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Jigsaw Trading, Daytradr and Journalytix, www.jigsawtrading.com

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  #51 (permalink)
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: JIGSAW/SIERRA CHART
Broker: MacQuarie Futures/AMP Clearing/CQG
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Posts: 502 since Feb 2012
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I am a customer of Pete's as well. Hopelessly addicted to depth and sales, and time and sales.

However, I don't trade enough that I must PLACE ORDERS off that DOM, so I won't be paying the subscription fee. Also I try to own the products I buy, not lease.

Some guys are talented enough to recall what has happened in the DOM with a TT style presentation...I'm not. I need the Jigsaw DOM in order to see the bergs, the pulling and stacking at my levels.

Next to my Rancho tools, my DOM tools are irreplaceable.

XS

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  #52 (permalink)
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Jack22 View Post
Oh right, he's a vendor and gotta make that extra money off people who forget to cancel. .

I think these accusations are going a little far.

Plenty of people have asked to cancel after more than 14 days because they forgot.

Others have asked for more time to trial & were given it.

Some had tech issues at the start and so I pre-empted a request for more trial time.

Thus far, not a single person has been refused a refund.

I think you should at least have some basis for the accusations you are making.

The software isn't for everyone but those that are willing to pay a refundable amount for a trial are generally serious about it, so I don't spend time with those that aren't. An added benefit my side is that repeat trialers will eventually run out of credit cards to buy trials on as we don't allow the same one twice.

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  #53 (permalink)
Washington DC
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader7
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 73 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 107 given, 83 received



DionysusToast View Post
I think these accusations are going a little far.

Plenty of people have asked to cancel after more than 14 days because they forgot.

Others have asked for more time to trial & were given it.

Some had tech issues at the start and so I pre-empted a request for more trial time.

Thus far, not a single person has been refused a refund.

I think you should at least have some basis for the accusations you are making.

The software isn't for everyone but those that are willing to pay a refundable amount for a trial are generally serious about it, so I don't spend time with those that aren't. An added benefit my side is that repeat trialers will eventually run out of credit cards to buy trials on as we don't allow the same one twice.

It's not an accusation, those are your policies and most time those policies are instituted to gain extra money off of people who forget cancel. Color it how you want but most normal rational people I think see things this way, but your die hard defenders won't. You were never accused of refusing refunds because I am sure you wouldn't do that, but forcing people to sign up for the subscription to do the trial is something that is very real. You didn't force them to do the month to month, but forced the more expensive option--people should be aware of that policy of yours and be allowed to show dissent, but that does not mean you don't have a good product. You should have at least tied it to the monthly and not yearly option, poor form...it's fact, you can't dispute that and people should know that is how you are conducting business, which now they do and I am happy for that. Do not take that as you aren't extending trials, allowing ppl to cancel, or accept special requests, bc as you said you are, but your policy is still to tie it to yearly even for people who have already bought.

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  #54 (permalink)
Nashville, Tennessee
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja / Jigsaw / 9G
Broker: AMP / CQG
Trading: NQ, YM and ES
 
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Jack22 View Post
It's not an accusation, those are your policies and most time those policies are instituted to gain extra money off of people who forget cancel. Color it how you want but most normal rational people I think see things this way, but your die hard defenders won't. You were never accused of refusing refunds because I am sure you wouldn't do that, but forcing people to sign up for the subscription to do the trial is something that is very real. You didn't force them to do the month to month, but forced the more expensive option--people should be aware of that policy of yours and be allowed to show dissent, but that does not mean you don't have a good product. You should have at least tied it to the monthly and not yearly option, poor form...it's fact, you can't dispute that and people should know that is how you are conducting business, which now they do and I am happy for that. Do not take that as you aren't extending trials, allowing ppl to cancel, or accept special requests, bc as you said you are, but your policy is still to tie it to yearly even for people who have already bought.


Jack

Your viewpoint appears to have a camp total of one.

When I purchased the DOM and tape, it was for those reasons. This V4 update has actually made it
a different product all together, as it is now a trading platform.
The added fee's / licenses are justified.

I can now use my divinely updated tools in SIM mode without paying a penny more. However, I
WILL update to the full version shortly.

...please let this go. I will come to Pete's defense every time


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


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  #55 (permalink)
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, customized
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 526 since Feb 2010
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Jack22 View Post
You also get the open source code and exactly what you want--I suggest you go this route, I have.

To be clear, I do use my own indicators, including my own DOM on the chart. But I trialed Jigsaw's indicators several versions ago, and think it's a fine and innovative product. If that were what I wanted, I'd pay for his product rather than code my own (though I wouldn't go for a subscription). Many vendors just recycle other people's ideas in new packages.

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  #56 (permalink)
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Jack22 View Post
It's not an accusation, those are your policies and most time those policies are instituted to gain extra money off of people who forget cancel. Color it how you want but most normal rational people I think see things this way, but your die hard defenders won't. You were never accused of refusing refunds because I am sure you wouldn't do that, but forcing people to sign up for the subscription to do the trial is something that is very real. You didn't force them to do the month to month, but forced the more expensive option--people should be aware of that policy of yours and be allowed to show dissent, but that does not mean you don't have a good product. You should have at least tied it to the monthly and not yearly option, poor form...it's fact, you can't dispute that and people should know that is how you are conducting business, which now they do and I am happy for that. Do not take that as you aren't extending trials, allowing ppl to cancel, or accept special requests, bc as you said you are, but your policy is still to tie it to yearly even for people who have already bought.

I have no idea what "tied to the monthly rather than yearly option means". No-one is forced to sign up for subscription to take a trial.

No-one is tied to a yearly anything, you clearly haven't looked at the options.

At this point, it appears you have gone past making accusations about my intentions and are now making stuff up about how we sell the product.

$50/month or $500/year for live trading & nothing at all to do with the base package.

As for free trials - I already stated, it's to avoid lots of tirekickers. There's people on this very forum that have emailed me and asked for a free trial and got one without an upfront payment.

You see - I just want to hold the hands of people that are serious and I DO HOLD HANDS. So - if someone goes to the site and signs up for any package - with or without subscription, they get all their money back if it's not for them.

If someone contacts me directly and asks for a trial, I give them a free one with no obligation as they took the time to reach out to me. If someone asks me lots of questions about comparisons to their existing product or use in their market, again I send them a link for a totally free trial. A link I don't make public but use at my discretion.

You seem to have quite a beef and have jumped to many conclusions based on scant information.

Facts are facts but your opinions about my intentions are just that - opinions. You can always pose as a customer and contact me if you want to know what's really going on.

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  #57 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 474 given, 201 received


Big Mike View Post
@Jack22,

Vendor Review threads are for customers of that vendor to share experiences. If you do not have a direct experience with the vendor, then move on.

Mike

@Jack22,

I appreciate your good intentions in raising certain issues, but you have to respect a vendor's decisions in conducting his business model. If a vendor can ensure that he delivers what he promises on his product(s), that's a huge step in the right direction, don't you think so?

While it's true that some vendors resort to certain methods to deceive people, I would suggest that you check out Pete's posts in futures.io (formerly BMT) (and other forums) to find out if he is such a vendor.

Personally, I feel that Pete has conducted himself well, both as a vendor and as a contributor, and that his reputation as a responsible vendor is important to him. The fact that he is still posting on futures.io (formerly BMT) is a really good indicator; many vendors get banned by Big Mike instead. Above all, I appreciate his insightful contributions and his effort to add depth to the discussion on order flow trading..

(Disclaimer: I have bought his software last year, so I'm his customer as well. But this post is not written in blind support of him, as I haven't used it yet. Not because I was fooled into buying it due to his "marketing tricks", but simply it's my own decision to purchase it as a form of investment for myself. I have no regrets over the purchase as future upgrades are free. Anyway, this kind of decision is beyond any vendor's purview.. Haha.. )

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  #58 (permalink)
Washington DC
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader7
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 73 since Oct 2010
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DionysusToast View Post
I have no idea what "tied to the monthly rather than yearly option means". No-one is forced to sign up for subscription to take a trial.

No-one is tied to a yearly anything, you clearly haven't looked at the options.

At this point, it appears you have gone past making accusations about my intentions and are now making stuff up about how we sell the product.

$50/month or $500/year for live trading & nothing at all to do with the base package.

As for free trials - I already stated, it's to avoid lots of tirekickers. There's people on this very forum that have emailed me and asked for a free trial and got one without an upfront payment.

You see - I just want to hold the hands of people that are serious and I DO HOLD HANDS. So - if someone goes to the site and signs up for any package - with or without subscription, they get all their money back if it's not for them.

If someone contacts me directly and asks for a trial, I give them a free one with no obligation as they took the time to reach out to me. If someone asks me lots of questions about comparisons to their existing product or use in their market, again I send them a link for a totally free trial. A link I don't make public but use at my discretion.

You seem to have quite a beef and have jumped to many conclusions based on scant information.

Facts are facts but your opinions about my intentions are just that - opinions. You can always pose as a customer and contact me if you want to know what's really going on.

See attached for the steps to get the free 3 month trial, which includes the subscription--tied to yearly instead of monthly.

@fourtiwinks, just because he gives information to some that is valuable, which I would do the same if I was just selling a "tool" instead of a system, it is smart, that does not mean people aren't allowed to disagree with that vendor. This is a forum where people get to disagree and agree with vendors.

Its good when people come to your defense, but it is also good when people have all of the information, which includes information that everyone might not agree with and might not want to speak up about. They have had their voice now. Good luck, I never said it was a bad tool, because I think people find value in it, which makes it a good tool, just disagree with policies, which this forum was made for.

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  #59 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 474 given, 201 received


Jack22 View Post
...See attached for the steps to get the free 3 month trial, which includes the subscription--tied to yearly instead of monthly... ...Good luck, I never said it was a bad tool, because I think people find value in it, which makes it a good tool, just disagree with policies, which this forum was made for.

Yup, it's great that this forum allows a difference of opinions..

Btw I just check Pete's website and it clearly states that there are monthly and yearly options after the three months' trial. The fact that Pete offers three month's free trial is another good indication of the type of support he is willing to provide..

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  #60 (permalink)
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Jack22 View Post
See attached for the steps to get the free 3 month trial, which includes the subscription--tied to yearly instead of monthly.

sigh.....

3 purchase options....

1 - buy the product with no live trading
2 - buy the product with live trading - monthly or annually

whatever you do - you can get a refund

2 trial options
1 - go thru the website and pay
2 - send me an email/skype message and don't pay

It's not rocket science. You can assume all you want about INTENT but this is simply your OPINION and no matter how often you repeat that my intentions are to rip people off, it still remains an opinion.

You want to twist the above into me intending to rip people off and that is way off mark. That is fact, not opinion.

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