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tastytrade.com

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
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josh's Avatar
 
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sands View Post
The guy definitely knows his stuff, but that knowledge isn't accessible unless you already know a lot about options. E.g., not for beginners. The topics/conversations are definitely interesting insights for existing participants in this field.

About 18 months ago I knew practically nothing about options. Being forced to learn, I used TT as one resource. If you know nothing about options and try to listen to a random segment, it's of course confusing. But they do have some beginner segments which I used when I was first learning. I always had a bit of a psychological barrier for some reason with options; granted, there's a lot to know, and I use mostly simple plays now when I trade them, and real options experts know that it's an entire field of trading unto itself, BUT you have to start learning somewhere, and TT is a good resource. Most traders seem to be allergic to options and I totally get it, but they can be learned and IMO every trader, equities/futures/otherwise should know how options work. I'm sorry it took me so long to do it.

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
SINGAPORE
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TS, TOS, MC
Broker/Data: TOS, IB, TS
Favorite Futures: Options, Stocks, ETFs
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2012
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Josh,

Well said. I also went through the same path. Initially, I was rather confused when I listen to TT. Frankly speaking, they are not obliged to structure the info like a book on options trading. I actually read a few books to learn about the basic of options. I even went to IVolatility.com which provides some sort of text book style of learning. Then when I return to watch TT, everything makes more sense & I can follow them.

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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
London + UK
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary Analytics
Broker/Data: Multiple broker + Multiple feed
Favorite Futures: Currently European and US equities
 
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josh View Post
About 18 months ago I knew practically nothing about options. Being forced to learn, I used TT as one resource. If you know nothing about options and try to listen to a random segment, it's of course confusing. But they do have some beginner segments which I used when I was first learning. I always had a bit of a psychological barrier for some reason with options; granted, there's a lot to know, and I use mostly simple plays now when I trade them, and real options experts know that it's an entire field of trading unto itself, BUT you have to start learning somewhere, and TT is a good resource. Most traders seem to be allergic to options and I totally get it, but they can be learned and IMO every trader, equities/futures/otherwise should know how options work. I'm sorry it took me so long to do it.

I do think a lot of people miss that fact, that Options are a field of their own compared to more vanilla trading, very true. In terms of places to start I think there are some really good books/materials out there that I'd recommend like John Hull, or Paul Wilmott as a primer. I'm generally jaded by the quality of online materials because in my experience it tends to be harder to find quality suppliers of it e.g., material that is both focused as informative to what I wanted to learn at least. Although I think most people that are successful find it is self driven (as I think both of us have found) essentially that with all the materials out there you do get out what you invest intellectually. So can start anywhere whether their materials are great / poor and find a path through to their end goal. Glad you've found your way through the jungle!

Sands.

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  #24 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
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So basicly they teach you how to drive a car (to use options), but not how to win a race (to be profitable)?

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  #25 (permalink)
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Pedro40 View Post
So basicly they teach you how to drive a car (to use options), but not how to win a race (to be profitable)?

Is that a real question, or some conclusion you have drawn from the discussion in the form of a question?

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  #26 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
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josh View Post
Is that a real question, or some conclusion you have drawn from the discussion in the form of a question?

Well, what do you think? Is that a real question or a hypothetical?

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  #27 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Pedro40's Avatar
 
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Direct quote from the master:

" "TastyTrade's mantra is all about Probabilistic Investing for Probabilistic Outcomes .... but as we have shown, it doesn't mean you will make money!"

So the guy is a real hack and we are supposed to subscribe to his radio show and learn something? He is a very good example that the real money in trading is in services like market making or running educational shows or message boards. Those always make money, unlike traders....

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  #28 (permalink)
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Edmonton, Alberta
 
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Pedro40 View Post
Direct quote from the master:

" "TastyTrade's mantra is all about Probabilistic Investing for Probabilistic Outcomes .... but as we have shown, it doesn't mean you will make money!"

So the guy is a real hack and we are supposed to subscribe to his radio show and learn something? He is a very good example that the real money in trading is in services like market making or running educational shows or message boards. Those always make money, unlike traders....

Pedro, you are way off base here. TastyTrade is FREE. Tom Sosnoff is the owner and his wealth far exceeds $100 million. He was a co-founder of ThinkorSwim before it was bought out by TD Ameritrade.

Having said that, and as a regular viewer of TastyTrade, it is an excellent place to learn about option strategies - even for newbies. These guys are very transparent.

The BIG problem with Tom and his yes-man, side-kick, Tony is that in addition to probabilistic trading strategies (which are fine) is the fact that they also take Big directional positions in futures with no stops. Currently Tom is short huge ES positions that he has been accumulating since the high 1600s. His average cost on the shorts is probably in the 1750 range. He is currently taking more than 200 points in heat on the ES. He did the same thing a few years ago on bonds, taking ridiculous heat for years before it finally worked out for him.

The strategy may work for him, as he has 100s of million dollars in the bank, but for any normal trader this is suicide.

The viewers who learn the proper delta neutral, time-decay stategies will do fine, but the viewers who also follow his contrarian approach to directional trading aren't doing well. To a large degree, Tom's directional trades make the show much more interesting BUT the viewers who try to emulate him will not fare well. The show is highly entertaining, just don't believe in the Contrarian BS that is constantly spewed on the show.

My advice is to watch the show as entertainment (Vonetta Logan is hilarious), but listen to guys like Dan Sheridan if you want to set up an income-generating options business.

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  #29 (permalink)
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gfmatt View Post
Pedro, you are way off base here..... for any normal trader this is suicide.

OK, let's see who is off base here:

1. Tom's wealth didn't come from trading profits, he sold ToS. So rather irrelevant to the conversation.
2. TT might be free now but it wasn't a year or so ago. I apologize if I am not up to date on it, but if he is a multimillionaire, why did he sell subscriptions? (or better yet, why would anyone pay him 1000$ a year?)
3. Isn't this the definition of hack?: " is the fact that they also take Big directional positions in futures with no stops."
And why is he taking those bets in futures if he is an option expert? As long as he can not show at least a slight positive return in options, he qualifies as a hack.
4. The show might be highly entertaining, but so are Nascar crashes.

Recap from the past:

"So Tasty Trade could put you back $90/month if you didn't know any better. "

http://inthemoneytrades.blogspot.com/2013/01/tasty-trade-free-option-trading.html


Last edited by Pedro40; August 31st, 2014 at 04:57 PM.
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  #30 (permalink)
1.Fibs 2.??? 3.Profit
Puerto Rico
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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gfmatt View Post
Currently Tom is short huge ES positions that he has been accumulating since the high 1600s. His average cost on the shorts is probably in the 1750 range.

Where did you get this info from? Where can we see his current positions?

I subscribed to Bob and saw that he does many futures trades, but it was very active buying and selling, scalping round the clock. Seems strange he would be short a "huge ES position" when he constantly preaches to trade small and trade often. It seems the only trades they do are countertrend but they do average down and trade very actively. I don't doubt that he has been selling the ES since the 1600's but would not be surprised if the has averaged all the way close to where we are now scalping all day every day. He seems to average around 100 trades a week, when I subscribed it seemed about half of them where futures scalps.

I subscribed to see the options trades though. I have no idea what strategy he uses for futures, he does not put a lot of emphasis on it on the show. I don't follow those. He has said it's just to keep engaged in the market. I've always been under the impression he does it for fun, to throw around a few dollars for kicks and giggles.

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