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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)
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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)

  #71 (permalink)
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Lornz View Post
I both swing/position and trade intraday. My trading is not time frame dependent, but purely event-driven.

Great point, thx for bringing it up: during the combine, all positions are intraday. Once you go live you could do swing/position trades.


Lornz View Post
It's hard to justify taking a few weeks off to do sim trading, then have to give up 20% and pay much more in commissions. But, like I stated earlier, it seems like an excellent solution for underfunded traders and beginners wanting a more realistic simulated experience....

I've seen this perspective before, and it still confuses me a bit. The parts I don't understand:

Taking a few weeks off to do sim trading - Assuming you would be trading an already active strategy, it seems like this would be more like just trading on a separate account. Or to concurrently test new ideas with zero capital at risk. I do understand it might require some diverting some attention to getting familiar to the platform, account requirements, and so forth. Fully aware of that part of it

Have to give up 20% ... and commissions - If it was capital you had provide, I absolutely understand this objection. However, in this scenario, you aren't providing any risk capital. So in my eyes it looks like choosing 100% of zero instead of 80% of gains from a 50k-150k account.

While I completely agree that so far this type of scenario seems like a great option for underfunded and newer traders, it actually seems like it would be very appealing to established traders.

Even if you're already trading a 500k-750k account, it seems like a good way to expand your trading program. Kind of along the lines of running a mini-fund (up to 150k, so more like micro-mini ). However, unlike the '2 and 20' where a fund manager gets 2% of assets and 20% of any gains, you're looking at keeping 80% of gains.

This also ties in with my earlier thought that this seems like a good way to test new ideas or segment your trading capital. Again, beneficial to an established trader. I am not an established, full-time trader, which may explain why this seems like a good idea


Lornz View Post
Alright, I'm done..

By the way, my results exceed the combine requirements every week!

I hope to see more your perspective on this topic, but can also accept that it may have already reached its point of diminishing returns for your time invested. Thanks for your thoughts and comments, Lornz, they are always appreciated.

Btw, kudos on the excellent combine results

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. ~ Seneca
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  #72 (permalink)
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Lornz View Post
I both swing/position and trade intraday. My trading is not time frame dependent, but purely event-driven.

I agree that the program looks is a good way to take sim trading seriously. I actually checked it out last year, when I tried to get my brother to start trading.

For the record, I never sim traded. I sat and observed the market, did some statistical analysis, prayed to a higher power, and consequently kicked ass!

It's hard to justify taking a few weeks off to do sim trading, then have to give up 20% and pay much more in commissions. But, like I stated earlier, it seems like an excellent solution for underfunded traders and beginners wanting a more realistic simulated experience....

Alright, I'm done..

By the way, my results exceed the combine requirements every week!

i havnt delved into the workings of this company totally yet, but did they offer you a funded account on your accomplishments?

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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  #73 (permalink)
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syxforex View Post
If what you say is true, it is very impressive Lornz. I agree the time factor is killer, I am in a very tough spot right now for all the time I have dedicated to this process. I personally think the value of a 20% payout on risk capital is a pretty good deal, considering all of the benefits of having a risk manager in the background and a network of really solid people to work with. The network is very good, better than trading alone I think. And when I get down to paradise and have an internet outage or the algos shut down the nymex again it will be nice to know know that my risk manager on the floor in Chicago will be there to take care of things... this cannot be understated...

Thanks!

I feel that we're talking past each other. I'm actually agreeing that it is a good program. I've stated several times that I wish I had this opportunity when I got started. I made very little money for the first 6 months, as my account size was too small for my strategy. But, if one is patient enough, the compounding effect soon kicks in.

I agree on the last point. That goes for choosing any broker, really. People are too focused on margin, but should really be concerned about someone picking up the phone in the case of an emergency.


omni72 View Post
Great point, thx for bringing it up: during the combine, all positions are intraday. Once you go live you could do swing/position trades.



I've seen this perspective before, and it still confuses me a bit. The parts I don't understand:

Taking a few weeks off to do sim trading - Assuming you would be trading an already active strategy, it seems like this would be more like just trading on a separate account. Or to concurrently test new ideas with zero capital at risk. I do understand it might require some diverting some attention to getting familiar to the platform, account requirements, and so forth. Fully aware of that part of it

Have to give up 20% ... and commissions - If it was capital you had provide, I absolutely understand this objection. However, in this scenario, you aren't providing any risk capital. So in my eyes it looks like choosing 100% of zero instead of 80% of gains from a 50k-150k account.

While I completely agree that so far this type of scenario seems like a great option for underfunded and newer traders, it actually seems like it would be very appealing to established traders.

Even if you're already trading a 500k-750k account, it seems like a good way to expand your trading program. Kind of along the lines of running a mini-fund (up to 150k, so more like micro-mini ). However, unlike the '2 and 20' where a fund manager gets 2% of assets and 20% of any gains, you're looking at keeping 80% of gains.

This also ties in with my earlier thought that this seems like a good way to test new ideas or segment your trading capital. Again, beneficial to an established trader. I am not an established, full-time trader, which may explain why this seems like a good idea


I hope to see more your perspective on this topic, but can also accept that it may have already reached its point of diminishing returns for your time invested. Thanks for your thoughts and comments, Lornz, they are always appreciated.

Btw, kudos on the excellent combine results

I don't know if I'd be able to manage trading using two trading platforms at the same time for my intraday stuff. I go into a state of hyperconcentration. I also don't really find the T4 very intuitive, though it is very robust and stable.

I see the 20% as interest on a loan. I have to pay 20% to borrow 150k to trade with, but what if I already have that or more? It makes sense as a way to test out new approaches, though.
I guess one also could look at it as insurance, paying a premium to avoid the risk of losing one's hard-earned cash. That maybe worthwhile to people struggling with fear of capital loss, but not cold-blooded psychopaths like myself.

Don't get me wrong, I think it looks like a good deal for a a large number of beginning traders. And, if one can use it in addition to what one's already doing, it can make sense for experienced traders, as well. But, if one has a strategy that is not scalable, it doesn't make sense to give up 20%. On the other hand. there are traders not producing the returns required by the combine, but have highly scalable strategies, making millions a year.

To be clear, I meant that my live trading results exceed the requirements of the combine -- not that I had taken the combine itself. However, I feel that I have to give it a go now; to put my money where my mouth is. I like a challenge, and will try to find time for it during the summer. I need to get my exams out of the way first. I'm pretty sure I will have my worst month due to performance anxiety, and I probably will have to register a new username!



madLyfe View Post
i havnt delved into the workings of this company totally yet, but did they offer you a funded account on your accomplishments?

No, I haven't done their combine. I tried it a few days, but I was doing it show my brother the ropes. Then it was his turn and things quickly took a turn for the worse...

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  #74 (permalink)
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syxforex View Post
If what you say is true, it is very impressive Lornz. I agree the time factor is killer, I am in a very tough spot right now for all the time I have dedicated to this process. I personally think the value of a 20% payout on risk capital is a pretty good deal, considering all of the benefits of having a risk manager in the background and a network of really solid people to work with. The network is very good, better than trading alone I think. And when I get down to paradise and have an internet outage or the algos shut down the nymex again it will be nice to know know that my risk manager on the floor in Chicago will be there to take care of things... this cannot be understated...

But that sounds almost like ... getting a job...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #75 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
But that sounds almost like ... getting a job...

That's what professional traders call it, and their certainly is a high degree of professionalism at topsteptrader. It certainly is hard to see it as a job at times, when you are sitting at home hacking away and wondering wtf you have gotten yourself into. If you were getting up and going to work at a bank or hedge fund everyday then you'd definitely feel like you were on the right career track so I try to keep in mind that many thousands of traders get up every day and do this professionally. I got to doing this after having my face severely disfigured by a gang of Triads in Asia and after finding myself unemployed in the finance industry during the financial crisis. It's hard to believe the years have just gone by and I'm still here working away at this. It's painful to be sure. Still can't afford to get my brow back where it should be, really painful shit. Anyways, I'm all in now, that's for sure, I will not quit. Working with the people at topstep has been really good for keeping it professional. Can't say enough about the community. I feel like I'm part of really good business and plan to make the best of it.

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  #76 (permalink)
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syxforex View Post
That's what professional traders call it, and their certainly is a high degree of professionalism at topsteptrader. It certainly is hard to see it as a job at times, when you are sitting at home hacking away and wondering wtf you have gotten yourself into. If you were getting up and going to work at a bank or hedge fund everyday then you'd definitely feel like you were on the right career track so I try to keep in mind that many thousands of traders get up every day and do this professionally. I got to doing this after having my face severely disfigured by a gang of Triads in Asia and after finding myself unemployed in the finance industry during the financial crisis. It's hard to believe the years have just gone by and I'm still here working away at this. It's painful to be sure. Still can't afford to get my brow back where it should be, really painful shit. Anyways, I'm all in now, that's for sure, I will not quit. Working with the people at topstep has been really good for keeping it professional. Can't say enough about the community. I feel like I'm part of really good business and plan to make the best of it.

I wan't criticizing anyone else... I was just speaking for myself...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #77 (permalink)
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That's cool, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or sardonic or what not... but I do know exactly what you mean. I really wish I was back in Hong Kong going to work at the IFC everyday. Not having a 'real' job and the structure is hard on the soul. One of the toughest things about trying to make prop trading a career outside of a big financial company is the doubt on so many levels about what you are doing. One of the big pros of working on your career at topsteptrader is being part of a structured organization, seeing people succeed, and hearing from pros everyday who have been in the industry for a long time, it definitely brings a sense of business structure. Not as good as working in a swank office but it's definitely a lot better than working alone at home somewhere..

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  #78 (permalink)
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has anyone from bmt actually become a live trader with these guys?

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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  #79 (permalink)
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I'm right on track to pass my current combine. We have a bunch of very good live traders who have come up through the program and are now trading live and making money. I started doing combines about 18 months ago. In that time I've made some good friends in the room and have been proud to see them move up through the process by passing the combine and reaching the ultimate goal of trading professionally. One of our guys who started about six months before I did and went live in the spring is making huge money now, 3k/day on average. You can't go wrong with this program. It's pretty simple. Show them you can trade in the simulator, prove your stats, and they will back you. It's a very controlled process where risk management is heavily emphasized and practiced. They won't let you lose real money, but they will let you make unlimited if you have the stuff.

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  #80 (permalink)
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syxforex View Post
I'm right on track to pass my current combine. We have a bunch of very good live traders who have come up through the program and are now trading live and making money. I started doing combines about 18 months ago. In that time I've made some good friends in the room and have been proud to see them move up through the process by passing the combine and reaching the ultimate goal of trading professionally. One of our guys who started about six months before I did and went live in the spring is making huge money now, 3k/day on average. You can't go wrong with this program. It's pretty simple. Show them you can trade in the simulator, prove your stats, and they will back you. It's a very controlled process where risk management is heavily emphasized and practiced. They won't let you lose real money, but they will let you make unlimited if you have the stuff.

how much have you spent in combine fees? also i guess im wondering why you wouldnt just try and beat the rules of the combine on your own before you join the combine?

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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