Why the fact that there is a Live Prep (basicly a 2nd Combine) for pretty much everyone isn't disclosed on the website? Not to mention, knowing its rules before hand would help a candidate to decide if he can actually make it or not, so he wouldn't waste time/money on the whole process.
Also, what's the point in making restrictions what are not there for the Live trading? For example if you allow someone to have a larger losing day than a winning day with real money, I see no point setting such a standard in the live prep.
And anyway, why is it a problem if a losing day slightly bigger than a winning day? As long as it is not 50-100% bigger, I see no problem with it, and certain systems work just fine with that kind of stats....
The following user says Thank You to Pedro40 for this post:
Pedro- Live Trader preparation is preparation for live trading. It is the same rules and requirements that a live trader must follow. Thus prepping you for live trading with our equity partners. The scout team selects traders to enter this on a case by case basis. In most cases we will cut the profit target in half or have no profit target whatsoever for the recruit (like live trading). We do clearly state this on the second sentence of the scouting critieria form (TopstepTrader - Where Talent Meets Opportunity) as well as the information box on the Combine page and emails once in the program.
The largest winning day greater than your largest losing day is a great rule to have a part of your trading plan or any traders plan. It instills growth and working toward winners that are bigger than losers (daily or per trade) which with time rolls into consistently having winners great than your losers. This is something that is enforced at the LTP and funded level.
Lastly, a recruit that is asked to trade a bit more (Live trading preparation) is not wasting money as it doesn't cost them any money as they have their deposit returned (any trader who scratches an account or better and meets the performance metrics receives an offer for a rollover or a refund, (as of today we have changed badges to Blue C's for anyone who has accomplished doing this at least 1 or more times)). To your next point about wasting time, the Combine is an interview tool for our equity partners but also a developmental tool for traders.
I hope that helps answer your question.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
OK, I was wrong on that one. Nice to know. But are the criterias for the Live prep listed somewhere or are they different for each trader? If they are different, a candidate simple can not know in advance what he has to work on, or if it is worthy for him to try at all.
I agree up to a point. As long as the difference is small (let's say less than 20%), this is rather irrelevant, assuming the trader doesn't have too many losing days. Now sure, if the losing days are 100% bigger than the winning days, we have a problem.
I understand that, but I was thinking here more of the time invested. Let's say a consistently profitable trader passes the 20 days Combine in 2 months, just to find out that his largest losing days that are 5% bigger than his winning days prevent him from getting funded. That is a lots of effort wasted for a person who doesn't need practice since he is consistently profitable...
By the way what is the timeframe in Live trading (real money) for the comparison between largest loser vs. winning day? Is it weekly?
---------------------------------------------
Unrelated to the previous discussion, but have you guys tried to make just 3 basic rules, like: Make this much during this time frame while not losing more than this? I wonder how traders passing that minimalist Combine would compare in live trading to the current ones???
The following user says Thank You to Pedro40 for this post:
Pedro- The live trader preparation criteria are the same criteria as the Live trader (except that live traders do not have a profit target at all). We could probably be a bit more clear on the site with the criteria but this has never been an issue. (I will look into it with our group).
For your question on Live Trader I have copied what is on the TST Trading plan and what LTP must adhere to:
Adhere to the following requirements: (to be discussed on scout call)
I will not hit my loss limit (per day or per calendar week).
I will not hold a position into the electronic close.
At the start of my day I will trade only _____ lot(s) and will only add to my position or increase my size if my total Net P&L is greater than $1,000.
I will stop trading for the day if my total Net P&L is greater than $1,000 and my total Net P&L has pulled back _______% off my high watermark (realized total Net P&L high of the day). Pullback should not be greater than 50%.
If my total Net P&L is negative for the day, I will stop trading if I experience ___ losing trades in a row.
My largest winning day will be greater than my largest losing day (realized end of day Net P&L). (Reviewed every 10 trading days)
I will not have losses greater than 50% of my max drawdown with a winning day percentage less than 40. (realized end of day Net P&L)
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
It was mentioned in another thread that when you reach both the live trader prep and junior trader stages, you are forced to trade between 7am - 3:10pm CST. Yet in the combine and senior trader stages you can trade anytime.
For currencies, there are no time of day restrictions (other than being flat at 3:10pm)
In my case, I plan on trading the 6B (British Pound) in the combine as soon as NinjaTrader is available. I trade the UK-London session, plus the first 2 hours of the US session. I generally only get 1 or 2 trades per day, and 90% of the time those trades occur during the London session. My setups just do not appear as often after the UK session (maybe 1 or 2 a week).
