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Viper Trading Systems Indicator


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Viper Trading Systems Indicator

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  #101 (permalink)
Nashville TN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
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Zoethecus View Post
On a 24 hour period, or even a few days, NT doesn't have material historical data errors for tick or range charts, but going back as little as a week it can. Time charts don't have such an issue.

The SIM refresh that Viper employs to post its daily results are the ideal prices the system would have fired the trade.

The killer is slippage.

Although I can't confirm it, Viper once had about 250 paid subscribers after the Russell was released. Who knows how many were trading live, but if half were at the two contract level, that's 250 contracts firing AT THE MARKET and the Russell simply can't handle that sort of demand without prices shooting away from the AT original entry; it's simply way to thin and at times only less than 50 contracts are available on a side.

Thus, live traders had much worse results than the hypothetical Viper results.


How can the historical data get that polluted? Isn't it saved as it is collected and available thereafter?

Maybe there's a business opportunity here... I've heard it said that reliable accurate timely data is the last frontier of retail trading. (After a charting platform that doesn't choke).

I agree slippage will change backtested results for the worse. That means my historical-data-produced backtest of Viper's ATs are the best case scenarios. Yikes!

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  #102 (permalink)
Washington DC
 
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Zoethecus View Post
How many have you tired and what do you mean by "effective."

2 and a half. Tried two, and couldn't make money with either. Looked at Viper's autotrader, and it didn't even run consistently, so I never seriously considered it.

Effective. Exactly what you are talking about. Making money.

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  #103 (permalink)
Capitol City,NC
 
 
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tomgilb View Post
rubberduck,

Please explain why analysis based on reloaded charts would be far from accurate.

It seems to me that the script would react the same to the price action regardless, except for slippage and historical data errors. The backtest analysis should not be significantly different from what would have actually happened.

-Tom

Tom,
I think Zoethecus summed it up accurately, slippage is the problem. Accuracy is lost when the live and reloaded charts get out of sync.

When using the russell autotrader live, my entries were off 2-5 ticks from the reloaded chart. If the reloaded chart hit it's first target then headed in the other direction and hit breakeven then it's looking for another trade, but I'm still in the trade.

One day I was stopped out in around 10 seconds. The script fired a long trade, then the price started dropping very quickly. The reloaded chart fired a reverse while the price was dropping, but in live trading it didn't reverse. I was stopped out and the reloaded chart was still in the trade.

To be fair, some days the charts do sync up pretty closely.

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  #104 (permalink)
Sydney, NS
 
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I looked at their stuff this summer when they were announced as partners. I did like the clean, simple charts their indicator-based system produced. Breakouts with longer-term trend. Simple. Good.

They made a huge error, imo, by trying to automate and not only that, selling individual modules custom-fit for each particular index market. Over-optimization, clearly, not to mention greed. At this point they went full-tilt boogy into marketing hype type activity as their prime mode versus a 'we are traders and we can help you trade too' type approach. I would be very surprised if they can be consistent with their systems without having to issue endless re-releases every few weeks/months for each of them after a wicked DD period which few, if any, could weather in practice.

I suspect the only day-trading automated systems that can work are those based on very definable patterns, usually early in the am cash session or late. Like opening range breakouts, range expansion extremes (OB/OS), things like that. Smoothed indies will rarely hold up in any market, let alone the indexes, over time.

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  #105 (permalink)
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cclsys View Post

They made a huge error, imo, by trying to automate and not only that, selling individual modules custom-fit for each particular index market. Over-optimization, clearly, not to mention greed. At this point they went full-tilt boogy into marketing hype type activity as their prime mode versus a 'we are traders and we can help you trade too' type approach. I would be very surprised if they can be consistent with their systems without having to issue endless re-releases every few weeks/months for each of them after a wicked DD period which few, if any, could weather in practice.

I agree. I still like there simple charts. Problem was the didn't automate Viper, but they picked up Rick Straiton's stuff. Total black box. Some of the things the said couldn't be done, made me very leary as I knew they could. Then I saw the draw downs on the way to profits and knew it would never be for me.

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  #106 (permalink)
Cuijk
 
 
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Well, they did not make a Viper autotrader but I know someone who did....Daxtrading.nl

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  #107 (permalink)
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Maxxi View Post
Well, they did not make a Viper autotrader but I know someone who did....Daxtrading.nl

Early on, Marten from daxtrading.nl was a contributor to Viper, or rather a preferred customer, who would join in the live chat discussions that none of the regular folks were allowed to. He vanished and we never heard from him again at Viper. I wonder who coded his autotrader?

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  #108 (permalink)
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rubberduck View Post
Tom,
I think Zoethecus summed it up accurately, slippage is the problem. Accuracy is lost when the live and reloaded charts get out of sync.

When using the russell autotrader live, my entries were off 2-5 ticks from the reloaded chart. If the reloaded chart hit it's first target then headed in the other direction and hit breakeven then it's looking for another trade, but I'm still in the trade.

One day I was stopped out in around 10 seconds. The script fired a long trade, then the price started dropping very quickly. The reloaded chart fired a reverse while the price was dropping, but in live trading it didn't reverse. I was stopped out and the reloaded chart was still in the trade.

To be fair, some days the charts do sync up pretty closely.

I knew that slippage was an issue, but I didn't realize it was to that extent. I guess the thin market and the rapid movements of the TF both work against you. My recharted backtest of the RussellsViper showed it to be the best of the bad. In reality, it probably had even greater drawdowns.

-Tom

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  #109 (permalink)
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tomgilb View Post
Early on, Marten from daxtrading.nl was a contributor to Viper, or rather a preferred customer, who would join in the live chat discussions that none of the regular folks were allowed to. He vanished and we never heard from him again at Viper. I wonder who coded his autotrader?

Don't know factually, but I looked at Marten's website, and the posts, sure seem to have the look of Rick's work. Also the "Tweaker" used because Ninja doesn't remember strategy limitations also sound like Rick. I know of another coder who got around that problem very cleanly, but I don't think Rick knew how to do it.

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  #110 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
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tomgilb View Post
Early on, Marten from daxtrading.nl was a contributor to Viper, or rather a preferred customer, who would join in the live chat discussions that none of the regular folks were allowed to. He vanished and we never heard from him again at Viper. I wonder who coded his autotrader?

Marten probably realized early on, that Viper had no business selling AT and moved on.

Have any of you used his AT? If so, create another thread to discuss.

Yesterday, Viper released a handful of forex pairs for AT. They claim 3 months of backtesting showed good results, but they are not publishing them. It's clear that the founding Viper owners, Gary and Charles, don't have a clue what Rich Staition is doing. I think the lion's share of the $299/month fee goes to Rich and the other two get a commission. They seem to be in the dark and totally uneducated about any of these forex products.

I wouldn't touch these things without seeing at least a year of REALTIME trading statements.

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  #111 (permalink)
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Over the last month, I have been getting email updates from Maarten, and his system looks, on its face, decent enough. However, based on my Viper AT experience, for now sticking to manual entries and exits. Like the idea of blaming myself for losers and winners.

I sent Maarten an email with the link to this thread and asked him if he would join in and comment. Time will tell if he does.

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  #112 (permalink)
Capitol City,NC
 
 
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It seems like Maarten has learned from the viper team how to deal with emails. Unless you are a prospective subscriber you will be ignored.

