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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)


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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)

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  #861 (permalink)
emini2000
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bobwest View Post
To add just one thing, I also have no doubt about whether the TST program is on the up and up, or whether they provide exactly what they offer.

It's easy to say, on the internet, that "It's a ripoff" (you can say that no matter what "it" is, and someone will agree with you.) A considered assessment of whether what they offer is a good thing for you is another matter. I think it can be, for some, but I'm trying to be neutral on this point. But the evidence of many who have had direct dealings with them, and of my own dealings with them, leaves me with no question about their honesty.

This probably will not be a view that will go unchallenged, since "It's a ripoff" is so easy to say, and always has many supporters. I just thought I'd put it in here.

Whether to go the TST route is still an individual question, and it will not be "yes" for everyone. But it's a matter of what's right for you, not whether they are above-board, in my view.

Bob.

There is no doubt in my mind that if one looks at it objectively that TST or anyone like them make they money off the combines, not the traders trading their money. Having said that, I've always said 'it is what it is'. That isn't bad or good, or a 'ripoff'. They've found a model to profit off of traders' desires to be funded. It has to be strict by nature, and one could say that if you can't be successful within those parameters then maybe you don't have the skills to trade for a living. Or at least within the parameters they set for them to be profitable with you trading their money. It's their business model, it's how they have set it so they can make money (knowing that most aren't going to be profitable traders), and as I said, it is what it is. Not good or bad, or a ripoff

As to your 'it's nobody's business what a trader makes', that's true, but I'm pretty convinced you don't see more publish, at least that have their shingles out as 'gurus' or those that run these rooms is because they just aren't profitable. I've been in this since the 90s. I've seen it all. I would say less than 1% if even that of all the rooms, etc, are scams. That's why you'll never see their trading results. Period.

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  #862 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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emini2000 View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that if one looks at it objectively that TST or anyone like them make they money off the combines, not the traders trading their money. Having said that, I've always said 'it is what it is'. That isn't bad or good, or a 'ripoff'. They've found a model to profit off of traders' desires to be funded. It has to be strict by nature, and one could say that if you can't be successful within those parameters then maybe you don't have the skills to trade for a living. Or at least within the parameters they set for them to be profitable with you trading their money. It's their business model, it's how they have set it so they can make money (knowing that most aren't going to be profitable traders), and as I said, it is what it is. Not good or bad, or a ripoff

Pretty much agree.


Quoting 
As to your 'it's nobody's business what a trader makes', that's true, but I'm pretty convinced you don't see more publish, at least that have their shingles out as 'gurus' or those that run these rooms is because they just aren't profitable. I've been in this since the 90s. I've seen it all. I would say less than 1% if even that of all the rooms, etc, are scams. That's why you'll never see their trading results. Period.

I think you're being too nice to these guys runnng trading rooms. I'm pretty sure that none of them are profitable, or even trade. Why should they bother? There are much easier ways to make money.


bobwest View Post
As to anyone publishing their live trading results, almost no one will, because it really is no one else's business. You do see real-time publication of real results in some trading journals, but not many. Nor will you, so nothing will ever be resolved in this way.

Bob.

My comment about no one publishing their live results was directed at traders posting here on the FIO forum, not the world in general or the "gurus," and was just in agreement with @matthew28's remark that you don't see much reporting of live TST-backed trading results here (or any other trading results), and that you shouldn't be surprised about that. People do want to keep their private business private.

There are trading journals here on FIO where the trader openly discusses his/her results; some are SIM, some are live trading. You get more of that in the Elite section, where traders tend to be more serious in their degree of commitment to the community (not to say non-Elite members are necessarily not serious, and no criticism is meant to someone who is not Elite, which is obviously a personal choice.) But I think most traders aren't going to expose themselves to public scrutiny, and I can't blame them.

Most traders aren't even going to expose themselves to posting anything at all, and I can't really blame them for that either.

Bob.

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  #863 (permalink)
 ziggy123 
boston
 
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bobwest View Post
Pretty much agree.



I think you're being too nice to these guys runnng trading rooms. I'm pretty sure that none of them are profitable, or even trade. Why should they bother? There are much easier ways to make money.



My comment about no one publishing their live results was directed at traders posting here on the FIO forum, not the world in general or the "gurus," and was just in agreement with @matthew28's remark that you don't see much reporting of live TST-backed trading results here (or any other trading results), and that you shouldn't be surprised about that. People do want to keep their private business private.

There are trading journals here on FIO where the trader openly discusses his/her results; some are SIM, some are live trading. You get more of that in the Elite section, where traders tend to be more serious in their degree of commitment to the community (not to say non-Elite members are necessarily not serious, and no criticism is meant to someone who is not Elite, which is obviously a personal choice.) But I think most traders aren't going to expose themselves to public scrutiny, and I can't blame them.

Most traders aren't even going to expose themselves to posting anything at all, and I can't really blame them for that either.

Bob.

I have to say - that this whole BS thing of NOT showing results by ROOM OPERATORS /GURU's Pisses me off -
some use the old BullShit excuse of the SEC or Futures comittee of some sort not allowing them because they manage other peoples money - now why is it BS?

1. Because no one is asking them to show the accounts that they supposedly manage - nor how much money is in it - we are asking them HOW MUCH the "GURU" makes!!!

2. If Warren Buffet or Bill Gates tell Forbes magazine how much their NET WORTH is in BILLIONS - then these TINY little futures operators even if making a few millions a year - should have NO ISSUE - and PLEASE no IRS coming after them because they advertise how much they make - this is an insult to our intelligence - basically pissing on our heads telling us is raining

Just my 2c
Steve

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  #864 (permalink)
goodoboy
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bobwest View Post

Most traders aren't even going to expose themselves to posting anything at all, and I can't really blame them for that either.

Bob.

Hello Bob,

Not me, once I start trading live, I will gladly show screenshot of my real brokerage account, if anyone ask me to.

I am not sure what is the big deal with that.

Anyone selling a trading service, should Easily show their brokerage statement. It is common sense. Most expert traders selling service normally do this. I have seen a few.

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  #865 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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goodoboy View Post
Hello Bob,

Not me, once I start trading live, I will gladly show screenshot of my real brokerage account, if anyone ask me to.

I am not sure what is the big deal with that.

Anyone selling a trading service, should Easily show their brokerage statement. It is common sense. Most expert traders selling service normally do this. I have seen a few.

Obviously, this is a personal choice.

I agree about someone selling a service, but the fact is that many do not provide it. Also, at various times people have come on FIO and simply faked a trading history, while trolling for customers. These can sometimes be caught, and sometimes not. Basically, any published record can be faked, which we have seen often enough.

For someone who is selling something, in an ideal world they would have to show their results to get any customers, but that is not always the case. So potential customers make their decisions based on whatever they find convincing. It is a matter of let the buyer beware.

But many private traders -- who are not looking for business -- do not want their personal finances out in the public sphere, which is just their preference, and nothing wrong with it. In fact, most forum members don't really do much or any posting, preferring to just lurk and read anonymously, which is also just their preference. To each his own.

Bob.

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  #866 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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This is why I absolutely love the trade dashboard with Jigsaw. Public verifiable record for all to see.

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  #867 (permalink)
emini2000
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TWDsje View Post
This is why I absolutely love the trade dashboard with Jigsaw. Public verifiable record for all to see.

How do they do?

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  #868 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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emini2000 View Post
How do they do?

If you're using the new Jigsaw Daytradr you can opt to share your stats with other people. There's some good traders on their leaderboard.

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  #869 (permalink)
 dannyinhouston 
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I have a retail account, but I entered a combine to try this out. I was thinking I would use Topstep instead of SIM when I had the need. I just passed the 50k combine, but then I started looking at the details of the funded account:

$85 / month for each instrument (CL, NQ, YM would cost $255/month for data feed)
$165 / month for the monthly fee to Topstep
RT commissions about double what I pay Dorman / Ninja Trader (over $8 RT per contract)
My lifetime Ninja Trader license cannot be used, I would have to get a professional license
All this for basically a $1000 account, since if you draw down $1000 it's closed. They say 50k account, but with the weekly / daily drawdown of $1000, you really have a $1000 account.

It's like spending $500/month for a $1000 account, with double commissions.

So I not going to pursue it.

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  #870 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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dannyinhouston View Post
I have a retail account, but I entered a combine to try this out. I was thinking I would use Topstep instead of SIM when I had the need. I just passed the 50k combine, but then I started looking at the details of the funded account:

$85 / month for each instrument (CL, NQ, YM would cost $255/month for data feed)
$165 / month for the monthly fee to Topstep
RT commissions about double what I pay Dorman / Ninja Trader (over $8 RT per contract)
My lifetime Ninja Trader license cannot be used, I would have to get a professional license
All this for basically a $1000 account, since if you draw down $1000 it's closed. They say 50k account, but with the weekly / daily drawdown of $1000, you really have a $1000 account.

It's like spending $500/month for a $1000 account, with double commissions.

So I not going to pursue it.

Hi Danny.

I'm not sure that you've got all of it right about the funded account.

I hope that someone at @TopstepTrader will see this and kick in if I have gotten anything wrong, but here is my take on your issues:

$85/month: yes, this is the CME "professional" data fee, which they require for each "exchange" in the CME group, and each of your instruments are on different "exchanges". (CL: NYMEX , NQ: CME Equity, YM: CBOT Equity.) This is a bummer. It's because you would be trading for a firm, and so would be a "professional" in the CME's eyes and have to pay the professional fee. I don't know why TST doesn't pay this for their traders, but they don't.

$165/month to Topstep: this is not required for a funded account. (It is for the Combine, and while you are still doing the Funded Trader Prep, which is also not the funded account. If you finish both within the first month, you only pay for the one month. But never for the funded account.)

RT commission: not $8.00. ( ) On the TST website, the all-in RT commission and fees for ES is listed as $3.96 if you're using NinjaTrader. NQ would be the same, because of the same exchange fees (2.36). Based on higher exchange fees for CL (3.00), I calculate the CL RT comm + fees as $4.50, all-in, RT.

- Comm/fees, with ES example, here: http://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/236068847

- Full fee schedule showing CL here: http://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/220389608-What-exchange-fees-per-product-do-I-have-to-pay-in-the-Funded-Account-

License: You have to provide your own license for the funded account. I have never seen anything about not being able to use your existing license, and no one who has been funded in a FIO journal that I have seen has ever mentioned not using their existing license, or needing a "professional license". I would definitely check with TST support on this question. http://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000165107-Is-NinjaTrader-free-in-the-Funded-Account-

$1,000 account: Your losses must be below $1,000 a day. This is not a total limit on your losses, just for a day (there is also initially a weekly loss limit.) There is also a trailing max drawdown of $2,000, which is a trailing number. There is some complexity here, and it is certainly true that you are not given $50,000 to work with. The fact is that you are given a contract limit (initially 2) and some tight loss limits to stay within. This will not work for everyone, but it's also not the same as having just $1,000 to work with. http://help.futures.topstep.com/hc/en-us/articles/220739167-Funded-Account-Rules

Of course, whether you do the funded account is your business, and it may not be a good thing for you. But I think that the costs are not as out of line as they appeared to you.

Good luck either way, and congrats for passing the Combine. This has eluded many (me, for instance ), and is a job well done.

Bob.

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