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Scams: Prediction Point Trading, Hindsight Trading, Market Mover Trading


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Scams: Prediction Point Trading, Hindsight Trading, Market Mover Trading

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  #1 (permalink)
 flipper26 
toronto, ontario/canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader, mt4
Trading: TF, Currencies, ZS
 
Posts: 133 since Oct 2011

Attended a webinar from Prediction Point Trading today. The creator, Sean Larsgard, claims to have a proprietary mathematical formula that allows him to identify key levels on the ES. Multitudes of past days are posted on his site for you to verify his accuracy (amazing how good they are after the fact). You can get these levels emailed to you for $4995 but today only $100/month. I immediately knew this was too good to be true and had no interest but was concerned by the interest of the other participants in the webinar. I wanted to see what I could find out about this company and the creator of these miracle levels. It took me awhile but I did find out that Sean was the founder of Hindsight Trading and CEO of Market Mover Trading. It was no surprise to me that there were complaints about both companies - excessive cost, products did not deliver as promised, and people had difficult getting their money back.

It bothers me that there are so many individuals and companies like this, in this industry. It makes it very difficult to sort through the really good products and individuals.

I put this post here to caution others to be wary that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is and always, always do your due diligence. I have never bought a product that I could not touch, feel and try out first, and doing so has saved me a bundle. I won't even look at products where they have a so called "money back guarantee" - just search the internet, there are so many people having difficulty getting refunds for products that didn't deliver. If there is no free trial available I'd sooner pass, and it tells me that the company does not have sufficient confidence in their product.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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Are these daily key levels? There are a few sites out there with over a decade or two of experience selling key levels for multiple instruments. However, I haven't seen a site where they instead of deliver for a fee, actually teach one to come up with s/r levels as good as said sites.

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  #5 (permalink)
 flipper26 
toronto, ontario/canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader, mt4
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Posts: 133 since Oct 2011


Cloudy View Post
Are these daily key levels? There are a few sites out there with over a decade or two of experience selling key levels for multiple instruments. However, I haven't seen a site where they instead of deliver for a fee, actually teach one to come up with s/r levels as good as said sites.

They don't teach you how to come up with the levels. The mathematical formula is in this guy's head and only he can calculate these key levels. There are reputable companies selling key levels but clearly Prediction Point Trading cannot be considered one of them.

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  #6 (permalink)
 rplust 
Thailand
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 5 since Jun 2012
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As I trade off levels, I just attended the seminar for 15 min with the intention to ask a question. But i'ts not live as pretended, just a video. Anyway, the result of an intraday MTF Pivot calculator (it's free, no secret formular) I compared gives the same levels as published on the guy's website. Not really a surprise, is it! That even a Financial Analyst at Goldman Sachs would use the service as mentioned under "Gossip" should give the whole thing a "wow" factor. Gossip indeed.

Fancy websites and "secrete discoveries" still seem to make a lot of money from novice traders who grasp every straw (which in fact I do understand).

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  #7 (permalink)
 Cristian 
Bucharest - Romania
 
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http://survey-smiles.com

This guy is running now a new scam website named dopanalytics.com
No physical address for his company and no phone number.
In his presentations he does not even dare to present himself with his first name and last name.
His trading room costs 750 USD/month !! but not real proof of his consistency, only images of his alleged prior trades but nothing that can not be counterfeit.
A lot of (phony) popups showing people who subscribe in real time to his TR during the webinar.
No trials for his TR or his indies.
All the ingredients for a "hit and run" are present with this new site dopanalytics.com
He has a Linkedin page as a "DOP Analytics" founder and even there his name is only "Sean L"

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  #8 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
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Cristian View Post
http://survey-smiles.com

This guy is running now a new scam website named dopanalytics.com
No physical address for his company and no phone number.
In his presentations he does not even dare to present himself with his first name and last name.
His trading room costs 750 USD/month !! but not real proof of his consistency, only images of his alleged prior trades but nothing that can not be counterfeit.
A lot of (phony) popups showing people who subscribe in real time to his TR during the webinar.
No trials for his TR or his indies.
All the ingredients for a "hit and run" are present with this new site dopanalytics.com
He has a Linkedin page as a "DOP Analytics" founder and even there his name is only "Sean L"

I received one of his emails this weekend. Watched the video. Long story short, the guy should be shut down immediately. A complete scam.

