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Shadowtraders system. Scam or real? (www.shadowtraders.com)


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Shadowtraders system. Scam or real? (www.shadowtraders.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
Marc V
Delray beach, FL USA
 
 
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Guys, I have been to 3 free webinars from this website called shadowtraders.com Personally I see red flags all over. Yet I am intrigued by the way they use their charts. They claim their oblong S/R lines are their proprietary fractal lines you get with their course. Yep, that's red flag #1. However on other forums I have met 2 guys that claim they are happy with it.(might be shills) Tomorrow and I think every tuesday night at 8pm they give a free webinar. I watched 3 so far. I wrote to them 3 times asking questions. They trade only Forex futures and the problem for me is they either try to scalp 2-4 ticks or a trend trade to them is 8-10 ticks. They use 1 minute charts. Thats scary! Has anyone bought their course and charts before. It appears on their site like it would take 8 weeks to complete as they claim.

They claim they want you to keep reducing your tick targets till you can get an 85% win ratio. Nothing else is acceptable they say. I would love to have a system that wins 85% but not if I lose it all back on the other 15% losers! Anyway, they claim to be releasing 2 new indicators for their platform/charts in tomorrows webinar and they are going to offer to have live traders of their system call and talk to you and give an honest (?) opinion. Id like to get a few of us in there and see if we dont get the same guy calling us. My opinion is that for $999 I want to see some kind of proof which they never seem to provide. If anyone has heard of them and may be interested, tune in tomorrow and let me know your opinion. Remember......I am very, very leary of this and all vendors who sell a product either on the Internet and especially at a trade show. But if you can learn to use a vendors charts and make them your own, sometimes it could be worth it. You tell me......

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  #3 (permalink)
 aediaz1 
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Even though they have phone-number and firm address, it seems like a marketing gimmick to me. All the typical non-sense; make $$ every day, bla bla.

And what serious person(s) above 20 years old with success in the market would call themselves "shadowtraders" ?

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  #4 (permalink)
 vvhg 
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aediaz1 View Post
And what serious person(s) above 20 years old with success in the market would call themselves "shadowtraders" ?


I would, as I would try to stay in the shadows. Which is exactly what the vast majority of successful traders are doing, I believe.

vvhg

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  #5 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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Are you referring to Barbara Cohen's ShadowTraders?

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  #6 (permalink)
 vvhg 
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tigertrader View Post
Are you referring to Barbara Cohen's ShadowTraders?

Seems to be the one.

vvhg

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  #7 (permalink)
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aediaz1 View Post
Even though they have phone-number and firm address, it seems like a marketing gimmick to me. All the typical non-sense; make $$ every day, bla bla.

And what serious person(s) above 20 years old with success in the market would call themselves "shadowtraders" ?

Well....

I worked with an Aussie company once - they were in the financial area, can't remember what any more as it was so long ago and I was just consulting..

Anyway - the name they chose for themselves was "Plan B"

I believe their competitor "Plan A" cornered the market....

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  #8 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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vvhg View Post
Seems to be the one.

vvhg


In that case; don't waste your time. I met her 2 or 3 times, when I still resided in Chicago. Two of my buddies, who were both OEX traders at the CBOE were associated with her when she first started out. They were going to be her "expert traders"/ instructors. Barbara is not a trader. I don't believe she has ever had any of her own money in the market. She is a relatively intelligent woman, but also quite a bit loony. Her expertise lies in marketing, and this is what her company is all about. She is also a practitioner of Scientology, and she got her business off the ground by targeting and selling to other Scientology wackos. Please believe me when I tell you she is clueless in reference to trading.

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  #9 (permalink)
 jta3 
Copenhagen, Denmark
 
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I have seen some of the webinar.
As I see it the fractals line don't quit fit with this indicator FractalsSRLines.

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but most line fit.
Trendline looks like T3 indicator, and is a nice tool for trend.

some of the things there have been said is Fibonacci don't work and it's only there tools there works.
I se one big issue, you can't test software for just one week or so. There are many software solution there give this opportunities.

And i want to se live trading on webinar. I have not seen enough of live trading and not seen one StopLoss on chart.
I have my doubt and need to se live trading before i can make any decision .

 
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  #10 (permalink)
 vvhg 
Northern Germany
 
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tigertrader View Post
In that case; don't waste your time.

Don't worry, I'm not looking for any room or anyone/anything else to follow. I believe that there is more value in some posts on futures.io (formerly BMT) and some books I enjoy reading....

vvhg

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  #11 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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jta3 View Post
I have seen some of the webinar.
As I see it the fractals line don't quit fit with this indicator FractalsSRLines.

View Download Details - Big Mike's Trading Forum

but most line fit.
Trendline looks like T3 indicator, and is a nice tool for trend.

some of the things there have been said is Fibonacci don't work and it's only there tools there works.
I se one big issue, you can't test software for just one week or so. There are many software solution there give this opportunities.

And i want to se live trading on webinar. I have not seen enough of live trading and not seen one StopLoss on chart.
I have my doubt and need to se live trading before i can make any decision .

Do what you want, but you would be far better off, putting that that $1000 in a trading account and a flipping a bull/bear coin. Her company is not quite a scam, but the line between scam and legit is very thin. Regardless, she will not teach you how to trade correctly. Her biggest fault: she knows nothing about either money management or trade management.

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  #12 (permalink)
 rdtw 
Des Moines Iowa United States
 
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tigertrader View Post
In that case; don't waste your time. I met her 2 or 3 times, when I still resided in Chicago. Two of my buddies, who were both OEX traders at the CBOE were associated with her when she first started out. They were going to be her "expert traders"/ instructors. Barbara is not a trader. I don't believe she has ever had any of her own money in the market. She is a relatively intelligent woman, but also quite a bit loony. Her expertise lies in marketing, and this is what her company is all about. She is also a practitioner of Scientology, and she got her business off the ground by targeting and selling to other Scientology wackos. Please believe me when I tell you she is clueless in reference to trading.

If I may:

1.) How long ago was this?

2.) What about her walk the dog trade?

3.) Thank you

 
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  #13 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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rdtw View Post
If I may:

1.) How long ago was this?

2.) What about her walk the dog trade?

3.) Thank you

1) Approximately 4 years ago.

2) I'm sure it's right up there with her "around the world" trade !

3) Your welcome!

Men nearly always follow the tracks made by others and proceed in their affairs by imitation, even though they cannot entirely keep to the tracks of others or emulate the prowess of their models. So a prudent man should always follow in the footsteps of great men and imitate those who have been outstanding.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)

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  #14 (permalink)
 jodistrict 
san diego
 
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I was looking into it but couldn't even consider it because they require an Internet bandwidth of 5 Megs which I can't get where I am living in Mexico. From what was explained in their talks, you need the bandwidth because the system depends on the slopes of lines and so the data needs to be accurate because a slight error in slope can give a different result. I have been getting good results with the indicators here and don't need to pay $900 and have the additional complexity and aggravation of depending on another complicated software system that may crash or have technical problems. Too much emphasis is placed on accurate indicators, when psychology, trading skills, and money management are just as or even more important.

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  #15 (permalink)
Marc V
Delray beach, FL USA
 
 
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tigertrader View Post
1) Approximately 4 years ago.

2) I'm sure it's right up there with her "around the world" trade !

3) Your welcome!

Men nearly always follow the tracks made by others and proceed in their affairs by imitation, even though they cannot entirely keep to the tracks of others or emulate the prowess of their models. So a prudent man should always follow in the footsteps of great men and imitate those who have been outstanding.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)

Tiger,

I agree. I'd feel much better if they gave a free trial of some kind. May I ask when you met her or whomever posted they met Barbara? Maybe she improved if it was years ago. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt, no? But yes, her marketing is brilliant. Sort of feels like you know you are putting your head into an alligators mouth, but you are tempted to do it anyway! Thats scary.

Anyway, I am not familiar with the T3 indicator if thats what those fractals are. Im amazed I finally found a common indicator I never saw before after all this time. The only other co. I heard use the name of T3 is another vendor who charges 15k for his secret Fibonacci system(No name needed lol) that claims to put up fib lines that come from many different time frames. Why use a T3 over traditional type trend lines?

