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Flux Capacitor - by Back to the Future


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Flux Capacitor - by Back to the Future

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  #201 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Let's not replace one form of advertising with another. Better to keep vendor promotional material in a single place under a organized review thread.

Someone that only posts after-the-fact screenshots and talks about win percentages and profit, but not losses, risk, and expectancy, is not writing a journal worth reading anyway.

Mike

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  #202 (permalink)
 mrmuggins 
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Big Mike View Post
Let's not replace one form of advertising with another. Better to keep vendor promotional material in a single place under a organized review thread.

Someone that only posts after-the-fact screenshots and talks about win percentages and profit, but not losses, risk, and expectancy, is not writing a journal worth reading anyway.

Mike

I love looking at after the fact screenshot, especially when they are advertising a vendor, as in this case, Flux Capacitor. However, I do not know whether they are as good as the recent poster seem to think they are.

So I am going to show my after the fact charts. Whether I took any of the trades that I have highlighted, does not matter, as long as someone offers me $10000.00 to tell them my secret.

I can continue to post these fantasy trades if anyone is interested, but I cannot guarantee that you will make any money. But experience tells me you will end up losing your hard earned cash.

Enjoy. Dudley

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  #203 (permalink)
TraderJim618
Falls Church, VA
 
 
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Sazon View Post
TraderJim would you care to start your own journal with real time postings of some of your trades. Heck, maybe I'll learn something new.

I also think we should keep the focus of this thread solely on BackToTheFuture.

Sazon ... I will consider your suggestion of starting a journal of real time postings of trades. Thanks.

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  #204 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
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BeachTrader View Post
Totally agree. It sounds like he has a combination of systems he is successful with so a journal might be a good idea. We may be able to learn something from it. Otherwise he is getting away from the spirit of vendor review a little bit, IMO.

Does anyone really use only one vendors system by itself (the grail)? If not, how can u have just a Flux or "x" review?

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  #205 (permalink)
TraderJim618
Falls Church, VA
 
 
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mrmuggins View Post
I love looking at after the fact screenshot, especially when they are advertising a vendor, as in this case, Flux Capacitor. However, I do not know whether they are as good as the recent poster seem to think they are.

So I am going to show my after the fact charts. Whether I took any of the trades that I have highlighted, does not matter, as long as someone offers me $10000.00 to tell them my secret.

I can continue to post these fantasy trades if anyone is interested, but I cannot guarantee that you will make any money. But experience tells me you will end up losing your hard earned cash.

Enjoy. Dudley

Mr. Dudley ... Thanks for posting your beautifully drawn charts! One notable difference between your charts and the ones I've posted is that your charts don't indicate where you executed your trades. Mind re-posting where your trades were executed? Thanks in advance.

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  #206 (permalink)
TraderJim618
Falls Church, VA
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
Let's not replace one form of advertising with another. Better to keep vendor promotional material in a single place under a organized review thread.

Someone that only posts after-the-fact screenshots and talks about win percentages and profit, but not losses, risk, and expectancy, is not writing a journal worth reading anyway.

Mike

Hi Mike ... in the spirit of trying to encourage and promote information that can assist other traders, I was attempting to illustrate how I use the software to assist my decision process. Not sure why you were not more welcoming from the start, and decided to take a hostile approach, versus asking politely for further clarification, or more detail, which I'd be happy to provide?

Certainly I encounter losses, and of course losses are a part (essential actually) of the trading landscape. I'd be happy to post those charts if you would like to see them. I do manage my risk. That is the key to this game versus the "signal." I typically risk $200-300/contract traded depending on the entry of the trade into the system I trade, and the instrument traded. I know my entry and exits before entering the trade. If the trade is a swing-trade (30-60 minute chart trade), the stop has to be increased by 2.5 - 3x the amounts mentioned (depending on the instrument traded & placement of the entry). As far as expectancy, I am a discretionary trader, and use the FLUX TCMs as one component to the decision process to execute a trade, or terminate a trade, in the overall system. Therefore specifically, I would not define outcome expectancy on this software as a stand alone. I would not use this software as a stand alone to decide to enter a trade, but that is just my trading style and personality.

It was an immensely useful component to trading Crude today on the short side for great profits. Again, it was used as a tool in combination with my system that helped stacked the odds in my favor. And that's what this game is all about--stacking the odds in your favor, while at the same time accepting the risk that you could be 100% wrong.

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  #207 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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TraderJim618 View Post
Hi Mike ... in the spirit of trying to encourage and promote information that can assist other traders, I was attempting to illustrate how I use the software to assist my decision process. Not sure why you were not more welcoming from the start, and decided to take a hostile approach, versus asking politely for further clarification, or more detail, which I'd be happy to provide?

Certainly I encounter losses, and of course losses are a part (essential actually) of the trading landscape. I'd be happy to post those charts if you would like to see them. I do manage my risk. That is the key to this game versus the "signal." I typically risk $200-300/contract traded depending on the entry of the trade into the system I trade, and the instrument traded. I know my entry and exits before entering the trade. If the trade is a swing-trade (30-60 minute chart trade), the stop has to be increased by 2.5 - 3x the amounts mentioned (depending on the instrument traded & placement of the entry). As far as expectancy, I am a discretionary trader, and use the FLUX TCMs as one component to the decision process to execute a trade, or terminate a trade, in the overall system. Therefore specifically, I would not define outcome expectancy on this software as a stand alone. I would not use this software as a stand alone to decide to enter a trade, but that is just my trading style and personality.

It was an immensely useful component to trading Crude today on the short side for great profits. Again, it was used as a tool in combination with my system that helped stacked the odds in my favor. And that's what this game is all about--stacking the odds in your favor, while at the same time accepting the risk that you could be 100% wrong.

You posted your review. Move on. Anything further in this thread reads like an advertisement and questions your intentions and affiliations.

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  #208 (permalink)
 bopwillie 
Nashville Tennessee/United States
 
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Well, I just bit the bullet and am now trying to learn this system. Ron, the daily web-instructor does an excellent job, extremely patient, and speaks as he has actually traded before. He is a more mature businessman and knows the Flux system backwards and forwards. Not sure about the younger Michael, if he trades or not. He is the salesman part of their business. Now the system itself is "ghz" hungry; otherwise, you are talking s-l-o-w chart reactions. I had to get additional RAM for my 2.8 ghz 6-core. I may break for a new 5i or better. Have to say, I've seen some terrific signals by looking back with the software 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks and then analyzing what the signals mean on the day of trading. They need a trial period though. The thought of dropping a couple of thousand bucks for more signals should allow one some hands on time. Michael is a bit sales-pushy - "you'll get this 'IF' you get onboard now", and lacks Ron's patience. Once the purchase is made and you are inside the website, with password, etc., you will find that "other" indicators are there for a price. Monthly leases run an additional $195.00 for a special grouping of indicators, and there are some indicators that can be singularly purchased. Every trader knows that you cannot offer your bank-account to an indicator without confirmation of other items on our lists. Flux gives plenty of signals depending on how you configure your charts. Al Brooks price action course is an excellent learning tool to compliment Flux. I am looking hard everyday at this system and will be glad to post my outcomes as they develop. One gent on the Big Mike team has already enjoyed good success with an NG trade. Look at his chart. Congrats on that trade, sir. I'd like to have an actual chat room develop to share results and learning experiences with the Flux. With so many moving parts to it, I'd like to speak with someone who has narrowed down the use of Flux-tools. More later . . .

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  #209 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
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bopwillie View Post
Well, I just bit the bullet and am now trying to learn this system. Ron, the daily web-instructor does an excellent job, extremely patient, and speaks as he has actually traded before. He is a more mature businessman and knows the Flux system backwards and forwards. Not sure about the younger Michael, if he trades or not. He is the salesman part of their business. Now the system itself is "ghz" hungry; otherwise, you are talking s-l-o-w chart reactions. I had to get additional RAM for my 2.8 ghz 6-core. I may break for a new 5i or better. Have to say, I've seen some terrific signals by looking back with the software 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks and then analyzing what the signals mean on the day of trading. They need a trial period though. The thought of dropping a couple of thousand bucks for more signals should allow one some hands on time. Michael is a bit sales-pushy - "you'll get this 'IF' you get onboard now", and lacks Ron's patience. Once the purchase is made and you are inside the website, with password, etc., you will find that "other" indicators are there for a price. Monthly leases run an additional $195.00 for a special grouping of indicators, and there are some indicators that can be singularly purchased. Every trader knows that you cannot offer your bank-account to an indicator without confirmation of other items on our lists. Flux gives plenty of signals depending on how you configure your charts. Al Brooks price action course is an excellent learning tool to compliment Flux. I am looking hard everyday at this system and will be glad to post my outcomes as they develop. One gent on the Big Mike team has already enjoyed good success with an NG trade. Look at his chart. Congrats on that trade, sir. I'd like to have an actual chat room develop to share results and learning experiences with the Flux. With so many moving parts to it, I'd like to speak with someone who has narrowed down the use of Flux-tools. More later . . .

Interesting observation about the vendors. I got the flux about 5 yrs ago. Michael was obviously the suit and Ron was a trader with or without the flux.. Seems like even with good tools and guidance Michael is still just the suit and cannot trade. The lesson is (myself included) if u dont have basic trading talent, no tools will make u successful in this business if u really have no talent, at least none I have seen so far.

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  #210 (permalink)
 bopwillie 
Nashville Tennessee/United States
 
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Trading: CL, ES, NQ, GC
 
Posts: 33 since May 2012
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I posted my first comment about Flux Trading System last week. Just a quick note today about the CL. Last night I gave the charts a look and could see that the CL "might" make a move at 08:33 CDT this morning. The analytics behind the Flux and the histograms "predict" possible moves. This morning, the CL moved short at 08:34:10 on the 512 tick chart. To me, one of the beautiful parts of the Flux is that if the move indeed follows the signal, then I do not have to stay at the screen long hours, I can pinpoint, as I did this morning, when to be in front of my computer. I arrived at 08:15 to watch.

Last night, I also took note of a possible NQ signal to go long at 09:33 CDT today July 15th. Ron, the webmaster in the training garage each morning, tells of "inversions" and how to spot and trade them. In other words, you do not just go immediately with a long or short signal. By following Ron's rules this morning, the NQ 512 tick chart went "short" against the long signal. Following Ron's inversion rules would have made NQ a successful trade to the short-side at 09:37:19.

I admit I am an early user of this system and still testing the Flux but it certainly looks good so far. I'll post more info as time and the system reveals. Best wishes to all. bopwillie

Note to Big Mike: If direct contact by phone or email is ok'd by the site rules, I would not mind sharing.

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  #211 (permalink)
 MarkG 
Switzerland
 
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Attached is the latest chart sent out by Michael of Back to the Future Trading. He claims "where we knew with reasonable certainty...65%+ accuracy, that the move was coming, and in what direction".

I have marked the chart with thick green lines for winning trades and thick red lines for losing trades.

As you can see, if you count PowerZone (big dot) trades only, there are 3 winners and 4 losers (43% winners).

If you are more aggressive and count both PowerZone (big dot) and AMACD (small dot) trades, there are 10 winners and 10 losers (50% winners).

I have never known how they come up with there 65-70% certainty and can justify it but to me it is more like 50% (which is the probability you get when you draw random dots).

For your information to draw your own conclusions.


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  #212 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
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MarkG View Post
Attached is the latest chart sent out by Michael of Back to the Future Trading. He claims "where we knew with reasonable certainty...65%+ accuracy, that the move was coming, and in what direction".

I have marked the chart with thick green lines for winning trades and thick red lines for losing trades.

As you can see, if you count PowerZone (big dot) trades only, there are 3 winners and 4 losers (43% winners).

If you are more aggressive and count both PowerZone (big dot) and AMACD (small dot) trades, there are 10 winners and 10 losers (50% winners).

I have never known how they come up with there 65-70% certainty and can justify it but to me it is more like 50% (which is the probability you get when you draw random dots).

For your information to draw your own conclusions.


I have seen the vendor comment in this thread maybe Michael of Back to the Future Trading can comment..

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  #213 (permalink)
 Magiklair 
Alexandria, Minnesota
 
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I don't mean to stick up for the product. But it is a small sample size. If they could supply us with a couple weeks of charts from June to July 14 etc.. That would give us a better sample size.
regards

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  #214 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
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Magiklair View Post
I don't mean to stick up for the product. But it is a small sample size. If they could supply us with a couple weeks of charts from June to July 14 etc.. That would give us a better sample size.
regards

I think MarkG point was that the vendor sent out this snippet of a chart, and we dont really see what the vendor thinks we should see as reasonable, so I dont think a bigger sample would make any difference.
"Attached is the latest chart sent out by Michael of Back to the Future Trading. He claims "where we knew with reasonable certainty...65%+ accuracy, that the move was coming, and in what direction"."

