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Vector Vest review (www.vectorvest.com)


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Vector Vest review (www.vectorvest.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
 stocktrade 
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I'm sure everyone here is aware of VectorVest and has received mail or email from them at some point over the years. There information seems to be very accurate and reliable. Their timing indicator indicating the market is close to turning is very accurate. I would like to know if there is anyone here who has used VV for trading, swing or position trading and made money. Or, have you used VV information and combined it with your own strategy and made money. Their information seems to be too reliable not to be able to make money with it. I've only tried their trial's a couple of times. Only serious traders with experience using VV please reply. Don't want to get into ongoing debate about how good or bad, etc. about VV. I think we will all be better served from posts by those who have some real input to offer us. Thanks.

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  #3 (permalink)
 dstrader 
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Wow... nobody ever replied to this thread?

I'm also interested in this information. I've used IBD and managed my own long term portfolio with relative success, but it's time consuming (and I don't use IBD's market sentiment very closely because they are always late, but gives me an extra confirmation - if I'm long and the market is in uptrend - or prevent buying more stocks if in a correction or uptrend under pressure).

Would love to hear someone with real-life experience using this tool. As usual researching in the internet reviews go from it's a scam to the best tool in the world. And I'm aware you can do a trial, I just don't want waste time before hearing some good feedback as you can spend your entire life on trials these days...

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 dstrader 
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Ok… since I didn’t hear from anybody’s experience on VV. I decided to sign up for VV and test it myself. So far, I seem to like it quite a bit. The platform is simple and easy to use, and allows you to do all kinds of backtests that include some ‘fundamentals’, which I think is very nice. In few minutes, I loaded one of my portfolios and realized there were better stocks out there that I could buy.

Keep in mind that VV is suited more to an investor than a trader. So, I don’t think it’s a platform we would compare to TradeStation or TOS. It’s geared towards a person looking into a more long term type investment. So, as most fund managers can’t even beat the S&P, I would say anything above 10-15% annually should be great for most people (again this is not trading, and I’m assuming people would be investing large quantities of money for retirement, next house, etc…).

Back to the platform, they have their own rating system, based primarily on 3 variables (RV, RS, RT) and a composite variable called VST (definitions copied below from their web site):

Value: Value is a measure of a stock's current worth. Value is computed from forecasted earnings per share, forecasted earnings growth, profitability, interest, and inflation rates. Value increases when earnings, earnings growth rate and profitability increase, and when interest and inflation rates decrease. VectorVest advocates the purchase of undervalued stocks. At some point in time, a stock's Price and Value always will converge. Although, this is not one of the 3 key variables, they recommend buying ‘undervalued’ stocks.

RV (Relative Value): RV is an indicator of long-term price appreciation potential and measured on a scale of 0.00 to 2.00. This indicator is far superior to a simple comparison of Price and Value because it is computed from an analysis of projected price appreciation three years out, AAA Corporate Bond Rates, and risk. RV solves the riddle of whether it is preferable to buy High growth, High P/E stocks, or Low growth, Low P/E stocks. VectorVest favors the purchase of stocks with RV ratings above 1.00.

RS (Relative Safety): RS is an indicator of risk and measured on a scale of 0.00 to 2.00. RS is computed from an analysis of the consistency and predictability of a company's financial performance, debt to equity ratio, sales volume, business longevity, price volatility and other factors. A stock with an RS rating greater than 1.00 is safer and more predictable than the average stock in the VectorVest database. VectorVest favors the purchase of stocks of companies with consistent, predictable financial performance.

RT (Relative Timing): RT is a fast, smart, accurate indicator of a stock's price trend and measured on a scale of 0.00 to 2.00. RT is computed from an analysis of the direction, magnitude, and dynamics of a stock's price movements over one day, one week, one quarter and one year time periods. Once a stock's price has established a strong trend, it is expected to continue in that trend for the short-term. If a trend dissipates, RT will gravitate toward 1.00. RT will explode from bottoms, dive from tops, and reflect changes in price momentum. VectorVest favors the purchase of stocks with RT ratings above 1.00.


VST (VST-Vector): VST is the master indicator for ranking every stock in the VectorVest database and measured on a scale of 0.00 to 2.00. VST is computed from the square root of a weighted sum of the squares of RV, RS, and RT. Stocks with the highest VST ratings have the best combinations of Value, Safety and Timing. These are the stocks to own for above average, long-term capital appreciation. VectorVest advocates the purchase of safe, undervalued stocks rising in price.