The scams seem to be popping up more frequently again. I'm getting more emails from gurus hawking junk. Maybe we should start reporting to the CFTC.

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  #9 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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taking the range of the overnight market. when the range is 50 to 65 % of normal using the volume POC as the price magnet . where price will retest 80 % of the time in the next days RTH. IT MAY but not be for your stop is triggered 75% of the time. lola the 800 a month trade room looks like the best deal. they make 40 points a day trading the NQ. LETS JOIN AND GO DOWN AND GET US NEW a BMW

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  #10 (permalink)
 4tison 
PhuKet Island / Thailand
 
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flipper26 View Post
Attended a webinar from Prediction Point Trading today. The creator, Sean Larsgard, claims to have a proprietary mathematical formula that allows him to identify key levels on the ES. Multitudes of past days are posted on his site for you to verify his accuracy (amazing how good they are after the fact). You can get these levels emailed to you for $4995 but today only $100/month. I immediately knew this was too good to be true and had no interest but was concerned by the interest of the other participants in the webinar. I wanted to see what I could find out about this company and the creator of these miracle levels. It took me awhile but I did find out that Sean was the founder of Hindsight Trading and CEO of Market Mover Trading. It was no surprise to me that there were complaints about both companies - excessive cost, products did not deliver as promised, and people had difficult getting their money back.

It bothers me that there are so many individuals and companies like this, in this industry. It makes it very difficult to sort through the really good products and individuals.

I put this post here to caution others to be wary that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is and always, always do your due diligence. I have never bought a product that I could not touch, feel and try out first, and doing so has saved me a bundle. I won't even look at products where they have a so called "money back guarantee" - just search the internet, there are so many people having difficulty getting refunds for products that didn't deliver. If there is no free trial available I'd sooner pass, and it tells me that the company does not have sufficient confidence in their product.

Almost everyday, the same type of operation
as you mentioned, squeezes in their ads,
between the youtube programs....

.... I am Jason.... and I taught my students
all over the world how to trade Gold and Crude Oil.
These are my millionnaire students, listen to their
testimonies.... LOL

May be there are some trading outfits or brokers or
vendors or some successful traders
who trade their own charts and accounts,

and you only pay whatever sum, you agree to pay,
out of your profitable account only.

I am sure you can find such common sense
operation out there, somewhere.... or maybe
if you ask members of the forum, someone
would know and help you out.

Profitable trading everyone.

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  #11 (permalink)
 4tison 
PhuKet Island / Thailand
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart NT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 124 since Jul 2018
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forgiven View Post
taking the range of the overnight market. when the range is 50 to 65 % of normal using the volume POC as the price magnet . where price will retest 80 % of the time in the next days RTH. IT MAY but not be for your stop is triggered 75% of the time. lola the 800 a month trade room looks like the best deal. they make 40 points a day trading the NQ. LETS JOIN AND GO DOWN AND GET US NEW a BMW

L O L ....

You didn't mention the ads
as per required by BM

when you reviewed something like that....

what is the ads and his/her name....?

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  #12 (permalink)
TraderEX
 
 
Posts: 96 since Sep 2018
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flipper26 View Post
Attended a webinar from Prediction Point Trading today. The creator, Sean Larsgard, claims to have a proprietary mathematical formula that allows him to identify key levels on the ES. Multitudes of past days are posted on his site for you to verify his accuracy (amazing how good they are after the fact). You can get these levels emailed to you for $4995 but today only $100/month. I immediately knew this was too good to be true and had no interest but was concerned by the interest of the other participants in the webinar. I wanted to see what I could find out about this company and the creator of these miracle levels. It took me awhile but I did find out that Sean was the founder of Hindsight Trading and CEO of Market Mover Trading. It was no surprise to me that there were complaints about both companies - excessive cost, products did not deliver as promised, and people had difficult getting their money back.

