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Al Brooks Trading Course (www.brookstradingcourse.com)


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Al Brooks Trading Course (www.brookstradingcourse.com)

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  #201 (permalink)
Pedro40
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
 
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I think this thread has been extremely civil specially compared to other websites. But anyway, that is not the news.

The news is that Emmett has found a good one, giving out a 5 stars rating. After 3 years of double digit returns here comes the cherry on the pie:

"To my surprise, reviewing the account statement was not a problem. As a matter of fact, with a screen share, we logged into his TradeStation Brokerage account and began randomly reviewing trades. The trades on the official track record matched the brokerage statement. However, he does make some trades “off the record” that is not included in the advisory. My goal was to ignore anything and everything that was not part of the service. I can confirm he is actually trading with a live trading account, and the amount is significant."

This is how easy it could be for every trading room owner...

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  #202 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Well, unfortunately babysitting was indeed required. I have extremely limited internet and can only use my phone, not my notebook, which greatly limits my capabilities. I'm still on my honeymoon for another week.

I've temporarily banned rwbill for 4 weeks. His attitude is not in alignment with what this forum stands for. Repeating the same attack over and over just lead to this thread degenerating into something that belongs on other forums with name-calling and over the top theatrics.

If you don't like Al, post a review. If you don't like our webinars, don't watch. If you don't like the site, leave.

For the rest of us, act civil and be helpful resources to other members as is intended by our community.

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  #203 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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Seahn View Post
My guess is Al will not provide anything in the way of "proof" other than vague reassurances. The reality is he is not under any obligation to do anything especially for a few posters on some internet forums.

The real question is what will Big Mike decide to do if no proof is offered. The final decision is his, but I would predict the number of webinars here will drop to practically zero if some strict proof of performance is required. That will be everyone's loss.

Learning to trade is not getting proof of performance from someone and then blindly following them. Truly learning to trade is a process of being exposed to and trying many different approaches, mixing and matching, experiencing and learning until one finds what works for them. Yes, there are crooks and cons mixed in with the good stuff out there but that is no different than anything else in life, one needs to wise to the possible scams at every turn, there are no guarantees as in life, (actually there is one guarantee of not being scammed by trading rooms, DO NOT GO TO TRADING ROOMS THEY ARE A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY).

The webinars here are a helpful element for learning to trade and it would be a shame to lose that resource especially for new traders because a few insist on guarantees.

I agree with a lot of what you've said but I think there is middle ground. Vendors who claim or imply that they trade their product with real money should be required to provide proof of those claims. However, the easy fix is for them to be honest and say either "this is pure education about a topic I don't trade or I don't trade with real money this is pure SIM trading."

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  #204 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
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Brooks is obviously no wrbtrader or kongzana(if he was sharmas would be promoting him): i.e. he is not a conman.

but he leaves it up to the trader to fill in the gaps- and the gullible put "profitable trader" where the blanks are..

If he comrs on the seminar and admits he is only an educator then I will be full of respect for him.

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  #205 (permalink)
 pvlee 
Hertfordshire England
 
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I used Al's trading room around 4 or 5 years ago when I started out. I'd read his first book and was pretty confused but I thought If this guy had been a doctor and jacked that in to trade, then he must be successful. After a few months I had lost most of my trading capital (My fault by over leveraging, not Al's). I have since moved on and trade nothing like Al's method.

He often said his edge was tiny, but he rarely spoke of his losing trades. He often said traders should look for a 1/2 risk/reward ratio but he didn't seem to do that himself, he would often have a large stop losses. He often implied that trading was now easy for him after a long struggle, but I very much doubt that now

Looking back now I understand more about what this job entails, I think I was very naive to trust someone who would/could not show a proven track record and certainly would never do it again or recommend anyone else to.

As to Al Brooks, he may be able to do it but he certainly can't teach it. But, then again, he did say many times that most of us traders would fail. I certainly did trying to emulate his trading style.

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  #206 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Which one of you truth seekers is "Crooked Hillary", anybody know?

Edit after huh? below Don't be concerned if you don't immediately recognise the reference it is not important, or just PM me if you know. I'm just curious.

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  #207 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
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Rory View Post
Which one of you truth seekers is "Crooked Hillary", anybody know?

Huh?

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  #208 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
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Rory View Post
Which one of you truth seekers is "Crooked Hillary", anybody know?

Edit after huh? below Don't be concerned if you don't immediately recognise the reference it is not important, or just PM me if you know. I'm just curious.

I am unsubscribing from this thread. Thanks for the PM.

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  #209 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Me too (again..). Saddened by the state of people.

That "man" has no class. Time make like Frozen and let it go.

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  #210 (permalink)
 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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Rory View Post
Which one of you truth seekers is "Crooked Hillary", anybody know?

Edit after huh? below Don't be concerned if you don't immediately recognise the reference it is not important, or just PM me if you know. I'm just curious.

Are we not suppose to mention Emmett's site? Crooked Hilary posted this on Emmett's site - you can go there and see I am including his exact post:

"
“His attitude is not in alignment with what this forum stands for”

In other words he is not following in the footsteps of the cult brotherhood- LOL.

How dare he jump out of the kool-aid line.

Even Mr Kumbya bobwest could not get him to settle in for the nightly pudding and had to pull the grand master Big Mike away from his mail order bride from stroking their mutts on the beach. LOL."

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  #211 (permalink)
 Zentrader2010 
Sydney
 
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Honestly guys - listen to yourselves ?
I mean just because he won't, for clearly personal reasons that probably doesn't have jack to do with your speculation he is not transparent...I mean isn't his very transparent three Volume bible on technical analysis enough? He's very transparent video series enough proof he either A. Trades for a living B knows what he's talking about at the very least?
I think you are just trying to bolster your own particular bias regarding his particular trading methodology. Is it vulpine analysts vs price action camps ? I mean to suggest a lot of traders are not benefiting greatly from his teachings and using it to become successful professionals to some degree or another is ludicrous thinking.
How about this for Al Brooks reasons?
1. He's a modest guy and doesn't want to brag about just how much money he is making from trading alone. Probably way more then you lot I vouch as highly probable bet.
2. There is some legal reasons for it which is beyond your comprehension but ties him up as an advisor and he does not have the bit of paper that allows him to do so
3. On the off chance he is merely an academic which is fairly low bet - he was an Ophthalmologist and a pretty smart guy and I'm sure there are plenty of academic writings on trading which are very on the mark and useful
4. I bet most of you guys haven't even bothered to read his works? Am I right ? How can you sit in judgement ?

5. He is successful at what he does. He is naturally a target of lesser human beings who are just plain jealous that the only place they can find a place to publish their writings on is at a forum.

I will give you an analogy :

I don't particularly like Rose Byrne as an actress. She is very hot though I think we can agree ?
So my partner took me to a play in Sydney town called 'Speed the Plow'
And the first act, she kind of proved my 'bias ' . Fairly pedestrian acting ...
But just as I was feeling smug in my 'verification ' because it was apparently in front of my eyes ( she was still eye candy ) BAM.
Second act she really comes alive and totally shocked and awed me! Suddenly I saw the great actress not a cute piece of. It is clear to me now that I was wrong in a big way. Too many internal biases. I think we are all guilty of that but just can't admit it. It is part of psychology we all have to work on. There is no absolute 'I am right and he is wrong ' . If you think that you better wipe that smile off your face and spend longer working in yourself rather than having a go at someone that has made it already ....


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  #212 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
Honestly guys - listen to yourselves ?
I mean just because he won't, for clearly personal reasons that probably doesn't have jack to do with your speculation he is not transparent...I mean isn't his very transparent three Volume bible on technical analysis enough? He's very transparent video series enough proof he either A. Trades for a living B knows what he's talking about at the very least?
I think you are just trying to bolster your own particular bias regarding his particular trading methodology. Is it vulpine analysts vs price action camps ? I mean to suggest a lot of traders are not benefiting greatly from his teachings and using it to become successful professionals to some degree or another is ludicrous thinking.
How about this for Al Brooks reasons?
1. He's a modest guy and doesn't want to brag about just how much money he is making from trading alone. Probably way more then you lot I vouch as highly probable bet.
2. There is some legal reasons for it which is beyond your comprehension but ties him up as an advisor and he does not have the bit of paper that allows him to do so
3. On the off chance he is merely an academic which is fairly low bet - he was an Ophthalmologist and a pretty smart guy and I'm sure there are plenty of academic writings on trading which are very on the mark and useful
4. I bet most of you guys haven't even bothered to read his works? Am I right ? How can you sit in judgement ?

5. He is successful at what he does. He is naturally a target of lesser human beings who are just plain jealous that the only place they can find a place to publish their writings on is at a forum.

I will give you an analogy :

I don't particularly like Rose Byrne as an actress. She is very hot though I think we can agree ?
So my partner took me to a play in Sydney town called 'Speed the Plow'
And the first act, she kind of proved my 'bias ' . Fairly pedestrian acting ...
But just as I was feeling smug in my 'verification ' because it was apparently in front of my eyes ( she was still eye candy ) BAM.
Second act she really comes alive and totally shocked and awed me! Suddenly I saw the great actress not a cute piece of. It is clear to me now that I was wrong in a big way. Too many internal biases. I think we are all guilty of that but just can't admit it. It is part of psychology we all have to work on. There is no absolute 'I am right and he is wrong ' . If you think that you better wipe that smile off your face and spend longer working in yourself rather than having a go at someone that has made it already ....


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That post is high comedy.

Listen, I'm an old-timer (and just old). I've been scammed by the best. In my many years journey, I still really haven't found a room (maybe one or two) that's up front and honest about their trading and will show you their 'stuff'.

Heck, I was in a room yesterday, and these guys say they have access to the floor, whatever edge that's supposed to give them, and watched them trade. Had the charts up and their DOM up. Took a Ym trade i think, went way against them, and they ended up adding 3 more contracts while at a loss and they finally worked their way into a profit.

Then I notice something. Guess what? All their charts and DOMs are in SIM mode! No wonder they have no fear in adding on to losers, etc. As anybody here knows, trading in SIM and live are two totally different psychological things. And success in SIM doesn't translate into success live because of it.

I said all that to say this: after all my years of experience, if a person won't show their real accounts, real charts, real DOM, then they are bogus, no matter how good of a teacher they are. I understand a lot of you like Al personally, but that doesn't mean he isn't bogus. And all the evidence points to that he is. Just saying you trade live and make money isn't enough. There has to be proof.

