I investigated this room (I get bored during the day).
She uses a 3 tiered-profit target method.
Very disciplined.
Are you okay with an inverted reward:risk ratio overall (on initial entry)?
And, she uses mit orders (how many Ninjatraders can use this) on entry.
Here was my report to my trading partner.
I enjoy looking at trading rooms in my spare time. She is now doing 6E trades and hourly trades on the ES.
It is free for a trial and here are some links.
Why don't you trial it and tell us your experience, eh?
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I was in this trading room for a few days 2 months ago. She is the real deal. Good trader. And they make money in the room every week. No teaching of the method unless you pony out the big bucks. I suppose one could 'earn as they learn.'
I didn't care for the inverted reward to risk ratio and the 3 unit scaling out though.
Just to correct a couple things. Mit orders are not used. Entries are based on market structure and if the market is moving quickly, entries will happen quickly. If you are just watching in the room, some entries will happen too quickly for them to be announced and for you to act. These fast calls happen from time to time and sometimes generate complaints. The room moderator seems to have noticed and is starting to give a heads-up when an entry looks to be developing. But again, if the market is moving too fast, advance notice is not always possible.
As someone who has learned the system I use stop orders, never market orders. Once you know what to look for, you don't have to wait for the entry to be called out - you just place your stop order at the appropriate price.
Initial risk is normally larger by 1, sometimes 2 depending on rounding, ticks than the initial first target. There are usually 3 fixed targets and the 4th trails. Stops and targets are based on the chart interval you trade, so a 10 range chart will have stops and targets that are twice the size of a 5 range chart. Same idea with time based charts: a 60 minute chart will have larger stops and targets than a 1 minute chart.
Purpose of room is to advertise for the training (this is stated almost every day in the room). Room price is reasonable and based on my experience, even just trading 1 contract I can't see how you couldn't at least recoup the cost.
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@stymie, are you still in the room? Can you give an update since your post in Feb? The fib tool that she uses for entry, targets, etc - is that made available to you once you sign-up for the education? Thanks
I am not in the room anymore. I would be if the fee they charge me would be to only recoup their costs to run the room. After paying for the education program, I don't think it's right for them to continue to make money from me from my attendance in their room. Makes me wonder if they do any of their own trading, or if their income is just from room and course fees. In retrospect, I should have just continued with the regular room fee and not bothered taking the course. If I ever get my time machine working, I will do this.
The tool is made available but it is just a fib retrace tool with custom labels to replace the % levels used. If they used the regular fib tool in the room, those secret levels wouldn't be secret any longer. I never used the customized tool, the built-in tool in Ninja (or whatever platform) works just as well as long as you know the levels. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out if you watch its use in the room.
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The system is good, but like any system some traders will do well while others won't. There is some discretion involved in choosing entries.
The room is not necessary once you've learned the system. The spam promoting other's trading services ("Since you signed up with us, we thought you'd like to see what this vendor has to offer") and the upselling emails ("if you like our regular system, you'll love our advanced course. Hurry and sign up, the price is going up soon") will still continue even after you leave. Ditto for the MMM type emails ("Tell your friends. If they sign up, we'll send you $$$").
Stymie
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Due to family/personal issues, I haven't done any trading in the past few months. Hope to start again soon once the issues are dealt with. I plan to use this method.
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HI stymie, I'd like to sign up to their education program, just needed to get some pointers from you, dont want to waste good money in case, can I bother you with couple of questions privately please?
I am a trader who bought the course. After spending over $35K on software, indicators and trading rooms, I can state that this is the first one that has really taught me a method that actually works. You must get the setups and 2 basic rules down and you can win in excess of 75% of your trades. I win in excess of 85% of mine by takng only the best setups. She teaches you how to use price action only. I have not had a losing day in a couple weeks; and have only been trading her system for about 2 months. This past week I had one BE day and all winning days other than that one BE day. When I had losing days--it was not the what she taught me, but reverting to my old style of trying to catch the top or bottom. When I use patience and wait for a setup, by what she teaches, I win over 85% of the time. I have been working hard to break some of my old habits and this past week I did not revert to any of them. I took only the trades she teaches. I am improving all the time. I am overly cautious now to assure that I do not revert to my old habits and miss some trades that I see too late. I will not chase them anymore. When I did earlier (again my old habit) I would have a losing day more often than not.
So if you have discipline to trade only her setups, her method is a winner. Hope this helps some of you.
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She is a smart foreign broad, ain't she? If I was ever going to get married, I would marry a chick who earned and worked hard; so I could spend some of her money~~you know, so she knew I cared about her and stuff, eh?
Discipline & rule-based issues? Check out this blog post. I commented in there as 'hedvig' as well.
Work on your old habit issues every day for 20 minutes (meditate on it--seriously); you'll come out the other side an AWESOMELY consistent trader. Trading is boring to me {though I appreciate it more each year}. Treat it like a very high-paying job & then concentrate on at least 2 other passions outside of trading; you'll be a better trader and a better man for it.
peace
hedvig
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I think he referred 35K as the complete amount that he has spent on various stuff like software, indicators and trading rooms, and not the cost of a single software.
That is correct--this is the amount that I have spent (in excess of that and now with Alpha closer to 40K) since I started to day-trade in Feb 2008 on all software and trading rooms. I thought that I could always find a better software package, indicators and/or a trading room where I could win by taking their trades; however, as most who have been down this route can attest too--this is a losing proposition.
Until Alla, all the trading rooms wanted to sell their software and indicators. I do not think most (if any) actually traded for a living, but lived off newbies searching for the Holy Grail.
I could name those software packages I have tried and the trading rooms that I have been in; however, I am not going to go there: the reason is because their are traders who state they can use those methods and no doubt there are; however, I believe that they have incorprated other things they know and experience to be successful---experience and time in the market is the best teacher.
Once I got rid of all those indacators and learned price structure with candlestick patterns, then I became successful too.
Trading is the most difficult undertaking I have ever attempted. I have been highly successful in all my life endeavors until trading.
To be successful in trading, just about everything you learned to succeed in life has to be ignored. This was the most difficult part for me to do and I still struggle at times because I believed that one could always be successful as long as you gathered the facts/information; assimilated, analyzed and synthesized that information; and then used inductive and/or deductive reasoning to arrive at a good decision. This does not work in trading and it is difficult to accept that you will make wrong decisions at times in trading--especially when life has taught you how successful you have been in the past by using the aforementioned method.
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Ask your Qs here, maybe others will learn something from them.
No need to worry about wasting money. Stay in the room for a few months and you should earn enough to cover the education fee (if you haven't earned that much after 4-5 months, you probably shouldn't be trading). But be prepared to withstand the "Hurry, sign up now before the prices go up" pressure.
Stymie
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Stymie thanks for fielding questions! I went in the room for one day after a webinar and didn't go back because I thought a few times she was calling out the entry after it had already moved ( like another room I was in did). I doubt you could have got her fill in the room all the time. I get the impression from you that the method is legit and ...
1. maybe if we study the 8 range chart she uses it might give me a heads up on when to be ready for her price? She does give a warning, but it is still possible to miss it.
2. The inverse risk/reward ratio put me off some. One of her trades hit Target One and then stopped out for an overall loss, but it shows up as a winner if you just look at the winning trades column. You think I could cover the cost of the room and make some money trading one contract to start? Could I get enough fills is my question?
3. I understand she has to make her levels "secret" or you could just use the Ninja tool, but she can't change them too much or they won't be Fibonacci, probably close?
She did say she doesn't trade live when she is moderating 2 rooms at once. Combine that with the constant emails to buy and watch her partner webinars and you can see why I was put off. I wouldn't pay anyone 3k again for education, but it seems like you didn't need the education package to make money, so I may give the monthly room a shot based on your comments, (thanks in advance, we'll see what you say). If you stay in the room long enough you will pay more than the education package! I guess I am figuring that you could have figured it out before that crossover of expenses happens after 18 months of room fees.
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I`ve had a few free days in her room and I completely agree with all of your points, Longboat. With enough time in the room I think you can probably determine the fib levels that`re used. It is the other criteria that she uses to qualify the trade before entering that I think would be valuable to learn.
From what I`ve seen, you should be able to get enough trades especially if you trade TF, NQ and 6E, as she does, but I agree with your concerns on the risk/reward ratio.
If you do go ahead with it, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.
Fellows, the fibs is nothing secret about them; however, how she draws the fibs is different than anyone else that I have seen and different than how I use to draw them too. The real secret to her trades is the price structure and candlestick patterns she uses plus the rules for those structures and patterns.
As I stated before, I never was a successful trader until I learned this method. It is well worth the price because if you learn this method, you can make a living in the market. In the last week I had 17 trades and 15 were winners!
I take my own trades using her method and not what Alla calls because she calls every possible trade she sees with her method. I personally take the high probabilty ones where I can see how the longer time frame charts are possibly setting up for her method too. I take trades primarily off the 8 and 13 range charts, but am watching the 21 range and 60 min charts too. If I enter off the 8 range I like to see the 13 range in a possible price structure too and if is not I take all my profit at the first target area.
I will be in trades that she calls, but I have already seen the pattern, and because she is watching 3 markets and answering questions she does miss some trades.
Another reason I do not follow her calls is that she is watching the 6E and NQ. I do not trade any of those. I use to trade the 6E but it has been so dead during the US session I have stopped. I follow the CL, Tf and ES now.
