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Al Brooks Trading Course (www.brookstradingcourse.com)


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Al Brooks Trading Course (www.brookstradingcourse.com)

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  #301 (permalink)
 Seahn 
New York, New Jersey/USA
 
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emini2000 View Post
While anyone would defend a vendor that wouldn't furnish proof of their success if they are claiming to be a successful trader is beyond me. It really is mind boggling.

I guess I would be categorized as an Al Brooks supporter so here goes my argument.

For trading rooms in general, to me it is beyond obvious that practically all are scams. I do not need any proof and do not expect any. The best thing would be if they were required to provide proof because they would all disappear. Then I would bet you would have an outcry from all the uninformed or naive traders that want to be spoon fed trading success.

We all have to live in and deal with the world in front of us, not the utopian ideal we would like to have. The term "buyer beware" and car salesmen come to mind. You cannot regulate away stupidity. Those who go to trade rooms would find somewhere else to squander their money looking for the easy way out.

As for Al Brooks, I have not been in his room but have purchased his books and video course. What I have read is he does not call out trades in his room, he basically points out price action he sees in real time. From what I have seen in his weekly video Q&A on YouTube his own trading style is mostly to scalp one point many times a day but what he teaches in his books and course is more of an intraday swing style of price action trading. So seeing his brokerage statements would not help because apparently his personal trading is not in line with what he teaches. My point is that the Brooks room is not what you would call a classic trading room because no actual trading is done.

Personally I have found the Brooks price action concepts in his books and videos to be a perfect fit with my own trading personality. I have made his price action concepts the foundation of my trading style and I know they work for me. As the foundation of my trading I use Brooks price action only to gauge what the market is doing at the moment. More often than not I have a good handle on what is going on using Brooks price action. But the details of my entries and exits are all based on my own style I have formed through years of watching and trading the market. Having said that not all traders will find the Brooks price action concepts useful or be able to make sense and use them. That does not make Al Brooks a scam.

The way I see it all these people demanding proof from Brooks are effectively requiring proof that "price action" works. To me that is a really silly idea. It may work for me but not you. I find it rather ironic that in trading where absolutely nothing is guaranteed and the market can do anything at any moment people are so stuck on having absolute proof of anything.

So yes I support Al Brooks and think he is one of those in this business that is above board. He teaches how price action works not how to trade as it should be.

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  #302 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.

As most of you know, we work extremely hard to provide the highest quality content to our members. I am constantly approached by vendors and I turn down 90% of them, because I don’t believe the content of the webinar would be beneficial to our members. That also could mean the reputation of the vendor is not good, and we don’t want to be associated with them in any way.

It is extremely difficult to find high quality educators and experienced traders in this industry who have a true desire to help people, that value honesty and integrity above profit, and are willing and able to take extremely valuable time out of their schedule to lecture to our members. On top of that, as a trader myself, I must often allow a webinar on a topic or a style of trading that I don’t personally believe in, but that I believe the community as a whole would still benefit from (for example, scalping). It is difficult to balance these things, but we do our best.

In the past, a few mistakes have been made where a vendor was permitted to do a webinar, and then after-the-fact I realized it was a mistake, or they violated our no self-promotion rule. I’m not perfect, and don’t pretend to be. I just do the best I can, always doing what I feel is best for our community. In one example, the webinar was removed from the site because the vendor had such a bad reputation. In other examples, the presenter was simply never invited back .

Unfortunately, most of the so called educators or “mentors” out there focus on making false promises and posting fancy Excel spreadsheets showing how “easy” it is to make money – often charging ridiculous amounts of money to learn their “secret”. Even more unfortunate, there are enough new traders or “new blood” for these dishonest vendors to survive on this type of deception, preying on these rookie traders that simply don’t know any better. The number of “trading rooms” that provide so called “signals” is proof of this problem, leading uneducated rookie traders down the wrong path and causing a sort of never ending loop where traders spend all their time and resources on finding a new trading room, instead of focusing within and working through their problems that are holding back their performance. It is human nature to reach outward for a solution you are struggling to solve yourself -- but to be a good trader, you have to compete against the best traders in the world that figured out a long time ago there is no shortcut, and most of the answers come from within, with due time and gained experience (usually at quite a price).

On FIO, our priority is to be a unique community where we help traders while providing a friendly, constructive and positive feedback environment. I place a great deal of emphasis on encouraging traders to create their own trading journal on the site, because I believe the process of journaling their trades will open their eyes to the true problems they are facing, and allow them to tackle them one by one over time. I have written about this extensively over the years, and I believe that anyone out there right now that is struggling as a trader should take note of what I am saying – start a public journal today, start holding yourself accountable and stop looking to others to solve your problems. If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. Like I said, there are no shortcuts in trading.

I spend a lot of time moderating the forum so that the very tiny percentage of troubled users that stoop to childish behavior don’t ruin the environment for everyone else. Many of you have witnessed how quickly negativity can spread, and if you visit other trading websites you’ll most likely see this type of behavior running rampant. I started the forum 7 years ago because I strongly disliked the options available to me as a trader, because I wanted to spend time in a community surrounded by my peers but couldn’t that so much of the content on the sites was just childish behavior. The signal-to-noise ratio was terrible, and I thought I could do better. Thus, our community was born and I am extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished together.

Why am I stating all of this? Recently there has been a lively discussion about Al Brooks on the forum, and I wanted to address some of it here.

Some members believe they can only learn something from a trader that makes money. At face value that seems to make a lot of sense. But, I would beg to differ. I believe I am in a unique position as the forum administrator, because I get to see the patterns of tens of thousands of users. Over the past 7 years of running the site, I’ve read hundreds of thousands of posts, and statistics would suggest that many of them were not written by profitable traders . Yet, I am a far better trader today than I was before I started the forum, because I’ve learned what the common mistakes and common patterns are from traders that both lose money as well as make money. I firmly believe there is great value in learning from failure, just as there is in learning from success. I personally believe that traders that say there is no value in learning anything from someone that doesn’t have a proven track record of success, are really just using it as an excuse so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own trading. It is far easier to blame others for your failures, for example blaming someone that taught you a bad or unprofitable method – instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

In a similar light, some members want proof of success by way of trading statements. Some of them have said you wouldn’t hire a plumber or a roofer that had no proven track record at their job, or you wouldn’t hire a doctor with no valid license, so why would you hire a mentor that has no proven track record in trading? Again, at face value that sounds logical. But life is rarely that black and white, and trading is certainly no exception. Ultimately, that is a decision you will have to make on your own, and like most things in trading, it is going to be based on your own beliefs which is going to provide a bias with your decision. My opinion is as I’ve already stated, that quite frankly you should stop chasing vendors to provide some sort of blanket “solution” such as making you a profitable trader. You will not find success in some shortcut such as trying to copy someone else’s methodology. Instead, you need to look at each vendor, indicator, trading room, webinar, etc, as a resource to help you address a specific problem you’ve already identified in your own trading. For example, if you are a scalper you can still find value in listening to a webinar from a swing trader, if you keep an open mind and add some key component to your own trading, instead of trying to just replicate someone else’s behavior.

Here are some questions for Al, so that he can make a comment or a statement. I hope that you consider everything I’ve said above when listening to Al’s answers.

1. Do you tell your students that you are a successful trader, and that you trade for a living, making money from your trading?
2. Do you offer any proof?
3. Anything you would like to add?

Thanks,
Mike

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  #303 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: CQG
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Posts: 578 since May 2016
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.

As most of you know, we work extremely hard to provide the highest quality content to our members. I am constantly approached by vendors and I turn down 90% of them, because I don’t believe the content of the webinar would be beneficial to our members. That also could mean the reputation of the vendor is not good, and we don’t want to be associated with them in...................

Great post mike.

Look fwd to hearing the answers to your Qs.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #304 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
Beijing China
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation Sierra Chart
Trading: Emini ES
 
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Posts: 20 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 15 given, 16 received


Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.

As most of you know, we work extremely hard to provide the highest quality content to our members. I am constantly approached by vendors and I turn down 90% of them, because I don’t believe the content of the webinar would be beneficial to our members. That also could mean the reputation of the vendor is not good, and we don’t want to be associated with them in any way.

It is extremely difficult to find high quality educators and experienced traders in this industry who have a true desire to help people, that value honesty and integrity above profit, and are willing and able to take extremely valuable time out of their schedule to lecture to our members. On top of that, as a trader myself, I must often allow a webinar on a topic or a style of trading that I don’t personally believe in, but that I believe the community as a whole would still benefit from (for example, scalping). It is difficult to balance these things, but we do our best.

In the past, a few mistakes have been made where a vendor was permitted to do a webinar, and then after-the-fact I realized it was a mistake, or they violated our no self-promotion rule. I’m not perfect, and don’t pretend to be. I just do the best I can, always doing what I feel is best for our community. In one example, the webinar was removed from the site because the vendor had such a bad reputation. In other examples, the presenter was simply never invited back .

