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www.oiltradinggroup.com as a Live trading room for OIL, anyone?


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www.oiltradinggroup.com as a Live trading room for OIL, anyone?

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  #1 (permalink)
 futurestrader1 
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Oil Trading Group has a live OIL trading room....Oil is a crazy market to trade. Can anyone comment here or just another scam? Has a free trial at least.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
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Just some comments. I've noticed they concentrate on ETF's. and options. Maybe on a higher time frame than 5min chart futures. On my simulated journal I've only attempted to trade oil ETF's such as OIH using delta-neutral calendars and selling option premium. I've tried trading USO in the past with single options and gauging oil news, but with no success. I have no idea about intraday particular directional characteristics about oil and such details such as how daily oil inventories affect intraday price.

There was this thread on selling options on commodity futures such as oil here:


I tried a simulated trade for 3 months selling a far strike short put. And it worked in the end with max profit because CL didn't drop below 77. But there were interim giant drawdowns up to 8x max profit and there was considerable margin requirement for single short options. So it would only work if one had a big account and used only like 15% of the total account for selling a basket of options on various futures instruments.
Like in www.libertytradinggroup.com 's ad literature says, it's a style of option position&seasonal trading for "wealthy investors".

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 ptpatrader 
Chicago, Illinois, United States
 
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I wanted to post this because I notice Cloudy had commented and I am not sure this is the same live room that he is referring too. I sat in with the Oil Trading Group this week (oiltradinggroup.com), and gave it as good of a shot as I could. I was interested in the group because they look legit, and I had been receiving emails citing "+422 Ticks...." and "+341 Ticks..." and my greed sensor kicked in and I thought I would give them a go. However having fallen in love with the Jigsaw DOM, and say they use it, I was even more interested to check them out.

They do not trade etfs or options. They trade CL and ES only. The main guy is called Jason - I dont know his last name. The sales side of the outfit is David Hamman, whom I spoke with. He seemed legit, though he refuted all other types of futures trading over CL, and tried to tell me it was easier to trade than the treasuries. I tried to highlight in the call that surely the volatility might not be everyone surely and he didnt disagree or agree; it felt a little salesy/pushy but could have been the fact he doesnt trade and doesnt know.

In the trading room Jason comes in at 7:45, gives a rundown of what he expects and then you're off to the races at 8AM CST when the pit opens. His first trade of the day is an opening range play (I have never traded opening ranges due to the obvious gambling aspect to it). He often goes for 10 ticks profit with a 12 tick stop.

I am a large-lot trader and it was impossible to make any money. Jason goes for close targets with three lots and then lets a single runner run - this week most runners got stopped out and a lot of the main trades did too. I found it manic. On Thursday I was down $6000 within the first 5 minutes trading 10 lots. Trade after trade failed. As it got manic I would realize Jason had now got short or long the ES or the CL while I was still trying to understand what was going on. Sometimes he would just say "I'm shorting here at 95's" and by the time I looked at that in the DOM price had already dropped and I couldnt get in. When it got manic it looked like he was just looking to take any old trade.

I must highlight I didnt pay for his course so I dont know his method. I would say if you dont already have a pre-conceived notion of price action and how to get in, you might fare better. For myself when he was saying short I was thinking long and vice versa. In the end of Friday I made back $7000 on the sim account myself, shutting it down at negative $11k.

For me the small number of contracts meant that the way he scaled in and out was not conducive for me. He would say his first target is 10 ticks but then it would come to 5 ticks with a 1 lot runner that then lost. Or he would put on the trade and then let it stop out for 12 ticks loss. He would also move stops and then get stopped out for a worse loser.

With all this said and done I think Jason has clearly been a legit trader and he does know what he is doing....He has a system with the levels he plays, computed form his own algorithms, and some how when a level is hit he says "right now its definitely going back to the level xxx" and this seemed to work 50/50 from my small window into the room. He had a system which did seem more logical and based on levels rather than just being an indicator strategy. His read of the DOM was spot on actually, that is without question.

I dont think he is a scam, but at $500 a month, thats the most expensive room I have been in so far and I could not justify it. Apparently on the days when I lost, he still ended up +XXX ticks. The problem for me is he would put a single lot on at some point, and get 10 ticks say, and then those ticks are added to the end result thats published. Its not a robust enough metric to work out if you could sustain yourself following his method, especially if most of the ticks were always with a 1 lot after the 2 lots get stopped out. I could also be doing the method an injustice and thats not my intention - I am hopefully just sharing what I took away from the experience.

Happy to answer questions about this.

Nick.

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 PandaWarrior 
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ptpatrader View Post
I wanted to post this because I notice Cloudy had commented and I am not sure this is the same live room that he is referring too. I sat in with the Oil Trading Group this week (oiltradinggroup.com), and gave it as good of a shot as I could. I was interested in the group because they look legit, and I had been receiving emails citing "+422 Ticks...." and "+341 Ticks..." and my greed sensor kicked in and I thought I would give them a go. However having fallen in love with the Jigsaw DOM, and say they use it, I was even more interested to check them out.

They do not trade etfs or options. They trade CL and ES only. The main guy is called Jason - I dont know his last name. The sales side of the outfit is David Hamman, whom I spoke with. He seemed legit, though he refuted all other types of futures trading over CL, and tried to tell me it was easier to trade than the treasuries. I tried to highlight in the call that surely the volatility might not be everyone surely and he didnt disagree or agree; it felt a little salesy/pushy but could have been the fact he doesnt trade and doesnt know.

In the trading room Jason comes in at 7:45, gives a rundown of what he expects and then you're off to the races at 8AM CST when the pit opens. His first trade of the day is an opening range play (I have never traded opening ranges due to the obvious gambling aspect to it). He often goes for 10 ticks profit with a 12 tick stop.

