I finally found this set of videos after having seen it mentioned by someone on another forum.
This guy has fast-forward playbacks of some of his trading days with music + videos making up a crazy,
maybe entertaining bunch of "unstoppable!" presentations. His website makes it sound like he's claiming to be some kind of big time pro trader. I'm not sure how he's trading , but.. you can see for yourselves. Have fun.
that was crazy.....i didnt understand the multiple buys and sells on the dom.....of course i didnt understand much of anything, but it was pretty cool.....prob. a hoax cloudy
I'm not sure if it's vendor site or just a blog video site. But sure I don't mind if this topic is moved to the vendor forum. I just saw it was an entertaining blog of live trading videos. Thanks skinlanta, yes I thought it was crazy and unbelievable when I first saw it too.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,085 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,547 given,
98,541
received
Thread Moved
Moved to Vendors
When creating a new thread, note which subforum you are in. Here is a short list of suggestions:
- Topic: Anything to do with an Elite indicator -> Subforum: The Elite Circle
- Topic: Looking for an existing indicator, or how-to use an indicator -> Subforum: (the platform)
- Topic: Programmer needing help with non-Elite indicator -> Subforum: (the platform) - Programming
- Topic: Want an indicator created/modified -> Reply to "Want indicator created free" in Elite Circle
- Topic: Vendors (trading rooms, commercial indicators) -> Subforum: Vendors/Product Reviews
- Topic: Discussion of Forex or Currency trading -> Subforum: Forex and Currency Trading
- Topic: Journals of your trading -> Subforum: Trading Journals or Elite Trading Journals
- Topic: General trading related discussions -> Subforum: Traders Hideout
- Topic: Discussion of a trading method -> Subforum: Traders Hideout
- Topic: Automated Trading -> Subforum: Elite Automated Trading
Last, any Elite Member may create more or less any of these topics in The Elite Circle at your own discretion (your support is appreciated).
This is just a short general list and doesn't cover everything. If you are unsure where to create your new thread, just create it in Traders Hideout and a moderator will move it if necessary.
I've seen his website and recorded videos before and put it off as a hoax, some wannabe papertrader living with his parents and looking for attention...
But taking a closer look again, I see he apparently trades live on "livestream" ?!
Watching his live feed, I went in long at 1237 along with him and took a small profit. While he remained long, I reversed to short and in a few minutes got 1.75 handles on one car. Meanwhile he had doubled down to a 100 car long position, which turned on him.
All sim, of course. But enough to see that he is a pretty bad trader, stubbornly staying long when the TICK was MORE stubbornly remaining negative. I guess he thinks he is smarter than the market.
The following user says Thank You to Zondor for this post:
Is he doing some kind of scaling in method taught anywhere?
So yes, maybe a paper trading guy who puts up a site with some ads on it.
(one of the ads leads to Dr. Barry Burns...again)
Either that or some lottery winner who has a lott-o money to play around with on the ES
and wanting an audience.
Even when someone shows their trades on live stream with their DOM visible, others still don't believe it.. What more do you want to see? Often he shows his trades from pre-market to close. Somethings you might want to consider:
- Who cares if its paper trading or real, if he is CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE, which he clearly is most days. Its very clear he can trade..
- If he can trade, why would he bother paper trading on this site wasting his time when he can trade live? Do you know any consistently profitable paper traderS that never goes live?
- I believe he's for real because he clearly has a methodology, and I was taught an identical methodology using candles to find levels and trading without indicators. I've since added additional levels with MP/ACD, but I know his method of finding levels and trading without any indicators is a valid and effective one, good traders often trade this way.
- I think the biggest take away from seeing him trade is that simplicity is best and you're likely better served with less indicators. Indicators will complicate your trading decisions and take your attention away from more important information which is levels and reading the market/price. At the end of the day, every trade is nothing more than a gamble and all you have is a probability and we all assess it differently. Just because you faded him and made money when he lost on that trade does not take away from his overall results which is undeniable.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Jedi for this post:
If I'm correct, he uses TOS for his charts but his Ninja is powered thru another source.. I assume his trades are not with TOS but I can be wrong.. Only been on the site for a few weeks..
