Was just wondering if anyone here had any experience with Rick Vinecki and his site called Beyond profile.
Here's his site: Market Profile, Auction Market Theory, Futures Trading, Next Generation. Any comments welcome, good, bad, indifferent.....
As a side note Rick was with Valuezonetrading a few years ago and broke off on his own.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on futures io?
So after seeing what seemed like a pretty interesting webinar that focused on market profile type trading, I decided to take a trial on this room. What a disappointment. He sat there all day staring at the ES (and only the ES) and muttering about how it was a "tough day" which indeed, it was rather choppy. Don't know how he'd see it with all clutter on the chart, though. Anyway...late in the day, the market broke to the downside and made a rather sizable move and he didn't even notice it or if he did, he certainly didn't trade it! I never went back.
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Actually it's been a while since I spent any time with Rick and after seeing no responses to this thread I thought I would pay him a visit. I have been in the room (on and off) since Monday and know for a fact there were some good trades. I didn't take all his trades because I wasn't monitoring all the time but I think it's a mistake to write him off if he had a bad day somewhere. I do know that today anyway he had a good day. He really likes to buy at the bottom and sell at the top and go with the trend more or less.
I spent a month with them and they were not a good fit for me. I never did understand there trades while I was there, but that was my fault. I did not know much, how to use MP in my trading before or after my month with them. This was around April of 2011.
They offer a one week free trial. They may be a good fit for you.
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No he does not show his dom, he gives live commentary and calls the trades ahead of time...how much notice you get depends on conditions but, most all of the time you have plenty of notce that something is coming up.
He will also tell you if it's risky or not in his view and what targets and stops are before the trades are taken.
You just see the charts he's looking at as far as what's on your screen. There is a chat for additional commentary and/or if you have questions etc....
I've listened to Rick several times- when he was with Trade Angle Strategies, when he was with Value Zone Trading and when he started Beyond Profile. Ever since I have listened to him he talks the ES but has an affinity for the NQ in particular and several stocks like Apple (I can't remember the others he looked at). Most of his focus was on the other markets and it seemed as though the ES was an after-thought. He even did a webinar for ICE talking about the TF. Rick doesn't even trade the TF yet he was doing a webinar on it. To me, imo, it seems unethical to give a webinar on a market you don't even look at or trade. I learned from one of his co-moderators that when he was moderating the room he was not trading live. That was surprising as he, like so many others in this business, passed himself off as an expert willing to put money on the line for the information he was spewing. He was not so willing. There was nothing in his trading results that convinced me to stay. His results were a little to hit and miss for me. I kept testing his rooms because I wanted to believe in him and his methods. I wanted to believe that with each room something would change and he was getting results that were more in harmony with the expert he was passing himself off to be. With each room- nothing changed. Same method- same Rick- same results.
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I spent some time with Value Zone and then with Rick when he moved on to Beyond Profile. They all sincerely believe in Market Profile and the auction theory does make a lot of sense. But I never found that niche that gave me actionable signals accurately. Many do I suppose, but it eluded me.
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Lydia Langston associated with Rick when he was with TAS. He ran the Equities room and she was a member of that room. When Rick left TAS they eventually teamed up to form Value Zone Trading. The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. Her method and style directly mimicks Rick's. Lydia used to post her trade results on her site. She no longer does that. When I looked at her trading results they were not very impressive. I noticed that her training material is pretty reasonably priced at under $400. But by the same token, if her results aren't very good how much can you benefit from what she has to teach? I would contact her and ask her for a trial. She used to offer it. If she is unwilling to I wouldn't waste my time with her. But I'm sure she'll give you one.
