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Any fin-alg customer?
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Any fin-alg customer?

  #31 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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phantomtrader View Post
Good question - not sure what the answer is. I assumed that the data vendor supplied the bid/ask volume which they are capable of doing. If you look at a couple of indicators on Nina that are supposed to report bid/ask, they only run in real time and do not accumulate the data. So it's an open question. It may be that the algo itself is written to accumulate the data. I use the fin-alg indicator in market replay so it must be stored someplace. Maybe I'll ask Ninja support. The guy at fin-alg is not particularly easy to deal with. He does write good stuff though.

I just checked the website and under TPO I find the following FAQ

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unless 'based on NT data' simply means the source data is from there but then it's implied that gets stored somewhere else, the mystery deepens.... mmmh..

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  #32 (permalink)
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just for balance put yourself in the guys shoes. He is a talented programmer and is offering a product that allows significant cost saving compared to pro trading tools, TT & CQG are recognised as industry standard. He could easily command a high hourly rate for his programming expertise. The main reason people by his software is to save money, these people then contact the guy asking to tweak this or modify that for FREE. It sounds like his customer services skills need improving however he is actually being asked to give his time for free. Why should he do that? If I were running a business or trying to provide for my family I certainly wouldn't do it for free.

just trying to add perspective to some of the posts in this thread.

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  #33 (permalink)
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how does final do it...how they back fill market profile charts



xplorer View Post
Thank you. The reason I am wondering how they do it is, as I understand it NT and other systems store historical chart data by simply recording HLOC data for each timeframe. That's 4 numbers per timeframe, so that's a small piece of data.

However recording bid/ask volume traded means that all trades need to be recorded, which is a massive amount of data.

If systems like NT don't store this, then fin-alg must have the facilities to store it themselves, and then make it available to its users.

final uses one min. bars to back fill the data. you do not use tick data. the 1 min. bars just works the market profile indicator. it has all the stuff of most other charting packages... now if you want volume foot print charts,volume brake down indicator vwap and a full market delta like package... they have that too.. market profile is 200.00 the other stuff 600.00....they will work with you ...you may get both for 700.00 or use gome for free....i would wait for ninja 8 to get out of beta to buy unless the will give you a free update to ninja 8....they are never trying to sell you other stuff or making you pay for up dates... they do have a few other things....i jut use the market profile indicator. to back fill the market delta like indicators you need tick data. you have to have I.Q.data feed to do that.. ninja does not store tick data

Or am I reading this wrong?


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  #34 (permalink)
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forgiven View Post

hi forgiven - love the la la la, was there more in your message that got lost?

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  #35 (permalink)
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final back fill


xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - love the la la la, was there more in your message that got lost?

final uses one min. bars to back fill not tick data

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  #36 (permalink)
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forgiven View Post
final uses one min. bars to back fill not tick data

hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?


Last edited by xplorer; June 22nd, 2016 at 05:11 AM.
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  #37 (permalink)
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xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG




xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?


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  #38 (permalink)
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ABCTG View Post
xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG

Many thanks ABCTG, this is very useful.

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  #39 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
hi forgiven - I didn't realize you had embedded your answer into my own quote. That's why I didn't read it. I have now, thanks.



So fin-alg use 1 min bars to backfill, not tick data. Okay. So it's not 100% accurate.


I guess the question is 'does it really matter it's not 100% accurate'?


I think it is accurate - see the jpg below - comparing Jigsaw total volume with fin-alg volume.
TPO levels match as well.
I've used the fin-alg indicators for several years - they're cheaper than Market Delta and are just about the same.


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  #40 (permalink)
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ABCTG View Post
xplorer,

when you look at TPO charts (which usually means 30 minute brackets) you don't need tick data. For volume profiles you can show that building profiles from 1 minute data gives a reasonable accuracy compared to building profiles from 1 tick data (although the latter is more accurate of course). I did a study on that a few years ago that compared the difference in price for the E-Mini S&P 500 Volume Point of Control (VPOC) over a sample size of 1088 trading days, when calculated from tick data and from minute data. On roughly 30% of the days there was no difference in the VPOC at all. The first standard deviation (meaning the area where 68.2% of the values are found) was only four ticks wide, meaning the difference was only two ticks or less 68.2 % of the days.
As you are not trying to land a space ship based on this data, the accuracy is good enough to use it for trading in my opinion.

Regards,

ABCTG

I agree - good analysis. Thanks

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