Unfortunately, most of the so called educators or “mentors” out there focus on making false promises and posting fancy Excel spreadsheets showing how “easy” it is to make money – often charging ridiculous amounts of money to learn their “secret”. Even more unfortunate, there are enough new traders or “new blood” for these dishonest vendors to survive on this type of deception, preying on these rookie traders that simply don’t know any better. The number of “trading rooms” that provide so called “signals” is proof of this problem, leading uneducated rookie traders down the wrong path and causing a sort of never ending loop where traders spend all their time and resources on finding a new trading room, instead of focusing within and working through their problems that are holding back their performance. It is human nature to reach outward for a solution you are struggling to solve yourself -- but to be a good trader, you have to compete against the best traders in the world that figured out a long time ago there is no shortcut, and most of the answers come from within, with due time and gained experience (usually at quite a price).

On FIO, our priority is to be a unique community where we help traders while providing a friendly, constructive and positive feedback environment. I place a great deal of emphasis on encouraging traders to create their own trading journal on the site, because I believe the process of journaling their trades will open their eyes to the true problems they are facing, and allow them to tackle them one by one over time. I have written about this extensively over the years, and I believe that anyone out there right now that is struggling as a trader should take note of what I am saying – start a public journal today, start holding yourself accountable and stop looking to others to solve your problems. If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. Like I said, there are no shortcuts in trading.

I spend a lot of time moderating the forum so that the very tiny percentage of troubled users that stoop to childish behavior don’t ruin the environment for everyone else. Many of you have witnessed how quickly negativity can spread, and if you visit other trading websites you’ll most likely see this type of behavior running rampant. I started the forum 7 years ago because I strongly disliked the options available to me as a trader, because I wanted to spend time in a community surrounded by my peers but couldn’t that so much of the content on the sites was just childish behavior. The signal-to-noise ratio was terrible, and I thought I could do better. Thus, our community was born and I am extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished together.

Why am I stating all of this? Recently there has been a lively discussion about Al Brooks on the forum, and I wanted to address some of it here.

Some members believe they can only learn something from a trader that makes money. At face value that seems to make a lot of sense. But, I would beg to differ. I believe I am in a unique position as the forum administrator, because I get to see the patterns of tens of thousands of users. Over the past 7 years of running the site, I’ve read hundreds of thousands of posts, and statistics would suggest that many of them were not written by profitable traders . Yet, I am a far better trader today than I was before I started the forum, because I’ve learned what the common mistakes and common patterns are from traders that both lose money as well as make money. I firmly believe there is great value in learning from failure, just as there is in learning from success. I personally believe that traders that say there is no value in learning anything from someone that doesn’t have a proven track record of success, are really just using it as an excuse so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own trading. It is far easier to blame others for your failures, for example blaming someone that taught you a bad or unprofitable method – instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

In a similar light, some members want proof of success by way of trading statements. Some of them have said you wouldn’t hire a plumber or a roofer that had no proven track record at their job, or you wouldn’t hire a doctor with no valid license, so why would you hire a mentor that has no proven track record in trading? Again, at face value that sounds logical. But life is rarely that black and white, and trading is certainly no exception. Ultimately, that is a decision you will have to make on your own, and like most things in trading, it is going to be based on your own beliefs which is going to provide a bias with your decision. My opinion is as I’ve already stated, that quite frankly you should stop chasing vendors to provide some sort of blanket “solution” such as making you a profitable trader. You will not find success in some shortcut such as trying to copy someone else’s methodology. Instead, you need to look at each vendor, indicator, trading room, webinar, etc, as a resource to help you address a specific problem you’ve already identified in your own trading. For example, if you are a scalper you can still find value in listening to a webinar from a swing trader, if you keep an open mind and add some key component to your own trading, instead of trying to just replicate someone else’s behavior.

Here are some questions for Al, so that he can make a comment or a statement. I hope that you consider everything I’ve said above when listening to Al’s answers.

1. Do you tell your students that you are a successful trader, and that you trade for a living, making money from your trading?
2. Do you offer any proof?
3. Anything you would like to add?

Thanks,
Mike

Yes. Ask him flat out for proof that he trades what he teaches in a live account and that he trades it profitably.

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  #305 (permalink)
 dstrader 
Chicago, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TS, NT, TOS, SSE, IRT
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Thanks: 329 given, 273 received

I couldn't watch the webinar. What were his answers?

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  #306 (permalink)
 teee 
Sydney Australia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG,NinjaTrader
Trading: Oil, ES, Bund, Currencies
 
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,



I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.



As most of you know, we work extremely hard to provide the highest quality content to our members. I am constantly approached by vendors and I turn down 90% of them, because I don’t believe the content of the webinar would be beneficial to our members. That also could mean the reputation of the vendor is not good, and we don’t want to be associated with them in any way.



It is extremely difficult to find high quality educators and experienced traders in this industry who have a true desire to help people, that value honesty and integrity above profit, and are willing and able to take extremely valuable time out of their schedule to lecture to our members. On top of that, as a trader myself, I must often allow a webinar on a topic or a style of trading that I don’t personally believe in, but that I believe the community as a whole would still benefit from (for example, scalping). It is difficult to balance these things, but we do our best.



In the past, a few mistakes have been made where a vendor was permitted to do a webinar, and then after-the-fact I realized it was a mistake, or they violated our no self-promotion rule. I’m not perfect, and don’t pretend to be. I just do the best I can, always doing what I feel is best for our community. In one example, the webinar was removed from the site because the vendor had such a bad reputation. In other examples, the presenter was simply never invited back .



Unfortunately, most of the so called educators or “mentors” out there focus on making false promises and posting fancy Excel spreadsheets showing how “easy” it is to make money – often charging ridiculous amounts of money to learn their “secret”. Even more unfortunate, there are enough new traders or “new blood” for these dishonest vendors to survive on this type of deception, preying on these rookie traders that simply don’t know any better. The number of “trading rooms” that provide so called “signals” is proof of this problem, leading uneducated rookie traders down the wrong path and causing a sort of never ending loop where traders spend all their time and resources on finding a new trading room, instead of focusing within and working through their problems that are holding back their performance. It is human nature to reach outward for a solution you are struggling to solve yourself -- but to be a good trader, you have to compete against the best traders in the world that figured out a long time ago there is no shortcut, and most of the answers come from within, with due time and gained experience (usually at quite a price).



On FIO, our priority is to be a unique community where we help traders while providing a friendly, constructive and positive feedback environment. I place a great deal of emphasis on encouraging traders to create their own trading journal on the site, because I believe the process of journaling their trades will open their eyes to the true problems they are facing, and allow them to tackle them one by one over time. I have written about this extensively over the years, and I believe that anyone out there right now that is struggling as a trader should take note of what I am saying – start a public journal today, start holding yourself accountable and stop looking to others to solve your problems. If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. Like I said, there are no shortcuts in trading.



I spend a lot of time moderating the forum so that the very tiny percentage of troubled users that stoop to childish behavior don’t ruin the environment for everyone else. Many of you have witnessed how quickly negativity can spread, and if you visit other trading websites you’ll most likely see this type of behavior running rampant. I started the forum 7 years ago because I strongly disliked the options available to me as a trader, because I wanted to spend time in a community surrounded by my peers but couldn’t that so much of the content on the sites was just childish behavior. The signal-to-noise ratio was terrible, and I thought I could do better. Thus, our community was born and I am extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished together.



Why am I stating all of this? Recently there has been a lively discussion about Al Brooks on the forum, and I wanted to address some of it here.



Some members believe they can only learn something from a trader that makes money. At face value that seems to make a lot of sense. But, I would beg to differ. I believe I am in a unique position as the forum administrator, because I get to see the patterns of tens of thousands of users. Over the past 7 years of running the site, I’ve read hundreds of thousands of posts, and statistics would suggest that many of them were not written by profitable traders . Yet, I am a far better trader today than I was before I started the forum, because I’ve learned what the common mistakes and common patterns are from traders that both lose money as well as make money. I firmly believe there is great value in learning from failure, just as there is in learning from success. I personally believe that traders that say there is no value in learning anything from someone that doesn’t have a proven track record of success, are really just using it as an excuse so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own trading. It is far easier to blame others for your failures, for example blaming someone that taught you a bad or unprofitable method – instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.



In a similar light, some members want proof of success by way of trading statements. Some of them have said you wouldn’t hire a plumber or a roofer that had no proven track record at their job, or you wouldn’t hire a doctor with no valid license, so why would you hire a mentor that has no proven track record in trading? Again, at face value that sounds logical. But life is rarely that black and white, and trading is certainly no exception. Ultimately, that is a decision you will have to make on your own, and like most things in trading, it is going to be based on your own beliefs which is going to provide a bias with your decision. My opinion is as I’ve already stated, that quite frankly you should stop chasing vendors to provide some sort of blanket “solution” such as making you a profitable trader. You will not find success in some shortcut such as trying to copy someone else’s methodology. Instead, you need to look at each vendor, indicator, trading room, webinar, etc, as a resource to help you address a specific problem you’ve already identified in your own trading. For example, if you are a scalper you can still find value in listening to a webinar from a swing trader, if you keep an open mind and add some key component to your own trading, instead of trying to just replicate someone


This post is an absolute gem. People on the other side should really reread this post couple of times...