They're all scammers unless they prove they're not after all I've seen over the years. Some of you just haven't been burned enough apparently. The blind leading the blind.

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  #213 (permalink)
 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Zentrader2010 View Post
1. He's a modest guy and doesn't want to brag about just how much money he is making from trading alone. Probably way more then you lot I vouch as highly probable bet.
]

Obviously that is it. After all when Emmett called him asked for some proof and he refused, what else could it be? Well maybe the dog eat his brokerage statements. But yes it has to be one of these 2 reasons.

Here is what I know seldom does the devil wear horns and carry a pitch forks. Been to many trading rooms that can put on an amazing show and they all sound so caring and sincere. Yet still waiting for one to trade a live account with DOM up and showing a track record.

I must add I was not sure if your post was serious or sarcasm. If sarcasm then I must admit you are brilliant and witty writer. I wish I was that good of a writer.

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  #214 (permalink)
 Zentrader2010 
Sydney
 
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I wonder if a guy wrote about how to do eye surgery and had other Ophthalmologists read it whether they could decide he is bogus and is just an academic ?


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  #215 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
I wonder if a guy wrote about how to do eye surgery and had other Ophthalmologists read it whether they could decide he is bogus and is just an academic ?


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I sure wouldn't let a person operate on me that just wrote about eye surgery and had not done any, or done it and wasn't successful at it. Or learn from him.

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  #216 (permalink)
 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
I wonder if a guy wrote about how to do eye surgery and had other Ophthalmologists read it whether they could decide he is bogus and is just an academic ?


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At least every Doctor's office I have been to they have a plaque showing proof they at least graduate from medical school. Practicing Medicine without a license is a crime.

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  #217 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Sarasota FL
 
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arafg View Post
Are we not suppose to mention Emmett's site? Crooked Hilary posted this on Emmett's site - you can go there and see I am including his exact post:

"
“His attitude is not in alignment with what this forum stands for”

In other words he is not following in the footsteps of the cult brotherhood- LOL.

How dare he jump out of the kool-aid line.

Even Mr Kumbya bobwest could not get him to settle in for the nightly pudding and had to pull the grand master Big Mike away from his mail order bride from stroking their mutts on the beach. LOL."

I understand that you are just quoting this.

Whoever wrote it has confirmed an opinion I was starting to form about this whole mess.

I don't think I will share my opinion. It has nothing to do with whether Al Brooks is honest or not. It has a lot to do with the stuff some people are willing to sling at others. WTF?

Bob.

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  #218 (permalink)
Pedro40
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
Ophthalmologists

Just to lighten the mood, a joke as an analogy:

Q: What do you call a doctor who goes through med school with a bunch of Ds?

A: A doctor.

The point is that any vendor's previous profession is pretty much irrelevant to the fact if he/she is profitable or not. I wanted to respond to your non sequiturs but instead here is another joke:

What do you call 2 orthopedic doctors reading an EKG? A double blind study!

-------------------------

Prediction: This thread will be closed down in the next 5 hours...

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  #219 (permalink)
 Zentrader2010 
Sydney
 
Experience: Beginner
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Look at the logic of the 'Al is a non -trader camp ? '
If A. Al does not show his brokerage statement he is ;
1. A non trader or
2. A trader
You choose 1
But just because condition A is not satisfied does not mean 1.
The correct answer is neither with certainty.
So you hold a bias that defies cold hard logic

You have enough ' experience' that you assume the condition A mostly leads to 1.
But a general condition does not prove a specific next event.

You assume 1 is correct only without real conviction.

It may work in your trading that You make money when condition A is satisfied 65% of the time
1. It rallies when I buy 65% of time
2. It does not rally when I buy (35%)

You know you don't have any certainty when you take the trade but you do because you have a stop loss when you're wrong that limits your losses...

Would you place a bet that you are right about Al ? What would be the odds of you winning ? How certain are you in reality ?

Al teaches this in fact.
He states that when you buy, someone just as smart as you is selling. Your edge is small or disappears quickly and filled with uncertainty ... he is correct and you cannot argue otherwise. So logic is a form of proof.





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  #220 (permalink)
 DaxyMcDaxFace 
London
 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
Honestly guys - listen to yourselves ?
I mean just because he won't, for clearly personal reasons that probably doesn't have jack to do with your speculation he is not transparent...I mean isn't his very transparent three Volume bible on technical analysis enough? He's very transparent video series enough proof he either A. Trades for a living B knows what he's talking about at the very least?
I think you are just trying to bolster your own particular bias regarding his particular trading methodology. Is it vulpine analysts vs price action camps ? I mean to suggest a lot of traders are not benefiting greatly from his teachings and using it to become successful professionals to some degree or another is ludicrous thinking.
How about this for Al Brooks reasons?
1. He's a modest guy and doesn't want to brag about just how much money he is making from trading alone. Probably way more then you lot I vouch as highly probable bet.
2. There is some legal reasons for it which is beyond your comprehension but ties him up as an advisor and he does not have the bit of paper that allows him to do so
3. On the off chance he is merely an academic which is fairly low bet - he was an Ophthalmologist and a pretty smart guy and I'm sure there are plenty of academic writings on trading which are very on the mark and useful
4. I bet most of you guys haven't even bothered to read his works? Am I right ? How can you sit in judgement ?

5. He is successful at what he does. He is naturally a target of lesser human beings who are just plain jealous that the only place they can find a place to publish their writings on is at a forum.

I will give you an analogy :

I don't particularly like Rose Byrne as an actress. She is very hot though I think we can agree ?
So my partner took me to a play in Sydney town called 'Speed the Plow'
And the first act, she kind of proved my 'bias ' . Fairly pedestrian acting ...
But just as I was feeling smug in my 'verification ' because it was apparently in front of my eyes ( she was still eye candy ) BAM.
Second act she really comes alive and totally shocked and awed me! Suddenly I saw the great actress not a cute piece of. It is clear to me now that I was wrong in a big way. Too many internal biases. I think we are all guilty of that but just can't admit it. It is part of psychology we all have to work on. There is no absolute 'I am right and he is wrong ' . If you think that you better wipe that smile off your face and spend longer working in yourself rather than having a go at someone that has made it already ....


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Good post Zen (the 2nd bit mainly). I have no idea who this guy Al is btw. Try to avoid vendors.....saves awful lot of hassle.


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  #221 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016


Zentrader2010 View Post
Look at the logic of the 'Al is a non -trader camp ? '



Would you place a bet that you are right about Al ? What would be the odds of you winning ? How certain are you in reality ?




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Who cares?
You want to learn from this Al guy, go ahead. You don't like/believe/trust this teacher? stay away. Not so complicated.

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  #222 (permalink)
 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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bobwest View Post
I understand that you are just quoting this.

Whoever wrote it has confirmed an opinion I was starting to form about this whole mess.

I don't think I will share my opinion. It has nothing to do with whether Al Brooks is honest or not. It has a lot to do with the stuff some people are willing to sling at others. WTF?

Bob.

It is almost like the Trump Clinton election. Each side thinks they are right and the other side is the uncivil side. Yet this is a thread about Al Brook's Trading Course and if someone has the audacity to say Al needs to show proof they are banned. Yet no uncivil pro Al Brooks supporter is banned.

I am not sure the real motives are about civility.

I for one hope at the next Al Brook's webinar he is asked to produce evidence of his years of profitable ES scalping and lets see what his response is.

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  #223 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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arafg View Post
It is almost like the Trump Clinton election. Each side thinks they are right and the other side is the uncivil side. Yet this is a thread about Al Brook's Trading Course and if someone has the audacity to say Al needs to show proof they are banned. Yet no uncivil pro Al Brooks supporter is banned.

I am not sure the real motives are about civility.

I for one hope at the next Al Brook's webinar he is asked to produce evidence of his years of profitable ES scalping and lets see what his response is.

I wrote that I am forming an opinion about this mess. My opinion has nothing to do with Al Brooks.

I'm not even pissed about "Mr Kumbya bobwest," which is kind of funny in a way.

But insulting someone and his wife with this crap is something else: "Even Mr Kumbya bobwest could not get him to settle in for the nightly pudding and had to pull the grand master Big Mike away from his mail order bride from stroking their mutts on the beach. LOL."

This is not a matter of how someone feels about a vendor. This is vicious.

To repeat, WTF?

Bob.

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  #224 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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arafg View Post
It is almost like the Trump Clinton election. Each side thinks they are right and the other side is the uncivil side. Yet this is a thread about Al Brook's Trading Course and if someone has the audacity to say Al needs to show proof they are banned. Yet no uncivil pro Al Brooks supporter is banned.

I am not sure the real motives are about civility.

I for one hope at the next Al Brook's webinar he is asked to produce evidence of his years of profitable ES scalping and lets see what his response is.

That is not why he was temporarily banned. Please don't post misinformation, others that haven't read the thread will believe you.

No one gets banned for writing reviews, so long as they are legit. No one gets banned for questioning any vendor.

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  #225 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Let me spend some more time out of my honeymoon since obviously some of you don't understand why rwbill was banned.

Let's use an example: McDonald's. Let's say rwbill doesn't like something about McDonald's so he goes physically to a restaurant, and every time a customer walks in the door, he yells out his review.

Eventually, he will be forcibly removed because he is causing a disturbance to others.

His opinion about the food is besides the point, his removal is due to his disturbance.

State your opinion, write your review, engage in healthy and productive discussion - but stop there.

For the same people that think he was banned for questioning a vendor, let me also specifically remind you that I do not like Al's method, and that I actively discouraged everyone from scalping. In an interesting and perhaps funny turn of events, I am one of the few (only?) people on this site to ever have posted live trades, cash, backed up by daily statements and other various forms of proof, including monthly and quarterly broker statements. I did it to actively discourage scalping.

So don't think for a second I'm defending Al. I'm defending people's rights to choose their own method and make their own decisions, as well as defending common sense.



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  #226 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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bobwest View Post
I wrote that I am forming an opinion about this mess. My opinion has nothing to do with Al Brooks.

I'm not even pissed about "Mr Kumbya bobwest," which is kind of funny in a way.

But insulting someone and his wife with this crap is something else: "Even Mr Kumbya bobwest could not get him to settle in for the nightly pudding and had to pull the grand master Big Mike away from his mail order bride from stroking their mutts on the beach. LOL."

This is not a matter of how someone feels about a vendor. This is vicious.

To repeat, WTF?

Bob.

I can't find the original post you are referring to, would you please use the report post feature on that post.