BTW.....I,m sorry to say fellas I was really sick and missed the free webinar. I cannot even comment. Maybe I will pass.

"Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."

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  #16 (permalink)
 ruths 
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Thanks for the post.

 
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  #17 (permalink)
 jta3 
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Latest webinar

They talk about new indicator with hit rate of 98%. But nothing showing about this indicator.!
talk is cheap. Proof of this talk might change my view.

https://www.shadowtraders.com/Shadowtraders02072012Webinar.zip

 
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  #18 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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jta3 View Post
Latest webinar

They talk about new indicator with hit rate of 98%. But nothing showing about this indicator.!
talk is cheap. Proof of this talk might change my view.

https://www.shadowtraders.com/Shadowtraders02072012Webinar.zip

if you don't have goto meeting codec then you need to install it in order to see the video https://www4.gotomeeting.com/codec?Portal=www.gotomeeting.com

 
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  #19 (permalink)
MoneyHor
Las Vegas
 
 
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I say go with your gut. If you think something isn't right then trust that instinct.

Spend $1000 of your time to teach yourself how to trade and work out some sort of trading system that works for your personality. Maybe scalping 4 ticks at a time isn't for you.

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  #20 (permalink)
 bluemele 
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Unless she changed it, it is almost IDENTICAL to PERRY G's method here on the forum. Perry is a nice person who has spent a lot of time showing others, but besides the 'magic' fractals, then his method is almost verbatim. I don't know if Perry was a follower of theirs or not, but it is so close I would think so...

I don't think they ever trade live (pretty sure at least). I was signed up for a month or so with a friend and he still trades the system I believe.

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  #21 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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its has been more than 1 year now but all you can find from search are reviews preface with, it looks... it sounds... in another word there is no first hand experience of any of their student. There is one report from ripoff site, a sale guy saying they didn't pay his wage but no mention about the method itself.

 
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  #22 (permalink)
 heywally 
Pismo Beach CA
 
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jodistrict View Post
I was looking into it but couldn't even consider it because they require an Internet bandwidth of 5 Megs which I can't get where I am living in Mexico. From what was explained in their talks, you need the bandwidth because the system depends on the slopes of lines and so the data needs to be accurate because a slight error in slope can give a different result. I have been getting good results with the indicators here and don't need to pay $900 and have the additional complexity and aggravation of depending on another complicated software system that may crash or have technical problems. Too much emphasis is placed on accurate indicators, when psychology, trading skills, and money management are just as or even more important.

Yea .... I have no experience with this website/company but to have an 'Internet bandwidth' requirement like that is absurd to me and also assigns a level of precision of movement in the markets that does not exist, IMO. This bandwidth requirement is probably just a gimmick by them to make their system seem more precise than other stuff.

Anyone can cobble together a website and 'system' like this and it isn't a scam or fraudulent in any way unless they are promising wild returns to you.

For day trading an index, consider using this simple system and it's free: see how price behaves at 'significant' short term support or resistance pricing areas and go with the short term trend as price either moves through these areas or bounces back into the range. No charge.

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  #23 (permalink)
 bluemele 
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cory View Post
its has been more than 1 year now but all you can find from search are reviews preface with, it looks... it sounds... in another word there is no first hand experience of any of their student. There is one report from ripoff site, a sale guy saying they didn't pay his wage but no mention about the method itself.

Me and three other friends 'subscribed' so I was on the fringe (as for many systems that my friends joined in on). Two paid while the other two (me and another friend) just piggybacked. I would say that my experiences with them were as a 'student', but honestly I never took it serious due to such large stops and small take profits...

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  #24 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I took shadowtraders course and several 4 day seminars.
I saw Barbara Cohen trade, and it was near 100 % . I never saw another trader trade live in front of others and every trade worked out. She is the only one I ever saw trading in front of others like this and with this perfection. She was on sim but I followed her with my live account. She has a broker licence and she is not allowed to show her life trading, but she can trade. On seminars she is allowed to show "education", so on seminars she is allowed to trade in front of others. She takes 3 ticks with a countertrend strategy on CL. I am doing the same, since october 2011 and since then I make money.
I am sorry to hear that the is scientologist, I did not know that. Are you sure? This is a shock for me.

Honestly, I bought many packages, but this one was the only one that helped me with my own trading.
I do not get money from them to write that in forums. I am just thankful for their help, as I tried so much.
I am also a member of fulcrumtraders. I am independent, just a private trader, a bit nervous and hesitant, scared money, etc.. My "gaptrades" on CL that I learned from Barbara make me money. I trade part time.
Today I made 3 trades on CL, each trade 3 ticks, 1 lot. I could have made more, but I want my 97% winning rate. So you can see that I am a real person! No magic!

Except of their "fractals" they use indicators that you find in Ninjatrader. Moving averages, MACD, BuySellVolume (Barbara coded it for Ninja). Pivots very important for trading CL. They give us every day pivots for that day. It comes with the package and it helps a lot, they do it manually for their clients.
So of course they do not let you try their software. They do not want to let you know as you get their knowledge once, you can use it and you will not have to buy the course. You can watch all their videos and then never buy the course...

I have a checklist for my CL trades that Barbara gave me, and it works for months now.
Barrier (like a pivot or a fractal), long tail/wick on 1 min chart, MACD not going through centerline, V in the linreg 4, angle in the EMA 13, EMA 13 angle 45 degrees or less (comes with the software), number of ticks to EMA 13, be careful with SMA200, and several "fundamentals" to watch. Sounds simple, right? A kind of momentum-based bouncetrade from barriers. That is their countertrend strategy. Others play trend following strategy by using several indicators and moving averages. The core of their work is their "fractals" that means that they plot the tape on the chart and draw trendlines out of that. So you can see support and resistance.

I learned from Barbara many of the games that are played in the markets and of course the wants her clients to pay her seminar to learn that. No trial.

I was in so many chatrooms and there are not many traders that show you really their trading. They tell you that they scale in and out, but in fact you never know if they are in the trade or not. Many of them tell you hindsight that they were in the trade... (but only the winners). Barbara proved to me that she IS in the trade, as she was able to show it. You see her sim DOM, and sim because she says that a room moderator is distracted by multitasking. But you can follow. And yes, they go for very few ticks, but that works! I can tell you. I do not believe that any small lot trader makes money catching big trends. But for scalping really you can trade with this "system" and 1000 Dollar account and make money, then increase account size and trade more contracts.
I think that "experienced traders" tell so many lies to unexperienced traders about "trend trading". The unexperienced trader goes from chatroom to chatroom to find that magical head trader that helps him to turn a very small account into a large account by finding those mysterious big trends that they are able to catch. Then the unexperienced trader buys much software, indicators, books etc. to find that holy grail about catching the trend.

Again, shadowtraders do not pay me to write this here. But I found out that my "holy grail" is to take 3 ticks with each trade. That is the only way I make money, and I trade with a very small account that I doubeled already since october, and that is realistic for me! Shadowtraders for me is one of the companies that don`t tell you all those lies about get rich quickly, but they show you something that is so simple and you do not need that big account. You just follow some very simple and common rules. So of course they do not give you a trial of their software as this is their knowledge.

Yes, they tell you something about getting rich quickly if you double your contract size very often, and they sound very optimistic. Sometimes their optimism helped me a lot. I was very tired from hearing all the time "YOU NEED A 100 000 dollar account" and "IT WILL TAKE YOU YEARS" etc. Big guru words.

It took me years to find a simple system that I trade with a 1000 dollar account, yes, that is true, and I make my 50 to 100 dollars a day, and in holidays like chrismas of course I also had losses because of no liquidity. That is real trading live. I do not make money when markets do not move, that is true as well, and very often they do not move...

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  #25 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I should add that they teach you a scalping system, that is it.
You have to pull the trigger on your own which is the biggest problem for most people.
They teach, but they do not have a daily chatroom where they show trades every day.

