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No BS Day Trading www.nobsdaytrading.com
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No BS Day Trading www.nobsdaytrading.com

  #101 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
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Favorite Futures: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,330 since Aug 2009
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KelvinKing View Post
This course as well as the Futex Price Ladder course have helped me tremendously in my understanding of reading order flow as well as acquiring that elusive "feel" of the market that everyone is trying to achieve. When I get into a trade, I know with a 2 -3 tick certainty (sometimes even 1) if I'm right or wrong. To me, that is huge. It's very common for me to have 6 to 8 (!!!) losers in a row, but even then, all I need is 1 good trade to make that all back plus some. So by having the ability to know to cut a trade as early as 1 tick, and to know when to pile on for a 30 tick winner, I think that is where the true edge lies in being able to read the ladder.

As a side note, I would also like to add that this type of price action trading is very different from footprint charts. People who have spent all their time looking at footprint or delta charts probably think it's the same thing, but I can tell you from my own personal experience as someone who switched from footprint to ladder that it's really night and day. When I see all these people trade with footprint charts, they still have to use those arbitrary 8 - 12 tick stops. So to me, that tells me they still don't know what they are looking for.

Cheers!

congratulations!! to know with a 1 tick certainty if you're right or wrong is truly an amazing edge.

even more so knowing that the price ladder (especially inside bid/ask) is very often just an approximation at best. if I'm not mistaken, the exchange is sending 2 different feeds. 1 for executed trades and 1 for bid/ask (what you see on your dom). often those feeds can't keep up with each other. a good example is when you see trades above or below ask and bid. or in between of course. the only dom that shows correct data is the one at the exchange.

me personally, I prefer to go with the facts. like the executed trades on a footprint chart. also I certainly don't need an arbitrary 8-12 tick stop to know if I'm right or wrong.

of course this is just imho, and like always, to each his own

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  #102 (permalink)
Elite Member
Madrid - Spain
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
ignacio90's Avatar
 
Posts: 119 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 588 given, 147 received


KelvinKing View Post
This course as well as the Futex Price Ladder course have helped me tremendously in my understanding of reading order flow as well as acquiring that elusive "feel" of the market that everyone is trying to achieve. When I get into a trade, I know with a 2 -3 tick certainty (sometimes even 1) if I'm right or wrong. To me, that is huge. It's very common for me to have 6 to 8 (!!!) losers in a row, but even then, all I need is 1 good trade to make that all back plus some. So by having the ability to know to cut a trade as early as 1 tick, and to know when to pile on for a 30 tick winner, I think that is where the true edge lies in being able to read the ladder.

As a side note, I would also like to add that this type of price action trading is very different from footprint charts. People who have spent all their time looking at footprint or delta charts probably think it's the same thing, but I can tell you from my own personal experience as someone who switched from footprint to ladder that it's really night and day. When I see all these people trade with footprint charts, they still have to use those arbitrary 8 - 12 tick stops. So to me, that tells me they still don't know what they are looking for.

Cheers!

I'm a volumeladder (footprint) chart trader and you can use the same stop 2-3 tics than trading with the dom. If you know how to read them, no difference.

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  #103 (permalink)
in a meditative state...
Portugal
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Jigsaw
Broker/Data: Stage5, OEC
Favorite Futures: Treasuries
 
arnie's Avatar
 
Posts: 801 since May 2010
Thanks: 709 given, 976 received


There's no point saying this is better than that because it all depends how we look at things.

Every order flow tool shows the same thing. The data is the same, how much volume traded or is trading at this exact price.
The DOM add to the reading the limit orders that are in the market and forever changing which for many people is just noise, hence the reason they prefer footprint charts.
Others don't like footprints because it can add too many price points with HVN/LVN for them to follow, hence the reason they prefer the DOM.

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

Knowing in 2 or 3 ticks (or 1 tick) you're wrong in the trade... it all depends of the market you're trading.
US treasuries, for sure, slow market, ZN can create very defined areas/steps in the profile that you can use a 2 to 3 tick confirmation area because that is the way that market trades.
But in other markets, such ES or even worse, CL, a 2 to 3 tick range for an area of confirmation is suicide because they are fast markets and can easily run 4 or more ticks in a single blow.

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die

Last edited by arnie; April 2nd, 2017 at 11:48 AM.
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  #104 (permalink)
Elite Member
Madrid - Spain
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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Posts: 119 since Mar 2012
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arnie View Post
There's no point saying this is better than that because it all depends how we look at things.

Every order flow tool shows the same thing. The data is the same, how much volume traded or is trading at this exact price.
The DOM add to the reading the limit orders that are in the market and forever changing which for many people is just noise, hence the reason they prefer footprint charts.
Others don't like footprints because it can add too many price points with HVN/LVN for them to follow, hence the reason they prefer the DOM.

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

Knowing in 2 or 3 ticks (or 1 tick) you're wrong in the trade... it all depends of the market you're trading.
US treasuries, for sure, slow market, ZN can create very defined areas/steps in the profile that you can use a 2 to 3 tick confirmation area because that is the way that market trades.
But in other markets, such ES or even worse, CL, a 2 to 3 tick range for an area of confirmation is suicide because they are fast markets and can easily run 4 or more ticks in a single blow.

Agree with you, this is why I use a footprint chart with Dom information. Both systems are really good tools to take professional decisions. There are good tools out there, that can help to see what John's course teaches.

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  #105 (permalink)
Elite Member
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker/Data: Continuum
Favorite Futures: ZB, ZN
 
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Posts: 103 since Mar 2015
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arnie View Post

When talking about John's course and DOM trading we need to take notice that we're talking about Jigsaw tools and not a Ninja alike DOM.
We can say that a Jigsaw DOM is capable of giving us footprint information, something that a standard DOM can't.

They are similar tools, showing the same thing but in different ways.

In the intermediate course he does have trades from TT which he used to use prior to switching to Jigsaw. Personally I found XTrader much more difficult to follow. The split prints on Jigsaw are much easier to follow and give a better sense of market direction.

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  #106 (permalink)
Get In, Get Out, Get Paid
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP CQG
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB
 
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Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #107 (permalink)
Elite Member
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Heph333 View Post
Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Indeed. And Peter says he just could not follow what was going on trying to read the DOM on other platforms such as XTrader, which is why he thought of it.

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  #108 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
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Heph333 View Post
Jigsaw is genius, but simple. Gotta wonder why nobody ever thought to combine the dom with the tape before.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

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  #109 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Silvester17 View Post
lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

Peter @DionysusToast first created Jigsaw Depth&Sales in Excel hooked up to Ninja 7 way back when ...2010.... for himself...later it became what we now see..... he did not know anything about C# back then....

https://futures.io/elite-circle/7307-dionysus-xmas-present-ninjatrader-excel.html

I'm very grateful for Pete. Thanks bro...........

Ron

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #110 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Silvester17 View Post
lol. the 9g dom had that way before jigsaw. (unfortunately 9g is not available anymore)

Nope - 9g DOM came way after Jigsaw....

Jigsaw wouldn't exist if someone else already had it!

If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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