When I was thinking of becoming a viper subscriber I emailed a question and it was answered promptly and thoroughly, then when I was a subscriber I sent 5 emails. They only replied to one, it had one compliment and 3 questions, Charles' reply was "thanks, glad you like it."

In one webinar a question was asked if they were going to hire someone for customer service, Gary said that he thought they were doing just fine, that gave me a chuckle. Most companies I'm paying on a monthly basis give me excellent customer service and want to keep me as a customer, except Charter Cable.

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  #113 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
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ronan2505 View Post
Zoethecus, I dont know what data feed your using but I'd get it checked out, I use Zen Fire.

I have just pulled up the russell (not trading it at the moment), and have attached the picture.

As you can see it took the trade short at 635.2 short, then retraced to 367.1 (1 tick from stop) and went into a good short, then took another short which was stopped out, now it's in a nice long on 2nd contract, so ticks today,

trade 1, 14 + 29 = 43
Trade 2, - 18 x 2 = -36
Trade 3. 14 and trailing stop is at 635.9 so thats minimum of another 24 ticks = 38 ticks

Total so far on Russell - 45 ticks, thats $450 if the 3rd trade stops out at its present trailing stop.

You obviously have issues with viper that have nothing to do with the AT, and why if you are so dead against their system are you a subscriber to the AT and spending $299 a month?

We dont' need no stinkin' Viper! Here's your snake!

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #114 (permalink)
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TheWizard View Post
We dont' need no stinkin' Viper! Here's your snake!

Hey Wiz,

Excellent work. Could you take a moment and tell us what we are looking at?

Thanks, Jeff

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  #115 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
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Jeff Castille View Post
Hey Wiz,

Excellent work. Could you take a moment and tell us what we are looking at?

Thanks, Jeff

I posted that chart in response to a 4 range chart someone had posted showing Vipers entries / exits, with which I did not agree. You see, we really don't need no stinkin' Viper!
TF. 1/13/10. 6 MedianRenko ticks.
Panel # 1 = ADXVMA_Alerts_V05 (I think this is a modification (not mine) of ADXVMA_Alerts_Rjay (Rjay's original. Thank you, Rjay! !) - works the same - set to 5 period.
Panel # 2 = MACDZeroLagColors_V2 (my modification w/ background colors) set to 12,40,40
Panel #3 = SMIMultiColorWizMod (my modification of Cory's SMIMultiColor w/ background colors) set to 40,1,1,20,40
Panel # 4 = LeaderOfMACD_V2 (my modification of LeaderOfMACD w/ vertical line capability on price panel. Thin Blue = possible long, Thick Blue = Go long, Thin Red = possible short, Thick Red, go short, yellow - warning of potential price direction change, set to 12,26,9)

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #116 (permalink)
NL
 
 
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gfg1 View Post
Over the last month, I have been getting email updates from Maarten, and his system looks, on its face, decent enough. However, based on my Viper AT experience, for now sticking to manual entries and exits. Like the idea of blaming myself for losers and winners.

I sent Maarten an email with the link to this thread and asked him if he would join in and comment. Time will tell if he does.

And I thought, why not...

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  #117 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Hi Wizard

How did you change the SIZE of the MurrayMath text to a larger font. Could you show me the code change, if any

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  #118 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
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perryg View Post
Hi Wizard

How did you change the SIZE of the MurrayMath text to a larger font. Could you show me the code change, if any

Right-Click on the chart panel & select PROPERTIES. You can change the font size, which makes every bit of text on the chart bigger.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #119 (permalink)
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tomgilb View Post
I knew that slippage was an issue, but I didn't realize it was to that extent. I guess the thin market and the rapid movements of the TF both work against you. My recharted backtest of the RussellsViper showed it to be the best of the bad. In reality, it probably had even greater drawdowns.

-Tom

I had another thought about why the slippage is so great with Viper's ATs. The strategies are huge and take a very long time to load on a chart, especially if you are using Market If Touched (MIT). The code probably looks like spaghetti and when an entry triggers, it takes forever to execute.

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  #120 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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THanks. It did not occur to me as so simple, I was looking at the program and not at the most logical place.

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  #121 (permalink)
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Wizard, great posts, but they are out of place here.

Pleaee start a new thread; this one is for the commercial Viper product.

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  #122 (permalink)
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Zoethecus View Post
Wizard, great posts, but they are out of place here.

Pleaee start a new thread; this one is for the commercial Viper product.

My apologies. I mis-understood the purpose of the thread.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #123 (permalink)
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TheWizard View Post
My apologies. I mis-understood the purpose of the thread.

Hey Wiz,

Why don't you open the "Wizards' Den" thread? That would be a great place for your new approach.

Thanks, Jeff

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  #124 (permalink)
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Viper 6B, 3 quick stopouts in the morning session (-$700)

Viper Russell, hit max loss (-$790) after 1 hour of trading.

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  #125 (permalink)
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Zoethecus View Post
Viper 6B, 3 quick stopouts in the morning session (-$700)

Viper Russell, hit max loss (-$790) after 1 hour of trading.

You are being a little generous with the TF chart, the day's results posted on their website is two stopped out trades, losing 80 ticks, your chart has two profitable trades with the two losers.

Go to their website and click on emini russell.

I don't have enough posts put a link or to attach the chart from their website, but I have it if anyone wants it.

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  #126 (permalink)
NL
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2010

This week I started with the MorningSignals Autotrader.

Todays result...

FDAX 03-10 5-2-2010 (6 RangeNoGap).jpg

go to my website and paste the picture link, can not post it because I have only 1 post till now

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  #127 (permalink)
sarasota fl
 
 
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Looks like more of the same. some atr system that claims to pinpoint entries. Most of the site was in Dutch [I think] so I would not get a feel for that. Bottom line for me, if you know how to trade and then trade along with the signals you will be fine. Providing you can override the machine fast enought. The fact remains if you can do that do you need the system? If you do not take the time to learn how to trade you will never make it.

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  #128 (permalink)
Frankfurt
 
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hi maarten,
if you are not Vipertrader i would suggest to start your own thread to discuss your setups - for not mixing the stuffs here too much.

And also keep the the rules in mind please :


Thanks in advance!

max-td
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  #129 (permalink)
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Took a look at them briefly... was amazed to see that one of their triggers was in fact identical to the pretty well known "Scalper" indicator... which plots WELL after a move has started most times.

Overall I found little that was of any worth and went on my merry little way.

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  #130 (permalink)
Nashville TN USA
 
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rubberduck View Post
It seems like Maarten has learned from the viper team how to deal with emails. Unless you are a prospective subscriber you will be ignored.

When I was thinking of becoming a viper subscriber I emailed a question and it was answered promptly and thoroughly, then when I was a subscriber I sent 5 emails. They only replied to one, it had one compliment and 3 questions, Charles' reply was "thanks, glad you like it."

In one webinar a question was asked if they were going to hire someone for customer service, Gary said that he thought they were doing just fine, that gave me a chuckle. Most companies I'm paying on a monthly basis give me excellent customer service and want to keep me as a customer, except Charter Cable.

My experience also, regarding Viper's response to my emails.

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  #131 (permalink)
NL
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2010


tomgilb View Post
My experience also, regarding Viper's response to my emails.

I am NOT Viper and was there only as a user of the Viper.
Regarding answering emails, I do my very best to answer everyone.

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  #132 (permalink)
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tomgilb View Post
My experience also, regarding Viper's response to my emails.