What are their "fractals"? Just the tape, plotted on the chart. This is why you need the bandwith and unfiltered data.

An experienced trader does not need their "newest 98% indicator". They just do that for their clients who love arrows up and down for trade entries. The experienced client trades with the first version of their software, I guess.

I use what I learned from them, and I make some money from scalping, that is it. I consider it as a good education. They do not pay me for this statement.

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  #26 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
Experience: Intermediate
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And: I changed from TradeStation to Ninjatrader and my favorite instrument is now the CL.

 
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  #27 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
San Diego
 
Experience: Beginner
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Interesting Trader2. How much are the stop losses? And I am not sure what you mean when you say the fractals are the tape plotted on the chart. Do the fractals mark the high volume areas or what on the tape?

Thanks!

 
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 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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trader2 View Post
I took shadowtraders course and several 4 day seminars.
I saw Barbara Cohen trade, and it was near 100 % . I never saw another trader trade live in front of others and every trade worked out. She is the only one I ever saw trading in front of others like this and with this perfection. She was on sim but I followed her with my live account. She has a broker licence and she is not allowed to show her life trading, but she can trade. On seminars she is allowed to show "education", so on seminars she is allowed to trade in front of others. She takes 3 ticks with a countertrend strategy on CL. I am doing the same, since october 2011 and since then I make money.
I am sorry to hear that the is scientologist, I did not know that. Are you sure? This is a shock for me.

Honestly, I bought many packages, but this one was the only one that helped me with my own trading.
I do not get money from them to write that in forums. I am just thankful for their help, as I tried so much.
I am also a member of fulcrumtraders. I am independent, just a private trader, a bit nervous and hesitant, scared money, etc.. My "gaptrades" on CL that I learned from Barbara make me money. I trade part time.
Today I made 3 trades on CL, each trade 3 ticks, 1 lot. I could have made more, but I want my 97% winning rate. So you can see that I am a real person! No magic!

Except of their "fractals" they use indicators that you find in Ninjatrader. Moving averages, MACD, BuySellVolume (Barbara coded it for Ninja). Pivots very important for trading CL. They give us every day pivots for that day. It comes with the package and it helps a lot, they do it manually for their clients.
So of course they do not let you try their software. They do not want to let you know as you get their knowledge once, you can use it and you will not have to buy the course. You can watch all their videos and then never buy the course...

I have a checklist for my CL trades that Barbara gave me, and it works for months now.
Barrier (like a pivot or a fractal), long tail/wick on 1 min chart, MACD not going through centerline, V in the linreg 4, angle in the EMA 13, EMA 13 angle 45 degrees or less (comes with the software), number of ticks to EMA 13, be careful with SMA200, and several "fundamentals" to watch. Sounds simple, right? A kind of momentum-based bouncetrade from barriers. That is their countertrend strategy. Others play trend following strategy by using several indicators and moving averages. The core of their work is their "fractals" that means that they plot the tape on the chart and draw trendlines out of that. So you can see support and resistance.

I learned from Barbara many of the games that are played in the markets and of course the wants her clients to pay her seminar to learn that. No trial.

I was in so many chatrooms and there are not many traders that show you really their trading. They tell you that they scale in and out, but in fact you never know if they are in the trade or not. Many of them tell you hindsight that they were in the trade... (but only the winners). Barbara proved to me that she IS in the trade, as she was able to show it. You see her sim DOM, and sim because she says that a room moderator is distracted by multitasking. But you can follow. And yes, they go for very few ticks, but that works! I can tell you. I do not believe that any small lot trader makes money catching big trends. But for scalping really you can trade with this "system" and 1000 Dollar account and make money, then increase account size and trade more contracts.
I think that "experienced traders" tell so many lies to unexperienced traders about "trend trading". The unexperienced trader goes from chatroom to chatroom to find that magical head trader that helps him to turn a very small account into a large account by finding those mysterious big trends that they are able to catch. Then the unexperienced trader buys much software, indicators, books etc. to find that holy grail about catching the trend.

Again, shadowtraders do not pay me to write this here. But I found out that my "holy grail" is to take 3 ticks with each trade. That is the only way I make money, and I trade with a very small account that I doubeled already since october, and that is realistic for me! Shadowtraders for me is one of the companies that don`t tell you all those lies about get rich quickly, but they show you something that is so simple and you do not need that big account. You just follow some very simple and common rules. So of course they do not give you a trial of their software as this is their knowledge.

Yes, they tell you something about getting rich quickly if you double your contract size very often, and they sound very optimistic. Sometimes their optimism helped me a lot. I was very tired from hearing all the time "YOU NEED A 100 000 dollar account" and "IT WILL TAKE YOU YEARS" etc. Big guru words.

It took me years to find a simple system that I trade with a 1000 dollar account, yes, that is true, and I make my 50 to 100 dollars a day, and in holidays like chrismas of course I also had losses because of no liquidity. That is real trading live. I do not make money when markets do not move, that is true as well, and very often they do not move...


The woman has never supported herself from trading and never will, because: a) she's not a trader, and b) her strategy is not scalable

she earns her living( not from trading) but by, selling a methodology that is geared toward the retail trader who seeks comfort, not profitability

if her methodology was so profitable, she would be trading it herself, not selling it,

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 bluemele 
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trader2 View Post
She has a broker licence and she is not allowed to show her life trading, but she can trade.



Thank you for the comments, but I am curious where you heard this regulation?

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 traderwerks   is a Vendor
 
 
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Thank you for the comments, but I am curious where you heard this regulation?

She has a Series 3 and Shadowtraders are a registered CTA.

I still haven't heard of a rule where you can sim trade and cannot trade a real account.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
 
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 jta3 
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There are webinar tonight if there are question.
I have not make any decision and watch on sideline.

https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/681282090

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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@BeachTrader

They do not have a fixed amount for stoploss. They get out of the trade when the setup is "broken".
They have a rule that says if they are short and the low of the candle is 2 ticks above resistance they consider resistance as broken (vice versa for support). They want traders to have the discipline to get out.
So this is really discretionaire.

And yes, the areas with bigger volume are plotted on the chart. They count every single trade.
You can also use cumulative delta to watch that, but her trendlines look a bit different to what cumulative delta shows to you. Go to their webinar on tuesday evening and they might show you a chart with their fractals.

 
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 trader2 
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@tigertrader

Barbara says that she likes to make some extramoney, and why not?
Why do great musicians like Segiu Celibidache and others give mastercourses to young conductors?
Aren`t they not well enough paid or their own concerts? Don`t they have enough concerts?
Same thing for famous sports people.

And: I do not care if she trades or not.
I trade. That is important for me. And I use what she teaches.

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 trader2 
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@traderwerks

She does only simtrading for some hours when she does her 4 day seminar.
It runs under "education", and I am not sure if she is allowed to show sim trades, but she does not care.
As she had so many winning trades in a row I guess that she wanted to show what works for her. She did not want to show "bad trades" just for education as Melanie does sometimes.
Her trading partner Melanie shows sim trades and she shows good and bad trades, for education. She always tells people. "Do not follow me, I might show you trades that do not work as I want to show you the most common mistakes." That is her education style. Traders should not follow another trader, they should learn the method and trade alone with the rules shadowtraders gives you.

 
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 trader2 
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Same question for everyone who teaches something.
Why does a violin teacher teaches kids to play? Why doesn`t he play himself? Is he not good enough?

 
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  #36 (permalink)
 madLyfe 
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trader2 View Post
Same question for everyone who teaches something.
Why does a violin teacher teaches kids to play? Why doesn`t he play himself? Is he not good enough?

"people who can, do. people who cant, teach. people who cant teach, teach gym..." - HOUSE

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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 cory 
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traderwerks View Post
She has a Series 3 and Shadowtraders are a registered CTA.

I still haven't heard of a rule where you can sim trade and cannot trade a real account.

it's very fuzzy area subject to interpretation. The way to side step this gray area all together is just label what you do as 'education' only. CFTC, NFA Performance Results Blues | Turnkey Trading Partners
---------------------------------------------------------------
just receive this, Cater is CTA I think
Hubert, Rob, and I (Cater) will trade our live accounts sharing with you
our favorite trading strategies in the stock, options, futures &
forex markets that will take your trading to next level in 2012.