As far as her readjusting her fibs after an entry, you would understand if you knew the method. When she does this it is because she is calling the more conservative entry; however, she readusts the fib when the fill is because the conservative entry is not where the pattern is and you have to readjust the fib to get the proper price target.
I hope this helps you with some of your problems. I would say Stymie has not really learned the method and has it down pat, or he would be very happy with his results using the method.
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I could show any entry and that could be a lie because anyone can trade the left side of the chart.
I believe you want to see charts and have explantions of the entry to try to learn the method without paying. I will not share such charts.
Howevere, I will share my performance record straight out of my Ninja so you have verification of my actual performance. This is more proof than any marked up chart can show about how well a trader can trade a method. I have not seen anyone else in Big Mike's offer this as proof of a method.
Send me an email and I will attach it to a reply. I did signa non-disclosure statement and am an honorable man as well as a Christian and cannot explain the method.
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If the market is moving quickly, it can seem like the calls are coming after the fact. No need to worry because if you miss an entry, there will almost certainly be another a bit later. Since there are no indicators used, entries are based on candles, and since you are using range bars, you will know where the bar will end so you can place your entry (using stop orders) before the candle closes.
Studying the 8 range chart will help. If you mark your chart with her entries and stop levels and look at enough of them, you should be able to figure it out.
She uses a good MM system and if you follow it you should never lose $$ on any trade that reaches target one. You peel off most of your contracts at target one so the only way to lose would be if you got really bad slippage on your remaining stops. In my experience, the only trades that lost were the ones that never made target one.
The inverse risk/reward issue does exist. How much importance you give it depends on your style. Target one on an 8 range chart is 8 ticks and the stop is 9 ticks. If you front run the target (recommended) then you risk 9 ticks to make 7. The positive expectancy of the entries is enough for me so that I am not worried about the risk/reward issue.
Based on my experience, I stand by my belief that someone can easily cover the cost of the room each month and earn enough that they could (by increasing contract size as their account grows) earn the education fee within 6 months. Though by that time some will have figured things out and not need to take the education. Even by starting out trading only one contract.
The target levels are fib based. I've never been a fan of fib levels as sometimes they are respected, mostly they're not. I don't use her targets because of my lack of confidence in fib levels. Draw enough lines on a chart and one of them will mark a turning point. Instead I just trail my stop.
When I started with her, I thought she made most of her money trading. I really wanted to learn how to trade waves (don't know why I was so obsessed with waves) and her fees were much lower back then so I signed up. As her business grew, it became more and more like other educators and after a while I came to the conclusion that they're not really any different from the other setups out there that make their money on education and room fees rather than on trading. This is reinforced each time they sell my email address to other educators/mentors (I got 2 emails from them touting other educators this week alone). I've never been able to figure out why, if their method is so good, that they want us to look at other methods too. Their business model seems to have changed since I started with them. Their method seems sound, but their business practices don't appeal to me. If they charged a fee that just covered the cost of a seat in their webinar room, I would still be with them, but after paying them for the education, I don't like the idea of them making a couple hundred bucks off me each month for the privilege of hearing her speak (even though she does sound like a wonderful person).
If I knew then what I knew now, I would not have paid for the education up front, I would have stayed in the room, paying the monthly fee, until I earned enough to cover the course fees. I may even have figured it out by myself.
Stymie
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I never said I was unhappy with the results (I was profitable with it). Not sure why my posts are hard for you to understand, but they all say that the method is fine, it is the business practices of the outfit that I have an issue with.
Stymie
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I don't trade the same as rogera nor have I ever been in alla's room or have any affiliation with her or any other vendor (I don't ever plan on paying for a trading room), but I do talk with rogera frequently about trading (we have been friends for a while now) and what he is saying is true. I have seen him trade many different systems, unsuccessfully, but now he is finally successful. So, if you decide to dismiss his posts as "sale's talk," then that's your decision, but I know what he is saying to be true.
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No free trial - she charges 9.99 for a week, then has your credit card info and will roll it into the full room price if you don't cancel before the end of the trial week.
Can't trust a vendor who charges for a trial.
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I just signed up with them, and noticed the good christian's name in the room too. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll let u have the final unbiased verdict. Watch this space.
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I did not sign any such agreement, however, even though I am not a good Christian (I'm not a bad Christian either - I'm agnostic) I am careful not to divulge the method as that would not be fair to the vendor or those who did sign up with them and pay.
There are free trials to the room. I get lots of emails advertising these free days in their room (I think there was one this past week). Sign up to enough of the Ninjatrader partner webinars and you'll eventually get these invitations to their free days.
The trial week is only $10 I think (has it changed since I was with them?), and you should earn enough in that week to pay for the week and at least one month's room fee. Try to take at least one of the free days first before the week so you can get used to the room and then you'll make the most of the week you had to pay for.
I don't think they had my credit card info as I cancelled my monthly subscription via Paypal without any problems.
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I just took the $9.99 trial. They did not give out many trades each day. Saying Aug is a slow month and big traders that move the market are on vacation and not trading. Here is the problem I have. After the trial it cost $179 each month. From what they said people who are in the education room (those who paid for their program) get more trade signals than those who is in the regular trading room(those who pay $179 per month or on $9.99 trial). I remember one day in the trading room they called out a couple of trades-one winner and one loser. Since their stops are normally bigger than their targets so you will end up on the downside that day. Then they said people in the education room had 6 trades in NQ and they were all winners and hit the targets. See the problem here if you want to sign up to be in the trading room. I myself is interested in the program but have to research more before shoving out the $3000 plus. They gave out a free webinar on this Wed and they said they had 3 trades in NQ all winners and hit targets. I remember that day very well. We had one trade in NQ in the trading room and it got stop out right after we entered but no mentioning about the losing one.
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Thanks for your updated input. Sounds like things have changed since I was in the room. Back then the calls were made in the regular room and the education room was used to discuss the trades in detail. I never would have thought that some trades would only be called in the education room. This new setup seems kind of sketchy to me.
I will rescind any recommendations I have made in prior posts.
Good luck and be careful.
Stymie
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I am 2 days into my trial and it doesn't appear that that is the case Mervyn. It seems that in the other chat room students are posting their trades on other instruments like CL for example that she is not calling out in the room. The stats on the website only include the TF, NQ and 6E which she is trading and moderating. I think there is another moderator in the education room too or at least he posts his CL trades there, but not sure since I can't see it.
I'll keep you advised of what I see. Today there was a loser on NQ, 2 TF winners and 2 6E winners.
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My trial in the room ended last Thursday. During my trial it was someone named Jonathan calling out trades in the trading room because Alla (the creator of Alpha Wave) lost her voice. If she is back with her voice then she might have given out more trade signals in the room. Jonathan did mention that he mainly trades CL perhaps that was the reason why we were not given more signals. I remember the day when Alla said (she was not talking but typed into the chat) people in the education room had six trades on NQ (all winners) vs one NQ trade in the trading room. Someone in the trading room did ask Alla would being in the education room get him more signals than those in the trading room and Alla said yes. If trades were called out by students learning in the education room then there was no reason for Alla to say education room had more trades than trading room. If I were to pay her $179 a month I feel I should get every single trade that she or Jonathan calls out. If being in the education room entitle me to more trades then I should not have to pay her $179 each month for the room but to purchase her program instead because that would get me into the education room. Of course, if I buy the program then I will just learn how to do it myself so I would not care how many trades they call out in the education room. But for someone who pay $179 for the trading room and not get the same trades in education room( suppose she is the one who calls out trade in the education room) then I think it is wrong. Keep us inform of your remaining trail, LongBoat.
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I've been in her room many times over the past few months on "free" days that she gives out to entice people to join fulltime. Jonathan trades CL and does so in another room. It's never been clear to me how many rooms she has going at once but she definitely has more than one room going at a time and she will move and converse between the rooms - she makes no secret about this.
I'm not sure how the vendors of Alphawave got a hold of my email addresss, nevertheless, my 1 week trial ended on Monday, 08/06/12 and these are my observations:-
(Note: As I'm in the southern hemisphere, my time in the trial room was limited to the first two hours of the open i.e. 9.30 to about 11.30am EST)
1. I have to agree with the bulk of Mervyn's comments. I observed during the one week trial, which was hosted by Jonathan, that he took an average of perhaps two/three trades during the first two hours. Jonathan was however was very clear in specifying the entry and stop levels. I can't say the same for Mdm. Alla though, who hosted the trial room on Monday, 08/06. Regrettably, I did not record Jonathan's calls.
2. From observing Jonathan, it was obvious that he used the the retracement tool to both isolate an entry and to assess if "Danger Levels 1 & 2" were achievable before calling out the trade. As 8tick range bars are used, their entry is based on the high/low of the entry bar, +/- 1 tick for stop placement.
3. These are the numbers that I recorded from a 13 tick chart for CL:
STOP - 90.81 + 1
ENTRY - 90.68
Danger Lev 1 - 90.60
Danger Lev 2 - 90.55
Danger Lev 3 - 90.46
Danger Lev 4 - 90.37
It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out the fib ratios that they use I have some snapshots but I'm not allowed to post them yet.
4. Monday 08/06/12 - room was hosted by Alla and these are the trades (for the first two hours) that I recorded:-
NQ - Short 3 @ 2685.50 and stopped out 3 @ 2689 (-10.5 ticks)
TF - Short 3 @ 793.1 - DLev 1 hit @ 792.90 (+2 ticks)
- DLev 2 hit @ 792.50 (+ 6 ticks)
- 3rd contract stopped out @ 794.50 (-14 ticks)
Note: Short @ 793.1 was later moved higher to 793.4 by the moderator!