I am a large-lot trader and it was impossible to make any money. Jason goes for close targets with three lots and then lets a single runner run - this week most runners got stopped out and a lot of the main trades did too. I found it manic. On Thursday I was down $6000 within the first 5 minutes trading 10 lots. Trade after trade failed. As it got manic I would realize Jason had now got short or long the ES or the CL while I was still trying to understand what was going on. Sometimes he would just say "I'm shorting here at 95's" and by the time I looked at that in the DOM price had already dropped and I couldnt get in. When it got manic it looked like he was just looking to take any old trade.

I must highlight I didnt pay for his course so I dont know his method. I would say if you dont already have a pre-conceived notion of price action and how to get in, you might fare better. For myself when he was saying short I was thinking long and vice versa. In the end of Friday I made back $7000 on the sim account myself, shutting it down at negative $11k.

For me the small number of contracts meant that the way he scaled in and out was not conducive for me. He would say his first target is 10 ticks but then it would come to 5 ticks with a 1 lot runner that then lost. Or he would put on the trade and then let it stop out for 12 ticks loss. He would also move stops and then get stopped out for a worse loser.

With all this said and done I think Jason has clearly been a legit trader and he does know what he is doing....He has a system with the levels he plays, computed form his own algorithms, and some how when a level is hit he says "right now its definitely going back to the level xxx" and this seemed to work 50/50 from my small window into the room. He had a system which did seem more logical and based on levels rather than just being an indicator strategy. His read of the DOM was spot on actually, that is without question.

I dont think he is a scam, but at $500 a month, thats the most expensive room I have been in so far and I could not justify it. Apparently on the days when I lost, he still ended up +XXX ticks. The problem for me is he would put a single lot on at some point, and get 10 ticks say, and then those ticks are added to the end result thats published. Its not a robust enough metric to work out if you could sustain yourself following his method, especially if most of the ticks were always with a 1 lot after the 2 lots get stopped out. I could also be doing the method an injustice and thats not my intention - I am hopefully just sharing what I took away from the experience.

Happy to answer questions about this.

Nick.

I guess my question is pretty obvious, if you are a large lot trader, why are you looking at trading rooms?

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 ptpatrader 
Chicago, Illinois, United States
 
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PandaWarrior View Post
I guess my question is pretty obvious, if you are a large lot trader, why are you looking at trading rooms?

Good question. When I say I am large lot (thanks for pulling me up in that), I mean thats where/what I desire to be dojng due to having the bank roll, once I "get there". Besides being lonely trading in my office, the desire was to find somewhere that might facilitate my needs. And yes, I dont have the wisdom or experience of yourself to be safely trading large lots right now. My point about my review was that I cannot see how the method would scale up if you were a large lot; I should have been clearer.

Nick.

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 PandaWarrior 
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ptpatrader View Post
Good question. When I say I am large lot (thanks for pulling me up in that), I mean thats where/what I desire to be dojng due to having the bank roll, once I "get there". Besides being lonely trading in my office, the desire was to find somewhere that might facilitate my needs. And yes, I dont have the wisdom or experience of yourself to be safely trading large lots right now. My point about my review was that I cannot see how the method would scale up if you were a large lot; I should have been clearer.

Nick.

I'm not a large lot trader either....and like you, I want to be but unlike you, I need to build up to it as I do not have a large bankroll to allow this....working on it though...

However, CL has more than enough liquidity to fill 10-50 lots except at the very extreme edges....where sometimes you will see 1-5 lots fill and no more at least at that time.....the rest of the time, 10-50 lots should be no problem.....

I do find it MUCH easier to trade larger size....scaling in and out of a position makes a lot more sense than all in all out from an emotional standpoint....all in all out is mathematically superior but often times those trades get closed out before they have a chance to run their full course....scaling in and our allows a trader to manage this process a bit better....

And for that purpose, trades of 5-20 lots makes a lot of sense for retail traders.....if you have the bankroll that is.......

Good luck....

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 ptpatrader 
Chicago, Illinois, United States
 
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PandaWarrior View Post
I'm not a large lot trader either....and like you, I want to be but unlike you, I need to build up to it as I do not have a large bankroll to allow this....working on it though...

However, CL has more than enough liquidity to fill 10-50 lots except at the very extreme edges....where sometimes you will see 1-5 lots fill and no more at least at that time.....the rest of the time, 10-50 lots should be no problem.....

I do find it MUCH easier to trade larger size....scaling in and out of a position makes a lot more sense than all in all out from an emotional standpoint....all in all out is mathematically superior but often times those trades get closed out before they have a chance to run their full course....scaling in and our allows a trader to manage this process a bit better....

And for that purpose, trades of 5-20 lots makes a lot of sense for retail traders.....if you have the bankroll that is.......

Good luck....

Right understood. Yes your points marry up with what I have been experiencing. To the point about scaling in and out, scaling in/out psychologically works well if you get chance to scale out. Actually in this case Jason is all in and then scales out. The issue then was taking 12 tick losses on the full 3 lots, but then when it went in his favor only taking a 10 lot first target on 2 and then getting stopped out on the second. To be fair to Jason his technique might work, and I tried diligently to trade with him but increasing the size but the losses mounted up very quickly and I often hit my limit very quickly. Trading smaller lots, such as 5, and being all in and out might have been a better approach on my side, and I hold myself accountable for perhaps faltering with that respect.

I think Jason is legit, but if you have preconceived/ingrained ideas about how to read whats going on, taking the leap of faith after consecutive losses is hard; well it was for me, thats all I can say to be honest.

And rightly or wrongly, my motivation from the trading has been to be done as quickly as possible in the mornings, and trading large lots with nice moves, once the risk/probabilities is all inline seems like the right approach with the money. I would say my own read on price action, inline with using the Jigsaw DOM would allow me to achieve those goals; no need to complicate it....in my defense, the reason for also looking at a room, which I did mention briefly, is to also deal with the loneliness aspect. That said, I may have solved that with sanglucci.com.

Thanks again,

Nick.

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 estrade 
Austin/TX
 
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What is the latest here...

