Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,779 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,305 given,
97,565
received
Hi,
You cannot send private messages or post links without having 5 posts in the forum. This is to prevent spam and has nothing to do with being Elite or not. If you are so unhappy here with what I and others have worked so hard to make, feel free to leave!
This really isn't a trading room because the trader, a veteran floor trader, trades all instruments day trading and swing trading. I learned a lot about the way the guys on the floor in Chicago, and New York Merc, look at the market. I paid $250 for a month, cashed in big time shorting the indexes, and wiped out the gains shorting crude.
Hi, regarding jpjtrading, how hard is it to learn from him assuming one is beginning from a blank slate, i.e. 100% noob? Also, it appears he uses IRT/MarketDelta as his platform, so what about the NT users? Are there other members in there who have developed workarounds? Also, you said that to make the best of his method, one would have to trade multiple contracts, so how hard is it for a single-lot trader to stay afloat? And what's the recommended min account size?
JP is good trader but not so hot to teach. I have been in his room and study with JP. Two years ago JP did not have any documentation for his set ups. I do not know what he is offering now. When I study with him I had to document all his set ups as he would show all in the room. His teaching was very desorgnized, so if you are new to trading I do not think you should jump with JP. One other point about JP and I must give him some credit for it. JP is one of the most discipline traders I know. He would not diviate from his set up at all. He does trade from 3-6 lots and would take some out, but at the end would keep a runner for very long time. On the other hand if he is wrong he would let bad trade go and add to bad position. In this case he would call it a "wiggle room". In some cases he would add to bad trade which he would call it McGaver (spelling). I could never get used to such trading.
So since rules are rules you ether trade or not.
Now since my account could not hold such trading I could never truly was able to take full advantage of what JP was doing.
After all said and done I continue to think that JP is very good at what he does when we are talking about trading, but not all good traders are good teachers.
So if you do not have enough account size and you do not know how to manage your money I do not think JP would be good place for you to start.
Just my view on the subject.
TickVix/Gregory
PS if I was still trading ES and was still looking how to trade with Market Profile I would look to see what TraderGirl is going.
The following 2 users say Thank You to tickvix for this post:
Indeed. It make me wonder how guys like these are able to stay in business.
Maybe I should start trading other peoples' money.
That way it might not hurt as much as when losing my own.
Participated in first week of Uncle Mike's trading-room and here is my observation;
VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE!
The man traded over $1,100 for the week with only 3 contracts and used nothing that was esoteric.
Simple indicators, multiple screens, tight Stoploss. Along the way, YES he had a few losers, a percentage number of break-evens, which I believe was a pivotal reason he was able to recover quickly (he excercised GOOD trade management) and some winners that he peeled out of in stages for some nice 1-2 point targets.
He explained his trades nicely and was very open to Questions from his subscribers.
I have to say that last week, you could have thrown a dart blindfolded and had a good week. There were two huge trend days. Peeling off one or two points? There were some 8-10 point moves on the ES. The Euro on Tuesday, looked like the backside of a rainbow into the pot of gold... Nes Pas?
The following user says Thank You to mainstream for this post:
Has anyone heard of or traded with Nadeem M? He has a trading room where he makes live calls on euro, crude oil, and TF. I'm very interested but there is no trial period so looking for reviews before becoming a member.
With all due respect, you lack of experience shows when you assume that anyone can make money just because a market is trending. I have been in the game for 5 yeaRS OTHERS ON THIS SITE FOR A LOT LONGER. Consistantly taking money out of the markets has more to do with your skills as a trader than market bias. Please understand markets rarely go straight up or down, they jerk back and forth within the longer trend. Because of this you have to get the entry, trade management and exit corect or you will not make any money regardless weather the market is trending or consolidating. Hey I've seen traders make money in choopy markets and loose in trending markets. It all about your skill level. And this type of skill taks years to perfect.
@Big Mike Look at all his posts in this forum. Most are of him singing the praises of Nadeem (himself). I see that you've visited his profile before, so I'm sure you have your suspicions too.
So guys, be careful of this Nadeem trading room.
The following 2 users say Thank You to hoeman for this post:
M A Perry is a good guy (Niha from et.com). I used to be in his room back in the day....like 2002/2003 I think. He has a very strict particular price action style he trades so that is what you will learn.....candlesticks based price action patterns.
Thanks for the reply. I learned of Nadeem's room as a result of khan's posts. There is no website, no performance history logged, and of course no trial offered. You pay $500 upfront if you don't want any training or $1500 for training. This does not include the monthly subscription fees. I had my suspicions after taking note of all of the above.
Broker: Advantage, Trading Technologies, OptionsCity, IQ Feed
Trading: CL, NG
Posts: 1,040 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 1,713 given,
3,849
received
Live trading rooms can be beneficial for brand new traders that should be trading SIM. The problem with these rooms in the long run is you risk becoming reliant upon someone else's trade ideas/recommendations.
Trading is a very cognitive profession that involves essentially no communication with anyone really. Unless you trade with a full service broker. Beginner traders should learn about markets, setups, trading plans, etc. that may be offered from these rooms and move on to formulate their own strategy and plan and trade on their own. Take these trade rooms as a brief "seminar", learn and move on. And of course, avoid anything that offers guarantees that they'll make you tons of money. If you absolutely need someone to bounce ideas off of, I would recommend finding a trading partner that has the same (or near) strategy that you have that trades the same market(s).
You'll save yourself a lot of money as well...
