldn't matter when you actually placed it if you wanted to use one.

Edit.
I must've missed that point on the rules change.
You may not have intended to but your comment is facetious.

I always use a hard stop loss. I also Always try to beat my stop loss if the market gives me the eject signal. The issue is once in awhile I don't have ATM entered then I manually input it in.

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emini2000
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KahunaDog View Post
Edit.
I must've missed that point on the rules change.
You may not have intended to but your comment is facetious.

I always use a hard stop loss. I also Always try to beat my stop loss if the market gives me the eject signal. The issue is once in awhile I don't have ATM entered then I manually input it in.

Nothing facetious about it at all. Just answering your question. And it seems I got it correct.

Believe me, I can be facetious. And when I do it's obvious.

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emini2000
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Due to the fact that I am with Infinity, I use their DOM to trade with and don't use their Sierra Charts. I can't use that DOM for the TST combine. I see I can use the RTrader though, but TST says RTrader PRO. Does it really matter whether it's the PRO or the 'normal' DOM? I imagine the PRO has to do with the charting package, not the DOM itself. I assume even if I do a trial with a RTrader DOM for a month, I can still login using the TST login on that DOM.

Answers anyone?

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pavanb15589
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emini2000 View Post
Well it was around 8pm Tuesday, right? So if filled out then, should have something by 8pm tonight. They did say within 48 hours, which I assume means they send it out manually. But the way the two webinars have gone, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Have you traded combine before and the same question to others discussing this topic.
Cos I did receive a mail with the code but guess most of us ain't eligible cos it says that it's for new customers and those who have bought $1 combine before (I bought once in November) are not eligible either. It took 3 months, from November till Jan to save up for the next combine cos I blew my first full paid and the dollar one combine too and now I blew the recent one too, all 50K combines ... Also I went the distance to attend the webinar twice and with my time zone, I need to move a lot of stuff. But still am hoping they will make an exception cos this way people who are already close to cracking combine and getting funded might just be able to. For me it's way too costly to pay for combine again and again and it takes a while before I save up enough to pay cos I am from India and our economy is like that. Hope they really allow all of us to take this opportunity.

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 bobwest 
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If anyone didn't read the fine print on the email for the Combine coupon (I didn't, at first), the terms of the offer are for new customers only:

--------------

*Offer valid for new customers only on the first month of any size Trading Combine. If you have already purchased a Combine for $1, you are not eligible to use this code. We reserve the right to close an account if we believe this discount has been used multiple times by the same person or if the code has been shared with another trader.

Terms and conditions for this offer:

To activate this offer: Enter the promotional code at checkout before February 28, 2016.
Visit online or call 888.407.1611 7am-6pm CT, Mon-Fri. before February 28, 2016 to redeem the credit. Please use offer code:
Your subscription renews automatically every 30 days unless you meet the objective or cancel before next bill date.

---------------

(I deleted the code, obviously )

It's a great deal to have your pick of any Combine for a dollar, but be advised that they are only giving this to new people, which makes perfect sense from their standpoint. They are having a promotion to increase their customer base, and it's extremely generous.

Yeah, it's disappointing if you're not a newby. But that's the deal.

Bob.

Edit: I am not in any way an official source for TST, and suggest any questions should go to their excellent support email, support@topsteptrader.com , or call at the number given.

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 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Due to the fact that I am with Infinity, I use their DOM to trade with and don't use their Sierra Charts. I can't use that DOM for the TST combine. I see I can use the RTrader though, but TST says RTrader PRO. Does it really matter whether it's the PRO or the 'normal' DOM? I imagine the PRO has to do with the charting package, not the DOM itself. I assume even if I do a trial with a RTrader DOM for a month, I can still login using the TST login on that DOM.

Answers anyone?

I would email TST at support@topsteptrader.com or call at 888.407.1611 for any questions like this.

Bob.

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 gregid 
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bobwest View Post
To activate this offer: Enter the promotional code at checkout before February 28, 2016.
Visit online or call 888.407.1611 7am-6pm CT, Mon-Fri. before February 28, 2016 to redeem the credit.

This part is a bit confusing (before February 28). In other part of the same message we have:

Quoting 
HURRY, the code expires Sunday, 2/28 at 11:59pm CT!

Which I believe is the right expiration time - but don't take my word for it.

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 MrTrader 
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MrTrader View Post
I think the limit time is 48h... would it be... tomorrow?

got it.

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emini2000
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Say you hit your loss limit in the middle of a month, and you reset and pay the $100, are you still charged for the combine again at your level at the end of the month, or have you effectively got the next 4 weeks for $100?

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 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Say you hit your loss limit in the middle of a month, and you reset and pay the $100, are you still charged for the combine again at your level at the end of the month, or have you effectively got the next 4 weeks for $100?

Have you gotten the next 4 weeks for $100? Nope.

From the main info page ( https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/learnmore ):

"You may reset this account at any time for $100 by clicking on the "Reset" button on your Trade Report. This will reset your starting balance and rules, but will not change your monthly billing date. "

You basically wipe out all your results so you can start the Combine over, but you don't start over in terms of your payment schedule.

You can also cancel the Combine. (It will end when your normal time is up.) After cancelling, you can then start a new Combine. You have to figure out the balance between time and money to see what the best thing is for you.

