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Futures Training Program "OpenTrader" www.opentrader.com review


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Futures Training Program "OpenTrader" www.opentrader.com review

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  #101 (permalink)
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jeffmum View Post
I am going to sign up for their training. Here's what I like:

1) They have a $397.00 per month (total six months) option.

2) A 60 day money back gaurentee.

3) Both Awais and Ziad are traders.

4) I emailed them and asked for references. Despite the fact they have their 60 day money back gaurentee, they provided me with two references from two traders who took their training.

many other education/trading program charge in the $3,000 range upfront with no money back guarantee.

I will report back in a few months.

@jeffmum Any follow-up on this post? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks in advance.

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  #102 (permalink)
Vienna, Virginia, USA
 
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These guys completely turned my trading around! I still have the notebook with the materials in it and if you'd like to buy it, just message me. Its totally a "used textbook" with notes written in the margins but it contains all the lessons from the program.

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  #103 (permalink)
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I see from their site that they now charge $6,000 for their course. From reading this thread, sounds like they were less than half this price not too long ago. Talk about inflation!

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  #104 (permalink)
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BeachTrader View Post
I see from their site that they now charge $6,000 for their course. From reading this thread, sounds like they were less than half this price not too long ago. Talk about inflation!

If you attend their webinar(which lately they and their affiliates have been advertising heavily) the price will be around 1/2 off probably.

When I checked them out the training was 5000 but i only paid 2000 for the training.

I have mixed feelings about it

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  #105 (permalink)
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jeffmum View Post
I am going to sign up for their training.

I will report back in a few months.

Jeff,

Did you go through with this? How was it?

Thanks,
Todd

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  #106 (permalink)
Corvallis, OR
 
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RickW00716 View Post
I have mixed feelings about it

Rick,

Can you be more specific about your "mixed feeling?" How deep did you go, what do you like/dislike?

Thanks,
Todd

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  #107 (permalink)
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EverydayTrader View Post
Rick,

Can you be more specific about your "mixed feeling?" How deep did you go, what do you like/dislike?

Thanks,
Todd

Course not detailed enough when it comes to entries in my opinion

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  #108 (permalink)
Paris, France
 
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RickW00716 View Post
Course not detailed enough when it comes to entries in my opinion

That is the key because in hindsight the EMP zones always work. Sometimes it requires getting in early ahead of the zones, sometimes it requires waiting to enter in the middle of the zone, sometimes it requires a > 4 pt stop. And that is all discretionary, so that in hindsight there is always a simple explanation that would have resulted in catching the high or low of the day and getting a big winning trade.

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  #109 (permalink)
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cunparis View Post
That is the key because in hindsight the EMP zones always work. Sometimes it requires getting in early ahead of the zones, sometimes it requires waiting to enter in the middle of the zone, sometimes it requires a > 4 pt stop. And that is all discretionary, so that in hindsight there is always a simple explanation that would have resulted in catching the high or low of the day and getting a big winning trade.

Ah someone who has actually spent sometime in the mkt ! Well said cunparis.

drawing lines, "special" volume nodes it's all predictive BS ....It's how the average "think"

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  #110 (permalink)
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Itsjustamarket View Post
Ah someone who has actually spent sometime in the mkt ! Well said cunparis.

drawing lines, "special" volume nodes it's all predictive BS ....It's how the average "think"

Sorry but I have to disagree with this part. Finding potential areas of support and resistance is very important to my trading. The problem is that it's not enough. And that's why FT71 & EMP can disclose this info and keep secret the rest.

FT71 uses "order flow" to time entries and have low risk. He does this by reading the DOM and making really quick decisions real time. I don't know how EMP does this because he never tells. But just entering your order at the EMP zones is not enough to make money IMHO. One needs something else.

In my case I use order flow to time my entries and get low risk. I have developed my own indicators to track the order flow and find areas of support or resistance real time. When those line up with the big picture context and the potential S/R zones identified during my daily homework (similar to EMP's zones or FT71's composite levels) then I take the trade. IMHO timing the entry to have a very low risk is the key to the whole thing and that's the very part that no one, including myself, is willing to share. And for this reason I don't recommend any training programs (except FT71's inexpensive webinars which are excellent). The training will only take you so far and then leave you hanging. And with FT71's webinars being very affordable (and profits go to charity) there is no reason to spend thousands of dollars on essentially the same thing.

Think about it if a trader can make unlimited money in the markets, it would be stupid to share his entire method to everyone else, because it would increase the chances that it wouldn't work any more. So the best is to keep quiet about it and trade away. This is why all the training programs either teach you something that don't work, something that used to work but no longer does, or they teach you just a small part of the method and keep the crucial part secret.

I hope all that makes sense. Everyone may not agree but that's my experience. I've been duped so I like to warn others.

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  #111 (permalink)
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Here they discuss the entries which are just entering at the levels.

Waiting for "Confirmation" Before Entering a Trade


cunparis View Post
Sorry but I have to disagree with this part. Finding potential areas of support and resistance is very important to my trading. The problem is that it's not enough. And that's why FT71 & EMP can disclose this info and keep secret the rest.

FT71 uses "order flow" to time entries and have low risk. He does this by reading the DOM and making really quick decisions real time. I don't know how EMP does this because he never tells. But just entering your order at the EMP zones is not enough to make money IMHO. One needs something else.