Cheers,
PB
The following 5 users say Thank You to Private Banker for this post:
This so very true! Unfortunately, joining these trading rooms is just part of their educational process. Looking back he/she would say, "that trading room was a waste of money." But in reality it was part of their education...costly but nonetheless their education.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
I've subscribed in IOAMT Trading Room. They work with market profile and footprint charts and trade the mini SP in a short timeframe. I'm really happy to have found them. They are serious. Bill Duryea (and his team, Grass Hopper, Alex Benjamin,etc) is a very good trader, and the most important, a very good teacher. He takes his time to explain in detail what he does and why he does it. He covers practical and theoretical aspects of market.
It has been difficult but I think that I’ve finally found what I was searching. I recommend him to anyone who want truly improve.
Trust me, I’m a simple trader and I don’t have any commercial relation with IOAMT. I hope my information can help you.
Hi,
the most important thing, is risk management : size your trade to feel confortable with.
Few trading rooms will tell you that but it's the better advice you can get.
Personnally, i've been in some trading room but consistency and profitability will come from you, day after day...
That's where risk management is capital : you need time to be profitable and if your risk is controled, you have time to become profitable.
Once you are, risk mangement helps you to stay in the game.
I recommend you VanTharp 's book : Supertrader, a must read book.
Cheers,
Mav.
The following user says Thank You to Maverick for this post:
Please see attached - second rollover day.
If any of you is interested and thinking about joining the Cannon trading for trial or more then mention that you are coming from BigMike's trading forum. I cannot post links to their webinars here as I'm not an Elite member...
Thank you.
The following user says Thank You to Al2010 for this post:
I have paid for several trading rooms over the years....
Their most important contribution is costly education; even if it is to make you realize what doesn't work or suite you....
I currently subscribe to Absolute Day Trader.
They call 2 sets ups (ES & TF) each morning usually just before the RTH market opens.
No education just a computer generated system.
I use them on a daily basis as a discipline in the morning to get me started trading for the day.
I do not follow their sets up to the letter but modify per my own judgement and indicators based mainly on what I learnt from Trisha at Easy e Mini - another good trading room.
Anyhow, they can be quite profitable; 4/4 days this week so far...
Another good room with impressive published results is Puretick; Alex trades the YM and gives good education.
rg
Volt, thanks for the mention of Absolute. I am taking a week trial, started friday with one profitable trade. I will visit each am next week and see how it goes. IMO no nonsense, serious trader that seems to be experienced, not a marketing guy!
happy trading!
Just curious bout bill McDowell. Did you actually buy his course or did you just try the room out? I'd like more info if you can please. Been asking around about it. From the videos I've seen the trades are very hyper-active and I don't know if they are really repeatable.
I have been a member of 3 trading rooms and tried several others. All make profit with various methods time-frames etc.
WET had 3 sessions covering Asia, London and US the mentors were all great and profitable with different methods. i had to quit this room because of my lack of discipline, I ended up over trading due to the massive amount of calls and my lack of patience and discipline with regards to targets and discipline. I also had a poor understanding of support and resistance at the time which didn't help. (Would be keen to rejoin this room when I know I won't be tempted to overtrade)
Colin's Trade share plus room has a basic momentum trade looking for 5-10 pip trades based around pivots this system is profitable and easy to learn (my partner likes this, I don't). There are 3 sessions available (only 1 was good for my time frame AEST)
Currently with Triple threat Trading learning Fibonacci and harmonics patterns. This has made me click with regards to patience and discipline. I have no problem using a 50-150pip stop loss. and allowing trades to go to full target.
I believe any trading room can be good but only if you have learnt the self discipline required to trade to your trading rules witch suit your temperament.
I can't justify anything. But I'm currently simming with the 5M and feel comfortable with that timeframe.
It would be nice if I could learn formal rules and have the opportunity to watch someone else's charts
as they take live trades in that same time frame.
Fast moving range bars push my buttons.
I have less time to think and more opportunity to react.
With time bars I feel I have some control as I know when
they will complete. And 5M bars give more opportunity
for more profits from fewer trades. The range bars
make me nervous and and I react impulsively.
Hmmm.. there used to be a trading room from a group over at NationalFutures.com that ran 5 and 15 minute charts on ES, TF, YM and 6E. It was managed for John Person by a guy named Butch Hedding I think, but that was a couple of years ago. I cannot vouch for how good it is but it is at least still in operation and I think they provide a free trial of some sort.
Mind you this is not an endorsement of any kind. I just remembered that they traded with 5 minute charts, as you had mentioned.
Happy Trading,
Randy
The following user says Thank You to randyjb for this post:
Thanks, Randy.
Just looked at the website and it seems they would be upselling proprietary indicators.
And no specific details about the trading room.
But thanks for thinking of me.
Still searching. The one and only MWinfrey at futures.io (formerly BMT) would run a rockin' 5M trading room.
Once upon a time, I was a member of a now defunct trading room whose name will remain anonymous that taught setups on the ES using a 15 and 60 minute chart. The moderator had great success (or so he claimed) because he incorporated tape reading (i.e. discretionary) input into his setups. As a result, his students didn't do anywhere near as well for themselves as he claimed for his account because they only learned the setup rules, not tape reading, which was touchy feely. However, to his credit, he called out trades in realtime, not after the fact. He also claimed to trade 32 ES contracts at a clip. There were times when he doubled and tripled down on a trade. His method was contra-trend.
I will post the setups here as I see them develop if anyone cares. No indicators, nor nothing esoteric. Simply price patterns based on the bars.
The following user says Thank You to Tundi for this post:
It works great on 5 minute charts, in fact I would even say that it would be the only book you need to take money out of the market consistently. 1 book Plethora, that's all you need. Try to go for it.