They also have a ‘main screen’ or ‘Home’ screen that like IBD’s ‘Big Picture’ gives you an overview of the market and if it’s safe or not to buy stocks. They have few indicator based (they call it rule-based) indicator systems to alert of market’s turning point. These are the key signals based on how fast or early they will prompt for a turn (of course the faster, more signals, and more fake outs as any other indicator based system): ‘RT Kicker Combo’ (RTC) ), ‘Green Light Buyer’ (GLB), or the ‘Confirmed Market Call’ (CC).


VectorVest home screen above.

Experience so far:
After downloading the software and watching the instructional videos, it was super easy to be able to use VV effectively. I don’t think I got up to speed that quick in any other platform I used before. It literally just takes you few hours and you will be able to explore quite well the features of the platform.

So, my next step was to test some ‘portfolios’. I decided to run the portfolios they have on the basic instructional videos, since the results were impressive. I run a couple of them and guess what, my results were different, and also if I run those portfolios on other periods of time the results weren’t that great. At this point my blood pressure started to climb, and I thought, ok… maybe I have another company just trumpeting how good their software is, and picking and choosing specific times when things just works well and I’ve seen this movie many times before. I picked up the phone and called Technical Support. Surprisingly, the person on the phone was very knowledgeable and recreated the same backtests as I did, and explained test by test why the results were different if you run a test in a different point in time (we looked at which stocks were bought and sold at specific times). Things as simple as stock splitting, delisting and other market events will cause backtests to depend on the time they are run, which made sense to me.

So my next step was to recreate the ‘canned’ recommended portfolios as they are run to the current date, and I should get very similar results, and they did. I’m posting some of them here, so if you have questions or ideas for better backtests, let me know and I will be glad (time permitting) to run them and post. They don’t have their own Forum, so I guess if there is a larger group of users of VV we could exchange ideas here. They do have ‘in person’ user groups meetings, and I plan to attend the next one near my location to exchange experience with people that have been using this software for years. I’m also planning to meet a person that uses this for over 5 years in a few days.

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 dstrader 
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The recommended trading systems are called Sure-Fire success. As I said in my previous post, instead of just plotting their results I thought would be more interesting for me to recreate the rules of their system and run against their database (so I can also change time span, etc.) and use it as a learning experience (and to be honest I’m always skeptical and wanted to see each traded stock, when bought, sold, etc. using my own ‘recreated’ rules for the system).

This one is called RTC-Great Growth Stocks:
Name: RTC-Great Growth Stocks
Signal: RT Combo up
Stop Loss: 10% Trailing, 50% Target Gain
Max # of Positions: 10
Turn Action: No action on Turn
Initial Capital: $100,000.00
Commissions: $9.95



I thought this was very interesting, in a bit more than 3 years (12/30/2011 to 02/13/2015) it gave an ARR of 28.62% and a CROR of 22.69% with a max drawdown of only 8.66%.

The application also creates a nice summary report:






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 dstrader 
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This canned portfolio looks for as the name says ‘safe and sound’ stocks like Apple, Starbucks, Ross, TJX, etc. It gears towards the more prudent investor, that doesn't want to be buying and selling a lot of stocks (more of a buy and hold type style).

Here are the basic rules I had to recreate and the results.

Name: GLB – Safe and Sound
Signal: GLB Up
Stop Loss: VST < 1
Max # of Positions: 20
Turn Action: No Action on Turn
Initial Capital: $100,000.00
Commissions: $9.95

Btw, I could put the entire list of transactions, but I’m going to refrain from that as I’m not sure if that would be allowed according to their subscription agreements. What I’m sharing here are things I've seen in public VV webcasts. So, I don’t think I should be infringing any subscription agreement. More likely I may be helping their case, as here is a user recreating and showing the validity of their portfolios…



I found this one to be interesting also. Look at the commissions during the 3 year period, it is very low. The stocks selected were triggered in the initial backtest date, and there was very little changes during the entire period as a sell would only be triggered if the VST would turn lower than 1 (remember the VST, is the composite of RV, RS and RT). ARR and CROR were good also.