So am I understanding correctly that if I were to pass the combine (trading the UK session), I would then not be allowed to trade the UK session during live trader prep and junior trader stages. I would be forced to trade the US session, thus requiring me to change my trading style to force trades which dont usually happen after the UK session. Then after passing the junior trader stage (unlikely, due to when my setups occur), then at the senior trader stage I can go back to trading the UK session?
Please could you let me know if I understand the above correctly and where this is mentioned on your website. I haven't seen it anywhere, or heard it mentioned on any of the TST webinars on BigMikes or in your webinars on youtube.
Many thanks.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 3 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Darkpooltrading- We have traders that trade outside of the 7am - 3:10pm time. When a recruit is at either the LTP level or Junior trader level. They will speak with the Director of Scouting John Hoagland. On this call John will discuss all the details and requirements that must be followed. The trader will then have the opportunity to adjust or add or omit certain requirements and in this case the time.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
The way it was mentioned in another thread is that when at the LTP and junior trader stages you HAVE TO trade within 7am-3:10pm. No exceptions. Im glad to hear that is not the case and is up for discussion. That certainly would add unnecessary pressure on traders not living in the US (and trading 24 hour markets like currencies), who have proved themselves by passing the combine.
Thanks. Looking forward to jumping in when Ninja is available.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following user says Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Can you clarify the profit split a bit more please ? I couldnt find an answer to what happens to the cushion that you build ? Does it stay as a cushion of 30k forever ? What happens when the trader quits your firm for whatever reasons --is he paid 60%, 70% or 80% of the 30k cushion that he built ?
The following 2 users say Thank You to garyboy275 for this post:
garyboy- Once you establish a cushion in your account as stated on the funded trader page (either $5,000 or $10,000), you may then request a withdraw. When a withdraw request is made the profit split will then be taken out.
If a trader decided to close their trading account they will receive their portion of their profit split bringing the account down to zero.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
So the cushion is 5k/10k and the 15k/30k is what you accumulate in total profits(yet is distributed to you every month-does that count towards it) for the 80-20% split ? Am I understanding this right ?
Also can you go into numbers as %(you maynot want to give actual #'s) of people who get funded on passing the combine and who go onto become senior traders ? Thanks
The following 2 users say Thank You to garyboy275 for this post:
When you accumulate profits of $15k or $30k you will be bumped up from 60/40 to 70/30 to 80/20 profit split (the traders way).
Lastly, TST does not release numbers for funded trader's performance. This is confidential between their equity partner and the funded trader. If you would like to talk to any of our past, current, or upcoming funded traders they are in our chat room daily. The only numbers we do give out are how many funded traders are active with them. This is currently at 28.
One last point, TST offers an opportunity to trade on a funded account for those that show they are disciplined and meet an objective. What the trader does once funded is completely on them. I will say that those that continue doing what got them to the funed account (staying disciplined and following risk parameters) are doing very well.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 5 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
treydog- Sierracharts is available already. Our next platform to be added will be Ninjatrader. Once that is good to go, we will look to add additional platforms.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 5 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Is there any estimated date that NinjaTrader will be available for the combine?
“Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person.”--Albert Einstein
The following user says Thank You to Vincent Vega for this post:
Hi, missed the memo on Sierracharts been available for the Combine. I was trying to find this information on your website but no luck. When you mean using Sierrcharts, do you mean using Sierracharts DOM or Trading from the charts? Please direct me to the location where I can find Sierracharts as an option for the Combine on your website.
Thank you
The following user says Thank You to vercetti for this post:
Hi Michael,
If a trader gets funded with a $50k account and he/she makes good progress over a period of time, i.e. grows the account, will you consider adding to the funded account? For example bumping it up to a $150k account? Or must the trader complete a new $150k combine to get access to more funding?
The following 2 users say Thank You to PK007 for this post:
I use Sierra Charts on TST. You can trade from the chart or the DOM. Choice is yours. The only thing you need to do is to let TST know you're going to use Seirra Charts by emailing them or visiting the support room in the chat after you sign up.
Robert
nosce te ipsum
You make your own opportunities in life.
The following user says Thank You to Silver Dragon for this post:
Vincent Vega- The update I have received from our Ninja committee as of last week was a conservative date of mid July. TST will make an announcement once this platform is available.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
PK007- When a trader starts building their account all things become negotiable. You will NOT have to complete a larger Combine to trade bigger. Look at yourself as a professional athlete. When you start putting up the numbers and performing, the organization will do what it can to help that athlete to continue to perform at the top of their game. We do the same with traders.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 5 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Vercetti- Sierra is available and you can trade from both as long as you are connected to the CTS backend. Our tech team will be adding Sierra information on our site very shortly.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Josh- You are correct. You should not have to contact our support as this should be connected at our end already. You would need your own Sierra subscription.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
I understand that there are a number of issues with regards to trading EUREX products in the combine and within any LTP. TST provides support etc and you have people available during market hours.