Bob.

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emini2000
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Have you gotten the next 4 weeks for $100? Nope.

Dang.

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emini2000
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So, if you're in the middle of a combine, and you hit your max loss, can you cancel, and join again and just start over again without resetting? Otherwise that cost you another $100.

Bob, you just need to give us all your email for phone number for these questions.

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pavanb15589
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emini2000 View Post
So, if you're in the middle of a combine, and you hit your max loss, can you cancel, and join again and just start over again without resetting? Otherwise that cost you another $100.

Bob, you just need to give us all your email for phone number for these questions.

Yes. That's what I do. I dont usually reset. I go in for an entirely new combine and start all over again. But say you hit the max loss within the first 5 or 6 days, then you can probably look to reset which is more of an advantage. Resetting after 10th day is a waste cos you need to trade at least 10 days, so even if you are on way to your target, you will end up being charged by the end of the 30 days. Normally you have 20 trading days in a month.

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 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
So, if you're in the middle of a combine, and you hit your max loss, can you cancel, and join again and just start over again without resetting? Otherwise that cost you another $100.


pavanb15589 View Post
Yes. That's what I do. I dont usually reset. I go in for an entirely new combine and start all over again. But say you hit the max loss within the first 5 or 6 days, then you can probably look to reset which is more of an advantage. Resetting after 10th day is a waste cos you need to trade at least 10 days, so even if you are on way to your target, you will end up being charged by the end of the 30 days. Normally you have 20 trading days in a month.

Yes, you can, and @pavanb15589 explains some of the factors in deciding what to do.

I think the reset makes sense if you have a lot of time left in your current month's subscription, and if you are optimistic about making the target before the next payment date. You've already paid for the month, and you will throw the remaining time away by going into a new Combine. The reset would then cost you less than a completely new Combine.

I think the whole point of the reset is that any benefit you get should cost you something, otherwise part of the value of the Combine (the fact that you have some risk) is lost. You do have two legitimate options for what to do, they will both cost you some money, and you have to balance them out and take your choice.

By the way, I confirmed by email with TST support some time ago that the "cancel and start a new Combine" option is OK under the rules, and was told it was fine. I have done it, and also sometimes have done the reset instead. (Maybe someday I will learn how to trade the thing and I can forget all this stuff. )

As to using me as any sort of source, well, I am happy to add what I can, but all of what I know has come from the TST web pages, and an occasional email to support. (There is also usually a Friday morning chat session with Michael Patak or @Hoag where questions can get cleared up.) Those are much better sources, because they are from the actual source....

(Current schedule for TST "Squawk Radio" -- see "In the Know" at 10:00 AM CT on Friday: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?showPrint=0&showCalendars=0&mode=AGENDA&height=950&wkst=1&bgcolor=%23ffffff&src=73qhmpakuklfuuvep9eu8ddarc@group.calendar.google.com&color=%232F6309&ctz=America/Chicago )

Bob.

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 DELTA007 
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I'm thinking to start a combine. But, before that are the following required?

a. A full license of Ninja trader (I use free version)
b. A good data feed.

Keep It Simple
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 Tymbeline 
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DELTA007 View Post
I'm thinking to start a combine. But, before that are the following required?

a. A full license of Ninja trader (I use free version)
b. A good data feed.


No: both are included in the Combine-fee.

After qualifying for a funded account, you'll then need to pay for both (but it isn't necessary to use NinjaTrader anyway: that's a choice, and many other options are also available - all explained on TopStep's website.)

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emini2000
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So If i'm funded by TST:

1.I need my own feed and charting, correct?

2. I will have to pay professional fees. How do those fees work? Is it $85 per exchange? If I only wanted to trade what was on the same exchange ES is, what could I trade besides ES?

3. And are taxes treated differently than if I were trading non-professional?

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 Tymbeline 
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emini2000 View Post
If I only wanted to trade what was on the same exchange ES is, what could I trade besides ES?


There's a list and an explanation on this page: https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1968878-important-combine-info#Permissible%20Products/Times%20to%20Trade

Sorry to answer with a link, but all your questions above are really clearly answered on TST's website, and if you're thinking of trying a Combine, it's the most authoritative resource there is.

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 bobwest 
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Tymbeline View Post
There's a list and an explanation on this page: https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1968878-important-combine-info#Permissible%20Products/Times%20to%20Trade

Sorry to answer with a link, but all your questions above are really clearly answered on TST's website, and if you're thinking of trying a Combine, it's the most authoritative resource there is.

Yeah, I had started typing out a reply, but then realized that it's all on the site, and it's the real source, and if someone looks there, nothing will creep in that I added by mistake or just by my phrasing that could cause misunderstanding.

I do think that everything in any question on the basics of "how to" will be covered there, and usually better.

That said, there may be a slight misunderstanding in the questions, regarding platform and feed. The platform you will have to pay for by getting your own copy from one of the approved vendors (lists are on the website). The data feed is what you are paying the $85 for. That goes to CME to give you access to data; you won't need to worry about shopping for you own (I assume, but don't know, that TST will handle that. It might be a good follow-up question, or a question you could send to support and then report back on here .)