I should say that I tried several of my own ideas during my brief period with VV, changing the stops, targets, searches (they have maybe a hundred or more canned searches), and these canned portfolios do seem to be something they’ve worked for a while to optimize as I was not able (again during my brief tests) to beat those so far for such a large period of time. The rules of the Sure-Fire (the canned ones) are so simple that I thought I would be able to quickly find something better, but I guess I’m wrong. If I find one with my own rules and search that beats their 5 canned ones I will post it here. And again, if you have your own suggestion I will be happy to give it a try.

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 dstrader 
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Now I wanted to check one of the canned portfolios (Sure Fire) that would be more aggressive on buying, but also on selling/shorting. So I recreated the CC-S&P500 WINNERS VERNS VULTURES portfolio. This portfolio uses as the name says S&P500 stocks with great VST for Confirmed Call Up signals, and go short on vultures stocks for Confirmed Call Down signals. It’s intended to be traded during Confirmed Up signals with a 50% gain and 10% loss Stop Combination. It’s as said complementary short search with a 10% trailing stop. If you didn’t notice so far, this one will trigger on bear signals also (Confirmed Call Down) shorting very bad stocks in the Vern’s vultures search, while the other ones (GLB-Safe and Sound and RTC-Great Growth Stocks) just went long and sold when stop or target reached.


Name: CC -S&P500 WINNERS G/L 50/10 / VERNS 10% TS
Signal: Confirmed Call Up
Search: CC – S&P 500 Winners
Stop Loss: 50% Gain 10% Loss
Turn Action: Close all short positions
Signal: Confirmed Call Down
Search: Vern’s Vultures
Max # of Positions: 5
Stop Loss: 10% Trailing
Initial Capital: $100,000.00
Commissions: $9.95



I backtested this one during the same period they have in their database (12/18/2012 to 02/13/2015) which is a little more than 2 years. As we have been in a very bullish period there wasn’t much activity mainly in the short side (check the very low commissions) and the ARR and CROR are excellent (43% and 36% respectively). Drawdown is also small (10%). Not sure why they chose the smaller period on this one.

I guessed this portfolio would work better during volatile times although most likely not as great returns, so I decided to run this backtest during the great recession covering 2008-2009. So I started the backtest in 2006 and run until Feb 2015. Results are below.



As you can see this portfolio, because it takes advantage of going short on down signals was able to sustain a CROR of 10.87% during the 9 year period. The drawdown was as expected much higher (27%) due to the extreme volatility of the 2008 2009 years.

Before I forget, I should also mention that VV allows you to integrate with TradeKing for automatic execution (which I don't plan to do at the moment). I contacted them, and they may be integrating other brokers in the future. Right now, I will just use their alerts for when to buy/sell/short a stock with my current brokers.

Ok… I will stop here now as I have a lot to do to prepare for my work week. I will wait for questions before I post more things about VV. Not sure how many people here are interested in longer term, larger capital type investments. I guess the posts above gave a good idea of the software.

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 joe11 
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Hello dstrader - I appreciate your ports on VV. I think of trying VV every time I get their big multi-page flyer in the mail! I have a request to you - Could you show an overlay/comparison of VV Composite to S&P500 index? In other words, can we trade SPY following the timing of VV Composite? Or is there a single/synthetic instrument that can be used to trade VV Composite? Thank you very much.

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 dstrader 
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Yes, you can...
As a matter of fact I run several tests with different 'signals'. See below.

First, let's see what would happen if you buy SPY during the period and do not touch it:



As you can see above, during the period of the backtest (12/30/2011 to 02/13/2015) you would have your $100k grow to $164K (CROR of 17.19%) if you just bought $100K on SPY and hold it.

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 dstrader 
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Now, let's try to buy SPY when we get a 'Confirmed Call' signal (their slowest signal) and go to cash when we get a down signal.

This is what you get:


So, your $100k now is worth 120K during the 3 years approximately. A CROR of 6.01%. You end up making less money.
This makes sense to me, because if it was that simple with just a signal to beat the market we all would be rich.

I would expect even worse if we short when we get a 'Confirmed Call' signal. This is what we get (long SPY on CC/up, short CC on CC/down):



Your $100K is now worth $87K. So as expected you end up losing money during the period (confirming that buying and holding during a bullish period is probably your best strategy)

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 Big Mike 
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Holding because it's bullish would be a hindsight bias.

Can you comment on portfolio level trading of dozens of products, what kinds of tools are available to analyze and manage in a portfolio?

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 dstrader 
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Just continuing some test with the SPY.