Don

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  #215 (permalink)
 bopwillie 
Nashville Tennessee/United States
 
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Yepper, I bit the bullet on the software package. After studying and employing "Al Brooks Price Action" for four years, I can tell you first hand that less on a screen is better - BTTFT fills a screen mostly with non-essential lines, dots, etc. BTTFT needs a 30-day free-look like the gentleman in the F-16 trading room. The gentleman in charge of that room is not in favor of indicators as he tells you. However, with that as a back drop, he does use proprietary software to make his calls. After speaking with him, I know he possesses great experience as a person and professional trader. He is also keenly interested in the success of a trader. [And, I am not a relative of his . . :-)]

As Big Mike would say it, "No indicator will make a successful trader. It take lots of screen time." Moral: don't pay for fancy promises or enthusiastically presented software. If inclined to purchase, make certain you speak with at least two professional traders and review their actual trading accounts. If the vendor or the person interviewed does not answer all of your Q's, do not buy!

Serious note: As in the case of BTTFT, there were "discoveries on their website" that were not disclosed before I purchased. Full-disclosure should be extremely important!! Now, back to trading and best to all!!!

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  #216 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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Broker: Mirus/Kinetick
Trading: Futures, Oil, Gold, NQ
 
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Hey Gentlemen,

When analyzing behavioral time patterns, traders should look at local trend to identify the propensity of the people who move the market to move more in that direction when a certain time comes up again in the cycle.

Referencing the chart above - each of those times were analyzed using a historical look back to identify specific times in the past when institutional traders had bought or sold CL.

Richard Wyckoff, father of modern "Volume Spread Analysis" techniques proposed a way to interpret the market in one of two formats - either the accumulation phase - or the distribution phase. Up trend, or down trend.

If we analyze the chart above posted by Mark - we see information (not trading signals as Mark suggests). The information being analyzed for accuracy is held to a specific benchmark - did structure bear out the existence of someone buying or selling when the cycle came around again?

It's especially important to look at the times that are in the direction of the prevailing trend - using Wyckoff's theories. In that case, we'd evaluate based on trend and compare to the dots. We'd look to see - did the market close higher, after the green dot printed in an uptrend - did the market close lower, after the red dot printed in a downtrend.



When you identify a time that the market has a tendency usually go up at - or down at - watching for activity that corresponds to an accumulation phase or distribution phase can enhance the probability of that behavior recurring again. In the case of the chart Mark posted - watch at the times like 10:00am....there is a consolidation phase - 10:00 was the swing high inside the congestion, and then the market broke down for 2 hours - directly into the 12:15 "green dot" time.

Wyckoff would call the green dot time at 12:15 a "re-distribution" phase. We don't expect a move up here. If anything, we expect congestion (which is what appears, structurally), or very small retracements. The expectation of congestion at the predicted time is met, as the market consolidates for 5 bars (1.25 hours).

The next "red dot" signal lines up with Wyckoff's market theories as well. If there's an expectation of another move at a certain time - identified however it's identified - we'd expect that time to be a 'structural high'. That is to say - if the institutions are in fact about to sell again (as identified by time), structurally, what would we expect to see at that time?

a. a pullback, in the direction of the trend
b. a structural high, at the identified time (the market 'peaks out', indicating the pending "sling shot" move)

At 11:00pm - we see both of those criteria met. Using time analysis - however you do it - you could look forward to the next point in time where buying behavior patterns have been observed. In Wyckoff's world - it has the potential to either be another congestion area (re-distribution) or an actual low (conversion from distribution to accumulation with a "spring" pattern prior to the reversal). In either case - we're looking to see if that behavior pattern is observed. at 3:30 am did,

a. the market put in a structural low, and/or
b. consolidate for a structurally significant period of time (indicating institutional involvement), and/or
c. reversal of the market directionally

Go back in whatever market you trade, across days/weeks/months and make a list of the times that the instrument has a tendency to go up, or down...and keep track of it. If those cycles/behavior patterns repeat into the future, overlaying Richard Wyckoff's market theory has tremendous value. Down times in down cycles are powerfully forceful moves with minimum adverse excursion - up times in a down trend are areas where the downtrend is expected to stop, retrace slightly, or congest. Up times in an uptrend, the exact opposite (reference Mark's chart, above, at 12:00pm on the very left side of the chart).

If you had generated the above times in your personal analysis (you don't need our software to do it - you can do it by hand), and overlaid an accumulation/distribution model on top of those times, you'd have given preference to the following times:

12:00 pm (green dots, up trend)
11:00pm (green dots, up trend)
10:00 am red dot, down trend)
11:00pm (red dot, down trend)
6:45 am (red dot, down trend)
3:15pm (red dot - when price action closes below down trend)
3:15am (red dot - down trend)
9:30 am (red dot - down trend)
10:00 am (red dot - down trend)
4:30 am (red dot - down trend)

Traders that use timing analysis would benefit greatly from Wyckoff's market theories. I find, personally, that it took me 5 years of personal trading angst to realize I was bottom and top picking at places where there was not much meat, theoretically, to be had. I was in fact choosing to enter the market where it was most likely to chop, with volatility. Learning to trade with trend signals - and using counter trend signals to identify profit areas, or re-entry areas with break out was a pivotal moment for me...something any of us could agree is a painful lesson to learn.

One great quote that captures the methodology pretty clearly comes from Wyckoff directly,

"…In order for there to be an effect (change in price), there needs to be a cause. The effect will be in direct proportion to that cause. Best price moves occur when there has been enough time to allow*for a period*of*accumulation or distribution..."

If you go through your charts - on any instrument - with a watch and an excel sheet - you can identify the areas where the "cause" exists. These causes can be anything from unknown Institutional buying and selling program times - or moments when the moon is directly overhead Chicago on a Tuesday. Reverse engineering that "cause" and applying it directionally (with trend) seemed to be something he endorsed. After observing WD Gann trade for a number of years, Wyckoff's methodology begins to hint that he was studying time, as well,

"....The experience of the past few years has emphasized the value of disregarding all considerations except those which relate to price movement, volume, and time…”

So in his mind - identifying the "cause" times before they occurred again - and watching for his market theory/ VSA theories to play out at those times were the highest probability entry areas for him.

Try the experiment with any instrument you trade - put a NinjaTrader "zig-zag" indi on there and record the times the swings occur on your time frame of choice. Then watch those times in the future and see what happens when those times line up with prevailing local trend.

Please send me a Private Message if you have any questions about BTTFT services
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  #217 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, MetaTrader
Broker: Mirus/Kinetick
Trading: Futures, Oil, Gold, NQ
 
Posts: 49 since Mar 2010
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bopwillie View Post
Yepper, I bit the bullet on the software package. After studying and employing "Al Brooks Price Action" for four years, I can tell you first hand that less on a screen is better - BTTFT fills a screen mostly with non-essential lines, dots, etc. BTTFT needs a 30-day free-look like the gentleman in the F-16 trading room. The gentleman in charge of that room is not in favor of indicators as he tells you. However, with that as a back drop, he does use proprietary software to make his calls. After speaking with him, I know he possesses great experience as a person and professional trader. He is also keenly interested in the success of a trader. [And, I am not a relative of his . . :-)]

As Big Mike would say it, "No indicator will make a successful trader. It take lots of screen time." Moral: don't pay for fancy promises or enthusiastically presented software. If inclined to purchase, make certain you speak with at least two professional traders and review their actual trading accounts. If the vendor or the person interviewed does not answer all of your Q's, do not buy!

Serious note: As in the case of BTTFT, there were "discoveries on their website" that were not disclosed before I purchased. Full-disclosure should be extremely important!! Now, back to trading and best to all!!!

-Hey "Bob-Willie". I'm not sure what to make of what you said. If you're not happy with your purchase, or feel something with one of the behavioral analysis indicators isn't working properly I'd be happy to meet with you and resolve the issue - with a refund or by repairing whatever technical issues you're having. I have no records on file indicating any customers from Tennessee had an issue or a grievance. I'm not sure who you are - but I'm available all weekend if you want to call me and talk. As always there are also customers you can talk to - pre or post purchase, that can and are willing to help you make decisions. That always was, and continues to be a volunteer based resource.

Chart cleanliness is a great help in reducing psychological disparities and "self sabotage". Many traders will put as many as 10 indicators on their desktops believing "more is better". Often times, they'll choose to focus on the information that disagrees with their trading plan in a subconscious effort to sabotage themselves (mentally talk themselves out of a good trade). I know I used to do that all the time.

Most of the profitable trader's I've met have 3 or fewer indicators on their charts. I met one man, who trades CL with a 50 period SMA. I think people internalize the indicators they start out using...that is to say, they're able to "see" in their minds what the tool has taught them to see over time. Kind of like having a back brace that teaches you to use good posture, and then you develop muscle memory afterwards and always use good posture afterwards "naturally".

The guy who helped me learn to trade incorporated 3 important "qualifiers" that are relatively universal.

a. What is trend doing?
b. Where is the nearest support and resistance level?
c. Where does your signal stand in relation to (a) and (b)

If the market is moving up - support below you provides reassurance of an initial reaction. If you're using a floor trader's "PP" or a Fib cluster - there's an expectation of an impulse move away from s/r. The statistics bear out the reactions will be higher, and faster - with trend (something Gann pointed out frequently over a 100 years ago).



Using opposite resistance levels can help deduce risk reward as well. If resistance is 10 ticks above you ,and support is 30 ticks below you - you have an inverted RR condition and should pass.

Over time, I expect to not have trend indicators on the screen. Right now, that fat blue line tells me "HEY STUPID, TREND IS UP". I need that reminder, which will one day be a subconscious determination.

Please send me a Private Message if you have any questions about BTTFT services
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  #218 (permalink)
 MarkG 
Switzerland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Kinetick, CQG
Trading: CL, FDAX, Forex
 
Posts: 18 since Jun 2012
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BTTFT Michael,

The point is that you cannot justify your claim "where we knew with reasonable certainty...65%+ accuracy, that the move was coming, and in what direction".

This is one example. There are many other claims that you make and never justify.

You have no credibility if you cannot back your claims.


BTTFT Michael View Post
Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb...


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  #219 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
Experience: Advanced
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Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire)
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If it is not a mechanical system,, its worth is in the eye of the beholder!

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  #220 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
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MarkG View Post
BTTFT Michael,

The point is that you cannot justify your claim "where we knew with reasonable certainty...65%+ accuracy, that the move was coming, and in what direction".

This is one example. There are many other claims that you make and never justify.

You have no credibility if you cannot back your claims.

Hi Mark,

The non-marketing terms of this website as dictated to me by Mike prevent me from responding to you using examples to substantiate my accuracy claims, as they fall under the "self-promotion" clauses of this forum. I can justify it - I'm just not allowed to do it here.

There are examples of automated systems that could be discussed, and displayed, that violate the Vendor-non-marketing terms and conditions of this website which I respect, and attempt always to strictly adhere to. I do not wish to be thrown off of the site, and have an understanding with Mike that if people want to see claims substantiated, they have to contact me privately - which I also encourage, and am happy to do.

As you can imagine, any edge can be harnessed - in an automated, semi-automated, or even as the basis for a discretionary format. Most people I've come across who are using timing analysis and data mining in their trading, are using timing as a secondary indicator - in conjunction with another primary / non-correlated tool (VSA or price action HH/HL/LH/LL for example).

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  #221 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire)
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 201 since Jul 2009
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hi Mark,

The non-marketing terms of this website as dictated to me by Mike prevent me from responding to you using examples to substantiate my accuracy claims, as they fall under the "self-promotion" clauses of this forum. I can justify it - I'm just not allowed to do it here.

There are examples of automated systems that could be discussed, and displayed, that violate the Vendor-non-marketing terms and conditions of this website which I respect, and attempt always to strictly adhere to. I do not wish to be thrown off of the site, and have an understanding with Mike that if people want to see claims substantiated, they have to contact me privately - which I also encourage, and am happy to do.

As you can imagine, any edge can be harnessed - in an automated, semi-automated, or even as the basis for a discretionary format. Most people I've come across who are using timing analysis and data mining in their trading, are using timing as a secondary indicator - in conjunction with another primary / non-correlated tool (VSA or price action HH/HL/LH/LL for example).

Maybe MarkG or some other member could contact Micheal and report back here with the proof.. Also with the language of automation , Seems like a vendor can submit a bot to run in the unofficial category ..