TF - Long @ 792.9 - DLev 1 hit @ 793.50 (+ 6 ticks)
- DLev 2 hit @ 794.30 (+ 14 ticks)
- 3rd contract was runner held past 11.30am EST.
6E - Long @ 1.2392 - DL 1 hit @ 1.2401 (+ 9 ticks)
- DL 2 hit @ 1.2049 (+ 17 ticks)
- 3rd contract stopped out @ 1.2390 (- 2 ticks)
As is to be expected, there was quite a bit of selling by the moderator, but one particular comment irritated me i.e. that she'd spent 40,000 hours developing the Alphawave system! Assuming a 16 hour day, that equates to 6.8 years! Even my grandkids would find that hard to swallow!
Would I spend $179/month for a subscription to her guest room? NO! What about $3,300 to learn her Holy Grail system? NEVER!
Best,
quin2k
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My 1 week trial ended. I agree with Mervyn and Quin2k's comments. I have found pros and cons. After having emailed with a few members I believe that the method is legitimate and profitable! When Alla lost her voice and her other moderator Jonathan was calling trades. He was very clear and profitable trading oil. He provides commentary in the education chat room and the members seem to be doing very well there. You can not gain access to that room without spending 3k for the education. You must also pay a monthly fee to remain in that room. She does not call trades on CL. People in the room varied from 65-85 participants.
Now about the main room Alla calls trades in: I agree she is not always clear about her entries. Friday she took 2 losers on the NQ back to back. Targets were 4 ticks to target one and both stopped out with 12 tick losses! She says she called another trade but she never did! She just said we are in a trade and it hit target one! No way anyone got that trade. When anyone in the room questions her on anything, whether it is a call or a fill she gets right in their face and tries to make the person feel silly. Red Flag! She has conditioned people not to ask questions or you will be intimated.
She does not trade her own account. She does not trade in sim! Red Flag. She only uses her custom fib tool to draw lines and targets, so you never know if she would have filled at her entry or exit.
In the method there are aggressive entries and conservative entries. She calls everything, but mostly aggressive entries because she says if she just called the aggressive entries there would not be enough entries to keep a chat room going. Problem is that her risk reward is insane! The aggressive trades have anywhere from a 2 tick to 5 tick target, but her average stop was 10-18 ticks! One trade she called during the week on 6E had a 4 tick target and stop was 18 ticks! Two members I emailed with said they never use her stops or targets!Bottom line is her stops are almost always 3x- 4x the first target. In my opinion you will never make money with that money management strategy. One loss will wipe out 4 winners. You would have to be right almost every trade. Red Flag!
After paying 3k she will try to get you to spend more money to take an advanced course to get the best trades. I have no idea how much that is. Red Flag.
The results on the website are very misleading. Red Flag. It counts the winners (pretty sure you wouldn't have filled all) and losers. No net profit. No mention that the stops are 3 times the winners. She says take all off at first target if you are trading 1-2 contracts, go for target two with the third. On 3 or more it is possible to hit target one and still lose because she usually keeps her stop far away when she trails it.
Bottom line the room is just a place to promote buying the education. Can you make money in the room? Hmm maybe, but not much. Would I pay 179/mo? No way. I must say I can't tolerate her self promoting arrogant commentary in the room. She talks to the room participants as if they are a kinder garden class. Very child like. She asks for questions but won't disclose anything and tries to embarrass the member who asked the question. Most times that I saw the question was a very valid one. Red Flag!
The way the marketing is very shady. You will get emails almost every day, not just from Alpha Wave , but from other vendors they sell your email address to. Red Flag.
Would I spend 3k for the course? No way I have spent that before. I never will again, especially based on all the red flags. Surprisingly enough I might spend half that, to learn it on CL but since she has already raised the price many times that will never happen.
If you have a great method why wouldn't you trade it live? Would you really prefer spending 3-6 hours a day running a room and educating when you could be trading? I just don't believe that she enjoys educating that much! Seriously?
This is getting long, but if you have any questions reply here and I will answer them.
Good luck,
Longboat
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Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
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Also, if you ever make the mistake to "Like" her on Facebook, you get tons of outdated useless half-ass charts to litter your FB for miles. I sent her a note to stop the garbage trail, yet it kept commimg. I reported her as Spam.
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I totally agree with LongBoat. Alla risk to reward ratio is out of line. One loser will take out the profits from two or three winners. She never shows total number of profits made from those trades she posted as winners against losers. Guess that was the reason why the result page is no longer on her site. One thing I notice though, if I am not mistaken. If a trade is a winner it pretty much work in your favor soon after the trade is entered. But when the stop is reached half way of what is given, say 15 ticks stop and you are now down 8 ticks from entry, that pretty much is going to be a loser.
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Thanks for the effort you put in to your review. Very comprehensive and I'm sure it will be appreciated by all who read this thread.
Sounds like things have changed since I was in the room. When I was there she called out both aggresive and conservative entries and announced them as such, but I don't remember any calls will any stops more than 2x target. I don't remember any belittling of room participants.
The advanced course was $499 when offered to me in May. I didn't take it so I don't know what was covered. It was mentioned for quite a while before it was offered and I just assumed it was waiting for price to be at one of her fib levels from a higher time frame chart before taking the trade on the lower time frame chart. When announced, the advanced course was spread out over 4 days so there must have been more to it that what I assumed.
Totally agree with your last comment about running a room instead of just trading. When I started with her I got the impression that she was trading this method herself and remember her interrupting one of our sessions to enter a trade. As things went on, and the marketing became more and more prominent, my impression changed and being the cynic that I am, I wonder if she trades anymore at all. Collecting fees from 65 people at $179/month is not bad.
As with all methods that require discretion, some will do well with this method while others won't.
Stymie
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Thank you. Longboat. I'm glad that I wasn't alone in thinking that Alla is dodgy and arrogant!
In view of the large stops and small targets, I suspect that her system is designed for a trader to hop on board at the start of the "A" wave of a correction (hence the name; alphawave) , in the hope that the trade eventuates into a ride that would take the trader to the end of the "C" wave of the correction, or better still if it turns out into a W3 if the suspected correction turns out to be impulsive.
quin2k
The following 5 users say Thank You to quin2k for this post:
I could not disagree with you more regarding Alla and her trading methodology. I paid to learn her trading discipline and have never come across anything more effective. The piles of junk software and trailing indicators do nothing to help out the serious trader. You are doing everyone a disservice here by dissuading them from trying out the best of the best.
Ninety fine percent of her trade entry calls are clear and well defined. Occasionally, there is a slip up but that is inadvertent and not meant to deceive or mislead. Yes, her first targets are modest and her stops can be large but I cannot tell you the number of 40 and 50 tick winners that she calls that would have wiggled you out if you employed a tighter trailing stop. August is without a doubt the toughest month of the year to trade and she does an amazing job of keeping you out of chop.
Jonathan, her crude oil trader is a prodigy. He alone is more then worth the price of admission. He doesn’t call his trades out loud and I think he should but his trading entries are clearly posted because he uses Ninja’s chart trader. Last week he called a 90 tick winner and this week a 75 tick winner on crude oil. Gimme a break here, this man is an amazing trader. To call the trading room a marketing tool is nothing sort of ridiculous.
One more thing, the trade example you are citing on the 6E, where she had a 4 tick target and an 18 tick stop never occurred. If she is trading an 8 range, your entry will be one tick above the target candle with your stop one tick below; that’s a max of 10 ticks. How you arrived at 18 ticks on an 8 range entry candle is beyond me.
Alla herself is a no nonsense balls to the wall lady. If you ask a stupid question she raps your knuckles! Is she tough sometimes, yup! But is she brilliant always, yup also! She doesn’t mollycoddle you and that’s what some traders went. But that’s not what they need. They need a call to action. Not the, “poor baby” approach but the, “get real and get smart” call to start studying approach.
During her training sessions she BEGS her students for homework. Just more work for her but exemplifies her dedication. She wants to turn out successful traders. She answers questions via e-mail and is totally accessible by phone which she oftentimes picks up herself. No secretary to wall her off from her students. No need, because of her track record.
I still have my Seven Summits Trading Software (Pro Version). It’s a pile of junk. Forget the $1,499.00 I paid for it. In a choppy market it will put you in the poor house just like every other “break out” software system. But Alla’s trading method protects you big time. The numbers speak for themselves; 80 people in the trading room, 50 people in the educational room.
I encourage everyone to check out her trading room. It’s a free ride. Her methodology isn’t for everyone because it’s difficult. No buy on greed dot, sell on red dot here. Just no nonsense trading methods that if mastered will take you to the next level.
The point I was trying to make here is that if you have the ego of an egg shell, go buy some software. Alla isn’t out to give you psychotherapy or hold your hand she is out to make you money. And she is amazingly ethical.