Yes MetalTrader,
i am working with the book to! I had to read it over and over again and i am still learning!
I can tell you, for me ist is no fun to read it but ist is fun to see how i am improving.
Have fun... too
The following 2 users say Thank You to fossil for this post:
Metal, just saw this post and a very kind futures.io (formerly BMT) soul emailed the book to me last night.
I began to read it and I agree that it may be the last technical trading book I need.
Thanks again to Sleepy and thanks to you for mentioning it.
Hi,
Just to clarify things with Cannon... There is nothing to buy. You pay for being a part of their live webinars-live trading room. They do not sell "education" or magic "methodologies" or magic "indicators". Besides, this is most affordable live tr. room. I think this is the only company that not trying to sell anything to you. You simply sign up, watch and follow (or not). There is a 2 weeks free trial-no obligation. The only thing i ask if you sign up for trial or more please mention that you are coming from BigMikeTrading forum.
Thanks.
MetalTrade, thanks for the book recommendation. One review at Amazon said that the editing is horrible and makes a difficult subject even more so. Curios to know if you found the same. Might there there be another comparable book that you are aware of? Otherwise, very strong reviews. Thanks again.
Yes, it's very hard to read. The 2nd edition is already in publisher's hand, but there is no timetable for when it will come out. So get the 1st ed now if you don't want to wait. Also, there are tons of information on
I am currently a subscriber of two trading rooms and they are both great different styles but both are awesome. One of them is xbot autotraders trading room and I am also starting the broker assist program this week, and the other room is Rob Hoffmans of trade the markets he took over the trading room I believe in January, and I hae been in there since march and it has been great. Both are great Robs is based on all his own strategies and its great. Xbots room is also great and Dpaul the owner and trader develops all the bots as he calls them and they trigger trades and he also has his bot available for ninja trader I have not gotten that yet, but starting with the broker assist, and trading room. I also took the nautilus trading system course which is awesome and I also go into his chatroom, but his is not a signal trading room. He has not charged me to come into the trading webinar at all because I bought his course and strategy. Now I will tell you he is working on a broker assisted program which I hope will be soon, but he also has his software. The amount of info I learned in his course was well worth the money I spent. I know this sounds like a lot but I am believer follow the people that know how to do it and try to do it like them. Thanks, Bob Frank.
The following user says Thank You to pquirst for this post:
Basically, they trade the strategies they teach in their courses, which are very reasonably priced, and compared to many the room is reasonably price.
The pro's to me are:
1) They trade a live account (1 contract) and you know when they are placing trades, and can see them on the charts. They do having losing trades and occasionally losing days. No miracles. Their objectives are reasonable income, not huge profits.
2) No magic indicators. Everything they use are standard indicators. Yeah, the do color the bars, and put a couple of dots on their charts, but they aren't proprietary. They explain what they are and when they are triggered. Can easily be programmed in Ninja.
3. Although based on their courses, they explain what they are doing in the trades, and you can almost learn the system via the room.
4. Their support staff is great, and they are flexible in helping you with their stuff.
I'd recommend taking a look.
Pete
The following user says Thank You to Peter2150 for this post:
Every trading room wants to keep their own secrets, so
most of them will not learn you that much!
Its really hard to follow trading rooms, some are better than others!
I have been in a lot and know directly when its good or not.
I am not a proffesional trader myself and after 2 years of trading
i still am not that good! but I have an automated program now
that makes me good money every month (+- 10k) . that makes it possible
for me to test a lot and follow diffrent trading rooms.
In Holland is a good one for short scalps but it is all in dutch,
and in US is a good one for longer daytrades and swingtrades.
But watch out because there is a lot of scam out there!
I'm still a member (lifetime membership) of a trading group that meets daily (skype) for 2 hours. The moderator calls out the trades and it's very successful..
The problem for me was that I didn't have a large enough account to utilize their strategy.....1-2 ticks a day profit is not feasible for me. For someone with a very large account, that works just fine. That and I didn't feel like I was learning all I needed to learn in order to do the same strategy on my own....so if the moderator went toes up, I'd be dead in the water.
So I unleashed my ego and decided I could do better on my own.......
Hello Dave, and all others who are intrested,
Pls give me a private message, since I dont know if its allowed to put the name of the site/program here
So if anyone intrested you can pvt me or mail me at trancetrader@hotmail.com
the program is making progress we found even better settings and for me for instance it
gave me a profit of over $8000 only last week!
Bucky Lamboo
The following user says Thank You to Lamboo for this post:
No, I am non of them.
I am a user of a an automated program that works really good.
but I am not selling it myself. I bought it myself.
But since I know that some forums might see it as advertising, I did'nt put it out here
but people may contact me in private or mail me about it
IF you are just getting started,or you are looking to learn,,someone has a FREE or almost free TRIAL out there,,, on almost all trading styles,,,and there is so much free stuff here.
Most of the really good ones don't charge that 4000 or 5 grand,,they just try to cover cost..
and if you learn nothing on free trial,they really are just after your money,,,
The good ones are Teachers and not salesmen,,,you can learn tons,, on their site also,and they are almost always teaching in their trading room,,not asking you for money
Moral of story,,,try lots of trials, they are FREE,,and if you just have to give away money,send it to me...JRS
One key issue you mentioned is that you do not yet have a specific methodology for your setups. I suggest you get this part solidified first before you venture into cash.