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  #222 (permalink)
 BobStevens 
Philadelphia, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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There are many naysayers to this software package. You reinforced a valuable lesson "Free Advice is generally worth what you pay for it ...nothing."

I am happy that I went to a couple of presentations to see for myself. I thought it impressive and bought it. It does take screen time, I am not aware of a system that does not. The reward for me have been well worth the effort. Depending upon volatility in the market I garner between 90 and 200 ticks per contract per day. I generally trade Oil and the Russell between 8:30 - 11:30 Eastern Time. Beside the ticks, it is virtually stress free trading, almost boring sometimes.

Is it for everyone, heck no! - Nothing is. It is for someone who wants an edge to their trading.

Don't take my word for it, and don't take the word of the naysayers who spent a modicum of time reviewing, or disbelieving the concepts. Listen to the seminars yourself, with an open mind. Pay attention to the content presented, not the personality of the presenters

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  #223 (permalink)
 MarkG 
Switzerland
 
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Attached is a chart emailed out by Michael of Back to the Future Trading last Wednesday, September 23, 2015. He states "looking for setups in TIME where the institutions are most likely to make a move, like this one in Crude, today".

I have marked the chart with thick green lines for winning trades and thick red lines for losing trades.

As you can see, if you count PowerZone (big dot) trades only, there are 3 winners and 6 losers (33% winners).

If you are more aggressive and count both PowerZone (big dot) and AMACD (small dot) trades, there are 6 winners and 10 losers (37% winners).

I have never known how Back to the Future Trading have determined their 65-70% certainty and can justify it but to me it is at best 50% (which is the probability you get when you draw random dots).

I'm an owner of a licensed copy of the software package and have been trying for several years to incorporate it in a trading system.

I even digitized all the signals and fed them into a statistical based machine-learning system in order to disprove the "null hypothesis". After spending hundreds of hours, I came to the conclusion that you CANNOT "Know with statistical certainty when a move was coming - to the minute - and in what direction" with this software.

For your information and to help you draw your own conclusions.


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  #224 (permalink)
 BobStevens 
Philadelphia, PA
 
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Hi Mark,

I guess one of the things that needs correcting is that on the chart you’ve shared, you’re calling every dot a “trade entry”. Never has Michael said these were trade entries – in fact, there’s no evidence really of any strict stop/target backtesting here. You’re just drawing lines dot to dot and expecting an “ATM” machine response. That’s unrealistic in my opinion.

In the classes, Michael teaches that the signals in the direction of the overall trend that occur in time are usually more pronounced, which is exactly what shows up on this chart. Signals with trend – is a concept that is consistent with Wyckoff accumulation and distribution theory, meaning the times that are in the direction of the down trend, are more powerful moves. The times that are opposite trends, produce weaker moves, or consolidation.

If I take the chart you’ve marked up – “trading” signal to signal – and apply just one small set of rules – trading with trend, the system becomes profitable.

In your drawing, I’ve “whited-out” all your annotations, and put big arrows on the times that were occurring with trend – the red dots. Then I looked at what happened if I went short at those times, and held the trade until the next green dot time – the time Michael would teach that buyers historically show up. This system I believe is taught in the videos as the “FM16 Trend Trade”. Well you can see from the mark up that every one of the setups was profitable….with 1 “flat” trade. A far cry from 33%. Notice how I wait for the 2nd of the 2 dots if the POWERZONE and AMACD dots are within 5 minutes of each other. That’s important….if two times are within a few minutes of each other, I was taught to wait for the 2nd one to “catch up” and come into phase. . .




I don’t think there’s a person on here who would reasonably conclude they are telling you to trade “dot to dot”, all the dots. It’s never presented as a setup like you’re displaying. A setup involves a stop, a target, money management, a trading style (trend, counter trend, support and resistance, etc). Your chart is dot to dot to dot to dot to dot, and I can’t remember Michael or Ron ever teaching that was the way to ‘trade it’. My trading plan has very strict entry and exit rules that allow me to take between 80-120 ticks per day, per contract, more with recent volatility. If I took every signal from every indicator I’d be broke.

I’ve also attached the chart Michael put in the room to help people understand the Wyckoff theory I just told you. If you attend the classes each week, you should have a copy of this. Also, have you contacted Michael or Ron, or sat in any of their classes? They give away rules based strategies that have set entries and exits with trading plans built on the system that are profitable. They want you to succeed. I know because I’m using one of them… I have "coached" about a dozen other traders to have success similar to or better than mine. So it is teachable and transferable if you are willing to put in the time.



Best regards,

Bob

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  #225 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
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Hi Mark,

Forum rules prevent me from responding critically to your post, defending it in any way - as this would be perceived as "Marketing". I don't want to get thrown off the forum, again.

My first and primary concern is for you, and your trading - and satisfaction with our product. Our records show no recent activity in any of the live training rooms, or correspondence from you with regards to your experiences with the product. As I'm sure you'll agree, it's virtually impossible to solve a problem you don't know exists.

CL is our most popularly traded market among profitable customers. I would love to schedule a GoToMeeting between you, me, and the other founder of the company - Ron Gardner - who live trades the signals for our corporate account. We can give you a defined rule-set whose profitability ranges from 62-67% in CL, with a defined discretion free trading plan. Just judging from the chart above - you never tried to develop a trading plan and spent more time "disproving" something you just purchased...which strikes me as contradictory and odd (but I don't know the full story).

I can be reached whenever you're free at:

(336) 703-7667 (mobile number)

Skype: Integra-Michael

Email: Michael@backtothefuturetrading.com

....to schedule the class, and teach you the setups I mentioned above. I hope you'll take me up on it, and give us an opportunity to teach you how to use the thing you bought.

-Michael

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  #226 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hi Mark,

Forum rules prevent me from responding critically to your post, defending it in any way - as this would be perceived as "Marketing". I don't want to get thrown off the forum, again.
...

CL is our most popularly traded market among profitable customers. I would love to schedule a GoToMeeting between ...

(336) 703-7667 (mobile number)

Skype: Integra-Michael

Email: Michael@backtothefuturetrading.com

....to schedule the class, and teach you the setups I mentioned above. I hope you'll take me up on it, and give us an opportunity to teach you how to use the thing you bought.

-Michael

still looks exactly like marketing.

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  #227 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, MetaTrader
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Hey Cory,

The last 3 customers (three) that tried to post positive reviews on here were tossed off because

(a) they didn't have 20 posts somewhere else on the site (the minimum "post" requirement or
(b) they were told that they were probably someone from my company.

The first customer manages a multi-million dollar hedge fund, and trades profitably.

The second customer has a net worth of over $10,000,000 - and makes on average $1,500-$2,000 a week.

Those posts don't make it to this forum, for some reason.

When I see a customer who is struggling on here - I'm going to react. I'm going to ask honest questions - like, "What was your trading plan?", or, "what was your expectancy of the model you were testing".

When you came out with your VOLSTOP indicator, no where did you ever say, "take every signal, signal to signal". Guys discussed how they were trading it - trading with trend, trading as S/R, trading at POC, VAL, VAH. When someone suggests that for one of your indicators, everyone corrects them. When I do it - and offer help, it's marketing.

I've given up caring what non-customers on this forum think. I've reached out to the customer - who made a mistake - without any training....went off on his own and had difficulties. I don't treat it like the other vendors - the sale and run guys that couldn't give a rat's ass.

Wait - that probably sounded like marketing too....LOL.

I give up. Think what you think, man. Live long and prosper, everyone.

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  #228 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hey Cory,

The last 3 customers (three) that tried to post positive reviews on here were tossed off because

(a) they didn't have 20 posts somewhere else on the site (the minimum "post" requirement or
(b) they were told that they were probably someone from my company.

I'd like to research your claims, please provide specifics including their usernames.

Mike

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  #229 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hey Cory,

..

All you have to do is saying 'pm me' like any other vendor. Mike was pretty clear on that.

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  #230 (permalink)
 DrRumpy 
Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MetaTrader
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hey Cory,

The last 3 customers (three) that tried to post positive reviews on here were tossed off because

(a) they didn't have 20 posts somewhere else on the site (the minimum "post" requirement or
(b) they were told that they were probably someone from my company.

The first customer manages a multi-million dollar hedge fund, and trades profitably.

The second customer has a net worth of over $10,000,000 - and makes on average $1,500-$2,000 a week.

Those posts don't make it to this forum, for some reason.

When I see a customer who is struggling on here - I'm going to react. I'm going to ask honest questions - like, "What was your trading plan?", or, "what was your expectancy of the model you were testing".

When you came out with your VOLSTOP indicator, no where did you ever say, "take every signal, signal to signal". Guys discussed how they were trading it - trading with trend, trading as S/R, trading at POC, VAL, VAH. When someone suggests that for one of your indicators, everyone corrects them. When I do it - and offer help, it's marketing.

I've given up caring what non-customers on this forum think. I've reached out to the customer - who made a mistake - without any training....went off on his own and had difficulties. I don't treat it like the other vendors - the sale and run guys that couldn't give a rat's ass.

Wait - that probably sounded like marketing too....LOL.

I give up. Think what you think, man. Live long and prosper, everyone.


Hi @BTTFT Michael,


I receive e-mails from your company and sometimes I watch the videos linked in them. I am not a customer. You make some fair points in your rebuttals, and I do agree that at times the "anti-vendor" sentiment is so strong here, you might not get a fair shake.

That said, verifiable results (proof) can win an argument. You could PM folks on the forum and show them P/L, expectancy, backtests, etc. Those people could then relay what they saw. Better yet, take a single notable/credible member of the futures.io (formerly BMT) community and let them trade the EXACT strategy on CL you are proposing for this latest struggling customer.

There are avenues to winning this argument or at least countering with some verifiable metrics. It would require more than writing protest responses. Hell, I would even contribute CASH into a pool so you could have something for your time if a member like @cory (not that he would or should volunteer) stepped up to test the defined CL strategy.

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  #231 (permalink)
 MarkG 
Switzerland
 
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BobStephens,

In the email, Mike never mentioned the trend direction or what criteria he was using to define the trend to make the claim to "Know with statistical certainty when a move was coming - to the minute - and in what direction". One would assume that all dots are tradeable.

Such statements fool newcomers. I don't like to see this promulgated and the vendors need to be challenged. Otherwise, the industry's reputation goes further downhill.

Regards, Mark
p.s. Your chart (that edited my marked up chart) has errors that would need correcting.
p.p.s Random dots in the trend direction could possibly be profitable when the market is trending.
p.p.p.s I attended many BTTF trade rooms.

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  #232 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
Experience: Advanced
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Mike has started a new thread and I propose that any legit and ethical vendor who is willing to share their factual daily records and also gets a customer or 2 to share their actual experience on this forum should be allowed to become part of this wonderful community.

We can not and should not treat all vendors alike. There are few very good ones and we all will be so much better off if we get to learn and share their methods

Yes to join will be a fee and better still the legit vendors can offer futures.io (formerly BMT) members a prefential discount and that way they will get more for their money and marketing cost then bombarding people with marketing emails

futures.io (formerly BMT) is large enough to make a good income for any vendor if they are ethical

My Saturday morning thoughts and what say you members and the Big Guy Big Mike

Sharmas

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  #233 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sharmas View Post
Mike has started a new thread and I propose that any legit and ethical vendor who is willing to share their factual daily records and also gets a customer or 2 to share their actual experience on this forum should be allowed to become part of this wonderful community.

We can not and should not treat all vendors alike. There are few very good ones and we all will be so much better off if we get to learn and share their methods

Yes to join will be a fee and better still the legit vendors can offer futures.io (formerly BMT) members a prefential discount and that way they will get more for their money and marketing cost then bombarding people with marketing emails

futures.io (formerly BMT) is large enough to make a good income for any vendor if they are ethical

My Saturday morning thoughts and what say you members and the Big Guy Big Mike

Sharmas

Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about.

If you mean this:


I wouldn't apply it to this scenario. This vendor already has done a good job with contact info on his website.

Please @sharmas do not invite vendors to "prove" their system on futures.io (formerly BMT). It is against forum policy to promote your product and service, and I have no time to babysit a bunch of worthless backtests or sim trades or vendors that "call" trades in their room and then show spreadsheets of how much money they make which bear no correlation to what was actually discussed in the room.

The list is never ending, and I will not invite vendors to take those tactics to futures.io (formerly BMT).

Vendors always say they can't show broker statements for whatever reason. It's bs. I showed broker statements, real-time fills, daily statements, monthly statements, quarterly statements, ytd statements --- so everyone could plainly see my trades. If I can do it -- someone that is not selling my trades -- then surely a service that is selling something can do it. Accept nothing less.