In my case I use order flow to time my entries and get low risk. I have developed my own indicators to track the order flow and find areas of support or resistance real time. When those line up with the big picture context and the potential S/R zones identified during my daily homework (similar to EMP's zones or FT71's composite levels) then I take the trade. IMHO timing the entry to have a very low risk is the key to the whole thing and that's the very part that no one, including myself, is willing to share. And for this reason I don't recommend any training programs (except FT71's inexpensive webinars which are excellent). The training will only take you so far and then leave you hanging. And with FT71's webinars being very affordable (and profits go to charity) there is no reason to spend thousands of dollars on essentially the same thing.

Think about it if a trader can make unlimited money in the markets, it would be stupid to share his entire method to everyone else, because it would increase the chances that it wouldn't work any more. So the best is to keep quiet about it and trade away. This is why all the training programs either teach you something that don't work, something that used to work but no longer does, or they teach you just a small part of the method and keep the crucial part secret.

I hope all that makes sense. Everyone may not agree but that's my experience. I've been duped so I like to warn others.


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  #112 (permalink)
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Cun Paris ............there is no secret ..........and in reply to the rest of the BS.

"No author should be considered as having failed until he starts teaching others about writing" Taleb

The two people that actually proved they were making money on the original open trader site..... where are they ? trading.... not teaching

go figure !!

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  #113 (permalink)
NYC + NY / USA
 
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jeffmum View Post
I am going to sign up for their training. Here's what I like:

1) They have a $397.00 per month (total six months) option.

2) A 60 day money back gaurentee.

3) Both Awais and Ziad are traders.

4) I emailed them and asked for references. Despite the fact they have their 60 day money back gaurentee, they provided me with two references from two traders who took their training.

many other education/trading program charge in the $3,000 range upfront with no money back guarantee.

I will report back in a few months.

current pricing are in the $597 monthly range for the six month period, and almost $2,000 as a one-time payment

either way to sunday, the reviews on these guys are some of the best that I have ever seen.


ok, so like, its almost over one year since this thread started, can others start sharing or posting their results or impressions?

there is another falicy that is often shared on the markets and trading, and it goes something like, if I talk, share or discuss my "so called" edge, then it will dull and loosen and no longer apply in the markets. The reality is self delusion. The upside is making new trading buddies and trading friends that you can share your profits by taking a trip/ cruise/ or some other Las Vegas junket with. The downside is a closed fist picks up no pennies. After all, futures.io (formerly BMT) is founded on the principle of sharing...

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  #114 (permalink)
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dk27 View Post
Here they discuss the entries which are just entering at the levels.

Waiting for "Confirmation" Before Entering a Trade

Have you seen anyone doing this successfully?

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  #115 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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cunparis View Post
Have you seen anyone doing this successfully?

Forex Trading Strategy and Live Trading Room - Supply and Demand Forex Trading Strategy

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  #116 (permalink)
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Quoting 
there is another falicy that is often shared on the markets and trading, and it goes something like, if I talk, share or discuss my "so called" edge, then it will dull and loosen and no longer apply in the markets. The reality is self delusion. The upside is making new trading buddies and trading friends that you can share your profits by taking a trip/ cruise/ or some other Las Vegas junket with. The downside is a closed fist picks up no pennies. After all, futures.io (formerly BMT) is founded on the principle of sharing...

It depends.. if one has a very precise timing method to enter at an exactly price and time, then it can be problematic especially in markets that are not very liquid. Imagine one has such a thing for crude and they post it here and 50 people put in their order exactly at the same time? What's going to happen? Slippage for one and slippage is enough to kill a strategy. And then there can be an adverse effect (stop running, inventory grab, etc.).

So I don't agree that telling the world about a successful setup is a good idea.

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  #117 (permalink)
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I was talking about EMP.

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  #118 (permalink)
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No and it didn't work for me either but these guys seriously talking about it.


cunparis View Post
Have you seen anyone doing this successfully?


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  #119 (permalink)
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I am presently doing Opentrader course . So far I am finding it very good and am learning plenty. I have traded Australian shares and forex mostly. Pleased to move away forex, could never get consistant with it. So moving into Stock Indices is exciting.

In regards to the course the content is very good and getting better. Having viewed Ziads actual live trade results over several yrs I am dismayed at all the negative reviews from people that haven't done the course. When first reading these reviews I was just blown away and even had the thought I was scammed AGAIN purchasing this course. However, thats not the case with Opentrader course. I feel confident in time it will give me the necessary skills to succeed in trading.

The few problems I have encountered are living in New Zealand and getting the Market Delta platform running with data, this has been total frustration. Due to timezone and contacting support. Seems if you are setting up a demo account support is not that interested. But that should not reflect on the course itself. In regards to the course content weekly webinar training session the illustrations in the course are different to the platform Awais use's on the webinar. No biggy just throws you a bit when you first see it happening.

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  #120 (permalink)
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cunparis View Post
In April OpenTrader sent out this email:



I was really interested because we would all get to see just how successful they are. But they never followed through. So much for transparency. After this I lost all interest in them.

We can debate whether they really make money or not but there is no proof and so it's a bit pointless to debate it (although some may consider it entertaining, but I'd consider it a waste of time).

Personally my rule is this: I only listen to people who have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're really trading and really making money. Only a few people have qualified. And those are the ones I listen to. The rest I ignore because I simply don't have time for it. I find I do much better this way.

