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  #1 (permalink)
charleston,wv
 
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Looking at OrderFlowEdge.com and need to know if anyone has any experiances with them good/bad ?

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  #3 (permalink)
California
 
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These guys were using a diifferent name Trade 2 Live or the moderator broke off and started Order Flow Edge. A review on futures.io (formerly BMT).




I have attended some of the free trials and like some of what he does. The zones appear to be Demand and Supply

which you can learn from Sam Seiden. There are free videos that Sam has done on Demand and Supply(just Google name).

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  #4 (permalink)
London
 
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I've been trading with their approach now for 5 months and its very solid. The teaching is very straightforward and conceptually sound. Its not just a matter of "here's what you do" but a lot of discussion on "why you do it". The approach ends up changing not just your trading style but also the way you think about markets.

The chat room and live trade room is very active. A very good community has been built up to this point. Lots of discussions and members help each other out a lot. And this is important because the training isn't a matter of two weeks and you can now trade professionally ... its a process. It takes screen time to fully understand and refine your ability to look at the market via order flow. And having the support from other traders makes building that screen-time much easier and more pleasant.

If you wanted to learn more, you can always ask to speak to a current member and get their feedback over the phone / skype.

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  #5 (permalink)
fort lauderdale, fl
 
Experience: Intermediate
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On the positive side, the moderator does make money just about every day. The OFE team is also very dedicated to teaching its method to its members and has regular workshops for this purpose. Without a doubt, these guys have a solid method that seems to work for them and for some of their members (if you work it and buy into the method).

On the other hand, from my perspective, the method has very little to do with order flow (despite the name of the site) as most advanced traders define order flow. Rather than reading time and sales or the order book, what they are doing is reading cumulative delta and putting assumptions on the commitment of traders based upon the aggregate of the orders. While I have tried very hard to understand and buy into this method, my experience with reading cumulative delta is that major turning points in the market are evidenced by over-comittments of traders at the extremes. If you read cumulative delta as showing commitment of traders, this is misleading, since what it often shows is where committed traders get trapped and overwhelmed by passive resting limit orders which then take control of the market. This is a concept that Kam Dhadwar of L2ST has very clearly set forth in his methology.

OFE's order flow terminology is largely borrowed from Fulcrum Trader, with emphasis on buying and and shorting wholesale (rather than retail) which I always found to be a poor analogy, since price of an instrument is constantly changing and not fixed. Because the zones are dynamic (and based upon market profile levels), it is virtually impossible to back test this methodology. Technical traders may have a very hard time with this methodology. In addition, for the most part, members are on their own when it comes to picking entries and exits. While the moderator suggests different strategies for entry and exit, he lets each trader decide when and where to taken on the market. Emphasis is on the ES (S&PP 500) and although the moderator talks about swing trades in other markets, I have never seen any meaningful discussion or development of trades in any other markets.

Their motto is "we are order flow traders, first and foremost." While this may be true, without a doubt, selling new memberships is a huge part of their business, and 3 out of 5 days of every trading week are devoted to trial member demonstrations, which are essentially infomercials which the members have to endure during the morning session (from 9:30 to 11:00 am, Tues, Wed, Thurs).

The method appears to work for some members. However, I am still trying to trade it profitably. Personally, I prefer purely technical methods (which can be back-tested and subjected to statistical analysis) to work better for my trading goals and needs.

And even after going through their workshops, I still feel like I know nothing about real order flow (ie. reading time and sales and the order book, the DOM, etc.).

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  #6 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
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i agree with the last speaker 100%. its a pity that tradergirl's room is on recess or sabatical , but definitely if she is on the desk, would sent a screenshot over to her to check if red/green lines are camouflaged mp levels. i want to bet my used car their levels r tuned up mp levels and the whole order flow is some customised graphic rendition of the delta. i think with ninja replay data and gomi, one can pretty easily replay the data and see if gomi spits out same selling / buying pressures.

definitly his urge to sell the damn thing, rather than pocket house money through trading size, is worrisome. is selling the system a 'get-rich-steadily' formula on the part of the head trader.

one of my pals is waiting for ninja version of the indies, which we can use to run charts side by side with ofe indies and mp levels to see whether its worth wiring a 1500 to the spineless head trader.

definitely a good salesman with a pretty average system

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  #7 (permalink)
fort lauderdale, fl
 