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,040 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 1,713 given,
3,857
received
I've heard some traders talk about this guy in the past and they confirmed he was a fake. I also had a look at some of the videos on his youtube page and can tell you right now it's 100% SIM (at least in the videos) but I have to give him thumbs up for the editing (not a fan of the music though). Maybe he's a video editor/graphics designer in real life. Here's an example, he had a resting order for 100 contracts at bid but the DOM order book was only showing around 30 contracts in the queue at bid. I know NT doesn't offer Iceberg orders as far as I know so, that put a lid on that. Also, someone that I talked to told me the guy walked away from his computer with 100 contracts sitting at offer which ended up getting executed and had a 100 contract position on as the market went for and against him. He apparently came back an hour or so later from a "nap" to close his position out for a nice loss. No serious trader that trades size does something like this with real money! He was also getting full fills on 100 - 200 cars without any partial fills which is unrealistic. Even in the ES you can have partial fills from time to time unless you're shredding into the market. He claimed he was with MFG but he was using NT for a DOM. MFG didn't even offer NT as far as I know. Maybe it was through some other subsidiary or something. And lastly, anyone using TOS for live intra-day trading with NT for OE is interesting IMO. TOS' charts lag so far behind the data feed of NT, it's ridiculous. TOS is best used for end of the day big picture analysis IMO.
There were some other weird things I noticed on there such as his constant intent to show that he's wealthy (mansions, Ferrari's, etc.) Just a sign of someone that is out trying to create an image. I can tell you right now that there's no need to telegraph to the world that you're rich unless you want some bad company.
The trading style is interesting but can be very damaging if you don't know what you're doing. Adding to a losing position in a trending market for example, could destroy your entire account in one day. He was able to grab a few points here and there but the actual amount of money being made was being emphasized over the actual points, risk taken on and all the real important things in trading were nowhere mentioned. Of course you're going to make big bucks on a few points if you're leveraging big bucks. You can also lose big with that kind of leverage.
You have to wonder what the motive of someone like this is. Maybe some sort of vendor idea behind it at some point down the road once he gets a bunch of followers to sign up to learn how to trade like he does?
The following 3 users say Thank You to Private Banker for this post:
most of the time just looking at the dom will tell you if it's live or sim.
I mentioned it before, with a "live" dom, you can't change the back color of the dom. so if you don't put the exact color on your "sim" dom, you're exposed.
judge for yourself:
The following 5 users say Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,040 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 1,713 given,
3,857
received
The thought of this guy being some teenager/early 20's actually makes sense based on the music and depth of dialogue I've seen by him. The video below in particular had me fall out of my chair laughing hysterically. He was managing a few hundred lot position while ordering clothes and other items from Louis Vuitton and Hermes acting like trading is no big deal. I can tell you the entertainment value of his videos are great if not comical.
The following 4 users say Thank You to Private Banker for this post:
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,040 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 1,713 given,
3,857
received
It is very important to know that there is a massive psychological difference in being consistently profitable trading paper vs CP trading live. Not to mention with a few hundred contracts. Don't be fooled here.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Private Banker for this post:
PB,
You bring out some good points but primarily from the execution side.
- I imagine getting filled with 100 cars/order should not be a problem on ES as long as the size is there and its there 99% of the time from what I've seen but I have no experience trading that size. From what I've seen and I have not watched any of the videos is that he enters in 50lots/entries, often 25 which should never have a problem getting fills on ES.
- I wouldn't read too far into his music and depth of conversation because we often still listen to the same music we liked since we were teenagers.. This means, if you liked Metallica when you were 16, odds are good that you will still like it at 60. Often pit traders are some of the best traders but they are not known for their gentrification and their conversations probably sound similar so that doesn't tell much.
However....