During this free (and ultra-timely) live class you will learn:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
or you can give your webinare from Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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@madLyfe HEHEHE I like your post!!!!!!

Very often that is true !!

 
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 bluemele 
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traderwerks View Post
She has a Series 3 and Shadowtraders are a registered CTA.

I still haven't heard of a rule where you can sim trade and cannot trade a real account.

Really? I also passed Series 3, but don't recall anything saying that a SIM account can't be traded in public? That is why I asked as it would be news to me which I am not saying is real or not, but just curious. Personally I don't believe there is any such limitation of being a registered CTA and sounds like a pile of S*#T that Vendors tell people..... (please don't take offense to you, but aimed at bullshit vendors..)

I can't count how many mortgage brokers have told me that they lose money on every loan they have done for me. haha... I love that line too...

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 bluemele 
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trader2 View Post
@tigertrader

Barbara says that she likes to make some extramoney, and why not?
Why do great musicians like Segiu Celibidache and others give mastercourses to young conductors?
Aren`t they not well enough paid or their own concerts? Don`t they have enough concerts?
Same thing for famous sports people.

And: I do not care if she trades or not.
I trade. That is important for me. And I use what she teaches.

I agree with TT, but this is a debate for so long. "Extra Money"?

How much extra money do you need to make if you are truly a successful trader? I could see opening up your own brokerage and growing an empire, but not sure teaching is the easiest or highest $ per hour return. Of course it is the way to 'give back' but that could also be done for free, but it is an eternal debate and I think for me personally it is impossible for me to understand why they do it unless they are not doing well enough.

I have heard that it could sharpen your trading as well, which I think is a possibly legit reason, but I don't see how teaching 1,000 people makes sense if that is the purpose?

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 bluemele 
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cory View Post
it's very fuzzy area subject to interpretation. The way to side step this gray area all together is just label what you do as 'education' only. CFTC, NFA Performance Results Blues | Turnkey Trading Partners
---------------------------------------------------------------
just receive this, Cater is CTA I think
Hubert, Rob, and I (Cater) will trade our live accounts sharing with you
our favorite trading strategies in the stock, options, futures &
forex markets that will take your trading to next level in 2012.

During this free (and ultra-timely) live class you will learn:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
or you can give your webinare from Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, if she is a CTA or CPO that manages other funds, then my understanding was that she would have to meet those rules etc.. But, if she is doing it for educational purposes and that is clearly documented and SHE DOES NOT manage other people's funds then she should not be in violation.

To be a CTA (manage others funds) and then have a educational course is probably a scam for most vendors to just suck in students by bypassing the 'rules'.

Does she have a disclosure statement?

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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@ bluemele

Melanie Son said in her weekly training that her own trading got better when she started to teach other people. That might be true.
Some people feel themself as a "born teacher". I have a friend, she studied the piano and I always thought that she does not play very good, but from the age of 16 she had piano students, kids, and she loves that! Teaching others! Today she is 48 years old and very successful, she has very good students and she teaches at a german "Musikhochschule" . (high school for professional musicians)

HEHE she also teaches young piano teachers how to be a better piano teacher HEHE

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I do not know anything about CTA rules, I am not from this business and not from America

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I am sitting here in front of my charts, it is a little bit boring, I just missed the bounce from R2 at 102.51 on crude because I was out with the dog

and I imagine that I would be a teacher who teaches what I see and what I will trade today.

Some people might feel great when they talk to others and teach them their methods.
It is a question of personality. I don`t know.


Don`t care too much about shadowtraders.
They do normal trading. They don`t hurt others. They have a set of rules and they created some of their own indicators for Ninja and yes, they want to sell that to others. It is especially good for very new traders as they explain everything from the beginning. If you are an experienced trader you might not need their package. If you are completely new to trading I recommend them as you never need to buy other packages. Everything is in the course, and it is not expensive. You can create your own trading out of that. They are not scams. They are trainers, that is it. Maybe you do not need them. That is fine, and that is all.

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Short CL from 101.84 to 101.81.

As a nervous 1 lot-trader I was scared when price went to 101.91. But then a fractal came in that showed me short scalp would work. I wanted to short yesterday`s high from 101.84, and shadowtraders give us every day for a lifetime all pivots, high/low/close of the day for many instruments, that is comportable for me. I open up my Ninja and all is set, they just need your machine ID.

With cumulative delta you could also "read the tape" and see the sellers. You do not need shadowtraders for that. I just wanted to give you an exemple how I use their work. I am not a "sales" of them, really not.
Should I ?

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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The problem is always: Of course the "salesmen" of scams or scam companies read the forums and make their postings there.
So if you write something positive about a company nobody knows if you are a "sales" or just a happy client.
The satified traders usually do not read or post in forums as they are busy with their own trading.

You can see that I did not make much postings here in this forum.
I am just so sorry as I do not feel that shadowtraders are scams. I feel that they are honest and not too expensive, but don`t buy their package if your trading works well. You might not need it.

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Next thing that I use for my trading, and that is the next "scam".
This might be another topic.
Google "school of trade" and you will find that these are scams too.
But every morning I read the "morning prep" of Joseph James. I never bought anything there, and I do not think I will buy the course. But he lets you read his morning prep every day for free, and it is nice analysis.
Another guy who loves to teach, I guess. I don`t care if he sells something. I use his free stuff and it helps me. That is all.

 
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 cory 
the coin hunter
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trader2 View Post
I am sitting here in front of my charts, it is a little bit boring, I just missed the bounce from R2 at 102.51 on crude because I was out with the dog

and I imagine that I would be a teacher who teaches what I see and what I will trade today.
....

you have enough post count to post some chart now.

 
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  #49 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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bluemele View Post
...
To be a CTA (manage others funds) and then have a educational course is probably a scam for most vendors to just suck in students by bypassing the 'rules'.

...?

from business stand point if i was a CTA I will choose this route too. (label 'education' on everything). Why jeopardy yourself, your business when they give you easy way out.

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I like to show charts - how can I do that? Never did it on this forum.

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Okay this is a snapshot of one of my CL charts.
I had to copy it from the other computer, that takes some time...

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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oh, it is very small, sorry...

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I use 15 min for big picture.
As you can see it is flat.
But you can see the fractals.

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 cory 
the coin hunter
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trader2 View Post
oh, it is very small, sorry...

mike has a how to here How-to Capture and Upload a Screenshot - Big Mike's Trading Forum

also with ninja all you have to do is right click on chart, image, save as then save it to your computer then attach it to your post.

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Thank you!

Yes, I found out how to copy it.
If you click on the chart it will be bigger.

This is just an exemple how the chart with the fractals look like.

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Honestly, there are 5 moving averages.
EMA 13
SMA 20,50,100,200
MACD with settings 19/38/9
Stochastics with settings 5/20/5
LinReg 4 and 9, it is in Ninja

pivots, high/low/close from yesterday, calculated by shadowtraders

this is considered as trend following if they are in alignment on different timeframes

or
as barriers, especially in the 1 min chart

out of that they created different indicators to better show. Arrows etc., for "lazy traders".

and their "fractals" which they calculate from counting every single trade. A nicer way to read the tape. Perfect tape readers do not need those fractals. It is just a visualization.

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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This is a snapshot of a "gapclose trade".

The blue candles show that you can do a gapclose here.
It bounces from yesterdays high and tries to touch the 13 EMA on the 1 min chart.

There are 8 rules to consider to be safe on that trade. These are my favorite trades.
I would not have taken this one as we are on the red SMA 200, and BuySellVolume does not show me a spike.

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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THey do classes for training every wednesday and thursday. Class begins now, at 11AM to 1 PM, held by Melanie and it comes for free, with the course. Melanie teaches how to follow a trend by using the moving averages and the LinReg which have to be parallel. I am not a trend trader, but I go to the wednesday classes. Thursday classes are not for my time zones.

So I apologize - I will listen now... cannot do more postings now...

