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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (Founder) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)


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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (Founder) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

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  #901 (permalink)
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ignacio90 View Post
@TopstepTrader

I have read that the following rule are no longer required to FTP:

Maintain an Account Balance greater than 0 after a minimum of 10 trading days

Will this be the same to the Funded Account? Can someone have a negative result after 10 trading days without hit the loss max limit, or daily loss limit and remain in the funded account?

Thank you

@ignacio90 - You are correct, this is no longer a rule in the Funded Account as well. So in your example if you have a negative account balance after 10 trading days and have not hit your Daily/Weekly Loss Limit or Max Drawdown you will remain in the Funded Account and can continue to trade.

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matthew28 View Post
I like the 10 day rule change but am not so keen on this one.

'Funded Trader Preparation will now have the same profit targets as the Trading Combine'

My understanding is that when trading the FTP you used to have to use the live scaling plan.
The large Combines to me always seemed the hardest to pass, now:
150k Combine: max lots 15, profit target $9,000.
150k FTP: max lots starting at three, profit target raised from $3,000 to $9,000.
I thought the original goal of FTP after passing the Combine was to trade focussed on risk control for a reduced profit target. Now it just seems to be to repeat the same thing again.
It certainly disincentivises the large Combines.
I am doing a 30K combine. I only trade two lots anyway, out of the Combine max of three, so that wouldn't change but the FTP profit target will now rise from $500 to $1,500.

@matthew28 - Thank you for the feedback. It's important to note that you have as much time as you need to meet the objective in Funded Trader Preparation now. Also, the scaling plan does scale up pretty quickly according to your account balance.

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TopstepTrader has ELIMINATED two Rules!

New Year, New Opportunities

Effective Thursday, January 12, 2017, the following rules are no longer required in Funded Trader Preparation™ and Funded Accounts™:

1.) Only trade the Trading Combine/Funded Trader Preparation products you were profitable in
2.) Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days

Over the years, these rules have allowed many traders to fine-tune their strategies while building their accounts and, although we are providing more autonomy in accounts, we encourage traders to continue to set their own individual guidelines.

However, as we grow, we want to open our parameters to grant us the ability to evaluate as many strategies as possible to further our mission of empowering anyone, anywhere. In order to allow this and still evaluate based on true performance, Funded Trader Preparation will now have the same profit targets as the Trading Combine.

Will More Freedom Mean More Success in 2017?

We know this has already been being discussed and we appreciate all the feedback. Let us know if you have any questions and keep the discussion and feedback coming.

Thanks and Trade Well!

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  #904 (permalink)
emptymind
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Am I seeing this right? The weekly loss limit is the same as the daily loss limit in FTP and combine?

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  #905 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emptymind View Post
Am I seeing this right? The weekly loss limit is the same as the daily loss limit in FTP and combine?

There's no weekly loss limit in the Combine.

The situation in FTP and Funded accounts is a little hard to figure out, frankly. I'll summarize it as well as I can, based on what is on the TST website as of this morning. I hope that @TopstepTrader will help us out by responding to this post.

(A) As I read it, in both the FTP and the Funded Account, the weekly loss limit and the daily loss limit are the same, and are the same as the daily loss limit was in your Combine (exception: there is no weekly limit if you passed the 30K Combine.)

(B) The weekly number is simply based on the sum of your daily losses for the week. So if your weekly limit is 1,000, and on two of the days in the week you are down $500 and then $501 the next day, you are over your weekly limit. Or, if you were down $200 a day for each of the first four days, and then $201 on Friday, you are are also done. (You can reach but not exceed the limit.)

(C) The "weekly" limit is apparently an actual per-calendar-week number. That is, if you are close to the weekly limit on Wednesday, you can just wait until the following Monday and the weekly total resets. So if you stop trading before you hit the limit, and wait for the calendar week to elapse, you're OK again. Or so it seems to me, as of now.

(D) Also, the weekly limit goes away once your Trailing Max Drawdown "reaches the starting balance," which is zero in both the FTP and Funded accounts. (The FTP and Funded Account "account balance" only keeps track of your profit/loss.) The Trailing Max Drawdown is simply a fixed amount that is deducted from your highest account balance. So if your MDD is $2,000, and your highest point reached so far was +$500, then you can't go back down below -$1,500. It obviously trails up as you have higher profits, and it stops going up when it reaches the starting point of zero. So when you have made $2,000, in this example, the MDD is now zero ($2,000 highest point minus $2,000 MDD), and the weekly limit goes away, never to return. I think.

I am attaching screen shots from the web site pertaining to each of these points to show where I got them from.:

What the Weekly Loss Limits are:



Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235512107-Funded-Trader-Preparation-Parameters

--------------------
How calculated, as well as eliminated when trailing drawdown reached original balance:



Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514647-What-is-the-Weekly-Loss-Limit-

-----------------
Eliminated for FTP as well, when TMDD reaches original balance:




Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235512167-Funded-Trader-Preparation-Rules

Can @TopstepTrader please chime in and confirm or correct these interpretations?

Also, can you please explain why these particular rules make sense, particularly when other complicated rules are being eliminated? Obviously, they limit the losses that traders can pile up, but so does the Trailing Max Drawdown, in a more straightforward and clear way.

This is not meant as a negative or critical question. But this rule does introduce more chances to fail, with no clear advantage in terms of long-term profitability for the trader or the firm. (Naysayers, which I am not, can have their own views, but my question is a simple request for clarification.)

Bob.

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  #906 (permalink)
 moerfutures 
Dallas Tx/USA
 
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It would be nice if there was a user end feature with RTrader that would allow the user to set their own risk parameters (never to exceed the broker or TST). I have asked Jonathan and Eric at Rithmic to implement the end user risk management controls. It would have really helped me along the way with TST.


This can be done with Amp upon request to their trade manager, and probably many other brokers have this feature upon request.... Just FYI

Sincerely,
Dee

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 Scalpingtrader 
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moerfutures View Post
It would be nice if there was a user end feature with RTrader that would allow the user to set their own risk parameters (never to exceed the broker or TST). I have asked Jonathan and Eric at Rithmic to implement the end user risk management controls. It would have really helped me along the way with TST.





This can be done with Amp upon request to their trade manager, and probably many other brokers have this feature upon request.... Just FYI



Sincerely,

Dee



I certainly would very much appreciate such a feature, too. And I believe that specially for the live accounts this would be a great way to mitigate risk in a very controlled and individual way.
And thanks for pointing out the general possibility - this is actually something I have been looking for online for quite a while, dunno why the brokers aren't more open in using that point to their advantage i.e. marketing it.

Cheers, ST.
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 moerfutures 
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Well Jonathan Walden and Eric Aversa (owners of Rithmic)said it is on their "to do" list but I think an indicator could be created faster, I just don't know how to yet ... Maybe someone could for NT8

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bobwest View Post
There's no weekly loss limit in the Combine.

The situation in FTP and Funded accounts is a little hard to figure out, frankly. I'll summarize it as well as I can, based on what is on the TST website as of this morning. I hope that @TopstepTrader will help us out by responding to this post.

(A) As I read it, in both the FTP and the Funded Account, the weekly loss limit and the daily loss limit are the same, and are the same as the daily loss limit was in your Combine (exception: there is no weekly limit if you passed the 30K Combine.)

(B) The weekly number is simply based on the sum of your daily losses for the week. So if your weekly limit is 1,000, and on two of the days in the week you are down $500 and then $501 the next day, you are over your weekly limit. Or, if you were down $200 a day for each of the first four days, and then $201 on Friday, you are are also done. (You can reach but not exceed the limit.)

(C) The "weekly" limit is apparently an actual per-calendar-week number. That is, if you are close to the weekly limit on Wednesday, you can just wait until the following Monday and the weekly total resets. So if you stop trading before you hit the limit, and wait for the calendar week to elapse, you're OK again. Or so it seems to me, as of now.

(D) Also, the weekly limit goes away once your Trailing Max Drawdown "reaches the starting balance," which is zero in both the FTP and Funded accounts. (The FTP and Funded Account "account balance" only keeps track of your profit/loss.) The Trailing Max Drawdown is simply a fixed amount that is deducted from your highest account balance. So if your MDD is $2,000, and your highest point reached so far was +$500, then you can't go back down below -$1,500. It obviously trails up as you have higher profits, and it stops going up when it reaches the starting point of zero. So when you have made $2,000, in this example, the MDD is now zero ($2,000 highest point minus $2,000 MDD), and the weekly limit goes away, never to return. I think.

I am attaching screen shots from the web site pertaining to each of these points to show where I got them from.:

What the Weekly Loss Limits are:



Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235512107-Funded-Trader-Preparation-Parameters

--------------------
How calculated, as well as eliminated when trailing drawdown reached original balance:



Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514647-What-is-the-Weekly-Loss-Limit-

-----------------
Eliminated for FTP as well, when TMDD reaches original balance:




Link: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235512167-Funded-Trader-Preparation-Rules

Can @TopstepTrader please chime in and confirm or correct these interpretations?