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  #227 (permalink)
emini2000
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Big Mike View Post
Let me spend some more time out of my honeymoon since obviously some of you don't understand why rwbill was banned.

Let's use an example: McDonald's. Let's say rwbill doesn't like something about McDonald's so he goes physically to a restaurant, and every time a customer walks in the door, he yells out his review.

Eventually, he will be forcibly removed because he is causing a disturbance to others.

His opinion about the food is besides the point, his removal is due to his disturbance.

State your opinion, write your review, engage in healthy and productive discussion - but stop there.

For the same people that think he was banned for questioning a vendor, let me also specifically remind you that I do not like Al's method, and that I actively discouraged everyone from scalping. In an interesting and perhaps funny turn of events, I am one of the few (only?) people on this site to ever have posted live trades, cash, backed up by daily statements and other various forms of proof, including monthly and quarterly broker statements. I did it to actively discourage scalping.

So don't think for a second I'm defending Al. I'm defending people's rights to choose their own method and make their own decisions, as well as defending common sense.



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Hey Mike,

Not being an Elite member I don't have access to the thread you had on your trading method, live trades, etc, so a question:

What do you consider scalping as opposed to not scalping? Is it number of ticks? Time in a trade? Etc? And did you share your whole method in the thread?

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  #228 (permalink)
 jodistrict 
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I think most people are commenting on Al Brook's technique without ever taking his course. I would like to correct a few misperceptions.

1. Al Brook's does not encourage scalping. In fact he strongly discourages it. But he does have one video in his course on scalping to show how it would be done using his method.

2. Theoretically, every trade can be made to be the same risk regardless of the stop size. Stop's are set by the market structure. You would make the risk the same for a wider stop by position sizing, i.e. trading less contracts. This is the potential pitfall for many traders. If you are a 1 contract trader on the E-mini, you can't position size, and so must skip trades requiring it. Al also has one video teaching how to trade options in situations where the stop is excessively large. I trade SPY, which allows me to position size by shares, which is finer grained.

3. Al teaches scaling in contract in a trading range market to increase the probability of success. He has several videos on trading range markets and how to tell a trading range from a trend. If you have an edge in determining whether a market is a trading range or a trend, you can still make money in a highly random environment trading in either direction. This is why in his trading room he will sometimes say "always in long" on a bar, and a few bars later say "always in short". In a trading range environment you can make money in either direction. His technique lets you decide what you want to do. His methodology allows maximum flexibility which makes it more subtle (and confusing to some) to learn.

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  #229 (permalink)
 arafg 
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Big Mike View Post
Let me spend some more time out of my honeymoon since obviously some of you don't understand why rwbill was banned.

Let's use an example: McDonald's. Let's say rwbill doesn't like something about McDonald's so he goes physically to a restaurant, and every time a customer walks in the door, he yells out his review.

Eventually, he will be forcibly removed because he is causing a disturbance to others.

His opinion about the food is besides the point, his removal is due to his disturbance.

State your opinion, write your review, engage in healthy and productive discussion - but stop there.

For the same people that think he was banned for questioning a vendor, let me also specifically remind you that I do not like Al's method, and that I actively discouraged everyone from scalping. In an interesting and perhaps funny turn of events, I am one of the few (only?) people on this site to ever have posted live trades, cash, backed up by daily statements and other various forms of proof, including monthly and quarterly broker statements. I did it to actively discourage scalping.

So don't think for a second I'm defending Al. I'm defending people's rights to choose their own method and make their own decisions, as well as defending common sense.



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You state engage in a healthy dispute, so lets do that. rwbil was banned for doing just that. Unlike going in McDonalds this is more like posting your review in Yelp. Obviously you can not stand outside a restaurant and tell people the food is bad.

This is a thread on Al Brook's Trading Course, so commenting on Al Brooks trading ability should be fair game. If what you state is true then the pro Al Supporters who wrote several post would be equally banned. So are you in the process of banning them too??

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  #230 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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Big Mike View Post
Let me spend some more time out of my honeymoon since obviously some of you don't understand why rwbill was banned.

Let's use an example: McDonald's. Let's say rwbill doesn't like something about McDonald's so he goes physically to a restaurant, and every time a customer walks in the door, he yells out his review.

Eventually, he will be forcibly removed because he is causing a disturbance to others.

His opinion about the food is besides the point, his removal is due to his disturbance.

State your opinion, write your review, engage in healthy and productive discussion - but stop there.

For the same people that think he was banned for questioning a vendor, let me also specifically remind you that I do not like Al's method, and that I actively discouraged everyone from scalping. In an interesting and perhaps funny turn of events, I am one of the few (only?) people on this site to ever have posted live trades, cash, backed up by daily statements and other various forms of proof, including monthly and quarterly broker statements. I did it to actively discourage scalping.

So don't think for a second I'm defending Al. I'm defending people's rights to choose their own method and make their own decisions, as well as defending common sense.



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In my opinion its not the entire same scenario as the McDonalds example.

Its about how the product is presented by the vendor, if McDonalds were to advertise that for every big mac you eat you loose 1 kg weight without having documented proof it's the case, regulators would come down hard on them and consumer organisations would complain (and even if they made a lot of disturbance at McDonalds restuarants, a documentary would probably be made about them, how they fought an organisation misleading people and be considered consumer-heroes).

As I read rwbill's comment, he doesn't have an issue with the product itself, merely how it is presented, with claims of success without proof.

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  #231 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Big Mike View Post
I can't find the original post you are referring to, would you please use the report post feature on that post.

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It was a post that quoted a post from Emmett Moore's site, not an expression of opinion on this site by a FIO member.



I think it is disgusting, and it makes me think there is something very wrong among some of those in this "debate", but it was not presented as as the view of the person who was passing it on. The context is that it had been referred to a few posts above, without being quoted.

Bob.

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  #232 (permalink)
Pedro40
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In this post, I am going to defend Al and show to his followers that there are actually legit reasons why a vendor wouldn't want to share his trading history. Unfortunately none of you have argued this so far...

So just as a thought exercise, let's list why a vendor who actually trades real money wouldn't want to prove it? Not necessarily to everyone and in detail, but to a trusted public person who can vouch for him. (If Emmett or Big Mike sees the trades, that is good enough for me.)

1. The account is really small. The vendor might be not proud that after 10 or whatever years he is still trading only a few contracts, when people expect him killing it and making it rain. The reasons for this could be plenty: risk aversion, psychologically not comfortable with large number of contracts, not having enough money to trade, etc.

2. The returns are very small. After all again, the public expect the vendor to do much better than the index, and if the vendor can't even outperform the index or let's just say makes a 8-10% annually, that can be done by much simpler methods (covered calls, etc) and no book reading, trading room or video study is needed.

3. The vendor can't even follow his own method. It is basically the case of being a better teacher than a trader. Do as I say, not as I do. Again, trying to cover that is understandable.

4. The strategy is not profitable in the long run. And here is where we get really interested. The pudding and its taste. The strategy might be good at certain times and conditions, but not all the time. The returns are all over the place.

5.It can be calculated that the vendor makes way more money by selling education than by trading. I actually don't have a problem with this. Let's say the vendor makes 80-100% on a 50K account, but 100K+ dollars with the subscriptions, videos, etc. Here even though the strategy makes excellent returns, there is a reason why the vendor isn't that proud to show it, because he wants to be seen as a trader first and an educator second.

6. A combination of the above.

7. None of our business. I have a problem with this. If you are trying to sell me a burger, I sure would like to know if you eat it yourself too, and find it tasty. Any vendor should have at least a small real money Show account where the strategy is proven to the public. If the vendor has a bigger private account beside that, fine, but the teachings and strategy should be backed by real life real money trades. Period.

I might have missed a few other legit reasons, but I would accept 1,2,3 and 5 as understandable and logical arguments, even if we would prefer our hero to do better. But giving us the bullshit "I legally can't show trades" argument is not going to fly...

Edit:

8. The vendor is only profitable because he gets an exceptionally low commission. If the strategy only works when you own a seat or trade thousands of contracts, that is prohibitive for most would be students. The strategy should be advertised as such, but usually isn't.

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  #233 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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Zentrader2010 View Post
Honestly guys - listen to yourselves ?
I mean just because he won't, for clearly personal reasons that probably doesn't have jack to do with your speculation he is not transparent...I mean isn't his very transparent three Volume bible on technical analysis enough? He's very transparent video series enough proof he either A. Trades for a living B knows what he's talking about at the very least?
I think you are just trying to bolster your own particular bias regarding his particular trading methodology. Is it vulpine analysts vs price action camps ? I mean to suggest a lot of traders are not benefiting greatly from his teachings and using it to become successful professionals to some degree or another is ludicrous thinking.
How about this for Al Brooks reasons?
1. He's a modest guy and doesn't want to brag about just how much money he is making from trading alone. Probably way more then you lot I vouch as highly probable bet.
2. There is some legal reasons for it which is beyond your comprehension but ties him up as an advisor and he does not have the bit of paper that allows him to do so
3. On the off chance he is merely an academic which is fairly low bet - he was an Ophthalmologist and a pretty smart guy and I'm sure there are plenty of academic writings on trading which are very on the mark and useful
4. I bet most of you guys haven't even bothered to read his works? Am I right ? How can you sit in judgement ?

5. He is successful at what he does. He is naturally a target of lesser human beings who are just plain jealous that the only place they can find a place to publish their writings on is at a forum.

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1. He's a modest guy who brags about his trading ability but produces no proof. He's a modest guy who can't wait to tell you about his daughter in the Ivy League university. He's a modest guy, hold on a minute He's not a modest guy after all.

2. There is some legal reasons for it which is beyond your comprehension but ties him up which is absolute total BS so that can't be why he hasn't provided proof of his trading ability and the soundness of his method.

3. On the off chance he is merely an academic which is fairly low bet - but we all know that academics are physically incapable of downloading their brokerage statements so come on guys back off with the expectations that such a modest, humble, honest and honorable academic should prove what he claims.

4. I bet most of you guys haven't even bothered to read his works? Am I right ? How can you sit in judgement ? Geeze Louise asking for a vendor to provide proof of their marketing claims, calamity, catastrophe, the sky will fall in and the 7 horsemen will descend upon us if we dare to even dream of such a thing.

5. He is successful at what he does. He's told you often enough and long enough that he is so shut up and just believe him OK. Him saying it is proof enough OK!

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  #234 (permalink)
 amoeba 
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I watched Al's video series, didn't care if he traded or not, actually didn't see/hear any claims before I choose to study his work.