You're paying a professional data fee because that's one way that CME makes money.

The tax answer is here: https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1971625-profit-info They make a slight error in saying that "you fill out a 1099 Miscellaneous" -- actually, your earnings are reported to you (and the IRS) on a 1099 by them, but that's a detail. You are an independent contractor, and as such the earnings should be "ordinary income." I say "should" because I am not a tax expert and cannot give tax advice, and don't even want to try to answer a tax question. Go talk to a qualified tax professional. Also, there are potential consequences of being an independent contractor, because you have self-employment issues (such as paying both the employee's and the employer's part of FICA -- Social Security, plus filing estimated tax returns quarterly, and other things related to operating essentially a business) -- definitely talk to a tax professional. (I was an independent contractor as a programmer for many years. But I'm no tax guy.)

Edit: here's official info about what a 1099 is: https://www.irs.gov/Help-&-Resources/Tools-&-FAQs/FAQs-for-Individuals/Frequently-Asked-Tax-Questions-&-Answers/Small-Business,-Self-Employed,-Other-Business/Form-1099-MISC-&-Independent-Contractors/Form-1099-MISC-&-Independent-Contractors

However, that is different from what is usually the case with futures trading, I assume (again, I'm no tax expert) because it's someone else's money and you are working for them. If you are trading your own money, this (may) apply: How Are Futures & Options Taxed? | Investopedia

Google is wonderful.

And I have answered more than I said I would, but I'll leave it here in case it helps....

Bob.

Edit: I just emailed TST support about the 1099 statement, so there may be a change at some point. Not a real important thing, obviously. The substance was correct.

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emini2000
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bobwest View Post
That said, there may be a slight misunderstanding in the questions, regarding platform and feed. The platform you will have to pay for by getting your own copy from one of the approved vendors (lists are on the website). The data feed is what you are paying the $85 for. That goes to CME to give you access to data; you won't need to worry about shopping for you own (I assume, but don't know, that TST will handle that. It might be a good follow-up question, or a question you could send to support and then report back on here .)

You're paying a professional data fee because that's one way that CME makes money.

Bob.

Thanks Bob. Don't let others intimidate you into not answering just because they want to leave a link.

So you're saying the data feed is actually coming through TST and that is what the $85 is for, professional data feed?

So is that $85 just for CME data? Looking at the link that Tymbeline left, if I wanted to trade say crude, which is on NYMEX, then it would be another $85? And if I wanted to also add say bonds which are on CBOT, then another $85 on top of that for a total of $255?

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 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
Thanks Bob. Don't let others intimidate you into not answering just because they want to leave a link.

So you're saying the data feed is actually coming through TST and that is what the $85 is for, professional data feed?

So is that $85 just for CME data? Looking at the link that Tymbeline left, if I wanted to trade say crude, which is on NYMEX, then it would be another $85? And if I wanted to also add say bonds which are on CBOT, then another $85 on top of that for a total of $255?

I was agreeing with him, not being intimidated. It's really best to look at the official sources, at least first.

As to the data fees, CME Group now includes CBOT, NYMEX and COMEX as well as "CME". So it's the CME as a group that is setting the data prices for the "products" of those "exchanges". So yes, you could be paying several hundred dollars altogether, depending on what "products" you want to trade. The CME professional fee is $85, but there's a separate hit per "exchange" -- which means you could be paying four fees depending on what you wanted to trade and where it was traded.

Note that ICE (Intercontinental Exchange) is a separate outfit, and their data fee is $110 (as of 4/1/16). So if you wanted, you might pay $85 times 4, plus $110 = $450.

As to "the data feed is actually coming through TST" -- I said, or at least meant, that I assumed they would set you up with a feed. How that is managed, in detail, I don't know. This would be a good question to send to their support.

TST is the feeder organization for its prop firm. The prop firm has the account, and you trade it. They want you to come with a trading platform, one that they are set up to work with (they need to exercise loss control if your losses get out of hand.)

They also want you to pay the exchange data fees. As far as I understand, they connect you with a data provider, and you will have to furnish a credit card for the fees to be charged.

Again, this is the overall shape of it. If you need more info, I suggest asking their support, which has been very good in my experience.

Bob.

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 aquarian1 
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Sorry to answer with a link, but all your questions above are really clearly answered on TST's website, and if you're thinking of trying a Combine, it's the most authoritative resource there is.

LOL

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peace, love and joy to you
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emini2000
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I guess somebody should have written to the originator of this thread then and told them it was useless because we have the TST site to get all of our answers. They should have just had one post with the link to the site then.

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 zcui 
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Just confirmed with TST's support team, it seems like they no longer offer a free month's combine to those who fail to pass FTP.

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Hi guys,

On Tuesday April 26th @ 4:30PM ET TopstepTrader will be presenting a webinar event on FIO:

Title: The Path to Funding: How to Stop Risking your Own Money and Start Leveraging Others

What you'll learn:
- Whether or not you're a good candidate for funding?
- If your trading style or strategy has what it takes to become funded?
- Who our funded traders are, how they're performing and what separates them from the rest
- Answers to any questions you have about being evaluated, trading successfully, and earning a funded account. Nothing is off limits.
- How you can get a funded account for as little as $1.