Thanks again to BM for everything!


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  #307 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016


dstrader View Post
I couldn't watch the webinar. What were his answers?

Same here. Anyone?

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  #308 (permalink)
 trademe1 
State College, Pa U.S.A.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader,Sierra Chart
Trading: NQ CL ES
 
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Posts: 54 since Aug 2014
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.


It is extremely difficult to find high quality educators and experienced traders in this industry who have a true desire to help people, that value honesty and integrity above profit, and are willing and able to take extremely valuable time out of their schedule to lecture to our members. On top of that, as a trader myself, I must often allow a webinar on a topic or a style of trading that I don’t personally believe in, but that I believe the community as a whole would still bedo the best I can, always doing what I feel is best for our community. In one example, the webinar was removed from the site because the vendor had such a bad reputation. In other examples, the presenter was simply never invited back .


Why am I stating all of this? Recently there has been a lively discussion about Al Brooks on the forum, and I wanted to address some of it here.

In a similar light, some members want proof of success by way of trading statements.

Here are some questions for Al, so that he can make a comment or a statement. I hope that you consider everything I’ve said above when listening to Al’s answers.

1. Do you tell your students that you are a successful trader, and that you trade for a living, making money from your trading?
2. Do you offer any proof?
3. Anything you would like to add?

Thanks,
Mike


Hi Mike,
I have been intrigued with price action trading and have seen a couple Al Brook's webinars and have read some of the traders posts on here that claim they are having success with his system/methodology and others that totally dismiss the system/methodology.

I trade using a combination of volume profile, Tick, VWAP and S/R with decent success, but am looking for that extra "edge" to help with entries and exits.

My question is, since you have seen the system/methodology evaluated and reviewed for quite some time, do you think his system is legit and if so do you think his system incorporated into my methodology would help with entries and exits ?

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but your opinion matters out here.

Thanks,
Chris

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  #309 (permalink)
 skoa 
Wolfsburg, Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Python
Broker: InteractiveBrokers
Trading: ALL the futures (and options)
 
Posts: 82 since Sep 2014
Thanks: 353 given, 52 received

Not Mike, but my experience has been that you always get this sliding scale of "it's the only thing that works" vs. "it doesn't work at all" with any trading approach. The fact of the matter is, what works for you depends a lot on your trading philosophy.

For me, there was a lot of stuff in Brook's books that provided valueable pieces of the puzzle. There are some things he claims that I don't believe, e.g. an EMA acting as dynamic support/resistance or the explanations he has dreamed up for some of the patterns in the market. But there is also a lot of good stuff in there that definitely helped me read the market bar by bar. The tl;dr of his method is "look for little clues and make a judgement call on what the market is most likely doing".

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  #310 (permalink)
 jtrade 
near Amsterdam
 
Experience: Advanced
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Trading: 6B, 6E
 
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Rory View Post
Here is a hard truth. After speaking with a couple of brokers, only people who have been taught from scratch or were noticeably successful in their careers BEFORE trading (physical injuries like me, early retirees) generally make it.

The great industry deception is that most even had a chance in the first place.

If you want fairness, Futures should be made Pro only so people have to pass regulated exams. It is a shiny ticket to heartache and bitterness for most.

This should be a compulsory warning note to any retail trader opening a trading account.

Well said, Rory.

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  #311 (permalink)
 trademe1 
State College, Pa U.S.A.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader,Sierra Chart
Trading: NQ CL ES
 
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skoa View Post
Not Mike, but my experience has been that you always get this sliding scale of "it's the only thing that works" vs. "it doesn't work at all" with any trading approach. The fact of the matter is, what works for you depends a lot on your trading philosophy.

For me, there was a lot of stuff in Brook's books that provided valueable pieces of the puzzle. There are some things he claims that I don't believe, e.g. an EMA acting as dynamic support/resistance or the explanations he has dreamed up for some of the patterns in the market. But there is also a lot of good stuff in there that definitely helped me read the market bar by bar. The tl;dr of his method is "look for little clues and make a judgement call on what the market is most likely doing".

Hi Skoa,

Thank you for the feedback! I appreciate you sharing your experience.

He does seem to have some good advise for entries on different bars and such and it all looks good on a static chart, but heck I can show good entry examples on a static chart, my problem has always been that these presenter/vendors don't do a live show and tell webinar.

When I started trading I went through the standard holy grail search for a year and found the only place you are going to find that is inside yourself with a lot of work, time and dedication. Screen time has been one of the biggest helps for me as trader. It has helped in recognizing the "personality" and patterns of the market being traded.

I am not yet 100% comfortable with an entry, but the purpose of the question is to find if Brook's methodology may add some additional clues to entries. Sounds like it may be worth watching a few more of the archived webinars.

Thanks,
Chris

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Pedro40
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So just like the Brad Pitt character in Se7en, after 10 posts since the webinar, we still don't know what was in the box...

Anyone cares to update us?


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  #313 (permalink)
 TraderSusan 
Chicago, IL/USA
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

I’ve asked Terry to read this statement on my behalf in today's webinar.

As most of you know, we work extremely hard to provide the highest quality content to our members. I am constantly approached by vendors and I turn down 90% of them, because I don’t believe the content of the webinar would be beneficial to our members. That also could mean the reputation of the vendor is not good, and we don’t want to be associated with them in any way.

It is extremely difficult to find high quality educators and experienced traders in this industry who have a true desire to help people, that value honesty and integrity above profit, and are willing and able to take extremely valuable time out of their schedule to lecture to our members. On top of that, as a trader myself, I must often allow a webinar on a topic or a style of trading that I don’t personally believe in, but that I believe the community as a whole would still benefit from (for example, scalping). It is difficult to balance these things, but we do our best.

In the past, a few mistakes have been made where a vendor was permitted to do a webinar, and then after-the-fact I realized it was a mistake, or they violated our no self-promotion rule. I’m not perfect, and don’t pretend to be. I just do the best I can, always doing what I feel is best for our community. In one example, the webinar was removed from the site because the vendor had such a bad reputation. In other examples, the presenter was simply never invited back .

Unfortunately, most of the so called educators or “mentors” out there focus on making false promises and posting fancy Excel spreadsheets showing how “easy” it is to make money – often charging ridiculous amounts of money to learn their “secret”. Even more unfortunate, there are enough new traders or “new blood” for these dishonest vendors to survive on this type of deception, preying on these rookie traders that simply don’t know any better. The number of “trading rooms” that provide so called “signals” is proof of this problem, leading uneducated rookie traders down the wrong path and causing a sort of never ending loop where traders spend all their time and resources on finding a new trading room, instead of focusing within and working through their problems that are holding back their performance. It is human nature to reach outward for a solution you are struggling to solve yourself -- but to be a good trader, you have to compete against the best traders in the world that figured out a long time ago there is no shortcut, and most of the answers come from within, with due time and gained experience (usually at quite a price).

On FIO, our priority is to be a unique community where we help traders while providing a friendly, constructive and positive feedback environment. I place a great deal of emphasis on encouraging traders to create their own trading journal on the site, because I believe the process of journaling their trades will open their eyes to the true problems they are facing, and allow them to tackle them one by one over time. I have written about this extensively over the years, and I believe that anyone out there right now that is struggling as a trader should take note of what I am saying – start a public journal today, start holding yourself accountable and stop looking to others to solve your problems. If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. Like I said, there are no shortcuts in trading.

I spend a lot of time moderating the forum so that the very tiny percentage of troubled users that stoop to childish behavior don’t ruin the environment for everyone else. Many of you have witnessed how quickly negativity can spread, and if you visit other trading websites you’ll most likely see this type of behavior running rampant. I started the forum 7 years ago because I strongly disliked the options available to me as a trader, because I wanted to spend time in a community surrounded by my peers but couldn’t that so much of the content on the sites was just childish behavior. The signal-to-noise ratio was terrible, and I thought I could do better. Thus, our community was born and I am extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished together.

Why am I stating all of this? Recently there has been a lively discussion about Al Brooks on the forum, and I wanted to address some of it here.

Some members believe they can only learn something from a trader that makes money. At face value that seems to make a lot of sense. But, I would beg to differ. I believe I am in a unique position as the forum administrator, because I get to see the patterns of tens of thousands of users. Over the past 7 years of running the site, I’ve read hundreds of thousands of posts, and statistics would suggest that many of them were not written by profitable traders . Yet, I am a far better trader today than I was before I started the forum, because I’ve learned what the common mistakes and common patterns are from traders that both lose money as well as make money. I firmly believe there is great value in learning from failure, just as there is in learning from success. I personally believe that traders that say there is no value in learning anything from someone that doesn’t have a proven track record of success, are really just using it as an excuse so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own trading. It is far easier to blame others for your failures, for example blaming someone that taught you a bad or unprofitable method – instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

In a similar light, some members want proof of success by way of trading statements. Some of them have said you wouldn’t hire a plumber or a roofer that had no proven track record at their job, or you wouldn’t hire a doctor with no valid license, so why would you hire a mentor that has no proven track record in trading? Again, at face value that sounds logical. But life is rarely that black and white, and trading is certainly no exception. Ultimately, that is a decision you will have to make on your own, and like most things in trading, it is going to be based on your own beliefs which is going to provide a bias with your decision. My opinion is as I’ve already stated, that quite frankly you should stop chasing vendors to provide some sort of blanket “solution” such as making you a profitable trader. You will not find success in some shortcut such as trying to copy someone else’s methodology. Instead, you need to look at each vendor, indicator, trading room, webinar, etc, as a resource to help you address a specific problem you’ve already identified in your own trading. For example, if you are a scalper you can still find value in listening to a webinar from a swing trader, if you keep an open mind and add some key component to your own trading, instead of trying to just replicate someone else’s behavior.