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Marc V
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trader2 View Post
THey do classes for training every wednesday and thursday. Class begins now, at 11AM to 1 PM, held by Melanie and it comes for free, with the course. Melanie teaches how to follow a trend by using the moving averages and the LinReg which have to be parallel. I am not a trend trader, but I go to the wednesday classes. Thursday classes are not for my time zones.

So I apologize - I will listen now... cannot do more postings now...

Trader 2,

Thank you so much for these charts. This is really what it's all about here. TRADERS HELPING TRADERS! As Woodie whom I believe actuallly invented the "Woodies CCI" indicator would say "No candle ever went out by lighting another candle. " Yes I can see the charts were flat. However the chartsd are great. Why? They show me that the way the fractals are sent up to go long, along with your "curving down" indicators that say its not time to go long..I can see that you could probably get in on a trade in either direction and still be able to jump out if you are wrong regardless of how you interpret the trade. Why? For me, its because I like to take trades that have big R/R/ ratios of like 3-1 or better. My minimum is 2-1. But maybe that criteria might be holding me back. Maybe I need to risk more, to win less. I know that is counter intuitive, but every person I talk to says the key to success in trading is always risking a little money to make a lot on each trade. But if we "all" know this, why are most of us who do it like me, still not getting the results they want and being comfortable with it. I am always apprehensive before any trade regardless of how great the r/r/ is because I cant EVER seem to stay in the "over 50%" winning trades category to build my confidence enough to trade sufficient capital to make a living at futures/forex and have confidence of winning every single week. Thats always been my goal. Not to win every day which is unrealistic, but to never have a losing week. I need to "know" that, rather than hoping to achieve that. Maybe this system would help me do that or lead me towards making up my own system where I can trade "without ANY indicators" and have the eye to see a chart and know which way I should go by learning pattern recognition and using indicators know more like training wheels on a bicycle for small children....just something to use for a while until you can discard them at some point!

I cannot however deal with a 1 minute time frame to trade from. Do you think I could make Barb's system work if using a 233 tick chart or even a 4-renko chart which I use now? I need at least 3-5 min between bars to "feel" I am in control and to BE calm. Otherwise I could have just stayed with stocks and deal with the pressure of having to trade a different stock every day. Been there, done it. Hated that way because your nervous system gets shot from constantly scanning new charts and symbols.

What do you think about that? and btw....... are you coming close to being profitable consistently? I was told there is about a 2 month learning curve to make it really work if you are an intermediate level trader like myself. Trader 2, thanks again for posting those charts to let me see a couple of indicators,, as I admit I dont want to really hear any more "Dont trust anyone and learn your own stuff" even one more time here. =)... Why? I do that now and I am all over the place from reading about different methods and modalities from other traders, some who are really, really good and claim to be making a living at this game we call trading. Anyway, some guy left me his number on my phone while I was away these last few days saying he could answwer any questions I have. Heck, Ive spoken to 2 or 3 traders from this organization, I need to hear something that makes that light bulb go on and I go "BAM, This method makes me feel very confident and comfortable. Alas, I DO NOT get that feeling yet. I will call back and make a decision. I still feel something holding me back. Still, I would love to just focus on one instrument and master it already. Perhaps the 6E which Melanie claims is her favorite and I like it as well. So that would be a compatible start right there. Hmmmmm........

muchos gracias,
Marc

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  #60 (permalink)
 jta3 
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  #61 (permalink)
 jmont1 
New York, NY
 
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trader2 View Post
Honestly, there are 5 moving averages.
EMA 13
SMA 20,50,100,200
MACD with settings 19/38/9
Stochastics with settings 5/20/5
LinReg 4 and 9, it is in Ninja

pivots, high/low/close from yesterday, calculated by shadowtraders

this is considered as trend following if they are in alignment on different timeframes

or
as barriers, especially in the 1 min chart

out of that they created different indicators to better show. Arrows etc., for "lazy traders".

and their "fractals" which they calculate from counting every single trade. A nicer way to read the tape. Perfect tape readers do not need those fractals. It is just a visualization.

Trader2, I think people are fine that you are not a "shill" whom is recommending them for your own profit. No need to continue mentioning it.

May I request you take a look at the Fractal indicator recently posted by Erez in the Perry trading method section:



#post189358

It seems excellent but I cannot tell for sure. I also see a bwFractals in that thread but it just posts a fractal, where the new indicator looks very impressive.

I would appreciate if you could see if it matches up well to the ShadowTraders version.

Your confirmation would resolve my current hesitation in using it.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Separately, I have not worked with ShadowTraders but I do know someone whom I trust that recommends them. I am currently waiting on whether to join but my inclination is to keep waiting if their primary methodology is fractals and small scalps. Even with a reasonable commission rate of perhaps US $4 round trip, the commissions are ~ 10%.

I was a bit surprised that they and you are trading for such small tick increments. I also find that I can usually get three (3) ticks most of the time. Unfortunately, I usually try for more and run into disasters.

Perhaps I will start focusing on those wins for a while to build back the account.

I appreciate your posting the other indicators they use since it appears I use some version of them already. I will need t o try out using the 1 min charts.

Best of luck to you.

 
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  #62 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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Does Barb offer a money back guarantee? Of course, not.

Has she ever provided a single profitable track record for herself, or anybody who utilizes her methodology?

Plain and simple. The odds of ever becoming a professional trader, i.e., (actually supporting yourself from trading electronically) with a trading methodology that takes 3 ticks per trade is absolutely zero. As you attempt to scale this strategy, commissions and slippage will totally degrade your system.

Fractals are completely useless. I don't know of one professional trader who would give them a second thought. Of course, to the uninitiated they sound very cool, but in fact, they are pragmatically insignificant.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Instead, listen to someone who earns her living, not from trading; but from packaging some simplistic system, that anyone can come up, reading just about any book off Amazon .com., and then markets and sells it, to the famously ignorant and naive public.

Trading involves risk, and a methodology with little to no risk (1tick) commands a very high premium to be paid to the market, which in this case is a very limited upside to profitability. But once again, don't listen to me, because, just like any other "mark", you are only going to believe what you want to believe, not what is logical or makes common sense.

Bottom line is; there is nothing she can teach you that isn't available for free on this forum. In addition, you are being taught a methodology that is blatantly useless in the real world of trading. But what do I know? I've just supported my wife, myself, and my 6 kids on nothing but my trading income for 35 years.

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 wldman 
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you should have had more kids!

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  #64 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
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And of course, there is Rockwell Trading, another philanthropic trading company whose altruism knows no bounds. Their system is so effective that it was once sold for a whopping $597.00. How could a system , that could make you so much money, be so inexpensive?
Good question!!!
But nevertheless, Rockwell is so worried that you might be missing out on their very valuable system, that they are discounting it by 50%.





Get The Ultimate Day Trading System Now
Regular Price: $597 - Today Only $297


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Regular Price: $597
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  #65 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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Rockwell has actual student testifies against them here Updates rockwelltradingscam

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  #66 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Does Barb offer a money back guarantee? Of course, not.

My violin students never get their money back .
They practise and they are successful, or they do not and they are lazy. Am I a scam? I never give money back to people that got something from me, at least my time hehe
Did your teacher at college ever give his salary back? That would be ridiculous idea.

track record?
Remember, they are not a trade call service. You learn the method and pull the trigger 100 times a day every time you see a V on the linreg4 or twice a day only at a pivot.

You take something out of the method, or you don`t. It is up to you.
You can also take one idea from Rockwell. It is up to you. Only one idea, but for you it is THE IDEA.
One big clue, and it is worth 1000 $ for you, or nothing because you know everything already, so you wasted your money.

The question is? Is teaching others a bad thing? Is every teacher a scam because he tells others how he could do something? I do not think so. You are yelling at the teachers and the teaching in general, I think.


Especially in trading too many people try on their own and loose money.

The scam discussion in the world of trading is really an interesting phenomena to me...

