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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)
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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)

  #741 (permalink)
Elite Member
Monterey, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 80 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 28 given, 91 received

My associate just informed me that TST is highlighting 'Scott Morris' of 'The Oil Money' as one of their presenters, at the TopStep online expo. . . I'm afraid this largely makes the decision I'd been struggling with for me, and takes me off the fence.

Any company that would lend legitimacy/credibility to such a man and such an operation is not one I'd be willing to highlight or speak positively about without extreme caveats. I don't mean to be unduly harsh, TST, but I'd strongly urge some better vetting, if you're interested in preserving or improving your reputation. Scott has been mentioned here and elsewhere, by myself and several others, as being the epitome of all that's wrong with the trading marketplace.

He's a huckster and hype-man, nothing more. He'll find programmers capable of throwing any useable utility or indicator together, and instead of focusing on vetting said utility or subjecting it to any type of objective or scientific-method-guided testing, he'll instead focus his energies and efforts on advertising, in which he'll all but guarantee his product will put you on easy street for the rest of your years. It infuriates me to ponder how many traders hes destroyed in this manner, how much idealism and optimism hes driven into the ground with his false promises and edge-less utilities. I really don't like being negative, and this forum's lack of negativity is one its best traits, but in cases like these I think its warranted, and more than that, I think its important.

I'm disappointed, and more than a bit surprised. I would've thought perhaps they'd use futures.io as a resource to at least double-check the names of those individuals they chose as 'experts' at this expo, but to each their own. I don't mean to defame TST here. . . mistakes can be made, or perhaps they've simply been misled somehow. Attempting to give them the benefit of the doubt here, and not 'judge', but I think my decision is made.

Thanks for all of the helpful info/context in this thread, especially those that chimed in with personal experiences!

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  #742 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3,605 since Jan 2013
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Dionysus View Post
My associate just informed me that TST is highlighting 'Scott Morris' of 'The Oil Money' as one of their presenters, at the TopStep online expo. . . I'm afraid this largely makes the decision I'd been struggling with for me, and takes me off the fence.

Any company that would lend legitimacy/credibility to such a man and such an operation is not one I'd be willing to highlight or speak positively about without extreme caveats. I don't mean to be unduly harsh, TST, but I'd strongly urge some better vetting, if you're interested in preserving or improving your reputation. Scott has been mentioned here and elsewhere, by myself and several others, as being the epitome of all that's wrong with the trading marketplace.

He's a huckster and hype-man, nothing more. He'll find programmers capable of throwing any useable utility or indicator together, and instead of focusing on vetting said utility or subjecting it to any type of objective or scientific-method-guided testing, he'll instead focus his energies and efforts on advertising, in which he'll all but guarantee his product will put you on easy street for the rest of your years. It infuriates me to ponder how many traders hes destroyed in this manner, how much idealism and optimism hes driven into the ground with his false promises and edge-less utilities. I really don't like being negative, and this forum's lack of negativity is one its best traits, but in cases like these I think its warranted, and more than that, I think its important.

I'm disappointed, and more than a bit surprised. I would've thought perhaps they'd use futures.io as a resource to at least double-check the names of those individuals they chose as 'experts' at this expo, but to each their own. I don't mean to defame TST here. . . mistakes can be made, or perhaps they've simply been misled somehow. Attempting to give them the benefit of the doubt here, and not 'judge', but I think my decision is made.

Thanks for all of the helpful info/context in this thread, especially those that chimed in with personal experiences!

Personally, I don't know this guy Morris, and, while I did get an email about a group of presenters they are going to put on in an all-day webinar, I just deleted it without interest.

My feeling is that givers of advice are generally suspect in the trading world. There are, of course, exceptions, but I am not looking for this kind of resource with TST. It's also not the main thing that they are in the business of providing.

My experience with the Combine and with their support staff has been that they perform exactly as promised. This is their principal product, and I see no reason for complaint about it. They are, in fact, extremely reasonable and are providing a service that many will find valuable. (I should note that the Combine rules clearly do not fit every trading style, and will not work well for every trader.)

I do feel some degree of disappointment that they are putting on a trading advice event with a lot of outside "experts" (the email lists 5 different people), since I question the value of these things even if the presenter actually has something good to say. I would also not turn to TST for this kind of information in any case, since it's not their actual strength.