I've not bothered with Email much, but when I've needed to talk to Gary to ask questions, I've never had a problem reaching him by phone.

So my experience is the opposite.

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  #133 (permalink)
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For those of you who are lurking aorund the world of Viper eminiautotraders and are considering purchase of their garbage systems, check out the thread at mypivots. Looks like these AT scripts are the wood chippers of trading accounts.

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  #134 (permalink)
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For all of you who want to see this stuff in live action after reading all the information here on futures.io (formerly BMT)

- here you can have a look in their tradingroom today - open house so to say -

Monday Live Chat
Monday - March 15th, 2010 (6:15 - 9am PST ) (9:15am - 12pm EST)

Registration Web Link: https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/171422171

Have Fun!



..

max-td
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  #135 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
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tomgilb View Post
JJ,

Try this for NinjaTrader:

-Import the attached NinjaScript zip files using File, Utilities, Import NinjaScript... (do not unzip)
-Put the two .xml template files in your \NinjaTrader 6.5\templates\Chart folder
-Click on File, New, Chart... , select your instrument, days back, and preferred range bar size for the Trade chart, and choose the UnViper Trade template.
Repeat for the Trend chart, choosing the UnViper Trend template.

The default Trade chart range bar for ES is 5.
The default Trend chart range bar for ES is 7.
Range bar size will vary for other instruments, but the general rule is the Trend chart uses a range about 1.5 times the Trade chart.

Cautions: Both the Viper and UnViper will repaint the LinReg colors two segments back so it makes reviewing could-have trades inaccurate. And you'll find you need trading skills apart from their indicators (or the attached) to be profitable.

-Tom


You have done a great work tomgilb providing those indicators and chart templates as I just finished my 7 day trial of viper3 and I was left hungry for more.

I liked viper3's trade room but I'm not convinced to pay over 200usd now.
Thanks

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  #136 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Picotrader,
Where can these files be downloaded that your quote tomgilb memo

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  #137 (permalink)
sarasota fl
 
 
Posts: 42 since Dec 2009
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Import the attached NinjaScript zip files using File, Utilities, Import NinjaScript... (do not unzip)

sry for the bother but there was no attachment. Can you pl direct me to it.

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  #138 (permalink)
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download right here from post #8 on the first page and from download section TSSupertrend v2.3

set the _Lin_Reg_Color_Paint_V01 values to 10,30,34. Use Line: Solid ....I've tested it while in the live room for 2 weeks and it works perfect. No need to subscribe since we have our own viper.

Personally I like Gary and Charles. I use their methods and it works perfect.
What amazes me is how simple and effective it is as long as you are willing to risk a wider stop.

No stress, no split second to enter or exit but enough time to put a buy and once filled you put a stop so in case Ninja "freaks" you are protected with your broker.
They do not use any ATM strategy.

I can see from all the post that Viper3 is a small company evolving and adapting quickly as any new business. I guess their partnership with Rich is "offer the black box...come do your sellers speech and charge an extra 100usd to keep". Gary and Charles don't need this Richard and his black box, which I don't recommend.

I understand the need for the TradeAssistant in the market and the good it can do when you are trapped in the zone between live account and demo so nothing to argue in so many post with Zoethecus.

Overall I think ViperTradingSystems.com is a must but expensive and we got it all free here guys.

Still join their live room free for at least two weeks and learn from them. Thanks Charles

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  #139 (permalink)
Capitol City,NC
 
 
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I've noticed in the chat room that Gary and Charles are starting to show their live trades, and surprisingly enough they are profitable. But neither of them seem follow the viper rules. If Gary sees the DX go up or down quickly, he takes a 6E/6B trade in the opposite direction, with no regard to the viper line, swings, pivots or support/resistance lines. Charles gets into the trades late and gets out early. But from what they show, both of them are profitable. When Charles marks up the days chart, he shows the ideal entry and exit, unfortunately his live trades are much less profitable. I wonder why Gary says that Charles taught him everything he knows because Gary's live trades are much better than Charles'.

A couple more Charles comments...why does he have to talk over Gary? Why does he scream so much? He loves to hear his own voice I suppose. Charles is so condescending too, yelling out, "this is a no brainer, everyone should be in this trade." But it's after the move has happened and he probably missed it too. He also explained why he's always late to the chat room, it's because he doesn't like to trade from 9:30 to 9:45.

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  #140 (permalink)
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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not bad you can use my Kstochcolor to pain the background I suggest use 10,34 setting to start.

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  #141 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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How do you know they are showing live trades? Do they post their DOM?


rubberduck View Post
I've noticed in the chat room that Gary and Charles are starting to show their live trades, and surprisingly enough they are profitable. But neither of them seem follow the viper rules. If Gary sees the DX go up or down quickly, he takes a 6E/6B trade in the opposite direction, with no regard to the viper line, swings, pivots or support/resistance lines. Charles gets into the trades late and gets out early. But from what they show, both of them are profitable. When Charles marks up the days chart, he shows the ideal entry and exit, unfortunately his live trades are much less profitable. I wonder why Gary says that Charles taught him everything he knows because Gary's live trades are much better than Charles'.

A couple more Charles comments...why does he have to talk over Gary? Why does he scream so much? He loves to hear his own voice I suppose. Charles is so condescending too, yelling out, "this is a no brainer, everyone should be in this trade." But it's after the move has happened and he probably missed it too. He also explained why he's always late to the chat room, it's because he doesn't like to trade from 9:30 to 9:45.


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  #142 (permalink)
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Gary shows his chart trader with his live account number in the account box while he's in the trade.

Charles shows his chart after the trade with the text and markers visible with his live account in chart trader.

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  #143 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Anyone trading NT should know that you do not have to show a DOM in order to see a live trade. If you are using Chart Trader you can also see a live trade.

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  #144 (permalink)
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rubberduck View Post
Gary shows his chart trader with his live account number in the account box while he's in the trade.

Charles shows his chart after the trade with the text and markers visible with his live account in chart trader.

How many contracts do they trade? Let me guess: ONE.

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  #145 (permalink)
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Let me remind everyone that you can create a new account group in NinjaTrader and give it any naming convention you want, ie to simulate a naming convention of a real Mirus/Zen, IB etc account, yet it still be sim.

Not at all saying that is what is happening here, I have no clue, have never used these people or been in the room. But I just wanted to make sure you guys knew it is technically possible to do this.

Mike

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  #146 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Let me remind everyone that you can create a new account group in NinjaTrader and give it any naming convention you want, ie to simulate a naming convention of a real Mirus/Zen, IB etc account, yet it still be sim.

Not at all saying that is what is happening here, I have no clue, have never used these people or been in the room. But I just wanted to make sure you guys knew it is technically possible to do this.

Mike

Given the horrendous feedback on the marketing tactics of Viper principals by members at the mypivotsdotcom site, I say Charles and Gary are odds-on-favorites to do exactly what Mike pointed out.

I think that, but am not sure, a sim account defaults the chart trade box to dark grey for all naming conventions.

These guys are not trustworthy--they seek your money.