I am a musician, and the musicians are playing the two favourite games to others:
Saying "He cannot play" ("er kann nicht")
or
"we do not let him into our orchestra" ("er darf nicht"). "He is out and we are in, hehe, we decide who may join us, AND YOU MAY NOT,hehe" . These are games.
The favourite musician games to have the power about others.


In trading it is always the game "does he trade a life account? Or just sim?" (what is wrong about sim???)
and "is he a scam? Is he only selling something to newbies?"

You forget all those honest people who trade live and give their knowledge to others, like in every normal profession. Those who like to show others what they are successful in. Those who feel lonely as a trader at home etc.. Those who want to give back. Those who just like to talk.

Of course there are scams and good sellers. But that is the same as in every profession.

I think some of them consider themselfs as good teachers, but they are not (Huddy`s channel trading, a guitar player and he seems to like the sound of his voice more than the sound of his guitar students... sorry, Huddy)

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I like to have a look at all the other posts and charts, but sorry, I will do it at the weekend. Too late now.


The fractals work on every timeframe. Everything works on all timeframes and also on range charts as well.

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  #68 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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If Perry counts every trade his fractals might be the same as Barbara`s are. I will have a closer look to that at the weekend.

I am sure that a good programmer can code everything like Barbara and save the money for the software.
Problem: I am not a programmer. I have to buy it from somebody or I have to find it on a forum.


Again my thoughts about "who is a scam?"
Is a private programmer a scam because he sells his indicators that he uses for his own trading?
Is a violinist from an orchestra a scam because between two rehearsals he makes some extra money teaching a very stupid 10 years old girl 45 minutes of violin because the parents of that girl want that? And the girl never practises at home... so there is no "track record"

 
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  #69 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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trader2, can you confirm you have no association with this vendor or any of its personnel, and are not affiliated with them or their operation in any way?

Mike

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  #70 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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I was with Rob Hoffman for 3 months, and I turned that sound off !!
I felt so sorry with him - he was looking for a family... he talked all the time. I could not listen. He was talking about nothing, but such a nice person! Does he make money? I am not interested in that answer.
But I still have a very small chart with his template on my screen. Sometimes I see a pattern, or a barrier.


I was even with puretick.com
They use a kind of cumulative delta like fulcrumtraders do , but I "hate" Alex W. because he only teaches his "inner circle" that does mentorship for another 7500 $ per week everything. Alex trades big contract size and scaling in and out, but he never explains that, even if he could, and for me THAT IS CHEATING.
Taking 350 $ per months from 2nd class clients that pay per month - the "light version of puretick"
and then phone calls, paid per minute, discussions about money management,
and then the mentorship.
He does some kind of volume analysis, AND HE MIGHT BE ON SIM ALL THE TIME. He has a buzzer to call trades, but every 1 lot trader loses his money following that buzzer. Alex laughs at those "newbies" and he says that they just did not watch his videos, that they are lazy traders not watching the videos. But in the videos he just shows some moving averages on some timeframes.
Since I started to be a member of fulcrum I understood a little bit what Alex was probably doing - scaling in , together with the big money, watching the tape, being thousands in the minus, all the time averaging the cost basis using money managing, and all that could just be on sim!!!!!
For me THAT MIGHT BE A SCAM.
He is calling out trades that you cannot follow, and he does never show his DOM.
But they have a nice track record on their website.

 
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  #71 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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Bigmike, how can I confirm that? I am just satisfied client. I like to confirm what you ask me. I bought their package, that`s it.

That is the problem if you want to discuss vendors on this forum.
How do you know who is just happy client.

 
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  #72 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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This is discouraging people like me to talk about their enthusiasm that after years they finally get 2 times 3 ticks out of the market every day using a package they bought for not so many dollars and that ends their losing trading career. My biggest losses in fact were: Buying useless packages...

95% of all trades lose their money...

 
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  #73 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
Experience: Intermediate
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95% of all traders....

 
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  #74 (permalink)
 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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these forums often sound as if 95 % of all traders were winner, sorry...

but I am very honest.

Who makes 40 to 70 dollars a day? And some days just zero, using 1 contract?

 
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  #75 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
Market Wizard
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tigertrader View Post

Fractals are completely useless. I don't know of one professional trader who would give them a second thought. Of course, to the uninitiated they sound very cool, but in fact, they are pragmatically insignificant.

someone would like to say hi:


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  #76 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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cory View Post
Rockwell has actual student testifies against them here Updates rockwelltradingscam

Yes I've seen Fritz' crusade on exposing Rockwell since last summer and his posts on elite. I recall seeing a 5min CNBC segment on Hoekitter once where he tells the reporter that volatile times was good for daytrading. It was only for a few minutes and just a short segment on online retail "day trading" in general in the tough volatile market last fall. But I was surprised they surveyed Hoekitter. Especially after Fritz' blog had been going on for a while.. Made me think CNBC had and has been oblivious to the retail forex and future trading and probably trading education scams for a long time. For the longest time they had Rick Santelli confined to his desk area only, visually, at the CME. And they also survey Larry Levin from time to time.

Forums - A list of all scam unregulated 3rd party educational vendors

Forums - CNBC and Jim Cramer


That said, shadowtrading does work, but only with a legit trader willing to share their entries and who is trading it themselves which is probably rarer than 99.something% percent out there. As a former CJ Booth room attendee, we shadowtraded him for about a month and a half and made some $. He's closed since mid-January. I think he got tired of the whole thing. Also it's easier to shadowtrade a longer time frame setup and watching for a setup candle or two as the host calls it, rather than a sudden entry. Some of us would get 5 ticks instead of 10, or miss out completely etc. if the market moved fast or jerked after entry. Of course those of us who familiarized ourselves with his setups could enter earlier in faith with his system and sometimes did as well as he did. Then of course being stopped out on a failed trade could vary all over the place too.

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  #77 (permalink)
 ddnut 
San Marcos, CA
 
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When starting out a year ago I attended one of the 'live' seminars by ShadowTraders and the system looked really impressive as they made amazing calls using their fractal lines ... until I realized that the 1 hour seminar covered about three hours in the market.

I had recorded the seminar so I played it back and confirmed the bars were closing in 1/3 the time so it was clear they were just replaying the market and only pretending to make live calls. I did not bother with ShadowTraders after that. I just moved on.

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  #78 (permalink)
 jmont1 
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trader2 View Post
I like to have a look at all the other posts and charts, but sorry, I will do it at the weekend. Too late now.


The fractals work on every timeframe. Everything works on all timeframes and also on range charts as well.

T2,

I hope you again try to post a bigger version of your 1 minute chart if that is mainly what you trade from. What is the significance of the bottom of the chart that has: 100.74 Last 0.66 Net - it does not appear to be the current price.

It also looks like there may be a slope percentage indicator in the top right corner. Is that part of the system or did you add that indicator like MASlope?

Do you have any parameters or check list for what the parameters for a trade should be?


Thanks for trying to help us understand the system methodology.

 
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  #79 (permalink)
 bluemele 
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Silvester17 View Post
someone would like to say hi:


If only this was awarded because of profits gained.

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  #80 (permalink)
 Nicolas11 
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@trader2,

I like your comparison with violin teaching, but I think that this comparison is not relevant in all cases.

The core point is that the teacher has to be clear about what he is selling.

(1) If the teacher claims the following:
"I used to be a trader. I am not any more. But I can help you in your journey."
"I do not pretend to be a good trader but I can help you from psychological or money management point of view".
"I have a method which makes me profitable, but it has a large discretionary part. I can teach you but I do not guarantee you will succeed also."
"I have an idea on the market that I think is good. But it is not profitable by itself. However, perhaps you could improve your trading by incorporating it in your methods."
--> OK, that's clear. We take or we leave. And perhaps a track record is not necessary from the teacher.
For me this is more or less comparable to the violin teaching image.

But if the teacher claims:
(2) "I have a method which is profitable, and which will make you profitable too. By the way, this method costs a lot."
I guess that, in this case, asking for track record or live real trading is relevant.
And this is not really comparable to violin teaching.

Just my opinion.

(I was speaking in general. I do not know the vendor which is discussed in this thread.)