I tried the day,, and I guess it was the losing day. But I keep getting hammered with emails how they have 7 winning days and 400 ticks each week of profit ($4000/wk!). Consistently!

is this the CL room that everyone is in?
My guess is that the software is worth nothing without the guy in the room trading... I'm not sure of costs?

Anyone with the latest? Any members opinions?

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 ptpatrader 
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estrade View Post
What is the latest here...

I tried the day,, and I guess it was the losing day. But I keep getting hammered with emails how they have 7 winning days and 400 ticks each week of profit ($4000/wk!). Consistently!

is this the CL room that everyone is in?
My guess is that the software is worth nothing without the guy in the room trading... I'm not sure of costs?

Anyone with the latest? Any members opinions?

ESTrade-

I still get those emails. My conclusion is on the days where price just trends off the pit open, given his first trade is an OR trade, they have a good chance of winning on those days. My experience was when it chops around you have no chance with how they trade - my personal opinion only. I believe this is the most expensive room I have come across thus far at $500 a month last I saw. What is not made clear is how those ticks are achieved, sometimes through scaling in sometimes not. I guess thats why a trial is needed.

Maybe ask for a weeks trial - I spoke to some guy there and he was pretty helpful. He tried to convince me there was no other instrument better to trade which put me off too, but it wasnt too painful.

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 Klausi 
Germany
 
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futurestrader1 View Post
Oil Trading Group has a live OIL trading room....Oil is a crazy market to trade. Can anyone comment here or just another scam? Has a free trial at least.

It is a really qualified and serious group trading succesfull

Klausi

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 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Sometime mid-Sept, I signed up for the Oil Trading Group (OTG) webinar which was focused on the OTG Market Maker Levels indicator. The OTG Market Maker levels are time-based, modified Fibonacci, support & resistance levels that are used quite extensively in the OTG trading room. Other S&R levels are also used in conjunction with these levels in the room. The webinar, among other things, included this indicator and the JigSaw price ladder. Also included a 3-month membership to the OTG trading room (I have since signed up for a 6-month membership, which included all OTG indicators as well, & I will most probably sign up for the lifetime membership program).

After the webinar, I 'shadow' traded Jason, the head trader/owner of the OTG, for an entire month on 'simulator' mode. Also did back testing on several of the OTG indicators during that time. Results from the first month was quite impressive & profitable, albeit with play money only.

I went to live money trading in November and have been on the right side of my trades, with Jason's guidance (i.e. shadow trading) approximately 70% of the time.

Room opens promptly @ 8:45 a.m. daily. Jason takes the 15 minutes prior to pit open to provide a detailed briefing on market structure & his expectations for the day. Room trades the CL & ES. I only trade the CL.

Shadow trading with Jason is not for the faint-hearted, however, I must warn. Entering into losing trades is part of the game, unfortunately, and there would be days when several losing trades in a row could occur. It is not uncommon for some traders to be gun-shy after a few losing trades and may stop trading altogether, as i have done as well. Then the runner trade materializes and one could be left in the dust...

I am a 3-contract trader, which is what Jason trades on most initial entries. 1st & 2nd targets vary, but usually 10-15 ticks for target 1 & 20-25 ticks for target 2, not always. Contracts added on runners. Jason's targets are based the the levels I mentioned above and 75 to >100 tick trades are not uncommon.

if one desires to get a look & feel of what goes on in the room, I suggest you view the market update videos on the OTG site and/or sign up for the free room trial offer.

Just FYI, I am merely a paying member of the OTG and am providing my experiences here with the room thus far (3 months now with group).


Regards, PilotTrader


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 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
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PilotTrader View Post
Sometime mid-Sept, I signed up for the Oil Trading Group (OTG) webinar which was focused on the OTG Market Maker Levels indicator. The OTG Market Maker levels are time-based, modified Fibonacci, support & resistance levels that are used quite extensively in the OTG trading room. Other S&R levels are also used in conjunction with these levels in the room. The webinar, among other things, included this indicator and the JigSaw price ladder. Also included a 3-month membership to the OTG trading room (I have since signed up for a 6-month membership, which included all OTG indicators as well, & I will most probably sign up for the lifetime membership program).

After the webinar, I 'shadow' traded Jason, the head trader/owner of the OTG, for an entire month on 'simulator' mode. Also did back testing on several of the OTG indicators during that time. Results from the first month was quite impressive & profitable, albeit with play money only.

I went to live money trading in November and have been on the right side of my trades, with Jason's guidance (i.e. shadow trading) approximately 70% of the time.

Room opens promptly @ 8:45 a.m. daily. Jason takes the 15 minutes prior to pit open to provide a detailed briefing on market structure & his expectations for the day. Room trades the CL & ES. I only trade the CL.

Shadow trading with Jason is not for the faint-hearted, however, I must warn. Entering into losing trades is part of the game, unfortunately, and there would be days when several losing trades in a row could occur. It is not uncommon for some traders to be gun-shy after a few losing trades and may stop trading altogether, as i have done as well. Then the runner trade materializes and one could be left in the dust...

I am a 3-contract trader, which is what Jason trades on most initial entries. 1st & 2nd targets vary, but usually 10-15 ticks for target 1 & 20-25 ticks for target 2, not always. Contracts added on runners. Jason's targets are based the the levels I mentioned above and 75 to >100 tick trades are not uncommon.

if one desires to get a look & feel of what goes on in the room, I suggest you view the market update videos on the OTG site and/or sign up for the free room trial offer.

Just FYI, I am merely a paying member of the OTG and am providing my experiences here with the room thus far (3 months now with group).


Regards, PilotTrader



UPDATE:

For the benefit, and full disclosure, to futures.io (formerly BMT) members who read my post above, I would like to update my views & sentiments with regard to the Oil Trading Group trade room. Unfortunately, I am now convinced that the trading style & methods used in the room does not conform to my trading requirements. Multiple trades are often taken, IMHO, simply based on 'feel' and does not conform to any trade set-ups that were taught in the educational materials provided by the site. As a result, I experienced huge consecutive losses whenever I was in the room, not necessarily consecutive days, since I do not generally trade every day. On a few of these losing days, the lead trader would simply state that he has reached his loss limit and simply close the room down. So here I am, with a few thousand dollars of stopped trades, trade room door simply closed and hoping tomorrow would be a better day.