Here are some questions for Al, so that he can make a comment or a statement. I hope that you consider everything I’ve said above when listening to Al’s answers.

1. Do you tell your students that you are a successful trader, and that you trade for a living, making money from your trading?
2. Do you offer any proof?
3. Anything you would like to add?

Thanks,
Mike



Here is the big difference. Al Crooks, I mean Brooks has made specific claims of trading profitably over the years.

I hear members talking about posters pivoting, but it is only the “Pro” Al Brooks supporters that I see pivoting from the actual issue at hand.
First where those 3 question even asked of Al during the Webinar. Without ever seeing the webinar, I can answer the question. I will wager money Al never showed any proof of his claims. At best, he may have pivoted and put it back on the members like other posters here have done. Typically trickery by most of the TR operators.

One of the best pivots here is where it does not matter if Al trades profitable as they have been able to use Al’s teaching to help them. Interesting how neither Al nor any of those poster can show proof of those claims. The fact is a lot of members here are Vendors or associated with vendors and have an agenda to push Al and the fact that Al cannot trade profitable is not something that helps them sell SW or other products.

Before the “Pro” Al supporters pivot as usual they first need to answer the REAL question. Why does Al refuse to show any proof of his claims of being a profitable trader? The answer is given to us by Occam's razor. Wise men will understand it. Of course if you did not ban folks for simple demanding Al show proof of his claims you might get more posters on that side of the equation. You notice no "Pro" Al person was banned.

So I encourage a Poll with a simple question, "Should Al Brooks have to show proof of his claims as a profitable trader before being allowed to do another webinar here"

And please "Pro" Al supporters answer that question first before pivoting to another question.

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 Michaelktrader 
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"Those who cant do, teach."

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 Big Mike 
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  #316 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Why do I get the impression that @TraderSusan is a fake account?

Bla bla necessary posts to hit 10, nearly all one liners, nothing about trading and straight to this topic with a huge post.

edit: Ok just went black as I posted so someone else thinks the same? Two are not connected

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emini2000
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TraderSusan View Post
Here is the big difference. Al Crooks, I mean Brooks has made specific claims of trading profitably over the years.

So I encourage a Poll with a simple question, "Should Al Brooks have to show proof of his claims as a profitable trader before being allowed to do another webinar here?"

I agree with Mike that "Some members believe they can only learn something from a trader that makes money" and that isn't necessarily so. And if Al presents himself as an educator only, then there's no need for proof. BUT, that isn't the point where Al is concerned.

IF Al has made specific claims 'of trading profitably over the years' then he needs to put up or shut up. And if he doesn't put up, then I don't think he should be doing webinars here. It's just that simple. And I'd be disappointed in Mike for allowing it to continue if Al makes claims of profitability and won't show definitive proof. If he hasn't made claims of being a profitable trader, then no big deal.

And no one has still said here what his response was.

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  #318 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Rory View Post
Why do I get the impression that @TraderSusan is a fake account?

Bla bla necessary posts to hit 10, nearly all one liners, nothing about trading and straight to this topic with a huge post.

edit: Ok just went black as I posted so someone else thinks the same? Two are not connected



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  #319 (permalink)
 JimB17 
Bend, Or USA
 
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I just happened to join FIO yesterday about an hour before the Al Brooks webinar and listened to the webinar. Have been trading for a long time though.

Have been studying and reading his books, the video course currently out and looking forward to his new and improved video course. He has seemed like the real deal. This for some time for me.

At the same time spent a couple/three months in his room listening to him and he seemed to miss a lot of what the market was saying, like missing trends and such. This seemed baffling to me as watching it myself obvious what was happening.

His response during the webinar to the questions asked by Big Mike seemed less than satisfactory.

According to his room he uses Tradestation but IB as a broker. Certainly without looking at any individual trades one would expect comparing his bottom line account month to month would be reasonable. One would expect no added money but higher trend over time. Number of trades might be interesting but no exact info needed.

Personally until he does this at least in a macro sense I will not return to his material further.

His overall material uses a lot of different names and anyone studying it would probably be better to look at Wyckoff if they can find that material.

I will be interested to see how Big Mike handles all this. This forum seems pretty honorable hope it is useful to my skills over time.

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 Big Mike 
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 Big Mike 
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 Big Mike 
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I hope you guys can see how just one troll user (rwbil) can create drama by pretending to be multiple people. One of his duplicate accounts was around for a couple years, a failure on my part to catch him until today.

Mike

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  #323 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016

And after all this drama with fake users, bans etc..

DID AL B. ANSWERED BM 3 QUESTIONS? Acceptable answers? On the record as trading Live account?

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 jtrade 
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IzhakHaim View Post
And after all this drama with fake users, bans etc..

DID AL B. ANSWERED BM 3 QUESTIONS? Acceptable answers? On the record as trading Live account?

@Big Mike ... Mike, I think this is a fair question under the (most unfortunate) circumstances : what is you take on Al's response, please ?

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 RichardHK 
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trademe1 View Post
... ... I am not yet 100% comfortable with an entry, but the purpose of the question is to find if Brook's methodology may add some additional clues to entries. Sounds like it may be worth watching a few more of the archived webinars.
Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I look after Al's trading course website and put up an "Ask Al" extract from Al's trading room every Sunday. Already 88 such posts using either video or audio clips to answer trader questions at end of the day's trading. They have proved to be very popular as they cover a lot of diverse price action and trading topics. Anybody wanting a good insight into Al's methodology can watch/listen to/read these posts.

Here is link to the Ask Al Brooks archive.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,
Richard
Aka BTC Admin

Richard
Hong Kong
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 sixtyseven 
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He said he doesn't disclose his trades because he doesn't want to be subjected to NFA audits.

That is a lame answer.

If he was ever audited he would spend 5 mins forwarding his statements via email. Job done.

My assumption if I was to ever look at his stuff would be that he doesn't make money.

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  #327 (permalink)
 RichardHK 
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TraderSusan View Post
... ...So I encourage a Poll with a simple question, "Should Al Brooks have to show proof of his claims as a profitable trader before being allowed to do another webinar here"
And please "Pro" Al supporters answer that question first before pivoting to another question.

Certainly not. With the high number of unstable folk around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting unstable folk, I would not want anyone to know if I was making good money trading. Plenty of lottery winners around who have destroyed their lives disclosing their wealth, and being harassed wherever they go, worrying about their kids at school being bullied or even kidnapped, etc... Not worth the risk. Life is too valuable.

Privacy in this day and age is important. So how about you Susan? If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.

Richard
Hong Kong
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 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
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sixtyseven View Post
He said he doesn't disclose his trades because he doesn't want to be subjected to NFA audits.

That is a lame answer.

If he was ever audited he would spend 5 mins forwarding his statements via email. Job done.

My assumption if I was to ever look at his stuff would be that he doesn't make money.

He can be subject to NFA audit ONLY if his firm is a member.........Nothing to do with showing or not trading accounts.

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  #329 (permalink)
 Redhouse 
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I listened to incomplete answers and noted how he moved things along so there would be no follow up, turned off the video and made myself a peanut butter rice cake, without thinking further about it.


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  #330 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
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RichardHK View Post
Certainly not. With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots, I would not want anyone to know if I was making good money trading. Plenty of lottery winners around who have destroyed their lives disclosing their wealth, and being harassed wherever they go, worrying about their kids at school being bullied or even kidnapped, etc... Not worth the risk. Life is too valuable.

Privacy in this day and age is important. So how about you Susan? If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.

"and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots"

Not nice name calling.....

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 IzhakHaim 
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Redhouse View Post
I listened to incomplete answers and noted how he moved things along so there would be no follow up, turned off the video and made myself a peanut butter rice cake, without thinking further about it.


Sent from my iPad using futures.io mobile app


"incomplete answers and noted how he moved things along so there would be no follow up"

Thank you, crystal clear!

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  #332 (permalink)
 Cerberus 
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jtrade View Post

[Rory

If you want fairness, Futures should be made Pro only so people have to pass regulated exams. It is a shiny ticket to heartache and bitterness for most.]


This should be a compulsory warning note to any retail trader opening a trading account.

Well said, Rory.

Absolutely disagree, our society is over-regulated as it is, we are considered too stupid to think for ourselves by the so much smarter law makers and regulators.

You want "regulated" (by whom? SEC?) exams for futures trading? Next step people have to pass exams before they enter a casino or an online gambling betting site?

