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Any fin-alg customer?


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Any fin-alg customer?

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  #1 (permalink)
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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I have a question about his product.

Can he just deactivate any of his product remotely?

The reason I'm asking,,,,,

I bought fin-alg (Final - Home) market profile about a month ago after one week trial.
It wasn't perfect but I liked it enough so I bought it.

Now after I'm done with Mr. Dalton's course I needed one minor change and had a question about one function not working.

So I emailed the guy with the request and question.

A blunt email came back asking for $1,200 for the minor change (I wanted volume # next to volume histogram since it wasn't really accuate or correct compared to gomi ladder) without any answer/solution to one malfunction (period open marker was gone)

Last sunday afternoon, (I think it's Monday morning in Israel) I was able to get ahold of him over email and asked if he could help me fix the problem and email came back within 5 minutes saying he tried but nothing can be done.
I didn't feel good about his asking for $1,200 custom work of a few lines in his indicator and flat out lying about his trying for solution,,,,so I asked if that's his best customer support and the answer was "yes",,,one line.

Now I'm kind of pissed and requested refund through Paypal and ever since that TPO indicator is De-activated.

So he can remotely de-activate my license? Any one had this kind of experience with this guy?

Is it even legal if he could do this?

BTW,,,no refund yet so it's still mine I guess.

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  #3 (permalink)
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You are not the only one. I have asked this dude to do a simple divergence indicator and I got a price of $2.5K
No need to tell you I did not make one.
Since he is in Israel, or any other country he can do just about anything he would like.

Gregory

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  #4 (permalink)
Chicago, IL USA
 
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Maybe you should send him a link to this discussion, so he can see how his unprofessional behavior will end up costing him more business in the future.

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  #5 (permalink)
Taipei Taiwan
 
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kalalex View Post

Now I'm kind of pissed and requested refund through Paypal and ever since that TPO indicator is De-activated.

So he can remotely de-activate my license? Any one had this kind of experience with this guy?

Is it even legal if he could do this?

BTW,,,no refund yet so it's still mine I guess.

The answer is yes if he is using the Ninjatrade license manager , just like any other Ninja consultant. If he is is using a different license manager, the answer is maybe.

As for legal, I have no idea.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #6 (permalink)
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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Just reporting back,

I posted the same content on Ninja forum and, to my pleasant surprise, NT's customer service stepped in right away to resolve this problem.

It was also confirmed that de-activation was done by the vendor.

Will have to see if this vendor will comply as promptly as NT customer service.

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  #7 (permalink)
New Delhi, India
 
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kalalex View Post
Just reporting back,

I posted the same content on Ninja forum and, to my pleasant surprise, NT's customer service stepped in right away to resolve this problem.

It was also confirmed that de-activation was done by the vendor.

Will have to see if this vendor will comply as promptly as NT customer service.

I would also recommend that you take snapshots of the posts that you have made here and on ninja trader forum and any other place where you might have posted this issue and email them to that PROFESSIONAL GUY so that he knows that he cannot run away with your money like that and he will end up spoiling his image completely.

This way you will put pressure on him to do the right thing. I would also suggest that you start similar thread on all other trading forums which you visit, as this will act as a warning to other guys who might be thinking about purchasing his tools.

Regards

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  #8 (permalink)
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kalalex View Post

Now I'm kind of pissed and requested refund through Paypal and ever since that TPO indicator is De-activated.

So he can remotely de-activate my license? Any one had this kind of experience with this guy?

Is it even legal if he could do this?

BTW,,,no refund yet so it's still mine I guess.

@kalalex

What did PayPal say?

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #9 (permalink)
the coin hunter
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@kalalex

What did PayPal say?

my experience with paypal is they do nothing.

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  #10 (permalink)
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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@ThatManFromTexas

This is how it worked.

As soon as I made a dispute Paypal holds the money I sent from the vendor's account and at this moment the money's not mine or vendor's either.
(I think now I understand why this PROFESSIONAL GUY deactivated my license)

Paypal had to wait 10 days for the vendor's response then collect proofs/backup stories from both sides and another 20 or so days till Paypal makes the decision.

I didn't want to wait that long and with the help from NT customer service I opted to keep using the indicator.
If I really wanted to push I'm pretty much sure I could get the money back.

BTW, this guy and NT were well aware of this thread because this guy's initial condition was me doing SOMETHING about this thread,,,,so I guess futures.io (formerly BMT) rocks from my point of view.

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  #11 (permalink)
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kalalex View Post
@ThatManFromTexas

This is how it worked.

As soon as I made a dispute Paypal holds the money I sent from the vendor's account and at this moment the money's not mine or vendor's either.
(I think now I understand why this PROFESSIONAL GUY deactivated my license)

Paypal had to wait 10 days for the vendor's response then collect proofs/backup stories from both sides and another 20 or so days till Paypal makes the decision.

I didn't want to wait that long and with the help from NT customer service I opted to keep using the indicator.
If I really wanted to push I'm pretty much sure I could get the money back.

BTW, this guy and NT were well aware of this thread because this guy's initial condition was me doing SOMETHING about this thread,,,,so I guess futures.io (formerly BMT) rocks from my point of view.

@kalalex

So you decided not to get a refund and with NT support's help, he turned your software back on?

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #12 (permalink)
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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He turned it back on and I dropped the dispute.

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  #13 (permalink)
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I have fin-alg and like the program. But your impression of the guy is accurate - he's rude and curt in his answers. He's been a little better lately - I don't have many problems with the program but have had questions. Recent answers have been more "civil".

Since the program is so similar to Market Delta, I've used Market Delta videos and tutorials to get a better grasp of some of the numbers. They have a wealth of information on "footprint" at Home. I like this one in particular: Meaningful Footprint Chart Patterns : MarketDelta Support

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  #14 (permalink)
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What are the choices besides the Fin-Alg software for Market Profile??

Thanks in advance. H. Hampton

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  #15 (permalink)
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datahogg View Post
What are the choices besides the Fin-Alg software for Market Profile??

Thanks in advance. H. Hampton

hi
Ninjatrader (Gomi indicators), Sierrachart, T4, Marketdelta

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* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
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  #16 (permalink)
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I recently purchased the software and did not have any of the issues that previous posters have. I had two very basic questions and they were answered immediately.

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  #17 (permalink)
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I also have the TPO profile and am very happy with it. Especially when combined with ScrollsLite so the chart doesn't shrink too small.

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  #18 (permalink)
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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He must have learned then.

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  #19 (permalink)
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
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I am using the Sierra Chart profile, and it seems very flexible, reliable, and useful.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Hi, will the fin-alg volume profile display information for days where you have not traded, so no NT tick data stored?

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #21 (permalink)
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TickedOff View Post
Hi, will the fin-alg volume profile display information for days where you have not traded, so no NT tick data stored?



Not sure what your question is? It doesn't matter whether you traded or not - if you have the data for whatever look-back period you want, the indicator will report the TPO and the volume profile.
Maybe you could clarify your question.

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  #22 (permalink)
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phantomtrader View Post
Not sure what your question is? It doesn't matter whether you traded or not - if you have the data for whatever look-back period you want, the indicator will report the TPO and the volume profile.
Maybe you could clarify your question.

Ok so currently Im using the gomi MP. Unless my NT is on and connected to my data provider, I will receive no volume profile information. So if I dont trade for a day I have a blank space there. I want to know if its any different with the fin-alg profile.

Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding markets.
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  #23 (permalink)
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TickedOff View Post
Ok so currently Im using the gomi MP. Unless my NT is on and connected to my data provider, I will receive no volume profile information. So if I dont trade for a day I have a blank space there. I want to know if its any different with the fin-alg profile.

Yes, it is different. With the Fin-Alg indicators, you can bring up any time frame at any time as long as you're connected to your datafeed and it will plot the indicator. So you don't have to leave your computer on to collect data for the indicator.

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  #24 (permalink)
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i have had it for 4 years... i like it...the only thing better is gomi ..hard to bet free. now if you want to spend big bucks you can improve your market profile software. i have tried most... they are to complex for me. that is why i like final...with ninja trader it is very simple...

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  #25 (permalink)
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I have had his market profile TPO indicator running for 2 years now. Runs perfectly, very happy with it. He has been quick to respond when I had a couple of questions, very brisk answers but helpful none the less.

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  #26 (permalink)
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I am a customer. It works fine.

Had to get new keys a few times and always got a fast response.

Never once considered he might cut me off though. He has no reason to.

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  #27 (permalink)
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phantomtrader View Post
Yes, it is different. With the Fin-Alg indicators, you can bring up any time frame at any time as long as you're connected to your datafeed and it will plot the indicator. So you don't have to leave your computer on to collect data for the indicator.

hi phantomtrader, so you don't need to leave your PC on. How do they do it, given NinjaTrader does not have the facility to do it? Also, is this valid for any instrument?

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  #28 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
hi phantomtrader, so you don't need to leave your PC on. How do they do it, given NinjaTrader does not have the facility to do it? Also, is this valid for any instrument?


Hi - they do it the same way charts fill when you turn on your computer. The data is picked up from the datafeed vendor and fills the indicator. I'm not familiar with GOMI so I don't know why you have to leave the computer on to collect data.

Fin-Alg works for any instrument on any time frame. They offer a free trial - so probably best to download it and see how it works. It's an invaluable tool.

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  #29 (permalink)
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phantomtrader View Post
Hi - they do it the same way charts fill when you turn on your computer. The data is picked up from the datafeed vendor and fills the indicator. I'm not familiar with GOMI so I don't know why you have to leave the computer on to collect data.

Fin-Alg works for any instrument on any time frame. They offer a free trial - so probably best to download it and see how it works. It's an invaluable tool.

Thank you. The reason I am wondering how they do it is, as I understand it NT and other systems store historical chart data by simply recording HLOC data for each timeframe. That's 4 numbers per timeframe, so that's a small piece of data.

However recording bid/ask volume traded means that all trades need to be recorded, which is a massive amount of data.

If systems like NT don't store this, then fin-alg must have the facilities to store it themselves, and then make it available to its users.



Or am I reading this wrong?

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  #30 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Thank you. The reason I am wondering how they do it is, as I understand it NT and other systems store historical chart data by simply recording HLOC data for each timeframe. That's 4 numbers per timeframe, so that's a small piece of data.

However recording bid/ask volume traded means that all trades need to be recorded, which is a massive amount of data.

If systems like NT don't store this, then fin-alg must have the facilities to store it themselves, and then make it available to its users.



Or am I reading this wrong?

Good question - not sure what the answer is. I assumed that the data vendor supplied the bid/ask volume which they are capable of doing. If you look at a couple of indicators on Nina that are supposed to report bid/ask, they only run in real time and do not accumulate the data. So it's an open question. It may be that the algo itself is written to accumulate the data. I use the fin-alg indicator in market replay so it must be stored someplace. Maybe I'll ask Ninja support. The guy at fin-alg is not particularly easy to deal with. He does write good stuff though.

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  #31 (permalink)
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phantomtrader View Post
Good question - not sure what the answer is. I assumed that the data vendor supplied the bid/ask volume which they are capable of doing. If you look at a couple of indicators on Nina that are supposed to report bid/ask, they only run in real time and do not accumulate the data. So it's an open question. It may be that the algo itself is written to accumulate the data. I use the fin-alg indicator in market replay so it must be stored someplace. Maybe I'll ask Ninja support. The guy at fin-alg is not particularly easy to deal with. He does write good stuff though.

I just checked the website and under TPO I find the following FAQ




unless 'based on NT data' simply means the source data is from there but then it's implied that gets stored somewhere else, the mystery deepens.... mmmh..

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  #32 (permalink)
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just for balance put yourself in the guys shoes. He is a talented programmer and is offering a product that allows significant cost saving compared to pro trading tools, TT & CQG are recognised as industry standard. He could easily command a high hourly rate for his programming expertise. The main reason people by his software is to save money, these people then contact the guy asking to tweak this or modify that for FREE. It sounds like his customer services skills need improving however he is actually being asked to give his time for free. Why should he do that? If I were running a business or trying to provide for my family I certainly wouldn't do it for free.

just trying to add perspective to some of the posts in this thread.

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  #33 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Thank you. The reason I am wondering how they do it is, as I understand it NT and other systems store historical chart data by simply recording HLOC data for each timeframe. That's 4 numbers per timeframe, so that's a small piece of data.

However recording bid/ask volume traded means that all trades need to be recorded, which is a massive amount of data.

If systems like NT don't store this, then fin-alg must have the facilities to store it themselves, and then make it available to its users.

final uses one min. bars to back fill the data. you do not use tick data. the 1 min. bars just works the market profile indicator. it has all the stuff of most other charting packages... now if you want volume foot print charts,volume brake down indicator vwap and a full market delta like package... they have that too.. market profile is 200.00 the other stuff 600.00....they will work with you ...you may get both for 700.00 or use gome for free....i would wait for ninja 8 to get out of beta to buy unless the will give you a free update to ninja 8....they are never trying to sell you other stuff or making you pay for up dates... they do have a few other things....i jut use the market profile indicator. to back fill the market delta like indicators you need tick data. you have to have I.Q.data feed to do that.. ninja does not store tick data

Or am I reading this wrong?


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  #34 (permalink)
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forgiven View Post

hi forgiven - love the la la la, was there more in your message that got lost?

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  #35 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - love the la la la, was there more in your message that got lost?

final uses one min. bars to back fill not tick data

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  #36 (permalink)
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forgiven View Post
final uses one min. bars to back fill not tick data

hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?

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  #37 (permalink)
 
 
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xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG




xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?


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ABCTG View Post
xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG

Many thanks ABCTG, this is very useful.

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xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?


I think it is accurate - see the jpg below - comparing Jigsaw total volume with fin-alg volume.
TPO levels match as well.
I've used the fin-alg indicators for several years - they're cheaper than Market Delta and are just about the same.



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ABCTG View Post
xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG

I agree - good analysis. Thanks

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phantomtrader View Post
I think it is accurate - see the jpg below - comparing Jigsaw total volume with fin-alg volume.
TPO levels match as well.
I've used the fin-alg indicators for several years - they're cheaper than Market Delta and are just about the same.



Wow, with the exception of one price it is the same volume. Thanks for that.

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Muly is getting some bad press here.

Remember he's not American and sometimes cultural differences can make people seem curt. That goes more so when culture is different but language is common.

I paid the guy years ago but every now and again (last time a new PC build), I need a reset. He does that for free.

Now, consider that in the software industry, you'd generally be looking upwards of 17.5% a year for support and I don't think it's fair to label the guy an asshat. In the past I've been in situations where a customer had a server struck by lightning (well the electricity supply did), the server blew and they were 3 years behind on support payments. They had to buy the software again. Cost was about $900k. I was the messenger, they were over a barrel and they had to pay. I wouldn't say I agreed with it 100% - but if you want help on hand, you have to pay (like insurance) and not expect to pay just when you have an issue.

To be fair though, most software purchasers don't understand the business. They expect something forever for a one off fee.

He may be curt - but again, no support fees. He's never been rude to me - but he's definitely been economical with words.

He's certainly on the friendlier side of the nerdscale. Most here have never experienced a cat 5 nerd though....

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DionysusToast View Post
Muly is getting some bad press here.

Remember he's not American and sometimes cultural differences can make people seem curt. That goes more so when culture is different but language is common.

I paid the guy years ago but every now and again (last time a new PC build), I need a reset. He does that for free.

Now, consider that in the software industry, you'd generally be looking upwards of 17.5% a year for support and I don't think it's fair to label the guy an asshat. In the past I've been in situations where a customer had a server struck by lightning (well the electricity supply did), the server blew and they were 3 years behind on support payments. They had to buy the software again. Cost was about $900k. I was the messenger, they were over a barrel and they had to pay. I wouldn't say I agreed with it 100% - but if you want help on hand, you have to pay (like insurance) and not expect to pay just when you have an issue.

To be fair though, most software purchasers don't understand the business. They expect something forever for a one off fee.

He may be curt - but again, no support fees. He's never been rude to me - but he's definitely been economical with words.

He's certainly on the friendlier side of the nerdscale. Most here have never experienced a cat 5 nerd though....

I agree with you fundamentally - he always comes through - I've never asked him for a freebee - just some questions about functionality. Anyway, I know he's an Israeli and maybe something gets lost in translation!

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forgiven View Post
final uses one min. bars to back fill not tick data

no it does not matter ...most all market profile software uses min. bars.. the reason is broker data will not let you down load tick data you need I.Q. feed for that... that is the only feed with back tick data.. ninja trader does not store tick data .. ninja 8 will... market delta or invester RT my let you store 5 days of tick data... i have I.Q. feed.. when i try to down load more than 10 days it will crash ninja 7... where you need to be worried about being accurate is on contract roll over. all software uses a chart that averages contract roll over..they are not accurate... it would be a lot more accurate if you now how to build a chart factoring in roll over ...most futures traders do not know how or to lazy to do it. google it ....you can find out how

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DionysusToast View Post
Muly is getting some bad press here.

Remember he's not American and sometimes cultural differences can make people seem curt. That goes more so when culture is different but language is common.

I paid the guy years ago but every now and again (last time a new PC build), I need a reset. He does that for free.

Now, consider that in the software industry, you'd generally be looking upwards of 17.5% a year for support and I don't think it's fair to label the guy an asshat. In the past I've been in situations where a customer had a server struck by lightning (well the electricity supply did), the server blew and they were 3 years behind on support payments. They had to buy the software again. Cost was about $900k. I was the messenger, they were over a barrel and they had to pay. I wouldn't say I agreed with it 100% - but if you want help on hand, you have to pay (like insurance) and not expect to pay just when you have an issue.

To be fair though, most software purchasers don't understand the business. They expect something forever for a one off fee.

He may be curt - but again, no support fees. He's never been rude to me - but he's definitely been economical with words.

He's certainly on the friendlier side of the nerdscale. Most here have never experienced a cat 5 nerd though....

I'm trying out his TPO/Volume profile package and I am impressed. I'm done with Gomi and his new pricing structure, plus I find Fin-algo to be much more accurate and the price can't be beat ( 2 machines $269 and all free upgrades, no BS leases). That solves my quest for VP on NT8.

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Define please "much more accurate", I compared gomi with my Acme package and it was exactly the same.



crosscreek View Post
I'm trying out his TPO/Volume profile package and I am impressed. I'm done with Gomi and his new pricing structure, plus I find Fin-algo to be much more accurate and the price can't be beat ( 2 machines $269 and all free upgrades, no BS leases). That solves my quest for VP on NT8.


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dk27 View Post
Define please "much more accurate", I compared gomi with my Acme package and it was exactly the same.

If you read what I wrote I was comparing to Gomi, not Acme which I know is excellent but more expensive for pretty much the same thing. I have been using Gomi, but have now switched to fin-algo for NT8.

I have no idea why this thread became such a big Acme thing when it was originally about Fin-algo.

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  #48 (permalink)
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My questioned was about accuracy, I am just interested in your findings as I probably missed something.


crosscreek View Post
If you read what I wrote I was comparing to Gomi, not Acme which I know is excellent but more expensive for pretty much the same thing. I have been using Gomi, but have now switched to fin-algo for NT8.

I have no idea why this thread became such a big Acme thing when it was originally about Fin-algo.


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I think basically, almost every thing he's offering you can find something as good (or better) and cheaper out there. I find also that he doesn't update his products much in terms of adding new features and like the others mentioned, customer service is basically non-existent. The only product that I've been using is the market profile (TPO) indicator, basically because everyone else is doing volume profile. There's just aren't many pure TPO indicators out there.

TPOs just gives me a slightly different view based on time, and I just find it helps me to complete the market profile picture.

On a side note, I recently upgraded my TPO license from NT7 to NT8. If anyone is interested, I would like to sell my NT7 license (can use on 2 machines). PM to negotiate price.

Cheers!

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Have anyone used this programmer for any custom work on indicators? I'm considering hiring him for a small modification on an existing indicator.

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