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  #147 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Hello Zoethecus;

I have read all your posts on this subject, and it is obvious that you have a personal vendetta with these people. I have also read the posts on mypivotsdotcom, where I beleive you also star. There are hundreds of companies that are doing the exact same, of which I can name many. It is a free economy, supply and demand, and as long as you have this you have companies offering their services and knowhow and you have people who are prepared to pay for this service.
You have not shown anywhere, that their system is not feasibly tradeable - and here I am not refering to the Autotrader, but the pure Viper System of trading. There are hundreds of people offering Autotrading but that is a totaly different story.
If you yourself are so proficient a trader, I would like to see a months trading journal of your live account to see just how successful you are at trading, and not just blasting others on a personal basis. I would also like you to dismask yourself and instead of hiding behind a psuedo name of Zoethecus, write you full name and address, so that we know who you are. I for instance write here under my full name, not behind any curtain.
Let me make it clear, that I do not know these people, but have enough experience of 40 years in the business, to see when someone attacks others on a non professional basis.
Mikes board is a fantastic achievement for the interaction of ideas, and the flow of information, but I do beleive that you have strayed from this objective.
Please see this as a contructive piece of advice and not a personal attack on yourself.

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  #148 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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perryg View Post
Hello Zoethecus;

I have read all your posts on this subject, and it is obvious that you have a personal vendetta with these people. I have also read the posts on mypivotsdotcom, where I believe you also star. There are hundreds of companies that are doing the exact same, of which I can name many. It is a free economy, supply and demand, and as long as you have this you have companies offering their services and knowhow and you have people who are prepared to pay for this service.
You have not shown anywhere, that their system is not feasibly tradeable - and here I am not referring to the Autotrader, but the pure Viper System of trading. There are hundreds of people offering Autotrading but that is a totaly different story.
If you yourself are so proficient a trader, I would like to see a months trading journal of your live account to see just how successful you are at trading, and not just blasting others on a personal basis. I would also like you to dismask yourself and instead of hiding behind a psuedo name of Zoethecus, write you full name and address, so that we know who you are. I for instance write here under my full name, not behind any curtain.
Let me make it clear, that I do not know these people, but have enough experience of 40 years in the business, to see when someone attacks others on a non professional basis.
Mikes board is a fantastic achievement for the interaction of ideas, and the flow of information, but I do beleive that you have strayed from this objective.
Please see this as a contructive piece of advice and not a personal attack on yourself.

You are entitled to your opinion. And if you want to enrich the Viper owners be my guest. We'll be waiting here to learn about your success or lack thereof.

It is not up to me to prove their indicators are tradeable--that is their burden or anyone else who wants to defend them and can prove their claims. Nothing I say about these people is personal, it is all business and borne out by others who were paying members. In addition, I'm not selling anything and, therefore, have no need to disclose my trading records. Your logic is cockeyed. This is about Viper, not me.

And by the way, there is no "pure Viper system of trading." Viper is a hodgepodge of non-proprietary indicators that are no different than most others that give lagging information for DISCRETIONARY trading. All one has to do is spend 15 minutes in the Viper room to see that.

P.S. Just because there are hundreds of companies who sell pie-in-the-sky dreams to aspiring traders doesn't make it right.

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  #149 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Zoethecus View Post
You are entitled to your opinion. And if you want to enrich the Viper owners be my guest. We'll be waiting here to learn about your success or lack thereof.

It is not up to me to prove their indicators are tradeable--that is their burden or anyone else who wants to defend them and can prove their claims. Nothing I say about these people is personal, it is all business and borne out by others who were paying members. In addition, I'm not selling anything and, therefore, have no need to disclose my trading records. Your logic is cockeyed. This is about Viper, not me.

And by the way, there is no "pure Viper system of trading." Viper is a hodgepodge of non-proprietary indicators that are no different than most others that give lagging information for DISCRETIONARY trading. All one has to do is spend 15 minutes in the Viper room to see that.

P.S. Just because there are hundreds of companies who sell pie-in-the-sky dreams to aspiring traders doesn't make it right.

All traders use some sort of a system. They can be be made up from different types of indicators (all are a hodgepodge of indicators). On this forum you have many many different systems being offered. You have to explain HOW to use the system with your specific indicators. Even after explaining some traders can work with it and some cannot - thats the name of game, if you have ever traded before. Not all systems work for everybody.
My contention, is that you are vemnonous on a personal level and not on a professional level. Any decent professional would tell you why some system will not work, and explain his reasoning. You just discredit people on a personal level without any backup.

Use you efforts and energy to be constructive and not destructive. I would love to see your system of trading, as I am open to learning from all. Maybe you have something that none of us traders have - why not share it with us !!!!

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  #150 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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perryg, good luck with your Viper trading.

If you have success with it, please return here and post your results--you'll probably be the first one--and Charles and Gary will be very pleased.

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  #151 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 40 since Mar 2010
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ronan2505 my TsSuperTrend setup is default .
I only changed downtrend and uptrend plot settings to "line solid 3px.

I am sorry for the delay but I am on vacation in a Punta Cana resort for 2 weeks
and I will only trade the opening bell Wednesday and Thursday so I did not get the internet in my room before today.

good trading!

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  #152 (permalink)
Capitol City,NC
 
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2010
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Here is a screenshot of Gary in a live trade. As Big Mike said, it's impossible to tell if it's his real account. He is obviously ignoring the viper rules since two bars closed above the viper line.

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  #153 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
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sorry rubberduck but you got it wrong.

their rules are:

1. wait to see viper change color to green
2. wait to see the up arrow
3. wait for the trend to turn green
4. wait for a pullback
5. confirm the trade up and enter long

your snapshot show price action in the "no man's land" area and is just a retrace testing the previous swing.
The retrace passed the swing and is probing deep in the zone but still have resistance to break in this choppy zone.
Those two bars up are a quick scalp for some buyers and pressure for limit sellers.

and for a real account or not....it doesn't matter since the system works like a charm.


Just take what you need from any vendor to make you a better trader and leave.

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  #154 (permalink)
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
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Anyone still trading this hodgepodge of junk? They now have new products, AutoElite, Breakout and a few others.

It seems to me they keep changing products to stay ahead of their losing prior products.

How many new strategies have they come out within the past 6 months? That should tell us something.

When you have a good thing going you do not change it or fool with it. They obviously never got a good thing going.

Jack

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  #155 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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jgreene View Post
Anyone still trading this hodgepodge of junk? They now have new products, AutoElite, Breakout and a few others.

It seems to me they keep changing products to stay ahead of their losing prior products.

How many new strategies have they come out within the past 6 months? That should tell us something.

When you have a good thing going you do not change it or fool with it. They obviously never got a good thing going.

Jack

perryg was one of their stout defenders, but we haven't heard from him.

They excel in marketing Rube Goldberg trading methods that never work. With all the information available on the Internet to anyone who isn't too lazy to search, it's a wonder that anyone gives these people money.

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  #156 (permalink)
Rechovot
 
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Zoethecus View Post
perryg was one of their stout defenders, but we haven't heard from him.

.

Zoethecus,


You have nothing to hear from me regarding this issue, and I am sorry to see that you once again DISTORT the facts, as you have done so much in the past. I do not support or defend one or the other, but you constantly attack people on a personal basis, and not on a professional basis regarding their methods. I still regard personal attacks on people distructive. If you can point out professionaly WHY their trading method are wrong please do so, if not better keep your thoughts to yourself, and do not distort my previous posts to you in any other way other than what I had written to you pointing out your obessions and destructive methods of communication.

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  #157 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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perryg View Post
Zoethecus,


You have nothing to hear from me regarding this issue, and I am sorry to see that you once again DISTORT the facts, as you have done so much in the past. I do not support or defend one or the other, but you constantly attack people on a personal basis, and not on a professional basis regarding their methods. I still regard personal attacks on people distructive. If you can point out professionaly WHY their trading method are wrong please do so, if not better keep your thoughts to yourself, and do not distort my previous posts to you in any other way other than what I had written to you pointing out your obessions and destructive methods of communication.