You can register for the event here (space is limited):
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 cencored 
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I registered. Thanks BM.

I have also signed up to Combine and am looking forward to the challenge.
Pretty much the only issue that I have with their rules is the one requiring me to be flat at or before daily market close. It does interfere with my trading style and although I'm confident I will get through combine, I believe it will have an impact on my results (sometimes requiring me to stay in a trade for more than a day to really milk a trend, which is what any non-scalper will do).

I understand this rule for markets without globex session, but for any 24 hour market such as ES this rule seems unnecessarily restrictive.

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pavanb15589
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TST is giving an opportunity for a lot of traders to earn what they deserve. But in the end, they need to protect what is theirs. Their capital and they have to look for what's good for them.

Let me explain why this rule is a necessary for a TST even though they might not have divulged the information, this is just my theory on how TST works. Again, big fan of TST and have been trying big combines for a while now.

Anyway, here's the theory. According the norms by the SEC or whichever that governs the future trading in USA, a contract may hold 5K in margin from your account to trade. For now, lets take ES and lets consider it to be 5K....
So, you trade a contract, then you hold it beyond the close of the session that day, then it is necessary for you to have 5K in your account to hold it on.

As we know, many brokers offer intraday trading on ES with just 500 dollars. Now, TST is brilliant. Why...?? This is why. TST has made friends with brokers and told them that they want their brokers to code certain rules into their trading or execution system so that when TSTs traders violate, the account gets locked and they have promised them many many accounts as time goes.
The brilliance comes here. Since, TST has asked all it's traders to close out positions before the close of the days trading, it means they do not need to have 5K for a contract in the account. Now, if a trader gets funded, lets consider 150K account for the sake of example here, he can trade a max of 20 lots after a certain profit, but before that, he needs to follow the scaling plan. So, what TST does now is, they have forced trader to start with 3 lots on a 150K account. Basically, cos of the rules of 3K max daily loss for 150K and 4.5 Max dradwown, TST needs to have a max of 7.5K in the account for you to be able to trade the Funded Account initially. Now this 7.5K is because if the trader hits 2999 and 2999 loss limit on the first 2 trading days of live account only but you are still left with 1 dollar for the max daily loss on the second day and you can still open a 3 lot position which is why the rest of 1.5K needed. Now, as the account grows, the scaling plan is allowed, we are building our own capital and TST is pushing us into risking what we have made and their capital becomes safer and safer with our profits. So, say at end of 10th day, a trader has made 5K... Now TST's rule is this 5K shouldnt become 0. When it does, you are stripped off your funded account. So, 5K is what you have made and 5K is what you get to lose and TST gets to lose nothing.

So basically, TST does not need 5K for a contract since it's intraday trading. And since its intraday, TST can have like 500 dollars per contract for you to trade. Since the max drawdown is 4.5K and there are chances that a funded trader might lose on the first two days itself, the only time they are at risk is when a trader loses money on funded account on the first 2 days and this will be max 3K each day or max of 4.5K in 10 days... But once a trader is successful, TST keeps getting returns for many many many many days for just this 7.5K initial startup capital. But in fact we will be feeling like we are trading an 150K account but in real, the actual balance is 7.5K or max 10K in the account and because of the scaling plan, we earn our buying power from our profits. Not TSTs capital. And the returns for this are huge. Returns for such a small capital, if a trader makes 1K, its 200$ and I have a friend who makes 2 - 5K on TST and thats 400 to 1K return daily for a capital of 7.5K.... That is why, TST is one of the best companies in the world and something that will survive for as long as trading exists. Also, TST is a hedge fund in the backbone, considering this business model, they almost have the ability to fund lacs of traders and the startup capital for 150K account is negligible for a hedge fund. 7.5K and many many traders are getting funded lesser than this. Most are 50K Combines. For a lot of you out there this might come as a relief because you all want such a brilliant company to thrive and do good for all its clients. Again, if this is not their business model, then I guess I just hit the bullseye at conceptualizing the best business model.

Hence the close before the end of day and also close before any news on the Live account. I dont think TST will appreciate what I have written here but but I am still a big fan, this is just a theory. May be I am totally wrong. Entirely. But if I were TST. This is how I would have worked out with the Brokers and NT.




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I registered. Thanks BM.

I have also signed up to Combine and am looking forward to the challenge.
Pretty much the only issue that I have with their rules is the one requiring me to be flat at or before daily market close. It does interfere with my trading style and although I'm confident I will get through combine, I believe it will have an impact on my results (sometimes requiring me to stay in a trade for more than a day to really milk a trend, which is what any non-scalper will do).

I understand this rule for markets without globex session, but for any 24 hour market such as ES this rule seems unnecessarily restrictive.


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 bobwest 
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Hi, @pavanb15589,

I would say that your post has hit on some good points, but it is a little complicated.

It might be best if Michael, @TopstepTrader, or John Hoagland, @Hoag, could step in on questions of the TST business model. It's their model, after all.

Just a few comments, for whatever they may be worth:

TST is essentially looking for traders for its prop firm (you can't really call it a hedge fund .) Proprietary trading firms operate in similar ways: they give their traders access to a certain amount of the firm's capital, and impose very tight risk management to protect that capital. They have a percentage split for the profits (TST's split of 80/20 is very good.) They may have restrictions about day trading -- TST does -- or not. In an overall sense, TST is not really that unusual, although the Combine idea for finding traders is an innovation, as far as I know, and their particular policies are, of course, their own.