- It is odd that he is so casual on his large lots often walking away from his trades to float in the wind but how often do locals on squawk box ride their losses so that doesn't mean its fake..
- It is also possible that he altered the color on his DOM though I'm not an expert on computers and coding
- Probably my biggest suspicion is that I sometimes notice a slight delay in his execution from my perception on his stop/limit orders which is more characteristic of sim than real.. Real execution gets hit as soon as bid/ask "touches" the order so that part I do pay attention to.
- It is also odd that he's not using better charting but often we don't like the learning curve of new platforms and stay with what works.. Since he only watches his candles and nothing else, it may not be an issue to him as his dom reflects current price and TOS gives him levels to the left..
His conversations are sometimes broadcasted live and he sounds to be around late 30's to mid forties.. I would have guessed the accent from East Coast..
PB's comment about his 100 lot sitting bid orders with no iceberg not reflected in the size does require an explanation or it is 100% sim. The same goes for MFG not offering NT but there may be an explanation..
The following 2 users say Thank You to Jedi for this post:
Sylvester,
The one on the left is the live dom and the one on the right is Lakai's color, hence Lakai's DOM is sim correct? That in combination with PB's comments about his orders w/o iceberg not reflected on size and MFG does not offer Ninja and sometimes seeing slight delays on his stp/lmt orders makes it a bit suspicious... but still............................................YOU'RE ALL ABSOLUTELY CORRECT..HA
Help me out here, so just the background color can't be changed? The gray from white is the difference, is that correct?
I haven't been live for sometime with NT, but I do have an account and just don't want to turn on my trading computer to understand the difference...
I guess, which is SIM and which is live? Guessing that SIM is one on right as it has your account on the top left and I haven't used DOM in over a year....
The following user says Thank You to bluemele for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,085 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,547 given,
98,541
received
But you can change the sim color easily to make it look just like live.
And as mentioned before, even if it was live, it makes no difference. Another account could be hedging, or he could just show winning days or trades in his videos. All of the focus on whether it is real or not is worthless. Does it help you be a better trade? Yes/No. If yes, learn from it. If no, move on.
Haha! That is hilarious, especially the shopping. But, aside from his comical videos, why are you guys giving him the time of day?
Trading hundreds of contracts without any partial fills? Holding on to 100 contracts through the close, in a failed attempt to capture a couple of ticks?
No serious DOM trader would be using that set-up; it's like giving money away.
Reading the Youtube comments, it's clear that the easiest money in trading is becoming a vendor. When are people going to start thinking for themselves?
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,040 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 1,713 given,
3,857
received
Thanks! Yes, there is absolutely no problem getting filled on a 100 lot order in ES. It's the execution amounts that drew the red flag (in addition to his order not showing in the order numbers on the DOM). You can definitely get your 100 lot filled at the price you've entered at but it may not always be an immediate fill. For example, you may get 57 filled and then 20 and then 23 or some sort of odd lot fill (numbers are just an example of course).
Like I said before, don't be fooled by the high speed/flashing lights. I've been trading for a long time and know when I see a duck. Don't waste your time with people like this. There's clearly a different motive for this guy whether it be he just needs some attention and he's trying to create an image or there's a vendor motive behind it all. You don't trade size like this while buying Hermes handkerchiefs or walking away from your computer with a 100 lot position on to only come back from a nap... Let's wake up and smell the coffee here...
The following 5 users say Thank You to Private Banker for this post:
Thanks for the enlightenment. I was just curious as hardly anyone ever shows live trades executing on their DOM online or in a playback video. "live" trading rooms and vendor/coaching sites never do. Now I see clearly lakai has a disclaimer on his website live stream.. It's perplexing why he would spend all this time and effort with this sim display.
The following user says Thank You to Cloudy for this post:
My broker who also trades live with a Ninja DOM saw the DOM and said that the background color is consistent with a live DOM, which should be light grey-white, not bleach white in color.. If the DOM colors has been altered, they have certainly done a remarkable job..