Now if you consider it "personal" that I bring it to the attention of the community these methods don't work (and there are many others who have paid and agree with me), then I think you might have your own agenda in defending Viper. But you never published you results using it, so I'll go out on a limb and say they didn't work for you either.

So, at the risk of being redundant, let's settle this once and for all: the methods are "wrong" (to quote your word) because they DON'T WORK, meaning they won't make a profit. I don't know how to make that any more "professional" to appease you. It is what it is.

Today's Viper systems, both discretionary and automated, will be abandoned by the company in a few months (like ALL of the others they've sold) and new ones will be peddled with new names. And those won't work either. That's their modus operandi.

Period. End of discussion.

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  #158 (permalink)
Washington DC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Zoethecus View Post
Now if you consider it "personal" that I bring it to the attention of the community these methods don't work (and there are many others who have paid and agree with me), then I think you might have your own agenda in defending Viper. But you never published you results using it, so I'll go out on a limb and say they didn't work for you either.

So, at the risk of being redundant, let's settle this once and for all: the methods are "wrong" (to quote your word) because they DON'T WORK, meaning they won't make a profit. I don't know how to make that any more "professional" to appease you. It is what it is.

Today's Viper systems, both discretionary and automated, will be abandoned by the company in a few months (like ALL of the others they've sold) and new ones will be peddled with new names. And those won't work either. That's their modus operandi.

Period. End of discussion.

I am afraid at this point, I have to totally agree. The biggest joke of all was them saying they'd grandfather in the original clients, when the new price came, but then they abandoned everything, to switch to the new stuff. So the original users are grandfathered into nothing.

Frankly I wouldn't pay a dime for anything Rick has had his hand in.

Pete

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United States of America
 
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Peter2150 View Post
I am afraid at this point, I have to totally agree. The biggest joke of all was them saying they'd grandfather in the original clients, when the new price came, but then they abandoned everything, to switch to the new stuff. So the original users are grandfathered into nothing.

Frankly I wouldn't pay a dime for anything Rick has had his hand in.

Pete

Peter, I took you off ignore.

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  #160 (permalink)
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
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They are now boasting new products such as authtraderelite and another less expensive autotrader.
They state over night trading is generating large wins to the tune of $1,000 +.
Anyone still a member and getting these results?

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  #161 (permalink)
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Based on experience, back several months ago when a member, they state way too many things, namely how they are killing it. The only things that get killed are your trading account, and then your bank account for paying them.

Have them provide you a trading account statement showing these large wins they claim. You will either be ignored or banned.


jgreene View Post
They are now boasting new products such as authtraderelite and another less expensive autotrader.
They state over night trading is generating large wins to the tune of $1,000 +.
Anyone still a member and getting these results?


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  #162 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009


jgreene View Post
They are now boasting new products such as authtraderelite and another less expensive autotrader.
They state over night trading is generating large wins to the tune of $1,000 +.
Anyone still a member and getting these results?

These guys have no shame when it comes to taking OPM for worthless products.

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  #163 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 40 since Mar 2010
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I did try their new breakout robot but could not trust it at first so I unsubscribed quickly

because 1: you need to learn WHEN to turn it on and When to turn it off.
I did not know then 'the WHEN' so the breakout robot was showing -1000usd very quickly and was often taking 3 losing trades before catching a good one and that scared me more.

There was no way I could trust myself to properly turn the robot on or off.

because 2: ADXVMA gives a better and quicker signal.
The right chart shows where the robot took a long trade at 11:34 based on a trend background change.
The left chart shows a much quicker entry based on ADXVMA background change at 11:33.




on the second chart we can see what entries scared me ' 3 losing in a row = choppy turn it off zone'
because I did not know how to use the robot does not mean it's not working.


It is questionable to see a good system like the viper3 'which I use' being replaced by new systems.
Viper trading switched to this new breakout system in response to demand of tighter stop loss by using a system on a 2 to 4 range bars instead of an 8 range.





I've been following those guys long enough and watched and attended many of their Webinars to know that helping traders to become profitable is their main goal.

So far this is the trading room I have learned the most from and recommend to every one to watch their recorded Webinars first and decide if they want to join.
Viper Trading Systems

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  #164 (permalink)
Sydney / Australia
 
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I honestly think their indicators are CHEAP. From the pictures above, it looks like the sharky ADX line in combination with the Supertrend indicator. Ive gone to a lot of their webinars and everything that is taught is in the past tense.

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  #165 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
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PiCoTrader View Post
I did try their new breakout robot but could not trust it at first so I unsubscribed quickly

because 1: you need to learn WHEN to turn it on and When to turn it off.
I did not know then 'the WHEN' so the breakout robot was showing -1000usd very quickly and was often taking 3 losing trades before catching a good one and that scared me more.

There was no way I could trust myself to properly turn the robot on or off.

because 2: ADXVMA gives a better and quicker signal.
The right chart shows where the robot took a long trade at 11:34 based on a trend background change.
The left chart shows a much quicker entry based on ADXVMA background change at 11:33.

Attachment 16524


on the second chart we can see what entries scared me ' 3 losing in a row = choppy turn it off zone'
because I did not know how to use the robot does not mean it's not working.


It is questionable to see a good system like the viper3 'which I use' being replaced by new systems.
Viper trading switched to this new breakout system in response to demand of tighter stop loss by using a system on a 2 to 4 range bars instead of an 8 range.

Attachment 16527



I've been following those guys long enough and watched and attended many of their Webinars to know that helping traders to become profitable is their main goal.

So far this is the trading room I have learned the most from and recommend to every one to watch their recorded Webinars first and decide if they want to join.
Viper Trading Systems

Their chart looks like it's using:

TCTrendingTSF (Time Series Forecast) for the color-changing average price line
TSSuperTrend for the "breakout"
I can't tell what's coloring the bars.

We've got all we need right here at BigMikes.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #166 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
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sorry but your comments are irrelevant guys.
Stay focused on the subject, Not the charts or indicators. Those are not the subject here.
The breakout robot entering late compared to our free ADXVMA is.

Those charts are to compare how far the robot took a trade based on background charge' Blue chart'. Compare it with ADXVMA background color change 'black chart' and see how far the robot took the trade.

I'm using _Lin_Reg_Color_Paint_V01 to mimic Viper and TSSupertrend on the blue chart.
But its irrelevant.

when using a strategy,Ninja puts a dotted line after closing the trade.
You need a second chart 'my black one' or a dome to see the trade going and to move stop and targets. You don't have any control of the trade on the same chart robot strategy is running' for those who don't know'.

So the robot was set on the blue chart while I was watching and trading it on the black chart using chart Trader.

This was my first time subscribing to a strategy '399usd' and I did not like it but someone on futures.io (formerly BMT) had to do it to find out about the Breakout autotrader.

As a trader, I was very concerned to see the robot enter so late. ADXVMA was already telling me that the automatic trade would likely fail.

Seeing 3 losing trades in a row on the second chart has nothing to give me confidence either.

There is nothing better as yourself to trade but I had to find out.
Personally the chat room is all I want and with clear trade calls, from Viper System, this would be a much better trading room than selling a breakout strategy or explaining entry/exits on a end of day 'EOD' chart.