The balance in the trader's account with the firm is not really what is securing the trades, as it would be in your or my individual account. The firm will have a certain amount of margin in its account with its broker, which, as you said, is between the firm and the broker, and the trader gets to use a certain number of contracts, essentially based on his/her record of success with the firm, up to the firm's risk limit. The trader does not have to maintain any particular balance in the account to support the size he is trading -- unlike in an individual account -- but does have to have a sufficient cushion against losses, which is a matter of his judgment, not a margin requirement or a firm requirement. (But he can't go negative after the first 10 days and keep the account, so good judgment is required.)

So yes, the trader is actually trading a portion of the firm's capital, not just trading based on his account balance or his accumulated profits, which may not still be in the account, if he has been taking them out.

To make it simple, if I take some profit out of my personal account, my allowable contracts go down because my margin has gone down. If a funded TST trader takes some profit out of his firm account, his allowable contracts do not change, because his size limit is not based on the present account size. The balance in the trader's account is not the margin that is used to secure the positions he is taking -- the firm's capital with its broker is. The trader will never know, and will never care, what that balance is, and will not need to know. The trader's account balance starts out at zero, and develops a balance only as the result of his cumulative P&L, less withdrawals, and does not include a margin deposit.

(Edit: If I lose money in my personal account, my margin and therefore my allowable contracts also go down. If a trader loses money in a TST funded account, then based on what the balance becomes, TST may reduce his allowable contract size also -- but not because he has less margin, but because they are less willing to take on the risk of his trading a certain size. While if he withdraws money from a TST funded account, his allowable contract size does not change. It's a matter of how risky it is to keep backing him as a trader, not how large his account is. Sorry, this does get complicated, but that's how it's done. )

Much of the misunderstanding that sometimes comes up on this point is due to people mistaking what is true for an individual account -- that your present balance is what is backing your trade size -- with a trading account with a firm, where the firm's overall balance, not just your account's, is what is providing the margin that is backing your trade size, as well as everyone else's who is trading with them. What they are willing to allocate to you in particular is based on their standards of whether it is a good risk to do so.

As to the day-trading question, yes, the margin requirements for "overnight" trades are set by the exchange, and the day-trading requirements are set by the broker (basically, how much risk it is willing to take on, since the broker will have to make good on all its customers' trades at the end of the day.) So there are margin-related reasons for preferring day trading, as there are for you and me. And TST has elected to only do day-trading, at least for now. For trading strategies that do involve holding overnight, TST is not presently a good choice.

I think that once the differences between the proprietary trading firm model and the individual account model are understood, the complexity goes away and things get simple again.

(If I got anything of substance wrong here, I would be grateful if @TopstepTrader or @Hoag would correct me on it.)

I hope that this will prove useful to someone who has had questions about it all.

Bob.

Edit: I thought it would be good for clarity's sake to add this link to the "scaling plan," the way that a trader's allowable trade size can change, up or down, based on performance. One thing to note is the statement that "Once you reach an increase in buying power or adjusted risk parameters, it will not decrease if you make a withdrawal." Here's the link: https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1950862-funded-trader-scaling-plan

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 cencored 
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Thank you Pavanb and Bob.
This does make sense of course.
I did contact them directly and was told that the reason I cannot hold overnight trades is because they need all accounts to be flat in order to run their trade reports. If accounts weren't all flat, there would be inaccuracies in the reports as obviously there is floating PnL involved.

They did not mention any other reason. To be honest the increased overnight margin shouldn't really be an issue, as it shouldn't in ones personal account.
Or put differently: If you can't afford the overnight margin, you're trading too many contracts for your account size.

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pavanb15589
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Hello Bobwest,


Yes. You are correct. Once you are up in the scaling plan, the buying power does not decrease. But the whole point of my article was to tell that how little capital TST actually allots for a funded trader. Lets go over it again. Say the intraday margin required for 1 contract is 1K and the funded account is 150K...

Scaling plan. The trader scales up and he has the buying power of 20 contracts. Initially he started with 3 contracts and that initial startup capital in the funded account is all explained in the previous post. But once you are up at 20 contracts buying power, your buying power does not decrease. Correct. But this is where everybody is tricked but here is how it works.

When funded your account balance is 0. TST needs you to be positive by the end of 10th day of trading in live. Now lets say you have made 20K by 10th day. Your buying power is now 20 contracts. You choose to withdraw 15K. Your account balance is now 5K but your buying power is still 20. This is because TST has added the required margin to the Funded Account to increase your buying power. But when you are trading, you still cant let your account have a daily drawdown of 3K.
Now lets say your buying power is 20 contracts and your account balance is 5K after all the withdrawal. Now, you lose 2999 ( assuming you did not want to reach the loss limit) the next day of withdrawal. You are left with 2001. Again, the next day after, you can still lose 2999 but by the end of day, you need to be above 0. That means you need to bring the loss down to 2K to be positive but unfortunately this isn't possible and when you close the account at 2999 minus, your total balance is -1K and now you are stripped off your Funded Account.