It was such an insignificant amount of money, I mean really, if $300 busts your trading capital better you give it to Al than some fund manager.

After watching all of his videos and taking a book load of notes I went about systematically testing ideas and validating concepts. This is really what I wanted from the course, knowledge & ideas to test.

Whether it worked for Al or not was irrelevant to me, I view trading education the same as my professional continued education, I am happy to spend money on books / courses and expect to have to do the work myself to figure out it if will provide a profitable edge.

Even when starting trading I never considered vendor products greater than $1000 to be good value regardless of the promises or claims, I could see if you were willing to do the research there was plenty of free content & reasonably priced books.

Maybe I'm just not particularly altruistic about trading, but if someone is not willing to do their own research and carefully consider the value proposition of a vendors claim then there is probably not any way to help them.

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  #235 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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amoeba View Post
I watched Al's video series, didn't care if he traded or not, actually didn't see/hear any claims before I choose to study his work.

It was such an insignificant amount of money, I mean really, if $300 busts your trading capital better you give it to Al than some fund manager.

After watching all of his videos and taking a book load of notes I went about systematically testing ideas and validating concepts. This is really what I wanted from the course, knowledge & ideas to test.

Whether it worked for Al or not was irrelevant to me, I view trading education the same as my professional continued education, I am happy to spend money on books / courses and expect to have to do the work myself to figure out it if will provide a profitable edge.

Even when starting trading I never considered vendor products greater than $1000 to be good value regardless of the promises or claims, I could see if you were willing to do the research there was plenty of free content & reasonably priced books.

Maybe I'm just not particularly altruistic about trading, but if someone is not willing to do their own research and carefully consider the value proposition of a vendors claim then there is probably not any way to help them.

You're right $300 is nothing and education is the most valuable and important thing in trading but you're also missing the point. Should vendors who peddle their products through this site be required to provide proof that they trade and that their product does what they claim it does? That seems like a no brainer to me and I can't understand the amount of opposition to it. Another thing to consider is that while $300 is inconsequential to you and me it may not be to other people and if Al Brooks or any other vendor uses this site to get 100, 300 or a 1000 newbies to buy his product over the course of a year then the amount of money is not inconsequential and he should be required to provide proof of the claims he has made and continues to make.

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  #236 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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arafg View Post
It is almost like the Trump Clinton election. Each side thinks they are right and the other side is the uncivil side. Yet this is a thread about Al Brook's Trading Course and if someone has the audacity to say Al needs to show proof they are banned. Yet no uncivil pro Al Brooks supporter is banned.

I am not sure the real motives are about civility.

I for one hope at the next Al Brook's webinar he is asked to produce evidence of his years of profitable ES scalping and lets see what his response is.

Does FIO stand for Forbid Individual Opinions?

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  #237 (permalink)
 amoeba 
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Stray Dog View Post
You're right $300 is nothing and education is the most valuable and important thing in trading but you're also missing the point. Should vendors who peddle their products through this site be required to provide proof that they trade and that their product does what they claim it does? That seems like a no brainer to me and I can't understand the amount of opposition to it. Another thing to consider is that while $300 is inconsequential to you and me it may not be to other people and if Al Brooks or any other vendor uses this site to get 100, 300 or a 1000 newbies to buy his product over the course of a year then the amount of money is not inconsequential and he should be required to provide proof of the claims he has made and continues to make.

Perhaps it would make an interesting poll for the site.

I can see from the rest of this thread the core options would be something along;

- Presenters should be made to disclose trading performance before being allowed to share/promote.
- Presenters should NOT be required to disclose any trading performance.
- Presenters should disclose if they are EDUCATIONAL ONLY and not active traders.

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  #238 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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amoeba View Post
Perhaps it would make an interesting poll for the site.

I can see from the rest of this thread the core options would be something along;

- Presenters should be made to disclose trading performance before being allowed to share/promote.
- Presenters should NOT be required to disclose any trading performance.
- Presenters should disclose if they are EDUCATIONAL ONLY and not active traders.

That's a very good summation of the last few days posts.

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  #239 (permalink)
 amoeba 
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It would probably scare away most presenters though (which I recognize does raise concerns).

I personally still try to watch most webinars on FIO even if I have a considerably strong feeling against their methods or techniques.

This helps keep my bias in check and can confront me with new ideas and concepts to test and validate for myself, which I believe is really at the core of trading, you have to be constantly absorbing new ideas and willing to do the work to test, validate and either discard or absorb.

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  #240 (permalink)
 arafg 
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amoeba View Post
I watched Al's video series, didn't care if he traded or not, actually didn't see/hear any claims before I choose to study his work.

It was such an insignificant amount of money, I mean really, if $300 busts your trading capital better you give it to Al than some fund manager.

After watching all of his videos and taking a book load of notes I went about systematically testing ideas and validating concepts. This is really what I wanted from the course, knowledge & ideas to test.

Whether it worked for Al or not was irrelevant to me, I view trading education the same as my professional continued education, I am happy to spend money on books / courses and expect to have to do the work myself to figure out it if will provide a profitable edge.

Even when starting trading I never considered vendor products greater than $1000 to be good value regardless of the promises or claims, I could see if you were willing to do the research there was plenty of free content & reasonably priced books.

Maybe I'm just not particularly altruistic about trading, but if someone is not willing to do their own research and carefully consider the value proposition of a vendors claim then there is probably not any way to help them.

In that case you will love this industry and the vendors will love you. Tons of vendors all with claims of their system making money who show no proof to sell you their products and you are eager to buy them. A win win. In fact a few are finally being shut down by the regulators thanks to Emmett finally exposing them like Sideways and Open Range Trader.

But I cannot help but think most people want to buy trading books from someone that can actually trade profitably. Maybe not.

And I will add you are right there are tons of vendors scamming people out of thousands of dollars for systems that do not work, and Al only charges a little bit in comparison. But does that make it OK. In fact taking a little money from a lot of people might be a more profitable adventure in the long run, well that was until a few people have finally called him out on his claims.

Gosh I hope this is considered a healthy discussion.

Reminds of Alice in Wonderland, where if you offended the Red Queen it was, "Off with Their Head". Here you now have to worry about making any posting and then it is, "You are Banned". No wonder so few will post under those conditions.

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  #241 (permalink)
 amoeba 
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arafg View Post
In that case you will love this industry and the vendors will love you. Tons of vendors all with claims of their system making money who show no proof to sell you their products and you are eager to buy them. A win win. In fact a few are finally being shut down by the regulators thanks to Emmett finally exposing them like Sideways and Open Range Trader.

But I cannot help but think most people want to buy trading books from someone that can actually trade profitably. Maybe not.

And I will add you are right there are tons of vendors scamming people out of thousands of dollars for systems that do not work, and Al only charges a little bit in comparison. But does that make it OK. In fact taking a little money from a lot of people might be a more profitable adventure in the long run, well that was until a few people have finally called him out on his claims.

Gosh I hope this is considered a healthy discussion.

Reminds of Alice in Wonderland, where if you offended the Red Queen it was, "Off with Their Head". Here you now have to worry about making any posting and then it is, "You are Banned". No wonder so few will post under those conditions.

I don't find it offensive.

My contribution to this thread was more about the individual taking a larger responsibility towards their own trading.

I can understand the desire for vendors to disclose their performance, if this is your requirement it is a good filter for you to quickly shorten your list of acceptable sources of information.

My decision making process goes something like this;

- Presenter/vendor raises an interesting topic or concept I am unfamiliar with
- I research to see if I can find free information about said topic
- If I find free information lacking, I asses if paid materials offer reasonable value

Personally, I have never bought or subscribed to a trading system or promise, they just never passed my "why would you give away the golden goose" test. But I have always been happy to purchase books or videos at reasonable cost, sure there has been some quick duds, but some gold in there too. That is my responsibility to test and validate the information they offer.

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  #242 (permalink)
Pedro40
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
 
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amoeba View Post
$300 It was such an insignificant amount of money...

Whether it worked for Al or not was irrelevant to me,

I hear you man. I went to the pharmacy today and spent $300 on homeopathic "medicine" storing up for the winter. True, the FTC has just required "a declaration of the presence or absence of scientific proof for the claims made on each product."

But I say, what does a government agency know? Whether it works for me or others is irrelevant to me, I just like to take pills.

Just pulling your leg, man. I blew the $300 on lottery tickets....It is such an insignificant amount of money...

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 amoeba 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
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Pedro40 View Post
I hear you man. I went to the pharmacy today and spent $300 on homeopathic "medicine" storing up for the winter. True, the FTC has just required "a declaration of the presence or absence of scientific proof for the claims made on each product."

But I say, what does a government agency know? Whether it works for me or others is irrelevant to me, I just like to take pills.

Just pulling your leg, man. I blew the $300 on lottery tickets....It is such an insignificant amount of money...

The equation is based on the individuals valuation. I wanted to learn, he provided information.

My requirements were not; "I need a trading system that can make me XXpnts a day in the ES", but that i wanted information about price action trading.

I advocate responsibility of the trader to verify profitability of a trading idea or concept. Profitable edges can be found in surprising places, and sometimes a left field concept can generate an idea worth testing.

I worked through all of Al's concepts and spent 50+ hrs testing in python and excel, found somethings useful others not so much.

So was $300 for 60+ hrs of video insignificant? yes it was.

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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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amoeba View Post
Perhaps it would make an interesting poll for the site.

I can see from the rest of this thread the core options would be something along;

- Presenters should be made to disclose trading performance before being allowed to share/promote.
- Presenters should NOT be required to disclose any trading performance.
- Presenters should disclose if they are EDUCATIONAL ONLY and not active traders.

How about:
-Only presenters who claim to make money using what they sell should be required to provide evidence for such claims

Otherwise you are including educators/mentors/trading tool sellers et al with snake oil sellers.

Do you/anyone else think vendors such as edgewonk should have to show a statement if they came on here and present their journalling software? Ridiculous.

Caveat emptor anyone? Just a tiny bit of common sense would negate most of this discussion.


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 amoeba 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
How about:
-Only presenters who claim to make money using what they sell should be required to provide evidence for such claims

Otherwise you are including educators/mentors/trading tool sellers et al with snake oil sellers.

Do you/anyone else think vendors such as edgewonk should have to show a statement if they came on here and present their journalling software? Ridiculous.

Caveat emptor anyone? Just a tiny bit of common sense would negate most of this discussion.