Final note ...don't pay attention to the ClosedPnL the robot is showing.

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  #167 (permalink)
Sydney / Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: AMP
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 118 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 128 given, 105 received


PiCoTrader View Post
hi jthom and Thewizard, sorry but your comments are irrelevant.
Stay focused on the subject, Not the charts or indicators. Those are not the subject here.
The breakout robot entering late compared to our free ADXVMA is.

Those charts are to compare how far the robot took a trade based on background charge' Blue chart'. Compare it with ADXVMA background color change 'black chart' and see how far the robot took the trade.

I'm using _Lin_Reg_Color_Paint_V01 to mimic Viper and TSSupertrend on the blue chart.
But its irrelevant.

when using a strategy,Ninja puts a dotted line after closing the trade.
You need a second chart 'my black one' or a dome to see the trade going and to move stop and targets. You don't have any control of the trade on the same chart robot strategy is running' for those who don't know'.

So the robot was set on the blue chart while I was watching and trading it on the black chart using chart Trader.

This was my first time subscribing to a strategy '399usd' and I did not like it but someone on futures.io (formerly BMT) had to do it to find out about the Breakout autotrader.

As a trader, I was very concerned to see the robot enter so late. ADXVMA was already telling me that the automatic trade would likely fail.

Seeing 3 losing trades in a row on the second chart has nothing to give me confidence either.

There is nothing better as yourself to trade but I had to find out.
Personally the chat room is all I want and with clear trade calls, from Viper System, this would be a much better trading room than selling a breakout strategy or explaining entry/exits on a end of day 'EOD' chart.

Final note ...don't pay attention to the ClosedPnL the robot is showing.

Sorry, who are you to judge if our comments are irrelevant?
I was simply stating what the indicators look like. No need to flame please, since we didnt relate to your 'comment!'

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  #168 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Optimus Futures, AMP, CQG
Trading: 6E
 
TheWizard's Avatar
 
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PiCoTrader View Post
hi jthom and Thewizard, sorry but your comments are irrelevant.
Stay focused on the subject, Not the charts or indicators. Those are not the subject here.
The breakout robot entering late compared to our free ADXVMA is.

Those charts are to compare how far the robot took a trade based on background charge' Blue chart'. Compare it with ADXVMA background color change 'black chart' and see how far the robot took the trade.

I'm using _Lin_Reg_Color_Paint_V01 to mimic Viper and TSSupertrend on the blue chart.
But its irrelevant.

when using a strategy,Ninja puts a dotted line after closing the trade.
You need a second chart 'my black one' or a dome to see the trade going and to move stop and targets. You don't have any control of the trade on the same chart robot strategy is running' for those who don't know'.

So the robot was set on the blue chart while I was watching and trading it on the black chart using chart Trader.

This was my first time subscribing to a strategy '399usd' and I did not like it but someone on futures.io (formerly BMT) had to do it to find out about the Breakout autotrader.

As a trader, I was very concerned to see the robot enter so late. ADXVMA was already telling me that the automatic trade would likely fail.

Seeing 3 losing trades in a row on the second chart has nothing to give me confidence either.

There is nothing better as yourself to trade but I had to find out.
Personally the chat room is all I want and with clear trade calls, from Viper System, this would be a much better trading room than selling a breakout strategy or explaining entry/exits on a end of day 'EOD' chart.

Final note ...don't pay attention to the ClosedPnL the robot is showing.

Pico,
Sorry for the mis-directed "help". I guess I didn't understand the point you were trying to make in the beginning.

Best wishes.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #169 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 40 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 149 given, 48 received

hey guys so we all agree the charts are mine with our indicators and not viper's and that my post is about the robot and helping others.

You scared me!
I used to be a teacher for many years and I thought my English was getting bad so I could not express my ideas clearly enough...I'm french.

I want vipers new customers to know from an outside trader what's good and 'less good' with the Breakout AutoTrader....Don't look at the Robot daily profits if you want to subscribe. Take the trial.

After watching viper system for a long time I've decided to get ride of the _Lin_Reg_Color used as the Viper and replaced it with ADXVMA, which is a very good place to buy when price comes back to touch it.

So now I'm just using TSSuperTrend Break and retracement touch and ADXVMA at retracement touch.

Both together with viper's teaching can give very good results.
Viper made me see my charts on a different way. Thanks Charles

Here is my Crude set up...I have the same for Gold, Euro and EMD on 3 screens.




anyone else tried the robot ?
anyone else got success with Viper ?

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  #170 (permalink)
Fort Collins, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Zaner Zen-Fire
Trading: GC Comex Gold
 
whoisthere48's Avatar
 
Posts: 32 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 185 given, 29 received

I tried the viper off and on. The guys that run it seem well intentioned. However I wanted a simple straightforward robotic trading system that I could count on to make more money over the course of a week than it loses. I never found that there and I have been using their autotraders ever since the Mamba and Diamondback days. I quit them about a month ago after unsuccessfully trying out their newest robot, the Elite Breakout. When I lost money with it, then the obvious reason was "user error". Either I chose the wrong settings (of which there are dozens) or I chose the wrong start or stop times. With the limitations that NT 6.5 has on memory, I could not run more than 4 or 5 of the robots without NT crashing so I could not run enough simulations to get a good idea of what works and doesn't work. So I had to wing it. The "suggested settings" were somewhat vague at first. Maybe they are more firm now. I don't know.

What annoyed me the most was that at every webinar Rich would bring up screen shots of a few selected instruments to show how much they made the day before. But when I asked about an instrument I lost on the day before, if I got an answer it was something like "gee, we don't know because we did not trade that one last night" or "our trades made money - see the chart". It seemed I always ran the robots on the wrong ones or started it at the wrong time.

If they would put out a simple automated robot that makes (even a little bit) more than it loses in a week consistently I would pay for it. So if you guys at Viper (Charles, Gary or Rich) are reading this, please cut the complexity and make something simple that makes money. THAT'S what people want and will pay for.

And if you can't do that, at least buy enough PC's and run the robots every day on all 15 or 20 or so instruments you discuss and give a daily running tally of how each one did with ONLY the default settings and default trading times every day so everyone in the webinar can see which instruments the robots work on and which ones they don't work on. Full disclosure is the honest way to present what you have to offer. Anything less does not - to say the least - give me the confidence to subscribe again.

Had to get that off my chest.

Richard

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  #171 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 40 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 149 given, 48 received

Thanks Richard for your post.

I completely agree with you that it's hard to know when to turn the Robot off since it's going to take some losing trades in a developing chop zone ' no more HH, HL or LL,LH' before you know you are now in a choppy indecisive zone.

I noticed that 1: ADXVMA was faster to give a good signal.
2: The time zone look back in the settings is misleading.

Meaning, if not set to look forward when you turn it on, will look back at every trades the Robot would have taken during the night or any period you might choose.

It is easy then to find a winning period that will show a good ClosedPnL on top of the chart. Not meaning they intentionally do this.


Still, there seams to be many people doing constantly well every day but that's not you and me.

I personally don't like all the attention given to the autotrader in the emails and during the trading room.



So far, have you learned and become a better trader with Viper System ' Charles teaching'?


I did but I still struggle hard with a slow market and stalling price.
It's like my mind turns into Jello and I just can't put my orders in with the slow motion.
I don't have any problem running the same market on replay at 3 to 20 times faster at night and trust my rules.
That's a phase I have to go through.