Nicolas


trader2 View Post
Does Barb offer a money back guarantee? Of course, not.

My violin students never get their money back .
They practise and they are successful, or they do not and they are lazy. Am I a scam? I never give money back to people that got something from me, at least my time hehe
Did your teacher at college ever give his salary back? That would be ridiculous idea.

track record?
Remember, they are not a trade call service. You learn the method and pull the trigger 100 times a day every time you see a V on the linreg4 or twice a day only at a pivot.

You take something out of the method, or you don`t. It is up to you.
You can also take one idea from Rockwell. It is up to you. Only one idea, but for you it is THE IDEA.
One big clue, and it is worth 1000 $ for you, or nothing because you know everything already, so you wasted your money.

The question is? Is teaching others a bad thing? Is every teacher a scam because he tells others how he could do something? I do not think so. You are yelling at the teachers and the teaching in general, I think.


Especially in trading too many people try on their own and loose money.

The scam discussion in the world of trading is really an interesting phenomena to me...

I am a musician, and the musicians are playing the two favourite games to others:
Saying "He cannot play" ("er kann nicht")
or
"we do not let him into our orchestra" ("er darf nicht"). "He is out and we are in, hehe, we decide who may join us, AND YOU MAY NOT,hehe" . These are games.
The favourite musician games to have the power about others.


In trading it is always the game "does he trade a life account? Or just sim?" (what is wrong about sim???)
and "is he a scam? Is he only selling something to newbies?"

You forget all those honest people who trade live and give their knowledge to others, like in every normal profession. Those who like to show others what they are successful in. Those who feel lonely as a trader at home etc.. Those who want to give back. Those who just like to talk.

Of course there are scams and good sellers. But that is the same as in every profession.

I think some of them consider themselfs as good teachers, but they are not (Huddy`s channel trading, a guitar player and he seems to like the sound of his voice more than the sound of his guitar students... sorry, Huddy)


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  #81 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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Silvester17 View Post
someone would like to say hi:



bluemele View Post
If only this was awarded because of profits gained.


I stand by what I said.

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  #82 (permalink)
 heywally 
Pismo Beach CA
 
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DionysusToast View Post
Well....

I worked with an Aussie company once - they were in the financial area, can't remember what any more as it was so long ago and I was just consulting..

Anyway - the name they chose for themselves was "Plan B"

I believe their competitor "Plan A" cornered the market....

I went with Plan 9 instead .....

This thread is getting long in the tooth, isn't it?

With 'day trading' I follow this free and simple system .... see how price reacts around significant support and resistance areas -- and look for higher highs/higher lows, etc -- and then go with the short term trend, with a stop just far enough above/below resistance/support to not get shaken out too quickly. You may want to get more than 3 ticks -- or whatever -- out of the trade though.

I have a similar effective and free system for losing weight - eat less, exercise more.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
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  #83 (permalink)
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
 
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heywally View Post
I went with Plan 9 instead .....

This thread is getting long in the tooth, isn't it?

With 'day trading' I follow this free and simple system .... see how price reacts around significant support and resistance areas -- and look for higher highs/higher lows, etc -- and then go with the short term trend, with a stop just far enough above/below resistance/support to not get shaken out too quickly. You may want to get more than 3 ticks -- or whatever -- out of the trade though.

I have a similar effective and free system for losing weight - eat less, exercise more.


Yes, in theory, that may seem to be enough. But in practice, (especially if you are going to take your trading to the next level) it requires just a little broader skill set in reference to market knowledge, emotional discipline, methodology and money management.

As the wise man (you have chosen to be your avatar), once said,

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

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 heywally 
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tigertrader View Post
Yes, in theory, that may seem to be enough. But in practice, (especially if you are going to take your trading to the next level) it requires just a little broader skill set in reference to market knowledge, emotional discipline, methodology and money management.

As the wise man (you have chosen to be your avatar), once said,

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

That's a good one of his, hadn't heard it. I oversimplify of course but with the right time frame and conservative position sizing, you can cobble together a pretty simple and good -- generally, non day-trading -- system using support and resistance levels for buying and selling. Most people here though, are looking for more frequent day trading profits ... I am mostly moving away from that, largely because my entries and trading vehicles are pretty decent but I take profits too quickly.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
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 trendisyourfriend 
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I like your diplomatic reply so let me say Hi to the elite on this board.


Silvester17 View Post
someone would like to say hi:


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 tigertrader 
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heywally View Post
That's a good one of his, hadn't heard it. I oversimplify of course but with the right time frame and conservative position sizing, you can cobble together a pretty simple and good -- generally, non day-trading -- system using support and resistance levels for buying and selling. Most people here though, are looking for more frequent day trading profits ... I am mostly moving away from that, largely because my entries and trading vehicles are pretty decent but I take profits too quickly.


Roger, that. My "average time in the market" is up to 290.00 minutes this year.

From a previous post of mine...

A classic - Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute University - YouTube


Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute Trading University

All you really need to learn to become a successful trader...

master the 4m’s
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 heywally 
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tigertrader View Post
Roger, that. My "average time in the market" is up to 290.00 minutes this year.

From a previous post of mine...

A classic - Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute University - YouTube


Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute Trading University

All you really need to learn to become a successful trader...

....

Thanks for the Father Guido! - he helped me survive the disco era.

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
 
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 trader2 
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@jmont 1

An exemple of a "gap trade"

a bit risky

trade bounces from a barrier, in this case a pivot.
The box is a Ninja Indicator st MASlope BoxMulti for the 13 EMA, shadow coded it a bit better than the default.
it has to be 45 degrees or lower. look at the bigger chart, that is the updated version
blue or beige in the backgroung (from fractals, that means possible change of direction)
V in the brown LinReg 4 is not so nice, it should be sharper, a real V
MACD should not go through the centerline against the trade
BuySellVolume should have a spike
candle should have a tail or wick (not so perfect on that trade, there was an additional fakeout to the north)
enough ticks to the 13 EMA, more than 3


sorry again that chart is so small

you see that you have to train that kind of trade
so track record depends on your own risk appetite

the "LAST" is yesterdays close
NET is difference from actual price to yesterday close

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 trader2 
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sorry, you cannot see very much...
just an impression.

 
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 trader2 
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if you have Ninja

put on it
BuySellVolume
MACD 19-38-9
1 minute candlestick
LinReg4 and 9
the 5 MA`s
watch for an angle on the 13 EMA, it should flatten out a bit

look for every barrier that you know
pivots, yesterday high low close, double top and bottom

see if that speaks to you

trade sim first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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 trader2 
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that is not the whole course, just some basics of one setup, without having fractals

I look for bounces back to EMA13

 
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 Big Mike 
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trader2 View Post
sorry, you cannot see very much...
just an impression.

Least of which is price -- covered by the 16 other lines and indicators on the chart.

Mike

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 cory 
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trader2 View Post
sorry, you cannot see very much...
just an impression.

chart are gigantic click on them 3 times to zoom them.

 
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 trader2 
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@Mike

You can take price markers off.
I am used to the charts. And it is not the only chart I watch. And there is also the tape.

 
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 jmont1 
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trader2 View Post
@jmont 1

An exemple of a "gap trade"...

the "LAST" is yesterdays close
NET is difference from actual price to yesterday close

Trader2, THANK YOU for your .
I am still very intrigued by this system and want to understand it better. I have a job that lets me check this type of chart periodically during the day. I am trying to set up a system that I can quickly refer to, make a decision, go back to work. Then if it can alert me to a change in market conditions I can quickly go back to the screen and make another decision.

Although many people including the purveyors of these systems like to highlight “I made $300 in four minutes,” the reality is that people have spent hours waiting for those four minutes. Reminds me of the horse track bettor who shows up at 8 am to check the horses and speak to the jockeys. The horse wins at 3:25pm ( 7 1/2 hours.) And the bettor says that was a quick $200 for just 5 minutes work.


- - - - -

Back to the charts:

I thought that was MASlope (great indicator.) It sounds like you only use it for impending exit at below 45. Is moving up to 45 an entry indicator or do you just use it for exit?