Also, can you please explain why these particular rules make sense, particularly when other complicated rules are being eliminated? Obviously, they limit the losses that traders can pile up, but so does the Trailing Max Drawdown, in a more straightforward and clear way.

This is not meant as a negative or critical question. But this rule does introduce more chances to fail, with no clear advantage in terms of long-term profitability for the trader or the firm. (Naysayers, which I am not, can have their own views, but my question is a simple request for clarification.)

Bob.

@bobwest - As always, thank you for your diligence! You're interpretation of these rules are correct and you've also highlighted the relevant help center articles, so thank you.

The Weekly Loss Limit causes our traders to be more risk averse when they begin trading in their Funded Account. This means they are risking less in terms of contract size and focusing on more high probability trades to build their equity balance consciously and deliberately. Prior to implementing the scaling plan and Weekly Loss Limit, some traders would come onto the Funded Account and whether due to excitement or some other factors would begin trading right away with larger size and unfortunately quickly hit their loss limits and lose the account.

The WLL is in place to deter that type of behavior and encourage traders to focus on low risk base hit trades that steadily build their equity. We always want traders to "trade for tomorrow" and increase their longevity and odds of long term success in the Funded Account, we believe this rule helps accomplishes that.

Hope that helps!

Trade well,

TopstepTrader Team

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 ratfink 
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@TopstepTrader

Any likely news on FDAX/FDXM this quarter/year?

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ratfink View Post
@TopstepTrader

Any likely news on FDAX/FDXM this quarter/year?

@ratfink - Unfortunately, a working relationship with Eurex and/or it's vendors has proven more difficult than we anticipated. It's something we made a hard push for via various channels only to come up disappointed in 2016. We're still exploring avenues to be able to offer their products, but at this time I have no real update. I wish I had better news, but please know we continue to try to push it forward via our Clearing and Data Vendor relationships.

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 bobwest 
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TopstepTrader View Post
@ratfink - Unfortunately, a working relationship with Eurex and/or it's vendors has proven more difficult than we anticipated. It's something we made a hard push for via various channels only to come up disappointed in 2017. We're still exploring avenues to be able to offer their products, but at this time I have no real update. I wish I had better news, but please know we continue to try to push it forward via our Clearing and Data Vendor relationships.

Am I right in thinking that EUREX (and ICE) are available in the Funded Account?

Is there a time limit you have to wait first?

Bob.

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bobwest View Post
Am I right in thinking that EUREX (and ICE) are available in the Funded Account?

Is there a time limit you have to wait first?

Bob.

@bobwest - You are correct. You can trade both EUREX and ICE immediately in the Funded Account now that there is no longer a 10-day rule. Also, it is worth noting that E-mini Russell 2000 (TF) is coming back to CME on July 1, 2017. CME will then have exclusive rights to the product for 10 years. Therefore, come July we are very excited to offer the Russel as a product in the Trading Combine.

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 forgiven 
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what present of funded traders make 200,000 a year , what present of funded traders stay funded and trading with you for 12 straight months ...thanks

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  #915 (permalink)
 Raider 
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So ZB and other interest rate products roll tomorrow. Tonight is Sunday the 26th @ 7pm my time. There was an email that said products roll on the 27th, so the Sunday night before Monday the 27th should traders use the march contracts or the June contracts? When exactly does it roll? 12 am EST?


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 KahunaDog 
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Which Money Management style have you found to be the most consistently profitable for your combine candidates? Does it differ from your prop firm contractors(traders)?

The risk of a huge drawdown for catastrophic wins may not be feasible... vs the analogy of the tortoise and hare.

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I would like to share with the futures.io community the exciting news that I have made the decision to transition from Chief Executive Officer (CEO) to the role of Chief Visionary Officer (CVO). TopstepTrader has an incredible team in place, which has allowed me to focus once again on what I truly love: being involved in the markets and working closely with you and our community of traders.

As CVO, I will remain the leading force in driving consistent improvement and innovation at TopstepTrader. I am, and will continue to be, YOUR voice and advocate. I am excited to focus on re-engaging with our community, through our Squawk Radio broadcast and other in-person opportunities.

Stepping into the role of CEO is Jay Rudman, our current Chief Growth Officer. I have known and worked with Jay for years and have always been impressed with his ability to take companies to the next level. I am confident that he is the right person to expand TopstepTrader’s offerings and opportunities, and I look forward to leading with Jay in my new formative role.

Continue to trade well and thank you for remaining loyal TopstepTrader advocates.

Michael Patak
Founder and CVO, TopstepTrader


I encourage you to join me on this week’s “In the Know with the CVO” on Friday, March 10 at 10:00 AM CT, which will be live-streamed through TopstepTrader’s Facebook page.

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 aquarian1 
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@TopstepTrader

Micheal.

I would like to know upon being a funded trader if in addition to a contract between TST and the Funded Trader is the funded trader
also required to sign a contract between the funded trader and a futures brokerage firm?

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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aquarian1 View Post
@TopstepTrader

Micheal.

I would like to know upon being a funded trader if in addition to a contract between TST and the Funded Trader is the funded trader
also required to sign a contract between the funded trader and a futures brokerage firm?


@aquarian1 Thanks for reaching out! The trading agreement is between the funded trader and our proprietary trading firm. However, since you are trading on a sub account of the prop firms master account the prop firm technically owns the brokerage account. Therefore, there is no contract directly between the funded trader and the brokerage firm.

Trade well!

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forgiven View Post
what present of funded traders make 200,000 a year , what present of funded traders stay funded and trading with you for 12 straight months ...thanks


Thanks for reaching out! We can't share personal financial information about our traders. However it may be helpful to know that the weekly profit average among our funded traders is $549 and we average 52 funded traders per month. We offer performance coaching so that all of our funded traders have plenty of resources to assure they can trade their best and keep the funded trader status.

Trade Well

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  #921 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
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TopstepTrader View Post
Thanks for reaching out! We can't share personal financial information about our traders. However it may be helpful to know that the weekly profit average among our funded traders is $549 and we average 52 funded traders per month. We offer performance coaching so that all of our funded traders have plenty of resources to assure they can trade their best and keep the funded trader status.

Trade Well

I am curious to know, is topsteptrader making more money from people who take a combine or from the profit made by your funded traders?

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  #922 (permalink)
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KahunaDog View Post
Which Money Management style have you found to be the most consistently profitable for your combine candidates? Does it differ from your prop firm contractors(traders)?

The risk of a huge drawdown for catastrophic wins may not be feasible... vs the analogy of the tortoise and hare.


Thanks for the question. Trade and money management is left to the Trading Combine traders, and their strategies vary greatly so we don't view any particular style to be better than another. We do find that those who are able to maintain the same management when in a Funded Account are more successful. It's all about the trader following the plan that led them to consistency and profitability. Hope this helps!

Trade Well

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  #923 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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TopstepTrader View Post
Thanks for reaching out! We can't share personal financial information about our traders. However it may be helpful to know that the weekly profit average among our funded traders is $549 and we average 52 funded traders per month. We offer performance coaching so that all of our funded traders have plenty of resources to assure they can trade their best and keep the funded trader status.

Trade Well

nice that you have averages... what is the average in weeks are months a funded trader stays funded.

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Raider View Post
So ZB and other interest rate products roll tomorrow. Tonight is Sunday the 26th @ 7pm my time. There was an email that said products roll on the 27th, so the Sunday night before Monday the 27th should traders use the march contracts or the June contracts? When exactly does it roll? 12 am EST?


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Hi Raider, sorry for the delayed response on this. For future reference, per the Trading Combine Rules, you must only trade the “front month” contracts for all products. The front month contract is the most liquid of futures contracts. The futures "rollover" is a period of time when one product month is going to expire, and longer-term traders who intend to remain in the position need to "offset" their position in the expiring contract month and re-open their position in the longer term "new" contract month. Hope this helps!

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  #925 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB and free NT
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
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@TopstepTrader
Hi Micheal,

Below is what I understand from what I have been able to piece together. Is this correct?

You lose your funded account if:
  1. You exceed the max drawdown (e.g. $2,000) in the first ten days.
  2. You exceed your daily loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.
  3. You exceed your weekly loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.
  4. You fail to make a net profit in the first 10 days after receiving your funded account.
  5. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.
  6. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.
  7. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times
  8. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

After the first ten days, you lose your funded account if:
  1. You let your "net profit position on deposit" drop below $0.
  2. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.
  3. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.
  4. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times.
  5. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

---------------
"net profit position on deposit"
= e.g. If you were funded with $50,000 and made $2,500 and then withdrew $2,000 your net profit position on deposit would equal $500 less exchange fees ($65/mo) = $435. This is another way of saying your watermark is $50,435.

If you lose your funded account you drop back into the combines - no 1 free combine anymore.
===========

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #926 (permalink)
 Opstar 
Wherever I want to be
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: FGBL CL
 
Posts: 95 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 180 given, 86 received

Hi im not Michael but from experience,

Below is what I understand from what I have been able to piece together. Is this correct?