I will say Awais is very good at his homework, making levels, and analyzing the context of the market. I've seen him make some amazing calls, like warning of a big sell-off a day before it happens, etc. It's impressive. Is this enough for him to make money trading? I don't know. I haven't seen proof that he has and so unfortunately he falls into the group that I ignore.

I have seen the results and they are very good. Not exceptional to the point of unbelievable, but rather solid consistent returns. There is no benefit for me in giving a positive review, in fact the more people subscribing to the course is less benefit.

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  #121 (permalink)
London, UK
 
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Someone might give good/proper/consistent training.They can be very succesfull and people who follow the training might or might not be. I really can't see why the fact that someone makes $$ is a garantee that someone else will. The real point is to know if what is being taught is quality or not, and will be suitable to you.

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  #122 (permalink)
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Opentrader recommends two platforms Market Delta and Sierra Charts. Does anyone here have experience with them? If so, I would appreciate your opinions and reasons why.

Cheers.

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  #123 (permalink)
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GlobalTrader View Post
Opentrader recommends two platforms Market Delta and Sierra Charts. Does anyone here have experience with them? If so, I would appreciate your opinions and reasons why.

Cheers.

They do exactly the same things, Sierra is just about 4 times cheaper. The choice is hard..

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  #124 (permalink)
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dom64 View Post
Someone might give good/proper/consistent training.They can be very succesfull and people who follow the training might or might not be. I really can't see why the fact that someone makes $$ is a garantee that someone else will. The real point is to know if what is being taught is quality or not, and will be suitable to you.

Totally agree. Plus understanding the concepts is of upmost importance.

With Opentrader Ziad and Awais both teach the concepts very well and are not trying to clone traders, but rather give them the tools in order to find and define oneself as a trader.

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  #125 (permalink)
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GlobalTrader View Post
Opentrader recommends two platforms Market Delta and Sierra Charts. Does anyone here have experience with them? If so, I would appreciate your opinions and reasons why.

Cheers.

Post in the appropriate thread, ask platform questions in the platform forum instead of a vendor review thread.

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  #126 (permalink)
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dom64 View Post
They do exactly the same things, Sierra is just about 4 times cheaper. The choice is hard..

Thanks, Will have a closer look at Sierra. Surely if its 4 times cheaper must be some reason. Will have a deeper look.

Thanks Dom.

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  #127 (permalink)
Dallas
 
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If you are looking for a similar indicator close to market deta tpo and footprint chart for ninja the cheapest look alike is final fin-alg software. If you do not want to pay then there are awesome free indicators in futures.io (formerly BMT) with our forum support.

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  #128 (permalink)
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optionzen View Post
If you are looking for a similar indicator close to market deta tpo and footprint chart for ninja the cheapest look alike is final fin-alg software. If you do not want to pay then there are awesome free indicators in futures.io (formerly BMT) with our forum support.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Thanks very much.

Back to the course itself. I think alot of negative reviews are not really justified. I have traded Australian Stock Exchange (ASX) and FX for a number of yrs successfully using a number of different platforms.

MD and Sierra on top of the course can be somewhat daunting and a component of the course people need to be aware of if they don't have experience with these platforms. Plus the fact I am in New Zealand and contacting support has been a hassle. I'm sure i will get it sorted, just taking longer than expected. 20 days and Market Delta still have not given me the correct login detail. And thats after many requests. With all this hassle I have found creating the correct Mind Set part of the course to be very helpful.

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  #129 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

I was contacted by this company and am looking to gather user experiences before moving forward or inviting them on the site. Have any of you used this service or have any experience with them or the owners Ziad Masri or Awais Bokhari?

OpenTrader | Professional Training For Futures Traders

OpenTrader Pro Trading Blog | Trading insights from professional traders

I remember their "We are Traders" video from last year:



If you have direct experience, please share.

Mike

I have been with Open Trader about 7 months. My opinion about the course is that it does have some excellent tutorials if you are new to market profile and market internals. The course is fairly well structured also.

For myself, the lack of support I found in regards to setting up a platform, data etc made me feel that i should not be doing this course. If Open Trader really wanted this course to be something better than others one would think it be in their interest to help aspiring traders get set up correctly. They didn't for me. Finally, I am set-up correctly .

I have to thank FuturesTrader71 and Stage 5 trading for their support and pointing me in the right direction in regards to platforms and data, which they did for free.

Would you pay $2000 or $6000 for the course? You have to answer this question yourself.. I know my answer.

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  #130 (permalink)
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GlobalTrader View Post
I have been with Open Trader about 7 months. My opinion about the course is that it does have some excellent tutorials if you are new to market profile and market internals. The course is fairly well structured also.

For myself, the lack of support I found in regards to setting up a platform, data etc made me feel that i should not be doing this course. If Open Trader really wanted this course to be something better than others one would think it be in their interest to help aspiring traders get set up correctly. They didn't for me. Finally, I am set-up correctly .

I have to thank FuturesTrader71 and Stage 5 trading for their support and pointing me in the right direction in regards to platforms and data, which they did for free.

Would you pay $2000 or $6000 for the course? You have to answer this question yourself.. I know my answer.

I have taken the course and I am also a member of Awais's site 'Eminiplayer.net" The course is very good in my opinion and they do have weekly coaching calls where questions can be answered.

