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Shadowtraders system. Scam or real? (
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Shadowtraders system. Scam or real? (

  #61 (permalink)
Market Wizard
New York, NY
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader8
Broker/Data: Data = Rithmic -- Gives 70 Level II Data
Favorite Futures: 6C (Low Margin,) 6E, CL, GC, ES and Maybe DX for smaller tick value
Posts: 974 since May 2011
Thanks: 1,435 given, 657 received

trader2 View Post
Honestly, there are 5 moving averages.
EMA 13
SMA 20,50,100,200
MACD with settings 19/38/9
Stochastics with settings 5/20/5
LinReg 4 and 9, it is in Ninja

pivots, high/low/close from yesterday, calculated by shadowtraders

this is considered as trend following if they are in alignment on different timeframes

as barriers, especially in the 1 min chart

out of that they created different indicators to better show. Arrows etc., for "lazy traders".

and their "fractals" which they calculate from counting every single trade. A nicer way to read the tape. Perfect tape readers do not need those fractals. It is just a visualization.

Trader2, I think people are fine that you are not a "shill" whom is recommending them for your own profit. No need to continue mentioning it.

May I request you take a look at the Fractal indicator recently posted by Erez in the Perry trading method section:


It seems excellent but I cannot tell for sure. I also see a bwFractals in that thread but it just posts a fractal, where the new indicator looks very impressive.

I would appreciate if you could see if it matches up well to the ShadowTraders version.

Your confirmation would resolve my current hesitation in using it.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Separately, I have not worked with ShadowTraders but I do know someone whom I trust that recommends them. I am currently waiting on whether to join but my inclination is to keep waiting if their primary methodology is fractals and small scalps. Even with a reasonable commission rate of perhaps US $4 round trip, the commissions are ~ 10%.

I was a bit surprised that they and you are trading for such small tick increments. I also find that I can usually get three (3) ticks most of the time. Unfortunately, I usually try for more and run into disasters.

Perhaps I will start focusing on those wins for a while to build back the account.

I appreciate your posting the other indicators they use since it appears I use some version of them already. I will need t o try out using the 1 min charts.

Best of luck to you.

  #62 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philly, Pa
Trading Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES, ZB
tigertrader's Avatar
Posts: 5,948 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 6,314 given, 31,960 received

Does Barb offer a money back guarantee? Of course, not.

Has she ever provided a single profitable track record for herself, or anybody who utilizes her methodology?

Plain and simple. The odds of ever becoming a professional trader, i.e., (actually supporting yourself from trading electronically) with a trading methodology that takes 3 ticks per trade is absolutely zero. As you attempt to scale this strategy, commissions and slippage will totally degrade your system.

Fractals are completely useless. I don't know of one professional trader who would give them a second thought. Of course, to the uninitiated they sound very cool, but in fact, they are pragmatically insignificant.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Instead, listen to someone who earns her living, not from trading; but from packaging some simplistic system, that anyone can come up, reading just about any book off Amazon .com., and then markets and sells it, to the famously ignorant and naive public.

Trading involves risk, and a methodology with little to no risk (1tick) commands a very high premium to be paid to the market, which in this case is a very limited upside to profitability. But once again, don't listen to me, because, just like any other "mark", you are only going to believe what you want to believe, not what is logical or makes common sense.

Bottom line is; there is nothing she can teach you that isn't available for free on this forum. In addition, you are being taught a methodology that is blatantly useless in the real world of trading. But what do I know? I've just supported my wife, myself, and my 6 kids on nothing but my trading income for 35 years.

Last edited by tigertrader; February 16th, 2012 at 07:59 AM.
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  #63 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: duh hammer!
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you should have had more kids!

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  #64 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philly, Pa
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tigertrader's Avatar
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And of course, there is Rockwell Trading, another philanthropic trading company whose altruism knows no bounds. Their system is so effective that it was once sold for a whopping $597.00. How could a system , that could make you so much money, be so inexpensive?
Good question!!!
But nevertheless, Rockwell is so worried that you might be missing out on their very valuable system, that they are discounting it by 50%.

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  #65 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Rockwell has actual student testifies against them here Updates rockwelltradingscam

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  #66 (permalink)
Elite Member
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Does Barb offer a money back guarantee? Of course, not.

My violin students never get their money back .
They practise and they are successful, or they do not and they are lazy. Am I a scam? I never give money back to people that got something from me, at least my time hehe
Did your teacher at college ever give his salary back? That would be ridiculous idea.

track record?
Remember, they are not a trade call service. You learn the method and pull the trigger 100 times a day every time you see a V on the linreg4 or twice a day only at a pivot.

You take something out of the method, or you don`t. It is up to you.
You can also take one idea from Rockwell. It is up to you. Only one idea, but for you it is THE IDEA.
One big clue, and it is worth 1000 $ for you, or nothing because you know everything already, so you wasted your money.

The question is? Is teaching others a bad thing? Is every teacher a scam because he tells others how he could do something? I do not think so. You are yelling at the teachers and the teaching in general, I think.

Especially in trading too many people try on their own and loose money.

The scam discussion in the world of trading is really an interesting phenomena to me...

I am a musician, and the musicians are playing the two favourite games to others:
Saying "He cannot play" ("er kann nicht")
"we do not let him into our orchestra" ("er darf nicht"). "He is out and we are in, hehe, we decide who may join us, AND YOU MAY NOT,hehe" . These are games.
The favourite musician games to have the power about others.

In trading it is always the game "does he trade a life account? Or just sim?" (what is wrong about sim???)
and "is he a scam? Is he only selling something to newbies?"

You forget all those honest people who trade live and give their knowledge to others, like in every normal profession. Those who like to show others what they are successful in. Those who feel lonely as a trader at home etc.. Those who want to give back. Those who just like to talk.

Of course there are scams and good sellers. But that is the same as in every profession.

I think some of them consider themselfs as good teachers, but they are not (Huddy`s channel trading, a guitar player and he seems to like the sound of his voice more than the sound of his guitar students... sorry, Huddy)

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  #67 (permalink)
Elite Member
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Ninja/CGQ
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Thanks: 6 given, 50 received

I like to have a look at all the other posts and charts, but sorry, I will do it at the weekend. Too late now.

The fractals work on every timeframe. Everything works on all timeframes and also on range charts as well.

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  #68 (permalink)
Elite Member
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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If Perry counts every trade his fractals might be the same as Barbara`s are. I will have a closer look to that at the weekend.

I am sure that a good programmer can code everything like Barbara and save the money for the software.
Problem: I am not a programmer. I have to buy it from somebody or I have to find it on a forum.

Again my thoughts about "who is a scam?"
Is a private programmer a scam because he sells his indicators that he uses for his own trading?
Is a violinist from an orchestra a scam because between two rehearsals he makes some extra money teaching a very stupid 10 years old girl 45 minutes of violin because the parents of that girl want that? And the girl never practises at home... so there is no "track record"

  #69 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
Big Mike's Avatar
Posts: 46,870 since Jun 2009
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trader2, can you confirm you have no association with this vendor or any of its personnel, and are not affiliated with them or their operation in any way?


Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
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  #70 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I was with Rob Hoffman for 3 months, and I turned that sound off !!
I felt so sorry with him - he was looking for a family... he talked all the time. I could not listen. He was talking about nothing, but such a nice person! Does he make money? I am not interested in that answer.
But I still have a very small chart with his template on my screen. Sometimes I see a pattern, or a barrier.

I was even with
They use a kind of cumulative delta like fulcrumtraders do , but I "hate" Alex W. because he only teaches his "inner circle" that does mentorship for another 7500 $ per week everything. Alex trades big contract size and scaling in and out, but he never explains that, even if he could, and for me THAT IS CHEATING.
Taking 350 $ per months from 2nd class clients that pay per month - the "light version of puretick"
and then phone calls, paid per minute, discussions about money management,
and then the mentorship.
He does some kind of volume analysis, AND HE MIGHT BE ON SIM ALL THE TIME. He has a buzzer to call trades, but every 1 lot trader loses his money following that buzzer. Alex laughs at those "newbies" and he says that they just did not watch his videos, that they are lazy traders not watching the videos. But in the videos he just shows some moving averages on some timeframes.
Since I started to be a member of fulcrum I understood a little bit what Alex was probably doing - scaling in , together with the big money, watching the tape, being thousands in the minus, all the time averaging the cost basis using money managing, and all that could just be on sim!!!!!
He is calling out trades that you cannot follow, and he does never show his DOM.
But they have a nice track record on their website.

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