Yea I know, I am not talking about hand holding or ego. I am talking about her treating a member with no respect. A member that was correct when she was in fact wrong! Here is what happened last week. She called a long on 6E out with a 4 tick target. The trade was offered at the target but it was never bid there. Alla counted it as a win anyway. I was in the trade and never got a fill to close. Another member in the room posted that he was still in the trade. Alla jumped all over him! She ripped him for not knowing the rules and that he is not paying attention and that we are already out of that trade. If you want to be a successful trader you need to follow her...It went on to be a loser of 12 ticks by the way. The member was correct! He did not deserve to be belittled in the room when in fact Alla doesn't understand bid and ask or that there can be orders ahead of you. Just because it hits her little fib tool target line doesn't mean you get filled. If she was at least trading a sim account she would have known that, but maybe that is the reason she doesn't sim so she can count those fantasy fills as winners.
I know you spent $3,000 for the course and I am glad you are making money with it. I don't approve of her arrogant commentary when people make comments that is all. I would prefer to see Jonathan trade CL.
I don't know if she sent you here to defend her method since Big Mike rightfully deleted her ridiculous post, but with only 10 posts in this forum your recommendation of her method doesn't carry the clout of others that have been posting in here for years.
Good luck. My review of the method stands -with pros and cons.
Oh and Quin2k I believe she is just trying to catch the third Elliott Wave sequence most of the time on the 8 or 13 range charts, nothing magical.
The following 6 users say Thank You to longboat for this post:
I respect your opinion. But I also think you should respect mine as being genuine. I cannot defend Alla’s approach to the traders in the room 100% of the time. Sometimes she is impulsive but I chalk it up to her passion; I think that she is a driven lady.
Her methodology is not flawless and you do take losses, sometimes big ones. But the number of huge winners dwarfs the losers. She does tell you to take profit on over ½ of your contracts at target one. This makes money management quite successful.
I understand the problem you encountered with your fill. I am sure problems like that arise with every trading method from time to time. But I understand why she would count it as a win. Just because you did not get filled doesn’t mean lots of other traders didn’t. For a tally in a trading room a target that is hit is a valid win.
You blasted her really hard. Much of the criticism was directed against her personally. I strongly disagree with your opinion. When I called her on the phone to answer questions of mine, she was kind and considerate and generous with her time. She cleared up many areas of ambiguity for me. Her critique of the huge amount of homework I sent her was enormously helpful; her teaching sessions clear and understandable.
I do not think that it is in the best interest of traders in this forum to think that her trading method is anything less then stellar. I think traders should take the one week, free trial and make up their own minds. I believe that most will continue on with her.
Thanks for voicing your opinions. I hope it works out for you. Why don't you reply back in a few months and let us know if you are still using the method. I do think it has merit, just not for 3K?
NetPicks is hawking that 7 Summits and spamming everyone on the internet right now. Thanks for posting your experience with that. Boy do they over sell and over promise!
Everyone, I promised two weeks ago that I would make a full impartial report about Alla and alphawavetrading.com after dishing out $3000 to join their room and here is the truth behind all the hype, please read thoroughly and in its entire form before rushing to the tracks, I will explain the pros and cons of the system, without giving her system away, cos that would be unethical, sorry it is long, but it is complete:
1. I calculated her risk/reward ratio, at best case scenario, using average of 1 to 3 targets, across 8 and 13 range bars that she trades off of, to be 3/2. This is done using:
1.1 – I assumed the best case scenario, when her “C” candle is full, without wick or tail and gives you maximum amount of profit per trade
1.2 – I assumed that you would get a fill, on both your entry and your exit without slippage of any kind.
1.3 – I assumed that you would play a 3 contract per trade, and that 50% of your winners make it to first target and the other 50% make it to your third target.
1.4 I assumed that your trades are done on both 8 and 13 range bars as it is done in her room and success rate is equally spread across board.
2. Using the risk/reward ratio above, gives you a system that breaks even at 66% success rate, and for this system to have any kind of meaningful result, you need at least 75% success rate.
3. For the success rate above to work, the instruments calculated in the equation, should be equally weighted. If instruments of different denomination are used, they have to be multiplied by their weight across board.
4. At best case scenario, her first target for 8 range is 6 ticks whilst its stop is 10, and on a 13 range bar, best case scenario, first target is 11 ticks and stop 15 ticks, this would make the system a scalping system, and as any other scalping systems, every once in a while you would get runners, that would make it to much larger targets, I noticed that it was said in previous post in this thread that they were runners in examples, that would make it true for ANY scalping system you’d use, once in a few trades.
5. She never trades the system live with her own admission.
6. The trades are called sometimes when not enough time given to enter the trade.
7. The performance report on the website IS TOTALLY WRONG, she reported only 1 losing trade for the month of July and 2 losing trades for the month of June, I was in her room for trial for the last week of July, and within that week alone, there were more losing trades that reported. Also, she reported only 1 losing trade for the months of August as to this date, August 17th, whilst we had more than 1 losing trade in the first two weeks of August, and in the first 3 days of the third week in August, they were 5 losers alone!.
8. Hence the performance ratio on her website is not accurate; you can NEVER calculate your success rate using that table.
9. She encourages everyone to take only two trades a day, I agree with that for most parts, but that statement is only true, if your risk/reward ratio is very small, on scalping systems like hers, you need to take many trades to average out your overhaul success, otherwise for every losing trade, it would wipe out all your hard work, 75% success rate on scalping systems are achieved using at least 10 to 15 trades a day, that’s what scalping is.
10. Her system is based on bars with no gaps, when back testing, the set ups that you might pick as valid trades, may actually be no trades at all, hence they were in a gap that you don’t see.
11. Hence she does not trade live herself, or even on a sim and only puts lines on charts, she would count in all the trades when price is gone through the line, again, hence the bars that she displays have no gaps, you would not see the slippage on the charts, but would have them on your DOM’s, the results on charts maybe appealing to a novice trader, but unfortunately for the thin markets that she trades, like TF and CL, there are always large gaps in price, which will dent your success rate, but not visible on the charts, hence no gap bars are used.
12. I noticed a couple of good reviews on bigmike, and those who made them, have been members of bigmike just recently, past the inception of alphawavetrader.com!
13. She has now decided to let one of her students carry on teaching in the room, his name is Danny and I spoke to him on occasions, a very pleasant person who offered to help out to bunch of guys who did not get the system, because her teaching method is terrible, while I have all the respect for Danny and his good character, but according to his own admission, he has never traded the system live and now he has been employed by alphawavetrader.com to carry out teaching a system that is unapproved for even himself on a live account.
14. There is another guy, Jonathan, who is also an ex student, who carries out the room management sometimes, and the strange thing was that he carried out teaching material that according to Alla herself was wrong and they had to reconcile it.
15. Just one person claims to be trading live in the room, somewhat successfully, and while he uses Alla’s method, but he uses his own filtering to make it work, my guess is that he could make any system work if he used his filtering anyways, that is true for ALL scalping system, and a very best of luck to him, Roger A, who has posted in this very thread as well.
16. I found her to lack understanding of the market and how it flows, the reason for her stop outs are because she does not really realize where the real support/resistance are at play and she assumes that a pivot on a range bar is a support or resistance, when I throw numbers at her and started calculating, her response was to shrug it off and move on.
17. She would make anyone asking a question feel stupid for asking it, her method is incredibly a simple one, but because of lack of teaching techniques, it makes it hard for students to grasp it, while it can be successfully taught, in 15 minutes flat. My guess is that is done on purpose, to make it more eligible to charge in excess of $3000 just to fill up time.
18. I noticed that most, almost all students are novices in the game (not everyone though) and like so many systems on offer, they would go through a transition time to sink in the losses that will occur in their live account in time, when talking to a few, I gathered that this is the last straw for them in their trading career, and of course the mind wants to be hopeful for the best, I wish each and every one of these individuals, very best of luck.
19. When the market is slow, she encourages participants to ask questions, but when presented with questions that might show a light on weakness of the system, she makes the person feel cheap and moves on to another subject.
20. When market is touched, she counts those as valid successful trades even if they are so quick that you won’t get a fill even on a decent sim.
21. When a trade is stopped out, she says “We are out of XYZ” she never uses the word stop out, this is to confuse people who are in their one week trial and do not know what is going on and are getting their bearings.
22. When the market is slow, she keeps on putting pictures of a great looking house, claiming it is hers and she designed it, and sometimes pictures of herself, but she has never shown anyone any pictures of her inside that house! Always an empty show home that makes one think she’d be delusional about something.
23. She treats the participants as if they are kindergarten kids, does not pay attention to details of the questions sometimes, and sometimes does not understand what the participant’s question or point is to begin with.
24. I noticed there are many factious names in the room, names that do not participate in discussion at hand, and have never said a word while in the education room after paying $3300, hard to swallow.
25. Once in the room, she claimed that in the past two days, we had 2 failures out of 7 trades and was very happy about it, but I mentioned that the two losers were TF and CL, and that most winners were NQ at half price of the other two instruments, so what would mess up the win rate greatly when your losers are twice as expensive as your winners, and in fact it would be a loss at her risk/reward ratio, I also confirmed this with someone who took the trades on his sim, but again I guess the cheery note was said for the benefit of the newbies on week trial.
And a few more points to go through, but to sum it all up, the risk/reward ratio is way too high, the performance report on the site is fabricated, she does not trade it live otherwise the results of her own trading would be very different that depicted.
Best of luck to all of you in your search for holy grail.
The following 21 users say Thank You to kignkenny for this post:
KignKenny thanks for the excellent and very through review. I agree completely with what you found. In one week there were many losers that I saw. I never checked the record but it was about 30-40% losers my week. New traders need to be aware of some of the vendor tricks.
