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Anyone heard about symmetry indicators (www.symmetryindicators.com)


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Anyone heard about symmetry indicators (www.symmetryindicators.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
San Mateo
 
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I am wondering if anyone have heard a indicator call symmetry (Jay cluster methodology)?

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  #3 (permalink)
Hong Kong
 
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Here, I am only sharing my opinion.

In the room, you will hear a lot about hindsight trading. Yes, his accuracy was high based on hindsight theory. If i remember correctly, the turnover on his members list was high. Meaning people come and go real quick.

I think maybe for once, I saw what claimed to be a real trade from his autotrader. Then, the chart only showed execution, it may even be on SIM since the charttrader part wasn't shown.

His latest autotrader programs were no more than fib clusters that could be found on forum(just different visual)

Now, back to reality. If someone had a money making machine, why would he be selling it? If it's really at a high percentage win ratio, he can easily grow from 5 lots to 20 lots, then to 50 lots then to 100 lots. perhaps even bigger size in a year time. Why have 20-50 other traders splitting that liquidity from the market while he can own it all?

I made a mistake by going with it. it's like a trading mistake. You live and learn from it. I see you have only posted twice on futures.io (formerly BMT). Rather than searching for whose trade room is good or whose autotrader works, read more about other member's idea. You have your own idea, get someone to write codes on it. At least your methodology is buying or selling based on what you know.

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  #4 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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YEA I HEARD OF HIM --- HE IS A FKN NUTCASE.

He will post a trade in in the room THAT DID NOT WORK and go on for like 20 minutes !! DURING TRADING HOURS ! Saying that it did work!! THEN =-= When a lot of people in the room started commenting that that trade did not work --- HE WOULD GO AND TELL THEM TO SHUT UP OR HE WOULD KICK THEM OUT OF THE ROOM. He is INSANE!

He would tell a new guy or a member to SHUT UP or HE WOULD KICK THEM OUT OF THE ROOM... WTF..!

Insane is the word that comes to mind when I think of that fool. Insane and destructively negative. He would not like other people if they were right and he was wrong.

He would straight LIE about a trade working - when IT CLEARLY did not work according to his rules - and the evidence is right there on the chart!! Yet he will get on the mic and say that it worked. INSANE and Ultra negative.

STAY AWAY from that guy is all I can posibly tell you. He will bullshit like crazy.

ALL OF HIS "MEMBERS" that were with him when I was there are now gone - and have gone to other rooms or are on their own because they couldn't take his attitude anymore. :O

I dropped his B.S. and worked on my own thing... I couldn't take his INSANITY for too long.

He would also interrupt during live trading times!!! He would move the charts and cover them up and interrupt YOUR TRADING whenever the "F" he wanted. Extrememelly disrespectful...

HE WOULD NEVER EVER SHOW HIS TRADES or his trading. HE BARELY TRAINS. YOU WILL NOT LEARN HOW TO TRADE WITH HIM.

HE ONLY CARES ABOUT TAKING $250 PER MONTH FROM YOU AND NEVER TEACHING YOU HOW TO TRADE REALLY.

He never wants or EVEN PRETENDS to ever make you an independent trader like real teachers do. HELL I think there are members here that teach MORE than that Psycho did.

ONE TIME :
A professional female trader came to the room. He had managed rooms before... and she basically started schooling that Crude OIL was going to start going down based on fundamentals... And he started saying that he didn't believe in fundamentals at all and started to get mad that she was "arguing" in "his" room.

Crude Oil did start a down trend and he still was arguing. A real person will know that there are different point of views and yes Chart Analysis is ( In my Opinion ) than Fundamentals == but when they both line up -- it will be super super strong move !

EVERY OTHER TIME:
HE WILL KEEP INFORMATION FROM THE MEMBERS AND CONTINUOUSLY TRY TO EXHORT MONEY FROM HIS PAYING MEMBERS... INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY HELP THEM. Let me explain.

He will NEVER EVER Show his trades.. only MAYBE after the fact.
He will NEVER EVER Show his Chart Trader - so all of his trades could be in SIM. Most of them probably are.

POSSIBLY WORST ONE: He will get on the MIC and want to start selling you some complete Bullshit TRADING PROGRAM.
DURING TRADING HOURS ! AND HE WILL NEVER SHOW YOU THE ACTUAL STATS OF THE PROGRAM. HE WILL NOT SHOW THE LOSSES. HE WILL ONLY SHOW BULLSHIT TRADES. Oh and by the way... his supposedly Magical Trading program -- is nothing more than the SuperTrend indicator that is available in the downloads section... that doesn't really work anyway.. so..

WOULD YOU TRUST A NUTCASE LIKE THAT?? With YOUR money?!

