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Viper Trading Systems Indicator
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Viper Trading Systems Indicator

  #41 (permalink)
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Ronan,

Do you move your targets based on the pivots--which are not part of AT--or stay strictly within the AT parameters?

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  #42 (permalink)
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It depends on the trade sometimes, if it is one tick away from filling and cant get that last tick (have limit orders on not market if touched) I may move it up one to fill. Usually I leave it work away on the side as I'm busy with my manual trades, and the 6's tend to trend a lot. I hope that answers your question

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  #43 (permalink)
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ronan2505 View Post
It depends on the trade sometimes, if it is one tick away from filling and cant get that last tick (have limit orders on not market if touched) I may move it up one to fill. Usually I leave it work away on the side as I'm busy with my manual trades, and the 6's tend to trend a lot. I hope that answers your question

These new scripts, 6E and 6B, have been available for about a month.

Have you been profitable with them?

Does Viper provide backtest and historical statistical performance on these AT before they release them? Or even an equity curve? If not, WHY?

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  #44 (permalink)
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Hi Zoethecus

If I can answer your questions as you have written them,

The 6's, yes I have been profitable with them, There have been some days where my max tick loss has been hit, but the gains far outway the loss, so I am happy with the 6's. I do change some of the settings on them, i.e. breakeven is set to 19, I have that at 17 things like that.

Regarding backtesting, Using these stratgies it is impossible to back test in the way of putting in a time frame i.e. 6.30am - 10am (PST) and see how it did over the past 3 months say. as lets take the Russell for example, you wouldnt trade it the day before a FOMC, or like this Friday coming we have the UOM report out at 6.55am (PST) so It will not be traded in the first session.

However a lady called Jane who is also a AT subscriber has done an independent study on the TF going back to October 2009 (I will attach it as a zip file for you to see), in it you can see the days it had losses, profits, hit max loss, hit cool blue, hit big green etc. She spent a lot of time on it (more patience than I have). And you will see that for the period of October to December 09 (which was when it was emailed out to us)it did well. It does match my takings on the times I traded it (with one or 2 ticks slippage you do get on the russell as it can be such a fast puppy).

AT's are not for eveyone and they will have losses, there is no AT that will not have a losing trade. I like the fact I can change the parameters within the AT for my own risk tollerance.I like how easy it is to understand the settings, and to change them, no complication.


I hope that answers your questions.

Ronan

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: zip Jane's Test.zip (199.8 KB, 97 views)
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  #45 (permalink)
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Ronan, thanks for the answer.

Has the developer shared any of the concept of the AT with you. In other words, is it a momentum strategy, volatility, pattern recognition or something else?

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  #46 (permalink)
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ronan2505 View Post
Hi Zoethecus

If I can answer your questions as you have written them,

The 6's, yes I have been profitable with them, There have been some days where my max tick loss has been hit, but the gains far outway the loss, so I am happy with the 6's. I do change some of the settings on them, i.e. breakeven is set to 19, I have that at 17 things like that.

Regarding backtesting, Using these stratgies it is impossible to back test in the way of putting in a time frame i.e. 6.30am - 10am (PST) and see how it did over the past 3 months say. as lets take the Russell for example, you wouldnt trade it the day before a FOMC, or like this Friday coming we have the UOM report out at 6.55am (PST) so It will not be traded in the first session.

However a lady called Jane who is also a AT subscriber has done an independent study on the TF going back to October 2009 (I will attach it as a zip file for you to see), in it you can see the days it had losses, profits, hit max loss, hit cool blue, hit big green etc. She spent a lot of time on it (more patience than I have). And you will see that for the period of October to December 09 (which was when it was emailed out to us)it did well. It does match my takings on the times I traded it (with one or 2 ticks slippage you do get on the russell as it can be such a fast puppy).

AT's are not for eveyone and they will have losses, there is no AT that will not have a losing trade. I like the fact I can change the parameters within the AT for my own risk tollerance.I like how easy it is to understand the settings, and to change them, no complication.


I hope that answers your questions.