Is it true that members get kick backs for telling others to buy the system?
Sorry you are out the $3k+
Yea all the time wasted showing her pictures of her house and vacations is ridiculous!
Oh and vendors that protest too much= Red Flag!
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
The following user says Thank You to longboat for this post:
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." And what a lovely act indeed.
Yes it is true that members get kick backs for referrals.
Also, I heard a rumor going on that I was kicked out of the room, she has said that she kicked out a middle eastern man who does not know how to treat ladies!!! (I am British Persian, not sure if that was directed towards me or not) Just to clarify, I sent her an email telling her that I was duped into buying her material with false advertizing (the performance report) on her site, and I would like a refund. She sent me an email saying she does not deserve this cos she has worked hard at it and will give me a refund hence she does not have time to waste.
I did get a refund back from her and I assume my log in credential have been revoked. If you call that being kicked out, then let it be.
If anyone wants to see our email exchange, I am quite happy to forward.
The following 6 users say Thank You to kignkenny for this post:
....and found all the same information, and much better, on the internet for free....don't spend your money on things you can get for free, even if you have to work just a tad bit harder to find that (better) information
I'm so glad that you've had a refund of your hard-earned money. This is excellent news indeed! I'm sure that the subtle "pressure" from the reviews have played no small part in the vendor's decision.
I've been a members of Big Mikes since 2009, (thank you Mike, your forum is the bomb!) and I've been a member of Alpha Wave Traders since March of this year. I'm not paid by AWT nor am I affiliated with them, other than being a paying student. Nobody sent me here to post. I'm doing this because I believe in the Alpha Wave Trader system. AWT is not for everybody even though it is simple enough that anybody could learn it. It's been mentioned here that if you just stayed in the trading room long enough that you could / would figure it out. That's almost true. You will get the jist of AWT, as I did, but you will not learn the entry rules! They are simple but some of them are very subtle and they are what makes AWT work so well. Those come with the course.
After three trading rooms, most of which was wasted money, losing money trading in those rooms (That really was wasted money), I said I would never spend any more money on trading rooms or expensive indicators again. I put together several winning indicator based trading systems (Thank you again Big Mike's) that worked for awhile, until the market changed or a new version of Ninja Trader came out that killed my indicators and ended those systems. After watching AWT as stated above for a couple of weeks, I joined AWT simply because I was tired of relying indicators to tell me what was going on. I've never been good at reading the market or trading patterns as they were developing. In hind sight, I'm the best trader in the world but as the bars are being printed on the charts, not so much. I wanted to change that and I could see that the AWT system would give me a leg up on understanding price action. It has. I've not regretted spending the money or the extra money to be in the continuing education room. Jonathan's CL trades pay for that. The Advanced Trading Course ($499) was a no brainier. One trade could make that back for you easily.
Alla is very European (and Russian?) in her teaching methods and demeanor but I've had friends from eastern block countries that escaped to the U.S. and they spoke and acted the same way. Sometimes there is a language problem. The words and phrases I use are not normal to her and vise a versa. Sometimes, I've seen her get frustrated with questions in the Trading Room when people are trying to get her AWT secrets. She has asked the students in the Education class after dealing with an obnoxious person or two what she should have done and they have always been supportive of her. Personally I think that she should have removed a couple of more people that were being very disruptive, so everybody else could get back to trading. For the most part, I think we are talking about cultural differences and a harder edged teach philosophy that is old school. I believe that Alla has a good heart and she truly wants the best possible outcome for her students. She does spend extra time with those students that put forth the effort to learn the system, but if you slack off, you get no sympathy from her.
Alla states up front that the hardest way to trade her system is with 1 contract. Buyer beware. Anybody that's been in her trading room has seen the pop-up's that give her rules about trading. She repeats them verbally many times a day. If the newby chooses to ignore those rules, or if they are just learning but trading real money, well they are going to learn a valuable lesson, just like you and I have in our pasts. If you take the aggressive trades that she calls in the trading room, there are going to be stop outs. In fact, we all know there will always be some stop outs. The AWT course teaches you the rules that separate the the high percentage trades from the riskier trades and if you only take those high percentage trades, your profits are much better. Those are the trade I shoot for. I still have loosing trades but most of them are due to the fact that I'm not concentrating (multi tasking), I let my emotions get the better of me or I didn't apply the AWT rules correctly. 90% of my loses are my fault.
A few of the other mentioned problems:
Small profit targets: Use longer term charts for bigger targets. AWT works on all charts.
Big stops: All of the systems I've seen for sale lately have huge stops, 20-30 tics, far bigger than Alla's if you compare. Her smaller stops were a positive point for me when I bought the system.
Kick backs: Every room I've been in has kick backs for bringing in new students.
Alla doesn't trade live: How many rooms does that really happen in? Lots of Sim trading going on in other rooms, usually with one market at a time, but with as many people asking questions of her while she is trying to watch the charts, read the text questions and point out trades, it would be impossible.
Win / Loss trade count: I know there is a question about this. I've seen trades called that I know I couldn't have entered in time. I don't know if her count is accurate or not. I don't keep track. I don't take a lot of trades she calls either. I'm looking for low risk trades and most of the trades in the room are "aggressive", higher risk trades. Now that her percentages have been questioned, I'm thinking she will have someone double checking for her because that's how she is. All I really know is, when I was thinking about joining and I was keeping track of trades and Profits, she had a lot more winners than losers. The bottom line profits were very impressive.
Students that teach: Every room I've been in have student teachers or student helpers. AWT students that can teach AWT, prove that her system works. If it didn't, they wouldn't be teaching would they?
Not all of the trades are called in the trading room: Most of the trades ARE called in the trading room for the three markets Alla is watching. The exceptions are the Advanced trades and other trades that the students themselves see and call in the Education room which can be in any market, not just the markets Alla is watching. The CL trades are also shown on charts in the Education room.
Talking about off trading subjects: I believe that Alla thinks of us as part of her family. She shares a lot of "stuff" when the markets are slow. Personally, quick pictures or subjects are ok but then lets get back to trading. I do not listen to most the chatter in the trading room or the EDU room during trading hours but I keep the AWT charts up on the monitor, listen for called trades in either room and scan the typed texts from the other students from time to time for trade setups that are coming up or ones I might have missed. If I listen to the chatter, I get distracted and that kills my trading concentration. That's just me. I'm one of those "Ghost Members" that doesn't talk much. If I can make a quick comment that will help another student, I will but sorry, I'm not there for talking, I'm there for learning and trading and I never miss an education class (I have a lot of bad habits to break).
The Alpha Wave Trading system is like every other system that is available, the system and it's teacher has to fit your personality. If it doesn't, it will never work for you. There are short cuts that you can take to limit your risk, but they will also limit your income. I like a bigger target and because of the lower risk trades I take, I have a tendency to push the first target out past the standard AWT 1st profit target a little. I run my stop a little closer too, because I have to. For me, most of the time, it works but when my account is where I want it to be, things will change and I will stick to the rules I have found out the hard way, take ALL of the low risk trades regardless and you will be big winners in the long run.
For those of you that think this is a scam, I've been watching and trading the commodities markets since 1976 when I started drawing my charts on 20 X 30 in. grid paper and figuring my fib numbers with my engineering slide rule. In 36 years Alpha Wave Traders is the best thing I've found that is understandable and more importantly, Easily Trade-able. Wished I had this back then.
The following 7 users say Thank You to grinder for this post:
I'm glad the system is working for you but at a cost of over $3000 for the beginners education it is quite steep.
I do take issue with your comments about other rooms though. I have been in many trading rooms as well and the size of the stops will vary with the instrument traded but I have yet to see many that use stops of 20-30 ticks for anything other than CL. Most of the rooms I've been in do not use student trainers or assistants or whatever you want to call them. If the moderator is sick or away then the room does not operate for that day - this has happened in the vast majority of rooms that I have been in.
My biggest problem with Alla is that she is not trading live or SIM and as a result when she enters a trade she will be in that trade until either 1) her profit targets are hit, or 2) her stop is hit. I witnessed a trade several months ago on NQ that quickly went against Alla but rather than identify that the trade went against her and advise everyone to get out she stayed in it until her stop was hit. It was a loser of almost $300. There are times when you can identify that a trade will not go your way and it is just good money management to get out of the trade as quickly as possible rather than wait for your stop to get hit. You don’t realize that Alla is doing this without being in the room and observing several trades. For anyone that is trading live based on her calls you need to ensure that you have your own methods for exiting the trade when you deem appropriate.
I also have an issue with Alla selling my email address and I too am now inundated with emails from other vendors selling their systems or promoting their webinars.
"Beginners Course?" I would call it the complete foundation course. Most internet guru's invite you into their rooms to trade for a lot less then the final price but then there are always those added extras. Lots of added extras for lots of extra money. Lately, most of the rooms I've checked out seem to be hitting the $2000-$2500 mark to just get started but it use to be $1500 or so. $3500 seems to be the new bench mark. School of Trade: $4195, Pacific Trading Academy wanted $3500 just a few months ago but if I signed right then it was $3000. Advanced Trading Workshop: They were $2500 three years ago, for the beginner class, now, I really can't tell by just looking at their website but the whole shebang is $8999 ...and the list goes one. Nobody needs anything else from AlphaWave Traders after the first course. The principles taught in the first class are all you need to be a successful trader in any market. In fact Alla teaches you how to figure out how to make your trading even better and gives you the tools and training to figure out your own advanced system and she encourages you to do so and will help you with it too. Paying her the $500 is only a short cut to desert after the main course.