Perhaps we can see something in time and sales to reflect his orders but sometimes its broken up to fill smaller orders. The size should also reflect his sitting orders but 99.9% of the time ES has enough size to cover over Lakai's size. I have not been able to witness otherwise personally..
I have to say that for the few weeks that I've seen him trade, he has been trading remarkably well overall and his method is the simplest I've seen and its clearly working..
Some ask why is he doing this? One explanation is its fun to be watched when you're performing something well especially when its something most don't believe can be done. How many of you played sports and enjoyed an audience? Often its the same with trading...
This doesn't negate the other comments that are clearly valid and he may well be trading sim.. but if he can maintain his performance with such a simple method of only price bars and time frames, its impressive even for sim..
as @Big Mike said before, and I completely agree, it doesn't matter if it's sim or live. if you can benefit from it good, if not don't waste your time.
and this is just for clarification. ray from nt was very kind to confirm my findings:
The following 2 users say Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
who cares if it is sim or live? Make your own judgement about that if you need to count other peoples money to make you a better trader, but no doubt the forums could be dominitaed by sim trade bsd's and people that do not really trade or have any idea.
A simple review will determine if a "system" is robust and realistic to duplicate or mine for usefulness in one's own trading.
If real, most people will fail in their attempt to duplicate it anyway. I can see everything Tom Brady does and I can to a great extent do the same thing but it is simply not part of my genetic code nor do I have the right external influences to be an elite NFL quarterback.
I think it is somewhat naive for a similarly "regular guy" to think that he can watch some videos, read some books and "become" an elite trader, human nature and emotional forces are just to strong against for that to be routine....not to say many can't make or augment a reasonable living.
To offer just one simple clue about the authenticity of those proposed or referenced trades. I've been involved in professional trading for 20 years and in that time I'd say I know of maybe a couple hundred "sole props" or "locals" that are regularly bigger than 100 up and NONE of them would freely broadcast that outside of the crowd, especially not in a public forum like futures.io (formerly BMT).
The following 3 users say Thank You to wldman for this post:
There are many messiahs looking for followers...and even more followers looking for the messiah...plenty to choose from...
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.
vvhg
Hic Rhodos, hic salta.
The following 2 users say Thank You to vvhg for this post:
give it a rest. There is no way to infer that...no evidence whatsoever that Mike thinks anything about you. You are starting to seem a little troll-ish. If you want to believe something is real or not, that is up to you. I say real! 100% authentic! Best trader/method living or dead. Everyone should take notice.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,085 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,547 given,
98,541
received
No I am not accusing you of that. Why would I?
I am just trying to educate all the people who think "oh, it's a live dom!!" and get all excited. It can all be faked. Even if it was really live it makes no difference! Unless you are his accountant and have all of his tax returns and matching documents from his brokers, there is no way to ever know that just because his trade or day was profitable that he himself is profitable.
I just mean all this discussion of whether it is real or not is pointless. Assume it is fake. Assume it is a hoax and a lie. Then approach it and on those grounds, is it still useful? If yes, awesome. If no, move on. The need to try and copy someone just because they show you a glimpse of a trade or a day and you think they are king of the hill is crazy.
Likewise, just because someone may be trading on sim doesn't mean everything they say or show is worthless. They certainly can't speak to psychology or emotions, and I wouldn't listen to anything they say about risk management, but they may still have good points to make on trade setups or directional bias in the market, etc.
Just forget about cash vs sim because in the end, it makes zero difference on what is truly important. Every man for himself when it comes to trading. Stop trying to copy people and start trading for yourself.
None of this is directed at anyone in particular, but to just those in general who gravitate towards all these vendor threads.
OK Mike - if you say that wasn't a poke at me with the account number thing, fair enough.
As for SIM vs Real - this is quite important.
There is a lot of value in watching a profitable trader execute. This is one of the few ways to pick up on the nuance of a method. For instance, if someone says "give it a few moments", as a student, you'd come to your own conclusions on what "a few moments" is.