Now, let's see what happens if we try their second 'slowest signal', the Green Light Buyer. This will create many more signals than the "Confirmed Calls". Therefore more prone to whipsaws.



Now, your $100K is worth $145K (CROR of 12.55%). Therefore, it actually did better than the "Confirmed Calls"

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 dstrader 
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I just wanted to put one more test with the SPY with their latest created (and fastest) signal, the RTX Kicker.

These are the results.



As you can see your $100K would be worth $137K (CROR of 10.61%). Max drawdown of 11.39%. Slightly worse than the GLB (Green Light Buyer) signals.

Of course, there are a million combinations possible. We could try a target and a trailing stop for each signal for example. Or use a ETF 3x for longs, ETF -3x for shorts, etc... etc...

If you would like to backtest a specific portfolio or system let me know. I will try to post as time permits.

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 dstrader 
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Big Mike View Post
Holding because it's bullish would be a hindsight bias.

Can you comment on portfolio level trading of dozens of products, what kinds of tools are available to analyze and manage in a portfolio?

Sent from my phone


They have 5 main canned portfolios depending on the style of investor you are: prudent, conservative, aggressive or speculative. Besides that, they constantly have competitions, so subscribers can submit their own created custom portfolios. I've seen some very good ones from the past, but they don't seem to be as good as you increase the time horizon (curve fitting?). I was a bit annoyed that for the last competition they established just a year period, so as I recreated some of the submitted portfolios I realize that members created optimized portfolios for that period, as I increased the period for 3 years or 5 years they were not that great. I would expect VV to know better, and establish a competition with broader rules.

It's a shame that they don't have a subscriber forum to exchange ideas. Ideas are exchanged via in-person user group meetings. So, a user group in Chicago, may not know what a user group in NYC or Dallas is doing which is not the best way to exchange ideas. A universal forum with people's exchanging ideas on each other's portfolios would be much much better, and I told them that during my call (what are they afraid of? seems silly that in this day and age they depend on these in-person meetings). Anyway, I plan to attend the next one in Lake Geneva and hopefully will learn a lot from long term users.

As far as analyzing custom portfolios, they have all kinds of searches (possibly few hundred) and in itself is overwhelming. Some examples of search groups (they have 20 -30 searches on each group): Cherry picking, ETFs, Hi-Lo Searches Industries/Sectors/Stocks, Protrader (technical searches), Candlesticks, Price-volume, Prudent, Retirement, Speculative, Trends (Bottom fishing, crossovers, divergences, etc.), etc. etc.

With any of these searches, or any combination of these (e.g you may want to go long on a certain couple of searches, and short on others), you can create your portfolio, backtest, and create several reports (transactions, summary report, etc.).

They have a tool called Watchdog, which I found interesting. Let's say you have a group of Midas Touch (these are their gold picks) stocks that you want to buy once a MACD (or any other indicator of course) cross above the signal line, and you just want stocks with price above $5 and Avg Volume >= 250K, then you can set up a 'watchdog' that will alert you via email or txt message when that situation happens.

The other key portfolio capability is called Genius. Once you created a portfolio, it will have a copy of that portfolio in your database (Joe's retirement portfolio for example with his 10 initial positions). Once you turn on the Genius, Joe's portfolio will be managed automatically. For example, Joe's portfolio has a rule to sell at 50% target, so AAPL is sold and a new stock is bought according to his portfolio rules (e.g. stock with greatest VST). Any change in the portfolio will send you an alert, so you can make the change in your real life investment portfolio with your broker. If you want this executed automatically, you need to have an account with Tradeking. Otherwise, as I said, you just have a 'picture' of your managed portfolio in VV, and you manage manually on your broker.

There are other things, but again, I'm in a learning curve myself. I will report as I learn more. The think I like so far is how quick and easily you can test an idea. They don't have a script language, so programmers here are out of luck, if they want to use an indicator that is not in their software (I find this to be a weakness as I can program, most people may not care).
Another thing I find interesting is that it's easy to create these searches and portfolios based on market timing and basic fundamentals. This may be possible in other platforms, but I believe it would be much more complicated and you may need to create your own 'fundamentals' type rules, and your own 'timing' rules. The fact that you can combine these two with some technical indicators quickly and build a 'trading system' seems unique to me.

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 dstrader 
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As I said in my previous post, they have some user proposed strategies that look quite good. One that caught my attention is using leveraged ETFs. In this case the VV user uses 3x ETFs to go long/short according to GLB (Green Light Buyers) signals. From 2010 to 2013 (more specifically from around April 2010 when those ETFs were created to mid May 2013 - so slightly more than 3 years) someone using this strategy would have made 1MM dollars with a $100K investment. I'm sharing this here, because I saw a public webinar showing this strategy, so I should be ok.

The strategy works like this: you go long SOXL(Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bull 3X Shs) with a 5% trailing stop when you have a GLB signal up, and you go long SOXS (Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bear 3X Shs) with a 4% trailing stop when you have a GLB neutral signal. Test period: 12/31/2009 - 05/16/2013. Results:



Just amazing right? you just made a $100K investment capital into $1MM in just 3 years with a manageable but somewhat painful 20% drawdown. That is a CROR of almost 100%!

Ok... I rebuilt the strategy on VV and I changed the period to trade from the beginning of 2010 to today (Feb 23 2015). Let's see what we get:




The final results are still pretty good, but look at the May 2013 to May 2014 period, you would have to go through an almost 50% drawdown!. Is this realistic? Not many people would have the guts to keep trading during those conditions. The fact that they chose such a perfect period (although the strategy and the video was around mid 2013) was a bit questionable to me, and that's why I decided to run to 'today's' date.

Anyway, this seems worth further research. Just want to share this with the group. Any comments welcomed!

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 CMPMD 
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dstrader, I am interested in VectorVest too, and appreciate you starting an continuing to post to this thread. I'm planning to attend one of their meetings this Saturday in Orlando, and learn more about them. Thanks again for sharing your DD about them.

I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.
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 dstrader 
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CMPMD View Post
dstrader, I am interested in VectorVest too, and appreciate you starting an continuing to post to this thread. I'm planning to attend one of their meetings this Saturday in Orlando, and learn more about them. Thanks again for sharing your DD about them.

Thanks. I recommend you to go to one of their user group meetings. The closest one from Orlando is in Tampa. I went to the one near my current location in Lake Geneva. It was quite good and had over 100 people. I believe it's a serious company which is rare in this business, and I decided to sign up for a year to get a bit more experience with the tool. It's no holy grail for sure, but it's easy to use and can help you pick up some good stocks.

Let me know if you have questions.

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 deaddog 
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@dstrader

Any comments after using Vectorvest for a few months?

I recently signed up for a 2 month free trial compliments of my broker. I like he software so far, it's been a week trying to figure it out.

I'm hoping it will be a useful tool for screening stock. So far it is the best I have found for looking at Canadian Stocks. I have found that you have to check the data with a different source after you have selected any stock. So far I have only found a couple errors but it would be nice to have confidence in the software. I notified Vectorvest of the errors and they have taken steps to correct them.

Any hints on how a technically challenged, computer illiterate, old fart might easily master screening and back testing? I would like to come up with my own strategy and be able to back test it.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 dstrader 
Chicago, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
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I actually like the software quite a bit. So much, that I signed up for the yearly renewal. Said that, if you look at my previous posts, it's definitely not the holy grail, but as you said, it does help you to select some good stocks. Also, I do feel they are one of the few honest business in this area after so many disappointments. Their webinars are good (if you haven't been attending them), and their customer service is excellent. It's not that cheap, so you better make good use of it to justify the cost (~ $1500/year for real time).

I've been doing well selling puts mainly from the Great Growth Stocks portfolio (sometimes Safe and Sound). Basically, these are stocks that I wouldn't mind buying, so I'm just trying to decrease the 'cost basis' as I build my portfolio. I sell puts on 10 to 20 positions on stocks that I want to buy and on the price I want to buy (strike price - premium). Few can be assigned and then you own them, the others I just pocket the premium. Of course, you need to be well capitalized or have a good margin account and know options well (sell puts with high IV, cost basis at good support levels, etc.). I particularly like the CI indicator that allows me to list the stocks that are mostly with 'well behaved' charts (price goes from left bottom corner to top right corner as VV says).

If you are technically challenged I recommend you use the 'canned portfolios'. They seem to be the best. I've been trying several others, but if you change the time frames they don't perform as well as the 'canned portfolios'(Great Growth Stocks, Safe and Sound, etc.).