Alpha Wave traders charged me $3000 but I believe they raised the price to $3299. That is not out side of reason. It might be more than ShadowTraders at $999 with the 4 day intensive training extra at $500 . But Buyer beware. Newby's could pay ShadowTraders $1500 for their course (a very good over all education and trading system in my opinion) or they could spend $50, become an Elite member of Big Mike's and learn the same thing here from PerryG. Anybody shopping for a new car, a new house or a new trading system needs to be an educated shopper. Newby's and Oldster's like myself should read the Forums, learn a little about the markets and then make the best decision they can about a trading course that will fit their personality (or even if they need a canned trading system).
The three Rooms that I have Observed lately other than AlphaWave Traders have had stops from 15 to 30 tics on the Euro, Emini S&P, Oil, Natural Gas, NQ and YM. We must be visiting different rooms. As far as setting a stop and then letting the it stay until the market takes it out or moves in a positive direction to the profit target is a valid trading technique. It might not be your technique but it still is a good one. In fact, it's the trading technique for two of the three Observed Rooms. By leaving the stop sitting and not changing it, no emotions can influence your trade decisions and personally in the long run, I believe you will have fewer whipsaws that eats up your trading account. What Alla did with that trade was not wrong. Just not your trading style. A good reason for you to not join AlphaWave Trades but maybe a Great reason for others to join and learn her system. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've jumped ship only to have the market take off in the direction of the trade and left me sitting in it's dust. Alla's stops can be as small as 7 tics or as much as 15 tics. But the discussion really isn't about stops, it's about capitol preservation isn't it. If you take her recommendation on the first closer profit target with 60% of your contracts, and then if you get stopped out, it will have been a break even trade and most of the time the market will hit that first, smaller profit target (that everybody here was bitching about) before it does stop you out. That's Capitol Preservation.
Everybody hates spam. Me too but any increase I've had lately isn't really noticeable amongst the inundation I receive from all other visited rooms over the last 10 years. Thank goodness for spam filters.
Good Luck on your trading journey. I know I've found my path. I'll keep looking for the new Holy Grail because that's the kind of guy I am but until then, I've found my path with AlphaWave Traders and I'm sticking to it.
The following 3 users say Thank You to grinder for this post:
Advanced Trading Workshop? School of Trade? Neither of these has a very good reputation so if you're comparing to them, anyone is going to look good. As you said you really need to do your due diligence before you spend the money. I also don't understand why you would be in these hucksters rooms if you are so satisfied with Alla and her methods. Sorry but your comment about continually searching for the Holy Grail doesn't hold water with me.
A stop loss of 15-30 tics on ES - never, ever, in any trading room have I seen a stop loss of this magnitude on ES. Quite frankly I haven't even seen stops this wide on NQ, or YM. I agree on TF, NG and CL, but the others - never, and again, I've been in lots of rooms, as have the people that I trade with. Perhaps I`ve done a better job of vetting trade rooms than you have.
As for the stops that Alla sets in her room and how she manages her trades I am commenting here so that others who are in her room checking her out know how she is trading. I am conveying information that people need to know. Of course we've all been in trades, stopped out only to have the trade change direction and go against us - this is part of trading. However, there are very clearly times when you know you are on the wrong side of the trade and it only makes sense to minimize your losses. A $300 loss on NQ is significant at $5 per tick. Of course you could've ridden the 2008 flash crash all the way down and held onto your losing trade until it turned but very few of us have that kind of capital to put at risk. If that's how you trade that's fine but again, people need to know what they`re getting themselves into. As for Alla, who knows if that`s how she`s managing her own trades since she doesn`t trade live or SIM in the room - we will never know for sure and it`s easy to ride a trade all the way down when you have NO skin in the game.
I completely agree with Flipper. Those stops and negative risk reward will blow up your account. There is no way you are profitable with those long term. You compare Alla to those other two rooms? You may as well pick the worst rooms you can, of course she may look better than them. You are way off base. How can you follow somebody that doesn't trade Live or Sim. I think your posts are very misleading to newer traders. Sorry
The following 4 users say Thank You to longboat for this post:
I just read something about my fees forwarded to me by my student ( by the way many of my students can post anything here, because it requires to be a member and have prior posts, but there are more from my studnets to come), unlike anyone else who sells or teaches anything I had seen in Day Trading:
1. I designed my own strategies, by spending fortune and years. And as per my students, should be charging much much more, because I TEACH EVERYTHING. I dont hide anything. Once you learn my method: YOU CAN TRADE ANYTHING. YOU NEED NO LICENSE FEES. YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF PURE PRICE WITH YOU ALWAYS AND FOREVER.
2. I run two trading rooms : Education and Trading simultaneously. I spell out that I take both: Aggressive and Conservative Trades to Trial and regular Trading Room members in the Trading Room. I teach my students to be Ultra Conservative and therefore to take very few trades notjust per day, but per week. If I will take so few trades: I will be accused of not taking all trades I give: only those who are in the course understand that. Trading room members hear when I state the difference between two. I would not have a Trading Room, if I will take only my Conservative Trades. I take max 5-7 per week. And always spell it out to all and never ever hide this.
3. I dont know anyone in the industry who runs two rooms and trades their personal account. I speak with my students and describe reasons why I had taken a trade. WHile also concentrading on Trading Room. Imagine adding personal trading to this? I did trade my account, when I ran Trading Room only. It worked, but only until I opened Education Trading Room. Which I was told by many: no human can do..I do it every day: I run two rooms, group teaching, private mentoring and webinars. I do it all myself: until very recently when due to loss of my voice, overextending myself with teaching, I asked Danny and Jonathan, graduates of my course to help teaching. They both are dearly loved by my students and will continue working side by side with me.
I pride myself on what I had done and have hundreds of testimonies from my graduates and currrent students to prove that. I had never been happier, since I became a full time trader. Staring at the screens and having no interactions did not fill me up..I was empty and bored.
Teaching my method and seeing the difference I make in lives of those who take Trading Seriously, had been the biggest surprise ever. If I would ever had choice between Trading versus Teaching: I would take Teaching in a heart beat. I am a girl, and need my love tank full: Trading aint filling it..TEACHING IS.
In 9 months since inception of the site: I have hundreds of friends all over the world. I have letters from wives and families: not just students. I have invitations from New Zealand, Kuala Lampur, Singapore, Switzerland....I am on my way to meet my students in Singapore: I am living a dream and forever grateful to God for such Magic..as I honestly never expected such..I could not do it without him giving me vision to read Pure Price and giving me such unbelievable success. I had been invited to teach Hedge Funds: they told me: I am nuts to share my strategies with the world..
What matters to me in life is one thing only:
THOSE WHO KNOW ME: KNOW THAT I AM A REAL DEAL AND TEACH QUALITY TRADING METHODS I DESIGNED ( and continue designing) AND I CARE ABOUT MY STUDENTS DEEPLY.
I dont put up with BS..I respond accordingly. First time I read the posts: I was upset..Seeing outrage from my students: made it all worth it....
I never aspired to please all....Noone Is.
The following user says Thank You to Laguna for this post:
The rooms that I listed are rooms that I have visited in the distant past. They are also rooms that seem to have a presence on the web so that newby's would see them and investigate them and it was easy to check on the amount of money they require for their courses. That's why I listed them. I did not make any recommendations about them one way or another, other than ShadowTraders and AlphaWave Traders of which I have personal knowledge. I am not in any of those trading rooms other than Alphawave Traders. I'm not a rumor monger about other rooms, how good they are or are not UNLESS I've been a member of that room and privy to their trading philosophy and TRADING RULES and you do not know that UNLESS YOU ARE A FULL STUDENT!
Perhaps you have done a better job of vetting other rooms Flipper (and longboat), but you don't really know because you are taking what I said about other rooms out of context (the context was only being their cost) and implying that I think those other rooms are good rooms when the truth is I do not know if they are or not. Then to make matters worse, you make a sarcastic remark about the 2008 flask crash and what you think my trading philosophy is including speculation on my account size. A $300 stop out in any market is not a nice thing, doesn't matter if it's NQ or Crude. I can't comment on that particular trade directly because I don't trade the NQ very often, I don't remember that trade being called and I might not have even been present in the room.
Personally, I think you and everybody else are looking at this all wrong. Can Al Brooks trade his system live with real money or in SIM and make money? Can Roger Felton trade his system live with real money or in SIM and make money? Of course they can! But ya know what? Just because they can doesn't mean that I can or anybody else can.
I DON'T CARE IF THEY MAKE MONEY, I ONLY CARE IF I CAN TRADE THEIR SYSTEM AND MAKE MONEY!
I think it would be great if Alla traded her own system. Good marketing for her and good proof for you. Trouble is, I don't make money if she trades her system, it only matters that I make money when I trade her system and follow her rules. And I do both.
As far as the Holy Grail is concerned: That's the perfect system that makes lots of money with no stop outs and like I said, I'm still looking for the perfect trading system. After my last post, I did want to add one thing. In all of the trading setups that I've used over the years, when I've gone back to look at them, they all would have been much more profitable if I would have filtered them with AlphaWave Traders rules and setups. I've not looked at the market the same way in the last 5 months as I did in the previous 30 plus years. Anything new in trading that peaks my interest will always be compared to Alla's trade signals, they are that good.