It is everybody's free choice if and how they want to blow their money, gambling, betting or futures trading. After passing the regulated exam and then blowing their money anyway at least they can blame the government. After all we need somebody/something to blame. I guess that would be the "fairness" part.


As for Dr AL I don't follow his method per se but I listen to his presentations, there is always a help-and insightful snippet or two.
Does he trade his own account? I think he does but I don't know and I don't care. And if I knew for certain that he makes large amounts of $ every month, it would not change how I use/consider his ideas.

`

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  #333 (permalink)
Pedro40
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Boy oh boy, aren't we in Lame Excuse Territory already...


RichardHK View Post
If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.

You know money can buy security, among other things...

We would love to see if our mentor is making a good living and not because of the subscription fees. But as I mentioned earlier, a show account with a small amount traded would do just fine as credibility goes, we don't need to see a 7 digits account...

So please stop the lame excuses, that is just hurting your case. His non-answer was very predictable:


Pedro40 View Post
A hundred bucks say that he will say yes, he trades real money, yes, he is profitable, but no, he can't show proof because of reasons and blah-blah-blah.

In short, nothing is going to be settled after the webinar, so you guys shouldn't get your hopes that high...

Hey, at least we know now what was in the box....

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 trademe1 
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RichardHK View Post
Certainly not. With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots, I would not want anyone to know if I was making good money trading. Plenty of lottery winners around who have destroyed their lives disclosing their wealth, and being harassed wherever they go, worrying about their kids at school being bullied or even kidnapped, etc... Not worth the risk. Life is too valuable.

Privacy in this day and age is important. So how about you Susan? If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.

Richard,

Thank you for the information you posted regarding Al's website.

I do not take offense to comments easily, but I do take offense to your statement "With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots"

That statement is in no way justified to describe my Country .

Have a nice day.

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  #335 (permalink)
 dk27 
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But he already claims he makes good money trading. Are you the same Richard that promotes Brooks in Hong Kong?



RichardHK View Post
Certainly not. With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots, I would not want anyone to know if I was making good money trading. Plenty of lottery winners around who have destroyed their lives disclosing their wealth, and being harassed wherever they go, worrying about their kids at school being bullied or even kidnapped, etc... Not worth the risk. Life is too valuable.

Privacy in this day and age is important. So how about you Susan? If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.


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  #336 (permalink)
 pvlee 
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RichardHK View Post
Certainly not. With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots, I would not want anyone to know if I was making good money trading. Plenty of lottery winners around who have destroyed their lives disclosing their wealth, and being harassed wherever they go, worrying about their kids at school being bullied or even kidnapped, etc... Not worth the risk. Life is too valuable.

Privacy in this day and age is important. So how about you Susan? If you were making a very good living from trading, would you want others to know how much, and then worry about your own and families safety? I would hope not.

This is silly.

I think if Al was to show @Big Mike his last 6 months brokerage statements and Mike confirmed they were genuine and that Al makes decent money then most people would be reassured and may well pay for Al's tuition

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emini2000
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sixtyseven View Post
He said he doesn't disclose his trades because he doesn't want to be subjected to NFA audits.

That is a lame answer.

If he was ever audited he would spend 5 mins forwarding his statements via email. Job done.

My assumption if I was to ever look at his stuff would be that he doesn't make money.


Redhouse View Post
I listened to incomplete answers and noted how he moved things along so there would be no follow up, turned off the video and made myself a peanut butter rice cake, without thinking further about it.


Sent from my iPad using futures.io mobile app


IzhakHaim View Post
"incomplete answers and noted how he moved things along so there would be no follow up"

Thank you, crystal clear!


Quoting 
A hundred bucks say that he will say yes, he trades real money, yes, he is profitable, but no, he can't show proof because of reasons and blah-blah-blah.

In short, nothing is going to be settled after the webinar, so you guys shouldn't get your hopes that high...

The NFA audit thing and similar answers have been debunked by many. As a matter of fact CFTC uses the information that Emmett comes up with to help prosecute the scammers. He works hand in hand with them since he's gathering the info anyway. And the CFTC has told Emmett that the more disclosure the better and the includes verifiable statements. They WANT full verifiable disclosure.

I can guarantee you 99.9% he doesn't trade an account profitably. Heck, if I was a successful trader running a room I'd proudly display what I made. What better way to get more customers for my room?

Unfortunately his answers were about what I expected. The more things change the more they stay the same. Nobody will hold them accountable. This really disappoints me.

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  #338 (permalink)
 RichardHK 
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trademe1 View Post
... ...I do not take offense to comments easily, but I do take offense to your statement "With the high number of idiots around these days, and it you live in the US, make that gun-toting idiots"
That statement is in no way justified to describe my Country .
Have a nice day.

Yes, I apologize for the poor choice of words. Our son lives in New York and I would love to live and trade from Arizona!

Richard
Hong Kong
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 RichardHK 
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dk27 View Post
But he already claims he makes good money trading. Are you the same Richard that promotes Brooks in Hong Kong?

Yes, but I do not promote Al in Hong Kong. A local trading group approached me to arrange a visit by Al, but not yet happened. They also asked me to deliver some basic price action seminars which I was happy to do. Nothing more.

I manage Al's trading course website, which is how they found me.

Richard
Aka BTC Admin

Richard
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 RichardHK 
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Pedro40 View Post
Boy oh boy, aren't we in Lame Excuse Territory already...
So please stop the lame excuses, that is just hurting your case. His non-answer was very predictable:
Hey, at least we know now what was in the box....

Hi Pedro,

Just to be clear, I was giving MY reasons for not disclosing trading results. I am not giving Al's reasons which he made clear in webinar and elsewhere himself.

Wishing you all good trading, with whatever system works for you.

Richard
Hong Kong
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 RichardHK 
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mrmuggins View Post
@RichardHK please stop being a shill

Hopeless... I shall not say anymore here.

Richard
Hong Kong
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Pedro40
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emini2000 View Post
I can guarantee you 99.9% he doesn't trade an account profitably.

I think the truth is more nuanced then that. Could be:

1. Big return on small account. Let's say he makes 100% on a 20K account. Very good return, but doesn't help with the "I trade for a living" narrative. Specially when he makes the multiple of that from trading education.

2. Small return on big account. Let's say he is up 12% on a 6 figure account. That is what the market did this year, so matching the market doesn't make subscribers all wet and excited.

Anyhow, we got our expected non-answer answer, so this topic could rest in peace....

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  #343 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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Whether or not anyone in Al Brooks' position is a successful trader isn't really the point, anyway.

Plenty of members have now given their own personal persectives, in this thread.

My own perspective is that the money I've steadily learned to make as a result of having followed his work and teaching is something I won't ever have to give back just because others here suspect that Dr. Brooks may not himself be a successful trader.

Whenever and wherever it's discussed, there always seem to be quite a lot of traders who share this perspective, too.

Someone (unlike myself, of course) who's a real cynic might even suspect that in general, the more unsure people are of themselves, the more likely they are to believe and to suggest that other people aren't "real traders" - and perhaps even that the less sure of themselves they are, the more insistent and vociferous they're likely to be about that.

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  #344 (permalink)
 pramadas 
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Here is my take. If Al were successful why would he need a petty amount of 200 dollars a month for his chat room, which is month to month. Since he doesn't know when he will stop it. That month to month has been going on since 2009. A long time to decide he wants to retire. I am sure he makes money but it may not be enough. For if he made millions he would be managing money for others to make billions. IMHO people who have trading room dont make enough so they use trading room as an additional income.

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 Anagami 
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pramadas View Post
Here is my take. If Al were successful why would he need a petty amount of 200 dollars a month for his chat room, which is month to month. Since he doesn't know when he will stop it. That month to month has been going on since 2009. A long time to decide he wants to retire. I am sure he makes money but it may not be enough. For if he made millions he would be managing money for others to make billions. IMHO people who have trading room dont make enough so they use trading room as an additional income.

How dare you insinuate that a BMT-paid speaker could be a charlatan!

Brooks' unwillingness to reveal his trading records indeed reeks of BS.... however, lot of his materials are useful. Also, I cannot imagine anyone explaining the market behavior in such convoluted ways just to make a buck.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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 pramadas 
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Anagami View Post
How dare you insinuate that a BMT-paid speaker could be a charlatan!

Brooks' unwillingness to reveal his trading records indeed reeks of BS.... however, lot of his materials are useful. Also, I cannot imagine anyone explaining the market behavior in such convoluted ways just to make a buck.

Dont get me wrong. Some of the stuff al talks about makes sense. I think BMT is doing a good job. Infact he should get more of them here. Eventually we may get someone here who makes and lot of money and is willing to teach us.
On this site from what i have seen, Big Mike, Inlet, MM, rory are few old timers making money. They dont have a trading room. I would love to have one of them to have a trading room that is reasonable and show their P&L. the problem is the moment someone opens a trading room they have the pressure of being positive so they dont trade the same way as they normally do. Also one more thing, a trading room that only trade from 9-11 or 9-5 are missing out on the good opportunities during other sessions. the reason one trades future is not only leverage, but the fact u can trade them almost 24 hrs. Especially those that trade from 9-11.