I dont agree with following someone or shadow trading but I do believe there is much value in being in a room (virtual of physical) with someone that knows what they are doing.
Someone that SIM trades, that cannot put their money where their mouth is - well that's a person that isn't able to trade. There is zero benefit in watching such a person. Such people should be learning, not teaching. They should be watching, not showing.
So - I feel these things are important, so that new entrants into trading don't get sucked up into a bullshit vortex.
Now - in terms of Mr TradeItDontDateIt.. I took liberty to record his DOM against mine. Now at this point I have to cross a line somewhat vendor-wise and tell you that my DOM shows the executions, so I can clearly see whether trades actually went through against a bid or not.
So - I watched & waited for him to make a trade. He was long 25 contracts and flipped to short. What I should have seen was 50 contracts hitting the bid and guess how many went through??? Yup - none at all.
It's fake, totally fake. He switched off shortly after making that trade.
I wont post the video as it could be construed as advertising but I will PM it to Mike.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
He appears to be trading live today. Why would he SIM trade with those results? He seems to be a really good trader. Makes no sense not to make real money, even with reduced contract size.
That's assuming the trader went long and stayed long from the morning pullback.. The entire 40-42 level can also be seen as a potential short. I have not followed him lately but from what I saw when I did, he seems to have some trading skills and I often wonder the same thing myself but I'm done guessing around this...
Is this guy selling something? I am a bit bemused by the interest that he is creating or is that it he is able to drive suspecting traders to his site. Ah curiosity one the tools used by skilled persuaders and marketeers, so it does work!
Lak is a real trader that has been trading for 8 years or so and worked his way up to what you see today.
I've been talking with him for nearly 3 years now and learning by watching him livestream his trades.
He's the real deal and so many choose not to believe it because they doubt they're own ability in trading.
They see some guy making hundreds of thousands in a day and choose ignorance and say "oh it cant be real for _______ reason" all the while wishing it wasn't real because they feel they will never match up to his performance.
Lak himself says anyone can learn to trade, its a skill, not an innate ability. It took him years to get to where he is, years of constant work and study and really figuring out how markets move.
Frankly, I'm ashamed of the members of futures.io (formerly BMT) in this thread that said Lak is fake.
@Big Mike had it right: "Does it help you be a better trade? Yes/No. If yes, learn from it. If no, move on."
Obviously it's a skill rather than an innate ability, but it doesn't follow from this that it's a skill "anyone can learn". Not everyone is capable of the necessary patience and discipline, for a start, and there are some other essential qualities, too.
I have no opinion of whether or not he's fake, but the statement you quote above certainly doesn't endear him to me on the credibility front.
The following user says Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
I would start with his YouTube videos. Search "tradeitdontdateit" and you'll find his channel. Start with the old videos and work your way up, tons to be learned just by watching.
He also livestreams his trading at livestream.com/tradeitdontdateit, but he recently cut back on that a good bit.
He doesn't teach, he just trades.
I find the videos and live streaming to be more inspirational than anything else.
The following user says Thank You to TheTradeSlinger for this post:
Responding to an old post but he would have to trade SIM with those results if he didn't have the margin required to trade it live. You can't trade 100+ lots on a small account.
Something does not add up. If we have people on this forum stating that they recorded Order Flow against his trades and when Lak claimed to trade x contracts they did not show on the recorded Tape/Order Flow on the other side, wouldn't that be suspicious?
I've gone through the thread again - perhaps you could point me to where people say that they did see the orders go through? I can't find it myself. Thx.
It is kind of a moot point because the guy retired in last August according to TradeSlinger. If he actually made those profits and retired while the going was still good, I lift my fedora off to him...
His website seems to be down. Of course there is the possibility he was doing SIMs, but again, it is a moot point now...
Edit: There is a separate current thread discussing this guy and apparently he is still in business:
Hey guys, been to the website tradeitdontdate.com for a while and watch his videos. I have to say it is very inspiring to see guy trading hundreds of contract and consistently making 200k everyday. Thats what I am dreaming for. So for the pass weeks, …
Edit2: According to the #3 post in the above thread, he just came back to trading and live streaming last week..