Eminiplayer.net is a great deal! awais's daily trading plan(which includes a video and many support/resistance levels) and his daily recap complement the open trader course very well.

I would recommend this

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  #131 (permalink)
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RickW00716 View Post
I have taken the course and I am also a member of Awais's site 'Eminiplayer.net" The course is very good in my opinion and they do have weekly coaching calls where questions can be answered.

Eminiplayer.net is a great deal! awais's daily trading plan(which includes a video and many support/resistance levels) and his daily recap complement the open trader course very well.

I would recommend this

Don't get me wrong. I like the course. Like i said , my issue has been getting a platform up and running. Myself being a person who likes everything done right the first time, especially when money and trading is concerned its been difficult dealing with so many mixed opinions from Awais in regards to platforms. First he said use Sierra, so i downloaded it and had to pay Sierra figure out why I could,nt get it to work. The template from OpenTrader has an out of date ES contract and would not load. I' don't know these things, as i am new to futures . Then in a recent webinar it was mentioned that the NYSE tick data was n't so great on Sierra and Market Delta, and in the same coaching call he and Ziad said they preferred Tradestation and Esignal for NYSE tick and would only use Tradestation if it had decent market profiles. I did question this, and the last email i was advised use investor/rt with Esignal.


"
In your situation, I think the best setup would be to get Investor/RT from https://www.linnsoft.com/ and then use the eSignal data feed. That'll give you a good platform that supports volume profile along with a reliable data feed that has good NYSE TICK data". Its taking 7 plus weeks to sort this out. I am so over it.



I have never used eminiplayer, yet have heard many great things about it. I don't want to be one of these people who relies on the daily trade plan Awais does for traders. I need to be able to develop my own plan and if it means checking my levels with Awais's levels via Eminiplayer in order to ensure i am creating the same or similar levels, is a good thing. However in the end whats the point in doing at course if you can not draw your own levels and build your own daily trade plan?

No offence to anyone just using Awais's levels. I am not hear to argue, rather just present my experience.

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  #132 (permalink)
Richmond Virginia
 
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GlobalTrader View Post
Don't get me wrong. I like the course. Like i said , my issue has been getting a platform up and running. Myself being a person who likes everything done right the first time, especially when money and trading is concerned its been difficult dealing with so many mixed opinions from Awais in regards to platforms. First he said use Sierra, so i downloaded it and had to pay Sierra figure out why I could,nt get it to work. The template from OpenTrader has an out of date ES contract and would not load. I' don't know these things, as i am new to futures . Then in a recent webinar it was mentioned that the NYSE tick data was n't so great on Sierra and Market Delta, and in the same coaching call he and Ziad said they preferred Tradestation and Esignal for NYSE tick and would only use Tradestation if it had decent market profiles. I did question this, and the last email i was advised use investor/rt with Esignal.


"
In your situation, I think the best setup would be to get Investor/RT from https://www.linnsoft.com/ and then use the eSignal data feed. That'll give you a good platform that supports volume profile along with a reliable data feed that has good NYSE TICK data". Its taking 7 plus weeks to sort this out. I am so over it.



I have never used eminiplayer, yet have heard many great things about it. I don't want to be one of these people who relies on the daily trade plan Awais does for traders. I need to be able to develop my own plan and if it means checking my levels with Awais's levels via Eminiplayer in order to ensure i am creating the same or similar levels, is a good thing. However in the end whats the point in doing at course if you can not draw your own levels and build your own daily trade plan?

No offence to anyone just using Awais's levels. I am not hear to argue, rather just present my experience.

i use ninjatrader charts with the kinetick data feed and my broker is interactive brokers. The TICk feed is close to what tradestations is but what i do to make sure I can see what are extreme readings is plot a 390 period bollinger band on a 1 minute TICK chart with 2 and 3 standard deviations. When the TICK exceeds these levels, I know i am getting an extreme.

I also plot ADD only, I don't worry about the SPAD(I believe Ziad said to concentrate on the ADD).

I draw my own levels also and formulate a plan then compare it with Awais's. if there's something I need clearing up, I ask Awais or I hold my question until the coaching call.

If I can be any help, please let me know

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  #133 (permalink)
Richmond,UK
 
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Unfortunately your not going to learn how to trade by taking a course....

What might be a good idea is to do this course and do the opposite ?

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  #134 (permalink)
Richmond Virginia
 
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Itsjustamarket View Post
Unfortunately your not going to learn how to trade by taking a course....

What might be a good idea is to do this course and do the opposite ?

Its true it takes more than taking a course to know how to trade...There is a HUGE mental/emotional side to trading that has to be overcome.

I stick to my original opinion that this is a worthwhile course because it does cover all aspects of trading including the mental side. Anyone expecting clear "cookie cutter" "one size fits all" types of entries/exits or magic settings of indicators will be disappointed however.

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  #135 (permalink)
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Itsjustamarket View Post
Unfortunately your not going to learn how to trade by taking a course....

What might be a good idea is to do this course and do the opposite ?

Thanks for you advice. But you don't know whether or not , or even how long I have been trading.

Actually I have been trading Australian Stocks/Options, CFDs and FX successfully for many yrs. Its a challenge for to trade the US Futures market successfully and thats why I took the Opentraders course, I needed something to give me a solid bass to start from.