Make sure you attend the user groups (UGs) and webinars. It's a great way to exchange ideas and learn how to better use the software. Most people in the UGs seem to be retirees so I don't think most are that comfortable with technology but they can still use the software successfully (I hope I'm not being politically incorrect here... ). I actually think that VV is really easy to use after the initial few weeks (but I'm not technically challenged at all, I actually love technology). Not sure where you are, but I attended a couple of user group meetings at Lake Geneva in Wisconsin and they have a very good crowd. The hotel they meet is very nice and I took advantage to enjoy the weekend with my 6yo/wife . In addition, not sure if VV do this for everybody, but they sent me 5 CD's (which I haven't watched yet) when I signed up for the software. It's a 2 day course on how to use the software, seems to cover VV very well.

I'm super busy currently, but as time allows I will try to put here some other strategies and backtests.

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 ziggy123 
boston
 
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dstrader View Post
As I said in my previous post, they have some user proposed strategies that look quite good. One that caught my attention is using leveraged ETFs. In this case the VV user uses 3x ETFs to go long/short according to GLB (Green Light Buyers) signals. From 2010 to 2013 (more specifically from around April 2010 when those ETFs were created to mid May 2013 - so slightly more than 3 years) someone using this strategy would have made 1MM dollars with a $100K investment. I'm sharing this here, because I saw a public webinar showing this strategy, so I should be ok.

The strategy works like this: you go long SOXL(Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bull 3X Shs) with a 5% trailing stop when you have a GLB signal up, and you go long SOXS (Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bear 3X Shs) with a 4% trailing stop when you have a GLB neutral signal. Test period: 12/31/2009 - 05/16/2013. Results:



Just amazing right? you just made a $100K investment capital into $1MM in just 3 years with a manageable but somewhat painful 20% drawdown. That is a CROR of almost 100%!

Ok... I rebuilt the strategy on VV and I changed the period to trade from the beginning of 2010 to today (Feb 23 2015). Let's see what we get:




The final results are still pretty good, but look at the May 2013 to May 2014 period, you would have to go through an almost 50% drawdown!. Is this realistic? Not many people would have the guts to keep trading during those conditions. The fact that they chose such a perfect period (although the strategy and the video was around mid 2013) was a bit questionable to me, and that's why I decided to run to 'today's' date.

Anyway, this seems worth further research. Just want to share this with the group. Any comments welcomed!


Unfortunatley - you would NOT be making money with 3X ETF over a 3 year period as ther is an issue with these instruments since its based on options and "management fee" - there is some major "deterioration - if you hold more than a few weeks and volatility is high you will most likely be LOSING money!

Just my 2c

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 dstrader 
Chicago, USA
 
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ziggy123 View Post
Unfortunatley - you would NOT be making money with 3X ETF over a 3 year period as ther is an issue with these instruments since its based on options and "management fee" - there is some major "deterioration - if you hold more than a few weeks and volatility is high you will most likely be LOSING money!

Just my 2c

You are incorrect. VV uses historical prices in their backtest (open, close, high, low). So, it really doesn't matter what the underlying is doing. In addition, there was over 500 trades during the period, so it wasn't exactly a 'buy and hold'.

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 deaddog 
Legendary Market Wizard
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One of the cool tools in Vectorvest is the ability to see stock price and earnings on the same chart.

Keep in mind that the EPS shown on the chart are forecasted EPS and tend to be off a bit. I usually check any stock I’m interested in against a year ago forecast compared to 12 month trailing earnings. I find that the smoother the line the more accurate the forecasts.

I’ve attached a couple charts. It is an easy visual choice as to which stock you would want to own. I have owned both.
Stocks are both Canadian stocks but you get the idea.




The yellow line shows Vectorvest’s computed value
The white line is the 30 week ma that I use for exits
The price bars are weekly bars.
The EPS line is forecasted earnings that they apparently buy from Reuters.


I’m attempting to change my portfolio so that all my stocks have price and EPS moving from lower left to upper right.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 ckchau 
Hong Kong + Hong Kong
 
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Dr. Diliddo, the VectorVest founder, mentioned in his book. He bought the information and used it to compute earning growth rates... ( Stocks, Strategies and Common Sense, 1996, page 67). VV's EPS is indicating 12 month leading earnings per share (see page 66).

Just share it.


deaddog View Post
One of the cool tools in Vectorvest is the ability to see stock price and earnings on the same chart.

The EPS line is forecasted earnings that they apparently buy from Reuters.


I’m attempting to change my portfolio so that all my stocks have price and EPS moving from lower left to upper right.