Otherwise, your indicators seem a bit basic for the wealth of enhanced indicators available here. For instance, instead of just the Macd, perhaps the MACDBBLines would help you a bit. It is a very good indicator.

On the five (5) MAs, I tried looking at using the Triple MA that has audio alerts when there is a cross over. I think it is a good item, but as mentioned here there is only so much that can be on a chart before you lose visibility. Then again. The price is actually on the right side and always visible.

In terms of the LinReg’s – they seem very close to standard MAs or better yet Regression channels. I was looking at using the triple MA because of the shding it puts in. Unfortunately, it does obscure the chart. I would appreciate your feed back on these comparisons of the Linreg to the MAs; if you have that knowledge – I have not found that information so not surprised if it is a matter of nuance.

The MOST INTRIGUING COMMENT is "watch for an angle on the 13 EMA, it should flatten out a bit." This sounds like a small slope is expected for initial entry. Any comment on that slope; i.e... a 33% slope means you already missed it?

And the last item, I am trying to use a spreadsheet checklist to evaluate the market conditions for the short time I have available to check in on it. Do you have any checklist items?

Currently I have quite a few, but here are some:

"Long" running info
GAP Opening
Open Outside HVA
Defined Trend
U-Turn back in Trend direction
Fast Swing - Big Move

S/ Rés / Pivot “ish” close

Churn for >~ 15 minutes
Bar closes above channel (not whole bar)
Previous day (s) H / L crossed!

MACD Cross "0"
Swing Low or L.O.D.
Recent fractal
MAs fanning
EMA 13 Slope > 45
ATR > 2 points


OOPS, forgot to ask if you tried comaring the new fractal indicator the the one you use to see if the are close.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 
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 trader2 
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@jmont1

"Although many people including the purveyors of these systems like to highlight “I made $300 in four minutes,” the reality is that people have spent hours waiting for those four minutes. Reminds me of the horse track bettor who shows up at 8 am to check the horses and speak to the jockeys. The horse wins at 3:25pm ( 7 1/2 hours.) And the bettor says that was a quick $200 for just 5 minutes work."


I love that statement so much!!!!!
That is so true!

I am sitting in front of my charts and waiting for a "gap close".

I am practising violin, have my violin in my hand, so this is not so boring. Both is boring - etudes for violin and waiting for my setup.

I am learning my concerts and I am traing a feeling that you have in an audition, when a trading setup comes in. That is funny. I play my concert, then I am in the trade, and it feels like a competition. Next time on a violin competition I am so trained by my trading...

that is real life.

I am honest.
Nobody in a forum tells you the truth about his daily routine.
They all seem to have clean and perfect charts, making money every day with great setups. No cluttered charts like me... with 16 lines so you can even not see the price...
they all get up early in the morning, beginning the day with sports, and ending with at least 1000 $ a day, with a great trend following strategy and no 3 ticks...

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 jmont1 
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trader2 View Post
@ jmont1

That is so true!

I am learning my concerts and I am traing a feeling that you have in an audition, when a trading setup comes in. That is funny. I play my concert, then I am in the trade, and it feels like a competition. Next time on a violin competition I am so trained by my trading...

that is real life. I am honest.
..

Trader2, My family is involved in Scouting (Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.) I have found it a wonderful basis for my life. No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar. ~Abraham Lincoln
that translates to me as I am not smart enough to lie.

My advice to you is to not try to respond to comments about your initial advocacy of ShadowTraders but to focus on what is your personal trading style. It appears you have captured the attention of many members. Let's get some value out of this discourse.

Back to trading. Any comment on the fractals and how this indicator matches to yours? Any advice on the list of items to check periodically?

And as advice, please look into the expanded indicators here. Especially look at the ones that have alerts - sound alerts for me - that can bring your attention back to the market at important movements. Thus taking your mind off your musical instrument and back to the financial instrument at critical trading opportunites.

An interesting thread is "" Priarily interesting because the bot s struggle so much. I LOVE this area and hope to eventually see one that is VERY effective. The rules of that autobot would likely become my mantra.

Any feedback on my questions is appreciated. I wish you the best of luck; "Ich wünsche ihnen viel glück."

 
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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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@jmont1

back to the charts


Sharing your ideas, posting charts ...

That all takes much of your time, if you are not trained to do that.

an active trader does not have so much time.
I begin to understand that a thousand dollars is not so much when the package is full of chart exemples, indicators, templates etc. This is even true for Rockwell and their sideways market system that only works on sim (and only on TRADESTATION SIM !!!!!!!!!!!) Guys who really trade know why I write that. The others believe that this thing works...

and believe me - I do not think that those vendors are selling so many packages to make a living from that.
These times are over! That was in the golden 1990ies!! Nowadays they really have to make a living from their trading!
Especially as everybody is considered as a "scam" who is excited about his own indicator settings and telling others about that.
even me!
Big Mike asked me already if I have any relationship or affilate system with shadowtraders.
I can tell you: At that moment I asked myself why I am so stupid to post on this forum instead of just making my few ticks a day , and to waste my time, even discussions with persons like tigertrader. I am a violinist that trades when the telephone does not ring.
I make some dollars a day. I am not a hedge funds and I do not scale in and out 40 contracts using 60 and 15 minutecharts with moving averages.
I am a hobby trader. I like to tell every other trader who is also a hobby trader and asking himself if he should spend those 1000 dollars to buy another package that he could buy that thing, and that is exactly the topic of this thread.

I did not join any affilate program of shadowtraders. This is an american thing.
I went to their website - as a good american company they have an affilate program and maybe I should sign up for that as I really already spent some hours here on BigMikes forum to tell everybody that shadows are not scams and proving that with charts and realtime trading that you see on the chart. If they pay me 90 dollars because maybe jmont1 buys the package - then I am really a scam!!!!! Everybody agrees? Right?
(Don`t worry, jealous girls and boys, there is no affilate programm with trader2 and shadow)
In Germany affilate programs are are still a thing that every serious owner of a german passport tries to avoid.
Affilate programs have very bad reputation,nobody buys that b...
Maybe a mistake and old-fashioned way of thinking. The truth is that you earn nothing with those affilate programs as nobody buys that. If BigMike really believes that I spend hours with his forum because I might earn 30 british pounds or rupies or dollars because I convinced one person to buy shadowtrades package, then thank you.

The fact is that I already began to teach some methods from shadowtraders as I showed some charts.
And I can see how much time that takes.
Now I shall compare some charts to another guy who also programmed fractals. You know how much time it takes me to install everything, create charts, compare them, upload them and so on.

Irgendwie habe ich auch keine Lust dazu.

Am Ende verklagt shadowtraders mich noch, weil ich irgendeine eigenen Indis im Internet poste.

Please.
I bought that package, I showed their work. I will not teach their method on this forum ,
just because some guys still believe that shadow are just sellers and I prove the opposite, so again others try to learn the whole concept and at the end I have a problem with shadowtraders.
I make some dollars out of their work.
Showing every chart here costs me so much time -
you have an impression how look their charts and what they do.
I am not an affilate. I am a satisfied client. But I do not share more of their work. It is more than they show in their webinars at tuesdays 8PM. I thought about that a lot, the whole day. Of course tigertrader insults me to follow a scam, BigMike laughs at my "cluttered charts so you can even not see the price" (but why does BigMike not just trade but have a forum..." He should trade more should not he? Why does he run a forum? I know nothing about his successful trading.

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 trader2 
Berlin,Berlin
 
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our postings crossed each other, and mine sounds a bit frustrated because of that affilate discussion - I am so sorry! I am really trader combines with musician / musicians are so jealous if anybody is successful - same for trader!
If one trader makes one tick, the next traders insults him as a scam.

 
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 jmont1 
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trader2 View Post
@ jmont1

back to the charts


Sharing your ideas, posting charts ...

That all takes much of your time, if you are not trained to do that.

an active trader does not have so much time.
I begin to understand that a thousand dollars is not so much when the package is full of chart exemples, indicators, templates etc..

Trader2, thanks for the efforts you put forward here. Good luck trading!


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