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 Anagami 
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pramadas View Post
Dont get me wrong. Some of the stuff al talks about makes sense. I think BMT is doing a good job. Infact he should get more of them here. Eventually we may get someone here who makes and lot of money and is willing to teach us.
On this site from what i have seen, Big Mike, Inlet, MM, rory are few old timers making money. They dont have a trading room. I would love to have one of them to have a trading room that is reasonable and show their P&L. the problem is the moment someone opens a trading room they have the pressure of being positive so they dont trade the same way as they normally do. Also one more thing, a trading room that only trade from 9-11 or 9-5 are missing out on the good opportunities during other sessions. the reason one trades future is not only leverage, but the fact u can trade them almost 24 hrs. Especially those that trade from 9-11.

The thing is, buddy, that nobody can become successful for you. You have to take 100% responsibility for your trading and results. It's not about Brooks/Crooks, this guy or that guy, winner or loser, honest or not. Hand-holding, even if somebody who is profitable would be willing to do it, would NOT work.... because success is a function of your own mind, and only of your own mind.

You are both your own problem.... and your own solution.
And to me that actually means that the glass is half-full, because the ball is always in your court.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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 pramadas 
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Anagami View Post
The thing is, buddy, that nobody can become successful for you. You have to take 100% responsibility for your trading and results. It's not about Brooks/Crooks, this guy or that guy, winner or loser, honest or not. Hand-holding, even if somebody who is profitable would be willing to do it, would NOT work.... because success is a function of your own mind, and only of your own mind.

You are both your own problem.... and your own solution.
And to me that actually means that the glass is half-full, because the ball is always in your court.

agreed!!

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  #349 (permalink)
 dayman 
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I have followed Al for 3+ years (trading room on and off, read portions of the books and watched the video course). I think what frustrates most people is his perceived "indecisiveness" and complex price action principles.

Everyone seems to want a system that is easy to follow and is black and white. Al does not sell a system, and it is far from black and white. In his trading room he lays out the bull and bear case throughout the day and this can be frustrating to many as they want more certainty. He is very straight forward about what to expect in his trading room prior to signing up.

I find it odd that some people on here attack him and call him a crook. You can disagree with his approach, market view, or teaching style and that is 100% fine with me. The guy is selling a course for $350 and makes no guarantees of success or future profitability. If I had to guess, I would think many of his more adamant dissenters are those who want instant gratification and do not want to put in the work that is necessary to become a profitable trader (or who refuse to accept responsibility for their own trading losses).

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  #350 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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@Anagami stop with the childish name calling "Crooks". Debate, disagree, discuss -- all welcome -- but be professional.

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 Anagami 
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Big Mike View Post
@Anagami stop with the childish name calling "Crooks". Debate, disagree, discuss -- all welcome -- but be professional.

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Wow... I see that I am really pushing some buttons, so I will sign off on the discussion here.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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 Big Mike 
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Anagami View Post
Wow... I see that I am really pushing some buttons, so I will sign off on the discussion here.

Not at all. Just asking you to refrain from name calling. There is no need to stop posting, so long as you keep it civil

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  #353 (permalink)
 KelvinKing 
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I really don't see what the debate here is all about. Al is simply trying to generate some form of "stable" income (through books and courses) in a business that we clearly (hopefully) know is anything but.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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KelvinKing View Post
I really don't see what the debate here is all about. Al is simply trying to generate some form of "stable" income (through books and courses) in a business that we clearly (hopefully) know is anything but.

The debate is whether or not the person offering the product is being honest or not.

Nothing wrong with selling education (I do it myself), but lying about your profitably to sell product is illegal, immoral and unethical. I'm not implying anything about this Al guy, but that is what people are questioning - is he misrepresenting his own trading to sell stuff?

The fact is most trading vendors claim to be wildly profitable in their own trading accounts, when in many (most?) cases that is an outright lie.

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 pvlee 
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@Big Mike, I think it would be a good idea if you were to give any vendor producing a webinar the option of providing you with sight of their last 6 months brokerage statements. This would be purely optional but you could give the thumbs up if you believe them to show profitability.

I certainly would not be interested in wasting my time watching anything that didn't come with a thumbs up from you.

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emini2000
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pvlee View Post
@Big Mike, I think it would be a good idea if you were to give any vendor producing a webinar the option of providing you with sight of their last 6 months brokerage statements. This would be purely optional but you could give the thumbs up if you believe them to show profitability.

I certainly would not be interested in wasting my time watching anything that didn't come with a thumbs up from you.

Not a bad idea IF the vendor is claiming to be a profitable trader/making a living from trading. And ask them if they are making that claim.

I agree wit Mike that a trader doesn't have to necessarily be a profitable trader to learn from them. But, if they are making the claim of profitability, then they should produce the proof

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 pvlee 
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It does amaze me that a person could believe they are qualified to teach/mentor other traders when the very methods they are teaching are totally unsuccessful.

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  #358 (permalink)
 dayman 
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pvlee View Post
It does amaze me that a person could believe they are qualified to teach/mentor other traders when the very methods they are teaching are totally unsuccessful.

Care to elaborate on this definitive conclusion? The thread is basing their opinion on Al on the fact that he has not provided brokerage statements, yet you make the accusation his methods are "totally unsuccessful" without providing any evidence. Ironic.

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 pvlee 
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I must have posted this in the wrong thread, it was supposed to be a generic statement. I have no idea if Al is successful or not. He is certainly not telling

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emini2000
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pvlee View Post
I must have posted this in the wrong thread, it was supposed to be a generic statement. I have no idea if Al is successful or not. He is certainly not telling

That's because he's not successful.

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 webradio 
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Al suggests beginners to consider SPY ETF, because one can practice trading with position size as small as necessary.
I wonder if a CFD from my NDD broker would also be ok for this purpose. They claim to offer an average spread of 0.4 points during market hours.


Sure, I don't know if my broker accurately copies underlying ticks or simply follows price changes. On the other side, I haven't seen volume on Al's example charts anyhow, nor anything else but classic time-based bars, so why ever bothering about inaccurateness of CFD vs future or ETF.

To put my question in a context. I'm starting very small, so futures are currently out of my reach. Forex is perfectly (down-)scalable but offers fewer good setups during the day, according to Al. And his "you should consider trading SPY, the S&P 500 ETF ... There are usually about 3 - 6 of them a day and all you really need to do is catch about one a day" sounds promising for learning phase.

In a hope to steer this thread back to the technical side, have a good coming week, everybody...

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 dayman 
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pvlee View Post
I must have posted this in the wrong thread, it was supposed to be a generic statement. I have no idea if Al is successful or not. He is certainly not telling

Very responsible of you to make an accusation without having any idea of what you are responding to.

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 IzhakHaim 
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If someone comes here to teach, that beautiful. We all can learn something from someone.

If someone comes here to teach and claims to be doing what he preaches and making a living from it, he should be vetted before doing any presentation.
If not, it may be misleading new traders since by BM let him do it here its like giving a thumb up for the vendor re his credentials and if not verified, may be a try to lure beginners to his room with false claims.

I do not think he can have it both ways.

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emini2000
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IzhakHaim View Post
If someone comes here to teach, that beautiful. We all can learn something from someone.

If someone comes here to teach and claims to be doing what he preaches and making a living from it, he should be vetted before doing any presentation.
If not, it may be misleading new traders since by BM let him do it here its like giving a thumb up for the vendor re his credentials and if not verified, may be a try to lure beginners to his room with false claims.

I do not think he can have it both ways cannot have it both way.

Agreed.

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 dayman 
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emini2000 View Post
Agreed.

You are very outspoken against Al in this thread, but have not laid out a case of why he is a fraud. Would you mind expanding on your view? Is it because he does not provide brokerage statements? If that is the case, why does it matter so much to you? You seem to be wasting more time making contentless posts bashing someone who you feel is a fraud than trying to improve fellow BMT traders who you are trying to stand up for.

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  #366 (permalink)
emini2000
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dayman View Post
You are very outspoken against Al in this thread, but have not laid out a case of why he is a fraud. Would you mind expanding on your view? Is it because he does not provide brokerage statements? If that is the case, why does it matter so much to you? You seem to be wasting more time making contentless posts bashing someone who you feel is a fraud than trying to improve fellow BMT traders who you are trying to stand up for.

I have plenty of posts in this thread concerning my views on this.

And it matters so much to me because this industry is rife with frauds taking people's money. Maybe you haven't been screwed as many times as I have and others that have been trading for years have. He's claiming to be a profitable trader. Then there is no problem proving it if you are. Instead lame excuses about audits, etc, if he does which are totally false. Put up or shut up if you're gonna claim to be a profitable trader. And so far he has refused. That speaks for itself.

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  #367 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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dayman View Post
You are very outspoken against Al in this thread, but have not laid out a case of why he is a fraud. Would you mind expanding on your view? Is it because he does not provide brokerage statements? If that is the case, why does it matter so much to you? You seem to be wasting more time making contentless posts bashing someone who you feel is a fraud than trying to improve fellow BMT traders who you are trying to stand up for.

dayman,

No one say he is a fraud or not. You will let me teach you to drive a truck without make sure u see me driving it??