However, working US market hours is certainly not for everyone. It plays havoc with family life and sleep patterns if you are living in Europe or Asia.
Question 1:
Is TST setup to allow trading of EUREX products within the normal practice accounts ? I know that you don't have Squawk etc available but there still must be a community of European traders to network with during this time ? I understand the other restrictions of practice accounts (no combine review ..etc), however .. a "Fake Combine" is very useful.
Question 2:
Do you see any demand for expanding the services for full European or Asian coverage ?
best regards
Podski
The following user says Thank You to podski for this post:
(mods feel free to move this to T4 thread if you feel it belongs there)
Hi MP
TST requires traders to use stops and prefers Auto OCO orders. How come T4 wont let you add to a position when your max position allowed is 5 and you have 2 short already and want to add 2 more ? Here is a screen shot. How ever you can cancel the Auto OCO orders and enter the trade as desired. So in a way you are promoting using Auto OCO but Auto OCO orders dont work to the traders benefit. I have used OEC extensively and it calculates the net position based on type of order. If its an OCO order one side is going to get filled whether its target or stop. So, essentially you can only trade 2 lot if you are using Auto OCO. This is also a warning to future TST combine takers.
You can put on 3,4,5 lot when you take the trade but if you want to add for whatever reason you have to cancel your stops to get your additional trade in.
However at the urging of another member I tried same thing with the practise account where it works as desired
Took 2 lots then added 11 for a total of 13 with Auto OCO orders so a total of 26 Auto OCO sitting on DOM and still allows you to add the remaining 2 of max 15 for deomo account.
The following 2 users say Thank You to garyboy275 for this post:
Thanks for participating in this informative thread.
Two questions, the first is both to you and everyone:
- I'm not well-versed in prop trading compensation, but paying traders a 60-80% share of profits seems unrealistic. Given that hedge funds are criticized for taking a 2% mgmt fee and 20% share of profits, the share paid by TST seems like an unsustainable arrangement for the investor and too good to be true for the trader. Am I missing something here?
- If someone can trade for only the first 90 minutes or two hours of the regular trading session (due to having a day job), but meets the combine requirements, would that person be accepted as a funded trader?
Thanks again -
TideRip
The following user says Thank You to TideRip for this post:
Im sure Michael will respond shortly. But in the mean time just keep in mind that a prop firm and a hedge fund are two vastly different businesses. TST does not have investors. They have traders who trade TST's capital once they have passed the combine. Their revenue model does not rely on (nor involve) investors. There is also no concept of a management fee in the case of a prop firm like TST.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following user says Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Your first sentence is true, but TST does have a backer, who basicly is an investor. So beside the TST/trader split there also has to be some kind of profit share between the backer and TST, making their already 20-40% share even smaller... Of course they might have a completely different business set up...
The following user says Thank You to Pedro40 for this post:
I think while it's not the best idea to be drilling their business model here rather than trading, it is fair not point out, that hedge fund or other mutual investment vehicles keep investors funds constantly at risk until they are withdrawn. What happens at TST is that they risk a relatively small amount of max draw down, and their risk is zero once the cushion is built- by then trader is risking the money he made. No traders that take money under the management for active trading in futures or forex will trade for 20%. The standard figure is about 50%. And you cannot withdraw at your discretion.
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xelaar for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,360 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,045 given,
96,616
received
Just a quick note:
TopstepTrader has been added to the Elite Partner Offers page. TST is giving a 20% discount on combine's for futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite Members (new recruits only, limit 1).
Note: Big Mike Trading does NOT receive compensation for these referrals, we simply worked out these special deals to help our Elite Members who have chosen to support the site. Even though we believe these are great products and services, you should always do your own research before doing business with a company.
Is there any news about NinjaTrader compatibility with the combine?
The last estimation was mid july.
“Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person.”--Albert Einstein
The following 2 users say Thank You to Vincent Vega for this post:
Ninja users might consider giving up on this. First mention of this was in January I think. In post 5 of this thread, end of March is given as a date, and even that was far behind schedule. At this point it's been delayed about 6 months.
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
Yes we have started the soft launch of Ninja with the Combine. The committee we have in place to manage this is requesting a slow soft launch as you can tell by the email. This will be opened up further and further in the coming weeks to those interested. This is invite only at this point. If you receive an invite (similar to Daytrader's) you will have the opportunity to sign up to the Combine using NinjaTrader.
Just a heads up, TST has a special committee handling NT traders but we'll relay anything that we get updated on or if you have questions I can always help to answer those here.
Thanks to everyone for patiently waiting .... more to come.
mf
If you have any questions about TopstepTrader please send me a Private Message or contact us at info@topsteptrader.com or 312.252.9490.
