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No BS Day Trading www.nobsdaytrading.com

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  #101 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,540 since Aug 2009
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KelvinKing View Post
This course as well as the Futex Price Ladder course have helped me tremendously in my understanding of reading order flow as well as acquiring that elusive "feel" of the market that everyone is trying to achieve. When I get into a trade, I know with a 2 -3 tick certainty (sometimes even 1) if I'm right or wrong. To me, that is huge. It's very common for me to have 6 to 8 (!!!) losers in a row, but even then, all I need is 1 good trade to make that all back plus some. So by having the ability to know to cut a trade as early as 1 tick, and to know when to pile on for a 30 tick winner, I think that is where the true edge lies in being able to read the ladder.

As a side note, I would also like to add that this type of price action trading is very different from footprint charts. People who have spent all their time looking at footprint or delta charts probably think it's the same thing, but I can tell you from my own personal experience as someone who switched from footprint to ladder that it's really night and day. When I see all these people trade with footprint charts, they still have to use those arbitrary 8 - 12 tick stops. So to me, that tells me they still don't know what they are looking for.

Cheers!

congratulations!! to know with a 1 tick certainty if you're right or wrong is truly an amazing edge.

even more so knowing that the price ladder (especially inside bid/ask) is very often just an approximation at best. if I'm not mistaken, the exchange is sending 2 different feeds. 1 for executed trades and 1 for bid/ask (what you see on your dom). often those feeds can't keep up with each other. a good example is when you see trades above or below ask and bid. or in between of course. the only dom that shows correct data is the one at the exchange.

me personally, I prefer to go with the facts. like the executed trades on a footprint chart. also I certainly don't need an arbitrary 8-12 tick stop to know if I'm right or wrong.

of course this is just imho, and like always, to each his own

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  #102 (permalink)
Madrid - Spain
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
ignacio90's Avatar
 
Posts: 146 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 650 given, 179 received


KelvinKing View Post
This course as well as the Futex Price Ladder course have helped me tremendously in my understanding of reading order flow as well as acquiring that elusive "feel" of the market that everyone is trying to achieve. When I get into a trade, I know with a 2 -3 tick certainty (sometimes even 1) if I'm right or wrong. To me, that is huge. It's very common for me to have 6 to 8 (!!!) losers in a row, but even then, all I need is 1 good trade to make that all back plus some. So by having the ability to know to cut a trade as early as 1 tick, and to know when to pile on for a 30 tick winner, I think that is where the true edge lies in being able to read the ladder.

As a side note, I would also like to add that this type of price action trading is very different from footprint charts. People who have spent all their time looking at footprint or delta charts probably think it's the same thing, but I can tell you from my own personal experience as someone who switched from footprint to ladder that it's really night and day. When I see all these people trade with footprint charts, they still have to use those arbitrary 8 - 12 tick stops. So to me, that tells me they still don't know what they are looking for.

Cheers!

I'm a volumeladder (footprint) chart trader and you can use the same stop 2-3 tics than trading with the dom. If you know how to read them, no difference.

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  #103 (permalink)
Europe
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Jigsaw
Broker: Stage5, OEC
Trading: Treasuries
 
arnie's Avatar
 
Posts: 821 since May 2010
Thanks: 722 given, 1,020 received


There's no point saying this is better than that because it all depends how we look at things.

Every order flow tool shows the same thing. The data is the same, how much volume traded or is trading at this exact price.
The DOM add to the reading the limit orders that are in the market and forever changing which for many people is just noise, hence the reason they prefer footprint charts.
Others don't like footprints because it can add too many price points with HVN/LVN for them to follow, hence the reason they prefer the DOM.

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

Knowing in 2 or 3 ticks (or 1 tick) you're wrong in the trade... it all depends of the market you're trading.
US treasuries, for sure, slow market, ZN can create very defined areas/steps in the profile that you can use a 2 to 3 tick confirmation area because that is the way that market trades.
But in other markets, such ES or even worse, CL, a 2 to 3 tick range for an area of confirmation is suicide because they are fast markets and can easily run 4 or more ticks in a single blow.

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
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  #104 (permalink)
Madrid - Spain
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Trading: ES
 
ignacio90's Avatar
 
Posts: 146 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 650 given, 179 received


arnie View Post
There's no point saying this is better than that because it all depends how we look at things.

Every order flow tool shows the same thing. The data is the same, how much volume traded or is trading at this exact price.
The DOM add to the reading the limit orders that are in the market and forever changing which for many people is just noise, hence the reason they prefer footprint charts.
Others don't like footprints because it can add too many price points with HVN/LVN for them to follow, hence the reason they prefer the DOM.

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

Knowing in 2 or 3 ticks (or 1 tick) you're wrong in the trade... it all depends of the market you're trading.
US treasuries, for sure, slow market, ZN can create very defined areas/steps in the profile that you can use a 2 to 3 tick confirmation area because that is the way that market trades.
But in other markets, such ES or even worse, CL, a 2 to 3 tick range for an area of confirmation is suicide because they are fast markets and can easily run 4 or more ticks in a single blow.

Agree with you, this is why I use a footprint chart with Dom information. Both systems are really good tools to take professional decisions. There are good tools out there, that can help to see what John's course teaches.


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  #105 (permalink)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker: Continuum
Trading: ZN, ES
 
spideysteve's Avatar
 
Posts: 144 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 350 given, 156 received


arnie View Post

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

In the intermediate course he does have trades from TT which he used to use prior to switching to Jigsaw. Personally I found XTrader much more difficult to follow. The split prints on Jigsaw are much easier to follow and give a better sense of market direction.

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  #106 (permalink)
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received

Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #107 (permalink)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker: Continuum
Trading: ZN, ES
 
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Posts: 144 since Mar 2015
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Heph333 View Post
Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

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Indeed. And Peter says he just could not follow what was going on trying to read the DOM on other platforms such as XTrader, which is why he thought of it.

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  #108 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
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Heph333 View Post
Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

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lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

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  #109 (permalink)
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Silvester17 View Post
lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

Peter @DionysusToast first created Jigsaw Depth&Sales in Excel hooked up to Ninja 7 way back when ...2010.... for himself...later it became what we now see..... he did not know anything about C# back then....

https://futures.io/elite-circle/7307-dionysus-xmas-present-ninjatrader-excel.html

I'm very grateful for Pete. Thanks bro...........

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  #110 (permalink)
Legendary  Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Bangkok
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker: AMP, S5, IB
Trading: ES
 
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Silvester17 View Post
lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

Nope - 9g DOM came way after Jigsaw....

Jigsaw wouldn't exist if someone else already had it!

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