So, Scaling Plan is just making traders avoid reckless and luck trading. Once scaled up, TST is trusting enough to put more capital to give you more buying power. Now the above scenario is just 1, The worst scenario for TST can be this. Say the withdrawal of 20K was 19999 and then the next day, you lost 3K. Your buying power is still 20 contracts but the next day you lost 3K and your account is -3K and you are stripped off your account.

So, this is the general flow chart.

Trader is funded - Scaling Plan - Maintains positive balance after 10th day - Needs to maintain positive balance thereon - Makes more and more profit - Proves his worth - Gets more buying power which is not related to his profit.

So a trader can ask for 50 contracts buying power and if he's made 50K in the account, he can withdraw it all or lose it all. But after all that profit, max TST will lose is 3K when the account comes down to 0 and then you close below 0 the next day at maximum loss.

Hope this makes it clear.

Regards,
Pavan

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 tturner86 
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 tturner86 
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 cencored 
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Will there be a recording available?

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 tturner86 
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Will there be a recording available?

Yes, please allow @Big Mike some time to upload it to Youtube and post here once it is done.

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 ValueFocused 
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Thank you Pavanb and Bob.
This does make sense of course.
I did contact them directly and was told that the reason I cannot hold overnight trades is because they need all accounts to be flat in order to run their trade reports. If accounts weren't all flat, there would be inaccuracies in the reports as obviously there is floating PnL involved.

They did not mention any other reason. To be honest the increased overnight margin shouldn't really be an issue, as it shouldn't in ones personal account.
Or put differently: If you can't afford the overnight margin, you're trading too many contracts for your account size.

Another reason is that many firms simply are not willing to expose themselves to overnight or weekend risk. As a firm, they are flat at the end of the day. This is pretty common for prop firms, especially in Chicago. It comes down to how a firm chooses to do its risk management. It sounds like Topstep likes to generate their reports, review at end of day and go from there. That's their choice.

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 NGtrader 
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Thank you Pavanb and Bob.
This does make sense of course.
I did contact them directly and was told that the reason I cannot hold overnight trades is because they need all accounts to be flat in order to run their trade reports. If accounts weren't all flat, there would be inaccuracies in the reports as obviously there is floating PnL involved.

They did not mention any other reason. To be honest the increased overnight margin shouldn't really be an issue, as it shouldn't in ones personal account.
Or put differently: If you can't afford the overnight margin, you're trading too many contracts for your account size.

You cannot hold trades overnight but it does not mean you cannot initiate a trade in London session. I have friends who are funded with Topstep and they regularly trade London session, they just make sure they close their positions by 3 pm CST.

I confirmed this with one of their reps too.

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 cencored 
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You cannot hold trades overnight but it does not mean you cannot initiate a trade in London session. I have friends who are funded with Topstep and they regularly trade London session, they just make sure they close their positions by 3 pm CST.

I confirmed this with one of their reps too.

Yes I am certainly aware that you can trade in London session, that's obvious. I regularly trade in the Asian session too, but that's beside the point.

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 Big Mike 
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Here is the webinar recording:



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You cannot hold trades overnight but it does not mean you cannot initiate a trade in London session. I have friends who are funded with Topstep and they regularly trade London session, they just make sure they close their positions by 3 pm CST.

I confirmed this with one of their reps too.

Yes. There is a difference between holding a trade into the close and reopening a position after the open. But I know we can trade during anytime of the day. As long as you close positions before the close of the market, there is no restrictions and when you dont hold beyond the close, it is still an Intraday trade and you still get Intraday margin advantage by the broker. I trade Asian, London and US markets courtesy of my current co-ordinates, India.

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 Forexoil 
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TopStep Trader Update and Survey - Trading Schools.Org

reading this TST looks like it is in the business of collecting money from hopeful 'traders' who either live in a developing country , or whose school allowance doesnt pay enough to open a real account?
I can't see any reason to join them unless someone was utterly broke? seems a fishy business.

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 cencored 
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TopStep Trader Update and Survey - Trading Schools.Org

reading this TST looks like it is in the business of collecting money from hopeful 'traders' who either live in a developing country , or whose school allowance doesnt pay enough to open a real account?
I can't see any reason to join them unless someone was utterly broke? seems a fishy business.

Not sure what to say to that other than, there are quite a handful of reasons why you may take advantage of their services.
I'm sure you can work it out yourself though.

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 bobwest 
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TopStep Trader Update and Survey - Trading Schools.Org

reading this TST looks like it is in the business of collecting money from hopeful 'traders' who either live in a developing country , or whose school allowance doesnt pay enough to open a real account?
I can't see any reason to join them unless someone was utterly broke? seems a fishy business.

Everyone has an opinion, and is usually quite fond of it.

It is true that, as a rule, it's a good idea to be skeptical of anyone in the trading industry who offers anything for money. However, a great many people on this forum have tried the Combine, and the general opinion of those who have, as they have reported it, is that it provides a worthwhile level of discipline, not unlike what would be necessary in real trading. (I do agree with this view.) A number of people have gone on to a funded account with them. Of course, some haven't liked it.