The following 4 users say Thank You to mfootlick for this post:
I am also glad to see Ninja is getting close. I have an additional question regarding Ninja licensing too. I'm curious if I have Ninja installed, will I change my current license for the combine or install a second instance of Ninja? I know I can not run two instances of the same Ninja, but I have not tried to install to two different directories and run two separate copies.
Trade Wise, Trade Well
John
The following user says Thank You to MarketPilot for this post:
The duration of this roll out will no doubt be dependent on whether or not any bugs are found. But if the soft launch goes well without a need to send this back to development/testing,...when do you expect the platform to be available to the general public?
Thanks.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following user says Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
TideRip- To answer your first question you are not investing money you are a trader trading proprietary capital. The typical profit split can start as low as 40% for some prop firms. Think about it this way. If you made $600 today trading and $400 tomorrow your trading account for that proprietary trading firm would have a balance of $1,000. If you wanted to withdraw and pay yourself you could request at $1,000 withdraw (bringing your trading account balance down to zero). With the profit split you would have with the equity partner (TST equity partner) you would receive $600 and your equity partner would receive $400 for being the backer of the account.
To answer your second question, TopstepTrader has placed traders that do have full-time time jobs. Many traders we place trade at different times. Some leave orders working (with stops and targets (aka. OCO) of course) and go to work. It is all basically how you decide to trade (The equity partner does have rules though as it is their money).
Let me know if that helped or if you need further clarification.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Darkpooltrading- I do want to clarify that they are not trading for TST once you pass the Combine. You would be trading on our equity partner's account. TST is strictly a scouting agency that educates (TSTU), develops, and discovers traders in a realtime SIM (aka. Paper) environment.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Silver Dragon- At this point it is permanent and only while you are in the Combine. Once you are funded you will need a valid live license key.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Darkpool- The goal is by the first week of August, pending the NT committee we have on the ball does not find any issues.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Still sounds like the 20 day combines exist. They just have the same profit target. So you can decide either 10 or 20 days to reach the same profit target.
Trade Wise, Trade Well
John
The following user says Thank You to MarketPilot for this post:
It's sorta betting whether you can make it in 10 days, or whether you make it and don't blow in 20. I can see the psychology aspect working here, so it's not only about trading per se.
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xelaar for this post:
... the 20-day combines as we knew them recently are actually history!
Sorry for not being clear - I mean we are back to strict time-bound combines (which they had started at the beginning) instead of the "minimum time" ones.
In 10-day combines too the number of days to achieve target cannot be between 10 and 20 they cap them at 10.
Thus you need to take an "observer" stance for all the other days which is good discipline but you need to up the game a bit.
The following 2 users say Thank You to iqgod for this post:
It would be interesting to know how many people reach the target early only to have some losing days cause them to fall under and not reach the objective.
I agree with the Psychology aspect as most people would be quick to think the longer time frame is better to reach the same goal.
Trade Wise, Trade Well
John
The following user says Thank You to MarketPilot for this post:
The "old style" combine allowed you some extra trading days if you were close to reaching the profit target. Now, you only get extra days if you decide not to take any trades on some of the days.
This will help me if I I'm unable to trade some of the days. But my trading method does not have a "wait and decide if you should trade today" component. I'll have a hard time deciding if a day is a day to skip before making at least one trade.
Trade Wise, Trade Well
John
The following 2 users say Thank You to MarketPilot for this post:
I have to say I do not agree with this change and I do not think it promotes good trading habits.
The email states that this is aimed at promoting patience, but in fact what this will result in is people skipping valid setups because they're scared of using up one of their trading days. What TST is looking for is traders who have a defined edge which takes into account risk, loss limits, market structure, targets etc. When the trader see's their edge present itself they execute. Period.
The 'minimum' structure they have had in place lends itself to traders executing their edge when they see it, and not picking and choosing which valid setups to take. When you see a valid setup as per your edge, you take it. This new 'limit' structure will result in traders skipping perfectly good trades because they dont want to use up a day. They will begin looking for sure things. As we know, good traders trade probabilities, they dont trade sure things. By skipping valid setups because you're scared of using up a day, you are not trading probabilities, you are waiting for a sure thing which doesn't exist in the market.
Further to that, TST will now have much less information about prospective traders after only 10 or 20 trading days. Personally, I would want to see how a person trades consistently over a 2 month period. Not how they trade on 10 or 20 cherry picked days.
Edit: Patience in trading is about waiting for valid setups. Patience is not about skipping days or valid trades looking for a sure thing.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 7 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
It can also add the psychological pressures that "I took a trade today" so not I must be profitable today. Need to keep this kind of thinking out of trading.