Mike

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  #234 (permalink)
 scrooge33 
Kennesaw, GA/USA
 
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BobStevens View Post
There are many naysayers to this software package. You reinforced a valuable lesson "Free Advice is generally worth what you pay for it ...nothing."

I am happy that I went to a couple of presentations to see for myself. I thought it impressive and bought it. It does take screen time, I am not aware of a system that does not. The reward for me have been well worth the effort. Depending upon volatility in the market I garner between 90 and 200 ticks per contract per day. I generally trade Oil and the Russell between 8:30 - 11:30 Eastern Time. Beside the ticks, it is virtually stress free trading, almost boring sometimes.

Is it for everyone, heck no! - Nothing is. It is for someone who wants an edge to their trading.

Don't take my word for it, and don't take the word of the naysayers who spent a modicum of time reviewing, or disbelieving the concepts. Listen to the seminars yourself, with an open mind. Pay attention to the content presented, not the personality of the presenters


Hello Mr. Stevens,

How long exactly have you been using BTTFT? I ask because I'd like to gauge your success of 90 to 200 ticks per lot or 80 to 120 ticks per lot like your later post relayed. Either way I'm impressed! Also could you provide some screen shots explaining your success?


Blessings!

[/SIGPIC]
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  #235 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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what an interesting an eventful session this was yesterday.

Michael loves his system and his own voice..He was barking and i mean it when I say barking at another member and was so condescending in his manner.

I asked him a question and he answered as wasn't sure if his signals meant going Long or Short...After that another signal did not workout so i asked him for clarification.

Michael the great did not respond to my questions ( as the signal went against his call) I stayed in the room for another 30 minutes and asked him few times.

Before leaving the room due to frustration said that he is yet another vendor who will only respond when he is right or market works out.....No response and left the room...

He than followed up with a not so pleasant email...What a hero....he had the opportunity to respond in the room but choose not to...

Well yet another Vendor who is promoted @NinjaTrader on regular basis shows the true colors...

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  #236 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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Hey Saten, thanks for posting this - it gives me a chance to tell everyone what happened yesterday.

The nice part about GoToMeeting, is that it saves everything you type to me in the room...and I don't have to remember what you said, versus just copying and pasting things.

When you arrived at the 5 hour class, about 45 minutes into the room you were asking if you should "go long" or "go short" based on the signals you had seen for a sum total of 45 minutes. Anyone in the BMT community knows that you don't trade signals you have no statistical history with. It became very clear in our exchange that you were less concerned about learning - and more concerned with me calling out live signals that could be shadow traded.

When I started to answer your questions - which were great questions - you typed the following 2 statements to me 49 minutes into a 5 hour class:

"okay..this has been a waste of time Michael...You are no different oJJ of SOT who loves hearing his own voice... "

"so are you one of those Vendors who will only answer when you are right... "

"good bye... keep selling the dream to poor people as this is just as what people said... "

You came believing I "love the sound of my own voice", and was "selling the dream to poor people". You left believing the same thing.

I answered EVERY one of your questions, and explained EVERY signal of the charts.

You, unfortunately, were one of those customers that forgets there were 86 PEOPLE in the room, also asking questions. You reacted like a small child, or a teenage girl when you didn't have a private - in -real- time conversation with me so you could place live trades (possibly). Rather than act responsibly - and respectfully - which I did to all 86 people - you did something else.

Traders that come in with your bad-attitude-heart problem always pull what I call a "BONZAI!!!!!". You come in the room, throw 82 questions at me in 15 minutes, expect an answer right away, and then hurl several personal insults at me before you storm out of the room BONZAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!! It happens about twice a month - and is always fascinating that when you do it, you expect the person you insulted personally to act like Mother Theresa and say, "oohhh, Saten....you're so right. Now now, here's some cookies....let's put a warm blanket on you and read Mark Douglas together....ok?"

I asked that you behave like a human being, in a room full of other human beings - all trying to learn and figure things out. I told you I would review everything - and tell you what was happening in real time - and that at the END of the webinar, we'd go through each signal to make sure EVERYONE understood what happened at each one.

I've attached the chart for the Crude Futures signals that appeared during this episode so that people can see what you were referring to - as you painted a picture where nothing worked. People can judge for themselves what happened.

FINALLY - I spoke with my partner. He said that if I wanted, I could give you a free lifetime copy of the software ($2,495) if you wanted it, with the understanding that you wouldn't take it - and if you did, you probably wouldn't attend any of the classes to actually learn how to use it. I told him you wouldn't - but there's the offer, nonetheless.

I am not a monster. I'm a human being - a guy with 3 kids, and a wife. You guys all think I'm sitting somewhere in West Palm drinking Whiskey Sours on the beach with my blonde trophy girlfriend. I would LOVE to see Saten run a live GoToMeeting with 86 people screaming questions at him and see how nicely he reacts when someone like him shouts "YOU'RE A PIECE OF S**T HAVE A NICE DAY A**HOLE", and then leaves the room before you can react.

Let me know if you want the software - everything I have for free - every tool I've made is yours. I don't think you'll take me up on it, and if you do, I'm pretty sure you won't try to learn. I think you want a black box system and a guy from Texas telling you when to press the buy button so you don't have to take responsibility for learning something.

Your move, Saten.







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  #237 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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sharmas View Post
what an interesting an eventful session this was yesterday.

Michael loves his system and his own voice..He was barking and i mean it when I say barking at another member and was so condescending in his manner.

I asked him a question and he answered as wasn't sure if his signals meant going Long or Short...After that another signal did not workout so i asked him for clarification.

Michael the great did not respond to my questions ( as the signal went against his call) I stayed in the room for another 30 minutes and asked him few times.

Before leaving the room due to frustration said that he is yet another vendor who will only respond when he is right or market works out.....No response and left the room...

He than followed up with a not so pleasant email...What a hero....he had the opportunity to respond in the room but choose not to...

Well yet another Vendor who is promoted @NinjaTrader on regular basis shows the true colors...

Enough already, based on what the vendor has posted about your behavior in the room, it seems clear to me you are obsessed with this.

Stop posting or risk being banned for rude behavior.

This is not a defense of the vendor. This is a defense of the principles of this community.

Mike

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  #238 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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@Big Mike

There is always two side to a story...With the Log attached which Michael sent to me directly speaks the truth and no where did i shout or threw colorful language that Michael has accused me of...He has lied and i take this seriously that a person of Michael/s stature will go out and lie to this extend... The LOG is the truth ls

One is the truth which i have sent via the PM and one that Michael has written, which is a sheer lie.

There was no interaction and FACT....in Webinars only the presenter has the control... and i left the room when there was no response and attached is the log which Michael himself sent me.

I wasn't rude to him as i asked questions to understand and when the signal worked out he answered me straight away.... But then for 30 minutes he ignored all my questions... .But from the email i sent you via PM CLEARLY shows he was happy to have a go at me in private domain rather than in his room

Nothing is lost Mike all good with me...Please there is always 2 sides to a story FACTS versus Lies....

HONESTY is something that is hard to get and Michael has showed it here that ....There was not a SINGLE discussion IN ROOM with me and him and he did not offer me anything at all ....I urge if the so called 86 people can come an tell the truth... WHY does one has to lie ...Be honest and people will respect you for it...

I can send you all my email interactions with Michael after i left the room...WHY do any vendor including Michael send an email and demand one should respect him....
I have no reason to LIE or fight with this Vendor as the truth is known by many ...


As i said....The truth and the lies and now one can decide which side they want to believe.... And i am happy to send all my emails to show the truth behind this Michael...


Big Mike View Post
Enough already, based on what the vendor has posted about your behavior in the room, it seems clear to me you are obsessed with this.

Stop posting or risk being banned for rude behavior.

This is not a defense of the vendor. This is a defense of the principles of this community.

Mike


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  #239 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
I spoke with my partner. He said that if I wanted, I could give you a free lifetime copy of the software ($2,495) if you wanted it..........Let me know if you want the software - everything I have for free - every tool I've made is yours....

Wow. I hadn't heard of your company before but I had noticed this thread at the top of the forum page for the past few days and thought I would actually read it. If I come in to your chat room and insult you as you say happened can I have your software for free too?
If I was a happy customer of yours who had paid for your product and was trying to work things out in a polite and serious way I would be really pi**ed off.

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  #240 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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Hi Matthew,

I'm willing to, and do share everything I've learned and know about what I know Matthew. So much so that people who've come to the event who are great programmers (great like Cory and Gomi are in here, great) have gone back to their desks and written algorithms that approximate what I've created (which is awesome...it means I taught it well enough that someone else could replicate it). While we're not IO or BMT - we attempt to uphold the ideals and the high bar established here with as close to an open source community as I can achieve as a paid provider. As a general rule, people who want to learn will learn.

I'm glad you're in here Matt, and appreciate your comments. I'm a BMT member, and was a customer/trader long before we ever ended up doing this. I'm not perfect - but am progressing as an educator (there's no school for webinar presenting, btw...you learn as you go). Sometimes I get in the way of the message or lesson I'm trying to communicate despite my best intentions, amplified by the "online" phenomenon where people type things bravely they would never say to someone's face. It's hard to bat 1,000 when people and personalities and everyone's history gets intertwined. You do your best and try to learn from it, I guess.

Many times people are abusive, or contrarian for contrarian's sake because of how they were treated by the last educational provider, and project that onto the next person (I used to do to that, at least). I had one BMT member since this last guy's rant approach me civilly and respectfully - willing to take the software for free with the training and report back what he saw here - so we're going to work with him and happy to do so in a spirit of honest skepticism. If your'e up for that as well, I'll be happy to extend it to you with a lifetime license gift out of respect for what happens in these forums and for Mike who I believe to be one of the good guys. (again, PM me).

I appreciate this community, and thank you for your insights. Will try to learn from them going forward.

Have a great trading week everyone.

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  #241 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post

...So much so that people who've come to the event who are great programmers (great like Cory and Gomi are in here, great) have gone back to their desks and written algorithms that approximate what I've created.....



stop twisting the fact and mention my name, I wrote my indicator because I like the look of betteremini indicator as clearly stated in the link above and the logic is from Jack Hershey teaching and it has never changed since the day I wrote it (9/2009). Other programmers might add bell and whistle but the logic is still the same saying I re-wrote the logic because of you is so disingenuous. I demand a retraction of your statement or present concrete evidence that I re-wrote my indicator based on yours. You remind me of a certain other vendor saying gone for good but keep on coming back, Mike banned him eventually.

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  #242 (permalink)
 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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@Big Mike
THis is what you wrote ....Stop posting or risk being banned for rude behavior.

I demand a public apology from Michael an for him to come out and tell everyone as to why he lied and can this man be ever trusted in this Forum and does this community need someone who fabricates truth..

And based on the Log...(attached again ) where is that rude behaviour...This log was sent to me by Michael and the facts holds...Liars and dishonest people always leave a trail and he thought he was being the Superman by lying the way he has in here.

Mike, I need you to come back as you jumped to the conclusion based on what Michael wrote and now you have the absolute proof in form of the Log records.No where in that Log i shouted or even used bad language that Michael has accused me off.

Michael has totally twisted the truth to build his side of story and he sold it to you. No verbal communication takes place apart from the moderator who has full control.

There is something called Honesty...Credibility and fairness. I come to you to seek your guidance.

Just like you told me to stop this with the fear of being Banned....will you be fair now based on the full proof provided to you.

Michael has twisted the situation and has lied ..A complete and utter lie and there is a good name for people who lie.

@BTTFT Michael ... How can this man be trusted ..Micheal went on to write something that did not even take place...He LIED about what i said...The attached LOG is the truth and now everyone can see what a Liar and fabricator Michael is....And you want to trust this Michael with your hard earned money....

A man who is so confidently twist the truth to show how Mighty he is has no room in this Forum or community. And sold his story which has been bought so easily..

Here is what Michael wrote......and once again i attach the log ...Such a sad human being that he will lie to this extend ...
You come in the room, throw 82 questions at me in 15 minutes, expect an answer right away, and then hurl several personal insults at me before you storm out of the room BONZAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!

None of this happened and yet i am accussed by Michael of this huge intergrity issue....
I would LOVE to see Saten run a live GoToMeeting with 86 people screaming questions at him and see how nicely he reacts when someone like him shouts "YOU'RE A PIECE OF S**T HAVE A NICE DAY A**HOLE", and then leaves the room before you can react.

I know you made it very clear that....This is not a defense of the vendor. This is a defense of the principles of this community.

@Big Mike, my credibility and integrity is on line here....So which side you going to take to protect this community

Now you have the proof and in the Webinars the attendees do not have the chance to speak and in this case the only interaction that I had was via the logs

I need to see what you going to do Mike as the truth needs to be known

Saten

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 matthew28 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hi Matthew,

I'm willing to, and do share everything I've learned and know about what I know Matthew. So much so that people who've come to the event who are great programmers (great like Cory and Gomi are in here, great) have gone back to their desks and written algorithms that approximate what I've created (which is awesome...it means I taught it well enough that someone else could replicate it). While we're not IO or BMT - we attempt to uphold the ideals and the high bar established here with as close to an open source community as I can achieve as a paid provider. As a general rule, people who want to learn will learn.

I'm glad you're in here Matt, and appreciate your comments. I'm a BMT member, and was a customer/trader long before we ever ended up doing this. I'm not perfect - but am progressing as an educator (there's no school for webinar presenting, btw...you learn as you go). Sometimes I get in the way of the message or lesson I'm trying to communicate despite my best intentions, amplified by the "online" phenomenon where people type things bravely they would never say to someone's face. It's hard to bat 1,000 when people and personalities and everyone's history gets intertwined. You do your best and try to learn from it, I guess.

Many times people are abusive, or contrarian for contrarian's sake because of how they were treated by the last educational provider, and project that onto the next person (I used to do to that, at least). I had one BMT member since this last guy's rant approach me civilly and respectfully - willing to take the software for free with the training and report back what he saw here - so we're going to work with him and happy to do so in a spirit of honest skepticism. If your'e up for that as well, I'll be happy to extend it to you with a lifetime license gift out of respect for what happens in these forums and for Mike who I believe to be one of the good guys. (again, PM me).

I appreciate this community, and thank you for your insights. Will try to learn from them going forward.

Have a great trading week everyone.

Hello Michael,
Sorry for the late reply.
You may have misunderstood my original post. Rereading what I wrote perhaps I was a little too brief and unclear. When I skimmed through the thread my impression was surprise that you seemed to be rewarding someone that you alleged had been unprofessional and insulting to you, by giving them all your software for free. I was just commenting from a business perspective that that would likely encourage the sort of customers you may not want and annoy or upset the customers that you already have.
Thank you for the offer to test drive your software/product but I will decline as I am trying to stick with what I am doing and work that out for myself. But like I say, thanks again.
Matthew

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  #244 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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matthew28 View Post
Thank you for the offer to test drive your software/product but I will decline as I am trying to stick with what I am doing and work that out for myself. But like I say, thanks again.
Matthew

Smart idea.

(I don't know anything about the software and am not commenting on it. But I do know the dangers of changing your approach too much, having done it more than enough.... )

Bob.

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 SpyderTrader 
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Sharmas and BigMike remind me of an old married couple.
One is always threatening the other...and the other is always calling him out.
Like on 50 different threads on here.
Fantastic entertainment.

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  #246 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
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I just found myself going down the rabbit hole and reading this entire thread. Interesting.

Emmett Moore over at Trading Schools did a full review of BTTF trading. Trashed it basically.

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  #247 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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Hey Johnny - yeah, about Mr. Moore.

Emmett contacted me when I was leaving for a flight in an Airport to Portland. He told me that he was going to do a review on my product - and I asked him how he was going to do that without having the software?

I told him I would do 2 things for him.

First - I told him that I would give him a copy of the software for free to use and evaluate.

Second - I told him that I would send 5 customers to him that had the software for over a year. That he could ask them anything he wanted, see their trading performance - and get a "boots on the ground" assessment for his review.

We agreed that he would wait until I got back from my trip (I was visiting my brother in Oregon after not seeing him for 3 years)

That's when things went to s**t.

When I got back - he'd posted his "review".

He based his review on watching my sales webinar. (I s**t you not).

When I called him back, he said that he would "be happy to change his 'review' " if I would send him an audited statement of my personal trading record. When I asked him about everything we had discussed in the airport (giving him a copy of the software to train him on, and having him talk to the customers) he said "he didn't recall" that conversation (I recorded him saying this to me during the call....you can judge for yourself when he says this if he's lying).

5 of my customers contacted him. They all said the same thing. "Mr. Moore wasn't interested in anything we had to say".

When my customers tried to post a review underneath in the comment section, one of 2 things happened. They either couldn't post their comment altogether, or they couldn't post higher than 1 star (all 5 had the same experience).

What we were able to find out was this Johnny.

Mr. Moore has a deal where he does exactly what we just described. He essentially "extorts" you and tells you he's going to leave a 1 star review online unless you are able to send him your personal trading records. When he sees your personal trading records - he approaches you with an "offer" to "promote" your service. If you agree - he tells people that your software which normally costs "x" costs "x+1000$", and gets a kickback for every customer he sends to your "successful" website. (see how that works?). Unless you play Mr. Moore's game - you're shamed in public with an eternal "review" of something he never reviewed.

Mr. Moore actually made "defamatory" statements about us in his review (that's when you say something like, "I'm pretty sure my neighbor's a whore...she dresses trashy", and post it online). I had our attorney go through it, and he couldn't believe the things Mr. Moore wrote. Our attorney contacted Mr. Moore's attorney who conceded that Moore went way over the line in his "review" and had him go back and edit the review.

We were told that the customer's ability to post more than 1 star was a "glitch" that had been "fixed".

We were told that they didn't know why people couldn't post a review at all, and that the "glitch" had been "fixed".

My offer to give Mr. Moore the actual software was rejected - and we were told Mr. Moore doesn't trade and wouldn't use the software. As of today - he hasn't opened the code once on his machine, or spoken with a single customer about their experiences with it, which begs the question, "what did he review"?

Johnny, I have people on IO that are "reviewing" the product for us now (I gave them free copies to work with). If you'd like to be part of that process, please contact me via email and I'd be in your debt. In the spirit of BMT and helping traders in this and other communities, we need to start filtering out guys like this who benefit financially from manipulating the traders in the community for financial gain. Let me know - and thanks for the heads up.

Michael

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  #248 (permalink)
 SawDr 
Washington, DC
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
Hey Johnny - yeah, about Mr. Moore.


When I called him back, he said that he would "be happy to change his 'review' " if I would send him an audited statement of my personal trading record.
Michael

So did you send him the statements from your personal trading record?

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  #249 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
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No - I only work with people that I trust. I don't trust Mr. Moore.

On every occasion and at every opportunity we were lied to, misled, and treated like vermin. I explained to Mr. Moore that my personal trading record (we trade our own funds using our own systems derived from the software) wasn't proof positive that the method works - as he couldn't verify if I was actually using my system as outlined in the reviews.

I sent 5 customers to him who were willing to provide their account results. As this doesn't tie in with his business model (he can't get a percentage of a sale that was already made), these customers were ignored. Ultimately Johnny, we teach (as is taught here at BMT/IO) that trading is a personal journey - and no 2 customers use the software the same way. By referring customers to him, I wanted the community at TS.org to see what their experiences as an end user would be as opposed to someone like me who sees the signals day in and day out for 7 years. This was rejected.

We've been told just now that our customers would be allowed to post their results on the page. As of now (3 hours later) those posts haven't been approved......We'll see.

Thanks for your interest and involvement John. If you want to connect off forum, let me know.

M

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  #250 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
Montreal, Quebec
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
No - I only work with people that I trust. I don't trust Mr. Moore.

On every occasion and at every opportunity we were lied to, misled, and treated like vermin. I explained to Mr. Moore that my personal trading record (we trade our own funds using our own systems derived from the software) wasn't proof positive that the method works - as he couldn't verify if I was actually using my system as outlined in the reviews.

I sent 5 customers to him who were willing to provide their account results. As this doesn't tie in with his business model (he can't get a percentage of a sale that was already made), these customers were ignored. Ultimately Johnny, we teach (as is taught here at BMT/IO) that trading is a personal journey - and no 2 customers use the software the same way. By referring customers to him, I wanted the community at TS.org to see what their experiences as an end user would be as opposed to someone like me who sees the signals day in and day out for 7 years. This was rejected.

We've been told just now that our customers would be allowed to post their results on the page. As of now (3 hours later) those posts haven't been approved......We'll see.

Thanks for your interest and involvement John. If you want to connect off forum, let me know.

M

Regardless of what was said, how it was said, how it was interpreted, trust issues or no trust issues. All I read is Emmett wanting you to prove that you traded your software on a real account making real money. That can only be via redacted trading statements that can be linked back to real trade signals that your indicators foretold the user to take.

I don't think it gets any simpler than that. It's like you verbally telling the tax man you have paid your taxes, only for the tax man to say you haven't. So you prove it with a copy of your verified tax return.

Upload your statements to Dropbox and provide a public link and then all this goes away and Emmett will probably give you a 5 star review. Random Joe Blow making a comment on Emmett's thread saying how great the indicators are means nothing.

Proving with hard evidence means more business for you, more income. Winner, winner.

Please don't promote yourself here by linking to the statements as it would violate the forum rules, but there are a number of ways for you to validate yourself outside of this forum.

So don't dance around with a response here. My question is, are you going to provide proof (outside of this forum) with trading statements (not an Excel spreadsheet) - your real broker statements - that can be matched to your software signals?

Put them in Dropbox and provide a public link on Emmett's blog. If you do that, boom, all this bad feeling I see out there goes away. A very, very simple fix.

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  #251 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
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JonnyBoy View Post
Regardless of what was said, how it was said, how it was interpreted, trust issues or no trust issues. All I read is Emmett wanting you to prove that you traded your software on a real account making real money. That can only be via redacted trading statements that can be linked back to real trade signals that your indicators foretold the user to take.

I don't think it gets any simpler than that. It's like you verbally telling the tax man you have paid your taxes, only for the tax man to say you haven't. So you prove it with a copy of your verified tax return.

Upload your statements to Dropbox and provide a public link and then all this goes away and Emmett will probably give you a 5 star review. Random Joe Blow making a comment on Emmett's thread saying how great the indicators are means nothing.

Proving with hard evidence means more business for you, more income. Winner, winner.

Please don't promote yourself here by linking to the statements as it would violate the forum rules, but there are a number of ways for you to validate yourself outside of this forum.

So don't dance around with a response here. My question is, are you going to provide proof (outside of this forum) with trading statements (not an Excel spreadsheet) - your real broker statements - that can be matched to your software signals?

Put them in Dropbox and provide a public link on Emmett's blog. If you do that, boom, all this bad feeling I see out there goes away. A very, very simple fix.


I don't think they have to prove anything here. They market a product. They publish their phone number. If you are considering the product, call them, ask every question and ask for every shred of detail you need in order to make your purchasing decision. If you get it, great - buy the product. If you don't get it, don't buy the product. Asking a vendor to come here and prove something will likely lead nowhere due to the fact that almost anything (including posting brokerage statements) would be considered marketing and thus a violation of forum policies. At least that's the way I understand it. Good luck.

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  #252 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
Montreal, Quebec
 
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timefreedom View Post
I don't think they have to prove anything here. They market a product. They publish their phone number. If you are considering the product, call them, ask every question and ask for every shred of detail you need in order to make your purchasing decision. If you get it, great - buy the product. If you don't get it, don't buy the product. Asking a vendor to come here and prove something will likely lead nowhere due to the fact that almost anything (including posting brokerage statements) would be considered marketing and thus a violation of forum policies. At least that's the way I understand it. Good luck.

Does it sound like I am interested in this product from my writing? Not in a million years. I am just saying that with a very simple fix, all this goes away.

I stated that they should do all of this outside of this forum, which was clearly written in my post.

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 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
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JonnyBoy View Post
Does it sound like I am interested in this product from my writing? Not in a million years. I am just saying that with a very simple fix, all this goes away.

I stated that they should do all of this outside of this forum, which was clearly written in my post.

No, it didn't sound like you were interested in the product. It sounded like you were provoking someone to "prove" that what they are marketing is valid. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you are goading them to prove their worth to someone who makes their living writing online reviews of trading products, which is the way I actually understood your post to read, then it's even worse. They don't owe you that - at all. They would be better off proving (or trying to prove) their worth to their customers or potential customers.

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 siroko69 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: gold 6E
 
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hi guys, I have purchased this product and it is useful to some degree,
however they have no customer support I was locked out of the members area
so I sent them an email to unlock it but I have had no response. The unlocking system
does not send you an email so you cannot unlock to get in to the members area.
over all communication was good when you are paying after that buyer beware!!!!
the only good that came out of it is I went back and studied a lot more now I trade on a blank
chart no flux for me!!!

siroko69

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 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
No - I only work with people that I trust. I don't trust Mr. Moore.

On every occasion and at every opportunity we were lied to, misled, and treated like vermin. I explained to Mr. Moore that my personal trading record (we trade our own funds using our own systems derived from the software) wasn't proof positive that the method works - as he couldn't verify if I was actually using my system as outlined in the reviews.

I sent 5 customers to him who were willing to provide their account results. As this doesn't tie in with his business model (he can't get a percentage of a sale that was already made), these customers were ignored. Ultimately Johnny, we teach (as is taught here at BMT/IO) that trading is a personal journey - and no 2 customers use the software the same way. By referring customers to him, I wanted the community at TS.org to see what their experiences as an end user would be as opposed to someone like me who sees the signals day in and day out for 7 years. This was rejected.

We've been told just now that our customers would be allowed to post their results on the page. As of now (3 hours later) those posts haven't been approved......We'll see.

Thanks for your interest and involvement John. If you want to connect off forum, let me know.

M

ALL posts were approved as far as I can see. I guess mr moore is not always at his desk and sometimes it might take a few hours for him to review posts.
Did you send your statements showing your trading? He has promised to rewrite the review if you do. If would surely attract many customers if your had a proven trading record.

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 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
Montreal, Quebec
 
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Forexoil View Post
ALL posts were approved as far as I can see. I guess mr moore is not always at his desk and sometimes it might take a few hours for him to review posts.
Did you send your statements showing your trading? He has promised to rewrite the review if you do. If would surely attract many customers if your had a proven trading record.

I think the silence over these last months is proof enough, is it not?

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 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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JonnyBoy View Post
I think the silence over these last months is proof enough, is it not?

The following things were offered to Mr. Moore:

A. You can interview anyone of 10 actual customers who stepped forward to share their actual live trading results with him. Why customers?, you ask. Because there's no way to verify whether or not the system my corporation is trading, is the system I'm teaching to my customer. For example (think this thru, it's so important everyone open up their minds here and not fall for Emmett (don't ever call him Mr. Moore, he doesn't deserve that respect) and his little game. It's a fairly obvious thing to do, wouldn't you think?

Here are 10 people that bought the system - who are not vendors - who want to share their results with you. Just call these 10 numbers and speak to them. Look at their results, and interview them for your article.

No response. Ever. No interest whatsoever. Why?

B. You can take the software for free - I'll give you the rules based trading system we teach our customers - and you can trade it in sim or live or whatever by yourself. Post the results at the end of the month, end of a few months, whatever. We'll train you and give you our best stuff for free.

No response. Ever. No interest whatsoever. Why?


I'm going to say this again for everyone in case they forgot.....Mr. Moore doesn't trade the system he is reviewing, or in any of the conversations I've had with him said he trades. I've asked.

Here's the business model some people online have alleged ( I can't confirm this as I didn't get that far with him / wouldn't play the game)

a. "Review" someone
b. "request" a trading record
c. If the trading record is good (no one knows "what" was traded in the record after all) offer to promote the product
d. Get an "affiliate commission".
e. Make every vendor who doesn't play the game a pariah, pushing people to the "affiliate sales" companies.


Think this through for yourself right now....if Mr. Moore has access to 5 star trading systems, has fully "vetted" them for the public, where's HIS trading record? If he has access to the absolute best this industry has to offer, and has proof beyond all doubt it works - where are HIS trades? It would seem like a 'no-brainer', right?

There are a few links you guys can check out before you jump on this pile:

A Review of Emmett Moore | Trading Schools.Info

Emmett Moore - Global Trade Room

https://www.emini-maven.com/wordpress/2015/08/emmett-moore-proof-positive-that-a-leopard-cant-change-its-stripes/

Now ask yourself - if other people had these experiences with and doubts about this individual with these types of accusations - would you give him your personal financial information? Would you give someone accused of SEC fraud any of your information?

Think for yourselves guys - use your heads. BMT / IO is a great place for everyone to learn. But there's a right way to do it. I don't mind taking my lumps in here, but please don't hold me to this guy's standard. It's just not something I'll do.

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  #258 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
Montreal, Quebec
 
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I will remove myself from this thread.

Some posts I made a while back were removed and in hindsight rightly so. My aim was to get some honest accountability provided from the vendor, but my angle was probably offside.

For all the traders whom stumble across this thread or any other thread for that matter with reference to a vendor, be diligent and do your homework.

As part of your vetting process you should verify any vendor's claims. Requesting vendor's redacted trading statements is perfectly reasonable for a system you are looking to purchase. There is no CFTC ruling or law that states a vendor cannot supply this. All personal information can be redacted.

If the vendor cannot supply or won't supply, then they lose your business. If they don't trade their own system then start asking more questions. If they refer you to testimonials of other "satisfied" traders, you will never know how independent these "satisfied" traders really are. So stay frosty every step of the way.

If @Big Mike feels the need to remove this post, then sobeit. I will now bow out of this thread, but in the future I hope to see some real reviews by real traders of this system.

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  #259 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
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JonnyBoy View Post
I will remove myself from this thread.

Some posts I made a while back were removed and in hindsight rightly so. My aim was to get some honest accountability provided from the vendor, but my angle was probably offside.

For all the traders whom stumble across this thread or any other thread for that matter with reference to a vendor, be diligent and do your homework.

As part of your vetting process you should verify any vendor's claims. Requesting vendor's redacted trading statements is perfectly reasonable for a system you are looking to purchase. There is no CFTC ruling or law that states a vendor cannot supply this. All personal information can be redacted.

If the vendor cannot supply or won't supply, then they lose your business. If they don't trade their own system then start asking more questions. If they refer you to testimonials of other "satisfied" traders, you will never know how independent these "satisfied" traders really are. So stay frosty every step of the way.

If @Big Mike feels the need to remove this post, then sobeit. I will now bow out of this thread, but in the future I hope to see some real reviews by real traders of this system.

My understanding is that Flux is a tool to use rather than a system to trade. If I'm incorrect, then my apologies. But if it's a tool then it would be the users proficiency using the tool that counts. Most folks probably didn't ask @NinjaTrader or @sierra Chart or @gomi or @Fat Tails or @bookMap, etc. for redacted trading statements before trying their products. TaylorMade says my new driver will add 10 yards to my drives. I don't give a darn if someone at TaylorMade can hit this driver 10 yards farther. What I care about is how it can improve my game.

That said, I totally agree with your suggestion to "stay frosty" when evaluating any vendor trading claims.

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 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
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i own jigsaw bookmap and ninja but those other tools dont make claims like this on their websites:

We find recurrring patters humans cant see" " predictions play out in the market with unbelivable accuracy"
"knowing the past you can tell the future"
"prove to youself that histrory does repeat"

yet No evidence if the vendor trades. not even backtested results demonstrating empirically.

check out this thread

BackToTheFutureTrading.com flux capacitor | Forex Peace Army - Your Forex Trading Forum
you will notice around Mid june 2014 a rush of extremely positive reviews. amazing timing.
the owner himself states, and this is 2 years ago that he has sold 1500 roughly: arent you slghtly curioius whether he trades using this tool that predicts the future with amazing accuracy?

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  #261 (permalink)
 Cristian 
Bucharest - Romania
 
Experience: None
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I do not have a clue about Flux Capacitor or emini maven but I do know very well Globaltraderoom because I was in their trading room last year for many days.
In my opinion, at least at that time, this was a total joke. For what was offering at that time even a penny was too expensive.
After a while this room was reviewed by Emmett Moore. If you want to find out how the subscriber were scammed read the replays of this thread :
Global Trade Room - Trading Schools.Org

IMHO if someone wants to buy smth he should ask the proof the provider can make money with his system/facilitation indicator. Many can not bring any proof but very few can. It is hard to find those that can because they are not promoted and you will not find them in the first pages on Google search.



BTTFT Michael View Post
The following things were offered to Mr. Moore:

A. You can interview anyone of 10 actual customers who stepped forward to share their actual live trading results with him. Why customers?, you ask. Because there's no way to verify whether or not the system my corporation is trading, is the system I'm teaching to my customer. For example (think this thru, it's so important everyone open up their minds here and not fall for Emmett (don't ever call him Mr. Moore, he doesn't deserve that respect) and his little game. It's a fairly obvious thing to do, wouldn't you think?

Here are 10 people that bought the system - who are not vendors - who want to share their results with you. Just call these 10 numbers and speak to them. Look at their results, and interview them for your article.

No response. Ever. No interest whatsoever. Why?

B. You can take the software for free - I'll give you the rules based trading system we teach our customers - and you can trade it in sim or live or whatever by yourself. Post the results at the end of the month, end of a few months, whatever. We'll train you and give you our best stuff for free.

No response. Ever. No interest whatsoever. Why?


I'm going to say this again for everyone in case they forgot.....Mr. Moore doesn't trade the system he is reviewing, or in any of the conversations I've had with him said he trades. I've asked.

Here's the business model some people online have alleged ( I can't confirm this as I didn't get that far with him / wouldn't play the game)

a. "Review" someone
b. "request" a trading record
c. If the trading record is good (no one knows "what" was traded in the record after all) offer to promote the product
d. Get an "affiliate commission".
e. Make every vendor who doesn't play the game a pariah, pushing people to the "affiliate sales" companies.


Think this through for yourself right now....if Mr. Moore has access to 5 star trading systems, has fully "vetted" them for the public, where's HIS trading record? If he has access to the absolute best this industry has to offer, and has proof beyond all doubt it works - where are HIS trades? It would seem like a 'no-brainer', right?

There are a few links you guys can check out before you jump on this pile:

A Review of Emmett Moore | Trading Schools.Info

Emmett Moore - Global Trade Room

Emmett Moore: Proof Positive that a Leopard Can?t Change it?s Spots - The Fractal Futures Trader

Now ask yourself - if other people had these experiences with and doubts about this individual with these types of accusations - would you give him your personal financial information? Would you give someone accused of SEC fraud any of your information?

Think for yourselves guys - use your heads. BMT / IO is a great place for everyone to learn. But there's a right way to do it. I don't mind taking my lumps in here, but please don't hold me to this guy's standard. It's just not something I'll do.


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 LucentTrader 
Los Angeles
 
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I have purchased and used the Flux Investor package and the Flux Matrix. These indicators are worthwhile and useful. The gains are surprising as most indicators do not live up to the purported results.

I have moved to NinjaTrader version 8. Unfortunately Back to the Future has not upgraded their indicators. Consequently they are useless to me.

For anyone remaining on version 7 for a few months and interested in the flux system I am selling the Flux package and Matrix add on. The license is transferable.

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  #263 (permalink)
 dk27 
Europe
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I have NT7 indicators that are very useful, I would say at the core of what I am doing and no way I make comlete move to NT8 until they are available there. Just saying😀😀

By the way, you can run both 7 and 8 in parallel, but you know that already I believe.

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  #264 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
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sent us 3000 trust us ..this is huge ..we can pinpoint market turns in advance, we have master time its self. lola this is as real as the move or the car for time travel. ask them for a free trail for 30 days and wait for the b.s. story ...why not..they are traders first...no way we have time for that and or you will need our support for moths to unlock time travel that is what you are paying for. i though i seen it all but this guy takes the cake

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  #265 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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LucentTrader View Post
I have purchased and used the Flux Investor package and the Flux Matrix. These indicators are worthwhile and useful. The gains are surprising as most indicators do not live up to the purported results.

I have moved to NinjaTrader version 8. Unfortunately Back to the Future has not upgraded their indicators. Consequently they are useless to me.

For anyone remaining on version 7 for a few months and interested in the flux system I am selling the Flux package and Matrix add on. The license is transferable.

lola....lola... hee-ha sure thing ,,,conformation from a user ...there not worth a damn,,do not feel bad i have 10,000 to 20,000 of b.s a would sell too

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 LucentTrader 
Los Angeles
 
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Forgiven: 2 posts in 2 days. Seems you have an agenda in addition to being opinionated. If I have learned one thing negativity results in poor returns and a diminished quality of life.

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  #267 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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ok may be i have been a little harsh on this vendor, so lets be fair ..if there are any users of this software and training that were green in 30 days and now live in Saint Kits please share with us the wonderful thrill ride.

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  #268 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, MetaTrader
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Posts: 49 since Mar 2010
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The Ninja 8 version will be rolling out this month. Contact us for an advanced copy if you need one.




LucentTrader View Post
I have purchased and used the Flux Investor package and the Flux Matrix. These indicators are worthwhile and useful. The gains are surprising as most indicators do not live up to the purported results.

I have moved to NinjaTrader version 8. Unfortunately Back to the Future has not upgraded their indicators. Consequently they are useless to me.

For anyone remaining on version 7 for a few months and interested in the flux system I am selling the Flux package and Matrix add on. The license is transferable.


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  #269 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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One of the great things about time cycles, is that every day is a "Trial". Once time cycles are identified, someone doing the research can project that information into the future and verify for themselves if the cycles were accurately identified, or not. I think that traditionally, people who are studying left-looking technical indicators are bound to that "30 day trial" mentality because of all the games the other developers play with signals disappearing/reappearing/repainting/painting bars afterwards. No?




forgiven View Post
sent us 3000 trust us ..this is huge ..we can pinpoint market turns in advance, we have master time its self. lola this is as real as the move or the car for time travel. ask them for a free trail for 30 days and wait for the b.s. story ...why not..they are traders first...no way we have time for that and or you will need our support for moths to unlock time travel that is what you are paying for. i though i seen it all but this guy takes the cake


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  #270 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
One of the great things about time cycles, is that every day is a "Trial". Once time cycles are identified, someone doing the research can project that information into the future and verify for themselves if the cycles were accurately identified, or not. I think that traditionally, people who are studying left-looking technical indicators are bound to that "30 day trial" mentality because of all the games the other developers play with signals disappearing/reappearing/repainting/painting bars afterwards. No?

if you buy any trading software with out a free trail.

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  #271 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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BTTFT Michael View Post
One of the great things about time cycles, is that every day is a "Trial". Once time cycles are identified, someone doing the research can project that information into the future and verify for themselves if the cycles were accurately identified, or not. I think that traditionally, people who are studying left-looking technical indicators are bound to that "30 day trial" mentality because of all the games the other developers play with signals disappearing/reappearing/repainting/painting bars afterwards. No?

in the morning RTH around 10 a.m. est and 10:30 a.m. est are time cycles where the market turns 60% of the time. go ahead and send me 3000 grad if you want to.

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  #272 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
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forgiven View Post
in the morning RTH around 10 a.m. est and 10:30 a.m. est are time cycles where the market turns 60% of the time. go ahead and send me 3000 grad if you want to.

Thanks, Forgiven. After speaking with Mike about comments like this - I've been asked to remain positive, and constructive...and add value to the community's members wherever possible. To avoid being cynical and toxic....building, and uplifting instead. In the spirit of Mike's request, I thank you for your comment.

I am constrained (willingly having accepted those constraints) to posts which are not self-promoting. As such, keep in mind the following:

"in the morning RTH around 10 a.m. est and 10:30 a.m. est are time cycles where the market turns 60% of the time."

This statement leaves some questions - ie, what are the entry and exit criteria? Are you suggesting people enter at candle close on a 1 minute CL chart for example at 10am? What kind of stop? Target? The ATR of CL this morning (one of the more popular futures markets) is around 15 ticks every minute. So when you say "around" 10am and "around" 10:30 - if you're off 2-3 bars (assuming you're close) that requires a stop of 30-45 ticks per contract...far too large of a risk for most newer traders with a small account.

It begs the question - are there methods at people's disposal that can distill the time down to a specific minute bar?

Todd Mitchell taught a course that outlined similar times, I paid $1,500 for it back in the day. It "taught" something similar, to the effect of "look for the market to reverse directions around 2:30, unless it doesn't - in which case it will continue trending until the close". Other traders I met confessed it was very ambiguous and had that "can never be wrong" element of marketing to it.

I fear statements like "turns around 10 o'clock and 10:30" potentially bear the same hallmarks of that statement - being broad enough that a turn within 10 minutes of that time could be claimed as a "success". It's hard to build a trading plan around something generalized like that, I find. I can't comment on the technique I teach in here, but if you'd like to ping me in a PM, I can suggest some techniques to you (very simple, very manual) that you can use to narrow down your window.

Much respect - Michael

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  #273 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
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Posts: 668 since Mar 2012
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be for buying check out there reviews at tradeschool.org and other places . the reviews of there work and the owner are not hard to find. if you like what you see by all means go for it.

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  #274 (permalink)
 OpalDragon 
Des Moines, Iowa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: 6E, CL, Anything that moves
 
Posts: 488 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 647 given, 192 received

NEW REVIEW ---->
~~Not a continuation of the previous DRAMA~~

I TESTED THIS SYSTEM SOME YEARS AGO and..I bow my head in Shame and I have to admit >>> that I actually bought this piece of crap Random Dot Trading Indicator.

Well actually I just "leased" it from this Michael Guy for the better part of a year and tested the shit out of it and saw that it is basically TOTAL AND COMPLETE GARBAGE.

A HISTORY OF THIS "INDICATOR/GARBAGE"

It was actually created, coded and fully written by BEN -- the programmer from the site/store Affordable Indicators ? NinjaTrader Programming

Ben is an EXCELLENT EXCELLENT PROGRAMMER -- very very professional and diligent.

He had an idea one day to just take the MACD and run it on a chart >>>>
Then --- AVERAGE OUT every MONDAY and see when EACH OF THE THOSE LITTLE TURNS IN MACD HAPPEN THRU OUT LIKE 20 CONSECUTIVE MONDAYS

Then --- spit out a "dot" WHERE THOSE AVERAGES OF THOSE LITTLE LITTLE TURNS ON THE MACD HAPPENED

CAN YOU ALREADY SEE HOW HORRENDOUSLY RANDOM THAT WOULD bleepin' BE???

Well if you can't -- just simply try out the "software" and see that it is ultra ultra random.

Well BEN had another idea >>>> to also make it AVERAGE OUT THE "TURNS" OF THE ZIGZAG INDICATOR

Then --- AVERAGE THAT OUT --- then spit out times and dots.

That garbage was also pretty damn random >>>> but because the ZIG ZAG indicator is less NOISY it at least made less signals and the signals were a tiny bit less random.

Anyway >>> BEN PROGRAMMED THIS THING MOSTLY FOR FUN and FOR THE CHALLENGE.

He didn't really like it, or even thought much of it and he DEFINITELY didn't use it....

BUT THEN CAME THIS GUY CALLED MICHAEL ( and apparently is very very impressed by shiny objects ) and he thought it was cool... and he bought it and could just CHANGE THE NAME and MARKET THE SHIT out of it.

He bought the license from BEN and then started selling it on his website.

I CAN TELL YOU WITH 100% CERTAINTY that this MICHEAL GUY DOES NOT TRADE THIS THING.

ACTUALLY >>> IT IS EVEN WORSE >> HE DOESN'T TRADE AT ALL.

At least when I tried this "software".

He couldn't trade ANYTHING YET THIS GUY WAS TRYING TO SELL THE FLUX CAPACITOR THING TO ME.

I COULD TELL HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO TRADE ONCE YOU FINALLY GET HIM ON SCREEN. He had no skill or experience. NONE.

WOULD YOU HAVE SURGERY from a DOCTOR that HAS NEVER TOUCHED A BODY BEFORE.

Would you buy a race car from someone that never races at all or is a garbage garbage driver.

Would you buy hunting rifles from a useless ultra lefty liberal that hates all guns and wants to ban them ( college SJW girl ).

Well that is what this Michael guy is.

But I didn't recognize that until I agreed to do a 'lease' and I sent him a payment or two for this garbage.

It will plot basically random dots all over your chart with ZERO statistical edge.

He was a very very weak trader with NO understanding of statistics and can't analyze the expectancy of his system.

He will just ~~~LOOK~~~ at a chart and then say .... "Wowserss... look -- it totally works."

Well the mind and brain of retards will ignore the random bullcrap dots and will also ignore the completely wrong dots and will then sort of self confirm the few few few dots .... that were close to a turn. Then his brain just says --- look this garbage totally works guys!

If it worked soooooo awesome >>>> then why the F did Ben from Affordableindicators.com sell it to the Michael guy?

If it worked soooooo awesome ---- then Ben would have made it better and sold it himself.

Anyway --- I also worked to try and make this garbage work.

THE FEW POSITIVE REVIEWS THAT YOU SEE OF THIS PROGRAM are ALL FROM ULTRA ULTRA INEXPERIENCED TRADERS.

Actually they are completely NON-TRADERS and they also FALL FOR THE SAME CONFIRMATION BIAS AND PLACEBO EFFECT THAT MICHEAL FELL FOR.

AFTER YOU FALL FOR THE PLACEBO/ CONFIRMATION BIAS ---- your brain will think that you have a actual winning system and then if you trade it ---- you will get EVISCERATED.

It SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK. End of story.

Not without AN ACTUAL REAL SYSTEM OR TRADING STRATEGY and if you have an actual system --- then you don't need this.

Also the Michael guy lives in an EXTREMELY EXTREMELY SMALL TOWN in the U.S. where he said that he prides himself that his "town" "only has ONE traffic light" according to him. Which tells you everything you need to know. He is/was not making any money from trading his indicator and had to move to an ultra ultra small town with ultra ultra low house expenses so he could just SELL ONE of these indicator packages and be able to sort of pay his bills.

This program is garbage and this Michael guy is pure sleaze. I am glad I cancelled that "lease" as soon as I did.

We need to stop giving garbage systems any kind of money.

SO IN CONCLUSION:
If you want to buy a piece of crap >>>> with very very good marketing ( yes I will give them that... the marketing is the only thing that is good ) that produces dots all over your chart with NO EDGE what so ever... from a guy with NO trading skill or knowledge what so ever and no knowledge of statistics what so ever then yea.. go for it.

I am sure it will be good. If I can at least warn ONE PERSON about it --- then I will have done my job.

THERE ARE REAL THINGS THAT WORK:
Basically Market Profile levels and then Order Flow reading at those levels

Just basic Market Profile levels -- like volume nodes and poor highs and lows --- then just confirm those levels with some Order flow of some kind.

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  #275 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, MetaTrader
Broker: Mirus/Kinetick
Trading: Futures, Oil, Gold, NQ
 
Posts: 49 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 65 received

Thank you for most recent comments. Forum rules prevent me from responding in any material way, as they would be interpreted as Mike as "self promotion".

I can only say that nearly every line of your post is laden with misinformation, and in any other context would be considered slander and/or libel. Forum rules, again - prevent me from responding to any of them, as such a response has historically been taken down for "self-promotion". (it's tiring).

I am a degreed Mechanical engineer with over 5 design patents. Father to 3 amazing and beautiful children. Husband to a woman I don't deserve. Assistant scoutmaster to 15 kids I've watched grow up in front of me...a former Eagle Scout and lifetime NESA member. I build a pretty good pinewood derby car (last year we won 2nd place in the county).

I live in East Bend, NC - because after the day before 9/11, my father died from congestive heart failure having been denied a heart transplant from a lifetime of taking Lipitor to function. My mother died 6 months later from lung cancer - refusing any treatment at the time because she loved my father so much she really didn't want to live without him. They were 58 years old.

I moved my family from NY to NC to be far away from planes flying into buildings and subway bombers. And to start fresh, far away from some pretty painful memories and some horrible people.


That said, I regret you had the experience you did. I don't even know where to begin to help you - but I'm willing to try.

If you'd like to contact me directly regarding your experience, we'd like to help you. Please call (336) 703-7667 at your earliest convenience. I'm happy to respond to you in a healthy, constructive and informative way. I can see from your bio you're in Pittsburgh. If you want, there's an active customer not too far from you that would probably help you as well if you were open to it.

I hope you have a great, drama free day.

Michael

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  #276 (permalink)
 OpalDragon 
Des Moines, Iowa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: 6E, CL, Anything that moves
 
Posts: 488 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 647 given, 192 received


BTTFT Michael View Post
Thank you for most recent comments. Forum rules prevent me from responding in any material way, as they would be interpreted as Mike as "self promotion".

Highly doubtful -- that that is the reason. Big Mike is very very fair in this site.


BTTFT Michael View Post
I can only say that nearly every line of your post is laden with misinformation, and in any other context would be considered slander and/or libel. Forum rules, again - prevent me from responding to any of them, as such a response has historically been taken down for "self-promotion". (it's tiring).

Again highly doubtful. Big Mike is very very fair in this site since even AMP tried to sue him...which was not cool. Now he is ultra ultra strict about following all rules and protocols. Which is great and if HE ( BIG MIKE ) tells me to edit or remove that post in anyway to comply fully with laws I MOST DEFINITELY WILL. But as it stands it is my FREE SPEECH and ( TWO ) it was my experience of having used the product a few years ago. SO REALLY THE ONLY THING YOU CAN SAY IS THAT IT IS MY EXPERIENCE OF THE SOFTWARE FROM A FEW YEARS AGO AND MAYBE YOU HAVE UPDATED IT SO SO MUCH THAT IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. BUT I have seen your more recent videos and your software looks exactly the same.



BTTFT Michael View Post
I am a degreed Mechanical engineer with over 5 design patents.

Ok -- that is great. Design IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING has nothing to do with STATISTICS, EXPECTANCY or quantifying risk. Some Mechanical Engineering projects could definitely have that -- like quantifying the risk of some earthquake happening at the site of an Skyscraper and possibly bringing it down -- but it is still not the same as trading.


BTTFT Michael View Post
Father to 3 amazing and beautiful children. Husband to a woman I don't deserve. Assistant scoutmaster to 15 kids I've watched grow up in front of me...a former Eagle Scout and lifetime NESA member. I build a pretty good pinewood derby car (last year we won 2nd place in the county).

Okay -- what has that have to do with trading? That has nothing to do with trading or a project.

Hitler could have had kids.

And that is great that you have kids and all ---- BUT THAT IS NOT IN QUESTION HERE and never was.


BTTFT Michael View Post
I live in East Bend, NC - because after the day before 9/11, my father died from congestive heart failure having been denied a heart transplant from a lifetime of taking Lipitor to function. My mother died 6 months later from lung cancer - refusing any treatment at the time because she loved my father so much she really didn't want to live without him. They were 58 years old.

I moved my family from NY to NC to be far away from planes flying into buildings and subway bombers. And to start fresh, far away from some pretty painful memories and some horrible people.

Ok... That Sucks ... it really does. Unfortunately that happens to every family.

Also planes flying into buildings and subway bombers >>> hardly happen. They are extremely statistically unlikely events. They are definitely more statistically prone to happen in New York and other globally known cities but only slightly higher. But ok fine.

I also don't like HUGE HUGE cities that much.

Still there are a ton of other damn good cities to move to -- but whatever.

Anyway -- you shouldn't be wasting your time responding to these reviews.

You should be using your time and money to make a system that actually works instead of looks good or interesting. Because that is all Flux is ... just interesting but unfortunately very very weak. At least in MY OPINION. It simply does not work -- without a system that actually WORKS.

If I have a system that ALREADY WORKS.... then... why give you $2,000 for your mortgage and non-existent trading skills.

I will EDIT THE ORIGINAL REVIEW to state >>>> that I traded your 'system' a few years ago just to be 100% accurate. But again I see you haven't really changed it from what I can tell --- sooooo.....

Take care and have a good day.

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  #277 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ZN, ZB, CL
 
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Posts: 357 since May 2011
Thanks: 107 given, 616 received


BTTFT Michael View Post
One of the great things about time cycles, is that every day is a "Trial". Once time cycles are identified, someone doing the research can project that information into the future and verify for themselves if the cycles were accurately identified, or not. I think that traditionally, people who are studying left-looking technical indicators are bound to that "30 day trial" mentality because of all the games the other developers play with signals disappearing/reappearing/repainting/painting bars afterwards. No?

Another great thing about cycle analysis is that it's testable. Time series analysis as well as a number of intraday volatility forecasting techniques can be used to forecast time lines. One thing I noticed at your website is that you provide no analytical data for your model. How much data did you use? What formulas did you employ and how do they compare? How do you deal with white noise? You mention that your model is based on bank trading times. How do you account for days when banks don't trade? What about HFT algos? What about gaps? What's the standard deviation for your model? Does it take the daily news into account?

Here's what a representation of what your model might look like if you did the correct analysis:



Note that to decompose this data, you need to know how to use Fourier analysis and other mathematical techniques that require high end software to do the job right.

Unfortunately, you're offering no mathematical proof that your setup works. It would be an easy task to show your data and the raw results without giving away your proprietary model. Your statement above suggests that you don't understand this type of analysis yourself.

It's also unfortunate that people are not asking you the right questions about your trading system.

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  #278 (permalink)
 TheBenefactor 
Pensacola FL
 
 
Posts: 57 since Jun 2016

I guess we will find out about this Back to the Future indicator.

Without consulting me, a friend ordered it last week.

He has only traded stock options before so any success he achieves will certainly not be attributed to his expertise.

In 35 years of trading "I have never found some black box guru stand alone software that consistently made money."

But if you guys want I will report on his results.

He will trade one contract on the Dow YM with a $6,000 account.

I said he might have a better chance at taking a $6,000 bet against Tom Brady this weekend but he is adamant.
We will see.
TB

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  #279 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: NQ
 
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Posts: 6,043 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 856 given, 7,913 received


TheBenefactor View Post
I guess we will find out about this Back to the Future indicator.

Without consulting me, a friend ordered it last week.

..
We will see.
TB

if that one fails then he might want this one

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  #280 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker: Several
Trading: ES CL ZB
 
Posts: 374 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 225 given, 380 received


TheBenefactor View Post
I guess we will find out about this Back to the Future indicator.

Without consulting me, a friend ordered it last week.

He has only traded stock options before so any success he achieves will certainly not be attributed to his expertise.

In 35 years of trading "I have never found some black box guru stand alone software that consistently made money."

But if you guys want I will report on his results.

He will trade one contract on the Dow YM with a $6,000 account.

I said he might have a better chance at taking a $6,000 bet against Tom Brady this weekend but he is adamant.
We will see.
TB

This is similar to your friend having just ordered the brand new driver that Jordan Spieth and several of the top guys on the PGA Tour have been using with great success. Now your friend takes the same driver that Tiger Woods uses to win the Masters, goes to the course and plays the worst round of golf in his entire life. Hits 4 balls out of bounds - even completely whiffs the ball on the hole where the drink-cart girl is watching. He comes home and says, "worst club I've ever used, all these equipment manufacturers are worthless, the only thing that works for everyone is balata and persimmon (aka price action). Hey look, I even found an ex-con who reviewed this club and he says it's a rip off too!

I've seen that story posted here on the forum a whole bunch of times. In truth, it's not the club but the practice, the time invested, the ability of each individual player. Same with trading. It doesn't really matter how good or poorly somebody else can achieve with any given tool - it really only matters if that particular tool is something that can be useful to you.

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  #281 (permalink)
 BTTFT Michael 
East Bend
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation, MetaTrader
Broker: Mirus/Kinetick
Trading: Futures, Oil, Gold, NQ
 
Posts: 49 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 65 received

Hello Friend,

It's important to note a few things here - if you would pass them along to your friend.

The software we've engineered isn't a stand along, black-box trading system. Its an analysis tool - on par with a volume indicator, or an order flow analysis tool. A black box trading system, or what is commonly referred to as an "up arrow down arrow" system is historically marketed as a "take every signal get rich" narrative....something we don't participate in because without exception, such ploys are one way roads to account losses.

Historically, the overwhelming number of traders use non-black box analysis tools - like volume or time, as a confirmation indicator to verify a setup they are studying. In the case of a TIME tool, a trader might examine a particular window of time, seeing that historically the market has a recurrence of buying activity in a certain window of time over a period of a few week's look back.

Some traders will also use an analysis tool like volume, OFA, or in our case TIME as a stand alone entry. That's fine, provided 3 boxes are "ticked off" in the process. Something I hope your friend follows procedurally speaking

A. Define a setup. Setup defined as having a mechanical entry with non-discretionary rules. I historically advocate a trend following entry - as in my experience about 60%+ traders that are reporting net profitability are trend trading. Minimally a 2:1 risk reward ratio (or higher) averaging around a 44-46% profitability. I also think a break even component is great to involve, ie not letting a winner turn into a loser. I find that a BE component at 150% of risk is a great place to start.

B. Backtesting the setup prior to using any live money in trading. Generally speaking, we want to see new users with a 100-200 data point backtest which carries a margin of error of +/- 10%. Once the backtest of the setup is complete, a forward test that has no more than a 10% degradation of success in SIM to verify the setup is achievable (good fills, no horrific slippage, etc)

So if your friend was using the standard Warp settings on a YM3M chart, I'd explore a model like this one (if he was attempting a stand alone signal only entry model)

https://www.screencast.com/t/Utidra7hMX

There's a known stop (above the line) with a 2:1 RR at each of the entry points (I draw a FIB with a 0,100, -150, -200 to help me draw it out for stops and targeting quickly). In a scenario like that, we ignore the countrend timing windows and focus on the trend windows (times that align with the prevailing trend, ie 120EMA or whichever trend line a trader is comfortable using).

C. A developed money management plan, on par with what Ryan Jones teaches in his book, "The Trading Game". I advocate an equity curve SMA crossover strategy for new traders to help them identify when to be live, and when to be in SIM. In a trend trading model for example, using any methodology for entry, it's not uncommon for markets to go into a consolidation phase where the model is ineffective. Jone's money management strategy (using the SMA crossover technique) can prevent horrific drawdowns, and create a plateau effect - waiting for the trend conditions which are favorable to the model to come back.

There's a great free tutorial that expands on those concepts of risk management here - if you can pass along to your friend:



Also, important to note as a software engineering company (vs. a CTA or trading room) customers don't share their personal account information with us usually. If I knew who the person was (you can PM me if you want) I'd advise them that they are probably severely undercapitalized at a $6,000 account. A $500 drawdown equates to a nearly 10% account drawdown which historically derails a trader psychologically and causes them to abandon their mechanical rulesets and do the typical things (move stops/targets/average in/deploy discretion randomly/analysis paralysis etc).

A 6K account would almost necessitate these 3 steps outlined be followed religiously IMO to preserve the capital in the account.

If you'd like to meet - the 3 of us (you and your friend) I'd be happy to include you both in the conferences. We can record the sessions...build a strategy together with him - go over the rules, do the backtesting, monitor the forward testing, and then construct the money management protections before he goes live with anything. If we follow that process, he shouldn't be live trading until at least 4-5 weeks from now. Let me know via email if that's something you'd like to do (Michael@backtothefuturetrading.com).

If he doesn't follow those steps, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly - he might as well put it down on Brady as his chances would be better.

-Michael






TheBenefactor View Post
I guess we will find out about this Back to the Future indicator.

Without consulting me, a friend ordered it last week.

He has only traded stock options before so any success he achieves will certainly not be attributed to his expertise.

In 35 years of trading "I have never found some black box guru stand alone software that consistently made money."

But if you guys want I will report on his results.

He will trade one contract on the Dow YM with a $6,000 account.

I said he might have a better chance at taking a $6,000 bet against Tom Brady this weekend but he is adamant.
We will see.
TB


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  #282 (permalink)
 TheBenefactor 
Pensacola FL
 
 
Posts: 57 since Jun 2016

Shows you not to take my football bet advice.

My friend would have lost his $6,000 betting on Brady, LOL.

Good news about my friend. His $6,000 account is up to $10,300.

He did not provide an accurate accounting of the software. He also began subscription to a trading alert service ( I will not mention their name because I would be rightfully labeled a promoter and I do not subscribe).

One of the traders in the service got my friend short the day after I posted his test of the software on Friday. As luck would have it he immediately caught a runner.

While he was short (been mostly short this week) he was catching great runners.

He did monitor the BTTF signals but could not take them because he was already in a trade.

He did report that the short signals looked very good and timely the long signals not so good but a couple could have made a little bit.

That of course is not useful as a report. Just wanted to update people.

Maybe next week he can come up with a better, more meaningful report.

Thanks for your ideas Michael BTTF. I was able to give my friend a few ideas. I had a significant career with a couple of our top investment banks in New York. We managed corporate underwriting and trading.

If we did not manage risk properly our careers would have been finished.

That is why I did not bet for or against Brady. I do not professionally understand sports bookings.

Maybe in my next life I will run a Vegas book, LOL.

TB

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  #283 (permalink)
 jmh13 
Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Ninja
Trading: DC
 
Posts: 262 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 17 given, 126 received

Ran calls for 30 days and it does give 70-75 % winners. These are the results I got from live trades. I am not a member or do not own the software. Trades from weekly list provided by BTTF.

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  #284 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
Montreal, Quebec
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Kinetick
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 1,559 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 706 given, 3,738 received


jmh13 View Post
Ran calls for 30 days and it does give 70-75 % winners. These are the results I got from live trades. I am not a member or do not own the software. Trades from weekly list provided by BTTF.

Oh boy oh boy. Is Michael still at it or has he gone back to 1955?

--------------------------------------------------------
- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
--------------------------------------------------------
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  #285 (permalink)
 jmh13 
Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Ninja
Trading: DC
 
Posts: 262 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 17 given, 126 received

Took his trade calls live and I got 70ish % wins. Time to time with trend filter.

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  #286 (permalink)
 jmh13 
Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Ninja
Trading: DC
 
Posts: 262 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 17 given, 126 received

ES 5 Min chart

8:30 Long Time out -.75

9:35 Long +2.00, runner BE

11:05 Long +2.00 runner BE

12:25 Long +.50 Time out

1:40 Long +1.75 Time out

Not a subscriber to this vendor.

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