Seriously -- My official end of story review for this guy is: That he found some market profile thing that sort of works sometimes... AND THEN HE CLAIMS LIKE HE INVENTED IT. LIKE HE DISCOVERED IT.

HE CONTINUOUSLY SAYS IN THE ROOM THAT HE KNOWS AND TALKS WITH THE "INVENTOR OF MARKET PROFILE" - yet never has produced evidence of this. He keeps talking like he invented everything. Like he invented futures practically.

I would say stay the hell away from that guy and invest your 250/month on a better teacher. End of story. Don't know what else to say.

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  #5 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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OpalDragon and typer77

You have said enough but I want to add my own experience being only attracted to his webinar and follow up "training". He scheduled training for late afternoon so it suited me as it was early morning our time. I have joined the room and I am waiting, waiting... When I asked about promised training he finally showed up and said it was already done as anounced earlier (apparently as soon as I went to bed) - so I missed out and he would not repeat it. I showed my disappointmnet so he went 'agro' and ended up kicking me out of the room!

If this is the way the potential client is being treated then what type of treatment one can experience once the payment is done? Now I can see from your experiences that I was right not to go any further.

In recent webinar for NT he stated that he uses only 3 methods but from what I have seen so far every few months he comes with 'new, brilliant idea and program'.

And, inicators truly can be easily found here on this forum (BIG THANKS to Big Mike for running it! and all contributors submitting to this forum) even the latest craze with Renko bars - looks like many vendors try to come with their own - can be found here for free.

Looking at Symmetry's latest invention I have put together SuperTrend, Derivatives Oscillator and UniRenko bars to get very similar visual results.

I am not saying that there are no good traders and educators out there - just Jay Wireman IMO is not one of them.

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  #6 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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romus View Post
OpalDragon and typer77

You have said enough but I want to add my own experience being only attracted to his webinar and follow up "training". He scheduled training for late afternoon so it suited me as it was early morning our time. I have joined the room and I am waiting, waiting... When I asked about promised training he finally showed up and said it was already done as anounced earlier (apparently as soon as I went to bed) - so I missed out and he would not repeat it. I showed my disappointmnet so he went 'agro' and ended up kicking me out of the room!

Damn dude... @romus that sucks... but yea I unfortunately know what you are saying... that does sound like him.

The guy is a psycho.... :O end of story.. I am not using the word correctly *most probably.. but you know what I mean.

Also I don't know what you mean by "Agro" -- like : he went 'agro' . That word is unfamiliar to me.. but I think you meant 'crazy and psycho...'? Because that is how he was/is ....

Good thing people will see this thread and tell him to f off... ;p

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  #7 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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OpalDragon View Post
Also I don't know what you mean by "Agro" -- like : he went 'agro' . That word is unfamiliar to me.. but I think you meant 'crazy and psycho...'? Because that is how he was/is ....

...Just wanted to chime in to 'translate' the abbreviation 'agro', since this is a common shortcut to describe a person as aggressive or getting wicked very quickly.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #8 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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Ok.. that makes sense... that was going to be my guess -- but didn't know if it was for something else in internet slang.. ;p

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  #9 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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Yes Guys,
This is what I meant - agro as aggressive.
I was really frustrated at the time as I wanted to use that opportunity to learn and try their system so I stayed a little longer at night and woke up early in the morning to find out it's all over!
And the attitude - no apologies - well I felt as I was to blame as I just missed it!
Anyway, one of the "potholes" on the road to becoming a trader...
Cheers,
romus

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #10 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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I wanted to REVISIT this thread and give these links to THE REVIEWS OF THIS NUTCASE.
>>>
https://tradingschools.net/?p=1408&unapproved=134&moderation-hash=f99e70b602ca9d49e35dab8bf840eaae

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/day-trading-the-futures-jay-wireman-and-his-magical-trading-indicators/


This thread always needs a bump every 2 or 3 months lol

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  #11 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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OpalDragon View Post
I wanted to REVISIT this thread and give these links to THE REVIEWS OF THIS NUTCASE.
>>>
https://tradingschools.net/?p=1408&unapproved=134&moderation-hash=f99e70b602ca9d49e35dab8bf840eaae

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/day-trading-the-futures-jay-wireman-and-his-magical-trading-indicators/


This thread always needs a bump every 2 or 3 months lol

Looks like he is still live and selling.
His website has the longest Risk Disclosure / Risk Disclaimer I have ever seen!

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #12 (permalink)
Amsterdam Netherlands
 
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coolma1973 View Post
I am wondering if anyone have heard a indicator call symmetry (Jay cluster methodology)?

Maybe this helps:


https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/day-trading-the-futures-jay-wireman-and-his-magical-trading-indicators/

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  #13 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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romus View Post
Looks like he is still live and selling.
His website has the longest Risk Disclosure / Risk Disclaimer I have ever seen!

I saw that -- that is fked up.

This industry NEEDS a purge.

I have noticed a major commonality between all the charlatans and GRIFTERS.

They ALL and I MEAN ALL appeal to the newcomer in trading field by telling them that THEY and THEY ONLY have everything figured out.

AND THEN >>> THAT THE NEWCOMER DOES NOT HAVE TO WORK ON THEMSELVES OR LEARN ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING.

They can just turnkey and start trading.

Luckily I learned that 99.9999999% OF ALL the socalled "trading educators" are absolute garbage.

The best are Dr. Van K Tharp and few others..... and all the ones that are good... The few 3 or 4 out of literally THOUSANDS:

They will say that you HAVE LEARN, AND GROW AS A TRADER AND DECISION MAKER AND DO PERMORMANCE ENNHANCEMENT.

and YOU HAVE TO LEARN SOME KIND OF FRAMEWORK for the Market that works

Or develop some program or algo that has clear and definable edge at some specific time of the market and market in specific.

An "algo" that works at the HIGH Volatility of "Market Open" may not work on the sideways action of the Overnight.

Also an 'algo' that works on Commodities like Crude and Gold and Nat. Gas may not working in a super trending market like NQ and ES

A person really has to learn some methodology and ways of analyzing the market and price action that has real and quantifiable edge.

A person also has to go over their MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL FAULTS AND THE STRENGTHS. List the strengths and the faults and work on eliminating the faults.

Etc. etc. etc. etc.

There are real strategies that work.

I know a group of traders that trade VOLATILITY on STOCKS with OPTIONS and the VIX pretty much only....
They look for stocks that have a ton VIX movement and work on trading that stock with options.

But the damn "Symmetry Indicators" and the "Intentional Traders" and the "Indicator Warehouse" and even the Neurostreets -- are basically garbage.

Neurostreet does seem to have "SOME" stuff that works.... somewhat ...

But it looks extremely extremely overpriced.


Nobody wants to start at Dr. Van K Tharp or other people that have actual real systems that work -- because real trading requires you to actually grow and develop as a person.

So as long as people don't google and learn for real these sh@atteryindicators will continue to work of people's room monthly fees!

I checked this @**hole's websites and his Youtube channel and they have gotten like 82 views in 5 years -- so we have pretty much effectively destroyed their business.... at least like by 80 to 90% --- which is great -- but they should be gone 100%.


We NEED TO MAKE IT more obvious to new traders that THEY HAVE TO LEARN the markets and how they move.

They have to learn about the markets and make systems that work for them.

I think you would agree....

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  #14 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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@OpalDragon,

I agree that there is no easy way to success.
There are far too many showing you fantastic system that they do not even trade themselves, or just on demo.
If they sell you their "secret" or any "trading secrets" - run as fast as you can.

Have seen a few, joined a few - the only benefit being that the first one mentioned this forum - which I joined while ago - and this was best spent money in my life.

Ideal scenario could be that if a vendor has too many complaints then e.g. Ninja would refuse to present their webinars as educational.

It is very hard to trade someone else's system successfully, unless it is automated strategy!
One needs to develop system that suits individual's need and temperament, risk tolerance etc.
Too many times I have heard from many presenters - DYOR (Do Your Own Research)

It is better to specialise in one instrument rather than anything.

Personally, I am big fan of Jake Bernstein and seasonality - being longer term or intraday!

My only biggest problem is lack of coding skills - and some limitations of the platforms to execute the strategy the intended way. (I use Strategy Wizard and Builder to test some ideas).

But there are so many helpful people here either posting their own hard work or helping others getting their ideas transformed into indicator or strategy.

If the trading rooms were having their strategies robust enough, why don't they run a copy service and then show results of real trades?
Or just make the millions by themselves, sit on Bahamas and relax!

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #15 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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Hmmm, the problem is that to rate something one has to mark at least one star, not a 0!

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #16 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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romus View Post
Hmmm, the problem is that to rate something one has to mark at least one star, not a 0!

EXACTLY !

All of those RATINGS sites have that PROBLEM.

If I go to a restaurant and instead of getting a burger I get a huge steaming pile of turds >>> then I want to leave you a 0 star review.

NOT a 1 star review. lol

Romus >>>
I agree Jake Berstein is a great trader. Only seen a few things from him - but what I have seen look great.

I definitely want to check out some of his webinars.

Is there one that you most recommend or struck out to you.

I attended Dr. Van Tharps Systems Workshops and The PEAK PERFORMANCE 101 AND 202.

Both were great.

Peak performance was absolutely great. Highly recommend
The systems workshops were more intense -- like College PHD levels of Systems building and thinking.
Great stuff -- just college level intense but you start to think in WHOLE Systems instead of parts.