I apologize for what some may consider positive, maybe even glowing, endorsement of the room in my original post. At the time I posted, that was my honest assessment. Current view I have now is a complete 180-deg reversal and I will no longer participate in the room nor extend my membership.

Regards,
PilotTrader

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xylem
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I have seen the way he trades.
He trades manically and off the cuff which imo is how a good trader should trade.

Following that as a noob is not very good though.

Im not sure on his methods or techniques so I dont know how much you will learn.

He is still on a 3 lot and when I asked him to show me his PnL screen he wouldnt.
That makes me think he is not a crazy impressive trader.

But I dont think its a scam and Id say he could make a living trading Oil Based on what ive seen.
Seemed like a nice guy and decent trader.

Would I pay $500 /Mo for it?
If I was rich, probably.

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 install251 
Sydney, Australia
 
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Just went in for a look at how they trade the open. It's a pretty wild ride. Especially on the opening trades they take. Not sure it's for me but I'll give another go tomorrow. I really would like to find a trading room though. It gets pretty boring trading on your own. Feel a bit like goldilocks- this room is too fast, the treasuries rooms are too slow (seriously I don't even know how they have anything to talk about at all...) need one that's just right...

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 COTtrader 
Michigan, Jackson
 
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Ran 13 months with Jason's OTG in 2014-2015. The greatest discovery was personal: I am not a positional trader: Jason is a positional trader. In pre-market, Jason determines probable CL market direction prior to market open. When CL hits his pre-determined market level after open, he "steps in front of the proverbial bus." Using a 10-15 tick SL, he will take profit on the first contract at 10 ticks and let the remaining contracts run. More importantly, he is patient and holds trades for large targets even while watching order flow. When the market moves in his favor, Jason will add contracts incrementally. Positional traders can ride 100+ tick moves because they are willing to enter the market at key levels.
I am not a positional trader, so I couldn't 'stay in the kitchen' while he cooked the numbers. He has since refined his system and trains traders to trade with Top Step now, I think. He is an impressive trader to watch and listen to. If one can handle the being a positional trader, then Jason's style of trade is to be learned. When he wins, he wins big.
All in all, Jason is the real deal. I appreciated his overall confidence and support of his traders.

Ken
"COTtrader"

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  #18 (permalink)
 aircal 
Keller, TX USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Trading: YM, ES, CL
 
Posts: 42 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 38 received

I get emails for free trials to their room. Each time I visit, Jason gets destroyed. Maybe it balances out in the end, but I know I could never trade a system with so many losses.

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  #19 (permalink)
 Blash 
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Posts: 2,287 since Nov 2011
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aircal View Post
I get emails for free trials to their room. Each time I visit, Jason gets destroyed. Maybe it balances out in the end, but I know I could never trade a system with so many losses.



I must say I've never been a fan or seen great value in trade room. I have been in 3 over the last 6 years. I feel it's time and money better spent finding a mentor over email or Skype very informal. Obtain some education recommendations and learn. Read some good books. Have an open mind and be willing to look at the world differently than the masses. Be somebody the worlds need more of, would welcome more of.

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #20 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, ninjatrader, tradestation, fxcm
Trading: Es forex
 
Posts: 116 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 128 given, 64 received


COTtrader View Post
Ran 13 months with Jason's OTG in 2014-2015. The greatest discovery was personal: I am not a positional trader: Jason is a positional trader. In pre-market, Jason determines probable CL market direction prior to market open. When CL hits his pre-determined market level after open, he "steps in front of the proverbial bus." Using a 10-15 tick SL, he will take profit on the first contract at 10 ticks and let the remaining contracts run. More importantly, he is patient and holds trades for large targets even while watching order flow. When the market moves in his favor, Jason will add contracts incrementally. Positional traders can ride 100+ tick moves because they are willing to enter the market at key levels.
I am not a positional trader, so I couldn't 'stay in the kitchen' while he cooked the numbers. He has since refined his system and trains traders to trade with Top Step now, I think. He is an impressive trader to watch and listen to. If one can handle the being a positional trader, then Jason's style of trade is to be learned. When he wins, he wins big.
All in all, Jason is the real deal. I appreciated his overall confidence and support of his traders.

Ken
"COTtrader"

ask to see his REAL account record, see how far you get. These sim traders don't impress me.

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  #21 (permalink)
 COTtrader 
Michigan, Jackson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT and TS
Broker: NT Continuum
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 857 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 389 given, 552 received


Forexoil View Post
ask to see his REAL account record, see how far you get. These sim traders don't impress me.

@Forexoil - the 'proof is in the puddin' -- I've been there - All live trades- I learned a good deal in almost 13 months of observation and trading.

Read review here if so inclined:

Oil Trading Group ***Updated Review*** - Trading Schools.Org

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  #22 (permalink)
 Blash 
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Forexoil View Post
ask to see his REAL account record, see how far you get. These sim traders don't impress me.


COTtrader View Post
@Forexoil - the 'proof is in the puddin' -- I've been there - All live trades- I learned a good deal in almost 13 months of observation and trading.

Read review here if so inclined:

Oil Trading Group ***Updated Review*** - Trading Schools.Org

This business, as I see it, is so intensely personal each and all must bravely forge their own path. And no two, are or can ever be, exactly the same. Gratitude for the myriad of ways........

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #23 (permalink)
 Randy Dotson 
Eufaula, OK, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts
Trading: if it moves, i trade it
 
Posts: 15 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 10 given, 20 received

I got caught up in all the hype and wasted $2,500 for a lifetime membership. There is no consistency here. I have seen very nice days where Jason caught a $2,500 winner and then lost $2,800 the very next day. The hype is great and not a lie. He gets the 144 tick trade, but what isn't said is that the trade brought him positive on the day. Overcoming -120 ticks is great, but this is not the norm here or anywhere for that matter.

Jason goes on and on about how great his levels are and that no one has better levels. BS. If he had the levels I develop, he would throw the crap he uses out the window.

He is a trader who isn't afraid to mix it up, but I firmly believe that without suckers like me funding his account, he wouldn't be trading. He doesn't know anything about the warning signs of trading. For example, I seen him put this trade on and I called this to his attention. CL had spent 1 1/2 hours at the IB low and was unable to break it and extend a 75 tick IB range. Jason had a "level" about 5 ticks above the IB and he had been talking all morning about how much he wanted to short that level and how it had just missed it at the open. So he stood in front of it and shorted. When I reminded him of the ATR of 160ish ticks and the fact that it had just spent all that time and couldn't take the low, his response was that he was only expecting 125 tick range that day.

Now, if there is anyone reading this that would put that trade on, for god's sake do not trade CL with real money. You do not know what you are doing. And these types of trades are the reason I say the whole deal is a waste of money. Is it for real? Yes. Will it teach you sound fundamentals that you can use to make a living trading? I do not think so and until someone shows me proof of live trading account profitability using this system, I will continue to say no.

The results of this one ignorant trade speak for themselves. By the time the platform Jason was using executed his strategy for the trade, CL was already 17 ticks past his stop and his stop order was rejected. I believe he got out with around a 30 tick loss per contract.

It's one thing to believe a level setting like this one was could provide resistance. And watching to see if there were signs of rejection. But to stand in front of it? Don't tell me you are a professional trader and then put that trade on. Don't tell me about teaching others and then say that is the way to trade CL. Don't run a room and put this trade on in front of students and then say "it is what it is".

I am not a professional trader, although I'd like to be. But I guarantee you, I may look at this trade an hour later, scratch my head and say would you look at that. But I don't care if that trade would have worked for 400 ticks, I would never put that trade on. And if that trade ever works, it's like a blind hog finding an acorn.

This is just like 99.9% of the trading rooms. It's ran by a retail trader. And the very best way to utilize these rooms is to watch for set ups against what they are looking for, because 90% of the time retail is dead wrong.

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  #24 (permalink)
 SatchFan 
Jefferson City, Missouri
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: CL ES
 
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Posts: 223 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 329 given, 202 received

I did a 3 day trial just for sh*ts and grins about 2 months ago. I had the same perception. He has his levels, which is great, but he has no concept of "Context" using the price action and market structure. 2 days was all I needed. Didn't go back for the 3rd. Got an email on the 2nd evening, clicked "unsubscribe" and haven't thought about it since until I saw this thread. BIG thumbs down for me...

Funny, I saw him do basically the same thing you did. He shorted 3 times in a row on crude, fading a day that cl went up over 150 ticks. He kept saying, "I'm going to stay stubborn here, I've got my levels". It's been my experience that being stubborn rarely pays. And when it does, it's just enforcing a bad habit.
Thanks, but No Thanks...


Randy Dotson View Post
I got caught up in all the hype and wasted $2,500 for a lifetime membership. There is no consistency here. I have seen very nice days where Jason caught a $2,500 winner and then lost $2,800 the very next day. The hype is great and not a lie. He gets the 144 tick trade, but what isn't said is that the trade brought him positive on the day. Overcoming -120 ticks is great, but this is not the norm here or anywhere for that matter.

Jason goes on and on about how great his levels are and that no one has better levels. BS. If he had the levels I develop, he would throw the crap he uses out the window.

He is a trader who isn't afraid to mix it up, but I firmly believe that without suckers like me funding his account, he wouldn't be trading. He doesn't know anything about the warning signs of trading. For example, I seen him put this trade on and I called this to his attention. CL had spent 1 1/2 hours at the IB low and was unable to break it and extend a 75 tick IB range. Jason had a "level" about 5 ticks above the IB and he had been talking all morning about how much he wanted to short that level and how it had just missed it at the open. So he stood in front of it and shorted. When I reminded him of the ATR of 160ish ticks and the fact that it had just spent all that time and couldn't take the low, his response was that he was only expecting 125 tick range that day.

Now, if there is anyone reading this that would put that trade on, for god's sake do not trade CL with real money. You do not know what you are doing. And these types of trades are the reason I say the whole deal is a waste of money. Is it for real? Yes. Will it teach you sound fundamentals that you can use to make a living trading? I do not think so and until someone shows me proof of live trading account profitability using this system, I will continue to say no.

The results of this one ignorant trade speak for themselves. By the time the platform Jason was using executed his strategy for the trade, CL was already 17 ticks past his stop and his stop order was rejected. I believe he got out with around a 30 tick loss per contract.

It's one thing to believe a level setting like this one was could provide resistance. And watching to see if there were signs of rejection. But to stand in front of it? Don't tell me you are a professional trader and then put that trade on. Don't tell me about teaching others and then say that is the way to trade CL. Don't run a room and put this trade on in front of students and then say "it is what it is".

I am not a professional trader, although I'd like to be. But I guarantee you, I may look at this trade an hour later, scratch my head and say would you look at that. But I don't care if that trade would have worked for 400 ticks, I would never put that trade on. And if that trade ever works, it's like a blind hog finding an acorn.

This is just like 99.9% of the trading rooms. It's ran by a retail trader. And the very best way to utilize these rooms is to watch for set ups against what they are looking for, because 90% of the time retail is dead wrong.


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  #25 (permalink)
 sundevil 
Durham, NC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: GC
 
Posts: 10 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 7 received


SatchFan View Post
I did a 3 day trial just for sh*ts and grins about 2 months ago. I had the same perception. He has his levels, which is great, but he has no concept of "Context" using the price action and market structure. 2 days was all I needed. Didn't go back for the 3rd. Got an email on the 2nd evening, clicked "unsubscribe" and haven't thought about it since until I saw this thread. BIG thumbs down for me...

Funny, I saw him do basically the same thing you did. He shorted 3 times in a row on crude, fading a day that cl went up over 150 ticks. He kept saying, "I'm going to stay stubborn here, I've got my levels". It's been my experience that being stubborn rarely pays. And when it does, it's just enforcing a bad habit.
Thanks, but No Thanks...

I've also watched them trade. It was a hot mess that went from -1200 to +300 then back to -500. Risk management is not something they take seriously.

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  #26 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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Posts: 669 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 155 given, 398 received


Randy Dotson View Post
I got caught up in all the hype and wasted $2,500 for a lifetime membership. There is no consistency here. I have seen very nice days where Jason caught a $2,500 winner and then lost $2,800 the very next day. The hype is great and not a lie. He gets the 144 tick trade, but what isn't said is that the trade brought him positive on the day. Overcoming -120 ticks is great, but this is not the norm here or anywhere for that matter.

Jason goes on and on about how great his levels are and that no one has better levels. BS. If he had the levels I develop, he would throw the crap he uses out the window.

He is a trader who isn't afraid to mix it up, but I firmly believe that without suckers like me funding his account, he wouldn't be trading. He doesn't know anything about the warning signs of trading. For example, I seen him put this trade on and I called this to his attention. CL had spent 1 1/2 hours at the IB low and was unable to break it and extend a 75 tick IB range. Jason had a "level" about 5 ticks above the IB and he had been talking all morning about how much he wanted to short that level and how it had just missed it at the open. So he stood in front of it and shorted. When I reminded him of the ATR of 160ish ticks and the fact that it had just spent all that time and couldn't take the low, his response was that he was only expecting 125 tick range that day.

Now, if there is anyone reading this that would put that trade on, for god's sake do not trade CL with real money. You do not know what you are doing. And these types of trades are the reason I say the whole deal is a waste of money. Is it for real? Yes. Will it teach you sound fundamentals that you can use to make a living trading? I do not think so and until someone shows me proof of live trading account profitability using this system, I will continue to say no.

The results of this one ignorant trade speak for themselves. By the time the platform Jason was using executed his strategy for the trade, CL was already 17 ticks past his stop and his stop order was rejected. I believe he got out with around a 30 tick loss per contract.

It's one thing to believe a level setting like this one was could provide resistance. And watching to see if there were signs of rejection. But to stand in front of it? Don't tell me you are a professional trader and then put that trade on. Don't tell me about teaching others and then say that is the way to trade CL. Don't run a room and put this trade on in front of students and then say "it is what it is".

I am not a professional trader, although I'd like to be. But I guarantee you, I may look at this trade an hour later, scratch my head and say would you look at that. But I don't care if that trade would have worked for 400 ticks, I would never put that trade on. And if that trade ever works, it's like a blind hog finding an acorn.

This is just like 99.9% of the trading rooms. It's ran by a retail trader. And the very best way to utilize these rooms is to watch for set ups against what they are looking for, because 90% of the time retail is dead wrong.

if you think he is bad...sample some other rooms. Jason does like to roll the dice ..they call that trading..he does let it all hang out..i would say he can trade, he is not for the faint of heart.. i could not handle it too.

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  #27 (permalink)
 Blash 
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Posts: 2,287 since Nov 2011
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forgiven View Post
if you think he is bad...sample some other rooms. Jason does like to roll the dice ..they call that trading..he does let it all hang out..i would say he can trade, he is not for the faint of heart.. i could not handle it too.



IMHO a trade room could be used like this:

After considerable study (be it reading books or an education source of some kind ie mentor course etc) in a "particular trading method", considerable meaning many weeks and hundreds of hours of screen time with great zeal, find a practitioner of this method and learn from them the live details of this method and then execute it yourself having them help correct any errors. After this, leave the room and operate by yourself or among a group of like minded traders over Skype or here in FIO or something else equivalent.

What I feel is worthless is joining a trade room to learn a methodology without having intense study before hand.

An analogy would be wanting to learn the piano. Having only poked around on it with no seriousness, join a live teaching song playing group/band (notice this is a fantasy and fictitious, not existing because it would never work) where the leader calls out the notes/piano keys to be pressed in order to play the song. Sounds crazy. But, it's basically what most involved with a trade room do. It's what I did 7 years ago. Simply does not and can not, work.

Ron


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...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #28 (permalink)
 KelvinKing 
Johor Bahru, Malaysia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage, Continuum
Trading: FESX, FGBL
 
Posts: 87 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 21 given, 145 received

Firstly, a 2 day trial is way too short to tell anything about the trader or his profitability.

During my 2 day trial, he took loss after loss on both the ES and CL. I guess the 100 tick trade came on the 3rd day, but I wouldn't know because that was the end of my trial.

In a way, they are simply doing themselves an injustice by having such a short trial period.

On the second day, some guy called Dave tried to convince me to sign up for their lifetime package which costs $1999. I just couldn't see any version of me doing that having spent only 2 days in the room. I tried to negotiate for a longer trial period (I was even willing to pay for it), but it became pretty clear to me that it was basically sign up or get out. That left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.

Thus, I have no choice but to conclude that it's no different from any of the other 99.8% of the trading rooms out there, trying to get desperate traders to subscribe by posting clips of their occasional 100 tick trades. In other words, it's just a business.

Cheers!

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  #29 (permalink)
 cshrum 
nashville, tn
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja 8
Trading: es
 
Posts: 94 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 19 received

Has anyone been able to replicate these indicators?

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  #30 (permalink)
 wxsim1 
Miami, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 126 since May 2013
Thanks: 274 given, 70 received

Jason at OTG is a sim trader. Stay away. He is basically Break Even at best and changing systems every few months.

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  #31 (permalink)
 lastmango 
North Palm Beach, FL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: AMP-CQG
Trading: CL ES NQ
 
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Thanks: 15 given, 12 received


cshrum View Post
Has anyone been able to replicate these indicators?