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OFE definitely uses Market Profile. That's what the value areas are based upon. I think that this is the most solid aspect of the system. The part that makes no sense is how they use cumulative delta to gauge commitment of longs or shorts, and/or to show when all the longs/shorts have "capitulated" because the cum delt has retraced back to some previous level. Most traders that actually trade order flow will tell you that cumulative delta does not necessarily reflect commitment of traders because the cumulative orders usually get absorbed at extremes by massive resting limit orders and the committed traders turn into "trapped" traders who will soon be bailing. What is also erroneous about the moderator's theory is that he says that the "smart" money is only trading at "wholesale" values (which are usually defined at extremes or retracements to previous levels, rather than inside of an up trend or down trend. Anyone who takes a look at cumulative delta on a 1 minute chart of the ES during a strong trending day can see the bursts of thousands of initiating contracts in the trend direction. The moderator says that this is just traders on the wrong side covering their losing positions. I think this is complete BS, but then again, its just my opinion and my way of seeing market driven order flow. But, to OFE's credit, without a doubt, some of these folks do make money trading the OFE system, for sure. I just wonder...what the real stats are, and how many of the actual members are able to make the system work for them and make money over time.

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  #8 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
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Thanx. I think big mike should get a noble price for savings us thousands of dollars by avoiding buying some stuff out there. Sure ofe markets mp levels to the sheep out there. Willing to part with 1500. I still would Wa t to cross with my tgtradergirl. My concern is whether he uses a dev value area or so
E past roc no or something exotic. These crap about checking inventory imbalance is also same noise coming from eminitradingschool. I agree despite his poor judgement on the cumdelta this thing still makes lots of money for traders out there.

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  #9 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
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I re read your earlier posts and somehow I feel that both of seem to be groping in the dark find a solid orer flow method. I have do e tgtradergirl, futures71, futuresfx and ttz. I our purchased all of them hence my reluctance to add ofe to the arsenal. Sure tg pulls out couple of pts each day but the gal close her roo
For now. I think if we put heads together we could ourselves work out something solid.

Now does ofe indies work on ninjatrader. Could o e check fbm out with replaydata. I think with gomiladder we could retrace the levels and cum delta performance.

Also your idea of overcommitment at extremes could also be check wig volume spread analysis.

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  #10 (permalink)
San Antonio, TX
 
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I signed up for a trial a couple of months back, and they were sending me 1-2 emails a day with testimonials, special offers, links to live trade room, etc. They try to sell you their education in a very insistent manner. I also received videos showing their live trades. However, it seemed to me as if they were getting filled on their limit orders immediately when price ticked at their level. If they had a limit buy order, as soon as price came down and traded on the bid, they were filled. So that made me think they might be live trading on a sim account. Their zones were like a point appart from each other, there were zones everywhere. That is what I saw in the couple of times I went into their room.

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  #11 (permalink)
Hot Desert, AZ
 
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Ok, I do feel like I have to present myself in a rather blunt way to the aforementioned negative feedbacks from above. I have been on a journey with the mystical "orderflow" that so many successful traders have only given a glimpse about for a few years now, and those who actually have contributed to futures.io (formerly BMT) can find a few of my journals about this topic in the Elite section of this website. Now, I have taken Thomas's courses over at OFE, and I can say without a doubt that this man is the real deal. He teaches you everything you need to know to gauge the orderflow activity of the ES (they focus primarily on this instrument). With this knowledge, however, it can be applied to any other market. Simply put, is OFE for everyone? Absolutely not, but those who would like to play the markets in an order-flow/supply+demand aspect, absolutely. Those who are looking for a red light/green light system, this is probably not suited for you.

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  #12 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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Just watched a live webinar from OFE presented by MrTopStep. Thanks to MTS for hosting the webinar. This is a webinar review, not a product/service review.

I suppose one day I will not waste two hours on Saturday with these kinds of webinars, where minute number 40 of the presentation still contains the words "what we're going to talk about" and "we will get into this a bit later" in minute 62. I strongly dislike presentations which contain more than 50% fluff which could be completely eliminated, literally. I could have 35 minutes late and missed nothing at all.

As for the meat of the presentation, there was some good information regarding liquidity and the basics of how reversals occur and stop runs.

The methodology reminds me of a hybrid of Sam Seiden's stuff and Fulcrum Trader. He even used Fulcrum's "market order driven order flow" quote and appears to use his 'resting inventory' based on delta (which is based on a mathematically unsound, faulty premise--delta is not calculated in a way that represents inventory). Also, his words sound familiar and similar to Sam Seiden's webinar material on supply/demand, who's on the other side of the trade, and wholesale/retail terminology. Granted, these are not particular to any methodology; everyone talks about supply, demand, stop runs, "smart money" and so on, so I'm not saying in any way that the material is somehow taken directly from other education vendors, but the similarities are striking.