Start simple. Call setup # 1 Janice, setup #2 Billybob or something descriptive like BASIC TREND TRADE or COUNTER TRADE AT KEY LEVEL #1. Have profit opjectives defined for each setup, as well as capitol preservation minimums for each setup.
Once you go to cash, real loss will set in. REAL HARD CASH LOSSES will most likely build up in the beginning and you will most likely start with a drawdown. So, having some solid descriptive plan that includes your setups and market approach (methodology) is going to be crucial. You are going to have to rely on this plan to get you through. You do not want to be changing things, changing strategies, trade management, etc every few days or every other week.
So, get the plan outline done, include a descriptive outline of money management that goes with your setups, and some defined consistent method of approaching each trade, each trading day, each instrument; just about everything involving the activity of trading.
I would suggest that you have about 90% of all your decisions made before you trade cash. Then just sit and wait for the trade, trade it without any unknown decision making required. When you get a loss, take a deep breath and think about what you were thinking about, write it down, and trade again.
Define the reasons for the losses honestly. Pinpointing the reason for losses is crucial. This will help you discover just how good your "methodology" is and what needs to be fixed...if anything. Losses are part of the game, so expect them and know just how many constitutes par for your methods.
I located an interesting trade room that trades the euro 6e and emini es. I think I found the website somewhere on this forum. I did not save the web site and am not able to locate it anymore. They had a 14-day free trial and then charge $95 per month. They show each days results on the performance link. The guy who runs the live trading room prefers the euro over the ES. If anyone knows the link to the web site please let me know.
The key to it being profitable for you is you. Does not matter what the moderator makes, or calls. What matters is how you handle your trading. If you can completely trust that moderator trader, then I suggest you approach him/her and have them trade your account for you, or ask if they have a automated system you can just run.
Otherwise the legitimate live trading room that will be the most consistently profitable for you is the one you run yourself.
I have an essay on this forum somewhere about trading rooms and how to make them profitable for you. It might help you discover that it is what you do in the room, not the room itself that makes the difference.
I'm still looking for the room I once located and can't find again. When I find it I believe I will have found a room that is profitable for all who attend.
OK I use 2 trading rooms and I believe both to be legitimate.
It is not that I am a big proponent of trading rooms but they suite my style and give me more confidence.
(1) Absolute Day Trader or now called OEX Street.
This I use to get my trading day started; no education given but simple executable trades called (verbal, on charts and text) with live charts; the results quoted are real. They only give one trade a day near the open for ES and TF. Trade is usually over in 30 mins and based on a computer generated algo. I don't follow his call to the letter but edit/change as I see fit based on my own indicators and PA. He trades 2 contracts on each. They also have an auto trade system for TS; only problem is that you have to be quick with your orders and some days you just don't get filled at the called entry price. I have been with them for about 8 months and have always made my subscription and been profitable.
(2) Easy e Mini
This is Trisha Ogilvie; she is a great teacher and sooo patient with all who ask anything. Also a live room with charts; she calls numerous trades that are optional/riskier and she explains the reasons; she only takes the high probability trades herself and she tells you what she is going to do; she claims 80% probability; seems quite reasonable given her very conservative nature; I get the impression that she is more of an educator/teacher that someone trying to reap your monthly fee; only negative is that there are not many of her high probability setups, so it can be a long day; there is no doubt that after 1-2 months you will have learned enough of her MA crossover S/R trading system to do it yourself.
rg
The following 4 users say Thank You to Volts101 for this post:
My opinion of using a trading room to trade your account is not a good idea. many trading rooms are run by salesman that are out there to trap the newbie in to subscribing to their method. I once was in this predicament where nothing I did made money and I was searching for the easy way - let someone else tell me when to trade
This way in my experience has never worked. I believe many traders resort to the trading rooms for the main reason that they do not trust and have confidence in the method they trade. If this is the case with you regardless of the trading room you will still lose money
you must trust and have confidence in the method you trade without both you are doomed. The best trading room is the one you personally run in front of your computer.
trust and have confidence in the way you trade, when the signal appears pull the trigger, and let the market do what it is going to do. If you have a good sound method to trade the profits will follow you
Trisha is the only trading room/educator I would recomend. She is a good egg and she is very straight forward and has an easy approach. The method I trade now is based on the foundation I learned from her. I can honestly say that you will not make the mega-bazzillions of $$$ promised by others (dream merchants), but she did not damage my account the 2 months I was with her. At the time I started the E-book was $50 and the room was $100 per month. I give Easy e-Mini a big
I have subscribed to PureTick.com's trading room for about 4 months now. PureTick.com has 2 rooms trading all day, every day, the YM and the ES. Alex Wasilewski is the founder of PureTick and he runs the YM room which is the one I subscribe to.
Alex makes calls throughout the day for high probability setups, provides a great deal of education and market insight. Since being in the room, I have taken additional training through the company to help me better understand the setups, entries and targets. I have been trading for just over 3 years and have been through many courses, classes, mentorships, trading rooms and the like. The PureTick YM room is the first trading room that I have been in where the moderator actually takes trades, provides instruction and is exceptionally passionate about what he is doing. Alex is an excellent trader and I have learned a great deal about market psychology primarily dealing with finding stops of newbies and other traders and how to assess where traders might panic during a trading session.
I also am finally realizing how much work, time and commitment it takes to be a professional trader. Alex talks a great deal about this element of trading and has aligned his company with a professional personal coaching company to help traders overcome mental and psychological roadblocks that can preclude success.
I am a firm believer in what PureTick has to offer and am realizing gains now that have eluded me in the past. I am a conservative trader so I am not making a lot of money but have been focusing on making good trades with the goal of slowly adding more contracts as I progress in my accuracy trading rate.