As far as the course goes I still believe its an excellent course. My only bitch was with Awais giving me so much conflicting information in regards to platforms and data. However I do believe it wasn't Awai's intention to confuse me more and he was actually trying to help. It was just a frustrating tricky situation, and after 7 weeks trying to decide on which platform, which data and getting conflicting information I had had enough and posted that frustration here. Was that the best idea I've had recently, probably not.

I contacted FT71 to help me with the charts and setup and am grateful for his support and that of Stage 5. However, that does not take anything away from Opentrader course in itself. Its a very good course and if there is another better out there, show me it?

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  #136 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
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Jedi View Post
LOL.. You're contradicting yourself there buddy.. Why do you feel that way?

RUN-DMC - It's Tricky - YouTube

in 8 years i have never seen a live room ran by a trader that could real trade. vendor are like pinguins birds that can not fly...

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  #137 (permalink)
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forgiven View Post
in 8 years i have never seen a live room ran by a trader that could real trade. vendor are like penguins birds that can not fly...

I would have to agree with you on this. While OpenTrader must present a valuable course based upon reviews here; I have been in more than a few rooms with called entries (every room was a failure except for one! the man was a trader traded live and ended the room because he became a fund manager for a small mutual fund group. . . . darn!)

My only hesitation, if I were even interested in the course, which I am not, is the age old question (which me as about as na´ve as they come) now asks is; "if one is good at trading, why do they need to sell a $1500 course", or whatever the price is? Surely, if you are a success you don't need the headache.

I always said, if I become successful at trading, which I now can proudly say I am! I would share my methodology for free. Problem is, for the type of trader I've become (truly discretionary) it cannot be taught. I remember a vendor once telling me - "if you can't teach your method to a twelve year old then it can't be successful." HOW WRONG!

NOTE - I know this is about the OpenTrader course and not me; yet my point is - "the ONLY one who can truly 'teach' you to trade is you." futures.io (formerly BMT) has an excellent thread about the randomness of the markets and had a webinar featuring Adam Grimes. Head over to it because it is a REAL eye opener. If you don't believe the markets are random try a couple things I did for fun (which both became real educational in the long run).

1.) Take a chart, any chart, do not pay attention to the ups and downs. Scroll back however many days you want. I went back 7 days on a 3 minute chart in the TF and draw random horizontal lines. DO NOT CHEAT - DON'T PAY ATTENTION . . . scroll back as fast as you can. I was utterly amazed at the number of lines I drew (Randomly) which could easily have been interpreted as S/R by a trader.

2.) SIM trade (unless you are bold go live) by the DOM ONLY. Do not look at any charts, just watch direction, pull backs etc. ENTER a trade; then learn to manage - the - trade. This is one aspect NO course really focuses on enough! I was able to make a sizeable amount, three days in a row taking small losses and good moves without charts. Easier said than done, especially if you are new to futures trading. When I went back and looked at the charts I don't believe any of the entries were what I would have taken on a chart! Yet, I made money. Again, it was SIM but I had proven a point to myself. TRADE MAMAGEMENT IS VITAL.

Thanks - I could go on and on with my seven years on morphing into a trader - but that's for another thread in time.

If you DO take the course do not expect it to be your holy grail. Learn what you can from it - seems like valuable info - then work yourself at becoming a trader.

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  #138 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
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i agree ! trade management makes or brakes the trader , not picking out the reference point to work from. most traders do not realize all theses vendors are teaching things that work sometimes. you have to have the skill to tell when the set up is not working and get out ...well befor the stop is hit. and giving the trade some extra room when it is a stronger move. you are talking about reading orderflow,tempo, and larger time frame charts. the key to look for in a room as to the skill of the trader.... look and see if they are opening monthly ,weekly, and daily charts ...for review befor trading starts. if not ( they are just playing trader)

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  #139 (permalink)
Paris, France
 
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mmtrader4 View Post
1.) Take a chart, any chart, do not pay attention to the ups and downs. Scroll back however many days you want. I went back 7 days on a 3 minute chart in the TF and draw random horizontal lines. DO NOT CHEAT - DON'T PAY ATTENTION . . . scroll back as fast as you can. I was utterly amazed at the number of lines I drew (Randomly) which could easily have been interpreted as S/R by a trader.

The outcome you gave (price bounces off random lines) does not prove the market is random.

Look at a volume profile of a month or year of data. if the market was random, you would not see nice neat histogram areas which show that price is attracted to certain prices like a magnet and repelled from others.



For me, my trading is based on identifying where I think price will be attracted and where it will be repelled. This is also what open trader does. It's a valueable skill. However I don't think the open trader class teaches it well, they hold back a lot so that you sign up for the eminiplayer monthly service and/or chat room. They use zones that are 4 pts wide for ES, and consider stopping short of the zone or going slightly past it still a success if price 'bounces' off it. Which means their zones are like 5-6 pts wide. Which in the end it looks like it's working but trading it isn't possible because the R:R isn't there.

So I don't recommend the course, but I disagree the market is random. it's not. and figuring this out is, in my opinion, the key to trading. At least for me.

PS: You can learn it from futurestrader71 a lot cheaper than OpenTrader. Dalton is also good. No need to spend thousands.

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  #140 (permalink)
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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Hi.. guys am writing here as very often i get pinged. I want to be able to respond to anyone looking at this thread rather than a individual ping. This is however not a advice. Let me be clear. Its just a opinion on a public forum.