You lose your funded account if:
  1. You exceed the max drawdown (e.g. $2,000) in the first ten days.

    Not just first ten days but anytime time in any of your TST account if the trailing max drawdown is hit. Unless you have already made gains far beyond in the funded account and changed risk parameters,
  2. You exceed your daily loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.

    Same as above. You should never be hitting any loss limits.
  3. You exceed your weekly loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.

    Same as above
  4. You fail to make a net profit in the first 10 days after receiving your funded account.

    I believe this rule no longer exists. You are okay as long as you do not hit loss limits even if in negative p&l after 10 days.
  5. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.

    The system doesnt let you trade more than what is accessible to you. I.e. your current scaling plan. Note that if youve made profits allowing for more contracts, you can still trade the same number of contracts even after losing it below that threshold. Though I wouldnt recommend trading max contracts if you are on a losing streak because loss limits are just that much closer.

  6. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.

    System will reject your orders outside allowed times. If you are already in a trade before those hours, i guesss theoretically that can happen. Im not too sure about it as I dont purposely take the risk to find out. Regarding rollovers, I was able to trade both contracts on the same day without penalty. They send you emails to rollover anyway, I just switch as long as volume switches.

  7. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times.
    4
    Haven't tried.


  8. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

    Same as above

After the first ten days, you lose your funded account if:
  1. You let your "net profit position on deposit" drop below $0

    Not anymore
  2. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.

    Orders simply rejected beyond scaling plan
  3. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.
  4. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times.
  5. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

---------------
"net profit position on deposit"
= e.g. If you were funded with $50,000 and made $2,500 and then withdrew $2,000 your net profit position on deposit would equal $500 less exchange fees ($65/mo) = $435. This is another way of saying your watermark is $50,435.

Im actually confused about this one. But the exchange fee gets charged separately (to your credit card) so just look at the account balance after trades. They calculate profits minus comms so likely wont see a difference.

If you lose your funded account you drop back into the combines - no 1 free combine anymore.

True. No more free combines. Matter of starting from scratch again.

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  #927 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB and free NT
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 4,033 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 1,507 given, 2,585 received

@Opstar
I think this thread is for Micheal to answer questions.
(please reply in other thread).

..........
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I am curious to know, is topsteptrader making more money from people who take a combine or from the profit made by your funded traders?


Hi, thanks for your question. Depending on the Trading Combine® size, the price differs. A Trading Combine® ranges from $150 - $375. This cost recurs every month until the objective is met, or the account is canceled. For more information about pricing visit: https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/learn-how/

The goal is for our traders to have the opportunity to earn real money. When our funded traders do well, we do well. They keep 80% of their earnings, and we receive the other 20% after their first $5,000 earned. Our priority is to help funded traders succeed in the markets. We offer various resources to our traders to assure they have all the guidance they need/want. When our funded traders profit, we profit.

Hope this gives some more clarity. Trade Well.

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forgiven View Post
nice that you have averages... what is the average in weeks are months a funded trader stays funded.

Hi there. Thanks for the question. It really varies because trading is an individualized sport. We have traders who come onto the Funded Account™ and are very successful and have been with us for 1-2 years, traders who are successful and take their earnings to open their own account, and traders whose performance is up and down but they remain with us. While yes, unfortunately there are traders who lose their account fairly early on for breaking a rule, most re-enter the Trading Combine® with more risk management and knowledge.

Honestly though, we don't promote this type of thought process because if 100 traders go live and they all stay on the account for years making great profits, it doesn't mean you will. Alternatively, if 100 traders go live and hit their loss limits within days, it doesn't mean you will. Again, trading is an individualized sport, so we try to avoid this "herd mentality."

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  #930 (permalink)
 Maxie 
Wanzleben-Börde,Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT/MT4/J-Forex/TWS
Broker: DDT/Continuum; AMP/Rithmic; Dukascopy; Captrader
Trading: Forex, Futures,Options
 
Posts: 47 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 293 given, 16 received

Hi Michael,

I would like to know: if you want to trade with NT, who is the license, you or I?

What are the fees per trade?
If I am for example a 50Tsd. Account, then I may have 5 trades open at the same time. If I have the closed, we take time in the plus, may I continue on the same day still continue to trade? Or only 5 Trades per day?

Is it possible to trade options?

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aquarian1 View Post
@TopstepTrader
Hi Micheal,

Below is what I understand from what I have been able to piece together. Is this correct?

You lose your funded account if:
  1. You exceed the max drawdown (e.g. $2,000) in the first ten days.
  2. You exceed your daily loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.
  3. You exceed your weekly loss limit (e.g $1,000) in the first ten days.
  4. You fail to make a net profit in the first 10 days after receiving your funded account.
  5. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.
  6. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.
  7. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times
  8. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

After the first ten days, you lose your funded account if:
  1. You let your "net profit position on deposit" drop below $0.
  2. You trade more contracts than your scaling plan.
  3. You trade contracts outside the allowed times and months and instruments.
  4. You fail to close all trades one minute prior to "economic" times.
  5. You do not close out your trades by 5mins prior the end of the trading day for that contract. (e.g. 15:10CT for ES)

---------------
"net profit position on deposit"
= e.g. If you were funded with $50,000 and made $2,500 and then withdrew $2,000 your net profit position on deposit would equal $500 less exchange fees ($65/mo) = $435. This is another way of saying your watermark is $50,435.

If you lose your funded account you drop back into the combines - no 1 free combine anymore.
===========


Thanks aquarian1 for the question. You have an accurate understanding of our program, and Opstar did a good job at confirming some of our rules. Yes, we did eliminate our 'Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days' rule. You can read more about this change here: [BREAKING] Two Rules Eliminated

To clear up any confusion, our exchange fees are actually CME data fees that are passed through to our traders. Hope this information helps, and please let us know if you have any more questions about our program.

Trade Well

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Maxie View Post
Hi Michael,

I would like to know: if you want to trade with NT, who is the license, you or I?

What are the fees per trade?
If I am for example a 50Tsd. Account, then I may have 5 trades open at the same time. If I have the closed, we take time in the plus, may I continue on the same day still continue to trade? Or only 5 Trades per day?

Is it possible to trade options?


Hi, Maxie. Thanks for your question. As a funded trader, you're responsible for providing the platform you want to use while trading. Funded traders who are interested in using NinjaTrader may receive a $100 discount on a Single Broker Lifetime License or a $300 discount on the Multi Broker Lifetime License. You can find more information on the cost of the NinjaTrader platform here.

For all information regarding NinjaTrader and fees, please reference our Profits and Fees FAQ. There are several articles in this section relevant to this topic.

Unfortunately it is not possible to trade options in our Trading Combine®. As of right now we only support the Futures Combine. Coming very soon is the The Forex Trading Combine. This will give you the same great opportunity as the Futures Combine, but will allow you to trade and be evaluated on the popular foreign exchange market.

Hope this information is helpful. Trade Well.

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  #933 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ZN, ZB, CL
 
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Posts: 367 since May 2011
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If you sign up for a $100 combine, there is also a monthly fee of $160. So for 1 month it amounts to $260. After that, you're charged $160 per month regardless whether you're in a combine or not? What is the $160 for?
Someone may have asked this question before - so a link to the answer would be fine.
Thanks.

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phantomtrader View Post
If you sign up for a $100 combine, there is also a monthly fee of $160. So for 1 month it amounts to $260. After that, you're charged $160 per month regardless whether you're in a combine or not? What is the $160 for?
Someone may have asked this question before - so a link to the answer would be fine.
Thanks.

Hi there. The monthly renewal cost of the Trading Combine® is set to recur once a month from the signup date, until completed or canceled. You may reset this account at any time for $100 by clicking on the "Reset" button on your Trade Report. This will reset your starting balance and rules but will not affect your monthly renewal date. For more information on Trading Combine® sizes and pricing head to our Learn How page and scroll down to step 1. Hope this helps.

Trade Well

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  #935 (permalink)
pavanb15589
Bangalore+India
 
 
Posts: 40 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 5 given, 26 received

I am looking at the below configuration on an Ultrabook for my Trading with Ninjatrader (With TopStepTrader).

7th Generation Intel Core i3-7100U Processor (2.4GHz, 3MB L3 Cache)
14" Full HD (1920 x 1080) Widescreen LED-backlit Display
4GB DDR4 Onboard Memory, 128GB SSD
Windows 10 Home

Is this enough or should I go for a higher Memory and i5 Processor. This falls into my budget. Currently I work on a desktop with 8GB Ram and 4th Gen i5 Processor.


Please advice..!!

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  #936 (permalink)
 lemons 
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: NAS100
 
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Posts: 942 since Nov 2010
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pavanb15589 View Post
I am looking at the below configuration on an Ultrabook for my Trading with Ninjatrader (With TopStepTrader).

7th Generation Intel Core i3-7100U Processor (2.4GHz, 3MB L3 Cache)
14" Full HD (1920 x 1080) Widescreen LED-backlit Display
4GB DDR4 Onboard Memory, 128GB SSD
Windows 10 Home

Is this enough or should I go for a higher Memory and i5 Processor. This falls into my budget. Currently I work on a desktop with 8GB Ram and 4th Gen i5 Processor.