I found the OTG via Google search and watched some of his videos. I then joined the OTG for two free days recently because I was interested in his "market maker levels" and how those were used during live trading. I saw him take losses both days while I was trading on sim and was up 750 on day 1 and 800+ on day 2. For the record, I do a hell of a lot better on sim than live!

I was drawn to the room specifically because of the way he named the indicators as "market maker levels." More on that in a moment.

In reality, the indicators are custom pivot points. I was not impressed with the indicators as they were represented in the live room. He would trade near the level, not at it, and the lack of precision simply baffled me.

I have nothing against trading 3 contracts for 5 ticks, as long as you can do it repeatedly at rotations. I didn't see him use the levels effectively. But he sure does love to talk!

You may be able to replicate them yourself using a pivot point formula adjusted for ADR 10 and 20, which I believe he uses. Then, adjust this for the opening range and again for pit close. I think he uses one other time during RTH. Good luck!

I spent some time trying to reverse engineer his indicators and they came very close (but a few ticks off) to my own version of market maker levels. I use the spec initial margin for a futures contract, converted into ticks to provide the max range, then divided into sub-ranges that can be easily mapped on a chart.

For now, I'll stick with my own pivots as I know they work better than whatever formula he's using.

Best,
LM

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  #32 (permalink)
 cshrum 
nashville, tn
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja 8
Trading: es
 
Posts: 94 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 19 received


lastmango View Post
I found the OTG via Google search and watched some of his videos. I then joined the OTG for two free days recently because I was interested in his "market maker levels" and how those were used during live trading. I saw him take losses both days while I was trading on sim and was up 750 on day 1 and 800+ on day 2. For the record, I do a hell of a lot better on sim than live!

I was drawn to the room specifically because of the way he named the indicators as "market maker levels." More on that in a moment.

In reality, the indicators are custom pivot points. I was not impressed with the indicators as they were represented in the live room. He would trade near the level, not at it, and the lack of precision simply baffled me.

I have nothing against trading 3 contracts for 5 ticks, as long as you can do it repeatedly at rotations. I didn't see him use the levels effectively. But he sure does love to talk!

You may be able to replicate them yourself using a pivot point formula adjusted for ADR 10 and 20, which I believe he uses. Then, adjust this for the opening range and again for pit close. I think he uses one other time during RTH. Good luck!

I spent some time trying to reverse engineer his indicators and they came very close (but a few ticks off) to my own version of market maker levels. I use the spec initial margin for a futures contract, converted into ticks to provide the max range, then divided into sub-ranges that can be easily mapped on a chart.

For now, I'll stick with my own pivots as I know they work better than whatever formula he's using.

Best,
LM

Would you share some of your levels for crude today... You don't have to give out the formula.. Just curious as to their values... Will you become a member there?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #33 (permalink)
 lastmango 
North Palm Beach, FL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: AMP-CQG
Trading: CL ES NQ
 
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Thanks: 15 given, 12 received


cshrum View Post
Would you share some of your levels for crude today... You don't have to give out the formula.. Just curious as to their values... Will you become a member there?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Will I become a member there? Ahh, no. I do not feel OTG is providing a valuable service.

My levels are a work in progress. Some days I nail it, other days I'm a few ticks off. When they are dialed in I can trade with high confidence.

Let's see if I can post an image... here's an example from a few days ago: https://www.tradingview.com/x/3Kng9m2i/

Here's a current one where I'm adding a secondary set. Unfortunately this becomes cluttered.


Edited to add this "after" image that shows how the levels held overnight (because anybody could draw levels on a past chart):

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  #34 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
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lastmango View Post
I was drawn to the room specifically because of the way he named the indicators as "market maker levels."

As you found, I bet they are called "Market Maker Levels" because it sounds "Pro" and is more likely to attract newbies looking for the 'secret information' and chart settings that the successful traders all use. Having pivot levels on his chart similar to all the other slightly different formula pivot levels doesn't sound quite so much like you're getting the winning inside information/Holy Grail.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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  #35 (permalink)
 jmh13 
Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Ninja
Trading: DC
 
Posts: 262 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 17 given, 126 received

Was in the room a few times and they are high pressure and if you don't commit they lock you out really fast.

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  #36 (permalink)
 cshrum 
nashville, tn
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja 8
Trading: es
 
Posts: 94 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 19 received


lastmango View Post
Will I become a member there? Ahh, no. I do not feel OTG is providing a valuable service.

My levels are a work in progress. Some days I nail it, other days I'm a few ticks off. When they are dialed in I can trade with high confidence.

Let's see if I can post an image... here's an example from a few days ago: https://www.tradingview.com/x/3Kng9m2i/

Here's a current one where I'm adding a secondary set. Unfortunately this becomes cluttered.


Edited to add this "after" image that shows how the levels held overnight (because anybody could draw levels on a past chart):

Are you using volume profile to define levels?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #37 (permalink)
 lastmango 
North Palm Beach, FL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: AMP-CQG
Trading: CL ES NQ
 
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Posts: 20 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 15 given, 12 received

VP is part of the analysis.

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  #38 (permalink)
 Klausi 
Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: CL,GC,6E
 
Posts: 53 since Jan 2010
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jmh13 View Post
Was in the room a few times and they are high pressure and if you don't commit they lock you out really fast.

Don't waste your time with them

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  #39 (permalink)
 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, NT8
Trading: NQ, CL, GC, NG, HG
 
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Posts: 155 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 90 given, 351 received


Klausi View Post
Don't waste your time with them

I concur.

Watch Dr. Dean's latest video on Jason and his room, for what it's worth:



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  #40 (permalink)
 deanza 
White River South Africa
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

While I agree his trading is extremely erratic and impossible to replicate , I have to question this Dr Handley's reviews as well. He also seems to be just another person selling his own story. Who are the top 10 trading rooms that claims to have identified ? Are they all associates of his ?

