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TST Combine results and strategies for passing


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TST Combine results and strategies for passing

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  #71 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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What is so hard to understand here? Maximum means the maximum drawdown. It does not mean end of day drawdown, because that wouldn't be the maximum would it.

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  #72 (permalink)
 MsFutures 
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What is so hard to understand here? Maximum means the maximum drawdown. It does not mean end of day drawdown, because that wouldn't be the maximum would it.

Mike

"The Max Drawdown is the largest realized cumulative loss allowed in your Trading Combine. Should you hit or exceeded this value, the Combine account will not be eligible for a deposit refund or considered for funded-trader status. For example, in a $30K Combine the Max Drawdown is $1,500. Therefore, if at the end of any trading day your Account Balance appearing on your Trade Report is $28,500 OR below, the Max Drawdown is considered hit."

That is the definition from their website. The key words here are "realized" and "end of day", unless they don' t really mean what you think they mean.

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  #73 (permalink)
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MsFutures View Post
"The Max Drawdown is the largest realized cumulative loss allowed in your Trading Combine. Should you hit or exceeded this value, the Combine account will not be eligible for a deposit refund or considered for funded-trader status. For example, in a $30K Combine the Max Drawdown is $1,500. Therefore, if at the end of any trading day your Account Balance appearing on your Trade Report is $28,500 OR below, the Max Drawdown is considered hit."

That is the definition from their website. The key words here are "realized" and "end of day", unless they don' t really mean what you think they mean.

OK then I agree, if that is what their website says and they are saying intraday (which I would assume anyway, being "maximum drawdown") then they need to update their site. BTW, intraday you can still realize more loss than you end with at end of day. So they need to clarify open positions, closed positions, or end of day.

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  #74 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I don't know why this thread is in the Journal section. It is not a journal.

I am moving it to the vendor review section.

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  #75 (permalink)
 DarkPoolTrading 
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Thanks to those putting in some effort to clarify the rules. However just keep in mind that the discussion seems to be focused around, "Will I fail the combine if I reach the loss limit intraday or end of day". In my opinion if you are that close to failing the combine (with either option), you probably dont have much chance of passing the combine anyway and should have had your own money management rules in place to stop your trading far earlier anyway.

It's all well and good to clarify the rules. But in this particular case, if you're that close to the edge, you're probably not going to get funded either way and there is more work to be done on your trading than nit picking about wording in the rules.

Work on your trading.

Just thought id throw this out there.

ps. Once again, it is appreciated that the rules are being clarified.

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  #76 (permalink)
Pedro40
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In my opinion if you are that close to failing the combine (with either option), you probably dont have much chance of passing the combine anyway and should have had your own money management rules in place to stop your trading far earlier anyway.

Good point, but not entirely true. If you want to reach the profit target, you have to use the max. contract size or close to it. When using the max. number of contracts, it is rather easy to get close to the DLL.

Example: 30K Combine, you use the max. 3 contracts trading ES. You can only lose 3 points and you are already flirting with the DLL. Let's say you use a 2 points stop loss and you start out the day with a losing trade. You already have to scale back, or risking hitting the DLL on your next trade...

So it is important to clarify and understand the rules, thus a misunderstanding doesn't take you out of the Combine....

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  #77 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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"The Max Drawdown is the largest realized cumulative loss allowed in your Trading Combine... Should you hit or exceeded this value, the Combine account will not be eligible for a deposit refund or considered for funded-trader status. For example, in a $30K Combine the Max Drawdown is $1,500. Therefore, if at the end of any trading day your Account Balance appearing on your Trade Report is $28,500 OR below, the Max Drawdown is considered hit."

That is the definition from their website. The key words here are "realized" and "end of day", unless they don' t really mean what you think they mean.

The more I am looking at these restricting combine rules the more I see that a trading approach there is most
appropriate for scalpers with options or only small margined futures. The max. DD is limited to 5% from initial balance.
If you are used to have more than say 2 consecutive trades hitting your WIDE SL then that combine is nothing to look for.
Example: Trading the DAX (which is happily not possible to trade on with TST) would mean that only scalpers could
make some good - of course with lots more of commission ;-)
Trading that with SL settings of GFIs1 would mean that you are OUT after two negative trades in a row! For certain
systems one is looking for developing a trade and not to limit that one with a tight SL. If there is already a negative
trade in the history - the next one should use a "tighter" stop - and that one would be hit nearly 100% and is evt. against
the rules. (GFIs1 SL settings are 30 points which means 750 EUR or minus 2,5% for ONE car in a combine).
Over all - the "wider" trading systems where price is making more up and down before closing a trade - are NOT
good for a combine! Only the short time / small movement (on both sides) trades with high expectancy to be positive
have a chance to get rewarded.

So a responsible trader should think twice to put money, sweat and risk into a 5% max. risk combine where only luck
within a positive period could prevent from frustration.

GFIs1

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  #78 (permalink)
Pedro40
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GFIs1 View Post
The max. DD is limited to 5% from initial balance.

The whole account size is rather misleading in the Combine. One could trade a 5K real account with the exact same parameters than the 30K Combine, so really 30K is not needed. And there is no point in having a 30K account if the biggest allowed DD is only 1.5K. But anyway...


Quoting 
If you are used to have more than say 2 consecutive trades hitting your WIDE SL then that combine is nothing to look for.

That's when strategizing comes in. First, you don't go all in at the first trade of the day, but build a little cushion. Or if the first trade with max. account size was a loser, obviously the second trade's size has to be half of that or minimal.
The point (of this thread) is that you have to plan ahead, according to the rules...


Quoting 
Over all - the "wider" trading systems where price is making more up and down before closing a trade - are NOT good for a combine! Only the short time / small movement (on both sides) trades with high expectancy to be positive have a chance to get rewarded.

That is not exactly true. Because of the parameters, scalping is not really encouraged. The duration parameter is against scalping, so is the average winner vs. average loser. Also, commissions do add up and counts against you, so that is another disadvantage of scalping.

I would say TST would rather see the trader holding to winners and let them ride the good position than jumping in and out of trades...

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  #79 (permalink)
 DarkPoolTrading 
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Pedro40 View Post
Good point, but not entirely true. If you want to reach the profit target, you have to use the max. contract size or close to it. When using the max. number of contracts, it is rather easy to get close to the DLL.

Im sorry but I disagree with that completely. Personally I will purposefully not be using the max contracts allowed. Each day will start on 2 contracts and build up depending on the equity built up through the day.

Not sure if you listen to the newly funded trader interviews but if not, give them a listen. You'll be surprised at how many of them only traded one contract and got funded.

But to each their own. You need to be happy and comfortable with your strategy.


Pedro40 View Post
So it is important to clarify and understand the rules, thus a misunderstanding doesn't take you out of the Combine....

Agreed.

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  #80 (permalink)
Pedro40
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Im sorry but I disagree with that completely. Personally I will purposefully not be using the max contracts allowed.

Sure, you don't have to. But more contracts you use, less wiggle room you have for a stop loss. Less contract you use, more time/trades it takes to reach the profit target. So it is a balancing act. It is alright to go big when the gods make the alignment perfect for a particular trade.
In my first Combine I only traded 1 contract and the highest profit I reached was 1200$. Had I traded 2 contracts, I would have made the profit target of 2000$ but I also would have hit the DLL...


Quoting 
Each day will start on 2 contracts and build up depending on the equity built up through the day.

That is a good strategy and I advised it earlier...

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