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  #172 (permalink)
Nashville TN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: SierraChart
Broker: Sierra Futures/SC Denali
Trading: NQ ES YM
 
Posts: 410 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 166 given, 505 received

The Viper folks haven't changed their modus operandi. They were running the same game last year when I tried them.

Richard and Pico, you are saying the same things about them that I did back then.

The detractors make excellent reasoned arguments for their case, and the proponents just get defensive and claim unverified huge winnings. I don't know of any other trading vendor that generates this much froth. It's as if it's by design.

This thread, and the one at mypivots.com, has been beating this dead horse for a long time. Maybe we should all get a clue...

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  #173 (permalink)
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 5 received

I was with Viper when they had the manual system and then the original autotraders. I made a few bucks with diamondback, mamba, trend indictor, russellviper, etc. Then one morning I woke to a complete change of stratagies, with no support for the previous systems, and became a little suspicious. Sure enough, a new system poped up every 30 days or sooner.
I have found some success using the original manual charts with a 6 range chart on top and 9 range on the bottom. I use _Lin_Reg_Color_Paint_v1(close,10,30,21,) on the top and bottom charts with the ranges mentioned above. Included on the top chart are SessionPivots_V2(Daily,DailyBars,True,30), DonchianChannel(5), PPO(Close,8,12,8) and RSqueeze(BBSqueeze).The indicators are available here or on the Mypivots.com site. My entry points are usually when all indicators line up and following the trend. My exits are dictated by my ATM strategy.

What I am looking for is tweaking these for better entry signals or adding another for better entry signals.

Anyone still using these indicators? Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jack

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  #174 (permalink)
essex, nj
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

Not SPAM, just an affirmation the bigger picture. I tried them for a month last summer and even tried the new ATBreakout thingee (something about the technical term "Robo-Friendee" just bothers me. I don't know why. It just does...gets under my skin every time Charles says it), but it just wasn't for me. To much heat at times, and in the final analysis, I enjoy the act of trading. Though I do agree that you should babysit the system, it doesn't surprise me in the least that the price is suddenly going up.

And the "High Energy Times" does seem like so much smoke. Let's just add some astrology from Larry Pesavento while we're at it (with apologies to anyone that uses astrology in their trading).

peace.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

******Important - Rate Increase After Tuesday, July 20th - Please Read******


**************If you are an existing subscriber - your rates will not change as long as you remain an active subscriber************


After Tuesday, July 20th, the following changes will occur to the Viper subscription rates:

- The Free Trial will now cost a nominal $99 for 15 days and this amount will be credited to toward the first month's subscription

- If you are an existing subscriber, or a new subscriber, to the Indicators and Live Chat at the $199/mo rate; you will have the opportunity to add the High Energy Times and High Probability Trades for $99/mo.

- The Full Autotrader subscription will increase by $100 per month: The first month will now be $399 and the monthly rate thereafter will be $499/mo. This will include all of the features currently listed on the pricing page, PLUS the new Probinator Autotrader as well as the High Energy Times and High Probability Trades.

If you are thinking of subscribing, or an upgrade to your existing subscription, please consider doing so before the close of business on Tuesday, July 20th, 2010; or you will come in at the higher rates.

We are excited at the results of the Breakout Trading system now logging over 1,000 trades since it's launch in early May. If you have any questions about the rate increase, or the products and services of the various subscription levels, please be certain to visit either or both of the next two Webinars:

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  #175 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009

This reeks of desperation. A free trial that isn't free if you don't subscribe. (Since when is $99 for 15 days "nominal?").

The reason behind raising prices when membership is dropping (A) make up for lost revenue; and (B) to give the outside world the impression that demand for this dreck is rising when indeed it is falling.

STAY AWAY FROM THIS HUCKSTERISM.

YOU CAN DO BETTER SPENDING FREE TIME ON futures.io (formerly BMT) AND KEEPING YOUR MONEY IN YOUR POCKET INSTEAD OF HANDING IT OVER TO THESE GANGSTERS.

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  #176 (permalink)
essex, nj
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

Agreed Zoe. Desperation was the first thing that came to mind. They are pushing a bucket of steam and an air sandwich and now want to raise the price again?!? This is the second price increase in their first year of operation.

Grail or Fail?

Somehow I imagine a "Special extended limited time offer" dropping as soon as this "enhanced" pricing starts to leave a stink in their A/R G/L acct.

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  #177 (permalink)
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009

bandler6, this is their third price increase in a year.

Their strategy is to raise prices after they get ruffed up in the trading forums and online media from customers who exposed them as worthless snake oil hustlers, as if it is a show of strentgh on their part. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth.

Now I understand why Charles got the boot from the software company he worked for--which was unrelated to day trading--before he spawned this Viper venture.

Wasn't L. Ron Hubbard a starving, down on his luck, science fiction writer before creating the religious cult known as Scientology to support himself?

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  #178 (permalink)
Sydney / Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: AMP
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 118 since Jun 2009
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Zoethecus View Post
This reeks of desperation. A free trial that isn't free if you don't subscribe. (Since when is $99 for 15 days "nominal?").

The reason behind raising prices when membership is dropping (A) make up for lost revenue; and (B) to give the outside world the impression that demand for this dreck is rising when indeed it is falling.

STAY AWAY FROM THIS HUCKSTERISM.

YOU CAN DO BETTER SPENDING FREE TIME ON futures.io (formerly BMT) AND KEEPING YOUR MONEY IN YOUR POCKET INSTEAD OF HANDING IT OVER TO THESE GANGSTERS.


Haha. Very true!

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  #179 (permalink)
essex, nj
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

3x?!? Sh*t.

In the end, the only success in this game, is the one you make for yourself.

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  #180 (permalink)
Washington DC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 214 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 110 given, 117 received

Geesh, yet another price increase. No pretense of grandslathering there current subscribers this time. Hey, there secret is come up with something new, wait until people figure out what it is, which isn't that hard, and the change it and increase the price.

Then it's automated into something unprofitable. When they started they almost were okay, but then Rich and Charles got really greedy. Viper is such an appropriate name.

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  #181 (permalink)
essex, nj
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
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Nevermind that they use the actual Dodge Viper logo, goes to show how shameless they really are.

The only pearl of wisdom I got from them, was the use of Range bars. I simply wasn't familiar with them. I really like how they function and the story they tell, along with using a "trend" chart 1.5x the time period for some guidance. Other than that, I am am glad I never paid for more than one month (Oct-09). And I am even happier that I found futures.io (formerly BMT)

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  #182 (permalink)
essex, nj
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

I would add though, the one thing I thought was kind of neat on their AT window, was the PnL Plot on panel 2. It's a nice visual to see where you stand at any point in your trade/session as a graph, rather than step away to the Control Panel or the DOM.

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  #183 (permalink)
Palm City, Fl
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 5 received

I am, for reason unknown, still on their distribution list. Their most recent email announced another $3,000 + day trading several markets and over $45,000 profit for the month. One would think with returns that large someone in the media would pick this up or users of their auto systems would be boasting all over the net!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a peep!!

Jack

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  #184 (permalink)
Zurich
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
 
Posts: 9 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

Hello

I am a subscriber for 3 weeks now. I have learned a lot of these guys. I now see the charts in a different way. I like attending their daily live trade webinar. It's very interesting and you get real time information about entering a trade or not. So far, I am quite happy with the offer.