Without knowing anything about any particular presenter, I think it is reasonable to assume that, if there are any issues, they simply made a mistake in their selection process. There is no reason I know of to assume that TST is deliberately pushing bad information on the public, and I think the overall track record suggests the opposite. Or, to put it more simply, I think they are honest people. (I wonder if I will get some spam on this... experience suggests I will.)

I have no idea what you were considering them for, nor whether this has any bearing on your decisions. They do bring on outside presenters and "experts" from time to time, and I certainly do think that skepticism toward any "expert" is always in order.

They have also, at various times, brought on good people on their live chat events. I have seen Morad Askar ("FT71") and Linda Raschke mentioned. So it's a mixed bag.

I have no stake in this, either way, and hope you make a decision that you are happy with.

Also, I would like to tag @TopstepTrader here, in hopes that they will will take a look and make some comment (beyond the obvious "We try to get the best speakers" type of stuff.) Generally, it benefits them if they receive negative as well as positive feedback, and if there are issues about a particular speaker, it is worthwhile to let them know.

I also think that being in the business of presenting "experts" is a tricky business that they should have a lot of caution about. I think, for the reasons stated, that this is pretty much a bad idea, since they are exposing their customers to the ad pitches of people who are in the business of charging for info on how to become successful traders -- which generally does not work out well. I would be happier if they didn't do that at all, and certainly if they stayed with those who are real experts.... Just my take on the whole thing.

Bob.


Last edited by bobwest; January 19th, 2017 at 09:24 AM.
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  #743 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
San Diego California
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkorSwim
Broker/Data: InteractiveBrokers
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 127 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 45 received


Just want to make sure with the rules of TST. Yes I can read, but sometimes I'm a little slow.
The max daily loss limit is net right? Aka it doesnt add up just all your losers and not your winners?

So lets say one trade I lose $300, then next trade I gain $200, next trade I lose $200.
Then I would only be at a $300 loss for the day right? Not $-500?. And everything matters in the order of your trades?

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  #744 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.topsteptrader.com 
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, CTS (T4), Si
Favorite Futures: ALL- Futures, Forex, Equities
 
TopstepTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 221 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 47 given, 650 received


Dionysus View Post
My associate just informed me that TST is highlighting 'Scott Morris' of 'The Oil Money' as one of their presenters, at the TopStep online expo. . . I'm afraid this largely makes the decision I'd been struggling with for me, and takes me off the fence.

Any company that would lend legitimacy/credibility to such a man and such an operation is not one I'd be willing to highlight or speak positively about without extreme caveats. I don't mean to be unduly harsh, TST, but I'd strongly urge some better vetting, if you're interested in preserving or improving your reputation. Scott has been mentioned here and elsewhere, by myself and several others, as being the epitome of all that's wrong with the trading marketplace.

He's a huckster and hype-man, nothing more. He'll find programmers capable of throwing any useable utility or indicator together, and instead of focusing on vetting said utility or subjecting it to any type of objective or scientific-method-guided testing, he'll instead focus his energies and efforts on advertising, in which he'll all but guarantee his product will put you on easy street for the rest of your years. It infuriates me to ponder how many traders hes destroyed in this manner, how much idealism and optimism hes driven into the ground with his false promises and edge-less utilities. I really don't like being negative, and this forum's lack of negativity is one its best traits, but in cases like these I think its warranted, and more than that, I think its important.

I'm disappointed, and more than a bit surprised. I would've thought perhaps they'd use futures.io as a resource to at least double-check the names of those individuals they chose as 'experts' at this expo, but to each their own. I don't mean to defame TST here. . . mistakes can be made, or perhaps they've simply been misled somehow. Attempting to give them the benefit of the doubt here, and not 'judge', but I think my decision is made.

Thanks for all of the helpful info/context in this thread, especially those that chimed in with personal experiences!

@Dionysus - Thank you for this feedback, it is very important. This is the first time we have hosted one of these events and we realize there is still a lot to learn to ensure it's the quality and expectation of both our brand and our users. In the short term, we will be adding a disclaimer stating we do not endorse these products nor have we independently vetted them for their accuracy or claims. This is strictly an educational event and it is each traders responsibility to determine whether a product or service is a good fit for him or her.

In the long term, it may make sense for us to put together some sort of guidelines or threshold in terms of those who participate in events like these. Of course, we can never fully vet someone as there will inevitably be instances where bad experiences have occurred. Unfortunately, that is the nature of our business. The key we have found is to set realistic expectations as trading is ultimately an individual sport regardless of what vendor or tools you use. The buck starts and stops with those who "pull the trigger" so to speak.

On another note, you've mentioned multiple times on this forum that you've been "vetting" TopstepTrader for some type of website or venture you are starting. I welcome the opportunity to speak with you directly and candidly. I would think it only be fair in your ability to assess our business. Please feel free to contact us directly at 888-407-1611 or private message us to set up a convenient time to speak.

Again, we appreciate your feedback and will certainly use it to improve.

Trade well,

TopstepTrader Team

If you have any questions about our products or services at TopstepTrader, please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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  #745 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.topsteptrader.com 
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, CTS (T4), Si
Favorite Futures: ALL- Futures, Forex, Equities
 
TopstepTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 221 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 47 given, 650 received


emptymind View Post
Just want to make sure with the rules of TST. Yes I can read, but sometimes I'm a little slow.
The max daily loss limit is net right? Aka it doesnt add up just all your losers and not your winners?

So lets say one trade I lose $300, then next trade I gain $200, next trade I lose $200.
Then I would only be at a $300 loss for the day right? Not $-500?. And everything matters in the order of your trades?

@emptymind - You are correct. The Daily Loss Limit is calculated according to your unrealized Net P&L, so it takes into account all of your winner, losers, and current open positions.

Hope that helps,

TopstepTrader Team

If you have any questions about our products or services at TopstepTrader, please send me a Private Message or use the FIO "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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  #746 (permalink)
Elite Member
Auckland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: CL and ES
 
Posts: 710 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 3,717 given, 661 received

Topstep Traders

Scott Morris has left a trail of destruction and he is not a trader but a Marketer.

Is this your standard of vetting. First dont follow what Ninja Trader has been doing for years.

Be a leader and do what you do best. Also if you are to bring any speakers from another trading room or company, validate their track record and ask for verified trading/ broker account to see for yourself if the said speaker/room has any legitimate trading knowledge.

Very dissappointed and best still as its not lost to let Scott Morris go off the list . Respect yourself and respect decent people who have supported you for years. Dont fall in the same basket as Ninja Trader

Sharmas


TopstepTrader View Post
@Dionysus - Thank you for this feedback, it is very important. This is the first time we have hosted one of these events and we realize there is still a lot to learn to ensure it's the quality and expectation of both our brand and our users. In the short term, we will be adding a disclaimer stating we do not endorse these products nor have we independently vetted them for their accuracy or claims. This is strictly an educational event and it is each traders responsibility to determine whether a product or service is a good fit for him or her.

In the long term, it may make sense for us to put together some sort of guidelines or threshold in terms of those who participate in events like these. Of course, we can never fully vet someone as there will inevitably be instances where bad experiences have occurred. Unfortunately, that is the nature of our business. The key we have found is to set realistic expectations as trading is ultimately an individual sport regardless of what vendor or tools you use. The buck starts and stops with those who "pull the trigger" so to speak.

On another note, you've mentioned multiple times on this forum that you've been "vetting" TopstepTrader for some type of website or venture you are starting. I welcome the opportunity to speak with you directly and candidly. I would think it only be fair in your ability to assess our business. Please feel free to contact us directly at 888-407-1611 or private message us to set up a convenient time to speak.

Again, we appreciate your feedback and will certainly use it to improve.

Trade well,

TopstepTrader Team



Last edited by sharmas; January 19th, 2017 at 11:57 AM.
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  #747 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
San Diego California
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkorSwim
Broker/Data: InteractiveBrokers
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 127 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 45 received


TopstepTrader View Post
@emptymind - You are correct. The Daily Loss Limit is calculated according to your unrealized Net P&L, so it takes into account all of your winner, losers, and current open positions.

Hope that helps,

TopstepTrader Team

Thank you for the confirmation. Is there any way to configure Ninjatrader to show the Net unrealized P&L including commissions?


Last edited by emptymind; January 19th, 2017 at 08:42 PM.
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  #748 (permalink)
Elite Member
Saskatchewan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: TST / Rithmic
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 954 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 2,611 given, 1,678 received


emptymind View Post
Thank you for the confirmation. Is there any way to configure Ninjatrader to show the Net unrealized P&L including commissions?

You need to go into the tools tab
Then commission tab, in here scroll down till u see ur data provider an example would be:
+Futures - Rithmic { $0.00 min: 0/0

Click on ur data provider the (+) symbol
Select commission levels, once u select that on the very far right after it says (NO commission levels defined) you will see a little gray box with three dots, click that and then once in there click the (new) button and on the right of that set ur commission per side.
Hit ok and ur done, don't forget to save when u exit NT

There is also easy to watch vids on you tube showing u exactly what i said if you need a visual instead.

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  #749 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
North Carolina
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 270 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 62 given, 256 received

Anyone know why EMD isn't support? S&P 400. Surprised they let traders trade NAT gas.

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  #750 (permalink)
Elite Member
Monterey, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 80 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 28 given, 91 received



bobwest View Post
Personally, I don't know this guy Morris, and, while I did get an email about a group of presenters they are going to put on in an all-day webinar, I just deleted it without interest.

My feeling is that givers of advice are generally suspect in the trading world. There are, of course, exceptions, but I am not looking for this kind of resource with TST. It's also not the main thing that they are in the business of providing.

My experience with the Combine and with their support staff has been that they perform exactly as promised. This is their principal product, and I see no reason for complaint about it. They are, in fact, extremely reasonable and are providing a service that many will find valuable. (I should note that the Combine rules clearly do not fit every trading style, and will not work well for every trader.)

I do feel some degree of disappointment that they are putting on a trading advice event with a lot of outside "experts" (the email lists 5 different people), since I question the value of these things even if the presenter actually has something good to say. I would also not turn to TST for this kind of information in any case, since it's not their actual strength.

Without knowing anything about any particular presenter, I think it is reasonable to assume that, if there are any issues, they simply made a mistake in their selection process. There is no reason I know of to assume that TST is deliberately pushing bad information on the public, and I think the overall track record suggests the opposite. Or, to put it more simply, I think they are honest people. (I wonder if I will get some spam on this... experience suggests I will.)

I have no idea what you were considering them for, nor whether this has any bearing on your decisions. They do bring on outside presenters and "experts" from time to time, and I certainly do think that skepticism toward any "expert" is always in order.

They have also, at various times, brought on good people on their live chat events. I have seen Morad Askar ("FT71") and Linda Raschke mentioned. So it's a mixed bag.

I have no stake in this, either way, and hope you make a decision that you are happy with.

Also, I would like to tag @TopstepTrader here, in hopes that they will will take a look and make some comment (beyond the obvious "We try to get the best speakers" type of stuff.) Generally, it benefits them if they receive negative as well as positive feedback, and if there are issues about a particular speaker, it is worthwhile to let them know.

I also think that being in the business of presenting "experts" is a tricky business that they should have a lot of caution about. I think, for the reasons stated, that this is pretty much a bad idea, since they are exposing their customers to the ad pitches of people who are in the business of charging for info on how to become successful traders -- which generally does not work out well. I would be happier if they didn't do that at all, and certainly if they stayed with those who are real experts.... Just my take on the whole thing.

Bob.


Great post, Bob. . and thanks much for the tag, it's helpful to hear directly from the source.

It really is a minefield, this marketplace. The fact that the Linda Raschke's of the world seem to rub shoulders as equals with the Morris' of the world is something that I find both baffling and upsetting, but at the end of the day the good-ness or bad-ness of any piece of advice or guidance is largely subjective, unfortunately.

I've grown pretty fond of 'Quora' lately, as a means for both learning and sharing what I've learned. An invaluable resource, precisely because it seems to be people by those with a genuine desire to teach and learn, as opposed to greedy hard-selling vendors looking to increase their bottom line.

That's not to say I think there's no place for those that wish to market their products or services or time, just that its quite the tightrope balancing act. Our own 'Kevdog' Kevin Davey is a good example of someone who is a proven trader first, who seems to have a genuine desire to share his knowledge and help others, and happens to charge in so doing. . if he didn't charge for his time and knowledge, chances are good that he wouldn't be able to find the time to help as many individuals as much as he does, and I'm sure many are happy to pay in exchange for the leg-up.

However, broadly speaking, I've never seen a more toxic and dishonest marketplace, with a higher percentage of charlatans and frauds, which is why I'm so sensitive to such issues. It's not like being conned into purchasing a product from an infomercial, where a customer loses his purchase price and walks away having learned a lesson. It's far worse, far more nefarious than that, in that the customer is purchasing means or methods or tools to invest potentially significant sums of their own money in the open markets. This can cost children's college funds, retirement monies, even lead to personal bankruptcy . . . all so that some shameless individual can score a single sale. Often times they're essentially selling the means for financial destruction, and Scott is a prime example of this.

I agree with your take on TST, and thanks again for the input and tagging!

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