Hence going to be a lil long. But if you think it has no value...pls ignore. I dont think i can say more than what i said already and what I am penning down....lol

I did like the program. It gave me some good points of reference. But I also evolved. I also do follow few others things one of them being zunaa and stuff with tradepoint. There is no single course which can make someone successful. I treat it as it gave me a blueprint into the markets. Success is only ones work, discipline, managing risk, dedication and luck.

some q's which keep coming:-

has it made me successful live trader?
lol.... no course can make me a live trader. i was live much before i did OT. I made and lost big. the course & the student when in front of the live markets is different. There were thing which OT taught...but that was not the end of my leanings. Yes with discipline which the course teaches..you can cut losses or make it. Well all depends on what you want. but the decision is yours...not the courses. also there is no specific if u do 1), 2), 3) , 4) steps u make money.
Well maybe i am not expressive..... but am certain no course can give u that guarantee if they have been in the markets and know how stuff works. If it says that if u pay x mount....u become a hot shot stud.....run.
Am sure Opentrader does not say that..atleast they did not tell me. OOps how i wish they had. That would have been sweeet a deal.

Do you still think it's a legitimate training program?
Yes. lol...i payed up after it was offered free. I have expressed my thanks to Ziad in my journal. I would'nt have taken his name if OT did not help

Do you still recommend it?
Yes I do. But it also depends what kind of recommendation is being asked for.

For ex:- Imagine someone who has not gone to school/college...& wants to become a Dr.The person asks for reco on a teacher who is teaching and is good at teaching classes to become a Dr.
The teacher is very good. Perhaps the student will pickup some stuff. But however good the Dr is am sure there is big value of someone going from Kindergarden, School, High school, college, Dr. Hope the point is being driven.
Lol...the funny part is even if one went to the best schools & was studying to become a Dr....not every Dr makes the big bucks to buy a ferrari/lambo in 2 yrs. THere are bright kids who do it in a year "the ferrar/lamb"
piece...but there are Dr's who stive to make ends meet. I just did not know how to answer this question. So pls forgive.

Also pls refer to my posts on this thread #39 #44 #47 #56 #59 #74 to see if my comments are consistent.

Even I have evolved...... i did mention in previous posts that i had the program as a Beta customer except the psyco stuff which was in the works then. That meant it was FREE. I thought it had value....per what i knew and what it gave hence payed for the program. Well am a person who pays up and espcially since i thought of revisiting few things.....so my case does not apply. But i do want to revisit the program since it's online...but just not now.....i dont have the time.

But I must say this....what i might have made in the markets or lost in the markets is a freakin pale comparison to the cost of the program. Hence when someone asks for reco.... i am only answering from my state of mind to be very clear. It might not apply to the person who is asking for reco. lol serious. I don't know anything about someone asking a reco. It cannot be general hence this is just my opinion. Also I think OpenTrader gives a money back guarantee..... so if u don't like it...dump it.

If I was in the position i was when i took the program.....i would still take it. ?

If i knew what i know today, would i take it. Well its been a learning process. There have been learning's & hurdles along the way & am sure Opentrader helped me in many ways. But thats just me.

not sure if this helps.....am into many things other than what Opentrader gave me and especially volume/OF..if u see my previous posts on this thread also.
I will probably go back & look at the classes in 6-12 months....& especially the pysco section.

Trading is my passion.....its not about only the money. So i might not be able to comment if a course is worth the money.

I also have met very bright traders and they too have countless hours in front of the screen. It pays to have a friend/mentor is all i can say.

All i can say is course is good......but no course.... can make u a master at this game. It is only upto the Person in the mirror who can make this happen.
If you think paying up whatever the cost of the program is now.....u become a hot shot trader.....sorry may not happen. It's too small a price....i would have taken many such courses if it were a magical pill.

See at the end of all this..... if someone know when the market is liquid....or when it is not....when it is moving from balance to imbalance....can understand this and how and why it is doing.. u can be successful.
lol for me i need to go thru many things...evolve and am still learning.

i would not have posted, as i have already made enough comments on this thread and nothing else for me to say or debate.....but as mentioned i keep getting a mail or so now and then. I think i have said all.... & if you think u need a course...u can try. If you think not....that is great. Great Traders are all self made .

Every persons needs..necessities....expectations are different. Well enough said....not writing a book . all said and done. no more posts here on this thread necessary for me i guess. am not someone who goes back n forth.

cheers n goodluck to all. course or no course

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  #141 (permalink)
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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guys i may still have got pings. I had clearly said what i need to.

I think the course has value. But it all depends on the trader.

This is however my last post here. I will not respond to any other pings.

asking me is a small sample. you might want to ping others who have taken the course or try it yourself if there is a money back guarantee.

also making a parallel post on my journal. if you have a link and are elite maybe you can see it but thats my own reflection.
Nothing to do with OT.

cheers and only the best

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  #142 (permalink)
Melbourne, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
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My two cents worth.

1. I have completed the opentrader course.
2. I've done plenty of other courses too, some of which were BS and some of which were valuable
3. I think the information provided overall is excellent but remember there is no holy grail in trading. At the end of the day if you can master the person in the mirror it does not matter what methodology you use, you will have a good chance.
4. The best parts I got out of this course were the self development aspects and on what areas you should be focussing on to improve your bottom line. The fact that some posters here have been talking about lack of specific details on exact setups seems to miss the point entirely and I won't expand on that further.
5. I personally trade a mix of price action, market profile and order flow. My trading has evolved over time and I hope it will continue to evolve. I am currently using the eminplayer.net monthly service as more of a learning tool and a check of my levels than anything else. I am aware of the randomness of lines as I have done Adam Grimes' course but if you have done the opentrader course you'll be aware Ziad and Awais know about that randomness just as well and do talk about it.