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 SpyderTrader 
Chicago, Illinois
 
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I always log in here like once every 3 months...and post my thoughts on anything I've tried so that others know what works and what is a waste of time/money.
It should be noted that trading is an entertainment for me, a game really...I definitely do NOT trade for a living...I trade for shits and giggles.

That being said...PLEASE save your money on VectorVest.

1.
When you attend their live intro sessions, its nothing more than a bunch of testimonials.
Bunch of old guys talking about how much VectorVest has improved their trading and how much money their making in markets...but no real strategies.

Granted, their sales pitch is REALLY good...but after the X number of sales pitches I think any BMT user could figure out its all smoke.

To be honest with you the venue was REALLY fancy, and when I looked at their website, they have sales pitches all over the world, so they definitely are convincing more than 1 sucker to buy in.

2.
In case it wasnt totally obvious, these guys are targeting investors.
BMT is more for traders.
So my interest was limited going in.

3.
I would never buy anything sold by someone named "Dr. Dildo" (VectorVest founder).

Thanks.


ckchau View Post
Dr. Diliddo, the VectorVest founder, mentioned in his book. He bought the information and used it to compute earning growth rates... ( Stocks, Strategies and Common Sense, 1996, page 67). VV's EPS is indicating 12 month leading earnings per share (see page 66).

Just share it.


Around 5% move the market. 10% try to follow the 5%. The rest provide liquidity.
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 DrRumpy 
Canada
 
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SpyderTrader View Post
3.
I would never buy anything sold by someone named "Dr. Dildo" (VectorVest founder).
Thanks.

Not even a dildo?

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 deaddog 
Legendary Market Wizard
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SpyderTrader View Post
I always log in here like once every 3 months...and post my thoughts on anything I've tried so that others know what works and what is a waste of time/money.
It should be noted that trading is an entertainment for me, a game really...I definitely do NOT trade for a living...I trade for shits and giggles.

That being said...PLEASE save your money on VectorVest.

1.
When you attend their live intro sessions, its nothing more than a bunch of testimonials.
Bunch of old guys talking about how much VectorVest has improved their trading and how much money their making in markets...but no real strategies.

Granted, their sales pitch is REALLY good...but after the X number of sales pitches I think any BMT user could figure out its all smoke.

To be honest with you the venue was REALLY fancy, and when I looked at their website, they have sales pitches all over the world, so they definitely are convincing more than 1 sucker to buy in.

2.
In case it wasnt totally obvious, these guys are targeting investors.
BMT is more for traders.
So my interest was limited going in.

3.
I would never buy anything sold by someone named "Dr. Dildo" (VectorVest founder).

Thanks.

I would like to disagree with this.

To start with maybe you should listen to the old guys, you might learn something. After all you can’t buy experience in the market.

What do you mean no strategies? Vectorvest has dozens of canned strategies. What I like about the program is that it allows you to modify the strategies and provides you with the tools to backtest them. You also have the capability to write and backtest your own strategy.

I agree the sales pitch is good and should be considered as a sales pitch. The strategies they show are cherry picked to show returns that are probably not sustainable on an ongoing basis. (HINT: no strategy works all the time) The object like any sales pitch is to get you to try the product. If you are serious about trading/investing you should try the 5 week trial for the exorbitant price of $9.95.

They don’t target investors as such. Their target is stock traders. There is nothing for futures or forex traders. What they are selling is a very powerful data base which allows you to sort thru all the stocks listed on the major exchanges in the US. It is the best search engine I have found.

For an additional monthly fee (of course) you can get real-time data that a day trader could probably make use of. (As a swing trader I use EOD data).

The name of the vendor would never influence my judgement of the product. I judge it by its results.

And finally NO I’m not a paid shill for Vectorvest. YES I’m one of those Old Guys who tried the product and found that it more than paid for itself.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 Papertrade 
Las vegas NV
 
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I have used VV in my Rookie year 2000 and from what I read in this thread their business model haven't changed much.

I did get burnt in my first few months by following the software blindly that's when I decided to investigate deeper.

Someone said They don't have a forum... They use to have one at yahoo groups but I remember people being banned for being constantly vocal about VV misleading practices so it's quite possible They closed it.

One of the main complaints back then was that the software wouldn't adjust for reverse split and many many companies were doing it to avoid deletion from the exchange (The exchange would replace them if They dropped below $5) So if you backtested poor perfomance stocks above $10 sure enough those stocks would be on top of the list and if You had just short them You had made a small fortune however had You run that sorting strategie real time those stocks wouldn't be there as They were already Below $10.