Trade Wise, Trade Well
John
The following 2 users say Thank You to MarketPilot for this post:
Exactly right. Initially traders will be far too wary of placing a trade for fear of using a day. Then once he has placed that first trade he will be more inclined to force trades because rather than waste one of his precious 10 or 20 days, he's going to MAKE the market pay him. We all know what that results in.
They obviously want to promote patience in waiting for valid trades, which is great. However all this will do is result in people skipping valid trades and then over trading once they've placed a trade for the day.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 5 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Xelaar- You are a bit correct. It is not completely about trading at this point but more understanding what you are capable of and making the decision that fits that.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following user says Thank You to Topstep for this post:
iqgod- You are correct the minimum is gone and replaced with the decision to either trade 10 or 20 days to meet the same rules and target.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Darkpool- We are looking for traders to "Just Trade" as the old line on the trading floor goes (the CBOT handed tshirts out about 6 years ago that played off the "Just do it" Nike line). When you trade you learn more about yourself and your strengths and weaknesses. This gives you incredible feedback that you then can doing something about if you so choose.
Do not look at the amount of days left or be scared to enter because this may waste a day. The goal of the Combine is to develop and follow rules, not to only hit the profit target. If you follow all the rules and make $1 you are able to roll your Combine over to a new Combine at no cost. If you follow the rules and meet the profit target you will be moving on to a funded account or in some situations a Live Trader Preparation period. If you do not follow the rules at any of the levels you will not advance and starting a Combine over will require a new deposit.
The goal of the Combine is to develop talent and retain talent that follows the rules. Meeting the profit target will be a side effect of following the rules. 97% of those we survey said the Combine has helped them to develop as a trader. This is a vital tool you can use to get to where you want to be WITHOUT putting another $5k into the market and weathering that storm.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Darkpool- A trader need to practice discipline and follow his plan. If he/she are doing this and their results are not up to par. They should be tweaking their plan. The key is to stay disciplined and follow YOUR plan. This gives you feedback to know if you have a sound trading plan or if it needs work. Forcing trades or over trading once you have made a trade does not sound like a disciplined trader. TST does not force you to trade and we even say you do not have to make money to stay in the Combine at no cost BUT you do need to follow the rules and our rules are risk management rules that instill discipline over time. Some traders take much longer than others to get to a point where the foundation of their trading is not indicators, set-ups, or whatever. It is a discipline. Discipline is the core of their trading. Having this as a foundation is the start of developing yourself into an amazing sound even keeled trader.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
9baller- I have passed your comments along to the NT committee. They will look into it. This is a soft launch. If there are issues they will be addressed. If you have any issues please also reply to your invite email and someone will respond swiftly.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following user says Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Thanks for the reply Michael and thank you for engaging with us,
The combine is definitely a positive thing for traders to do. I have no doubt 97% of traders surveyed say it was a positive thing for their trading.
However I personally don't agree that this latest rule change will have the desired effect.
I really think that there will be more traders skipping valid setups so they don't use one of their days. Then,...once they have placed a trade after waiting any number of days with no trading, they will then over trade so as not to waste the day. I agree completely that this is not the behavior of a disciplined trader. However this is likely to be the behavior of a trader in this environment with an extremely limited time to trade where the importance of each day is overly emphasized. Surely the idea should be to downplay the importance of any day or trade. That is not what is being done here.
With the current rules, the environment is more conducive to taking all valid trades ("Just trading") with no added pressure on the importance of any particular day. It is also more conducive to stopping trading when you're clearly not seeing the market right.
Anyway, TST no doubt records copious amounts of stats on it's traders. So time will tell.
Thanks again for engaging with us here.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 5 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
how do think those who waited months for NT to be ready feel ....I was invited to the phase 1 NT rollout....and went with a 10 day 150k combine effective today....and the night before my combine starts after I get my login credentials you send this new e-mail changing the structure effective the following week....BLINDSIDE!
10 day combine twice as hard now....a lot easier to average 600 day than it is 1200....
also agree with the cherry picking comments from dark pool above...but also feel that 10 day combine not only more $ difficult...but more pressure to force trades...why take the 10 day now?
bad timing on rule changes....and NT still not ready....
Bingo. I have no horse in this race at all, and I like TST a lot, but I think the move to minimum format was a very good one, and am puzzled as to why it was changed. My first guess would be business reasons, though I hope that's not it, because I just don't see the benefit to traders.
Said another way, which format more closely mimics the reality of a trading environment? One in which you are penalized for taking one trade and scratching it (by reducing the number of days in which you can now trade over the next month), or one in which no one trade or day is ever given more importance over another?
The following 4 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
9baller- If you would like to change or are concerned you can contact support and see what options are available.