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  #17 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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@OpalDragon,

I have only attended one seminar here with Jake and his approach impressed me.

You may find a lot on YouTube or on his website.
Yes, he is selling a lot of stuff but I have subscribed to his series Charts with Jake - for FREE (~5min long - everyday)
One of them is here:
https://www.chartswithjake.com/2021/02/chart-of-the-day-with-jake-bernstein-february-2-2021/

He is explaining his Moving Average Channel (MAC), he was doing before Open Close relationship.
Especially convenient in your time zone.

His methods are straight forward and objective, without indicator overload.
All of these indicators you can find on FIO and use in NT.

He now promotes using this method on EOD - it used to be OK for Day Trading - but times have changed with HFT - so he takes this into account.
I am following many of Jake Bernstein ideas and now trying to enhance them with Cesar Alvarez research.

One most important aspect in his (and every method) is proper (measured) risk.


I have Van Tharp book - Trade your way to financial freedom - I just have not read it yet...

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #18 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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Awesome -- I will check out his videos. I didn't know about those.

I am completely unfamiliar with Cesar Alvarez.

Is this his website?
https://alvarezquanttrading.com/

It looks super interesting.

How long have you been with them? They seem ultra ultra professional. He talks about all the real things with quant trading PLUS THE LIMITATIONS. You never ever ever hear the FALSE GURUS... FAKE GURUS ... talk about limitations, drawdowns, longest drawdown period, R:Ratios, Sharpe Ratio, etc etc..

You should open up a new Thread on them to hear on Trading Reviews and Vendors.

I am damn interested in a good longterm startegy that requires little time and effort and just grows money

Right now the best investments are Tesla and some Bitcoin.... in my opinion.

But if you have some damn good other growth strategy then that can balance your portfolio a little bit.

Unless that affects you on taxes too much which would render the whole process useless. If taxes do affect too much then just buying Tesla and a few others are good enough...


That is a question I have always had >>> Does a longterm strategy like his have adverse tax effects? How do you not pay capital tax on after every good trade?

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  #19 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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@OpalDragon,

Yes, this is Cesar Alvarez site.
Lots of real info - and quant is the way I like.
Technical Analysis is good, but subjective.
Quant adds the metrics to it and becomes more objective, in my opinion.
I was attending seminar with one very good analyst here and he drew some pattern on live, intraday chart, cleared it as he was called out of the room and upon return he drew different pattern! :-)

I do not know about Bitcoin future - had a couple of good hunches but did not proceed with opening account with any of the exchanges.
At some point there was quite a good spread on it, now is ~$100 - hmmm, not to my liking as I am rather short term trader.
On the other hand read something from BigMike that Ethereum is better technology, hence may have better future.
Talk of the town between some techie (IT) guys was usually Ether.
Well, I do not know that - hence do not touch. At this stage.
But probably can be traded as any other instrument - but I prefer something solid like a good stock or Index.

Taxation is another issue - but few times I wanted to take advantage of 12 month tax reduction (50% here) and profits evaporated!

This IS tricky business! But I love it. Especially since I started to take more or less calculated risk.
And to be honest - still need more discipline and patience - but I am learning it!

When nothing goes right... go left
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  #20 (permalink)
Des Moines, Iowa
 
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Sounds awesome Romus!
You are definitely learning from the right people.

Quant REALLY IS fantastic for sure.

I totally agree on the "pattern" b.s.

It is mostly b.s. and doesn't work.

Easy to spot "patterns" are almost always broken.

If you like Quant mostly >> then you would also like

Laurent Bernut
He is a great SYSTEMS Trader and a pure algo trader.
He just trades relatively simple systems on pure algo....
He has some really good beliefs and some really really good opinions on creating systems.
https://www.quora.com/profile/Laurent-Bernut

https://quantra.quantinsti.com/course/short-selling-in-trading?utm_source=referral&utm_medium=quora&utm_campaign=laurent

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Laurent+Bernut&pbjreload=102[/yt]

I can't believe a thread about the ABSOLUTE MOST TURD AND SHIT of this industry ..... turned into a thread about the absolute best in this industry.

From aberrant scammer losers >>> all the way to pure algo and systems traders... haha

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  #21 (permalink)
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
 
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Posts: 270 since Dec 2010
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@OpalDragon,

Well, when one reached the bottom then the only way is to bounce and go UP!
We have named and shamed - with some solution for others searching and reading this thread.

If this is the way they choose to go.

My favourite TA guy always says: DYOR - Do Your Own Research.
Get an idea and develop a strategy/system that suits YOU!

Thank you for the links - have not heard about Laurent Bernut - looks like he has some interesting stuff as well - plus I have not even explored anything quant on FIO!

Cheers!

When nothing goes right... go left
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