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For sure, hence the rest of my posts along this ridiculous thread.

I'm out, what a waste of time.

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 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Do you/anyone else think vendors such as edgewonk should have to show a statement if they came on here and present their journalling software? Ridiculous.

I respectfully disagree with you analogy.

If you buy a performance tracking software you will know in a very short order of time if it delivers what it promises. If it does not do what the company stated it does, you will be calling that vendor and getting technical support to fix the problem or demanding your money back. Otherwise you will post how the product does not work and others will post the same and that company will quickly be out of business.

But the Trading Rooms / Vendors model is unlike any other business I am aware of. Literally making outlandish claims of success while providing no proof to back up any of their claims. Telling you for example, you will make a living off some small account by scalping ES futures off a 5 minute chart.

Then when you spend years and thousands of hours and lose thousands of dollars following their method, you are told the fault is yours. Look at all the failed journals here and the Rock Stars ones can also never show any proof of their claims. This should tell a WISE person something. You just have to listen.

I am going to say something you will never hear from any vendor or from anyone else that I have seen. When you fail at this or any of the other vendors promising pure fantasy and crawl under a rock and think you are just too dumb to get it.

YOU ARE NOT!!!!! It was never about you and your ability to get it. Just like it was not the fault of Bernie Madoff investors. You were scammed!! Pure and simple. The vendor sold you a method that neither he nor anyone else can trade profitable.

In any other business, business owners are proud to show you their work and proof of their claims. But not in this one. If a vendor could truly do what they claim they would gladly show proof and guess what. That vendor would have more business than he knows what to do with.

Lastly keep in mind, some of these trading rooms are raking in millions. They have an incentive to make up a bunch of user names and post fake reviews. That is so easy. What is hard is showing any proof of their claims, which is why I and a few brave others are finally calling them out on it. And guess what I have zero doubt we will never get it. That speaks volumes. And look at the post here. For simple demanding this and other vendors actually show proof of their claims, we are blasted or banned.

Just look at this industry. Dean Handley promotes Open Range Trader as a Trading Titan, yet the investigators finally come in and found he does not trade at all and his track record was completely made up. NT promoting sideways market (also busted by the regulators) and doing no vetting what so ever.

Some people hate Emmett and he sure is no role model, but he is the first one I am aware of that actually went out and asked these vendors to show proof of their claims. I remember one review where he finally just asked the Trading Room to just show 1 day where they traded live and they could not even do that.

It is time to take a stand and clean up this very corrupt industry.

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 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
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If the restaurant owner does not eat his own food.... you know the rest.

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  #248 (permalink)
 teee 
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arafg View Post

Then when you spend years and thousands of hours and lose thousands of dollars following their method, you are told the fault is yours. Look at all the failed journals here and the Rock Stars ones can also never show any proof of their claims. This should tell a WISE person something. You just have to listen.

I am going to say something you will never hear from any vendor or from anyone else that I have seen. When you fail at this or any of the other vendors promising pure fantasy and crawl under a rock and think you are just too dumb to get it.

YOU ARE NOT!!!!! It was never about you and your ability to get it. Just like it was not the fault of Bernie Madoff investors. You were scammed!! Pure and simple. The vendor sold you a method that neither he nor anyone else can trade profitable.



If one believes following vendor can lead to consistent profitability from the first place, one might actually be too dumb to get it.

Its always good if you follow some vendors for the purpose of stimulating ideas or perspectives (or learn the basics as a new trader). But if the intent was ever to follow their method to achieve success, you are doomed to fail. And you are deserved to get "scammed".

Questioning any vendor's creditablity is juz finding excuses for your own failure.

My harsh 2c.



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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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arafg View Post
I respectfully disagree with you analogy.

If you buy a performance tracking software you will know in a very short order of time if it delivers what it promises. If it does not do what the company stated it does, you will be calling that vendor and getting technical support to fix the problem or demanding your money back. Otherwise you will post how the product does not work and others will post the same and that company will quickly be out of business.

But the Trading Rooms / Vendors model is unlike any other business I am aware of. Literally making outlandish claims of success while providing no proof to back up any of their.......

In 2 mins this is a list of similar businesses:
Diet programmes
Certain Organ enlargement solutions
Psychics
Homeopathists / other alternative medicines
'How to be a' in 6 weeks
Timeshares
Online dating
Etc

If i had a tabloid (cheap uk newspaper, though even broadsheets plug them) to hand i could name you 10 more.

Open your eyes perhaps?

Or you have an agenda?










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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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IzhakHaim View Post
If the restaurant owner does not eat his own food.... you know the rest.

I know a guy who runs a gay sauna.

Hes straight. Hates saunas.

Whats your point again?

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 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
In 2 mins this is a list of similar businesses:
Diet programmes
Certain Organ enlargement solutions
Psychics
Homeopathists / other alternative medicines
'How to be a' in 6 weeks
Timeshares
Online dating
Etc

If i had a tabloid (cheap uk newspaper, though even broadsheets plug them) to hand i could name you 10 more.

Open your eyes perhaps?

Or you have an agenda?

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It is hard to respond to all these direct rebuttals and still be perceived by the higher authorities as having a healthy debate. But you are directly quoting me.

First I absolutely have an agenda. To demand these self-proclaimed successful scalpers selling products actual show proof of their claims. I know that is just so radical.

Open my eyes. One of is blind believing what the scammers are pushing and it is not me.

Every business must have some sort of acceptable test of proof. Every business will be different. I cannot go through you entire list but I am in the Real Estate business and let me tell you their are strict laws about timeshares that if you violate you will be prosecuted so fast your head will spin. It is very regulated.

Online dating - Did they promise you would get a 18 year old super model as a girl friend. Because that is basically what the Trading Room claim. I am not really aware they make any claims.



Certain Organ enlargement solutions - well you might have me on that one, but who actually is dumb enough to believe them, plus you will know if it works or not really really fast.

I can not fight to clean up every industry but this falls under the realm of the financial industry. And no mutual fund, hedge fund, CTA or others can go around making false claims. It is a disgrace and needs to end.

Stop and think about it for a second. I am fighting for honest and transparency and what are you fighting for - Deception and scamming people.

BTW doesn't the fact you are putting Day Trading Rooms in the same category as Certain Organ enlargement solutions tell you something?

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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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arafg View Post
Online dating - Did they promise you would get a 18 year old super model as a girl friend. Because that is basically what the Trading Room claim. I am not really aware they make any claims.

Eyes wide shut....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815488/Dating-website-fined-using-fake-computer-generated-profiles-trick-users-spending-paid-memberships.html



So you disagree with one example. Not the others. Thanks for agreeing with me.

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 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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teee View Post
If one believes following vendor can lead to consistent profitability from the first place, one might actually be too dumb to get it.

Its always good if you follow some vendors for the purpose of stimulating ideas or perspectives (or learn the basics as a new trader). But if the intent was ever to follow their method to achieve success, you are doomed to fail. And you are deserved to get "scammed".

Questioning any vendor's creditablity is juz finding excuses for your own failure.

My harsh 2c.



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Again I am responding to a direct quote to me.


"If one believes following vendor can lead to consistent profitability from the first place, one might actually be too dumb to get it.
"

How many times do people have to address this same illogical point. This is what shill say to change the subject. No one and certainly not me is saying you should be able to blindly follow someone.

Let me try another approach. Let say you want to be a real estate investor. You might want to read books by an actual successful real estate investor. That is reasonable. It does not mean you will be successful. But I seriously you want to read book by writers claiming to be successful real estate investor but never invested in real estate in their entire lives or know a single thing about real estate investing. I would want to buy a book by a Real Real Estate investor who busted his ass and made it not some scam artist.

If you do not see the difference I can not explain it.

Do you really think people want to buy trading education or join a trading room from someone that is a con artist (general terms not specific to this thread)??

I tell you want I think. I think people are looking for genuine sources of information and they beleive the trading room or trading course they buy is being delivered by a truly profitable trader. It has nothing to do with blindly following them.

it is just so disheartening when you ask for these Supposedly profitable Day Trading Room operators to actual show proof of their fantasy, and yes most are fantasy, claims there is so much opposition.

What in the world do you think the regulators would do if they actually started to regulate this business. You think a mutual fund can just make up fantasy results?? Absolutely not. They would demand honest and transparent results.

At some point arguing over such an obvious thing is even too draining for me.

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 teee 
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arafg View Post

At some point arguing over such an obvious thing is even too draining for me.


At least we both agree on at least this one point...

Best of luck to your journey in standing up to and cleaning the vendors.
But im good sticking to my journey seeking consistent profitability instead...

im out too.



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 arafg 
Los Angeles, CA
 
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Eyes wide shut....

JDI Dating Ltd fined for using fake computer-generated profiles to trick users | Daily Mail Online



So you disagree with one example. Not the others. Thanks for agreeing with me.

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Even I must admit this is becoming an insane argument. How can you not get it. You are proving my point. That dating site committed fraud and they are going after them. That is the point I am trying to make. Yes any business can commit fraud, who said they cannot?? The regulators have finally awoke up and have gone after Open Range Trader and Sideways Market and I hope they expand to take out every scam artist Trading Room making wild ass claims.

Madoff committed fraud even a heavily regulated business. And day trading is about as regulated as organ enlargements as someone pointed out.

Again I cannot believe I have to defend that these day trading rooms who make fantasy claims need to show proof of their claims. Are you Al Brook's son-in-law. That would explain a lot.

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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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arafg View Post
Even I must admit this is becoming an insane argument. How can you not get it. You are proving my point. That dating site committed fraud and they are going after them. That is the point I am trying to make. Yes any business can commit fraud, who said they cannot?? The regulators have finally awoke up and have gone after Open Range Trader and Sideways Market and I hope they expand to take out every scam artist Trading Room making wild ass claims.

Madoff committed fraud even a heavily regulated business. And day trading is about as regulated as organ enlargements as someone pointed out.

Again I cannot believe I have to defend that these day trading rooms who make fantasy claims need to show proof of their claims. Are you Al Brook's son-in-law. That would explain a lot.


arafg View Post
I am not really aware they make any claims.

They do, repeat:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815488/Dating-website-fined-using-fake-computer-generated-profiles-trick-users-spending-paid-memberships.html


arafg View Post
How can you not get it. You are proving my point. That dating site committed fraud and they are going after them.

Non sequitur...

Repeat:


arafg View Post
But the Trading Rooms / Vendors model is unlike any other business I am aware of. Literally making outlandish claims of success while providing no proof to back up any of their claims.

Challenge: refrain from making default 500 word response to this post

C ya!

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  #257 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016

why you guys make it so complicated?

You sick and looking for a doc. Do you open the yellow pages?? no, You ask for someone with proven record that can help you.

Same with your car mechanic, your dentist, your financial adviser, your accountant.

You want to learn a new subject? you look for a reputable teacher/school, not for the one that placed a big one page ad in the Daily News classified section. You look into the teacher background, his credentials etc.

Will you walk to a store front with a sign: we are financial advisers and say: teach me to make money since you have this big sign in front of your store?

If you do, than for sure you should buy any course from any person that try to sell you their winning formula and there is no need for you to verify if it works for the creator, You will be the one that pay to try and he/she is the winner that gets paid while you find out if it works or not. One of you is for sure 100% the winner. Guess who may not be one at the end of the day.

Some people will always be naive and believe that people are good and there is free lunch. No need to prove anything until we will find out your are a fraud. Tell it to all Madof investors....

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 sharmas 
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Wonder how and when this will end

If you are not happy with this vendor move on or do something

Report them like we did to JJ of Sideways Market

Spend your energies on your trading and yourself and your family

Let it go guys if you are not able to take that next step of reporting a fraudster or if you are just not happy then just move on and find someone else who yo are comfortable with and the style of trading that works for you



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 jodistrict 
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Here is Al Brook's latest video presentation that he gave at the Las Vegas Moneyshow.



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Pedro40
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IzhakHaim View Post
no, You ask for someone with proven record that can help you......Tell it to all Madof investors....

Madoff is actually a bad example here, because he did have a "proven" track record, it just happened to be fake. And he didn't even advertise, he got new investors by word of mouth, just what you advise.

But generally I agree with you, because what you are trying to say (my mind foo at work) is that when you see a pro of any business, you expect that pro to have a license and that he practices his business according to that license, following rules and regulations.

The problem is that there are no such licenses in the trading vendor business and anybody can become an "expert" even if he was previously a plumber or even a doctor. So the bottomline is, you can only judge a vendor by its VERIFIED track record.

Well, there could be one more measurement, the number of profitable followers. So here is an exercise for the curious for the weekend: Go back to the beginning of this thread and you will find a few members vouching for Al's system back in 2015. Then check if the same posters still post here a year later. You will be surprised...

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 DaxyMcDaxFace 
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Pedro40 View Post
Madoff is actually a bad example here, because he did have a "proven" track record, it just happened to be fake. And he didn't even advertise, he got new investors by word of mouth, just what you advise.

But generally I agree with you, because what you are trying to say (my mind foo at work) is that when you see a pro of any business, you expect that pro to have a license and that he practices his business according to that license, following rules and regulations.

The problem is that there are no such licenses in the trading vendor business and anybody can become an "expert" even if he was previously a plumber or even a doctor. So the bottomline is, you can only judge a vendor by its VERIFIED track record.

Well, there could be one more measurement, the number of profitable followers. So here is an exercise for the curious for the weekend: Go back to the beginning of this thread and you will find a few members vouching for Al's system back in 2015. Then check if the same posters still post here a year later. You will be surprised...

Its the pefect example. Even with 'proven' records theres still doubt....and for good reason.

Beyond everyone being given access to the vendors trading account i cant see how providing a statement will placate all suspicion. Mike prob did the best job of transparency.


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 xplorer 
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bobwest View Post
I understand that you are just quoting this.

Whoever wrote it has confirmed an opinion I was starting to form about this whole mess.

I don't think I will share my opinion. It has nothing to do with whether Al Brooks is honest or not. It has a lot to do with the stuff some people are willing to sling at others. WTF?

Bob.

I too am quite surprised that the thread keeps going on as you described above despite some participants having been banned.

It seems to me as well that there is a compelling tendency for some people to have their own beliefs prevailing at all cost, despite most content I have seen tantamount to speculation (in both camps) and nothing more.

I know Mike is on holiday - Perhaps @sam028 can step in and rein in the thread?


Otherwise we truly risk degenerating into the likes of trade2win and so forth.

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Pedro40
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DaxyMcDaxFace View Post
Its the pefect example. Even with 'proven' records theres still doubt....and for good reason. [/URL]

I wanted to edit my post but you already responded so let me clarify: Word of mouth only works if the records are real. In the case of Madoff they were faked although the early birds to the Ponzi got still good returns. It is still a bad example, because nobody is accusing the vendors running a ponzi, they are just suspected not having a real profitable track record.

Now again, if some people say that they got their money's worth in education from the vendor, so be it, but people say that about homeopathy too.

So unless followers can prove that hey look, my trading improved X percent after taking Al's or whoever's course, it is only feelings. And with feelings we usually go to church not to the bank...

In short: Where are the followers' yachts?

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  #264 (permalink)
 sam028 
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xplorer View Post
I too am quite surprised that the thread keeps going on as you described above despite some participants having been banned.

It seems to me as well that there is a compelling tendency for some people to have their own beliefs prevailing at all cost, despite most content I have seen tantamount to speculation (in both camps) and nothing more.

I know Mike is on holiday - Perhaps @sam028 can step in and reign in the thread?


Otherwise we truly risk degenerating into the likes of trade2win and so forth.

AFAIK Mike is able to read the forum from time to time, I let him decide what to do.
This thread started to make me a bit sick few days ago, I decided to avoid reading it for some time and keep calm...

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  #265 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
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I unsubscribed from this thread a few days ago but I thought I would check in...

It appears that all possible angles have been covered in very spirited dialogue. I however, don't believe this topic needs to be discussed further.

Let's wait to see Al Brooks respond to the questions/assumptions about whether or not he trades live for a living and whether or not he is willing to disclose any evidence to support it.

His answer, whatever they may be will almost certainly dictate the future of this thread and probably many others. Whilst I do believe @Big Mike should consider some eligibility/transparency criteria for current and future vendors, it needs to be handled the right way.

So can we all please respectfully agree to disagree. No more posts in this thread until after the Al Brooks webinar in early December?

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 Big Mike 
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arafg has been temporarily banned for a period of two weeks for over the top negative attitude in his comments/posts, against the spirit of the forum.


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  #267 (permalink)
 ktrader 
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arafg View Post
I can not diagree with a fellow Ron Paul supporter.

For individuals that do believe that the Almighty Al needs to show proof of his successful claims, maybe some ideas along that track might be useful. I think it is important that the sites that give him the chance to present his webinars set some type of standard of proof.

Anything can be faked as others have shown, but the more fake documents you show the more likely you will be caught. To me a minimum is either authorizing the broker to disclose his brokerage statement or actually bringing up your account live and showing proof of your claims to the authority that is hosting the webinar. From what I have seen of this industry 99.9% could not pass that test.

Ron Paul is a good guy, too bad you didn't get him as president

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  #268 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016

Will you look to learn to drive and not verify that your teacher knows how to and drive?
Will you go to learn how to play the piano and not listen to the teacher practicing the piano?
Can you get a licence as electrician without work side by side a practicing electrician?
will you listen to a instructions of how to write computer code from someone that dose not have a computer?

So why would you learn how to trade from someone that you did not see he is a real trader????

Anyone wanna buy the Brooklyn bridge?

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  #269 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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IzhakHaim View Post
Will you look to learn to drive and not verify that your teacher knows how to and drive?
Will you go to learn how to play the piano and not listen to the teacher practicing the piano?
Can you get a licence as electrician without work side by side a practicing electrician?
will you listen to a instructions of how to write computer code from someone that dose not have a computer?

So why would you learn how to trade from someone that you did not see he is a real trader????

Anyone wanna buy the Brooklyn bridge?

I do not want to bring politics into this thread. So let's make it hypothetical:

Would you elect a President with no political experience, based on evidence he presents to you that convinced you he could do the job?

Apparently nearly half of American's would answer "yes".

It's been covered before in this thread, the requirement to be a good teacher does not require you are good at what you teach.

Making false claims are a completely different issue and there is no excuse for anyone that lies about their performance for monetary gain.

But the whole teacher thing should be put to rest, the answers are in, voting is done, and it's a near split decision 50/50.

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  #270 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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Big Mike View Post
I do not want to bring politics into this thread. So let's make it hypothetical:

Would you elect a President with no political experience, based on evidence he presents to you that convinced you he could do the job?

Apparently nearly half of American's would answer "yes".

It's been covered before in this thread, the requirement to be a good teacher does not require you are good at what you teach.

Making false claims are a completely different issue and there is no excuse for anyone that lies about their performance for monetary gain.

But the whole teacher thing should be put to rest, the answers are in, voting is done, and it's a near split decision 50/50.

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Are you saying that as long as you're a good teacher you can sell a product that has no proof of being profitable? It could be complete BS but you can peddle it on this site as long as you're good at teaching the BS? Am I reading this correctly?

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  #271 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016

The election is not a good example representing an argument to my opinion above.
I am talking about acquiring skills to perform a task (become a profitable trader) as the person we looking up to learn from and HOW to do the same as he does.

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  #272 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Stray Dog View Post
Are you saying that as long as you're a good teacher you can sell a product that has no proof of being profitable? It could be complete BS but you can peddle it on this site as long as you're good at teaching the BS? Am I reading this correctly?

Nope, not what I'm saying at all and you didn't read it correctly.

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  #273 (permalink)
Pedro40
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Stray Dog View Post
Are you saying that as long as you're a good teacher you can sell a product that has no proof of being profitable? It could be complete BS but you can peddle it on this site as long as you're good at teaching the BS? Am I reading this correctly?

What BM was saying was: "the requirement to be a good teacher does not require you are good at what you teach."

In plain English, one can be a good teacher (of a profitable method) but a lousy trader of it. I called this earlier the "do as I say not as I do" problem.

This was my #3 point in post #232:

"It is basically the case of being a better teacher than a trader."

The ( most likely psychological) reasons could be multiple: not patient enough, taking revenge trades, inconsistency, fear of putting a position on, etc.

Now we usually expect a person to be good at what he is teaching, but that is not always the case. An example would be, hell, if you guys are not getting this, an example won't help.

---------------------------------------------

The guy who got 5 stars from Emmett just opened up a futures trading room , where:

"will analyze charts for the S&P 500 E-Mini, Gold and Oil futures and will place trades and then manage them for maximum profit and minimum risk."

His legal disclaimer is pretty interesting too.

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  #274 (permalink)
 trendwaves 
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Pedro40 View Post
What BM was saying was: "the requirement to be a good teacher does not require you are good at what you teach."

In plain English, one can be a good teacher (of a profitable method) but a lousy trader of it. I called this earlier the "do as I say not as I do" problem.

This was my #3 point in post #232:

"It is basically the case of being a better teacher than a trader."

The ( most likely psychological) reasons could be multiple: not patient enough, taking revenge trades, inconsistency, fear of putting a position on, etc.

Now we usually expect a person to be good at what he is teaching, but that is not always the case. An example would be, hell, if you guys are not getting this, an example won't help.

---------------------------------------------

The guy who got 5 stars from Emmett just opened up a futures trading room , where:

"will analyze charts for the S&P 500 E-Mini, Gold and Oil futures and will place trades and then manage them for maximum profit and minimum risk."

His legal disclaimer is pretty interesting too.

I thought of a couple more good analogies, then like Pedro on second thought concluded another analogy or example isn't going to sway anyone's opinion. As Mike pointed out its about a 50/50 split either way at this point, so for the most part we have each made up our minds and will need new information to change someone's opinion.

Be Patient and Trade Smart
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  #275 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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trendwaves View Post
As Mike pointed out its about a 50/50 split either way at this point, so for the most part we have each made up our minds and will need new information to change someone's opinion.

I pretty much agree, but I'm not sure about the 50/50 split....

I think it's more like this: a very small number of people are very excited and strongly committed to the belief that Al Brooks has been definitely proven to be not a real trader who is lying and ripping people off, and who should be banished everywhere, including here.

Another group, also sort of small, possibly a little larger on this thread, either aren't convinced of the proof, or think the fire and heat is not especially called for. Few of this group are particularly passionate about the subject of Al Brooks and don't see that much to be outraged about, other than the low level this "debate" has sunk to. This has outraged the first group even more.

The vast majority on this forum probably don't have any idea that this fierce little controversy is going on, and don't and won't care one way or the other about it.

The essential irrelevance of this whole thing to most traders' concerns is the most important fact about it.

Bob.

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  #276 (permalink)
 DayTraderinAZ 
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To all those that claim Brooks' materials are a waste, please provide the following:

1) Number of months that you spent in his trading room. Please attach copies of the email payment receipts you received from PayPal for each month you subscribed. (You can block out your info)

2) Proof that you bought his course. (again, block out your info)

3) Receipts showing you purchased Brooks' 3 books on trading.

This tread is all about wanting "PROOF", isn't it? You can't prove how much time you actually spent studying his materials, but you can certainly provide PROOF that you actually bought his course and you paid for his trading room.

If you can't provide proof to back up your opinion, that speaks volumes. Doesn't it?

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  #277 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Only because I have the song "Bushes of Love" stuck in my head all weekend and I need something even more mildly irritating to focus on now.

Emmett (the ex-con) is a stickler about many things but not accurate reporting or thinking or being a decent person. Tip, never let a conman remote to your computer (injection possibility) or give him any personal details like tax records or your brokerage account.

I had a quick scan of the source of the corruption (the last few posts made on the side, the site is unreadable with jumbled chronological sorting) and even over there seemingly sane people are now saying that "Pete" and some others (who might be the same poster) are shills for Al! (and driving them nutty).

Pete and "others" bring him up allegedly every day in every thread possible to keep his name everywhere it is said. The old block-out-the-sun trick. For younger ones, what Trump did. Madness.

Either Pete is Emmett or Emmett is showing no compassion to a mentally ill man on his site . Emmett is not the saint some want to portray him, he would help the "Pete" if he was. It seems others tried and failed.

But look at EM's own Brooks comment attached (highlighted paragraph).

Lets accept $4 per R/T including platform is realistic for students (way cheaper for a lease or seat holder etc.).

So "statistically this is a near impossibility" (26 ES trades a day), what a load of complete crap! Seriously? that is down in writing?

Also he bases his numbers on 264 trading days ($27,456/$104). The NYSE and NASDAQ average about 252 trading days a year Google tells me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_day.

So Emmett cares nothing about accuracy but fake news and fake everything keeps things buzzing for him (and his website SEO) just like the larger media. He is a profitably sloppy outraged mess and others are building on that mess with him as free labor. Infowars would be freaking proud.

He does say as most who have seen Brooks' work have, his basic lessons are fine.

Damn me too and.. Bushes of love is still playing in my head.

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  #278 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016


Rory View Post
Only because I have the song "Bushes of Love" stuck in my head all weekend and I need something even more mildly irritating to focus on now.

Emmett (the ex-con) is a stickler about many things but not accurate reporting or thinking or being a decent person. Tip, never let a conman remote to your computer (injection possibility) or give him any personal details like tax records or your brokerage account.

I had a quick scan of the source of the corruption (the last few posts made on the side, the site is unreadable with jumbled chronological sorting) and even over there seemingly sane people are now saying that "Pete" and some others (who might be the same poster) are shills for Al! (and driving them nutty).

Pete and "others" bring him up allegedly every day in every thread possible to keep his name everywhere it is said. The old block-out-the-sun trick. For younger ones, what Trump did. Madness.

Either Pete is Emmett or Emmett is showing no compassion to a mentally ill man on his site . Emmett is not the saint some want to portray him, he would help the "Pete" if he was. It seems others tried and failed.

But look at EM's own Brooks comment attached (highlighted paragraph).

Lets accept $4 per R/T including platform is realistic for students (way cheaper for a lease or seat holder etc.).

So "statistically this is a near impossibility" (26 ES trades a day), what a load of complete crap! Seriously? that is down in writing?

Also he bases his numbers on 264 trading days ($27,456/$104). The NYSE and NASDAQ average about 252 trading days a year Google tells me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_day.

So King Rat cares nothing about accuracy but fake news and fake everything keeps things buzzing for him (and his website SEO) just like the larger media. He is a profitably sloppy outraged mess and others are building on that mess with him as free labor. Infowars would be freaking proud.

He does say as most who have seen Brooks' work have, his basic lessons are fine.

Damn me too and.. Bushes of love is still playing in my head.

And your point is? No need to verify his trading since you do not trust the critic's person?

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  #279 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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IzhakHaim View Post
And your point is?

And your point is?

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  #280 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016


Rory View Post
And your point is?

So no need to verify his trading records since you do not trust the critic's person?(Emmet)

Like, lets kill the messenger as we do not like the news?

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  #281 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Finished editing? Good.

No pivots this time. The answer to that is obvious, yes, definitely "kill" this particular messenger as he is also a bad actor.

So many posting here, their whole or most involves vendor reviews. Emmett uses fake accounts all the time. hmm..

Here is a hard truth. After speaking with a couple of brokers, only people who have been taught from scratch or were noticeably successful in their careers BEFORE trading (physical injuries like me, early retirees) generally make it.

The great industry deception is that most even had a chance in the first place.

If you want fairness, Futures should be made Pro only so people have to pass regulated exams. It is a shiny ticket to heartache and bitterness for most.

Now can you address something else? Like who is to be trusted to gather all this proof?

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  #282 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
Posts: 66 since Apr 2016


Rory View Post
Finished editing? Good.

No pivots this time. The answer to that is obvious, yes, definitely "kill" this particular messenger as he is also a bad actor.

So many posting here, their whole or most involves vendor reviews. Emmett uses fake accounts all the time. hmm..

Here is a hard truth. After speaking with a couple of brokers, only people who have been taught from scratch or were noticeably successful in their careers BEFORE trading (physical injuries like me, early retirees) generally make it.

The great industry deception is that most even had a chance in the first place.

If you want fairness, Futures should be made Pro only so people have to pass regulated exams. It is a shiny ticket to heartache and bitterness for most.

Now can you address something else? Like who is to be trusted to gather all this proof?

So it sound you clear yourself as one that made it. Nice. Why should we give a $*8?Do you share profits with us? do you like to teach us to be profitable like you? Please do. Let me see how good u are in live trading and I will do my best to get you to teach me...

No need to see your bank account of broker records. Just call the in/out trades in real time and we can count +/- points daily. Deal? if you do not, cannot, don't want too, maybe you should not criticizes/support others that never call trade live.

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  #283 (permalink)
 Seahn 
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Rory View Post
hmm..

hmm... are the shills among us... hmm...

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  #284 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Pivot. I said no pivots so in fairness I don't need to respond.

Anyone else on the who to be trusted with all the proof of live trading question?

I'll have to re-post my original soon to stop it dropping back in the thread, that old trick eh?

Sam, I'm happy to stop but I think we can finish this.

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  #285 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
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Rory View Post
Pivot. I said no pivots so in fairness I don't need to respond.

Anyone else on the who to be trusted with all the proof of live trading question?

I'll have to re-post my original soon to stop it dropping back in the thread, that old trick eh?

Sam, I'm happy to stop but I think we can finish this.

I posted above a few time calling not to listen to so called "gurus" like Al that do not call live trades and do not show trading accounts for live trading. Good luck with whatever you sell.

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  #286 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Anyone want to buy what I'm selling?

This is one of "Pete's" recent posts, enraged in all caps. Sounds like a well man? This is in response to some lady trying to give advice on obsessive posting to someone else?

Would a good man let people get this messed up and obsessive without intervening? I suspect outrage is profitable.

I ask again, politey:

Anyone else on the who to be trusted with all the proof of live trading question?

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  #287 (permalink)
 IzhakHaim 
white plains new york
 
 
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Rory View Post


I ask again, politey:

Anyone else on the who to be trusted with all the proof of live trading question?

You???

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  #288 (permalink)
 jodistrict 
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This thread was started for review of Al's course, and it has been hijacked by those with an agenda which in my opinion is not for the benefit of traders on this site. I read the review on the trading schools site ("Emmett") and it is beyond ridiculous. The review doesn't have one fact. It is just bloviated opinions and the conclusion that Al is a charlatan because the reviewer says so. Why does anyone believe this clown over a long time respected educator who has explained his approach in three books ? You can read Al's material for yourself and see if it works or not. Perhaps Al's competition wants him out of the way because he is giving away more real information in his free presentations than they do in their $5000 courses.

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 IzhakHaim 
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jodistrict View Post
This thread was started for review of Al's course, and it has been hijacked by those with an agenda which in my opinion is not for the benefit of traders on this site. I read the review on the trading schools site ("Emmett") and it is beyond ridiculous. The review doesn't have one fact. It is just bloviated opinions and the conclusion that Al is a charlatan because the reviewer says so. Why does anyone believe this clown over a long time respected educator who has explained his approach in three books ? You can read Al's material for yourself and see if it works or not. Perhaps Al's competition wants him out of the way because he is giving away more real information in his free presentations than they do in their $5000 courses.

Wanna buy a bridge?

I can give you free presentations, pictures from all sides, free booklet about its history, can arrange for you a virtual tour, etc.

BTW, I have the deed but I will not show it to you...

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  #290 (permalink)
 Stray Dog 
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Pedro40 View Post
What BM was saying was: "the requirement to be a good teacher does not require you are good at what you teach."

In plain English, one can be a good teacher (of a profitable method) but a lousy trader of it. I called this earlier the "do as I say not as I do" problem.

This was my #3 point in post #232:

"It is basically the case of being a better teacher than a trader."

The ( most likely psychological) reasons could be multiple: not patient enough, taking revenge trades, inconsistency, fear of putting a position on, etc.

Now we usually expect a person to be good at what he is teaching, but that is not always the case. An example would be, hell, if you guys are not getting this, an example won't help.

---------------------------------------------

The guy who got 5 stars from Emmett just opened up a futures trading room , where:

"will analyze charts for the S&P 500 E-Mini, Gold and Oil futures and will place trades and then manage them for maximum profit and minimum risk."

His legal disclaimer is pretty interesting too.

No I get it but what you guys don't seem to get is that the vendor of said education product should be able to demonstrate that he does trade and that he should be able to trade it profitably otherwise why is he/she selling something that even he/she can't make money with. Is that clear enough for you or do you require an example?

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  #291 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Stray Dog View Post
No I get it but what you guys don't seem to get is that the vendor of said education product should be able to demonstrate that he does trade and that he should be able to trade it profitably otherwise why is he/she selling something that even he/she can't make money with. Is that clear enough for you or do you require an example?

Stray Dog, respectfully is it got, it is got a dozen times over.

People are just ignoring the point to wind you TS posting guys up or they think about it and cannot answer to themselves who watches the watchman? Mike has to make a subjective judgement call based on his personal experience but you don't trust this, Emmett makes a call of some kind, but he is not acceptable to many.

Who can Emmett and Mike (or anyone in trading) have independently verify this "proof" from vendor XYZ? And of course not me. Emmett has reviews to write and sorely needs greater legitimacy, Mike has webinars to post.

How can it be done in practical terms that are legally and ethically sound, acceptable to all people? Regular re-checks would be required, time is money. US regulators are often painfully slow, can the CTFC take this role? How to lobby/fund?

Maybe start an appropriate thread? You can then block me immediately if you wish

Please don't pivot though? It is not much to ask if this is a real discussion.

Edit: Insta-pivot. The constant pivoting to another angle does nothing to broaden the discussion. @Stray Dog, you paid your dollars to be here (as it were) and can see who is who in the Elite areas so have a good view. What do you think?


emini2000 View Post
While anyone would defend a vendor that wouldn't furnish proof of their success if they are claiming to be a successful trader is beyond me. It really is mind boggling.

Nobody is seriously defending that point, *straw man. Please, furnish what proof (that cannot be faked) to who? Take it the next logical step with details.

Edit2: @IzhakHaim I am not sure how to read what you posted before however I make live calls/suggestions when I am confident I'm not going to hurt beginner accounts with drawdown. I made a big one just today but in an Elite thread where I hang out with my friends. We chat, it is a friendly place.


*"Debaters invoke a straw man when they put forth an argument—usually something extreme or easy to argue against—that they know their opponent doesn't support. You put forth a straw man because you know it will be easy for you to knock down or discredit. It's a way of misrepresenting your opponent's position."

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  #292 (permalink)
emini2000
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The question is this: Doesn't anyone thinking about joining a trading room have a right to know if the person running the room is trading successfully themselves? Do they have a right to ask for proof? Account statements, trade records, etc? Yes they do. Does the room owner have a right to decline? Yes. But why would they if they were successful? It's that simple.

An innocent 10 year old kid can ask for proof from Al or any vendor (as opposed to a former con himself that 'can't be trusted'). It doesn't matter who is asking the question. Either they well do it or they won't. And if they don't, then you have legitimate right to question the honesty and veracity of their claims. Either put up or shut up.

I bet there aren't 1 out of 1000 rooms out there that trade successfully so you could make a living by being in their room. And with the claims most of them make, that makes most of them outright dishonest. Doesn't matter how nice a guy they are, how much you like their books or teaching, etc. This industry has to be one of the most dishonest and least transparent on the internet. And if you don't think so, then you haven't been around the block and burned enough yet. And if you don't think so, just ask for proof of success.

While anyone would defend a vendor that wouldn't furnish proof of their success if they are claiming to be a successful trader is beyond me. It really is mind boggling.

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  #293 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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Rory View Post
Nobody is seriously defending that point, *straw man. Please, furnish what proof (that cannot be faked) to who? Take it the next logical step with details.

That argument is a *straw man. It's irrelevant. The proof isn't being furnished, real or fake.

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  #294 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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emini2000 View Post
Thatargument is a *straw man. It's irrelevant. The proof isn't being furnished, real or fake.

Just up because of a local plane crash news and checking my swing trades.

Lets accept that it has not been given to Emmett or asked for by BM, Al Brooks is presenting soon here soon and may or may not address it. You yourself said he is just "1 out of 1000 rooms".

What proof (that cannot be faked) and who is the authority to receive this do you believe? Practical details would help a lot and maybe settle things?

It is not a trick, I don't see an elegant answer but there may be one.

Here is a link back to where I jumped in to help with context for people just seeing this now.

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  #295 (permalink)
davidtaylor
London, United Kingdom
 
 
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Rory View Post
What proof (that cannot be faked) and who is the authority to receive this do you believe? Practical details would help a lot and maybe settle things?

I have had a hard time following this thread and wasn't sure if your question was hypothetical until that post so,

Proof that cannot be faked

Record trading screen.

Show DOM to show the trades are live and occurring in the actual market.

Show time and date.

At the start of the recording, show yesterdays brokerage statement for additional transparency.

During the recording, show that it's live within your platform for additional transparency.

This is very easy to do, I do it myself, not sure if it's a generational thing but this it's really common to record your screens because of gaming.

Stream it live to YouTube.

Who?

Anybody who wants to can access the recordings, live or afterwards on YouTube.

This would show that somebody trades the methodology they are selling, trades live and their profit and loss.

If Al Brooks live streamed himself in this manner, scalping the ES with 20-30 trades and sometimes having no losing trades (as he claims he often does) and showed the brokerage statement the next day in the morning I wouldn't have any doubts myself that he is an amazing trader.

I know two traders who show their live trading on YouTube, one even shows their brokerage statements.

It's only an idea, it might have flaws that I've missed.

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  #296 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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@davidtaylor

Thanks for that. Everyone has a hard time getting to grasp with this thread, it is one of those "circular firing squads" IMHO but loops can be closed. The TS thread on this is huge also(harder to read as the posts are not simply ordered).

I believe this discussion should have a thread.

We can discuss the vendors who do it right, you know some you said. Clearly a clever (bad) vendor will up his game to defeat the proof system and gain even more trust from the unwary we know that. However maybe if we put our heads together we can help weary beginners and break this thread loop.

Any suggestions on the name for the thread? I believe as @emini2000 and @Stray Dog have shown a strong interest in the matter their opinions are important.

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  #297 (permalink)
 theprophe 
prague,czech republic
 
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This is my general take on trading education/rooms al brooks included.

First of all, almost all educators are outright scams, or traders that can't make it trading and have turned to education for a living. So finding someone real is very difficult and mostly happens through relationships or being involved in the trading community like this one being interactive with each other and maybe someone successful will take you under his/her wing.

Most traders who have been in the game for awhile realize there is no room to join that you can piggyback their trades and be succesfull and have stopped looking and instead look within themselves to develop or modify others strategies.So they don't really care about some educator showing their brokerage statements, they are not interested anyways.

The novice traders are still looking for the holy grail in rooms and are willing to spend money looking. No one will show you their brokerage statements. The faster a novice realizes their money is best spent by not spending and by reading all the free stuff you can on places like here and looking at journals of other traders and maybe trying something like that on sim and watching the market and doing homework everyday. keeping a journal of your sim trades, seeing what works and what doesn't,maybe you will figure something out.

Trading is journey,not a race, preserve capital, and when you have something statistically working for you with enough sample size, put that money you save to work and go for it, always watching risk. Because just having a statistical advantage is not enough, now you have to have the physcological understanding to make it work.

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  #298 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
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Thanks @theprophe

With due respect and your points are fair, you can see this thread started with an Al Brooks review and got badly off topic. People just do not read back and add more entries, the page moves on, it grows due to a forum loop.

This does not happen in the elite section as people know each other better.

Can we move to a new (non-elite) thread in the vendor section?

repeating: Any suggestions on the name for the thread? I believe as @emini2000 and @Stray Dog have shown a strong interest in the matter their opinions are important. Of course @jodistrict and others too.

Again, to try and close the loop, here is where I started yesterday. Also the "ex-con" comment is not name-calling, he is and says himself he is not to be trusted.

I'm on Eastern time, I need a couple of hours sleep so I'll take 90/100 ticks on that CL move since 8pm. TBC

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  #299 (permalink)
 xplorer 
Site Moderator
London UK
 
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Rory View Post
I believe this discussion should have a thread.

We can discuss the vendors who do it right, you know some you said. Clearly a clever (bad) vendor will up his game to defeat the proof system and gain even more trust from the unwary we know that. However maybe if we put our heads together we can help weary beginners and break this thread loop.

Any suggestions on the name for the thread?

Rory I think it's a great idea.

Most of the comments I've read on here don't really pertain to Al Brooks trading course review (of which I'd like to remind people this thread is about).

They deal mostly with the concept of "if you can't do it, should you teach it?".


Maybe an apt name for the thread could be "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Debate".

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  #300 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
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xplorer View Post
Maybe an apt name for the thread could be "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Debate".

Perhaps though the challenge of meaningful, believable proof validation is demurred.

I'm a tech guy, I recon I can fake nearly anything (even live) however extremes never help. We know the more money is concentrated by the chaff schools being discarded so the more specialist the scammer will get. Monopolies are also bad. Supply/Demand balance.

I spoke to a friend (small trader) who moderates a large open forum, he said it is harder than trading sometimes and the election has everyone extra touchy. He changes the thread colour to indicate it is gone into a loop/unhealthy state.

Maybe a pic? But moderator inserted not just by everyone.

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