To address concerns on making things harder I would have to disagree and say that we have made things easier. The new format promotes and pushes the trader that is looking to enter the Combine to pull the trigger on the Combine with more time (the first test of seeing if a trader has patience). There should not be a rush to develop your trading or even showcase your trading. The profit targets we have for the Combine are the same whether you choose 10 or 20 days.
There has been other points that say that the new format forces a trader make a lot more in the 10 day. I want to stress that profits should come naturally in the Combine. If you find you are forcing profits you need to size down both in your position and in the Combine you are looking to enter. The 30k Combine has a profit target of $1,500. You can choose either 10 days or 20 days to most importantly MEET THE RULES and meet the profit target (if naturally possible). For this example you would have to produce a trading average of $150 if you enter the 10 day and a trading average of $75 if you entered the 20 day.
So we can see above that the 20 day is drastically easier and if I can't naturally meet that level BUT follow my rules this particular Combine will cost me nothing. You will then have the opportunity to restart the Combine and look to further develop (using the experience from your prior Combine) and eventually get yourself naturally meeting the Combine profit target.
Guys trading takes time. We recommend that if you are feeling forced you size down. If you can't trade small you can not trade big.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
josh- If your focus is meeting the Rules of the Combine there should be no greater or lesser importance of any day over another.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following user says Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Lastly, I do want to say that recruits in the Combine will have one profit target (at each Combine level) that they can choose either 10 days (within 30 calendar) or 20 days (within 60 calendar) to naturally achieve while following the rules.
For those that have been in the 20 day Combine this is a drastic decrease (up to 30%) in the profits that one needs to achieve.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
I agree that you have made things easier...for the 20 day combine....I signed up for 10 day Monday night...get changes Tuesday night...so yes 20 day is easier but not for me....If i had known on Monday that you would relax structure on Tuesday would not have signed up for 10 day....that's my point....
Current 30k 20 day minimum combine to be completed in 2 months:
In two months there are an average of 42 trading days. The profit target is currently $2000. Therefore an average of 2000 / 42 = $47.62 per day is required
New 30k 20 day limit combine to be completed in 2 months (BUT: when you reach 20 traded days the combine ends). The new profit target is $1500
Therefore an average of 1500 / 20 = $75 per day is required
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 2 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Mike- You're correct. We are able to work with you just explain the situation to one of our support team and they will help ensure you are in the best position.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Darkpool- The first example is trading every single day.
The second example is going back to looking for a trader that has patience and waits for the market to come to them. A trader that treats every day with the utmost importance. This was effective prior to TST introducing the minimum Combine and it will continue to be effective after removing the minimum. If you guys think I'm wrong look at the trade reports for those that have been funded.. They use 10 or 20 days depending on what they signed up for. They do not use 42 days.
We have studied this for a while and concluded that the minimum Combine format needed to be adjusted. It will be adjusted next week. In the last three years we've made continuous changes to the Combine that are in the trader AND equity partner's best interest (as we represent both). This is our most recent change and we look to produce even better talent going forward.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 5 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
curious about t4....is it viable in comparison to NT....I use MC for charting and only use NT for execution with 2 active doms...1 dom uses autotrail OCO stop....other is manually adjusted OCO...
I will take the time to learn t4 if it's workable....does the t4 platform have a RT balance update while in the combine....or do you need to fly blind and login to 3rd party site to confirm combine trades and day's equity....don't see how that works for anyone
LG
The following user says Thank You to 9baller for this post:
LG- Yes, you can use the t4 dom to enter your orders and the NT to analyze and stick with what is comfortable. We do have recruits in the Combine that have been doing this for sometime.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following user says Thank You to Topstep for this post:
9baller- I fully understand. Trading can be hard enough. The last thing you want is anything distracting you from staying focused. I stopped by the support room today and asked Erin, Director of Operations, to tell the team to look out for your email. Let me know if they are not able to help.
mp
If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Topstep for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,360 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,045 given,
96,616
received
Tip
There will be a Live AMA session on Thursday, July 25th @ 12:00 PM ET.
- Quick and casual, 30 minute cap
- No prepared presentation
- Live screen sharing
- Floor will be opened immediately to questions
- Recording uploaded to AMA thread afterwards
- Attend live to get your questions answered
I know you have been very faithful with CTS T4 and I am not aware of what kind of a business relationship you have with CTS. However, just out of curiosity why would you never consider switching over to OEC. Rock solid, no problem with Ninja and plenty of other options. I was trading practice in T4 and real live on OEC side by side when the #'s came out this morning. T4 dom couldnt even keep up with it (and it was on auto center) and OEC was sailing smoothly. OEC has "EVERYTHING" that T4 offers and plenty more options. Its been built right from ground up. Plenty of options including individual legs for each lot in OEC. I know it a big step but sometimes you have to sell the beatup car cause the repairs are more than the cost of a new one. I know my rant isnt going to make a difference but after working with T4 over a month it still has same issues over and over and its just the platform.
The following user says Thank You to garyboy275 for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,360 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,045 given,
96,616
received
I would like to remind everyone that TopstepTrader is offering futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite Member's 20% off their first combine. I know there has been a lot of activity on this thread recently so wanted to mention it. I was working on that page tonight as I am planning to add another partner offer soon.
I've said it before and will just offer the friendly reminder, that there are other software apps that work perfectly out of the box with TST with their CTS data besides T4. Not sure why TST does not ever mention alternatives. Those who have been waiting for 6-8 months could have already been using something else which you might even like better, or at least given it a shot.
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
It amazes and amuses me - people letting opportunity pass by due to some tools attachments. Imagine a construction worker passes on a possibly career-changing contract due to inability to take his gismo-ladden laser-guided pneumo-drill to the a new construction site and despising the idea of working with electric drill preferring sitting on welfare!
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xelaar for this post:
Not to go too off-topic here, but I honestly think that T4 too is a gizmo-laden laser-guided pneumatic drill.
And I saying this because I haven't used other tools in the combine - just that T4 fulfills its responsibilities and it serves it purpose very well.
As for the defects - problems with scaling positions, problems with non-scalable basic charts (see edit below) etc. I agree - but I try to keep my data platform separate from execution platform so that isn't an issue.
For me T4 as an execution platform is "between good and great".
Edit:
For the UI challenged amongst us (includes me!) @xelaar outlined the procedure to scale charts:
Drag time or price scale bars on bottom or right side of the chart with right mouse button pressed instead of left (for scrolling).
Thanks @xelaar - you are true to your image that John projected in your interview - "goes out of the way to help others".
The following 2 users say Thank You to iqgod for this post:
Charts are perfectly scalable. Actually I like T4 charts way more than Ninja. I consider Ninja charting inferior to many platforms, graphically-wise and user-friendliness wise. Multicharts can stand well with T4, not Ninja. DOM is much better in T4 than in Ninja and especially MC. It lacks strategies, that probably the only real fault of T4.
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xelaar for this post:
I believe the reason for this is that CTS gets "unfiltered" data whereas other platforms get packets of data. The unfiltered data takes more time to update in the DOM but the orders are processed the same. The downside to filtered (packet) data is that you will not get accurate bid/ask data at the individual tick level. This is the primary reason T4 is considered a "professional" platform and Ninjatrader (among others) is a "retail" platform. The downside to unfiltered data is that the printed price on the DOM lags that actual market, however if you place an order it is processed in real time regardless of what the DOM is showing. For example, in a fast market when the DOM is lagging and you place a limit order the DOM may seem to "trade around" your price but in fact the actual market has moved beyond the reach of your order.
I'm don't have an opinion on which is better for the retail trader yet.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
The following 2 users say Thank You to Surly for this post:
What you are saying might be true for Ninja, Sierra etc but I have "Battle-tested" OEC during the recent flash crash so I don't think what you are saying applies to OEC. I ll try to make a video of OEC vs T4 sometime if I can get a reliable video capture during a #'s release-the only problem is that I generally trade the volatility so I have to give up that to make the video but I will try at some point in time. That will clarify a lot of things I am trying to say when you place two dom's side by side.
The following user says Thank You to garyboy275 for this post:
I'm not sure I want to jump into this, but, I sort of agree with @xelaar about the general subject of tools: I found T4 to be good enough, as in, when I knew I had a trade, I just entered it into the T4 DOM, no big deal. It went in. I had a position, and maybe I made money, maybe not. (I used NT to make the decisions, because I liked and was used to the tools I had there.... But the same could be said for other platforms -- what you're used to matters.)
Not to say that there isn't anything better than T4 -- in fact, it's pretty limited. But it won't make the difference between whether you are profitable or not. No disrespect intended, but that's not your edge.
Basically, it's not the platform that makes you money. (And I agree that some are better than others. And I'm not thrilled with T4. But it works well enough.)
I don't mean any antagonism to anyone, or to their preferences, it's just my observation.
Bob.
The following 3 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
In my opinion, the true value of T4 vs. other platforms is server side placement of stop and OCO orders. This means that, once orders are placed and a position is entered, the corresponding stop and linked profit target are held at the server. Seems obvious, but what does this really mean to the trader, or in this case, the backer (TST)? It means that once the trader has an OPEN position, risk is predetermined and measurably controlled without any additional input from the trader. Once the connected target or stop order is hit and filled,the OPEN position will be closed, the trader will be flat, and no orders will remain on the DOM (unless the trader has resting orders, above or below the market, which per TSTs requirement are resting OCO orders, and limited to the maximum allowable size of the related account) But why is that so important? RISK control. If you are trading electronically, you are remotely accessing the markets, and in TSTs case, these traders are remote from all around the world. Every trader has connection risk and lag risk per their individual geographical location and ISP. Not to mention life risk (trader has emergency and has to step away from computer - this could be anything from a bathroom or smoke break, a phone call, a diaper change, to a heart attack - you get the idea). Also add in hardware or software concerns and you begin to get the real picture of the enormous risk involved.