Please advice..!!

Its more than enough.

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  #937 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader & Jigsaw
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: ZB UB
 
Posts: 143 since Dec 2016

Hello, I'm wondering if the introduction of competition in this market place is perceived as a good thing by topsteptrader? Although it hasn't been launched, has topsteptrader considered matching Oneuptrader in certain ways if they come to market?


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  #938 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
Posts: 278 since Aug 2013
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forgiven View Post
what present of funded traders make 200,000 a year , what present of funded traders stay funded and trading with you for 12 straight months ...thanks


TopstepTrader View Post
Thanks for reaching out! We can't share personal financial information about our traders...

Really?





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  #939 (permalink)
 Renkotrader 
Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: NTB & Continuum
Trading: 6B, 6E, FDXM, FGBL, YM, HG, GC, CL
 
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Posts: 510 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,160 given, 212 received

The argument from @emini2000 is right and valid. There is no reason for not telling the truth. It's okay, if there are not much real successful traders measured in percent, no problem. It's not needed to get all absolutely dates, but all we ask for getting percent dates you Michael deny to telling its us. So our questions to this will not ends. We are customers. We paid, we are paying or we will pay for the Combine. Me included, I paid more than 1000$ including the resetings. So it is fair to get answers from you. Concrete facts. That is, how I am thinking about this. Sorry, if you can't agree with me. Best regards, Renkotrader.

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  #940 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
Leeds UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradingView
Broker: LCG, Oanda
Trading: ES, 6E, Cable
 
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Raider View Post
has topsteptrader considered matching Oneuptrader in certain ways if they come to market?


A little ironic, perhaps, to talk about TSt "matching" some people who have stolen so much content directly from their site? These purported "TST copycats" seem to start up three or four times a year, often (like this one) copying TST's structure identically or almost identically, and often (like this one) copying many whole paragraphs or even whole pages from TST's website, word for word.

Except without the lists of hundreds of successfully funded traders, of course - they never have that. In fact, I've never yet heard of one going on to become established and paying out earnings to a single trader.

You have to feel sorry for TST? It's evidently because they've thought up and so professionally executed this business model for so long that their success in getting traders funded and earning has now gradually spawned a never-ending succession of scammy imitators, all of which - so far - sink without trace (but often having swallowed a lot of "trial fees" in the process). And because of that, the whole "industry" they more or less started themselves, in their format anyway, is acquiring something of a scammy reputation, and some of the misinformation and ill-informed prejudice about TST itself, arising indirectly from that reality, is pretty disappointing.

Maybe this "OneUp" one will prove to be the first ever exception (irony intentional)?

If I ran TST, I really don't know whether I'd be ignoring them completely, watching them with bemusement, or serving DMCA copyright notices against their hosting companies for all the duplicate sites. I'm not sure I'd want to comment in public, though, whatever they think.

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  #941 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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emini2000 View Post
Really?ion





tionseople
we all no why, the answer would not be good for sales. if the answers was good for sales, you would see it plastered on adds that fallow you to your face book page. i think the answer is 0 to both questions ..i am glad some other people have questioned the the concept. the concept should be questioned and debated. not just lets all drink a the cool aid .

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  #942 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
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Hardly a point to this post but maybe of use to some older guys?

I went through the exercise of the 15 day trial with my assistant's friend "Jonny" who is retired & just over 60. Busy, I could only do some days.

I showed him how to trade using no more than 4 cars for a couple of hours a session together and did fine (days marked R).

No surprise, I have 3 years experience in scalping. TST seemed perfectly do-able to me despite the high pro data rates and fees taking a wet bite, but on Ninja to do much better you you have to buy a lifetime license for 1k so swings and roundabouts. ES is decently priced at NT lifetime? CL would be better closer to $4.28 RT but $4.58 is not insane. If you can trade well, you could build some money no problem, there is no snag that I see beyond talent.

Anyway back to Jonny, we were not expecting him to perform well, no beginner would however... Despite being an intelligent man who had a technically complex and very responsible (for lives) job before retiring, every day Jonny had the reigns unsupervised, he got unhinged with the 15 cars available in the trial. He revenge traded or Martingale-d (which he figured out really quickly) to blow out the 3k daily limits in no time. Shouting at the screen like a sports fan. He rationalised ignoring the agreement to limit to 4 cars max, if more were available he just dipped into that reserve. It all seemed completely reasonable to him in the moment anyway. Runaway train.

It was a bit of a mystery to us both after the THIRD -3k red box (attached), that he could not use self-control repeating moments of near berserk madness. His beard was growing ok but we had his hormone levels checked (the joys of living in Colombia, medicine costs almost nothing) and found his estrogen was really high when we had assumed it was low testosterone. It seems the two can be difficult to tell apart from symptoms in men, one can even have other issues caused by abnormally low estrogen (men have a little normally).

He said it fine to share that detail of course, he is not a shy guy anyway. He has started a prescribed estrogen blocker and already a changed man. We shall put him through the TST behavioral test (aka combine) maybe in a week.

So I'd say, yeah if you are a good trader you can make it with TST handily. If your learning your learning so watch "Eddie the Eagle" when you feel down

That in some I guess rare cases (I don't encourage people to look for excuses), someone older who certainly should be a potentially good trader (by work history match etc) was hampered by age-related physical reasons is worth bearing in mind.

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  #943 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader & Jigsaw
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: ZB UB
 
Posts: 143 since Dec 2016


Rory View Post
Hardly a point to this post but maybe of use to some older guys?

I went through the exercise of the 15 day trial with my assistant's friend "Jonny" who is retired & just over 60. Busy, I could only do some days.

I showed him how to trade using no more than 4 cars for a couple of hours and did fine (days marked R).

No surprise, I have 3 years experience in scalping. TST seemed perfectly do-able to me despite the high pro data rates and fees taking a wet bite, but on Ninja to do much better you you have to buy a lifetime license for 1k so swings and roundabouts. ES is decently priced at NT lifetime? CL would be better closer to $4.28 RT but $4.58 is not insane. If you can trade well, you could build some money no problem, there is no snag that I see beyond talent.

Anyway back to Jonny, we were not expecting him to perform well, no beginner would however... Despite being an intelligent man who had a technically complex and very responsible (for lives) job before retiring, every day Jonny had the reigns unsupervised, he got unhinged with the 15 cars available in the trial. He revenge traded or Martingale-d (which he figured out really quickly) to blow out the 3k daily limits in no time. Shouting at the screen like a sports fan. He rationalised ignoring the agreement to limit to 4 cars max, if more were available he just dipped into that reserve. It all seemed completely reasonable to him in the moment anyway. Runaway train.

It was a bit of a mystery to us both after the THIRD -3k red box (attached), that he could not use self-control repeating moments of near berserk madness. His beard was growing ok but we had his hormone levels checked (the joys of living in Colombia, medicine costs almost nothing) and found his estrogen was really high when we had assumed it was low testosterone. It seems the two can be difficult to tell apart from symptoms in men, one can even have other issues caused by abnormally low estrogen (men have a little normally).

He said it fine to share that detail of course, he is not a shy guy anyway. He has started a prescribed estrogen blocker and already a changed man. We shall put him through the TST behavioral test (aka combine) maybe in a week.

So I'd say, yeah if you are a good trader you can make it with TST handily. If your learning your learning so watch "Eddie the Eagle" when you feel down

In some I guess rare cases (I don't encourage people to look for excuses), that someone older who certainly should be a potentially good trader (by work history match etc) however was hampered by age-related physical reasons is worth bearing in mind.






By match I mean compete with the fact that they don't have funded trader prep. It wasn't a dis on tst I'm just wondering... also, I didn't think oneuptrader was garbage -even though it is a ripoff of tst- because mes is backing it, and they have funded traders in the past. It's for sure sketch that they've said they'd launch three times now. If they don't launch in April I'm out...


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Rory
 
 
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Raider View Post
By match I mean compete with the fact that they don't have funded trader prep. It wasn't a dis on tst I'm just wondering... also, I didn't think oneuptrader was garbage -even though it is a ripoff of tst- because mes is backing it, and they have funded traders in the past. It's for sure sketch that they've said they'd launch three times now. If they don't launch in April I'm out...

Hi Raider, I was not referencing your posts in mine. Just adding to the heap of comments as I was doing the Sunday opening trades.

Name copycats rarely last long though, if TST have taken even basic IP precautions they will bring the hammer down.. it seems silly. Naughtysteptrader (c) 2017

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pavanb15589 View Post
I am looking at the below configuration on an Ultrabook for my Trading with Ninjatrader (With TopStepTrader).

7th Generation Intel Core i3-7100U Processor (2.4GHz, 3MB L3 Cache)
14" Full HD (1920 x 1080) Widescreen LED-backlit Display
4GB DDR4 Onboard Memory, 128GB SSD
Windows 10 Home

Is this enough or should I go for a higher Memory and i5 Processor. This falls into my budget. Currently I work on a desktop with 8GB Ram and 4th Gen i5 Processor.