It bothers me that there are so many individuals and companies like this, in this industry. It makes it very difficult to sort through the really good products and individuals.

I put this post here to caution others to be wary that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is and always, always do your due diligence. I have never bought a product that I could not touch, feel and try out first, and doing so has saved me a bundle. I won't even look at products where they have a so called "money back guarantee" - just search the internet, there are so many people having difficulty getting refunds for products that didn't deliver. If there is no free trial available I'd sooner pass, and it tells me that the company does not have sufficient confidence in their product.

I have a winning system. it is not for sale or gifted to just anyone. If you track my record, you will see. I do share ideas for thought. In my mind I am giving my secrets to the earnest. Sometimes actual trade times and sometimes summaries.

If a product existed that won, all it takes is more contracts. Educators can tell what you should know but NO ONE guarantees success. I could guarantee success. What is the retail price for a winning system. Defined-a system that will extract profit consistently and minimize risk.

TY-

TraderEX

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  #13 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
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TraderEX View Post
I have a winning system. it is not for sale or gifted to just anyone. If you track my record, you will see. I do share ideas for thought. In my mind I am giving my secrets to the earnest. Sometimes actual trade times and sometimes summaries.

If a product existed that won, all it takes is more contracts. Educators can tell what you should know but NO ONE guarantees success. I could guarantee success. What is the retail price for a winning system. Defined-a system that will extract profit consistently and minimize risk.

TY-

TraderEX

I also have the cure for cancer, multiple sclerosis, nine types of dementia and the heart break of psoriasis. But I ain't giving it to anyone because everyone would be healthy and WTF - what happens to the drug industry?

Do you realize how stupid your comment is? Think about it.

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  #14 (permalink)
 dyoung 
Boston, MA
 
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Posts: 12 since Apr 2019
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rplust View Post
As I trade off levels, I just attended the seminar for 15 min with the intention to ask a question. But i'ts not live as pretended, just a video. Anyway, the result of an intraday MTF Pivot calculator (it's free, no secret formular) I compared gives the same levels as published on the guy's website. Not really a surprise, is it! That even a Financial Analyst at Goldman Sachs would use the service as mentioned under "Gossip" should give the whole thing a "wow" factor. Gossip indeed.

Fancy websites and "secrete discoveries" still seem to make a lot of money from novice traders who grasp every straw (which in fact I do understand).

Does anyone know what the MTF Pivot calculator is? I've googled it and can't seem to get much traction

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  #15 (permalink)
 Dasani 
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
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Broker: NinjaTrader
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These guys are back. They now call themselves "Day Trade Like a Pro".

https://www.daytradelikeapro.com/

Beware.

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  #16 (permalink)
 AllSeeker 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
Mumbai, India
 
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dyoung View Post
Does anyone know what the MTF Pivot calculator is? I've googled it and can't seem to get much traction

Little late but I think he means multitimeframe pivots, you can easily do that on any professional trading software, even sometimes broker software. You can do that on excel and python too, condition is that you have timeframe data of last bar of same which you want the pivot calculated for.

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  #17 (permalink)
Gauer
garopaba + santa catarina
 
 
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95% of those vendors out there, either selling indicators, systems or courses, are all embezzlers/hustlers and/or copycats fishing for noobs, but they are so astute that they can even fool advanced traders sometimes.

It would be nice to have a special thread here in the forum with a list of scammers sites so people can stay away from them.

It is very common for people to waste a lot of money with those people in the beginning of their trading journey, I certainly did. With luck, people can find the thread when googling about "X" vendor and then be more careful.

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lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
 
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Gauer View Post
95% of those vendors out there, either selling indicators, systems or courses, are all embezzlers/hustlers and/or copycats fishing for noobs, but they are so astute that they can even fool advanced traders sometimes.