I'm going to add this here because it's somewhat related. There were three that stemmed from that TAS room. Rick and Lydia were two and the other was Pam Ludwig. When Pam left TAS she formed her own room called Traders News Network. In my opinion Pam was the best of the three. Her room was awesome. She was charging $150/mo for a few years. By her own admission she wasn't very good at marketing and had to close it- it just wasn't cost effective. Pam was the best I've seen at identifying potential turning points in the ES, YM, NQ, TF and a few other markets. She's said that if she could get, I think she said10, people to make a 6 month commitment she'd open the room back up. I wish she would. Even if she charged $250/mo it would be worth it. You can check out a few of her webinars on Trader Kingdom.
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Aragorn is correct. Rick Vinecki knows alot about MP. Pamela Ludwig knows even more but the big difference is she is able to break it down into an understandable and actionable form. I was in the Kwikpop (no longer a user) room when Rick was the moderator. I was also in Pamela Ludwigs room for the last 3 months of its existence. Most educational 3 months of my career. All the books on MP (including Dalton) fail to deliver a simple but effective approach to actual and accurate order entry. Pamela was able to teach it from a traders perspective as that is what she is--a trader.
For the last year she has been refining her work and developing her "Ludwig Levels" for NT. They were released in September. A series of lines appear on your NT charts which are fully customizeable before the overnight session opens. If the major levels are violated during a session, the levels are automatically recalculated to reflect recent price action. This is done in real time and a new set of levels appears on your screen. This allows you to not fly blind after a big move occurs in something like the 6E. I would not trade without them. Murray Math, Camarilla pivots and all other pivots, although helpful, do not compare. The accuracy of the levels is often frightening. No fibs are used so if that is critical to you then you should pass but I would suggest taking her free trial. A lucid one page guide tells you all you need to know. A knowledge of Market Profile is not needed. The monthly rate is extremely reasonable. There is alot of crap out there as we all know. I know this is one of the few exceptions.
You can PM me for her contact info. I do not have a dog in this fight--I just wanted to let members know about a great trading tool as this forum has been so generous to me.
Aragorn, if you find 8 other takers let me know but I think Pamela got burned out on the chat room world. She is glad to teach but not hold hands and you are right, she hates marketing.
wireford
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About Ludwig's levels i agree with what has been said. I tested them on four markets last year for two months and if i compare with all the other vendors like JSServices, ToTheTick, PivotFarm and apaZones (see this thread) they are cheaper and as accurate if not better because they are updated as a new auction area is being discovered by market makers. Here are some pictures i took during the holidays with her permission.
P.S. i do not use them anymore not because they don't work but because i realized they are not necessary to make money. You can quite easily become addicted to such tool and even lose your ability to find significant levels by your own.
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For whatever it is worth, and I know this is not my thread, I appreciate all the incredible feedback. There are so few truly credible vendors out there who are the real deal. I concur with what has been said about Rick (and Lydia and Pam). They all stem from a MP background. But as was pointed out in an earlier post, some of them were not my particular 'niche". I think that threads and posts like these truly capture the value of forums like Big Mike's. Members sharing their direct and honest experiences. Thanks again to all of those who contributed.
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BTW, if you like market profile / volume profile, FuturesTrader71 will be doing a series of presentations on futures.io (formerly BMT) and his first one is next Saturday, Feb 4.
Not as much as i used to do. I still draw a custom profile once in a week just to confirm what i see on a chart makes sense or to find exact placement of a high volume node. Apart from that, i like to use concepts that focus on supply/demand as can be found in Sam Seiden's and Lance Begg's articles and Wide Range Bars analysis from the StrategyLab.
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I tested Pamela's levels on 6E, indicator was just great. I had one month test run. I could not use it, since at the time she did not offer FX support. Pamela is easy to work with and support was great. Her email and URL are below.
it looks like they are now trying to sell the Hover dam. 3000 to 5000 degrees. special indicators. market profile is not a easy quick study that can be over come by any special software or course. this vendor has been a traveling salesman most of the time learning the tricks of the trade as he moved on. i have never seen a vendor that could trade that is why they are vendors. pinquin birds ...birds that can not fly. this vendors as more than one red flag.