Ronan


Ronan,

Jane spent a lot of time and trouble providing backtest results of the RussellsViper AT, even more than I did with it and the other Viper ATs. Kudos to her for doing her due diligence. But the issue remains: Why doesn't the vendor provide this level of detailed data for its own products? Answer: It's either too much trouble and they can be fully subscribed without it, or the data would reveal abysmal performance as it would have with their earlier ATs. This is not the modus operandi of a quality company.

-Tom

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  #47 (permalink)
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Tom

I would disagree with your assessment about them not being a quality company. I know several other companies that charge several thousand dollars for there AT products, either do or don't provide historical testing, but in either case it's hard to match results.

These guys are quite candid about when not to trade with the AT's which many don't say anything about. Also instead of having to lay out thousands and then try and get it back, I believe you can trial it, or at least 1 month costs only $299, and you can go month by month. So if if pays for itself great, otherwise drop it.

Pete

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  #48 (permalink)
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Peter2150 View Post
Tom

I would disagree with your assessment about them not being a quality company. I know several other companies that charge several thousand dollars for there AT products, either do or don't provide historical testing, but in either case it's hard to match results.

These guys are quite candid about when not to trade with the AT's which many don't say anything about. Also instead of having to lay out thousands and then try and get it back, I believe you can trial it, or at least 1 month costs only $299, and you can go month by month. So if if pays for itself great, otherwise drop it.

Pete

The whole purpose of using AT is to eliminate the babysitting, discretion, and emotions from trading amd let the robot do its thing. Aside from trading around news, which I believe makes sense, these guys are curve fitting the strategies with extraneous pivots and adding other parameters about when to trade and not. So, the human involvelment ,i.e., discretion is now part of these systems, defeating the purpose.

The new currency systems are very young and, again, are being beta tested with paying customers like the original Cobra which, incidentally, blew up. Also, there is no record of the daily perfromance for 6E, 6B or ZN on the website. Ask yourself why.

Time will tell if these systems have legs, but if history is any indication, they probably won't. The success rate for AT is no different than discretionary methods. Over 90% lose money after slippage, commissions, and fees.

The company is getting ready to release even more AT for forex pairs. I guess if you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick.

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  #49 (permalink)
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this is impressive, how this thread has progressed, both with active customers attesting to the good they have experienced and the caution expressed by others regarding AT (auto trading) systems.

I was impressed with the results on the 6's (emini currency contracts) that were posted. I also thought that it was very wise to have segregated funds designated solely for the auto trader so that proper account results could be ascertained, separated from his discretionary trading account.

A word of general caution regarding jumping into currency pair (the true form of forex or foreign currency) trading verses emini currency contract trading. There remains substantial customer protection and risk management procedures actively used in the retail accounts regarding protecting the margin and ability to maintain a position in emini trading that doesn't necessarily always exist in equal measure with formalized F/X currency pair trading.

It continues to be reported that the latter have customer experiences that have run into substantial negative equity (i.e. debit account balances) instead of being forced out of their position in an equivalent emini currency position. Simply put venturing into those waters, one doesn't have the same federal oversight and protection that the various commodity agencies offer.

The new AT for F/X pairs shows awesome possibilities, but as with anything that cycles, if you join in on a down cycle, you endure the pain before the gain, if you join in on an up cycle, when the AT is producing awesome results, you have a testimony similar to the european trader listed above. One only knows by going live, not simulated.

happy trading to all, and to all former licensed brokers / traders amongst us, try to remember your licensing exam questions and discussions (just as a word of caution)

cheers all

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  #50 (permalink)
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When I subscribed the method used to inform traders when to trade or not was a type of market profile. If the prior day's trading range was compact, they told you to trade expecting the range to be large. If the prior days trading range was expanded, they told you not to trade. Maybe it has changed, or they got a new crystal ball.

When I went live, there were 3 drawdown days in a row. The total was 110 ES ticks. If one is unfortunate enough for those to be their first 3 days using the AT, I doubt that same person is going to have the intestinal fortitude to let the AT trade wide open after that.

Since the company does not provide an equity curve, one will have a difficult time doing any due diligence. I believe, I have exhausted what I have to say about these guys.

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