Please advice..!!



Thanks for reaching out! Per NinjaTrader's support site:

To run NinjaTrader version 7, your system must meet these specifications:

• Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Windows Server 2008 w/ Platform Update, Windows Server 2008 R2 or later
• Minimum screen resolution of 1024 x 768
• Minimum P4 Processor or higher
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To run NinjaTrader version 8, your system must meet these minimum requirements:

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Raider View Post
Hello, I'm wondering if the introduction of competition in this market place is perceived as a good thing by topsteptrader? Although it hasn't been launched, has topsteptrader considered matching Oneuptrader in certain ways if they come to market?

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Tymbeline View Post
A little ironic, perhaps, to talk about TSt "matching" some people who have stolen so much content directly from their site? These purported "TST copycats" seem to start up three or four times a year, often (like this one) copying TST's structure identically or almost identically, and often (like this one) copying many whole paragraphs or even whole pages from TST's website, word for word.

Except without the lists of hundreds of successfully funded traders, of course - they never have that. In fact, I've never yet heard of one going on to become established and paying out earnings to a single trader.

You have to feel sorry for TST? It's evidently because they've thought up and so professionally executed this business model for so long that their success in getting traders funded and earning has now gradually spawned a never-ending succession of scammy imitators, all of which - so far - sink without trace (but often having swallowed a lot of "trial fees" in the process). And because of that, the whole "industry" they more or less started themselves, in their format anyway, is acquiring something of a scammy reputation, and some of the misinformation and ill-informed prejudice about TST itself, arising indirectly from that reality, is pretty disappointing.

Maybe this "OneUp" one will prove to be the first ever exception (irony intentional)?

If I ran TST, I really don't know whether I'd be ignoring them completely, watching them with bemusement, or serving DMCA copyright notices against their hosting companies for all the duplicate sites. I'm not sure I'd want to comment in public, though, whatever they think.


Thank you for the question, Raider. Tymbeline, that was a very well worded response. We appreciate the thought that went into that.

To address OneUp Trader, we welcome competition. It further validates us as the market leader and ensures we never get complacent. We're confident our product and support will win in the marketplace. We appreciate the loyalty we have from our traders and are not concerned by other entrants to the market. We hope this helps give some clarity on where TopstepTrader stands with this issue. Trade Well.

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Rory View Post
Hardly a point to this post but maybe of use to some older guys?

I went through the exercise of the 15 day trial with my assistant's friend "Jonny" who is retired & just over 60. Busy, I could only do some days.

I showed him how to trade using no more than 4 cars for a couple of hours a session together and did fine (days marked R).

No surprise, I have 3 years experience in scalping. TST seemed perfectly do-able to me despite the high pro data rates and fees taking a wet bite, but on Ninja to do much better you you have to buy a lifetime license for 1k so swings and roundabouts. ES is decently priced at NT lifetime? CL would be better closer to $4.28 RT but $4.58 is not insane. If you can trade well, you could build some money no problem, there is no snag that I see beyond talent.

Anyway back to Jonny, we were not expecting him to perform well, no beginner would however... Despite being an intelligent man who had a technically complex and very responsible (for lives) job before retiring, every day Jonny had the reigns unsupervised, he got unhinged with the 15 cars available in the trial. He revenge traded or Martingale-d (which he figured out really quickly) to blow out the 3k daily limits in no time. Shouting at the screen like a sports fan. He rationalised ignoring the agreement to limit to 4 cars max, if more were available he just dipped into that reserve. It all seemed completely reasonable to him in the moment anyway. Runaway train.

It was a bit of a mystery to us both after the THIRD -3k red box (attached), that he could not use self-control repeating moments of near berserk madness. His beard was growing ok but we had his hormone levels checked (the joys of living in Colombia, medicine costs almost nothing) and found his estrogen was really high when we had assumed it was low testosterone. It seems the two can be difficult to tell apart from symptoms in men, one can even have other issues caused by abnormally low estrogen (men have a little normally).

He said it fine to share that detail of course, he is not a shy guy anyway. He has started a prescribed estrogen blocker and already a changed man. We shall put him through the TST behavioral test (aka combine) maybe in a week.

So I'd say, yeah if you are a good trader you can make it with TST handily. If your learning your learning so watch "Eddie the Eagle" when you feel down

That in some I guess rare cases (I don't encourage people to look for excuses), someone older who certainly should be a potentially good trader (by work history match etc) was hampered by age-related physical reasons is worth bearing in mind.

Thanks for sharing, Rory. This could be very helpful to other traders. We look forward to seeing your friend in the Trading Combine®!

Trade Well

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forgiven View Post
tionseople
we all no why, the answer would not be good for sales. if the answers was good for sales, you would see it plastered on adds that fallow you to your face book page. i think the answer is 0 to both questions ..i am glad some other people have questioned the the concept. the concept should be questioned and debated. not just lets all drink a the cool aid .


emini2000 View Post
Really?






Thank you all for sharing your concerns @Renkotrader, @emini2000, and @forgiven. We never want to hide information from our users, however our traders have the choice to opt out of our monthly highlight emails. We share with the public, what our traders are comfortable with. We always want to post about our traders’ success, but that is up to the discretion of the trader. The best interest of our traders always comes first.

Knowing how well someone else does in the markets does not dictate how another person will perform. We share with our users information that is relevant to their individual success. Comparing one person’s success to another person’s success isn’t helpful to anyone. Success is personal.

We apologize that we are not providing what you’re specifically looking for, but we hope you understand the sensitivity associated with this question. Please feel free to reach out to individual traders and ask them about their success. They are at their own liberty to share with you what they are comfortable with.

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  #949 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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you release what you want to release. the driving factor is what sells more trading stuff. that is o.k , that is what i would do. how long a trader stays funded is a better measurement of how good your program real is. just the fact you will not release that information tells me all i need to know.

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  #950 (permalink)
 Renkotrader 
Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
 
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@TopstepTrader

I tried to explain, what I miss. We are getting sensitive informations from you about the earnings from your best traders - no problems with "personal informations".

But if I ask for a income average or how many traders are active in your company or how long is the average time for a funded traders in staying in or how much combine startings does all traders needs in average to getting real funded or or or... - then you are giving no answer. And the reason is "its a tooooo private information from our traders and customers, that we have to protect".

Aha. Hmm. I dont know, but in Germany I am used to get clear answers or to give clear answers. Your explaining is for me not clear. Its like picking the raisins out of a pott.

I know, its difficult to reach the target as funded trader. And to stay in its hard, too. In telling the truth about its in percents or in absolute numbers I would get no shock. But then I could respect you in a real good way. So I am having the feeling, that there is much fake. No fair game, because you are hiding important informations against your customers they ask for.

Best regards,
Renkotrader

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 lemons 
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Renkotrader View Post
@TopstepTrader


Aha. Hmm. I dont know, but in Germany I am used to get clear answers or to give clear answers. Your explaining is for me not clear. Its like picking the raisins out of a pott.

Best regards,
Renkotrader

Really ?
We all use banks. Some use even private banking services.
Do German banks tell you average size of client portfolio ?
How many private client portfolios are they managing ?
How long average client stays with bank ?
What is average return of portfolio ?
How much the make from management fee ?
How much they make from success fee ?
And so on.

Some data is just trade secret.

Why do you need to know how much average trader makes and how long they stay with TST ?
Will it automatic mean that if you pass combine you will make same amount and stay with TST as
long as average trader ?

Some data us just trade secret

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  #952 (permalink)
 Renkotrader 
Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
 
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Not interested to spend more time in this tread - I am out.

Renkotrader

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  #953 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
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TopstepTrader View Post
Thank you all for sharing your concerns @Renkotrader, @emini2000, and @forgiven. We never want to hide information from our users, however our traders have the choice to opt out of our monthly highlight emails. We share with the public, what our traders are comfortable with. We always want to post about our traders’ success, but that is up to the discretion of the trader. The best interest of our traders always comes first.

Knowing how well someone else does in the markets does not dictate how another person will perform. We share with our users information that is relevant to their individual success. Comparing one person’s success to another person’s success isn’t helpful to anyone. Success is personal.

We apologize that we are not providing what you’re specifically looking for, but we hope you understand the sensitivity associated with this question. Please feel free to reach out to individual traders and ask them about their success. They are at their own liberty to share with you what they are comfortable with.

Trade Well

No one is asking TopStep to reveal individual trading accounts. What they're asking for are statistics. A trader's privacy is not compromised by publishing statistics as to what the outcomes are for TopStep participants in a typical year. By now TopStep must have accumulated enough data to run statistical studies. I recognize that TopStep is not a public company and has no requirement to share any information. However, it wouldn't be a bad thing for traders to see the results of the model you're running. It could be a teachable moment because many come into this business with zero knowledge as to how difficult it is to succeed. Again, you have no obligation to publish statistics but I think TopStep should be upfront about what they will and will not publish.

People pay $160 for the right to compete for funding. TopStep has no obligation to those people except to provide the platform and an assessment of their trading. There's nothing wrong with that. But some contribution to the industry as to how it really works in real time may be enlightening to those who think they are prepared to be traders.

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Thank you all for the lively discussion. As was mentioned, we are a private company and, therefore, do not release certain information, as is the industry standard for brokerages, educators, proprietary trading firms, etc. Why?

1. Trader Privacy - many of our traders, and traders in the industry, do not want their long term performance to be included in any type of data or results. The majority of our traders are fine with us sharing their performance for the day, week or month, which is also typical in the industry.
2. Relevance - trading is an individual “sport”. As @lemons mentioned, other’s success or lack thereof has zero bearing on how you or any other trader may perform and may actually negatively affect you. Focus on your own stats and your own performance and how you can improve these each day. This is a key variable in becoming a better trader.
3. Innovation - company privacy allows us to innovate more effectively, build on our proprietary processes, and be the leader in creating and delivering the most unique opportunity for traders. With increasing competition and clear copycats it becomes extremely prudent as users tend to quickly fixate on any stat that appeases them.

Lastly, we control what stats we release to the public so traders focus on realistic expectations. That said, we do share the stats below and those found on our homepage. Just a few examples include:

-$549: average weekly profit
-52: average number of traders funded per month
-$4,927: most profited in a day by a funded trader

Hopefully, you can understand our concerns and why we have this policy in place. If not, we understand this may not satisfy everyone and we wish those traders well on their personal journey.

Trade well,

Michael
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  #955 (permalink)
 icog 
Sofia Bulgaria
 
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All novice traders should be happy they have the oportunity to try something very close to the real trading for just 160 USD. Forget the SIM accounts, they are just for fun (and testing later).

Until you dont put real money, its not even close to the real thing. Be grateful you can try the real market without losing thousands of USD (like me and the majority of retail traders did at the beginning) and think of it like a tax for a school. A really cheap one.

If you prove you are good you will not be interested in things like how much the others are doing or how many people are succesfull. Instead you will be interested how to make more alone.

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 t0030tr 
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icog View Post
All novice traders should be happy they have the oportunity to try something very close to the real trading for just 160 USD. Forget the SIM accounts, they are just for fun (and testing later).

Until you dont put real money, its not even close to the real thing. Be grateful you can try the real market without losing thousands of USD (like me and the majority of retail traders did at the beginning) and think of it like a tax for a school. A really cheap one.

If you prove you are good you will not be interested in things like how much the others are doing or how many people are succesfull. Instead you will be interested how to make more alone.

Agreed

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  #957 (permalink)
 ignacio90 
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Hi,

Human nature, looking at what are doing others and how much they win, . The market is enough big for don't worried about other business models. Win money trading and forget about what are doing others. TST are facilitating an option. If you meet rules and objective, you will be funded. If you want to ask for that it's understandable, but asking for how much they win...i don't see it.
What will be different in your trading knowing those stats? Will you be a better trader? Will you win more trades? Take the combine and pass the TST and you will see how many traders are in the live trading room. Be part of his stats, because you are a winner trader and live your dream...it's easy. And if you don't need them, this means that you are enough good to live at your own pace what a few traders are able to do...

Cheers

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  #958 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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Renkotrader View Post
Not interested to spend more time in this tread - I am out.

Renkotrader

unless your serving up the cool-aid it is a waste of time. they release the data how many traders are funded a week or day, average profit per pay . but the stuff that matters is to sensitive . does any one really think that is real reason.

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  #959 (permalink)
 t0030tr 
Detroit, Michigan, USA
 
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I know you guys must get a ton of requests to nix the daily close rule. I really never understood this rule and I always thought it forces a trader into more of a day trading mentality which isn't necessarily better IMHO if your a trend follower. I mean if a trader adhere's to his daily loss limits I don't understand why a trade can't be carried overnight? Have you guys considered nixing this rule? Thanks

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  #960 (permalink)
 Raider 
Canada
 
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I wonder, how come tst changed ftp target to like double or triple (I think it was 3000->9000 on the 150k)?


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  #961 (permalink)
 lemons 
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Raider View Post
I wonder, how come tst changed ftp target to like double or triple (I think it was 3000->9000 on the 150k)?


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Wonder no more

Because its easier to pass 2 combines with unlimited trading days
than 1 combine with unlimited trading days + 1 FTP limited to 10 trading days.

Due the old 10 day trading rule many potentially success full traders didn't get funded.
Example 30k combine goal 1500 $ and old FTP combine goal was 500$.
Lets say traders average days profit is 40 $. It takes 38 days to pass combine.
10 days x 40 $ = 400 $. I call it successful trader but he will never get funded
because you can trade only 10 days by the old rule.

TST has made rules easier than before.

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 t0030tr 
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lemons View Post
Wonder no more

Because its easier to pass 2 combines with unlimited trading days
than 1 combine with unlimited trading days + 1 FTP limited to 10 trading days.

Due the old 10 day trading rule many potentially success full traders didn't get funded.
Example 30k combine goal 1500 $ and old FTP combine goal was 500$.
Lets say traders average days profit is 40 $. It takes 38 days to pass combine.
10 days x 40 $ = 400 $. I call it successful trader but he will never get funded
because you can trade only 10 days by the old rule.

TST has made rules easier than before.

If they would give up on making traders close out positions daily, it would probably draw a lot more traders and guys with different mentalities versus just holding for 1 day. I suspect you would see a great deal more sucess from more variety of traders IMHO. I completely agree though lemons, it's getting better for sure.

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  #963 (permalink)
 spectre2007 
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Its on the verge of being a defacto prop firm. Its a very good business model, they control the risk, and look for characteristics that promote longevity. Closing out trades at the end of each session, maxes out leverage. Eventually, you get a small group who have the traits to repeatedly increase account equity year over year while pulling out profits.

It would be interesting to find out, of all the traders funded, what the longest lifespan so far.


Regards,
Chris

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  #964 (permalink)
 iqgod 
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I still yearn for the good old days.... pay a deposit, take their test (combine + ftp), if passed get your deposit back. Do this in a two month period, trade 10 days of your choice.

This current subscription model simply does not cut it when you compare it with the older model.

Of course I am glad that the esoteric 'rules' are being eliminated one by one - all the older guys who failed the first model would have been funded traders in this current model.





spectre2007 View Post
Its on the verge of being a defacto prop firm. Its a very good business model, they control the risk, and look for characteristics that promote longevity. Closing out trades at the end of each session, maxes out leverage. Eventually, you get a small group who have the traits to repeatedly increase account equity year over year while pulling out profits.

It would be interesting to find out, of all the traders funded, what the longest lifespan so far.


Regards,
Chris



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  #965 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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iqgod View Post
I still yearn for the good old days.... pay a deposit, take their test (combine + ftp), if passed get your deposit back. Do this in a two month period, trade 10 days of your choice.

This current subscription model simply does not cut it when you compare it with the older model.

Of course I am glad that the esoteric 'rules' are being eliminated one by one - all the older guys who failed the first model would have been funded traders in this current model.

how many traders are funded per week and average winning day mean zip. how long do they stay funded and how many of those make a living trading is what matters. the rest is sales stuff. when they run across some one that can really trade like Jason from the oil trade room , they do not use them as a prop trader. they sell a 4,000 to 5,000 educational package around them. collecting combine fees and selling trader stuff is there real bread an butter.

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t0030tr View Post
I know you guys must get a ton of requests to nix the daily close rule. I really never understood this rule and I always thought it forces a trader into more of a day trading mentality which isn't necessarily better IMHO if your a trend follower. I mean if a trader adhere's to his daily loss limits I don't understand why a trade can't be carried overnight? Have you guys considered nixing this rule? Thanks

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Hi, t0030tr thank you for this feedback. This something that we are taking a look into. Please stay tuned for the future.

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k7ler
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I think you had made a good business model very ingenious and very good to propose to the new trader but there is a certain problem with your model know that you have to pay a certain amount of money to be finance and know a problem new trader In africa and in the middle east you do not have money to make the test and pay Price Per Month and a big problem for example I will open a small school and train young trader and propose a trading financing via your platform but the Problem that most of us but not students the way to pay Price Per Month of departure while it is talent and can gain money I talk to your company mescapital competition it say that 65% of the trader who was free to finance Test and we succeed but last mescapital has changed model because it is reaching their goal of departure I think to propose a test financing without any Price Pe R Month and a good Means and attracts more trader and after that the trader has to pass the test and that is profitable and deduct in the payment invoice .

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  #968 (permalink)
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I think you had made a good business model very ingenious and very good to propose to the new trader but there is a certain problem with your model know that you have to pay a certain amount of money to be finance and know a problem new trader In africa and in the middle east you do not have money to make the test and pay Price Per Month and a big problem for example I will open a small school and train young trader and propose a trading financing via your platform but the Problem that most of us but not students the way to pay Price Per Month of departure while it is talent and can gain money I talk to your company mescapital competition it say that 65% of the trader who was free to finance Test and we succeed but last mescapital has changed model because it is reaching their goal of departure I think to propose a test financing without any Price Pe R Month and a good Means and attracts more trader and after that the trader has to pass the test and that is profitable and deduct in the payment invoice .