Dr Bart Dolittle would proud himself of his proprietary market timing tool that never missed calling a major market turn, if it went up for 2 weeks that would mean a major trend reversal, I painstakingly put those values on a spreadsheet (no importing) and built a chart. Upon examining I noticed that He missed almost half of the calls..when investigating further in the forum I found that those were not part of Dr. Bart "best calls" meaning They were ignored.. WTF... anyone can do it in hindsight, furthermore I noticed a remarkable similarity between his tool and the global dow index.. hmmm every good investor will tell you that if the major indexes closed higher for 2 consecutive weeks that would likely put an end on the current Bear leg.

Another interesting misleading claim was That They would brag that their investors were recommended to ditch Enron well ahead of the scandal, upon checking the recommendation history Enron was a buy then went to a hold and stayed a hold recommendation for a long time and just went to a sell recommendation when the stock was already down big time, but They considered it was out of the portfolio as it went from buy to hold.

Also together with their market turn call They would present a new strategy that had outrageous performance in backtest but would perform not so good in real time ...curve fitted to the max???

That being said their model portfolio used to do well for aggressive investor +50% year but conservative investor would constantly be out of the market or entering when the trend was well advanced and about to turn again.

Also VV is/was a good value/growth stock sorting however overpriced.

I never again paid for anything that wasn't trading education related (basically books).

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 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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all there stuff is good ..i used it for three years..but it is for swing stock traders....not so good for day trading...futures not much help

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 dynoweb 
McKinney, TX
 
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Thanks for all the comments here, it does give me a base of realistic expectations.

Can anyone do a back test that would consider using all of the S&P 500, or 100 if that's easier, stocks in a long only portfolio starting 2007 to present. What would be the best return of any strategy? Then add the ability to short stocks and let us know the results. Then one other test would be to do a short only strategy and provide the results.

What I'm looking for is to see what happens when you aren't cherry picking the stocks which make up the portfolio and to include a bear market and not just a raging bull market with long stocks.

Thanks in advance.

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 deaddog 
Legendary Market Wizard
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dynoweb View Post
Thanks for all the comments here, it does give me a base of realistic expectations.

Can anyone do a back test that would consider using all of the S&P 500, or 100 if that's easier, stocks in a long only portfolio starting 2007 to present. What would be the best return of any strategy? Then add the ability to short stocks and let us know the results. Then one other test would be to do a short only strategy and provide the results.

What I'm looking for is to see what happens when you aren't cherry picking the stocks which make up the portfolio and to include a bear market and not just a raging bull market with long stocks.

Thanks in advance.

You can get a 5 week trial for 10 bucks. It will give you a chance to test drive all the features and make up your mind.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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vector vest has very good back testing tools,,but the better ones are expensive add ons. the system is made for swing trading your I R A. and it is as good as it gets. here is the problem ... you will need to trade a basket of 10 to 20 stocks to get deversitived. at 20.00 a round trip an no real leverage because you hare holding over a few days to weeks..you need a 200,000 account or more to make much. the slippage is more on stocks ...they can gap passed your stop, they can halt trading. when you get stop out on some the slippage can be breath taking... if shorting some times the broker does not have the inventory to barrow so your older can get hung in no mans land not knowing if it is filled or not.

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 deaddog 
Legendary Market Wizard
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forgiven View Post
here is the problem ... you will need to trade a basket of 10 to 20 stocks to get deversitived. at 20.00 a round trip an no real leverage because you hare holding over a few days to weeks..you need a 200,000 account or more to make much. the slippage is more on stocks ...they can gap passed your stop, they can halt trading. when you get stop out on some the slippage can be breath taking... if shorting some times the broker does not have the inventory to barrow so your older can get hung in no mans land not knowing if it is filled or not.

I found that a basket of 5 stocks was optimum for backtesting. I only have the basic subscription and don't use their timing features. My trades are long term and last until the stop is hit.

The number I pay most attention to is the max drawdown.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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all but the daily derby .. if a person is is investing in the cream 5 stocks is fine.. my post was referencing try to make a living wage trading... i got my number 10 to 20 from the course i bought from vector vest. that is what they said. i made a little money trading stocks with there software. it is good. i went to futures for leverage and less slippage and com..i make a little here and there too. but i do it on a account that is smaller ..i like there software and methods 5 stars

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