I'm sure that there will be lots more said in this thread but like the "Ghost" trader that I am in Alla's EDU room, I'm back to work, learning and trading. I think I have made myself pretty clear, even when my words are twisted and it's suggested they mean something that wasn't said. So, good luck and have fun but I've said my piece.
Grinder, my dear, this is day trading we are talking about, small stops, and if you are talking about 10 min charts and more, then you have a thing coming, after reading your comments, it seems to me that you are still SIM trading this, however, I will be over the moon for you to get somewhere after you start trading live.
In any case, one thing that I forgot to mention in my earlier post:
Everyone, I promised two weeks ago that I would make a full impartial report about Alla and alphawavetrading.com after dishing out $3000 to join their room and here is the truth behind all the hype, please read thoroughly and in its entire form before …
and is crucial to understand, is that NQ and TF are very thin markets, TF operates at average of 30 contracts BO per price level when it is traded during session open hours, the actual number of contracts traded is usually less than what is being offered/bid.
Now imagine that 50 students of AWT, put only 3 LIVE contracts each on a trade = 150 contracts, hence Alla's entry is very precise ( you can not jump the trade even one tick early hence it will screw up with the method, it is a break out strategy, so your entry is very precise, outside of a range) now, 150 contracts will push the price up/down for 3 to 4 ticks on TF, on an 8 range bar system that she trades, depending on your DOM set up, you either will not get a fill, or you have a 3 to 4 tick slippage, while your ORIGINAL target is 4 to 6 ticks!! If you DO get a fill with slippage, your target will be 0 to 3 ticks, while your stop is 13 to 14 ticks, depending on your slippage above, you will have the same problem exiting your trade unless of course you do not get a fill at all.
This is true for all breakout strategies though. If you trade a counter trend strategy, the opposite side pressure is strong enough to make a reasonable expectation of getting a fill, which is called contract replenishment, breakout strategies lack this hence the contracts of the opposite side are not replenished and cause the price to breakout of range.
Introducing 150 contracts to a market that averages 30 contracts per BO on a breakout is madness, pure and simple!!!
To give you an example, a friend of mine who very successfully trades GC, day in day out using his own system for a few years, can achieve this at 5 contracts per trade, when he increased the contracts to 15, he noticed than on average his winners are filled at 5 contracts each trade while of course his losers were filled at full 15 contracts, this put a serious dent in his pocket, so even though he has a very profitable strategy, but he can only operate this strategy on 5 contracts per trade.
At the time that I was in Alla's room, I knew of two people who traded live, Liz and Roger, Liz operated at break even and Roger took selected trades, using his own filtering and is somewhat successful. But I fear that Roger will suffer once more and more people join the live trading, it will take only two more people to add 6 contracts before the price runs away from him causing slippage or no fills.
You can test the above using a decent SIM (not the panzy ninjatrader sim) you would need a server side SIM, rather than a client side SIM which ninjatrader is. Server side SIM's give you a fill (and you need to find the ones that give PARTIAL fills too and I do not want to promote anyone, but there are brokers out there that do just that)
Server side SIM's will give you a fill, using their formula, when around 70% of the contracts have been traded, this formula takes into account the numbers of contracts being pulled out while price is BO. Then put 150 contracts on your SIM and watch the result (remember, you need a SIM that can give you partial fills to mimic live)
So apart from the fact that the risk/reward ratio of this strategy is too high for a day trading system to have any meaningful result, adding the problem above will ensure failure.
Once more, the problem above is less evident on more liquid instruments and counter trend strategies.
Hope it helps.
The following 3 users say Thank You to kignkenny for this post:
King Kenny, I agree with you that a few trading in the thinly traded markets, e.g. cl, tf, ng, nq, gc etc., in a live account will not be filled. I use market limit orders and today I had two trades not filled until it came back to fill me. I did 8 trades on cl today with one loser and 7 winners with 31 ticks net profit per contract less commissions. As far as I could ascertain I was the only one in Alla's education room that was trading the cl. I did ask if anyone else was trading it and no one answered. Therefore, on 2 of my 8 trades I did not even get a partial fill with my limit orders until cl came back to my limit order and I was filled.
So you are correct, if others were trading live cash accounts with me in cl then I would not have been filled on all my orders and they would also not have complete fills and or no fills.
Only ES (which I also trade) and the bonds along with the Forex can absorb very many traders using this system at one time.
The following 4 users say Thank You to rogera for this post:
First: I've not given you permission to take such liberties in how you address me. "...My Dear," is straight out an insult. Don't.
Second: Once again you are assuming something that is not true and we all know that it makes an "ass" out of a person as the saying goes. I do trade live all of the time. I was trading live when I joined Alphawave Traders until I decided I was making too many mistakes and needed to stop and understand the rules better, until they became second nature and I could take a trade without thinking about them. After the course, I started trading live full time again. For the record I'm much more profitable then I've ever been. If something happens and I'm not profitable, the markets changes, news, I'm not feeling it, old baggage pops up that kills my trading decisions, I quit for the day or week, just like the last two weeks, right now in this sucky market.
Third: For the second time you've assumed something that was incorrect (review the paragraph above for references about the out come of this and the label that is attached to a person because of it). I've been trading the TF/Russel live off and on since 2009 and it's one of my favorite markets. In fact I was one of the people leading the parade to get Alla to call the trades in the Russel. I'm very aware of what thin markets are and how they act. I know how to place my orders so they are filled at my prices, and if they are not: There's always another trade coming along in a couple of minutes anyway. That's part of trading. Even if Alla had 50 traders that traded the Russell at the same time, 150 contracts at the same time would probably never happen. Even with the same system, every trader is a discretionary trader and they would all have to agree to take the trade... Not going to happen.
Fourth: Alphawave Traders is not a breakout system. If you were in her room as long as you say you were, then you heard her say this. It's something that she states over and over. Sometimes the trades happen to be breakout type of trades but that is coincidental, not by design and the best Alphawave trades are NOT breakout trades. That kind of thinking is like this: If a Ferrari Sportscar has four wheels and a VW bug has four wheels, then it must be a Sportscar also. Now that doesn't seem right.
Fifth: I talked to several people in Alla's room, other than than the two you listed, and they traded live. The three that I had in-depth conversations with, plus myself, makes four people that traded live, to your two, and that makes you wrong by 150%, again. Just because you or somebody else asks a room full of people, "Do you trade live", that doesn't mean you going to get truthful answers or even answers at all. Of the three people I talked to, #1 traded live but their success rate was unknown. #2 was pretty successful and very happy, they claimed. The third person traded live before joining Alla's room and was generally successfully but when I talked to him, his account was growing very fast and he was talking about the possibility of retiring early and trading full time.
Sixth: Finally we agree on something. Sim trading is not live trading, ever. It's always different for a lot of reason, most of which are psychological but machine generated fills, are not real market fills. The NinjaTrader platform does not have instant fills nor does it fill all contracts submitted at the same time, unless you override the default parameters and tell it to. It is as close to actual live trading as one can get I suppose. Still, real money trading is real money and until a person does it live, they will never know if they can be a trader or not. Interestingly enough, the first time I went from SIM on Ninjatrader to a real money account, I got better fills in most markets then I did when trading SIM. ...but give me a break about the BO, etc. If a trader wants to get into any market, it's really easy: "Buy the Ask" or "Sell the Bid". You give up one tic of profit on a trade. Big deal, you are going for those long targets right? One tic is nothing if you get the trade and get the profit. If you get stopped out all of the time, or one tic really does make a difference, your system sucks. Go back to shopping for a new one.
Kenny, I see that you are a software developer for traders ( "...after developing software for traders for many years..."
I really appreciate the effort you have made here. I find your site rich with info and very well maintained.
For my part, after developing software for traders for many years, finally decided to turn pro a while ago, and having gone through …
). I agree Alla is not perfect and she would be the first to admit it too but Instead of trying to prove you're right about Alla and her system, why don't you share some of that software with these traders and if for legal reasons or other reasons you can't do that, develop some better software for the traders on Bigmike's. Help everybody become better traders, help them make some money. They would probably appreciate it a lot more than an endless thread that goes in circles.
The following user says Thank You to grinder for this post:
Maybe the students were busy trading and didn't want to talk to you?
I just can't believe that you and others think that a couple of dozen orders from Alla's students would possibly keep you from getting filled in a market like CL during normal market activity. It could't possibly be the fact that the market is really thin right now because of the vacation days taken by the heavy hitters just before school starts? It couldn't have been that price jumped over your price from HFT's and then came back to fill you? It did that to me on two different orders in two different markets on two different days a couple of weeks ago. News? Slow Data? Slow Ping rates on the internet? Slow cache on the computer? You told me in one of our private conversations that you always took CL trades before market open and did rather well with them. Stick with what works for you. But you might be right...
I'll bet in three weeks, the markets will be back to their regular old selves, trading will be good, fills will be good and then what...?
OK, finally I got some time to reply to some misleading quotes here:
I am so sorry that you were insulted for being called "my dear", I hereby announce that you are not my dear, please forgive me.
Thank you so much for calling me an "ass", you are a great man. However, we are not talking about your trading here, we are talking about AWT. I am so glad that you are making money using a system that so clearly love. Keep up the good work.