Thanks for the post! We always appreciate feedback from our users and take your suggestions very seriously. Trade Well.

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  #970 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
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I'm still trying to find out what the true value of TST is for a trader.

I'm a scalper, a real scalper, no charts, just T/S and a few DOMs. Most of the guest and even everyday host in the radio chat never have any info that relates to how I trade. Even last week one of the best speakers I've heard during their show was a lady who was more of a swing trader, a style you can't really use with TST.

As far as getting funded-- Saving $30 bucks for 100 days puts you in the same position as the scaling plan on the low and mid level priced combines. My trading has a concrete stop but a movable TP. So the metrics that they look for and help you develop are almost moot.

I do love how they push mindset and development, it is the thing that I live most about TST.

After about 3 months of time off from trading I joined a combine and had a tough time getting back in the groove, I didn't hit the limit but I did make the mistake of trading outside of accepted hours-- I was playing around with TST_Trader and setting up a workspace and made a mistake and opened a trade at night! OOooops. I'm trying to figure out if I should pay the $100 and reset or just wait until next month and pay the $160... I've decided to wait and I'm just demo trading now getting back in the groove because before my 3 month break over the summer I had become really consistent with my trading both profit wise and psychologically.

So I'm still stuck at value-- What do I get from going the TST route vs funding my own small account which is almost the same thing, especially since your profits represent your actual trading size? What is funny is that in the combine you can put on your max contract size but in FTP you are limited--- From day I decided to do the combine based on FTP rules and not attempt to run up an account with a bloated amount of contracts that wouldn't be representative of what I would need to do to get funded...

So back to value! Nice guys, great when it comes to encouragement, mental development, not really the type of advice that I need for the mechanics of my style-- Might represent months of not focusing on live trading and there seems to more upside to trading my own small account.... Another factor, I can't use my preferred platform.... TT but my 2nd fav is available T4.

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  #971 (permalink)
 jackbravo 
SF, CA/USA
 
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In my opinion, the biggest benefit is allowing you to trade what feels like a real account, without you trading your real account and blowing it up. As a beginning trader, the chances of blowing up an account is very high. SIM doesn't provide the real world feel. I think TST does a good job of landing in the middle.

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"It does not matter how slowly you go, as long as you do not stop." Confucius
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  #972 (permalink)
 skfutures 
North vancouver
 
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Does TST drawdown calculated unrealized or realized end of the day? Thank you.

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  #973 (permalink)
 lemons 
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skfutures View Post
Does TST drawdown calculated unrealized or realized end of the day? Thank you.

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Unrealized.

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  #974 (permalink)
 skfutures 
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lemons View Post
Unrealized.

Thanks. Just to clarify, this is a quote from the the website.

"The Trailing Max Drawdown is calculated from your account balance high. So, if you make $500 on the first trading day your account balance will be $50,500 which will make your Trailing Max Drawdown $48,500 ($2,000 from the account balance high). If you were to lose $500 the next day your account balance goes back to $50,000, but your minimum account balance will remain $48,500."

This sounds like realized. They are assuming that the target was filled with limit order. Even then most of the time market has to tick through in order to get filled. From above example, if the market goes up +$700 (unrealized) and came back +$500 (realized) my minimum account balance would be $48,700 not $48,500.

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  #975 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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skfutures View Post
Does TST drawdown calculated unrealized or realized end of the day? Thank you.

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In the Combine, the drawdown is based on the realized end of day balance. You are required to close at the end of day, so there is no unrealized end of day balance -- you can have no open trades after the close.

During the day, you can exceed the trailing max drawdown on either a realized or unrealized basis:


Quoting 
This number is calculated at the end of the trading day in the Trading Combine and Funded Trader Preparation. Which means that at any point during the trading day, you can drop below the minimum account balance, but you must be above it when the day ends.

(Source: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514547-What-is-the-Trailing-Max-Drawdown- )

-----------------

The other loss rule to be aware of is the daily loss limit, which is calculated on an UNrealized basis, so you will be knocked out if your current trade exceeds the limit at any time:


Quoting 
Your Net P&L cannot hit or exceed the Daily Loss Limit at any point during the trading day (5:00 PM CT-3:10 PM CT). If at any time your Net P&L does exceed this amount for your account, any open trading positions may be flattened, any pending orders may be canceled, and your account may be prevented from placing any new trades until the start of the next trading day (5:00 PM CT). The account automatically becomes ineligible for funding once the Daily Loss Limit is exceeded.
...

The Daily Loss Limit is factored based on each trading day’s Net P&L, which includes simulated commissions, fees, and both unrealized and realized trade P&L values.

(Source: https://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/235514507-What-is-the-Daily-Loss-Limit- )

------------------

You should be aware that the Max Drawdown rule for the funded account is different, and is the same as the daily loss limit:


Quoting 
In the Funded Account, this rule is calculated intraday, which means if the balance falls below the minimum account balance you will be pulled from your trades right away and the rule is considered broken.

Bob.

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  #976 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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skfutures View Post
Thanks. Just to clarify, this is a quote from the the website.

"The Trailing Max Drawdown is calculated from your account balance high. So, if you make $500 on the first trading day your account balance will be $50,500 which will make your Trailing Max Drawdown $48,500 ($2,000 from the account balance high). If you were to lose $500 the next day your account balance goes back to $50,000, but your minimum account balance will remain $48,500."

This sounds like realized. They are assuming that the target was filled with limit order. Even then most of the time market has to tick through in order to get filled. From above example, if the market goes up +$700 (unrealized) and came back +$500 (realized) my minimum account balance would be $48,700 not $48,500.

"Realized" has nothing to do with what type of order is filled. It has to do with whether the trade is open or not. Once you are filled, you have an unrealized profit or loss until you close the trade, at which time your P/L is realized.

Your account balance for the max drawdown is your realized balance at end of day, when all trades have been closed.

Bob.

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emini2000
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jackbravo View Post
In my opinion, the biggest benefit is allowing you to trade what feels like a real account, without you trading your real account and blowing it up. As a beginning trader, the chances of blowing up an account is very high. SIM doesn't provide the real world feel. I think TST does a good job of landing in the middle.

Except the emotions of having real monty on the line. No sim can ever totally duplicate that. But you do have some emotion from TST because you are trying to pass the combine.

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  #978 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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I got a PM from @skfutures with an excellent question. Basically, it is not clear from what I could find on the website whether, in the funded account, the new trailing max drawdown itself is computed the same way as in the Combine -- based on closing balance -- or on the high point reached during the day, realized or not.

So if his high point was +900, but he ended up at +700, which amount would be used, in the funded account, to calculate his new trailing max drawdown? Also, if the +900 was unrealized, would it be used, or would they use the highest realized balance?

I don't know, and it would be important to know, obviously.

I'm quoting from my reply to him, so the question will be out in the public space of the forum for others to see, and perhaps answer:


Quoting 
With TST, I know that when I was doing a Combine, I could exceed the trailing max drawdown during the day, whether in an open trade (unrealized) or after closing a trade (realized). But at the end of the day, my closing balance for that day could not violate the trailing max drawdown, and they also recomputed the new trailing max drawdown using the final, realized P/L for the day.

So, in your example, in the Combine, if you ended up +700 at the end of the day, your max trailing drawdown would be up +700, not +900. But I am not sure how it would be done in the funded account. That question is not directly addressed in the quote I posted from the website, although it does seem as if the entire rule is based on intraday, and unrealized, balance:


Quoting 
In the Funded Account, this rule is calculated intraday, which means if the balance falls below the minimum account balance you will be pulled from your trades right away and the rule is considered broken.

In all these cases, when you're not clear, I think it is best to send their support an email. They get back quickly and have always cleared up any questions I have had.

It's also the official word, and not an opinion that some guy on the forum has.

Perhaps @TopstepTrader could clarify this for us.

Bob.

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  #979 (permalink)
k7ler
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eurex product was available in tst ??? if not why !!

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 DRock306 
Saskatchewan
 
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bobwest View Post
I got a PM from @skfutures with an excellent question. Basically, it is not clear from what I could find on the website whether, in the funded account, the new trailing max drawdown itself is computed the same way as in the Combine -- based on closing balance -- or on the high point reached during the day, realized or not.

So if his high point was +900, but he ended up at +700, which amount would be used, in the funded account, to calculate his new trailing max drawdown? Also, if the +900 was unrealized, would it be used, or would they use the highest realized balance?

I don't know, and it would be important to know, obviously.

I'm quoting from my reply to him, so the question will be out in the public space of the forum for others to see, and perhaps answer:



Perhaps @TopstepTrader could clarify this for us.

Bob.