Just read what I said above:

"If someone comes here to teach, that beautiful. We all can learn something from someone.

If someone comes here to teach and claims to be doing what he preaches and making a living from it, he should be vetted before doing any presentation.
If not, it may be misleading new traders since by BM let him do it here its like giving a thumb up for the vendor re his credentials and if not verified, may be a try to lure beginners to his room with false claims.

I do not think he can have it both ways."

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emini2000
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IzhakHaim View Post
dayman,

No one say he is a fraud or not. You will let me teach you to drive a truck without make sure u see me driving it??

Just read what I said above:

"If someone comes here to teach, that beautiful. We all can learn something from someone.

If someone comes here to teach and claims to be doing what he preaches and making a living from it, he should be vetted before doing any presentation.
If not, it may be misleading new traders since by BM let him do it here its like giving a thumb up for the vendor re his credentials and if not verified, may be a try to lure beginners to his room with false claims.

I do not think he can have it both ways."

Exactly. I don't see why this is so hard to see.

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 dayman 
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emini2000 View Post
Exactly. I don't see why this is so hard to see.

But your last reply about 3 hour ago you did call him a fraud:


emini2000 View Post
That's because he's not successful.

For the last time, you can disagree with his (Al's) trading process, his teaching philosophy, or BMT's vetting process for educators. I have never spoken with Mike or have any affiliation with futures.io or Al Brooks, but I imagine Mike does his best job of vetting educators to bring the most unbiased educational material to futures.io to help fellow traders. That is why I am an "elite" member of this website. I don't appreciate posters who accuse educators of fraud without having any proof. Al has not sold you on any promises of any riches. He is providing his approach to the market. Take it or leave it.

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  #370 (permalink)
emini2000
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dayman View Post
But your last reply about 3 hour ago you did call him a fraud:

For the last time, you can disagree with his (Al's) trading process, his teaching philosophy, or BMT's vetting process for educators. I have never spoken with Mike or have any affiliation with futures.io or Al Brooks, but I imagine Mike does his best job of vetting educators to bring the most unbiased educational material to futures.io to help fellow traders. That is why I am an "elite" member of this website. I don't appreciate posters who accuse educators of fraud without having any proof. Al has not sold you on any promises of any riches. He is providing his approach to the market. Take it or leave it.

This really isn't a shot at you, but "Futures Experience: Beginner" says all I need to go. Give it a few years and you'll know what I'm talking about. We all have to learn the hard way.

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  #371 (permalink)
 dayman 
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emini2000 View Post
This really isn't a shot at you, but "Futures Experience: Beginner" says all I need to go. Give it a few years and you'll know what I'm talking about. We all have to learn the hard way.

This statement in of itself probably explains why you post so much in this thread. I will be sure to label myself "advanced" for further discussions. Are brokerage statements needed for "advanced" status?

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emini2000
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This statement in of itself probably explains why you post so much in this thread. I will be sure to label myself "advanced" for further discussions. Are brokerage statements needed for "advanced" status?

You don't know what you don't know.

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  #373 (permalink)
 KelvinKing 
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I agree with what most are saying. If a trader is claiming to be profitable, he should at least provide some gimps of his broker statements. At the very least, show that he actually entered a trade, if he is showing some type of specific entry that he took based on a setup. I do that myself, when I record my videos. It just provides a certain level of confidence and accountability, which is desperately lacking in this industry....

Unfortunately, this industry is so unregulated that basically anything goes. I can just setup a website, claim to be hugely profitable and sell a course for a few hundred, and put the usual label that this is for "education" only. It seems like the word "education" is a catch all to absolve a vendor from all blame. I guess it is what it is...

To me, I think I've reached a point where I no longer care if the trader is really profitable or not. Nor do I expect trade by trade accountability, because I've come to the expectation that it just doesn't exist. I simply do not have that kind of time and energy to track a persons fills and call him out, when we all clearly know he's most likely on Sim anyway.....

To me, when I buy a course, all I'm expecting is to learn something new or get some new ideas from the actual material, and hopefully use that to improve my own trading system. I do not expect anything more than that.

I also do vote in favor that if a vendor who claims to be hugely profitable wants to do a Webinar on FIO, he should be at least vetted to a certain degree. Not asking for a full 10 year IRS audit, but at least last few months of broker statements (I don't see how that can be considered illegal??). I think that will certainly set this trading site head and shoulders above the rest and hopefully push this industry in the right direction (finally). For your consideration, Mike.

Cheers!

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  #374 (permalink)
emini2000
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KelvinKing View Post
Not asking for a full 10 year IRS audit, but at least last few months of broker statements (I don't see how that can be considered illegal??).

It's not no matter what they tell you. There's absolutely no legal reason not to.

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  #375 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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emini2000 View Post
It's not no matter what they tell you. There's absolutely no legal reason not to.

Does anyone know under which name Al Brooks or Brooks Trading Course is registered under with NFA , because I can't find it in their registry?

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  #376 (permalink)
 NGtrader 
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ktrader View Post
Does anyone know under which name Al Brooks or Brooks Trading Course is registered under with NFA , because I can't find it in their registry?

All you do is search under the last name Brooks, there are two entries (assuming he is using his MD status):

https://www.nfa.futures.org/BasicNet/Details.aspx?entityid=JNGs%2fX0GwtA%3d

https://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Details.aspx?entityid=5HHeSWnZJNw%3d&rn=Y

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  #377 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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NGtrader View Post

But those arent current, I meant under which he is currently registered.

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  #378 (permalink)
 JimB17 
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ktrader View Post
But those arent current, I meant under which he is currently registered.

earlier in the thread someone mentioned last showing was '94, which this indicates.

one would expect with so many trades one would lease or own a seat as well, for lower commissions. not sure how to check this....

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  #379 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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@Big Mike

"
If someone comes here to teach, that beautiful. We all can learn something from someone.

If someone comes here to teach and claims to be doing what he preaches and making a living from it, he should be vetted before doing any presentation.
If not, it may be misleading new traders since by BM let him do it here its like giving a thumb up for the vendor re his credentials and if not verified, may be a try to lure beginners to his room with false claims.

I do not think he can have it both ways cannot have it both way."

Mike, what's your take/input on it?

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  #380 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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IzhakHaim View Post
Mike, what's your take/input on it?

Read my statement. I don't have time to keep going in circles.

Mike

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  #381 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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Big Mike View Post
Read my statement. I don't have time to keep going in circles.

Mike

Just asked re your vetting option so we can all trust anyone that comes here .

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  #382 (permalink)
 NGtrader 
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ktrader View Post
But those arent current, I meant under which he is currently registered.

Well maybe he withdrew his membership then and isn't currently registered. I don't think there is an absolute requirement for education providers to register under the NFA.

Registration

He doesn't fall under any of these categories.

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  #383 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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Well maybe he withdrew his membership then and isn't currently registered. I don't think there is an absolute requirement for education providers to register under the NFA.

Registration

He doesn't fall under any of these categories.

There are no requirement for educators to be NFA members. That's not why I asked. I need the information for something else.

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  #384 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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If someone can come here to teach its great,BUT if claims to be trading live and profitable and is not vetted re his claims, than there is a lost of credibility to this place.

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  #385 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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IzhakHaim View Post
Just asked re your vetting option so we can all trust anyone that comes here .

I read in an earlier post (in another thread, unfortunately i forgot which):

verify, then trust

So pr. default , do not trust anyone, not verified.

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  #386 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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IzhakHaim View Post
If someone can come here to teach its great,BUT if claims to be trading live and profitable and is not vetted re his claims, than there is a lost of credibility to this place.

This thread is starting to get a little silly.



IzhakHaim, it's not directed at you, but I quote your remarks because there's a statement in there, suggested by many, that I want to validate.


Has this Al Brooks guy made a claim to be trading live and be profitable?

If so, can anyone post evidence that he did so (i.e. that he made this claim)?



Otherwise, anything short of that, and we're basically continuing this ping-pong around unsubstantiated claims on either side, and any further discussions does not appear to add any more value to the subject in my view.

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  #387 (permalink)
 michaelleemoore 
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I have no dog in this fight, but given the tenor of this discussion, it seems like everyone would be well served to tend to their own trading. Get better at trading. Give back to the community. Be more interested in what's good and spend less time bad-talking folks you don't know.

Yes, I understand there's an issue about who does webinars at FIO. But by our presence here, our faith is placed in @Big Mike. When he needs our guidance, he asks. I'm with him here regarding the circular, self-perpetuating argument that continues without end.

If you really have time to further this sort of conflict, reflect on your motivations and see if there's not some way you might send something more positive into our community of traders.

Just a thought, meant in the best possible way.

Michael

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  #388 (permalink)
 JimB17 
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michaelleemoore View Post

If you really have time to further this sort of conflict, reflect on your motivations and see if there's not some way you might send something more positive into our community of traders.

Just a thought, meant in the best possible way.