1. The general rule with these type of claims that it is all BS, until proven otherwise.
2. If the guy is really making so much, why would he care about sharing and dealing with subscribers?
3. Also, why did he stop in last August and why is the website down right now?
Addressing point #2, I am all for diversification and it could be a good idea of sharing and getting extra money if it doesn't interfere with the core business, which is real life trading. But hassling with subscribers can be just too much and not worth the distraction.
Addressing point #1, it kind of doesn't matter if sim or real, as long as the followers can profit from it by either learning something or copying the trades. As long as one of those occur, who cares if it is not real money?? As was mentioned above, check it out, if you can use it good, if not, move on....
#2: There are no subscribers. It's a guy livestreaming (sometimes!) his trading and chatting with people he's known a long time.
#3: Not sure about August, but he "retired" sometime late last year close to that limit down day we had in the ES. Truly though, i doubt he will "retire" for years, he loves trading too much (all in my opinion).
"Addressing point #1, it kind of doesn't matter if sim or real, as long as the followers can profit from it by either learning something or copying the trades. As long as one of those occur, who cares if it is not real money?? As was mentioned above, check it out, if you can use it good, if not, move on...."
Hey I think this guy lakai can trade and there are things that we all can learn from. For a guy making money like that, people will get suspicious. I still dont believe that a person managed to trade 500+lots in only 3 years experience in future trading as shown in his 2010 video. That would take a millions dollar account. making millions with a starting capital of 10k is not easy to do.
Well, you wrote it in another thread back then that he retired. If it happened after a huge move, he might have lost a ton and didn't feel like sharing anymore.
If he doesn't have subscribers I can actually see the reason of sharing. It keeps one sharper and also a bit more entertained.
Anyway, I wanted to ask you: You have been following him for 3 years, but according to your journal, you still have issues with your trading. So what did you learn from him and what was what you still need to work on? (I think one was sticking to winners longer)
I have been following his work for 5 years (videos/livestream), chatting and getting to know him for 3 years.
I learned levels, S/R, momentum, and most importantly that trading for a living is possible from him.
@Pedro40, my main issue these days is holding my winners to my intended targets, but I am getting better and better at that each day it seems like (or at least I hope lol). I realized there was a major disconnect between my analysis of the markets which is usually spot on, and my execution of my analysis or plan.
Actually, believe it or not (lol! not referring to you Pedro, but this whole thread), I spoke with Lak over the phone about this issue a few weeks ago and I figured out what I had to do to improve, which is to just do it. There's no "feel good" crap that can help one improve, one just has to do it. Took me a while to realize that, but my results have improved a great deal since coming to that realization.
I hope you guys can realize I am the biggest cheerleader in the world for Lak and his work because it helped me a lot, literally wouldn't be where I am sitting at my desk if it weren't for me finding his work and I getting interested enough to begin trading futures.
I share this with you guys because that is the nature of futures.io (BMT!) to share with one another things we have found to be helpful in our journeys to successful trading.
tradeitdontdateit was brought to my attn recently on a chatroom I participate in. I was amazed to find intelligent people wanting to believe those trading videos represented live trading.
Videos show a 700 lot trader.
Video are 100% sim trading.
1) If trading that size, you do not execute on Ninja. Retail platforms are not trustworthy in fast markets. Ticks matter.
2) If trading that size, and trading high frequency intraday bars, you do not chart and execute on different platforms.
3) As pointed out, futures orders are for everyone to see and show on Times Sales - if a 100 lot order is not there, it did not happen.
He/she may be or have been a real live trader, or not. But the videos are sim. Fun, maybe, but sim.
Its hard to understand how can anyone who has actually traded can find sim trading inspirational. Sim traders face no emotional obstacles and can average down and play the martingale to get out of any drawdown, always coming out on top.
People believes what they want to believe.
Guruitis is a disease.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Oysteryx for this post:
