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Should vendors be allowed to become Elite Members?
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Should vendors be allowed to become Elite Members?

  #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
St. Petersburg, Fl
 
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Elite Vendors

Last April I was in Roger Felton's trading room for about 4 weeks. At one point he said he was working with volumn indicators and called them "proprietary" and would not show these charts or indicators in his free trading room. At one point he was talking to Clint, his assistant, and called these indicators by name--Gomi.

Here is a man that was charging $3,500 up front than $300 per month for his indicators. But yet he called Gomi's work Proprietary. He did not code these and they were not even his idea.

Roger wqs an elite member and has done two seminars for futures.io (formerly BMT). As it is, it is easy enough to take any indicator and sell it as your own. I do not believe that elite vendors will prevent the theft of indicators, but will have the opposite effect. We are giving these for profit companies the keys to the front door.

It would be great if a professional wants to educate us with unbiased information. I am not sure how to seperate the information from a soft sell of his services.

Keep things as simple as possible, but no simplier. Albert Einstein
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  #32 (permalink)
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ollie View Post
Last April I was in Roger Felton's trading room for about 4 weeks. At one point he said he was working with volumn indicators and called them "proprietary" and would not show these charts or indicators in his free trading room. At one point he was talking to Clint, his assistant, and called these indicators by name--Gomi.

Here is a man that was charging $3,500 up front than $300 per month for his indicators. But yet he called Gomi's work Proprietary. He did not code these and they were not even his idea.

Roger wqs an elite member and has done two seminars for futures.io (formerly BMT). As it is, it is easy enough to take any indicator and sell it as your own. I do not believe that elite vendors will prevent the theft of indicators, but will have the opposite effect. We are giving these for profit companies the keys to the front door.

It would be great if a professional wants to educate us with unbiased information. I am not sure how to seperate the information from a soft sell of his services.

I attended one of Roger Felton's webinars a few weeks ago because it was touting his awesome new Renko bars. The moment I saw the bars I realized, (in my sole opinion), they were an implementation of @RJay's bars. To be fair, I'm sure they didn't steal RJay's code, but just implemented an idea that was not originally their own. But I think it still illustrates, that if a piece of code is only available to an 'elite', then someone is gonna steal or reverse-engineer it and sell it to the 'non-elite'. To deter them from doing it, you have to make it available freely to all, only then will no one be willing to pay for it.

I think there are 2 distinct issues here. How do you entice people to become elite members? and how do you deter people from stealing elite code? I think elite threads and webinars is the answer to the first question, and making all indicators available to everyone is the answer to the second.


Last edited by monpere; September 12th, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
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  #33 (permalink)
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monpere's on the right track: define your problem and discover your solution.

Problem: vendors steal code from futures.io (formerly BMT) and sell it
Victim: Not us, really, but the poor schmoe who just bought a repackaged indicator.
Solution: make all indicators freely available, and make an effort to let that fact be known far and wide.
Mission: Stick it to the unscrupulous on behalf of the unsuspecting
Roadblock: there is a sucker born every minute
Unintended Consequences: people will need other reasons to become an elite member besides indicators, or people might be less inclined to share code if they know it's going to quickly be all over the internet.

So the real questions are:

1) Can Mike entice elite members without indicators? (That's a question for Mike, really, but monpere had some ideas)
2) Would people share less code if code were freely available?
3) And does that matter?

As far as the second question is concerned: ask the productive members.

And as far as the third question is concerned: my personal view is that it doesn't really matter. Right now I think the way futures.io (formerly BMT) is constructed works for its mission. It's a place not to collaborate on an edge, but to get an education: to see the baloney debunked, to ferret out the successful traders and take them as models, to discover different styles of trading, to pick up some technological skill.

It's the water to which the horse is led but cannot be made to drink. And Mike has already done a good job of making sure that vendors don't poison the well.

-RK

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  #34 (permalink)
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Vendors

Mike i think you'll realize after reading through the commentaries that restricting vendors of elite membership would not solve the pirating mentioned. A number of vendors here have made great presentations and their insight has helped many. Its pretty obvious that a number of vendors have taken ideas here and put there own twist to say.

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  #35 (permalink)
Elite, not Elitist :)
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ollie View Post
Last April I was in Roger Felton's trading room for about 4 weeks. At one point he said he was working with volumn indicators and called them "proprietary" and would not show these charts or indicators in his free trading room. At one point he was talking to Clint, his assistant, and called these indicators by name--Gomi.

Here is a man that was charging $3,500 up front than $300 per month for his indicators. But yet he called Gomi's work Proprietary. He did not code these and they were not even his idea.

Roger wqs an elite member and has done two seminars for futures.io (formerly BMT). As it is, it is easy enough to take any indicator and sell it as your own. I do not believe that elite vendors will prevent the theft of indicators, but will have the opposite effect. We are giving these for profit companies the keys to the front door.

It would be great if a professional wants to educate us with unbiased information. I am not sure how to seperate the information from a soft sell of his services.

To be fair (I am a member of Roger's room and have his software) - they do mention that they sometimes use the GOMI indicator but they say it by name and tell the folks they can go to futures.io (formerly BMT) to get it. It is clearly listed as a separate item you can choose to download (from futures.io (formerly BMT)) when you download Roger's DivPro software. I haven't been to Roger's room in months, but I assume it is still presented the same way. And it wasn't used on the charts when I was there.

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  #36 (permalink)
Elite, not Elitist :)
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I think that vendors should be allowed to become Elite members as several of them do provide good info and sometimes indicators. I agree with the blacklist policy several have mentioned.

Mike, did you create a poll for this? Sorry if I missed it.

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  #37 (permalink)
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Hello futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite members ,

Ninjatrader.com has the same issue than BigMike for the code related to indicators and Strategies which is posted (hosted) by forum members in their Support forum as per this link :

Links and Downloads Manager - NinjaTrader Support Forum,


I think the code can be freely used outside the elite like GPL product .. but this mean not sold by an elite member/vendor.

Just mt 2 cents.

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  #38 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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rk142 View Post
...It's the water to which the horse is led but cannot be made to drink. And Mike has already done a good job of making sure that vendors don't poison the well.

-RK

Thanks, i think this is a great analogy. There are problems for which there is no single solution and stealing is one of them. futures.io (formerly BMT) should instead focus on its mission and emphasize education and how to develop trading expertise. The importance of indicators should be minimized although i suspect most people become elite member to have access to specific indicators.

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  #39 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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A solution to end this Discussion

Let everyone in to enjoy the free range, but if vendors steal then publicly blacklist them on top of the home page like the State Department's list of terrorist groups. Hard to get off that list with the public and 35k futures.io (formerly BMT) members watching.

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  #40 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
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As long as we post open source code... it will make it's way across the internet ... but at least if they have to be elite to gain access ... it helps support the site...

I say we keep Elite just like it is....


But then again .... @mattz was mean to me in another thread ... so I want to change my vote about vendors...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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