In the end, it seems OFE identifies zones of prior supply and demand, and then watches real time order flow as the market enters these zones to confirm a trade. OFE has prices of $995, $1995, and $3995 on their web site. Based on what I saw in the 90 or so minutes of this presentation, there is nothing original, nothing new, and nothing spectacular. Not that it needs to be, but it was presented as "different" and with "a whole new twist," and it simply is not, in any way. Nothing was mentioned of overall market context, fundamentals, and the emphasis was not really on how to trade, but on "zones and order flow."

In my commitment to always learning, I attend these webinars to keep myself from becoming complacent or thinking I know all I need to know. There was some useful information, but it could have been easily presented in 15 minutes, without the rest of the fluff.

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  #13 (permalink)
Lakeland
 
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icehac View Post
Ok, I do feel like I have to present myself in a rather blunt way to the aforementioned negative feedbacks from above. I have been on a journey with the mystical "orderflow" that so many successful traders have only given a glimpse about for a few years now, and those who actually have contributed to futures.io (formerly BMT) can find a few of my journals about this topic in the Elite section of this website. Now, I have taken Thomas's courses over at OFE, and I can say without a doubt that this man is the real deal. He teaches you everything you need to know to gauge the orderflow activity of the ES (they focus primarily on this instrument). With this knowledge, however, it can be applied to any other market. Simply put, is OFE for everyone? Absolutely not, but those who would like to play the markets in an order-flow/supply+demand aspect, absolutely. Those who are looking for a red light/green light system, this is probably not suited for you.

Do you trade the system? Do you make money?

Reason I'm asking - it is easy to get excited with the new mentor, but overtime, <<some of us>> find out that it just does not work for us. Might work for the mentor, but not to the student.

So, what are your results, if you don't mind sharing?

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Hot Desert, AZ
 
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fttrdr View Post
Do you trade the system? Do you make money?

Reason I'm asking - it is easy to get excited with the new mentor, but overtime, <<some of us>> find out that it just does not work for us. Might work for the mentor, but not to the student.

So, what are your results, if you don't mind sharing?


I do trade the system, and I do make consistent cash. The biggest thing to realize is that it's more of a mindset than anything. They teach primarily on the ES, and I have taken the same principles and trade many instruments now; from stocks,to fx, to futs. Thomas is a very stand up guy, and the community that OFE has backing it is phenomenal. If you get a trial, let them know icehac sent you their way, Thomas will treat you right!

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  #15 (permalink)
AKL
 
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Checked this vendor out for a week. Can't say that I'm overly impressed. This order flow stuff all sounds great in theory but when it came time to trade... the few trades I saw taken were closed after 1-2 ticks profit before price reversed to breakeven on the rest. It seems to me it's a 50/50 proposition whether a minor support or resistance level will hold... and analysing order flow at these levels offers no more edge.

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  #16 (permalink)
tucson
 
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I look at the video recaps and find the set ups for the famous tt bands that it supposedly be a very complicate algo computer formula. is a simple and plain bollinger bands with 30 sma 2 std and another with 30sma and 3 std. boths use the close price and put it in a 2 tick range, 4 tick range, 8 tick range and 16 tick range...I will say that there is nothing magic in this set ups that can give you a edge.
........I find all the set up for all his other charts too ,and there is nothing new, is all in sierra charts studies
the guy is a very good talker and can sell you any thing but I will say in his favor that he has a better understanding of the market that a lot of the vendors( I will say the 10% understated how market work but still can not make consistent money that why they teach) , he has the right idea but he is using a arrows ageist the smart money tanks,
Vendors exist for one reason only, to make money because they can make more money selling than trading .and if he can not make consistent money why did you expect to do better than them ? you see if they sell his product to a 100 traders and 10% only make some money, they will use this 10% to promote his teaching and the rest of the 90% that loose money will permanence Anonymous in silence looking for the next teacher that can sell to them a new hope.