I will not be contributing further to this thread and I will not answer any pings on this topic. I just wanted to state my opinion.

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  #143 (permalink)
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For those that have taken the course and have said they have benefited, it would be useful to know by how much their trading has improved. I can easily say today I feel much better than yesterday, but it is a vague sentiment, and no real meaning can be attached to it.

If you have taken a course and feel it aided your trading, then that should be measurable in the bottom line, some average percentage increase in your earnings should have occurred in the subsequent months (all other things being equal).

Else this thread (and I have read it all) is pretty uninformative to anyone wishing to make a decision on whether to take the course or not. Concepts are fine, but I would imagine no one reading this board is studying to obtain a Masters in trading theory, it is only the $$$ that count in the end.

T

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  #144 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
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josh View Post
Why should being good traders and good marketers mutually exclusive? Can't they be effective at both? I don't think good marketing makes one dishonest or bad at the service being offered.

you have to ask this question...if the person in the room can trade...why would he bother with pain in the ass students ( the answer is simple ... he just teaches trading... he can not trade ... to day trade every day you have to under stand current market conditions... like a air plane pilot....they may be able to fly under clear conditions...but they can not fly on instruments .. it takes 10 years or more with a lot of help to do that. }

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  #145 (permalink)
Irvine + CA/USA
 
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Hello,

For the folks who've taken Ziad's course, how effective is it in teaching how to determine the support and resistance zones to the same level of accuracy as Emini Player's daily levels? That's the primary reason I'm considering this course. I find Awais' levels to be quite accurate, and I'd like to learn to compute them for other markets such as CL and ZB. My understanding is they include about 60 or so exercises; how effective are those in providing the practical training?

What are the prime components of this methodology? Is it a mix of supply and demand zones as taught by Sam Seiden, volume profile levels, daily pivots, confluence of all of the above from multiple time frames, etc?

Thanks.

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  #146 (permalink)
Richmond Virginia
 
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Silverm3170 View Post
Hello,

For the folks who've taken Ziad's course, how effective is it in teaching how to determine the support and resistance zones to the same level of accuracy as Emini Player's daily levels? That's the primary reason I'm considering this course. I find Awais' levels to be quite accurate, and I'd like to learn to compute them for other markets such as CL and ZB. My understanding is they include about 60 or so exercises; how effective are those in providing the practical training?

What are the prime components of this methodology? Is it a mix of supply and demand zones as taught by Sam Seiden, volume profile levels, daily pivots, confluence of all of the above from multiple time frames, etc?

Thanks.

Are you talking about the course or the mentorship? The course goes into some detail on finding the sup/dem levels but the mentorship goes into more depth into finding them...However, there is still no guarantee yours will exactly match those of Awais's but they will be close though.

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  #147 (permalink)
Irvine + CA/USA
 
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RickW00716 View Post
Are you talking about the course or the mentorship? The course goes into some detail on finding the sup/dem levels but the mentorship goes into more depth into finding them...However, there is still no guarantee yours will exactly match those of Awais's but they will be close though.


I wasn't aware there's a course vs. mentorship; to be honest I haven't looked at the options that deeply yet. Looks like there's higher probability of getting there with the mentorship. I realize there's an element of art to this and it's not likely that any two people will get the same levels, but to get within a reasonably small delta is good enough. Thanks for your feedback.

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  #148 (permalink)
Jindřichův Hradec, Czech Republic
 
 
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Silverm3170 View Post
Hello,

For the folks who've taken Ziad's course, how effective is it in teaching how to determine the support and resistance zones to the same level of accuracy as Emini Player's daily levels? That's the primary reason I'm considering this course. I find Awais' levels to be quite accurate, and I'd like to learn to compute them for other markets such as CL and ZB. My understanding is they include about 60 or so exercises; how effective are those in providing the practical training?

What are the prime components of this methodology? Is it a mix of supply and demand zones as taught by Sam Seiden, volume profile levels, daily pivots, confluence of all of the above from multiple time frames, etc?

Thanks.

The training programme will teach you how to derive support and resistance zones based on key principles. If you follow Awais long enough you know he also takes some small stuff into account to adjust the zones. That can be learnt with practice only. At this point of time I am able to create similar zones as Awais, let say in 90%. Some days exactly the same, most days very minor distinctions, rarely completely different (yet effective though).

Prime components are not zone composing, but getting the whole picture, just go through sections of the programme which are public and you will see what is the exact content.

Exercises are very effective, training is practical, but as I said it is the whole spectrum of trading, regarding the zones it is just few videos/exercises. And yes to your last questions, plus more. (don't know Sam Seiden, and daily pivots not included)

Training is very good investment overall

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  #149 (permalink)
Paris, France
 
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Silverm3170 View Post
Hello,

For the folks who've taken Ziad's course, how effective is it in teaching how to determine the support and resistance zones to the same level of accuracy as Emini Player's daily levels? That's the primary reason I'm considering this course. I find Awais' levels to be quite accurate, and I'd like to learn to compute them for other markets such as CL and ZB. My understanding is they include about 60 or so exercises; how effective are those in providing the practical training?