Michael

Good statement. That being said *TIME* is the key here. I have hundreds of books on trading, along with the four books by Brooks and video courses and such. Also all the material from SMI, which was mostly active until 1974. This is about 500 audio recordings and charts. Lots of _time_ needed to determine what is worth studying. Years spent studying already.

The question here is how one spends one's TIME. I just joined this forum. If one has been here since the beginning they would know best places to spend TIME to improve in trading reading specific threads and members here.

This involves vetting and determining what is worth expending time and energy upon. These are limited resources.

If someone directed me at the beginning of this journey toward specific paths which are fruitful and advised those which are barren it makes the destination arrive and be beneficial. One would want to trust that person knows what they are talking about prior to engaging TIME as well as money in what they say.

My interest is if my TIME is best utilized by studying one person's approach or another, and for this understanding if that person is successful in their thoughts and their approach to trading is positive.

Wasting a year or more of TIME on an approach which is not positive to the originator of this information seems an important question to determine.

This is not said as conflict or attack, but simply stated I would not want to learn from someone unless they are successful in what they are teaching.

Hence I find the information here important. Expending additional personal resources when success of the "teacher" is in question seems like TIME not well spent.

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  #389 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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Am I the only one that have the feeling we do not want to vett Al that claims to be profitable and comes here to teach?

If I claim I know to fly the 747, will you be my passenger?

If I clam I can teach you how to make money, will you like to see that I am not on food stamps and medicaid?

Am I wrong that each time we talk about vetting, old timers ( Wizards) jump in with some reasons why there is no need for it? this way we let new traders assume the presenter is legit since he is here and therefore may be a good idea to join his room.

Just MPHO.

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  #390 (permalink)
 michaelleemoore 
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IzhakHaim View Post
Am I the only one that have the feeling we do not want to vett Al that claims to be profitable and comes here to teach?

If I claim I know to fly the 747, will you be my passenger?

If I clam I can teach you how to make money, will you like to see that I am not on food stamps and medicaid?

Am I wrong that each time we talk about vetting, old timers ( Wizards) jump in with some reasons why there is no need for it? this way we let new traders assume the presenter is legit since he is here and therefore may be a good idea to join his room.

Just MPHO.

I should have stayed out of this, and I after this, I will. The point above has been made dozens of times here. Everyone gets it. Some agree, some don't. I personally don't care, as I've learned that the way I trade -- a veritable hash of styles -- is the way that works for me.

Speaking only for myself, I said absolutely nothing about whether there is "no need" to vet Al Brooks. I said the prolonged series of posts has gotten us nowhere and has become noxious. If you'd like to criticize or call me an "old-timer" for arguing for civility, fine.

I have listened to lots of webinars, read books, watched videos; I got little bits of useful information from some of them, while some -- to me -- were useless. But for someone else, what I found useless might have been just what they were looking for.

That's my point; we all have to make our own way. My way is made easier by having a clear mind, but that's probably because I'm such an "old timer." This thread doesn't help with that, so I'll leave it to other posters to carry on.

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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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Have we broken the world record for loops in one thread yet?

Reads like a gabba tune.

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  #392 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Have we broken the world record for loops in one thread yet?

Reads like a gabba tune.

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So maybe its time to close this loop?
Does not look like anything will change re Brook's credential and vetting presenters here. (Wonder, does a presenter pay for the exposure in anyway? or just use the site to gain new subscribers to his site? or both?)
No need for more computer bytes to be used...

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  #393 (permalink)
 sam028 
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IzhakHaim View Post
So maybe its time to close this loop?
Does not look like anything will change re Brook's credential and vetting presenters here. (Wonder, does a presenter pay for the exposure in anyway? or just use the site to gain new subscribers to his site? or both?)
No need for more computer bytes to be used...

Mike will unban you tomorrow I suppose but that's enough trolling for now.
I did resist, resist, but I can't anymore.
So let's close this loop for now!

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  #394 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sam028 View Post
Mike will unban you tomorrow I suppose but that's enough trolling for now.
I did resist, resist, but I can't anymore.
So let's close this loop for now!

Hi Sam,

Geez, it seems I cannot even go workout for an hour without returning to my office with some new drama in this thread.

I do agree with your ban. This kind of user is better off elsewhere, so as to not pollute our community with their constant negativity. All attempts to reason with him failed, so in the end it seems his goal is not aligned with the community. It seemed that even though he did not understand what others would say, it was not enough - he had to continue to repeat his message. An infinite loop, like you said...

I haven't had time yet to research his account, perhaps he is another duplicate of the same user that has been banned three times in this very thread.

Let's free him up to go troll elsewhere

Mike

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  #395 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I did find he had more than one account, and banned his duplicates as well just now.

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  #396 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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There are no requirement for educators to be NFA members. That's not why I asked. I need the information for something else.

According to the NFA, which was very helpful specifying exactly what they do and don't do , there are no rules or regulations prohibiting non-members from disclosing their statements, nor do they audit or regulate a non-member.

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 Tymbeline 
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ktrader View Post
According to the NFA, which was very helpful specifying exactly what they do and don't do , there are no rules or regulations prohibiting non-members from disclosing their statements


Be aware, though, that many countries have their own, different, separate laws relating to vendors' implicit claims in the area of "income potential".

These are often interpreted, somewhat vaguely, through "case-law"/precedent, and are often a legal minefield (and a very profitable one for lawyers).

To mention just one example (not trading-related, but the same principle): if someone's promoting an MLM distributorship opportunity, it doesn't say anywhere in the law that they're not allowed to show a prospective associate their own recent income (e.g. copies of cheques), but very few sensible ones will take a chance on doing it, just in case they're later deemed to have made a representation which implies that new prospects would/might/can earn the same, which could easily get them into trouble when the new recruits don't. Some people promoting trading-related services feel the same; some have been advised by lawyers that there's considerable potential future downside involved in proving their own incomes in public. It's pretty easy, in an arguably over-regulated environment, for that to come across as an "implicit representation" that "you can do it, too".

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  #398 (permalink)
 grausch 
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Tymbeline View Post
Be aware, though, that many countries have their own, different, separate laws relating to vendors' implicit claims in the area of "income potential".

These are often interpreted, somewhat vaguely, through "case-law"/precedent, and are often a legal minefield (and a very profitable one for lawyers).

To mention just one example (not trading-related, but the same principle): if someone's promoting an MLM distributorship opportunity, it doesn't say anywhere in the law that they're not allowed to show a prospective associate their own recent income (e.g. copies of cheques), but very few sensible ones will take a chance on doing it, just in case they're later deemed to have made a representation which implies that new prospects would/might/can earn the same, which could easily get them into trouble when the new recruits don't. Some people promoting trading-related services feel the same; some have been advised by lawyers that there's considerable potential future downside involved in proving their own incomes in public. It's pretty easy, in an arguably over-regulated environment, for that to come across as an "implicit representation" that "you can do it, too".

It seems to me that those who have had great success to tend to use that in their marketing for their training courses / chat rooms. Examples are Dan Zanger, Larry Williams & Mark Minervini. Judging by the way they disclose their performance you are also allowed some liberties in how it's disclosed, i.e. disclose it in such a way to make it more attractive for your trading course / chat room.

While I get what you're saying and while I am very aware of a lot of the regulatory issues surrounding marketing (all of which are aimed at raising / managing OPM), I still believe that if someone truly had an exceptional track record, they could market it and use the typical boiler-plate disclosures, i.e. "you are responsible for your own trading, etc."

Citing potential NFA difficulties seems to be an easy way to avoid answering a hard question...

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  #399 (permalink)
 Tymbeline 
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grausch View Post
Citing potential NFA difficulties seems to be an easy way to avoid answering a hard question...


I can't argue with you there: I didn't much care for his reply, either.

(Personally, I'd have preferred to see him say "I have nothing to prove on that front and am not selling a 'trading system' with any guaranteed returns at all, so that would be misleading, and anyway mind your own damn business").

My perspective, though (and doubtless the perspective of many forum-posters, both here and elsewhere, who are making some money steadily by using what we've learned from Al Brooks - and there are a lot of us, now) is obviously a very different one from that of some posters in this thread, who seem almost to believe that Dr Brooks is somehow "deceiving" people simply by not being willing to discuss this. Which is utter nonsense, in my opinion, but there you go.

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 forgiven 
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IzhakHaim View Post
So maybe its time to close this loop?
Does not look like anything will change re Brook's credential and vetting presenters here. (Wonder, does a presenter pay for the exposure in anyway? or just use the site to gain new subscribers to his site? or both?)
No need for more computer bytes to be used...

i bash vendors a lot. most of the ones i bash i have looked at there stuff. they had it coming. most vendors are no honest. however there is no way Mike could vet theses people. for one the time it would take to do so, just a good brokerage statement would not mean anything. it may come from a managed futures account. also it would be unfair to Mike to stick his neck out for any vendor , and it would be a huge conflict of interest. reviews from real traders that payed for there stuff is the only way. the way i vet vendors has changed. the vendors that have a 2000 to 5000 trading software with no trail ,just trust us...i do not even bother to look... trading rooms ...do not even bother to look... secret set-ups..do not even bother to look..

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