I hope this helps any traders out there that are thinking about looking at a trading room and wish to trade the YM or ES. PureTick does offer a 10 day (trading days) trial and that is how I got started with them.
Dave
The following user says Thank You to daveste99 for this post:
Dave I could not disagree with you more. I was in Alex's room for 2 months and must say it is a total scam. He calls out trades and rings a bell. After you get in the trade he comes out and says he got in earlier than any fill you could have received and is already up 6-7 ticks. He never shows his trades. He never shows his dome. If you question him he gets mad and ridicules you. If you are making money good for you, but it didn't work for me. The results he posts on the website are pure BS! Nobody in the room ever got them any day ever. He should censored by the FTC. Everyone reading the above info should realize Puretick should be renamed Purebul-----.com
New traders should not believe anything that is posted about this "trade room". When I tried to cancel my membership they make you call a number and they give you a hard time about cancelling! I had to cancel my debit card and get a new number to stop the charges. That is real professional. BEWARE!
The following 3 users say Thank You to longboat for this post:
I agree with Longboat, 1000%. I was in his room a couple of years ago for the free trial and Alex is not only rude, but crude. Stay away from that egomaniac.
The following user says Thank You to ct1942 for this post:
I am still a rookie at this trading ,and have been in the process of learning, I have tried many trials on rooms, and subscribed to a few services.
There are great methods here on futures.io (formerly BMT), like CJ's , that you can learn and many more. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's great,thier is so much here that is free,,,,,,,,, but after saying that, I've got to say if you want a trading room, that is opened from bell to bell, and ALL of his educational material, and method of trading,,, comes with the monthly fee, is Davids, Emini addict....
You can get a seven day trial for one cent, and the monthly fee is 29.95 . His room is very educational, he does not call trades,you get a lot of ifs,,,, the market does this,,,etc.... but you can LEARN market structure.. With a minimum amounts of filters.., he is one of the few (besides so many here)that I believe is paying it forward.
2nd is rogers Feltons trading,,,I will going back to that one soon myself,,,most of his trading methods and some webinars and indicators are free right here on futures.io (formerly BMT),and his trading room is free to futures.io (formerly BMT) elites, I guess I would consider him, a momentum type trader, if you know a little you probably can incorporate some stuff to your trading style. I do believe can be helpful.but not much education in room,,,you are on your own thier.
The third is emini junkie, my 400 tick chart, is based on his strategy, I have taken most of the bells and whistles off it, and I play most of the crosses, I consider it a good blue-collar affordable method of trading,mostly you get small chips out of SP......... You have to buy a e-book, that explains his methods, and his room is $69 a month, and it can be confusing because he does trade from the opening bell, and you can get setups with this method both long and short. But I do believe that EJ is 100% sincere,he educates and does call trades,,and does teach more than his method,,,
so saying that don't ever get into a trade that somebody else calls unless it's just confirmation of what you believe.
I put my two cents in, because I spent a lot of money till I found futures.io (formerly BMT), you can learn so much HERE, (and this is a thread that I can contribute to).I hope I can save you lots of money,,,,So remember , try not complicated it to much, the market only does three things. You are the holy Grail. and if you end up in a room use it to LEARN,not for the trade calling.
I do not like advertising for anyone, but I've learned a lot HERE at futures.io (formerly BMT), and I have tried a lot of rooms, and will continue to, on and off, because almost everybody gives a FREE trial now,or almost FREE ,and you can pick something up or maybe start a style you want to develope,and not spend alot of money.
I know that Alex gets a lot of critisizm because of how he makes his calls but that is part of the learning process he wants traders to go through to learn how to trade on their own. Alex does sometimes take early entries because he has a large account and can take small losses. When the trade develops, he will buzz the entry and tell traders to take a limit order somewhere above or below current price.
He does it this way because there are so many newbie traders in the room and he is trying to save them money by taking higher probability trades that are in process, and with a pullback there is a good chance for a winning trade.
One last thing I will say about his win rate; it is based on an initial target of 7 points. 7 points is not hard to attain, if you are on the right side of the trade. After the first target, he recommends 11 points, then a trailer of some sort if you have contracts left.
Alex wants to train people to be professional traders and he treats trading as a high stakes business, as it should be. People coming into trading often do not realize the level of time and commitment it takes to become a pro trader, to support yourself, family and lifestyle. Alex attempts to instill the mindset that is required to become and remain profitable.
I am just another trader that is trying to make it in this business and have found that PureTick.com methodology works for me and I have spent a great deal of time and energy learning how to trade in this manner.
I admit that the PureTick.com trading rooms are not for everyone because not everyone wants to be a professional full time trader and that is what PureTick.com is all about.
People come into the trading room expecting it to be easy because Alex is signalling entries, targets and exits but it does not work that way. Anybody who has been in a paid trading room knows that even if you follow all the directions all the time, you can still lose money. There is just too much discretion in trading to take someone else's calls.
This is my experience and my opinion only, so take it for what it's worth.
does he still turn off the mic after calling the entry (probly he doesn't want you to hear his abacus tablet) then come back and tell you his target? It was rather annoying because I had no idea where did he go and for how long.
The following user says Thank You to cory for this post:
I have been attending a trading room for several months now. I am a consumer only. I have no monetary interest whatsoever in their systems.
Three gentlemen with a combined trading experience of 80+ years moderate the room from 9 - 11:30 Eastern time.
They base their trading on range bars, using 3 or 4 range charts, up to 6 range with higher volatility days to trade and 8-12 range bar charts for long term guidance.
They teach swing trading using both breakout and pullback (they call them probe trades) methods. They call out levels for entry, but not exact entry prices. They do inform you of resistance or support levels where the trades might stall. These are based on previous swing highs or lows. Mr. Rich is uncanny when he predicts pullback levels before prices resume their trends. He makes these calls based on several indicators and 35 years of trading experience.
They do not need to run this room. They do it for the camaraderie and their desire to help traders improve. Of course, I am sure the money they make running the room is a factor, but I have seen them make profits live day after day trading where they show their chart trader charts complete with account number and proper background color showing.
The room follows 6 charts - NQ TF EMD DX 6E and CL --- If the equities are not moving, then the currencies are. Maybe the crude oil is really moving and that is what they concentrate on.
They teach you how to mark your charts and take the trades when the lines are violated. They teach how to recognize pullbacks. They even have a semi-automated system where you can place a trend line on your chart (at ANY angle). Once the line is broken, it fires a market order, places your targets and stops (depending on the settings YOU set) and manages your trade for you. The trailing stop follows at different levels depending on the amount of open profit. If you get into a monster trade and do not want to give up much, you can "crank" your stops to follow closer or place the exit trend line at ANY angle or any price level on the chart. Once the exit line is violated the system exits the trade. In panel 2, the trade's profit and loss graph is plotted for you. If you see an entry and do not have the entry line set, you can just hit the market long or short, and once again the trade is managed for you.
The indicators show the current trend with background colors. The individual bars are painted to show whether the bars are agreeing with the trend, are neutral, or are bucking the trend for a possible change.
They show and teach possible trade targets based on previous swings. The indicators show swing levels and trailing stop dots. The stop dots are different for different range bar charts, and it is uncanny how often you can enter a trade when prices pull back to the stop dots. If the trailing stop dots are broken, you can quickly exit the trade. Or my other option is to wait for a resumption of the trend after the pullback to the stop dots.
They teach you how to establish daily goals and how to quit when your profit or loss goals are met. Their motto is "Nicely Green, turn OFF the machine". The moderator showing the trading charts quite often will bring a live trading chart from his other screens showing his LIVE ACCOUNT (with the right background color on the chart trader panel AND his acct # showing so you know it isn't bull). He rarely fails to show charts every day showing that he is in several contracts and making thousands of dollars. They give you profit targets based on previous swings. Take partial profits when these are reached and leave the rest on @ break even or use intelligent trailing stops. They also let you know when a trade is a loser.
With the volatility these last few months 50 tic trades are common, 90 - 100 tic trades are not unusual in equities or oil. Stops on probe trades are just a few tics, while breakout trade usually have 15 - 20 tic stops based on volatility. They also teach you how to avoid choppy markets, how to recognize choppy markets as opposed to trending markets. If you do get caught in a "head fake" breakout, how you should quickly exit.
In curriencies, they have a proprietary indicator called the Oracle. The Oracle takes into account tons of different information and gives you both a mid and short term value. By waiting till the long term background, the mid and short Oracles all agree, your chances of getting in a currency trade that chops you up are really reduced. It is common the profit targets of 80 tics are reached several times a week. This is their "3 ducks trade" - 3 ducks all in a row. They also teach the "hook" trade. The short term Oracle dips below a certain level, while the mid term stays in the right level. Once the short term hooks back to the proper level, an entry signal is generated.
One unique feature is their HIGH ENERGY TIMES and High Probability Trades. Twice a day (usually around midnight and 4:00 AM) they email the information to you. It is uncanny the amount of times these HETs are close to a swing high or low or a resumption of a trend. These High Energy Times are good for around 40 minutes. Times with a double asterisk attached are VERY strong. High Probability Trades show which instruments are due for a large volatility day based on previous days price action. A lot of customers just use their system to trade around news events and high energy times -- times when the markets are expected to move and breakouts are more common.
They have literally 100s of hours of recorded webinars members can access explaining their methods. They teach proper risk management. They teach breakout and pullback trades in great detail. If you are new to trading, they encourage you to stick to the dollar index or NQ where the risk on their system is $75 (15 tics on 1 contract) till you learn the system. With the current state of price swings lately, $300 profit days on these 2 instruments with only 1 contract are common. At $5 per tick, that is 60 tics per day.
There is a 10 day free trail you can access. The name of the company is Viper Trading Systems. Once again, I am just a satisfied customer. If you are brand new to trading, these simple methods work, the charts are simple. And the good thing is, if you miss a trade, just be patient. Just like trains or planes, another trade is coming along. Trading range bars instead of time based bars allow you to see trends easier. Larger range bar charts are the equivalent to longer time frame charts. By trading the smaller term range bars using the larger term range bars for long trend guidance, you increase your chances for success.
Trading is not easy just be prepared to be wrong anytime you enter a trade till price action shows you otherwise.
Gary, Rich and Charles know this and give support by email or Skype. There are also 4 webinars per week where their methods are discussed and questions are answered for all. Every webinar includes charts of recent trades and methods to improve your skills. If you cannot make it, the webinars are recorded for members.
God Bless
Sparky
The following 2 users say Thank You to sparky for this post:
Everybody is free to do what they want, and if someone wants to give several hundred dollars to charlatans like PT, then go right ahead. But to state that PT is "all about" becoming a "professional full time trader" is actually quite offensive. Professional trading has nothing to do with this... And in a year, or possible two, you will probably understand what I mean.
Do a search on ET for PT/Alex and you will see enough embarrassing displays to want to keep you away. His trading techniques are just ripped off the TTM guys', and apparently he has added a bit on his own.
You just got to love these guys: "WIN/LOSS Ratio: 10.3:1 / 89.9% Entry Accuracy 2006-2011"
Yeah, let's all get rich together...
I did a edit because someone did ask a ? of me.... and I felt like I was advertising for the rooms,,,so this is how I would like to handle this....every room that I have been in ,,is trying to sell me something,buy this dvd,,,buy this book,,,buy this indicator,,,, buy this,,,buy that..I got something new,,, so buy this...,,,or everything is included for.....$X000.95,,this includes all up grades....or bring me someone and I'll give you a cut,,or webmasters....etc......not to mention the phone calls....
so with that said,,he is my edited 2 cents,(everyone is gone except),Emini addicts,only because none of that has happened,and it is really cheap,,,but who knows with time,,,,,,
Most of the people that look at this tread I presume are alot like me(newbies),,,my real advice is spend your time here,,,you can dig up so much gold for free here at(futures.io (formerly BMT))
People who read that recommendation, check how many post from this member.
I checked they method& strategies couple years ago and they where using similar like holt ema for direction and donchian channels
And had different kind of snake systems, and they change those all the time.
Didn't work well that time, not know do they have succes now.
I'll say it again (and again in the future if necessary).
"The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest." -Albert Einstein
You must ask yourself, if YOU could trade and achieve the results that some of these "vendors" are claiming....
Why on Earth would you bother yourself with training/moderating and fee based systems.
A) If you truly could make a 10x profit factor and 90% edge, then there's no amount of fee you could charge that would EVER even come within a light year of the returns you could get just by trading your methods on your own over an entire portfolio.
B) If A holds true, then there's seriously no reason other than straight charity, that a person would bother to operate a trading room.
C) If B holds true, then there's no reason to charge for said room. If you're doing it for "comraderie" and to be "a good guy" and help other traders out, then you wouldn't charge, it would be free.
Even a strategy/method that earns 1% compounded daily yields 12x your money in a trading year with 252 days.
Over the course of 2 years, that grows to a staggering 147 times your money.
For companies advertising (from 2006 to 2010) with returns that dwarf 1%/day, just consider this. A 5 year span earning 1%/trading day would yield 278,567x your money.
That means if you started out with an $10k account, (assuming unlimited growth), after 5 years of 1%/day, you end up with nearly $2.8BN.
And these hacks are claiming 5 and 6 year periods with returns well beyond 1%/trading day.
Sorry if I'm skeptical. Logic and facts speak for themselves. An internet reference is so easy to forge I can't believe I'm wasting the time to address it.
"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
The following 2 users say Thank You to RM99 for this post:
I haven't read this entire thread, but just some thoughts on the various trading rooms I've been in.
What I've always wanted to see in a trading room was someone actively entering and managing a trade. And their thought process when they manage their trade as its in progress. But in ALL BUT ONE trading room I have been in have I ever seen this.
The moderator often says what he thinks about a trade while it's in the process of setting up. But never actually whether he trades it or not. And if that info is put out, it's always 'AFTER THE FACT.' I don't know if it's just the moderator bs'ng, or if it is the trader's fear of publicly being wrong in front of others with the possibility of losing?
The ONLY room where I ever saw a trader place actual LIVE trades as they occurred in his platform with arrows and all was a PAID room I was in for about a two months. He was totally discretionary, and would have different reasons for managing most trades, but I did get to see him manage trades. I saw this guy take a few points from ES most days he traded it. Jared no longer runs that room, and I believe he is now managing a hedge fund. But he was the ONLY person that I have actually personally VERIFIED could trade profitably day in and day out.
Everyone else usually tells you about their trades in hindsight, or at least after the trade is already in some type of profit.
The following user says Thank You to forrestang for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,779 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,305 given,
97,565
received
Not all vendors are evil. Most seem to be, unfortunately -- but not all.
There are some who are honest people, who do not load up their website with outrageous claims and marketing propaganda, do not promise the holy grail, do not show how to double your account in a month, etc.
These same people have every right to charge for their time. Whether they make hundreds, thousands, or millions from their own trading - they still have a right to treat this venture as a business, and to charge for their time. Their time is valuable. I have no problem coming to that realization.
Of course the real challenge is finding an honest vendor that meets the above criteria. And the users, the customers, they don't make it easy. Why? Because most of them are unwilling to put in any time, learn anything other than a "red to blue" trading system, and expect everything to make them rich. After weeks/months/years of dealing with such people, it is easy to lose your own perspective, as you try to accommodate these customers.
Anyway, I don't recommend any vendors. I recommend futures.io (formerly BMT) I've also turned down 100% of all vendors who have approached me wanting to advertise banners on the site for their trading system, methodology, system, etc. But I also have to say not all vendors are evil, and the argument of "those who can't - teach", while true for the majority, is not true of everyone.
The best thing a typical user trying to learn to trade can do --- ask lots of questions before spending any money, ask specifically what one-on-one personalized training and coaching will be included for you, get a written refund policy, and get a written schedule of what training and materials will be provided for their purchase. If any of the material is over-the-top, too good to be true, or if the vendor is unwilling to provide this material prior to a purchase, then just move on. Personally, I would be looking for a "coach" - not a "system", "indicator", etc.
Having been both a student and a mentor maybe I can lend a different perspective.
There are two big positives to offering training. First, it will definitely improve your trading. The initial impact will be negative as you adjust to everything new (trading in front of an audience, additional commitments on your time, etc.) but if you work your way through those issues there are invaluable benefits to be had. Second, over time you will meet some truly great people. Personally I can't think of two better benefits, or even one.
Unfortunately there are many, many negatives which over time begin to outweigh the positives and usually leads to some kind of burnout. I'll list a few of the big ones but this will not be a complete list.
First, if done properly it is a VERY time consuming endeavor and is really like having a full-time job on top of a full-time job.
Second, there isn't any money in it - at least not compared to what you can make trading - so if this was in any way a motivating factor for starting a training business (and IMO it shouldn't be) then you're going to be disappointed.
Third, the traditional training model is fatally flawed because you have the 'student' contracting the 'mentor' which means the student can do whatever they want, whenever they want, if they want, and the mentor has no leverage to affect changes in behavior.
And this is really a HUGE problem because contrary to popular belief the majority of people are poor-to-very poor students - e.g. poor work ethics, short attention spans, poor listening skills, insufficient time and/or resources, lack of discipline/patience, lack of resolve, unwillingness to venture outside of their comfort zones, etc. etc., etc. - which leads to all kinds of different frustrations and eventually leads to getting fed up with the entire process.
Fourth, and this isn't really a meaningful issue - I'm just including it for my own reasons - you have to tolerate reviews of your service made by people who have no earthly business/qualifications/experience in rendering such judgments.
I was going to list a couple more but I need to stop here so I'm going to close this post with three comments. First, all of the above is based on my own experience, and from that experience I can tell you flat out that I can't envision a scenario where I would ever be interested in offering training again.
Second, IMO people need to rethink how they view - and treat - vendors. Now I'm well aware of the ratio of charlatans to the good guys (and more so than most), but the way you folks do it now is reminiscent of the prisoner's dilemma.
And lastly, if you still think a legitimate mentor/vendor should offer a refund, well, you're bloody nuts. Or you just have better drugs than me.....
The following 2 users say Thank You to gibbs for this post:
I guarantee you there is one such room. As a satisfied customer only, I will tell you about this magical room. Each and every day minutes before the market opens, Gary marks his oil charts with simple trend lines and swing levels. While they follow 6 markets, Gary specializes in oil and TF. He tells you IN ADVANCE where he will enter a trade if a swing or a trend line is violated. He announces his profit goal for the trade in advance. His goal is usually the next swing level. At that level you are warned in advance to take a quick profit or tighten your stop. He warns you if a probe trade is setting up, he calls that out in advance with enough time for you to participate if you so choose. If the markets are in chop mode, that is announced as it develops. A big "refrigerator"' box is drawn around the chop zone as it forms. No trades are called in the chop zone, and breakout levels from the chop are also called in advance. Swing levels are called, again in advance, as a place to either take profits, enter trades, or tighten stops. Pull back levels before possible trend resumption are called in advance. If you miss the initial entries, pull backs for either entry or adding to positions are called as they are happening.
The 3 moderators call trades in currencies as they are setting up. They warn you when to stay out of trades because the major move has already occurred. As news events are happening, they tell you as they are occurring whether to be ready to go long or short. Trades after news events take place 3 to 5 minutes after news release, and they RARELY miss the call on the general trend forming. The custom indicators they use clearly show trend forming or continuing. The indicators show trailing stop levels and they teach you when to use them, when to recognize when to get out earlier than stop dots or even when to hold past the stops for yellow bar probe trade setups They announce where they are taking trades, not after the trade starts, with plenty of lead time if you care to participate in the trade.Trailing stops are announced as they are occurring. Oil inventory days usually stir up prices one way or another. They announce as it is happening what possible entry points (levels, not exact prices) to watch for. I have seen way too many 100 - 200 tic trades that they have called the last few months of volatility to doubt their methods. The system of using range bars coupled with breakout trades and probe trades seems to work well.
The same is true before major reports that affect the equity market. While advising you to not initiate a new trade 10-15 minutes before the report, and tightening up your stop on any profitable trades you are in, they watch the price action as the range bars are "shotgunned" across your chart as the news is released. Their indicators, which are very simple to follow, indicate the proper direction to trade. This is announced as it is occuring, and new positions are taken 3-5 minutes after the news release. Quite often as the monster trends we have experienced the last few months develope, all of us in the room are nicely positioned to grab a large part of the 100-150 tic moves that frequently occur after major reports. Trailing stops are upgraded as the trade develops. The moderators show their live chart trader charts showing entries at or close to the levels announced before the trade.
Again, as I said in my last post, I am just a satisfied customer. Viper Trading Systems call trades in advance, take trades as they occur, manage the trade as it occurs, announce winners and losers as they occur without the bull I have heard in other rooms. Having 3 experienced moderators prevents the monotony of a one moderator room. At the end of the 2 hour trading session they do a recap of the trades they took. Why would they put up a doctored up phony chart trader every day showing large profits when day after day after day the system is profitable----- They do not say "Oh well I coulda, shoulda woulda taken a trade in hindsight.The trades are announced in advance with enough lead time for me to get in the trade if I so desire.
There is at least one good room that goes against your blanket indictment I quoted. If you want to be amazed, visit their room. As Bill O'Reilly says, "You are now entering the no spin zone." Many many times after the first 1/2 hour and we hit our daily goals, we are advised - "Nicely green, turn off your machine."
Oh there is such a room. That was the point of my post, that while I believe most moderators of rooms are mainly telling you what they do in HINDSIGHT, I was in a room where I could see a guy's chart, real time, I was also able to verify this chart was in fact real-time via my charts, and I could see each trade he took. Along with his reasoning for his management decisions.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