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  #185 (permalink)
Washington, DC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Broker: Ninja
Trading: CL, ES
 
Posts: 94 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 111 given, 58 received

Trying to duplicate the Viper trailing stop - I used something similar before but can't find it. Anyone duplicate this?

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  #186 (permalink)
Washington, DC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Broker: Ninja
Trading: CL, ES
 
Posts: 94 since Dec 2009
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SawDr View Post
Trying to duplicate the Viper trailing stop - I used something similar before but can't find it. Anyone duplicate this?

Just found it = use Ninja's ATRTrailing stop with "Multi" set to 4.2 and "Period" set to 4. This matches exactly.

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  #187 (permalink)
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Optimus Futures, AMP, CQG
Trading: 6E
 
TheWizard's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,736 since Jun 2009
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SawDr View Post
Just found it = use Ninja's ATRTrailing stop with "Multi" set to 4.2 and "Period" set to 4. This matches exactly.

SawDR,

TSSuperTrend also works rather well. Change default settings as follows:

SuperTrend Mode = "Adaptive" (default is ATR)
Multiplier = 4 (default is 2.618)
Moving Average Type = HMA (default)
Smoothing = 14 (default)


Actually, comparing the 2 on the same screen, the TSSuperTrend is a bit earlier in its recognition of the change in trend direction. Try 'em both out & compare. The thing I like about TSSuperTrend is, you can color the Up / Down stop dots, whereas in the ATRTrailingStop, they are always the same color. Just a minor difference, but one that may appeal to you.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #188 (permalink)
Unites States
 
 
Posts: 35 since Sep 2010
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tomgilb View Post
JJ,

Try this for NinjaTrader:

-Import the attached NinjaScript zip files using File, Utilities, Import NinjaScript... (do not unzip)
-Put the two .xml template files in your \NinjaTrader 6.5\templates\Chart folder
-Click on File, New, Chart... , select your instrument, days back, and preferred range bar size for the Trade chart, and choose the UnViper Trade template.
Repeat for the Trend chart, choosing the UnViper Trend template.

The default Trade chart range bar for ES is 5.
The default Trend chart range bar for ES is 7.
Range bar size will vary for other instruments, but the general rule is the Trend chart uses a range about 1.5 times the Trade chart.

Cautions: Both the Viper and UnViper will repaint the LinReg colors two segments back so it makes reviewing could-have trades inaccurate. And you'll find you need trading skills apart from their indicators (or the attached) to be profitable.

-Tom

Thanks Tom it looks just like it, pretty much the same thing for free
Anyway you can make it compatible with Ninja 7?
Thank You.

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  #189 (permalink)
Nashville TN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: SierraChart
Broker: Sierra Futures/SC Denali
Trading: NQ ES YM
 
Posts: 410 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 166 given, 505 received


eminitrader View Post
Thanks Tom it looks just like it, pretty much the same thing for free
Anyway you can make it compatible with Ninja 7?
Thank You.

Those indicators were written by others, and I'm not a programmer so someone else will have to update them.

I no longer use this system. If you can be consistently profitable with this then maybe you have the trading skills to not need it. Viper/Unviper is not enough by itself. Be careful with it. Trade sim for at least 1 month.

-Tom

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  #190 (permalink)
Unites States
 
 
Posts: 35 since Sep 2010
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tomgilb View Post
Those indicators were written by others, and I'm not a programmer so someone else will have to update them.

I no longer use this system. If you can be consistently profitable with this then maybe you have the trading skills to not need it. Viper/Unviper is not enough by itself. Be careful with it. Trade sim for at least 1 month.

-Tom

Thank you Tom for your reply, and thank you for your compliment. I know I can trade without the system, but I just think it looks pretty cool and I like to dabble with other things just for the heck of it.

Hopefully someone else will update them.

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  #191 (permalink)
New City, NY
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Mirus/Zen Fire
Trading: CL, Currency Futures
 
Posts: 7 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Sunfun, what did you learn from them? The only thing they constantly show is where breakouts happen which are always after the fact which my 10 year old son could do. They have absolutely no filter and encourage taking breakouts of minor swings. Of course some breakouts will be valid ones but most will be false breakouts so you need a way to filter at least some of the bad ones out by using an indicator like tick, market delta, etc.

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  #192 (permalink)
Zurich
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
 
Posts: 9 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

What I learned is the use of Price Action and Swing trading which Gary is explaining very often. The AT's are a joke. When they say they made $ 3000 a day, I would have made - $ 1500....so I never trusted those AT's they offer and never used them live.

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  #193 (permalink)
Orange, CA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2010
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ok i think i understand the high probability trades--after a day of compression, you are more likely to have a breakout the following day, i track the range of 4 instruments and there seems to be some validty to their claim.

however, high energy times, i have not been able to determine if there is any value, there may be and mabe not i have an open mind on this subject. keeping in mind that gann said time is impt than price, hmmm i dont know about that but anyway lets for a minute say its true i have done maybe studies based on time with nothing to show for it, i still track fibo time but it really doesnt work.

so does anyone have any insight to the high energy times, how are they determined and if there is any validty?

thanks

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  #194 (permalink)
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 40 since Mar 2010
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prpockets View Post
ok i think i understand the high probability trades--after a day of compression, you are more likely to have a breakout the following day, i track the range of 4 instruments and there seems to be some validty to their claim.

however, high energy times, i have not been able to determine if there is any value, there may be and mabe not i have an open mind on this subject. keeping in mind that gann said time is impt than price, hmmm i dont know about that but anyway lets for a minute say its true i have done maybe studies based on time with nothing to show for it, i still track fibo time but it really doesnt work.

so does anyone have any insight to the high energy times, how are they determined and if there is any validty?

thanks


I think the high energy time is simply.........Fibonacci Time Extension F10 key default on NinjaTrader.

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  #195 (permalink)
Unites States
 
 
Posts: 35 since Sep 2010
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PiCoTrader View Post
I think the high energy time is simply.........Fibonacci Time Extension F10 key default on NinjaTrader.

How do you use them? Would like to know how they work. Sorry for being off topic, maybe you can pm the info or point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

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  #196 (permalink)
los angeles
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2010
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i put either of these in my chart file (from templates) but when i put them on my chart i don't have any price bars or candles. any suggestions??

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  #197 (permalink)
Orange, CA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2010
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PiCoTrader View Post
I think the high energy time is simply.........Fibonacci Time Extension F10 key default on NinjaTrader.

yes could be fibo or murrey math approach, i am looking at volume and significant swings of previous day. many of their times occur at times using murrey math times ie: 2/8=8:10pacific. of course their high energy times last 40 minutes , should get more exact than 40 minutes, well maybe?

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  #198 (permalink)
Orange, CA
 
 
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eminitrader View Post
How do you use them? Would like to know how they work. Sorry for being off topic, maybe you can pm the info or point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

use them like the F8 fibo retracement, except along the horizantal line, anchor where u want to start ie 6:30 and drag to end time ie 1:00

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  #199 (permalink)
Auckland
 
Experience: Advanced
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Hi All

Has anyone tried The Breakout Stealth Trade Indicators and Trade the High energy time frames

or has anyone been able to workout what is that they use.

thanking you

sharmas

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  #200 (permalink)
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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sharmas View Post
Hi All

Has anyone tried The Breakout Stealth Trade Indicators and Trade the High energy time frames

or has anyone been able to workout what is that they use.

thanking you

sharmas

including a picture is always a good idea.

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