So as an individual trader, or as a backer, how do you attempt to address this risk? First, by limiting any newly opened trades to be generated only as OCO orders and second, make certain those orders are held at the server. Which in T4s case is right at the exchange and is privy to all the advantages that entails.
Has your internet ever gone down? Has your trading ever been interrupted by life? Ever had a computer hardware/software malfunction?
If anything interferes with a traders ability to manage an open position, and no corresponding OCO is there(at the server) to manage that position - you have exposure to some serious RISK.
The following 3 users say Thank You to John32 for this post:
@John32, I agree with you. Just to be clear though, this is platform-dependent. Sierra Chart, when using CTS, also supports server-side OCO. So this is not just a platform feature, it's a CTS feature. Also, while Rithmic supports server-side OCO, Sierra does not support this capability, for example, so both the broker and the platform must support this.
Something that only T4 has, as far as I have found, is the "AutoOCO" order type. This predefines the entry, and a bracketed stop/limit all in one order. This atomizes the order, so that there is no way a position can be in the market without a stop in the market as well, at least under normal operating conditions.
While one danger is in having a local OCO, an equally large risk (if not greater) is having an OCO bracket that is created locally by the software at the time of the entry order. For example, placing an attached order / ATM / etc. to an entry order that is executed locally when the primary order is filled. Sometimes traders will place their entry orders far in advance, but the ATM/attached orders are only to be created locally. In the event of an internet failure, what you will have is an entry order at the broker/exchange, with no stop in place.
IMO, CTS's AutoOCO is a great way to ensure that the position is fully covered. However, the way for any platform to do this is very simple: place the entry order and stop order, and only after the position is filled create an OCO bracket and then cancel the existing stop order. This ensures that no matter what happens, you will have limit and stop orders held non-locally (for most all data feeds anyway), and then you can manage the position with a bracket afterward. While race conditions exist with this approach, and while only CTS's AutoOCO can atomize the order and remove the risk completely, the above is a very good solution that I'm afraid few people take because they prize their "ATM" and for some reason are too lazy to input two orders (entry and stop) when they want to initiate a position.
The following 5 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
@MarketPilot - In response to your recent question:
I am also glad to see Ninja is getting close. I have an additional question regarding Ninja licensing too. I'm curious if I have Ninja installed, will I change my current license for the combine or install a second instance of Ninja? I know I can not run two instances of the same Ninja, but I have not tried to install to two different directories and run two separate copies.
To answer:
At this point in time, a license key for Ninja is included with your Combine deposit. if you became funded utilizing Ninja, you would then be responsible for having your own license key.
The following user says Thank You to victoria for this post:
You are provided a separate license key for use in the combine...that license key enables the TopStep data feed 'Big tick/cts" in the data feed provider window under account connections...It is not visible under your currrent license key....if you are funded and trade through NT...you will use your own license key at that point...I am told....
when you reenter your existing license key after combine or during...your existing account connections are recalled.
The following 2 users say Thank You to 9baller for this post:
I am not certain if this quote was directed at me or not but for one it is a wise ass insensitive remark....two you are making assumptions...and three you obviously are not familair with NT because if you were you would not use T4....
T4
Doesn’t cancel bracket orders if you exit @ market or limit order…they must be cancelled manually
Doesn’t adjust quantities if I scale in/out of position with OCO orders in the que…
Doesn’t adjust stop/ exit quantities if a manually placed stop is working….and I scale in/out…
When clicking on stop orders they disappear….and stop goes invisible on drag
Before each action you have to highlight the action buttons prior to execution (T.S.SL.OCO.etc)
IMO the risk of being double filled/accidentally reversing or having a naked position is too high....
SC is overoptioned IMO....don't like it either....
after using NT for several years why would I want to fumble around with inferior tools and potentially waste a combine deposit and professional capiatlization, when NT works perfectly and my command of the software is automatic....why you think so many are waiting for it....why have "fat finger stress" trading is hard enough
The following user says Thank You to 9baller for this post:
Almost all talk about which ladder is better can be summed up this way:
1.Unconscious incompetence The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
2.Conscious incompetence Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
3.Conscious competence The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
4.Unconscious competence The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
The following 2 users say Thank You to John32 for this post:
