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Can Educators really give us education?(result from a trading competition)
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Can Educators really give us education?(result from a trading competition)

  #11 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.thestrategylab.com 
Quebec, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: X-Trader, InfinityAT, Saxotrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES, Emini RTY (TF), Crude CL, Eurex DAX, EuroFX 6E, Forex EurUsd and Hang Seng HSI
 
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gibbs View Post
Don't have the exact numbers but the final combined loss was around $2,200 for the seven 90-minute sessions (trading 2 markets with up to a 3-lot). I believe Tim had the only profitable session in round 1 where he made about $100 after comms - he lost $ in the semis and won the finals by losing the least amount.

Not a trading friendly environment with a couple silly rules and too short a session, but results are results and with the exception of one semi-final match (on rollover day) there was good to very good trading.

Much is made of the fact that these are "educators" but if 8 of the top posters on any active forum competed and the above results were used as the baseline, I would take the "under".

The rules stated which specific 90 minute sessions they were allowed to trade or did the rules state you can trade anytime but only for 90 minutes ?

If the former, that's a ridiculous competition because you may have to trade when you have no trade signals. Just the same, you may have trade signals that you are not allowed to trade because it's outside some designated 90 minute trading session. Hopefully they were allowed to choose their 90 minute trading session.

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  #12 (permalink)
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Maybe CNBC or 60 minutes should do an "investigation" report on trading/tradeucation businesses. Here's a recent CNBC special report on MLM's like Herbalife. (HLF)

"Selling the Dream"

Selling the American Dream: Investigations, Inc.

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  #13 (permalink)
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San Mateo, CA, USA
 
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Cloudy View Post
Maybe CNBC or 60 minutes should do an "investigation" report on trading/tradeucation businesses. Here's a recent CNBC special report on MLM's like Herbalife. (HLF)

"Selling the Dream"

Selling the American Dream: Investigations, Inc.


Good point.

I sometimes remember the stats:"90% of futures trader lose money to 10% of others". Well, most of us thought that we could be the 10%. I wish people could tell me the cold stats in another way, the futures market is like the ultimate fighter battlefield, or like gladiator fighting. By listening to this, I might still end up in the field eventually, but with more cautious mind and I might be much better prepared.

This is a field filled with big gorillas and big sharks, and they are fighting each others. I have to remind myself that I am a tiny tiny fish in the pond and have to watch out all the time. Dream is tough.

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  #14 (permalink)
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wrbtrader View Post
The rules stated which specific 90 minute sessions they were allowed to trade or did the rules state you can trade anytime but only for 90 minutes ?

If the former, that's a ridiculous competition because you may have to trade when you have no trade signals. Just the same, you may have trade signals that you are not allowed to trade because it's outside some designated 90 minute trading session. Hopefully they were allowed to choose their 90 minute trading session.

They were allowed to trade 2 selected instruments for 90 minutes. In the final the rules were loosen and finalists allowed to trade any number and any instrument, for the same time. It was the US morning session, from the open if i remember well.

Although i agree with you, many of the vendors, in their websites, make statements like "we are usually done trading in the first couple hours of the market open", but their results for that time were pretty bad... And my personal impression was that many times they looked like guessing and gambling. They were good at telling you the story of the market in hindsight, but in foresight some looked pretty lost...

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  #15 (permalink)
 Vendor: backtothefuturetrading.com 
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These are all some really great insights.

Regrettably, we've noticed two patterns that we tell people are excellent "tells" about an educator.

First, as exemplified by your negative losing streak data set, does the educator prepare the student for the inevitable losing streak in some way shape or form? We direct new traders back to the book, "The Trading Game" by Ryan Jones and then to his money management strategies for losing (using a moving average on the equity curve for example, or leveraging the statistics of the model to set a "live/sim" threshold before you arrive there. Most of the educators we've come across start out well balanced, I believe, but then come around to the reality that the marketplace is really clogged, and posting results ie 'selling the dream' is the easier faster way to sales.

Second, we've noticed that most educators don't stress two pretty important pre-cursors to successful trading. Number one, that it's an intensely personal journey...that no two people are going to walk away with the same strategy or methodology. I know one trader for example that trades crude with a 50 sma. Nothing else. He is independently wealthy. No one else I know could trade his system. A great educator is one that introduces you to these basic concepts we all talk about on this forum, and eases you into the reality that you will "see" them organize themselves in a very personal way.

That "seeing" though, takes a very important component...number 2, "time". I don't know many traders that are successful until well into their 5th,6th, or 7th year of study. Being honest with someone as an educator and "throttling them down" into reality while being the best thing to do, sometimes does so at the cost of a lost student and paycheck. I find it very enabling though when someone's up front and makes me count the cost in advance. It would have saved me thousands of dollars, as well as made them thousands of dollars as an educator.

I wonder what other people think about this?

Please send me a Private Message if you have any questions about BTTFT services
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