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JPJ Trading Review Market Profile (www.jpjtrading.com)
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JPJ Trading Review Market Profile (www.jpjtrading.com)

  #121 (permalink)
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san diego
 
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Narcissus View Post
This review is from a less experienced trader but I have decent experience in distinguishing real from bogus. HE IS REAL AND HAS A SOUND UNDERSTANDING OF MARKET PROFILE BUT TOO PROUD TO ADMIT THAT HE WAS NOT HAVING A GOOD DAY. He is more like a trading buddy rather than a teacher but his style is not for everyone. It could work for me though.

It was NOT a good day for JP. He was stopped out once, scratched a trade and let a small winner slip back.

What I liked - he pre defined his entry points, explained the logic (some of it), his stop loss and the target. He didn't fake entries or exits. His risk reward ratio seemed good, more than 3 to 1. His analysis is similar to the guy I respect - FT71 who I believe was his student. The best part for me was he realised within seconds that the price action was NOT going in his favour. Though he went quite whilst on trade, he did his best to give a live commentary about foot print action. He also patiently sat on a losing trade for a little bit, only 2 - 3 pts and eventually scratched the trade when he realised market has changed.

What I didn't like - his reaction after a losing trade. Instead of going back on the trade setup and doing a mini post mortem for educational purposes, he ranted for a bit about how he never said that he was better than others etc.

His analysis and prediction of price movement was generally right i.e Down Move but just like a regular trader (like me) he kept looking for a long trade, became bit defensive, then funny again but with less confidence. Worse, an hour later he said he was looking for a short trade whilst he was sitting on a long trade- DIDN'T LIKE THAT FLIP FLOP AT ALL. If you are real trader, you know that win/loss ratio often means very little. It's all about risk reward. Even with 40% win rate, you could make a living if you let runners run (which is definitely not my strength). Infact, that's the reason why I was considering joining his trading room due to his apparent ability to hang on to winning trades.

Overall, I think he is a genuine trader with good understanding about Market Profile. His analysis and prediction was spot on but NOT his execution. I don't believe when he says he doesn't care if you sign up or not. Ofcourse he cares - It's predictable income compared to unpredictable trading income. I think that's his marketing style and by repeating that people are signing up, it encourages more to do the same. I don't think there is anything wrong or shady about that though. However I am not paying 1500 dollars for something which can be learnt free here or from a book. I will continue to learn for free from FT71's daily analysis and NOT signing up for JPJ for now. I may change my mind after a day or two of watching him or after 2 weeks if I think FT71's free material is not enough. Please note that I am not prepared to pay for FT71's paid material as well. Not yet anyways.


You gave an interesting and honest analysis. I have an indicator that gives a sell signal when the 13 ema crosses below the 20 ema (on IWM). It gave a sell signal on the 3 minute chart at the beginning of the session. I wonder what is the use of market profile if it can't make money on a strong down trend day ?


Last edited by jodistrict; March 26th, 2015 at 01:27 AM.
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  #122 (permalink)
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EMAs vs Market Profile


jodistrict View Post
You gave an interesting and honest analysis. I have an indicator that gives a sell signal when the 13 ema crosses below the 20 ema (on IWM). It gave a sell signal on the 3 minute chart at the beginning of the session. I wonder what is the use of market profile if you can't make money on a strong down trend day ?


I am sure you heard this from experienced traders before. I wish trading signals are as simple as EMA's cross over. Yes, it works great on a trend day but they don't happen very often. I got chopped out royally on range days with EMA based entries. Even when you get into a good trade, it's damn hard to hang on to winning trades for a number of psychological reasons.

I like Market Profile because it gives you potential areas for reversal or breakout so that you aren't glued to your screen for the entire season & it's easier to pick your stops/targets. Morover, my personality is to make sense of market movement i.e why is it moving up or down. I don't believe in random movements anymore. I think there is a method in this market madness.

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  #123 (permalink)
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Narcissus View Post
I am sure you heard this from experienced traders before. I wish trading signals are as simple as EMA's cross over. Yes, it works great on a trend day but they don't happen very often. I got chopped out royally on range days with EMA based entries. Even when you get into a good trade, it's damn hard to hang on to winning trades for a number of psychological reasons.

I like Market Profile because it gives you potential areas for reversal or breakout so that you aren't glued to your screen for the entire season & it's easier to pick your stops/targets. Morover, my personality is to make sense of market movement i.e why is it moving up or down. I don't believe in random movements anymore. I think there is a method in this market madness.

But according to your description, his strategy is to let the runners run and stay in the trade. This was the type of day where the market moves vertical and you do that.

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  #124 (permalink)
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Narcissus View Post
I am sure you heard this from experienced traders before. I wish trading signals are as simple as EMA's cross over. Yes, it works great on a trend day but they don't happen very often. I got chopped out royally on range days with EMA based entries. Even when you get into a good trade, it's damn hard to hang on to winning trades for a number of psychological reasons.

I like Market Profile because it gives you potential areas for reversal or breakout so that you aren't glued to your screen for the entire season & it's easier to pick your stops/targets. Morover, my personality is to make sense of market movement i.e why is it moving up or down. I don't believe in random movements anymore. I think there is a method in this market madness.

@Narcissus

I think you have missed the point raised by the previous poster - i.e 'What is the point of Market Profile if it can't make money on a strong down trend day?'. I do not think it was about MP vs EMA crossovers.

You also said - 'Even when you get into a good trade, it's damn hard to hang on to winning trades for a number of psychological reasons'. My question is - if this JPJ is such a great Market Profiler and trader, why is he unable to hold trades for large targets in a very strong trend day? Surely he has been trading long enough to be able to identify a good trend day earlier than us mere mortals.

Maybe you should look for another teacher, or probably try and come up with your own way of reading a price chart.

Regards,

Dudley

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  #125 (permalink)
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Teacher vs Trader


mrmuggins View Post
My question is - if this JPJ is such a great Market Profiler and trader, why is he unable to hold trades for large targets in a very strong trend day? Surely he has been trading long enough to be able to identify a good trend day earlier than us mere mortals.

Maybe you should look for another teacher, or probably try and come up with your own way of reading a price chart.


Please note that these are my observations during the last 2 days only as a trial member with no payment.

I don't know whether he is a great trader or not but appears to understand Market Profile well and taught it reasonable well in a unique style. As I mentioned, his analysis of which direction market will move in various scenarios were spot on. i.e if 68.50 is tested, then next stop will be 60 etc etc. However, I myself have done that countless time and yet lost money.

After listeneing to few gurus/teachers (thankfully only 2 so far, both good- Elder and Barry Taylor) I now know that I have to find a style that works for ME. I agree with you when say I have to come up with my own way of reading a price chart but to achieve THAT, I must observe a handful of logical and somtimes nonsensical approach. JPJ's approach looked logical to me. Whether he makes money or not is somewhat irrelevant b'cas I won't be able to replicate anyone's method. Even the well respected & very successful traders' (tigertrader and BigMike) methodology don't fit my personality IMHO.

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  #126 (permalink)
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san diego
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Narcissus View Post
Please note that these are my observations during the last 2 days only as a trial member with no payment.

I don't know whether he is a great trader or not but appears to understand Market Profile well and taught it reasonable well in a unique style. As I mentioned, his analysis of which direction market will move in various scenarios were spot on. i.e if 68.50 is tested, then next stop will be 60 etc etc. However, I myself have done that countless time and yet lost money.

After listeneing to few gurus/teachers (thankfully only 2 so far, both good- Elder and Barry Taylor) I now know that I have to find a style that works for ME. I agree with you when say I have to come up with my own way of reading a price chart but to achieve THAT, I must observe a handful of logical and somtimes nonsensical approach. JPJ's approach looked logical to me. Whether he makes money or not is somewhat irrelevant b'cas I won't be able to replicate anyone's method. Even the well respected & very successful traders' (tigertrader and BigMike) methodology don't fit my personality IMHO.

I think your observations of the trial are useful to traders. It would be interesting to see your conclusions after the final two days. It kind of confirms for me what I already suspected. The market profile is great for giving after the fact explanations of what happened but not that useful for making trading decisions. According to your description, on a strong down trend day an experienced market profile trader essentially ended up scalping and the market profile didn't give him the confidence to hold a position. In fact, he was trying to fade the move.

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  #127 (permalink)
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Decision made about JPJ membership.


jodistrict View Post
I think your observations of the trial are useful to traders. It would be interesting to see your conclusions after the final two days.

Today JPJ had a winner of 8 points, long from lower value area to higher. He wanted to add more positions after it went against him (adding to a loser) but didn't get filled in as he went up. I didn't watch them but I believe him.

However, his style of entering on breakouts and at extremes doesn't suit my style. I was hoping for him to use Delta or Foot Print to justify such risky entries but didn't see much of that either. I am also less convinced about his explanation for market action at key areas of acceptance and rejection. He probably has better answers for paid members but to risk 500 and possibly upto 1500 dollars to find that out doesn't sound like a good risk reward for me. Boy, I think like a trader now.

So, NOT SIGNING up for JPJ. May consider after a month or two.

Right now, I am happy with free material from FT71.


Last edited by Narcissus; March 27th, 2015 at 10:44 AM.
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  #128 (permalink)
Slow Learner, Slow Burner
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Narcissus,

I read your posts and I believe they were a disservice to JP.

I, for one, feel grateful that he passes on his knowledge to others as do other members of his community.

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  #129 (permalink)
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Narcissus View Post
Today JPJ had a winner of 8 points, long from lower value area to higher. He wanted to add more positions after it went against him (adding to a loser) but didn't get filled in as he went up. I didn't watch them but I believe him.

However, his style of entering on breakouts and at extremes don't suit my style. I was hoping him to use Delta or Foot Print to justify such risky entries but didn't see much of that either. I am also less convinced about his explanation for market action at key areas of acceptance and rejection. He probably has better answers for paid members but to risk 500 and possibly upto 1500 dollars to find that out doesn't sound like a good risk reward for me. Boy, I think like a trader now.

So, NOT SIGNING up for JPJ. May consider after a month or two.

Right now, I am happy with free material from FT71.


Topstep starts a "Free" course Monday which covers the same topic so if price is a concern to you then maybe you can catch a few new ideas to add to your arsenal:
https://www.topsteptrader.com/blog/free-daily-educational-courses-with-john-hoagland

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  #130 (permalink)
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hoolio View Post
Narcissus,

I read your posts and I believe they were a disservice to JP.

I, for one, feel grateful that he passes on his knowledge to others as do other members of his community.

This is a forum for vendor and product reviews so that traders can make informed decisions about vendors who are charging money for services. Whether it is a disservice to JP is irrelevant.

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