It is certainly true that most who try the Combine do not succeed at it, whether it has a good effect on their discipline or not. Most people who try their hand at trading futures do not succeed at it, either.

A person will need to decide whether they think that any value they may get from the experience is worth it or not.

Anyone who feels it is not or would be not, should just go on and do something else.

Bob.

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 FABRICATORX 
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Everyone has an opinion, and is usually quite fond of it.

LOL! Word.

-Jimmy
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 matthew28 
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Thanks Conor for the recent webinar. it was nice to hear so many questions answered clearly and succinctly.
That 97% stat for the survival rate of your funded traders (52:45 mins), to still be trading is huge. Very impressive.

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 Forexoil 
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Thanks Conor for the recent webinar. it was nice to hear so many questions answered clearly and succinctly.
That 97% stat for the survival rate of your funded traders (52:45 mins), to still be trading is huge. Very impressive.

Ok I now admit I was wrong to comment about TST.
the fact that 97% of their funded traders are still with them - and they have be in the green to stay I think right?- is amazing. They have over 700 hundred funded traders too I read somewhere!!

This is the real deal! I am now thinking to sign myself.

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 matthew28 
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@Forexoil
"Still actively engaged in the markets, whether with us or their own accounts." So not necessarily still with them, to quote him exactly.
I read the TradingSchools reviews a while back and have slightly gone off him as it all quite often seems a bit hysterical. His first TST review said they were fantastic and his review of a competitor was a hachet job and that they were awful. And now he seems to have completely reversed his position and said that he was wrong and now he has decided that TST are awful and the competitor is wonderful but doesn't provide any objective analysis or data to back up this sudden Damascene conversion.
The list of complaints about TST includes I would say old complaints regarding people not understanding things. The TST site is a lot more precise about exactly what the requirements and procedures are, such as regarding professional CME fees and Live Trader Prep for instance, compared to how it used to be. There are complaints earlier in this thread for instance about ambiguity in some of the wording on various things but they are usually followed by somebody from TST either clarifying it or saying it will be changed on their site to make it clearer.
The only legitimate issue I think is the fact that your drawdown limit is removed after ten days and you only have any profit made in that time as a buffer. My ideal scenario would be to get funded then start live with the smallest size possible and build up over a few days/weeks as one dips their toes in 'trading somebody else's money'. But the ten day limit really promotes the need to start full bore from day one.

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 Forexoil 
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thanks Matthew
I have been studying their site today. If I read it correctly, for a couple of hundred dollars one trades a sim account, proves they can trade meeting some not unreasonable targets, and then TST funds them and risks losing $3000, while the trader loses nothing except his time and the small simtrading fee they paid in the beginning.

And if the trader is good/lucky they can either stay on with TST brokers or withdraw the money they made in the 10 days since they began (minus 20%). Is that right?
it seems not so bad.

Main downer being the professional fees one is stuck with for eternity- but nothing TST can do about that.

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 lemons 
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Forexoil View Post
thanks Matthew
I have been studying their site today. If I read it correctly, for a couple of hundred dollars one trades a sim account, proves they can trade meeting some not unreasonable targets, and then TST funds them and risks losing $3000, while the trader loses nothing except his time and the small simtrading fee they paid in the beginning.

And if the trader is good/lucky they can either stay on with TST brokers or withdraw the money they made in the 10 days since they began (minus 20%). Is that right?
it seems not so bad.

Main downer being the professional fees one is stuck with for eternity- but nothing TST can do about that.

If you are going to do Combine I recommend to trade it with LIVE trader rules.
Passing Continues Combine is not that hard but trading with 2 set of additional rules is harder.

Rules to follow :
- combine rules

+ 2 addition rules.

- weekly loss limit = daily loss limit
- Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days.

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 matthew28 
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Forexoil View Post
I have been studying their site today. If I read it correctly, for a couple of hundred dollars one trades a sim account, proves they can trade meeting some not unreasonable targets, and then TST funds them and risks losing $3000, while the trader loses nothing except his time and the small simtrading fee they paid in the beginning.

If you pass the Combine you then need to repeat the effort on the LiveTraderPrep. This doesn't have a Combine fee but just has a couple of extra rules, such as not holding a trade through any relevant important product news, following the Live Trader Scaling Plan and the ones that Lemons mentions. You also can only trade on ten days to complete it. So like the first ten days of going live. The profit target is reduced though. LTP used to not be mandatory but TST say they found that the traders who completed it did better. These steps are covered in the first twenty minutes of the recent webinar


Forexoil View Post
And if the trader is good/lucky they can either stay on with TST brokers or withdraw the money they made in the 10 days since they began (minus 20%). Is that right?

You keep 100% of thefirst $5,000 you make in profits. After that it is down to 80%


Forexoil View Post
Main downer being the professional fees one is stuck with for eternity- but nothing TST can do about that.

Right. Until TST explained it more clearly some people used to think this was an extra TST charge. It is a CME charge for professional traders because they consider a trader to be a professional if they are trading somebody else's money.

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 cencored 
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Regarding the charge. You always pay a charge for the feed, even if you trade yourself. So considering that it's your only cost (even the platform is 'paid' by them) coupled with pretty tight comms for a RT from what I can see, this is pretty good.