It would be nice to have a special thread here in the forum with a list of scammers sites so people can stay away from them.

It is very common for people to waste a lot of money with those people in the beginning of their trading journey, I certainly did. With luck, people can find the thread when googling about "X" vendor and then be more careful.

I would also like to have a dedicated thread to expose these scammers, but I think Big Mike is gonna have more enemies in the future just like Emmet Moore.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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 AllSeeker 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
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While I agree with the sentiment, generally a thread like that results into a "accusation war" which is just a mess to handle and regulate. I've seen similar thread on forexfactory. I feel its not suitable for the atmosphere here, which is much more professional and you can indeed make independent threads for asking reviews, which is much more appropriate and reasonable where both accuser and vendor can have fair chance at presenting the case.

tldr; it will just ruin the forum atmosphere and its not good to throw stones in that kind of mud, it will leave stain on cloths

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  #20 (permalink)
 locky 
Brisbane Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES
 
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Dasani View Post
These guys are back. They now call themselves "Day Trade Like a Pro".

https://www.daytradelikeapro.com/

Beware.

Any chance these latest guys could be invited to present their Prediction Points in a futures.io webinar, so we can all assess/evaluate their claims? I believe they're willing to participate.

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  #21 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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locky View Post
Any chance these latest guys could be invited to present their Prediction Points in a futures.io webinar, so we can all assess/evaluate their claims? I believe they're willing to participate.

Well, if you are really interested in this company and you're strongly convinced that they are NOT a scam, you might make a suggestion to @Big Mike....but tbh, I'm sure he gets a lot of these offers just because most vendors only search for a bigger place in order to present their 'holy grail' software....

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
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I found this thread after I tried DayTradeLikeAPro (DTLAP) free month subscription for their Prediction Points (PP) service. It is actually pretty good, based on my limited exposure to these levels, especially on CL. As of last Friday (4/23/2021) I have traded these levels for 12 trading sessions so far (after doing extensive backtesting chart work) and was profitable 8 of those days, simply leaning on these levels as a main narrative/bias. I still have a few trading days left on my free trial but chances are I will probably subscribe to this service after my free trial expires.

I do, however, trade these levels quite differently compared to what the site owners/principals recommend or employ since I already have an existing trading methodology. I simply applied my current trading methodology to these levels and have been quite successful & profitable thus far.

The title of this thread seems to indicate that this is all a scam. I disagree with that notion, that's my opinion. The site does offer a multitude of services such as Daily Trade Signals, and various other trade rooms, which provides training and call out trades, all of which I have little or no interest in participating and have no opinion as to their validity or usefulness.

For those you are interested, the PP levels are usually posted prior to ETH market open for the following instruments: ES, NQ, RTY, YM, CL, & GC. As I mentioned earlier, anybody can request a one-month free trial to check out these levels. So, really nothing monetary to lose here, just your time if you wish to try it out, as I did. Also, once you subscribe to the free trial, you will be able to plot all the past levels on your charts going all the way back to June, 2020. Personally, I did a few months' worth of chart work backtesting, just on CL, before actually using these levels to trade.

Just my 2 cents folks. And nah, I am not affiliated or have any financial interest with this vendor.

Regards,
Ricardo aka PilotTrader

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  #23 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
Site Moderator
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@dburn23: So, can you please confirm that you are acting as the vendor DayTradeLikeAPro or another partner company?

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 dburn23   is a Vendor
 
 
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@Daytrader999 I am part owner of Day Trade Like a Pro.

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 Daytrader999 
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  #26 (permalink)
 quantstyle 
Hong Kong
 
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flipper26 View Post
They don't teach you how to come up with the levels. The mathematical formula is in this guy's head and only he can calculate these key levels. There are reputable companies selling key levels but clearly Prediction Point Trading cannot be considered one of them.

Can you name some of those reputable companies providing key levels? Alternatively, Feel free to send me a direct message. Thanks

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