Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu - Trading Reviews and Vendors | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu
Updated: Views / Replies:47,836 / 193
Created: by jet9jockey Attachments:22

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 22  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu

  #81 (permalink)
Elite Member
virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cory's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,198 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 627 given, 6,285 received


opentrdr View Post
This is what Ed said this morning-

I am a great trader

I am a great boxer (he is into karate)

I am a great swimmer

I am a great runner

That is the truth. He is an exact definition of someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

he could be a great painter

Attached Thumbnails
Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu-normalmouseover-3-.jpg  
Reply With Quote
 
  #82 (permalink)
Elite Member
london uk
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
tellytub's Avatar
 
Posts: 409 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 333 given, 118 received


cory View Post
he could be a great painter

even that can be faked

Reply With Quote
 
  #83 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, CA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
Tiger45's Avatar
 
Posts: 309 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 203 given, 422 received


In my first post, I gave my opinion of my time spent in the Jaguar Club. My conclusion was that the course itself, being very non-traditional, was a big disappointment, but the bottom line was that I thought Ed was a good trader and had something to offer, although perhaps he was just a poor teacher. It was entirely my fault for not succeeding. Ed was always generous with his time, never saying he was too busy to do a one-on-one with me.

I really worked hard. I've attached my notes on the vids I watched, 20+ pages. Some vids I watched more than once. I did endless bar-by-bar analysis and market replays. I would print out Ed's trades and do replay on them, stopping where he entered and try to see what he was doing. Sometimes it was obvious, like a break out, but often it just didn't make any sense to me. I would ask him about it and he would just say I couldn't trade like him or see things the way he did because I didn't have the experience. A very believable response. I kept working.
After all, Ed was posting winning trade after winning trade in near real time. How could he possibly fake that? Well, as @arafg and @opentrdr pointed out, it's possible. I even did it myself. I was stunned how easy it was to create a winning trade list in real time from live sim.

All the red flags were there to be seen, but I ignored them. Many were pointed out by arafg, but there are many others.

  • The few trade setups he calls out in the room are not his. He did not develop the Tap & Go, the Golden Boy, or the Silver Boy. Those were done by someone else. His only 2 pattern setups are the 3BR (which he's posted himself on futures.io (formerly BMT)) and the Balance Trade (an infrequent time-based setup).
  • When you join, you're going to get a few cluttered PDF's showing indicators no longer used, and trade setups no longer talked about. It's very clear that these documents were produced years ago with no new additions. These are his trade setups. This is the "documentation" he occasionally references.
  • As pointed out numerous times, his on-mic results are no where close to the 90% or better results he posts. In fact, if you look back over his posts, most of his losers are made between the hours of 8am - 10:30am when he's usually on the mic.
  • Once in a trade, he gets "squirmy", for lack of a better description. He shows none of the confidence you would expect from someone with a 90% win rate, claiming to make in excess of $10K per week, every week (no losing days that I can remember in a year).
  • After a losing trade or two, he will try to get a student to take the mic, saying he doesn't want to give anything back (it's not endless winning). When asked why he doesn't switch to sim and keep trading (we all want to watch and learn), he says that he doesn't trade sim. It's a step backwards. Even though his web site clearly says that all his trades are sim, and today in the room he said he does trade cash and sim (first I ever heard that). Usually there will be more winning trades on his blog after he surrenders the mic, showing that he kept trading.

  • The course itself is designed to wear you down. You don't trade for a month. Just watch. You go through hundreds of hours of video, exceedingly redundant, and some just showing screen setups. You can see for yourself what to expect in the free video section of his web site. What you see there is all you're going to get, except hundreds of hours of it. If you think being a member is going to get you access to information that you can't get from his site for free, or get from a free trial subscription to his room, you're wrong. What you see in the room is all there is. He may say that Friday's are for students only, but there is nothing additional going on.
  • When you ask Ed for help, he tells you to do more BBB and replay. When you do and still don't get the results and ask for help, he tells you to do more BBB and replay. And so it goes. If you can't get to the magic 30 speed, you haven't followed the course outline.
  • When you do a BBB with Ed, he may sudenly say "go long now", or "go short now", or "add to the postion". His trade calls are nothing short of incredible. He holds runners and knows when to close them or hide behind a box. Almost like he's looking at the complete chart. BTW, he NEVER adds to a position in the room, and I have seen no indication of him adding to a winning position on his blog, although he will occasionally average down in a trade.

And of course the biggest red flag of them all, why would a guy who's over 60 years old with small children, who can make $20K per week in his pajamas, even WANT to waste his time running a room, let alone offer a discount?

Up until now, the little child in me wanted to believe that there was this hugely successful trader that was offering me his time and would stick with me as long as I didn't give up. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that this was all an intentional, deliberate fraud, set up to do nothing but take my money. I really didn't want to believe that.

And after these new postings were brought to Ed's attention in the room, he didn't seem to understand what he was being accused of. A person named Hous bin Pharteen (love that!) pointed out that he was being accused of fraud, and that he could quickly dispel that notion by either showing his DOM when he traded, or posting an image of it on his blog. He staunchly refused to do that.

He claimed that he didn't want people ruining his trades. Regardless of the fact that he uses the chart trader feature with limit orders, and anyone in the room could see where his trade was going to be. And by posting a detailed list of his trades with time stamps, any malicious traders with computer skills could figure out his secrets. He's already posted all the real sensitive stuff. There is no reason not to post a picture of his DOM, with no active trades on it - EXCEPT HE CANNOT FILTER OUT THE P&L.

I was appalled that Ed refused to show his DOM. I still find it hard to believe. He won't even post an image of it along with his trade list.

So Ed, if you're reading this, here's what you can do. Show an image of your DOM along with your trade list. This is not devulging any new information or secrets. Also show the ATM Strategy and MAE columms in your trade list. This will prove to us nay-sayers that you are real. If you are real, I'll apologize in public and buy one of your paintings from your web site. You know, the web site where you say you TEACH day trading for a living.

Edwin Abreu - About the Artist

In the room today, after the accusations were made, Ed said he didn't have to prove anything to anyone. Maybe you, prospective student, should take Ed at his word.


Jaguar52 View Post
Actually, you are right. I don't have a system... I can offer this piece of counsel. Do not take anyone's word or advice about anything concerning this business, including mine, unless you have done your own research. If you start out being brain lazy and do not do a significant amount of personal due diligence about this business then you will have a long, hard, difficult, and costly time of it.

Time for a beer.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Tiger45 for this post:
 
  #84 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, CA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
Tiger45's Avatar
 
Posts: 309 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 203 given, 422 received

BTW, Ed just locked down his website with new passwords and sent this email out to his students. Does this look like someone who is transparent and has nothing to hide? Remember, he makes over $2k per day before you even get up for breakfast. Except now you need a password to see it.

*************
From Ed's email:

"It has come to my attention that today's education session was posted in pieces and highly misrepresented as to what was said with a lot of what was not said... some really crazy gross distortions. Also a lot of gross distortions of the results of the snagit posts.

So, there are a lot of disgruntled traders in the club. So, I am going to try and make it easy for you who are not able to understand this approach. Here is the fix - go find some other way to trade.

It has and always was posted clearly what this was all about. Go read it (the club blog and the education blog) again more carefully. Stop wasting your energy on this (and dooming so many to travel down your rocky path over at BMF). Spend your energy on your search for what can work for you, because this approach obviously does not.

I am only going to let in those members who contact me via email and ask to return to remain in the club.

I am also changing all passwords for blog access, snagit and video libraries. If you want access, contact me via skype or email.

For all communication, I will need your full name, your email on record for the future, and the date you joined.

Thanks, Ed"


Last edited by Tiger45; December 10th, 2014 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Added quotes to clarify the content.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Tiger45 for this post:
 
  #85 (permalink)
Elite member
Hertfordshire England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: DAX
 
pvlee's Avatar
 
Posts: 92 since May 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 164 received


cory View Post
he could be a great painter

Ha, Ha.. His art work is worse than his trading

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to pvlee for this post:
 
  #86 (permalink)
Elite Member
Concord, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts and NT7
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Mini's and CL
 
Posts: 225 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 918 given, 272 received

@Tiger45, great follow up. Your whole experience was the same as mine about 4 years ago. Sorry to see nothing has changed, and looks like it never will. If people read your posts and still pay, its on them. The so-called system charts I had where of Blue Wave indicators, when he was using BBT indicators. His setups were not even the same he was teaching. Some aspects were, but when someone pays you to take a class and the material is 3-5 years dated, what good is that. The only good is what you stated, just to wear you down. Thank you-Mark


Tiger45 View Post
In my first post, I gave my opinion of my time spent in the Jaguar Club. My conclusion was that the course itself, being very non-traditional, was a big disappointment, but the bottom line was that I thought Ed was a good trader and had something to offer, although perhaps he was just a poor teacher. It was entirely my fault for not succeeding. Ed was always generous with his time, never saying he was too busy to do a one-on-one with me.

I really worked hard. I've attached my notes on the vids I watched, 20+ pages. Some vids I watched more than once. I did endless bar-by-bar analysis and market replays. I would print out Ed's trades and do replay on them, stopping where he entered and try to see what he was doing. Sometimes it was obvious, like a break out, but often it just didn't make any sense to me. I would ask him about it and he would just say I couldn't trade like him or see things the way he did because I didn't have the experience. A very believable response. I kept working.
After all, Ed was posting winning trade after winning trade in near real time. How could he possibly fake that? Well, as @arafg and @opentrdr pointed out, it's possible. I even did it myself. I was stunned how easy it was to create a winning trade list in real time from live sim.

All the red flags were there to be seen, but I ignored them. Many were pointed out by arafg, but there are many others.

  • The few trade setups he calls out in the room are not his. He did not develop the Tap & Go, the Golden Boy, or the Silver Boy. Those were done by someone else. His only 2 pattern setups are the 3BR (which he's posted himself on futures.io (formerly BMT)) and the Balance Trade (an infrequent time-based setup).
  • When you join, you're going to get a few cluttered PDF's showing indicators no longer used, and trade setups no longer talked about. It's very clear that these documents were produced years ago with no new additions. These are his trade setups. This is the "documentation" he occasionally references.
  • As pointed out numerous times, his on-mic results are no where close to the 90% or better results he posts. In fact, if you look back over his posts, most of his losers are made between the hours of 8am - 10:30am when he's usually on the mic.
  • Once in a trade, he gets "squirmy", for lack of a better description. He shows none of the confidence you would expect from someone with a 90% win rate, claiming to make in excess of $10K per week, every week (no losing days that I can remember in a year).
  • After a losing trade or two, he will try to get a student to take the mic, saying he doesn't want to give anything back (it's not endless winning). When asked why he doesn't switch to sim and keep trading (we all want to watch and learn), he says that he doesn't trade sim. It's a step backwards. Even though his web site clearly says that all his trades are sim, and today in the room he said he does trade cash and sim (first I ever heard that). Usually there will be more winning trades on his blog after he surrenders the mic, showing that he kept trading.

  • The course itself is designed to wear you down. You don't trade for a month. Just watch. You go through hundreds of hours of video, exceedingly redundant, and some just showing screen setups. You can see for yourself what to expect in the free video section of his web site. What you see there is all you're going to get, except hundreds of hours of it. If you think being a member is going to get you access to information that you can't get from his site for free, or get from a free trial subscription to his room, you're wrong. What you see in the room is all there is. He may say that Friday's are for students only, but there is nothing additional going on.
  • When you ask Ed for help, he tells you to do more BBB and replay. When you do and still don't get the results and ask for help, he tells you to do more BBB and replay. And so it goes. If you can't get to the magic 30 speed, you haven't followed the course outline.
  • When you do a BBB with Ed, he may sudenly say "go long now", or "go short now", or "add to the postion". His trade calls are nothing short of incredible. He holds runners and knows when to close them or hide behind a box. Almost like he's looking at the complete chart. BTW, he NEVER adds to a position in the room, and I have seen no indication of him adding to a winning position on his blog, although he will occasionally average down in a trade.

And of course the biggest red flag of them all, why would a guy who's over 60 years old with small children, who can make $20K per week in his pajamas, even WANT to waste his time running a room, let alone offer a discount?

Up until now, the little child in me wanted to believe that there was this hugely successful trader that was offering me his time and would stick with me as long as I didn't give up. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that this was all an intentional, deliberate fraud, set up to do nothing but take my money. I really didn't want to believe that.

And after these new postings were brought to Ed's attention in the room, he didn't seem to understand what he was being accused of. A person named Hous bin Pharteen (love that!) pointed out that he was being accused of fraud, and that he could quickly dispel that notion by either showing his DOM when he traded, or posting an image of it on his blog. He staunchly refused to do that.

He claimed that he didn't want people ruining his trades. Regardless of the fact that he uses the chart trader feature with limit orders, and anyone in the room could see where his trade was going to be. And by posting a detailed list of his trades with time stamps, any malicious traders with computer skills could figure out his secrets. He's already posted all the real sensitive stuff. There is no reason not to post a picture of his DOM, with no active trades on it - EXCEPT HE CANNOT FILTER OUT THE P&L.

I was appalled that Ed refused to show his DOM. I still find it hard to believe. He won't even post an image of it along with his trade list.

So Ed, if you're reading this, here's what you can do. Show an image of your DOM along with your trade list. This is not devulging any new information or secrets. Also show the ATM Strategy and MAE columms in your trade list. This will prove to us nay-sayers that you are real. If you are real, I'll apologize in public and buy one of your paintings from your web site. You know, the web site where you say you TEACH day trading for a living.

Edwin Abreu - About the Artist

In the room today, after the accusations were made, Ed said he didn't have to prove anything to anyone. Maybe you, prospective student, should take Ed at his word.



Time for a beer.


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tradermark2009 for this post:
 
  #87 (permalink)
Elite Member
Phoenix, AZ
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2014
Thanks: 77 given, 34 received

Artwork?


pvlee View Post
Ha, Ha.. His art work is worse than his trading

I second that! Artwork? I have seen better from a 2 year old.

Reply With Quote
 
  #88 (permalink)
Elite Member
Phoenix, AZ
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: CL, ES
 
Posts: 15 since Oct 2014
Thanks: 77 given, 34 received


Tiger45 View Post
BTW, Ed just locked down his website with new passwords and sent this email out to his students. Does this look like someone who is transparent and has nothing to hide? Remember, he makes over $2k per day before you even get up for breakfast. Except now you need a password to see it.

*************
From Ed's email:

"It has come to my attention that today's education session was posted in pieces and highly misrepresented as to what was said with a lot of what was not said... some really crazy gross distortions. Also a lot of gross distortions of the results of the snagit posts.

So, there are a lot of disgruntled traders in the club. So, I am going to try and make it easy for you who are not able to understand this approach. Here is the fix - go find some other way to trade.

It has and always was posted clearly what this was all about. Go read it (the club blog and the education blog) again more carefully. Stop wasting your energy on this (and dooming so many to travel down your rocky path over at BMF). Spend your energy on your search for what can work for you, because this approach obviously does not.

I am only going to let in those members who contact me via email and ask to return to remain in the club.

I am also changing all passwords for blog access, snagit and video libraries. If you want access, contact me via skype or email.

For all communication, I will need your full name, your email on record for the future, and the date you joined.

Thanks, Ed"

Thanks for the information. I also received that email. Ed "locks" down the blog to create mystery so new clients will think there is something of value there. As you stated, what is available on the blog is all you're going to get.

Reply With Quote
 
  #89 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,169 received


pvlee View Post
Now it's been shown how the account performance screen in ninjatrader can be faked, His whole facade seems to be crumbling. Members should be directed to this thread to see what has been exposed.

Personally, I am more interested in what @NinjaTrader will do given the negative feedback from his customers. I believe he is a NinjaTrader partner, perhaps someone can verify that to be true or not. Their decision will have a bigger impact on protecting consumers.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #90 (permalink)
Elite member
Hertfordshire England
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: DAX
 
pvlee's Avatar
 
Posts: 92 since May 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 164 received



Big Mike View Post
Personally, I am more interested in what @NinjaTrader will do given the negative feedback from his customers. I believe he is a NinjaTrader partner, perhaps someone can verify that to be true or not. Their decision will have a bigger impact on protecting consumers.

Mike

His broker must be disappointed as well. I think he uses Optimus Futures

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Dec 7

Linda Bradford Raschke: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Market Club .. Trade Triangles (club.ino.com) bakeyser Trading Reviews and Vendors 5 December 14th, 2011 06:43 AM
Did POTUS Just Become A Self-Congratulatory FT Op-Ed Blogger? Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 October 27th, 2011 11:48 PM
Ed's Renko for NT7 ? Breakout NinjaTrader 4 May 28th, 2010 08:29 PM
ProTrader Ed's Journal Jaguar52 Elite Trading Journals 42 April 12th, 2010 06:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-11-21 in 0.19 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.224.102.26