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  #41 (permalink)
 PilotTrader 
New Brunswick NJ/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, NT8
Trading: NQ, CL, GC, NG, HG
 
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Posts: 155 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 90 given, 351 received


deanza View Post
While I agree his trading is extremely erratic and impossible to replicate , I have to question this Dr Handley's reviews as well. He also seems to be just another person selling his own story. Who are the top 10 trading rooms that claims to have identified ? Are they all associates of his ?


You can read what others think and have to say of Dr. Handley in another FIO thread here:
Personally, IMHO, I believe he is a decent individual. I have spoken to him personally over the phone a few times in the past. Others think otherwise, however. And no, I don't have any business and/or family ties with the good doctor. I have, however, been to a few of his rooms he recommends/endorse, including one that he hosts himself. All the rooms that I tried did not jive with my trading style, so, I no longer participate in any of the rooms.

Blue skies,
PilotTrader

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  #42 (permalink)
 jmh13 
Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Ninja
Trading: DC
 
Posts: 262 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 17 given, 126 received

I was in the trial few times, I am NOT a paid member of his room. I find the trades he calls easy to duplicate. Most of the time they are called in advance, showing entry, stop and exit. The trades are from some type of pit trader levels with entry strategies. 3 bar stuff ect..I have taken the trades he calls and they work but they may be days of quite a few small stops.

If you trial a few time they get high pressure. and they want all kinds of info or you get da boot.
He does discount 500 dollars at times. He does have webinars for funded trader stuff which is all transparent. He does show trades on a DOM. Live account/ real $$ is questionable. He does show a log of all trades. He has a formula of profit 2 to 1 targets.
Is this room worth the $$ who knows. Try it and see.

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  #43 (permalink)
 mayazoro 
tucson
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts , Sceeto andTOS
Broker: AMP-Rithmic
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 24 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 34 received

Jason can not make money trading he win $1000 he loose a $1000 and that go on and on, so he make his money teaching and that go for 99 % of the trading rooms, his knowledge about trading is good but at the end he is not profitable, on a trending day he make money but on a range days he get kill, I was in his room for one year, the days he win he post a video and promote his room and on the day he was kill you will not see any video. If you can make money consistent trading why will you put up with all the teaching ? In other words, it's just a business. the business of teaching not trading

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  #44 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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Posts: 50,068 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,534 given, 98,489 received

Calling it a business is kind.

It's also known as a scam and fraud from someone who tells one non-stop lie after another.

P. S. The Illuminati are on to him. Won't be long now I'm sure...
mayazoro View Post
Jason can not make money trading he win $1000 he loose a $1000 and that go on and on, so he make his money teaching and that go for 99 % of the trading rooms, his knowledge about trading is good but at the end he is not profitable, on a trending day he make money but on a range days he get kill, I was in his room for one year, the days he win he post a video and promote his room and on the day he was kill you will not see any video. If you can make money consistent trading why will you put up with all the teaching ? In other words, it's just a business. the business of teaching not trading

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  #45 (permalink)
 trade888 
Vancouver + Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra
Trading: CL UB ES
 
Posts: 131 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 859 given, 110 received

Do not waste your money on this room.
He had 3 losing days in a row last week totaling about $4,300
So he closed the room Thursday and Friday.
Had a huge loser Monday of $3,600 and closed the room again today.
He has good days which he will post videos of how great he is; but he loses more than he wins.
Over the last year and a half or so I have kept track and while I missed a few days the total loss is $22,817.
I often trade opposite his position but he does get the winners here and there and is just too inconsistent.
I characterize him as a gun slinger.
If he gets lucky and wins he will quit after a win or two.
But not much skill given the total loss.

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  #46 (permalink)
 sparky 
Fort Myers, Fl
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AmpFutures/CQG
Trading: Tf
 
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Posts: 17 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 13 given, 54 received

Well, I learned one thing wasting my money with this guy. Check out the reviews in futures.io before you invest!! I had been out of trading for a while and tried the free offer to visit Jason's room. Silly me for not looking at this thread. Greed got the better of me.
I hit it at just the right time for him, and he had two very successful days in a row. That plus his TopStep Trader special I plunked down my $1200, figuring I would pass my step 2 combine (Topstep did not require step one passing for his special) in 10 days just matching his trades.
Please do not lecture me about how I am responsible for my own trades - I am well aware of that. I just got suckered by Jason and his gang. I was gonna match his trades while learning his system and make my modest goal every day.
My results of matching his trades -- blew a $50000 combine in a week -- then blew the free reset in another 10 days. I only used Jason's calls, none of my own. In the month and a half I have followed his room (mind you, not with real money or even more TopStep combine money), just having it in the background to see if he improved his calls, he has lost thousands of dollars. Jason might have one winning day a week. His training is pretty much useless, you sit in his room for ever listening to him drone on, at least 45 minutes after the room opens, then all of a sudden he makes a call on a retrace (and never after the trade has started moving in the right direction). After you are in a trade, you hear him using "Bookmap" to comment, making it sound like a horserace. He hardly ever trades multiple contracts and I have not seem him peal off contracts if he is in 2 contracts. His wins could be several hundred dollars on a one lot trade - like the $800 plus winner on Sep 8. Then he follows through with a day like Sep 9 losing MORE than he gained the day before.
He calls retrace trades, but just seems to pick entries out of the air. His training material is useless, brags about secret market maker levels (but does not seem to use them in trading) but he is great in sending out emails to you encouraging you to buy a stock picking program, a useless stock pattern program, or some other nonsense.
He blames his poor results on the summer trading doldrums. Yet today I got the email proclaiming how great his system is. He said summer was over and all will be well. I can guarantee you I will I will not get an email tomorrow showing how he gave back all of yesterdays gains on today's losers!!!

Save your money. Stay away from Jason and his gang. He says his room has a hundred in attendance, and everyone can see the chat log. In the month I attended, I only saw generic comments from a few different people. I was tempted to enter disparaging comments, but I figured it would not matter, probably wouldn't be seen and only raise my blood pressure.

BUYER BEWARE WITH THIS ROOM

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