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  #17 (permalink)
chicago il usa
 
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Ok so this is the second review I have ever written in my life. I started my trading journey 2009 , by 2013 I was nowhere near being successful. I took classes with OFE in 2013 and it took me 3 years to become a very good trader. I first learned the whole concept of order flow supply demand and it took me hundreds of hours before to find my sweet spot , OFE is the best trading school I have ever across , however I tweaked the trading entries and changed a little bit the OFE approach , not they OFE set ups didnít work , they did , it just didnít fit my trading personality so I tried MANY MANY different tolls all based on imbalances and S/D to find something that will work for me , Iím a VERY VERY CONSERVATIVE trader and it took me 3 years to figure out how to trim my stops to 6-7 ticks with at least 3-1 R/W. My holy grail is R/S I trade CL and CL only !! I spent 4 years in total learning how to trade Crude Oil and 3 of those years I was focused only on Order flow trading S/D , I think Thomas changed my life Ė without him I would probably still have 9-5 , instead I feel like Im retired at 35 . Iím not making millions, thatís never was my intent, but having an awesome income anywhere in the world was my only dream. Again donít expect to take the course and start making money in 2-3 months, it just not possible. The last reports from CBOT stated that only %2 of people make it in the futures markets!! So if you want to be a trader, it will be one of the most challenges you will ever encounter in your life. I know I created my whole so to call system purely from OFE concept and it took me almost 3 years but my point is if you want to become the trader donít blame somebody else, Thomas is the real deal, he is my trading Hero and I will be always grateful although I made a LOT of ton work on my own and are using completely different set ups to find my entries the whole income revenue comes from the whole logic and concept of OFE . To tell you whatís possible, I can trade CL $2000 account with %3 risk on any trade and pull $500 a week without any problem, now if you give me ES to trade instead I donít know if I could make that much in a month, my edge is learning and mastering ONLY one market , every instrument has a differently dynamic and behaves differentlyÖ Anyway , thatís just my 2 cents , trade safe and you will be on the other side

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  #18 (permalink)
San jose
 
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bastek300 View Post
Ok so this is the second review I have ever written in my life. I started my trading journey 2009 , by 2013 I was nowhere near being successful. I took classes with OFE in 2013 and it took me 3 years to become a very good trader. I first learned the whole concept of order flow supply demand and it took me hundreds of hours before to find my sweet spot , OFE is the best trading school I have ever across , however I tweaked the trading entries and changed a little bit the OFE approach , not they OFE set ups didnít work , they did , it just didnít fit my trading personality so I tried MANY MANY different tolls all based on imbalances and S/D to find something that will work for me , Iím a VERY VERY CONSERVATIVE trader and it took me 3 years to figure out how to trim my stops to 6-7 ticks with at least 3-1 R/W. My holy grail is R/S I trade CL and CL only !! I spent 4 years in total learning how to trade Crude Oil and 3 of those years I was focused only on Order flow trading S/D , I think Thomas changed my life Ė without him I would probably still have 9-5 , instead I feel like Im retired at 35 . Iím not making millions, thatís never was my intent, but having an awesome income anywhere in the world was my only dream. Again donít expect to take the course and start making money in 2-3 months, it just not possible. The last reports from CBOT stated that only %2 of people make it in the futures markets!! So if you want to be a trader, it will be one of the most challenges you will ever encounter in your life. I know I created my whole so to call system purely from OFE concept and it took me almost 3 years but my point is if you want to become the trader donít blame somebody else, Thomas is the real deal, he is my trading Hero and I will be always grateful although I made a LOT of ton work on my own and are using completely different set ups to find my entries the whole income revenue comes from the whole logic and concept of OFE . To tell you whatís possible, I can trade CL $2000 account with %3 risk on any trade and pull $500 a week without any problem, now if you give me ES to trade instead I donít know if I could make that much in a month, my edge is learning and mastering ONLY one market , every instrument has a differently dynamic and behaves differentlyÖ Anyway , thatís just my 2 cents , trade safe and you will be on the other side

Hi bastek300,
Can you please explain your setups using OFA tools ??? what courses you took from OFA ????

Thanks in advance
Bill

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  #19 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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in the last three years are so it has been raining order flow software. it started with OFA ...when other vendors learned the huge profits D.B. was racking up... the flood gates have opened...you can get them for free on the indicator down load page...why would you pay thousands for them.. if the inventors of this kind of software were turning thousands a day trading.. would they have time for all the sales, development, and marketing. ( hell no) they are not new... market delta and serria charts have been around for 10 to 15 years. buyer be ware is in order

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  #20 (permalink)
Johor Bahru, Malaysia
 
Experience: Advanced
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I recently contacted them to learn more about their services. I had a pretty short conversation with the main trader/trainer there, Thomas. Basically, he summarized his system as making use of stop runs to identify where traders are trapped. So basically, he's using footprint charts to identify that. Other than that, he doesn't seem open to taking in new students etc. Either that or it may just be a marketing gimmick to make you desperate to join. Either case, it's pretty much a closed door for now.

Cheers!

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