What are the prime components of this methodology? Is it a mix of supply and demand zones as taught by Sam Seiden, volume profile levels, daily pivots, confluence of all of the above from multiple time frames, etc?

Thanks.

I felt he didn't teach how he comes up with his levels at all. I found what he taught about levels to be very vague. If you think about it, he sells his ES levels for a monthly subscription so he's not going to teach everyone how to do it in his course and put himself out of business!

I also think the EMP zones are so wide they're not easy to trade because it would take a 4+ pt stop which makes it hard to get a good R:R. If you look at them it looks so obvious how price turns on his levels but look closer. Often price stops short of the zone but he'll still count that as the zone working. or price will poke through it a point and it'll still count as price having reversed there, etc. And of course sometimes it just busts through.

My personal opinion is that if you want to learn to make your own levels, start by studying Dalton's books and his free webinars and FT71's paid (donation) webinars. I think those cover it well. I think once you learn how to view the market as an auction, supply & demand, rejection and acceptance, etc. then it is less about drawing a line and waiting for price to reverse on it and more about understanding what the market is doing and what is more likely to happen next. Then you just look for good R:R opportunities and put on the trade. If you have some criteria to help with a more mechanical entry and stop placement that helps too.

Also be aware of any course where they hold back things and you have to take another course or mentorship to learn the rest. That's the Tony Robbins approach that ends up with $25,000 master seminars in Fiji!!! At least with Tony we know he is really a successful guy (even if it's just selling his classes and seminars). With trading classes, most of the traders haven't even demonstrated they make money trading. That's one reason I learned a lot from FT71. He wasn't selling me training classes and mentorship and he was consistently demonstrating he was trading. Well that was a while ago, now he's selling trading software and broker fees but I digress (and I still think he's a great trader and a great teacher!).

Buyer beware. Everyone wants a shortcut. Do the work. Study and practice (on sim!).

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  #150 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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Posts: 665 since Mar 2012
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who cares about where he can trade are not..., can you trade after taking the 2000 to 3000 bath,,, that is the question that matters.. if you learn some stuff about trading there...so what , you can see 100 free webar here and 10,000 on you tube for free and learn new trader stuff...those people that turned green after they took the training with in 30 days and are now living in US virgin islands... speak up to share some of that thrill ride..

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  #151 (permalink)
Whitehall, NY
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS, Market Delta
Broker: Infinity, TOS, IB
Trading: es
 
Posts: 261 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 384 received

do these opentrader guys just keep showing the same pre recorded webinars ? Every 6 months or so they hit my email with another webinar. So yeah, where are all these traders making all this money with Opentrader??

edit : the trading statements they show are almost 10 years old !!

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  #152 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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Posts: 665 since Mar 2012
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if you could take any vendors course and then trade profitable in 30 days . would this vendor be selling the course online using adds that fallow you to your facebook page. would they not be working for Goldman Sacs. sure you can learn new stuff. so what , there is no end to that.

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  #153 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader, ensignsoftware
Broker: ampfutures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, Cl, TF
 
Posts: 120 since May 2010
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Eminiplayer sells their levels for 97$ a month. They also review them. Is it worth parting with a hard earned 97$.

is someone finding value in these ES levels.

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  #154 (permalink)
Atlanta
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ib
Trading: Es
 
Posts: 19 since Oct 2014
Thanks: 108 given, 17 received


nqcruiser View Post
Eminiplayer sells their levels for 97$ a month. They also review them. Is it worth parting with a hard earned 97$.

is someone finding value in these ES levels.

I have been with eminiplayer for a few years now and imo, it's a great service for begginners to establish a decent foundation for trading the ES. The support and resistance levels he provides are very accurate. However, if you are more advanced or have even a basic understanding of technical analysis, you could easily plot the support and resistance levels yourself.

Eminiplayer also provides a trade plan video early in the morning beore the trading session and an end of day recap video highlighting specific trade setups. Personally, the trade plan video is not very useful because 90% of the morning videos go something like this: the market could go up or maybe it could go down, it depends on the real-time intraday price action. The information in morning videos were not very actionable on my part.

A few years ago the price for a subscription was only $50. The trade levels alone were worth the $50 imo. But at the current price of $97, i think it's a bit of a stretch. If you have decent technical analysis, i dont think the service is worth the $97. If you are begginner and have no clue about the market structure of es, then yes the service is worth the $97.

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  #155 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader, ensignsoftware
Broker: ampfutures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, Cl, TF
 
Posts: 120 since May 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 51 received

i have over the years, appreciated the deep assessment of fellow members on this group. this guys sometimes packaged publicly available levels and sell it to unsuspecting members. i will stay away.

isnt there any room that works

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  #156 (permalink)
port charlotte, florida
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 100 since Dec 2011
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If by Trading Room, you mean an open question/answer/comment environment then my experience is that none of them work. There are simply too many inexperienced people asking the same inexperienced questions and getting answers from other inexperienced people. A case of the blind leading the blind. Even if the room leader/trader means well, there is just too much 'noise' for this too work.

Your question leads me to realize that perhaps a trader who just lets you see what he is doing with explanations on a live trading account would work. I have never stumbled across one of those but perhaps I will see if I can find one. The essential part of this would be that he is trading live with real money. If anyone else knows of such a 'room' please share.

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