As a recent funded trader i can tell you it calculates it from ur account high at the end of the day/close not your account high during the day.
So if you were up $1000 during the day and by the time the markets closed you were only at $700 then they would only use that $700 in there calculations not the $1000.
Hope that helps

Thank you to everyone who helped me in my journal contest it all ment alot.
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  #981 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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DRock306 View Post
As a recent funded trader i can tell you it calculates it from ur account high at the end of the day/close not your account high during the day.
So if you were up $1000 during the day and by the time the markets closed you were only at $700 then they would only use that $700 in there calculations not the $1000.
Hope that helps

Perfect.

Bob.

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  #982 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
I got a PM from @skfutures with an excellent question. Basically, it is not clear from what I could find on the website whether, in the funded account, the new trailing max drawdown itself is computed the same way as in the Combine -- based on closing balance -- or on the high point reached during the day, realized or not.

So if his high point was +900, but he ended up at +700, which amount would be used, in the funded account, to calculate his new trailing max drawdown? Also, if the +900 was unrealized, would it be used, or would they use the highest realized balance?

I don't know, and it would be important to know, obviously.

I'm quoting from my reply to him, so the question will be out in the public space of the forum for others to see, and perhaps answer:



Perhaps @TopstepTrader could clarify this for us.

Bob.


Bob - thanks for the question and thanks for the kind words about Trader Support.

In a Funded Account, the trailing max drawdown is still calculated based off of the end of day balance of your high water mark (realized P&L at the end of day). However, if you hit that number intraday, you will be closed out of the account.

As you mention to @skfutures, this is different than in a Trading Combine and Funded Trader Preparation, where if you hit the Trailing Drawdown intraday, you have until the end of the day to get back above that water mark - as long as you haven't hit your Daily Loss Limit.

As an example, let's say on Day 1 in a Funded Account, you gain $1,500 on one trade and then lose $1,500 on the second trade - for a net P&L of $0. Your Trailing Max Drawdown would not have moved from its original location (-$2,000 in a $50K account, -$3,000 with a $100K account, etc.).

If on Day 1, you make $1,500 by the close of day, your Trailing Max Drawdown would move to -$500 in a 50K account. If at any point thereafter, your account balance hits -$500 including unrealized P&L, you will be closed out of the trade and your Funded Account will be closed.

In a Trading Combine or FTP, you could theoretically hit -$600 or more intraday and then bounce back by the end of the day to maintain your eligibility for a Funded Account.

To summarize: the Trailing Max Drawdown is only calculated on an account's end of day balance in all of our accounts. However, in a Funded Account, if your loss exceeds that level intraday, we will close out the account as an added risk measure.

Hope that helps and feel free to tag us or contact Trader Support if you have any questions.

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  #983 (permalink)
k7ler
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I would like to know more information about eurex echange trading dax fgbl bobl ftx are available, if not why thanx

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  #984 (permalink)
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k7ler View Post
I would like to know more information about eurex echange trading dax fgbl bobl ftx are available, if not why thanx

Hi k7ler, thanks for the question. We are unable to receive simulated data for Eurex products, those are only available on a live account.

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  #985 (permalink)
k7ler
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TopstepTrader View Post
Hi k7ler, thanks for the question. We are unable to receive simulated data for Eurex products, those are only available on a live account.



I understand why benefit some product has other Eurex and more liquid and volatile and more volume than the ES or YM or NQ mainly season London and Frankfurt and in addition know more volume walking, I find it unfair that you integrate not flowing data Eurex Product on Sim I would like to know a reason thank you

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  #986 (permalink)
k7ler
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Posts: 46 since Aug 2015
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I do not understand the reason why you prefer products to certainly for example the product EUREx are very liquid and a lot of volume usually know of very volatile product I prefer to see product in simulation I understand the reason That they are not available I think it is necessary to add them

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  #987 (permalink)
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k7ler View Post
I do not understand the reason why you prefer products to certainly for example the product EUREx are very liquid and a lot of volume usually know of very volatile product I prefer to see product in simulation I understand the reason That they are not available I think it is necessary to add them

Hi k7ler. Thanks for your posts. We currently do not have access to give EUREX data in SIM accounts. It's not that we don't want to, but we can't. We don't have the connection. This is something we hope to look into in the future, but it's not on our current road map. As a reminder, you can trade EUREX in the Funded Account.

We appreciate your feedback and take user feedback very seriously. It's what helps us stay innovative and give our users a great experience. Hope this helps give a little more clarity on your question.

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  #988 (permalink)
 SawDr 
Washington, DC
 
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Topstep recently increased their profit target requirements in combines and FTP (a 33% increase in the 30k accounts) due to the increase in market volatility. Volatility goes both ways - why increase profit targets and not max loss?
I know you can do whatever you want since you own the business, but this just doesn't make sense.

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 rintin2x 
salt lake utah
 
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SawDr View Post
Topstep recently increased their profit target requirements in combines and FTP (a 33% increase in the 30k accounts) due to the increase in market volatility. Volatility goes both ways - why increase profit targets and not max loss?
I know you can do whatever you want since you own the business, but this just doesn't make sense.

Is it written in their site because of volatility? I was checking them out too lately and I noticed the profit target moved from 1.5k to 2k. Not sure about other account?

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  #990 (permalink)
 SawDr 
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rintin2x View Post
Is it written in their site because of volatility? I was checking them out too lately and I noticed the profit target moved from 1.5k to 2k. Not sure about other account?

They cited volatility as the reason in an email dated March 27th. No explanation as to why the max loss was not changed.

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  #991 (permalink)
 rintin2x 
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SawDr View Post
They cited volatility as the reason in an email dated March 27th. No explanation as to why the max loss was not changed.

I have to agree with you one this case.

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  #992 (permalink)
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SawDr View Post
Topstep recently increased their profit target requirements in combines and FTP (a 33% increase in the 30k accounts) due to the increase in market volatility. Volatility goes both ways - why increase profit targets and not max loss?
I know you can do whatever you want since you own the business, but this just doesn't make sense.


rintin2x View Post
Is it written in their site because of volatility? I was checking them out too lately and I noticed the profit target moved from 1.5k to 2k. Not sure about other account?


SawDr View Post
They cited volatility as the reason in an email dated March 27th. No explanation as to why the max loss was not changed.


rintin2x View Post
I have to agree with you one this case.

Thanks @SawDr and @rintin2x for the questions. Our goal is always to make the Trading Combine a fair test of a traders' ability to consistently profit. Consistently is the key.

As you may know, in January, we moved our profit targets lower from where they were in 2017 - a response to the market environment at that time. (Basically, markets were like watching paint dry.) Even though we lowered our profit targets, we did not tighten the Trailing Maximum Drawdown in the accounts.

Then February happened. The VIX tripled. Volatility was back - and in a big way. Instead of being reactionary, we waited to see if it was temporary. Since then, the VIX has come down, but is still double where it was when we lowered our profit targets.

(Just today, there's been a 30 point range in the S&P 500. That's a $1,500 move on a 1-lot.)

With that volatility, we thought it best to move the program back to where it was in 2017 and increase the $30K Trading Combine profit target by $500. Since the Trailing Maximum Drawdown didn't change with the January adjustment, we didn't adjust it on this side either.

We take feedback very seriously and have adjusted our program many times over the years as the result of trader feedback. As the market environment changes, we'll continue to tweak the program to make sure that we can identify and find profitable traders to fund with our capital.

We hope this provides more clarity, trade well.

If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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 rintin2x 
salt lake utah
 
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@TopstepTrader always thought $1.5k profit target for 30k account, might haven’t traded that long to know the history, thanks for writing back.

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 SawDr 
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@TopstepTrader always thought $1.5k profit target for 30k account, might haven’t traded that long to know the history, thanks for writing back.

Can't say I remember a $2k target on the 30k account

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 SawDr 
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With that volatility, we thought it best to move the program back to where it was in 2017 and increase the $30K Trading Combine profit target by $500. Since the Trailing Maximum Drawdown didn't change with the January adjustment, we didn't adjust it on this side either.

So you are saying that in 2017 the 30k combine target was $2000? I'm not seeing that in my records...looks like it was always $1500 until now.

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With that volatility, we thought it best to move the program back to where it was in 2017 and increase the $30K Trading Combine profit target by $500. Since the Trailing Maximum Drawdown didn't change with the January adjustment, we didn't adjust it on this side either.

So you are saying that in 2017 the 30k combine target was $2000? I'm not seeing that in my records...looks like it was always $1500 until now.

Hi @SawDr. Thanks for the question. The larger accounts were moved back to where they were in 2017, and the $30k account was increased by $500 as we mentioned in our last post.

Please let us know if we can answer any other questions.

If you have any questions about our products or services at Topstep (formerly TopstepTrader), please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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theasianwolf
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Will sign up the account soon.. it seems legit..


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

Happy Anniversary to @TopstepTrader! To celebrate, futures io sent them cake & cupcakes

We hope they enjoyed them!



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 RDK91 
Antwerp
 
 
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How are things going with the coaches combine?
Seems like the last trade was a few months ago and everything has been silent since then.

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