Both reviews on tradingschools.org are absolute rubbish. The guy is clearly not a trader himself and changes his opinions like the wind. The so called complaint points he says he received are all a joke, the guy is obviously not to be taken seriously.

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 Forexoil 
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cencored View Post
Regarding the charge. You always pay a charge for the feed, even if you trade yourself. So considering that it's your only cost (even the platform is 'paid' by them) coupled with pretty tight comms for a RT from what I can see, this is pretty ly.

Ive been paying fees to the exchanges for years but I always choose non professional option which for most exchanges ate lower than professional fees.

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 Forexoil 
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The issue for me after reading the tradingschools review was it seemed that TST wasmaking their money from the combines, not so much from the20% share of profits.

But learnig that 97% of their traders are still with them is anazing. They must raking it in from the 700 estimated profitable traders in their group.
It would be great if mr Patak confirmed that here.

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 matthew28 
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Forexoil View Post
The issue for me after reading the tradingschools review was it seemed that TST wasmaking their money from the combines, not so much from the20% share of profits.

I am starting to sound a little too much like a TST cheerleader, but just on the above quote, I can't say I ever saw that as a problem myself. It seems to me that TST has chosen a sustainable business model where people taking their 'test' pay a fee that helps to cover the company's business fees and staff costs. This has helped them to reduce their commission fees live traders are charged dramatically from when they first started and also reduce their profit percentage cut and introduce keeping the 100% of the first $5000 initiative. In short their business model allows them to reward successful traders which is what everybody trying to pass the Combine wants to achieve.
Or you have the opposite approach from another online prop shop that has posted on futures.io, where the test is free (free to the client, the company absorbs all the costs ITSELF), and then only has a 50/50 profit split for those that get funded. To my mind that business model is set up for the benefit of the vast majority that will never contribute anything to the business, and penalises the few that are successful and creates a disincentive for them to stay with that company for any length of time.

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 cencored 
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Forexoil View Post
But learnig that 97% of their traders are still with them is anazing. They must raking it in from the 700 estimated profitable traders in their group.
It would be great if mr Patak confirmed that here.

They didn't say 97% are still with them. They said 97% are still trading, whether with them or not.
That wouldn't surprise me tbh. If you can make it to get funded with them you can obviously trade.

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 Forexoil 
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cencored View Post
They didn't say 97% are still with them. They said 97% are still trading, whether with them or not.
That wouldn't surprise me tbh. If you can make it to get funded with them you can obviously trade.

I see. i wonder how they gather those statistics in that case?

I would like to ask Mr Patak to supply some data on the number of successful traders: how many have made $100,00. etc.: the same way the company gives out data about how many passed their entrance test.

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 matthew28 
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Congatulations. Best wishes for the final.


CEO Michael Patak - Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Yearฎ 2016 Finalist

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pavanb15589
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Topsteptrader has been offering combines for $1 for all the new users. And surely futures market isn't a place for hopeful traders first of all. In addition, combine clearly shows the parameters and if a trader wasn't able to make it in his first attempt, it is important to understand that he should take months before he makes another attempt. $1 combine is enough to gauge where you stand as a trader. I have a friend who's paid for 3 combines and is now funded, who keeps making 2K a day regularly and goes up to 10 12K once or twice in a month. I myself have paid for 4 - 6 combines and 3 or 4 resets in total and I am not complaining about it because being a bad trader is my problem. Topsteptrader is as transparent as it could be. I am yet to be funded but even though I have spent over 1000 dollars on everything in Topstep ( and I am from India, a developing country), my brain seems to be developed enough to tell what's a shady business and what's not...



Forexoil View Post
TopStep Trader Update and Survey - Trading Schools.Org

reading this TST looks like it is in the business of collecting money from hopeful 'traders' who either live in a developing country , or whose school allowance doesnt pay enough to open a real account?
I can't see any reason to join them unless someone was utterly broke? seems a fishy business.


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 Forexoil 
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Could I repeat my question: (thread is" ask me anything ")
Could mr patak give data on how many of their funded traders have reached $100,000 payout with them.
Or even $50,000.

Anyway great to hear that it is only $1 now to for combines.

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 Tymbeline 
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Forexoil View Post
Could I repeat my question: (thread is" ask me anything ")
Could mr patak give data on how many of their funded traders have reached $100,000 payout with them.


Please excuse my commenting that it isn't a question I'd want to answer, in a public forum, in Michael Patak's position.

I'd expect the answer to be pretty low, when you look at who their market chiefly comprises? Don't you think perhaps $10,000 would be a fairer question? People who have earned anything approaching $100,000 might perhaps feel that they're past the stage of wanting to continue to give up 20% of their takings to TST (even bearing in mind the other undoubted benefits of trading one of their funded accounts)?

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 Forexoil 
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Tymbeline View Post
Please excuse my commenting that it isn't a question I'd want to answer, in a public forum, in Michael Patak's position.

I'd expect the answer to be pretty low, when you look at who their market chiefly comprises? Don't you think perhaps $10,000 would be a fairer question? People who have earned anything approaching $100,000 might perhaps feel that they're past the stage of wanting to continue to give up 20% of their takings to TST (even bearing in mind the other undoubted benefits of trading one of their funded accounts)?

sure let's see how many have made $10,000.

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