Like is said in my post, we are assuming that traders enter trades at the same time, if 50 of them or whatever the number maybe. Introducing large number of contracts to a thin market will not get you filled. BTW, the post was not for you in particular, it was for everyone, so if you understand thin market or not is not the subject, also, you don't get another trade in every couple of minutes on AWT system, you can refer to their performance sheet that tells you the number of trades undertaken per month per instrument. Another point I was trying to make, was that not enough students of AWT have gone live yet to trade together to see the results, and what I said was I feared that Roger's trading will suffer once more and more people go live. I suggested that you put larger orders on a sim that can give you partial fills so people can see for themselves how many contracts they can push through thin markets, it is a good exercise for everyone to make sure they understand. Please read my sentences and absorb them fully instead of calling me an "ass".
AWT is not a counter trend system, it is a trend trading system and stop orders are placed rather than limit orders, the point was that hence it is not counter trend, the opposite side pressure is not strong enough to absorb large number of contracts at around same level. This happens on breakouts and stop orders (that AWT uses). Again you are misleading here.
I can not vouch for you or others that you are mentioning here, simply because I do not know you or them, I can only vouch for people that I have spoken to (and have made themselves known to me) and one is here in this tread to confirm. You saying that I can not get the true answer from a room full of people, for the same reason, we may not get a truthful picture from you either.
You are again misleading new traders here, Buy the Ask and Sell the Bid, will not give you only a one tick less profit at all times, what I said was that large number of orders will push the market up/down and create a gap, so buy the ask and sell the bid will be gaped up/down for more than one tick hence the spread gets much wider than one tick on thin markets (and when a lot of orders are placed together, or when a bunch of people place market orders at about the same time) it happens all day long on thin markets. Again, we are not talking about my system here as you mentioned above, I do go for large targets on reversals, but in AWT when on 8 range target is 4 to 6 ticks, and on 13 range, first target is 9 to 11 ticks, then 1 to 3 ticks of spread really really matters(it will be 10% to 75% of your first target's profit, gone out the window). Again, I am not on the spot light here, this thread is for AWT, not sure why you are making it personal.
Again, I am not trying to prove I am right, please do not twist my words. What I wrote was my take on the system, it is very accurate and logical. I have given the facts and figures, after developing software for Bonds, FX, Derivates, Exotics, market and credit risk for almost 20 years, perhaps I've learnt a thing or two. Again, it was not an endless thread that was going around here as you mentioned, until you made it back and forth with other participants, I only posted one article about my findings, and continued in the second article what I missed in the first one.
I appreciate it that you do not twist my words in the future and mislead the newbies and refrain from calling me names.
The following 3 users say Thank You to kignkenny for this post:
Hope I'm not too late to the party but I must comment - I signed up for the free trial in April or so and then went to the monthly subscription. Watched that for a couple months and then signed up for the course. Like grinder, I was on the bandwagon to get Alla to trade TF. I've been trading it off for years.
The course IS pricey, but they all are. The strategy IS simple, most of them are not. Alla does sometimes say a trade was a winner when it didn't seem that way to me. And she does get a little frustrated being asked the same questions countless times.
But, I would do it again. I don't rely solely on AWT strategies, but when I see a setup, it usually works.
My trading overall is better than before I took the course because I learned a lot about price action and support and resistance.
And, for the last couple months I've rarely said a word in either the private education room or the public guest room because I'm busy trading, not reading what somebody else is saying. If you're skeptical, just take the one week free trial - Alla makes some great calls every day.
The following 3 users say Thank You to cv2low for this post:
I agree with Grinder and cv2low concerning what Alla teaches. Additionally I will restate once again that what Alla has taught me has made me a better trader. I do use the method she teaches.
As of now I am unable to state whether too many learning this method will have an impact on getting filled on the thinly traded markets (e.g. TF, GC, NG, CL etc.). I certainly hope this is not the case.
Additionally, I do know the High Frequency Traders (HFTs) and traders that trade these markets can be filled on large orders; however, they break them down if they want a hugh order (ex. 100 or more contracts). Therefore, fills may not be a problem. TIME WILL TELL!
For those who took the educational course or had the pleasure of Jonathon's CL , he is no longer participating as a moderator or trainer. He is doing so well he has gone on to greener pastures.
The following user says Thank You to trendfriendpa for this post:
It has been many weeks since my last post in this thread. Since that time, many people have added comments. I wanted to post a follow-up comment.
I have been day-trading since 2004, constantly tweaking my strategy to make it more profitable. Since 2004 I think I have taken every free trading room week, trial offer that is out there. I have not found a single effective software system, from Nexgen to Netpick (SST), to Paintbar Factory to Decision Bar. None of them work. The only thing that varies is the price.
When I think back it makes sense. If someone is selling software, it just can’t work. If it did it would not be on sale at any price. They would be auto-trading it and making millions. They are all “breakout” systems that very in sensitivity and specificity.
There are only 2 enterprises out there that I have found that sell you trading methodology and NOT software. One is Top Dog and the other is Alpha Wave. I have taken both courses. I have taken Top Dog’s advanced courses. Their combined information have made me a very profitable trader.
Market structure is a critical component of a trade set-up and Alla and Alpha Wave teach amazing, superlative market structure methodology. But Alla is a purist and that is a weakness of hers. You do need to respect support/resistance levels and be careful on entering a long trade in an overbought market etc. That is where Top Dogs’s methodology comes into play. He uses momentum, stochastic etc. Combine the 2 and you get one kick-ass trading system.
I think members here are asking the wrong question; is Alpha Wave the perfect stand alone system? What they should be asking - is the Alpha Wave trading methodology a critical component of a successful trade. To that question, the answer is a resounding yes and if it is yes, the price for such wisdom (3K) is well worth it.
If you sensor the trades she calls in her trading room with 2 simple indicators, a stochastic and a momentum indicator, watch the 50 day-SMA and make sure you there is symmetry with the higher time frame 13 range chart you will hit home run after home run.
I understand from someone who has a website for trading (understand not allowed to mention) and is/has been a successful trader (consultant for hedge funds as well as been trading since the age of 17 - now in his 30's). Taught many to trade successfully. The trial charge is so only those really interested join the trial. After that it is their choice to sign up for longer or not.
Terrific post! I Trade her system with 2 simple add on indicators. This morning I was 3/3 on the 6E. I started trading at 6:30 AM EDT and was done by 9:30 AM. One of my trades was past the 5 target set-up. She has made me a very profitable trader. I recommend her trading methodology to everyone in this forum; and I am NOT a salesman.
I was in the trading last week (wk of 9/10/12) when Alla made an entry call - TF (emini Russell) went to the first line, retraced, went to the second line retraced, (this was before 11:30 a.m.). When the room closed at 12:30 she said for those who hadn't exited to be aware of the three additional targets and trade safely. TF continued very slowly proceeding up to, and a little beyond, the 5th target. By the end of the trade TF had made a 200 tick move.
Yes, I have been in the room when a entry call was made, TF moved up 5 ticks and then retraced and took out the stop. I am one who does say in the chat - TF was stopped out - and Alla does verbally acknowledge this statement. Each culture has a way of dealing with negative statements. Maybe why she says TF closed.
This is my experience in the room for one month.
The following user says Thank You to trendfriendpa for this post:
As it was explained to me:
It's easy to create a false name.
It's easy to create a different email.
It's not that hard to change or hide your IP address if you can search the internet.
It's hard to fake a credit card or paypal account for that small payment.
They check those payments very carefully for repeats.
trendfriendpa - What do you think of this vendor or do you know the person running the site? I saw you open a separate thread on it too, so I am guessing you really want us to have a look at this site. Never heard of it myself.
The following user says Thank You to BeachTrader for this post:
I signed up for a week trial, and have been in a lot of rooms. 09-19 She callled at least 3 trades and all hit target2. She did more but that is all I took. NQ, TF and 6E She trades only using fibs and price action patterns. The fibs are marked using her own names. She looks at 60 min, daily charts to help her with determining her long/short directions, and what she calls decisions areas/zones. Her trading charts are 8R and 13R charts. For the first day she was good, clear on entries, targets and stops. I did not trade heavy since it was my first day. She handled the room really good, and I thought the trades were called out ahead of time. I know first impressions are not the best, so I will reserve my full opinion until my trial is done.
The following user says Thank You to tradermark2009 for this post:
I met Scott about 8 years ago. He is one trader who really wanted people to learn to trade and not lose money. I took at least 4 of his classes offered through marketgauge.com. The owners invited him to present the classes at the urging of other traders whom he had helped.
He is clear in his teachings, very knowledgeable about the markets, technical guy and a good person.
Alla makes it very clear that she is not licensed and only licensed individuals are permitted to post their track record in $. She does post the number of successful trades as well as losers on the website.
Maybe one of the AWT traders will be willing to post their financial track record since they starting using the AWT method.
There was an individual in the room the other day by the name of Dean who is said to be a reviewer of trading rooms. He commented he had not had a losing trade in the 18 weeks he has been in the room. He has not taken the course, only is in the trading room where trades are called. If Dean reads this trend, maybe he will be willing to post his track record.
I know it's not the best way to decide if a trading room is decent but I have taken the plunge for the trial based primarily on Alla's presentation style in the free webinars on the web. She says all the right cues which make me believe she might have something to offer.
Her delivery style is crystal clear. Now I am curious how well her method does under fire.
He said that he didn't have a losing week, he never said not a losing TRADE...there are plenty of losing trades called in the room - several yesterday.
probably close?
I have some snapshots but I'm not allowed to post them yet.
