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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)
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Anybody heard of topsteptrader (review)

  #611 (permalink)
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What does VK have to do with TST ??

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  #612 (permalink)
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TST Combine Format

This discussion is very interesting and highlights the different views across futures.io in terms of how members view trading. I looked recently at the TST site as I'm thinking (again!) about doing a Combine and noted some clear changes to the format. Here's my 'Two Penneth' on TST and the Combine/Funding process....

TST is a business and as such are in the business of making $$. Training and education is great and I'm sure there are a lot of traders that have benefited from TST training etc. and going through the Combine process BUT TST I believe isn't in existence solely to make great traders and allow them to go out and fill their own pockets with bags of $$. This may sound harsh but the changes to the format of the Combine and Funding process clearly highlight their business plan and the main sources of revenue;

1) Combine Process
2) Funded Traders

The 10 Day, 20 Day and Continuous Combines have been changed to the one Current offering that has no time limit to achieve the Profit Targets. The key takeouts are;

No Refund on successfully following rules & >0 Profit
No Automatic Rollover
You can reset the Combine during the current month by paying $100
If you have not reached your profit target in month1 you can continue (ad infinitum) by paying for another month

I believe the above changes bring in more $$, add to the success rate and also help improve traders, in that people are more selective with the trades they take and patience as most know is a key criteria to long-term profitability.

The above means more Combine completes.. and potentially more funded traders

This is where it get really interesting...

TST have improved the post-combine process by being more transparent having two clear steps;

1) Funded Trader Preparation
2) Funded Trader

In terms of the $150k Combine this means..

TFP: Follow the rules, trade 10 days in 60 calendar days and achieve $3k profit (as apposed to the Combine Target of $9k) but now with the added condition of a Scaling Plan

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This makes the $3k Profit Target harder as you have to start with only 3 Lots. Before you can go to 4 Lots you have to make $1.5k .. that's 40 (Net) Ticks in the ES. To go to 5 Lots it's another $500 .. that's another 10 (Net) Ticks. You get the picture .. It's more like real life .. It's harder than going for a $3k profit with 20 Lots and a 12 Tick target and hoping your right!

Overall the TFP Target should be achievable if you follow the rules (including being FLAT on News Releases).

Bingo .. Your now a Funded Trader What does that mean?

An initial 10 Trading days trading within the rules under the Scaling Plan then the Clock Stops

Whatever Profit (Net) you have after 10 days is your Loss Limit. That's tough under the Scaling Plan.

TST are limiting their exposure moving forward (very clever) and If you succeed (can build on the initial 10 days) everyone wins.

Overall I think the changes are good and make sense (especially for TST's bottom line). It would be interesting to see how many Funded Traders get through the first 10 days and can continue to build on their account with the very tight Draw-down Limit. I guess the key is being very selective when you trade and trying to make sure each of the first 10 days is a winner!

I'm not sure I am disciplined enough to work within these rules but it would be a worthwhile challenge

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  #613 (permalink)
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Funded Trader Stats

I would not say that the TST program is right for everyone or that it is a good match for everyone's trading style. But it seems to be working for many. I thought I would share something from an email from TST that was sent out on December 30, 2015:

-------------

With that said, I want to share how those with TopstepTrader® found success in 2015:

97% of Trading Combine® participants surveyed stated that the Combine has improved their trading skills
Over 370 traders succeeded in achieving a Funded Account™
Those funded maintained discipline, with less than 4.3% violating their Daily Loss Limit
71% of funded accounts are maintaining or growing

--------------

(Email from Michael Patak, CEO, sent 12/30/15.)

In my view, that is one hell of a lot of funded traders for the year.

Bob.

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  #614 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
71% of funded accounts are maintaining or growing

Thanks Bob. I had wondered what this figure was. I had guessed something much lower, maybe two or three times the generally bandied around figure of 10% or so of day traders making it and the rest failing. Over two-thirds of the accounts is very impressive.
I didn't get this email so will now go and check my spam folder and see what else is in there.
Happy New Year.

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  #615 (permalink)
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matthew28 View Post
Over two-thirds of the accounts is very impressive.

It certainly is. I imagine that having the FTP stage effectively increases that figure quite a bit, and that it's more than "earning its keep".

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  #616 (permalink)
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Agreed.
FTP always seemed like a good idea to me. I couldn't understand the posts complaining about having to spend another ten days doing it. They seemed to regard passing the Combine as a one off prize and not that they were required to repeat the same profitable performance over the weeks/months/years of the future.
Reading the TST review over on TradingSchools.org (which I learnt about from another thread), they give a figure of 50% of people maintaining their live status, though that review was last year. But either of those figures or somewhere in between is a big step up in performance over the general trading population.

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  #617 (permalink)
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matthew28 View Post
Agreed.
FTP always seemed like a good idea to me. I couldn't understand the posts complaining about having to spend another ten days doing it. They seemed to regard passing the Combine as a one off prize and not that they were required to repeat the same profitable performance over the weeks/months/years of the future.
Reading the TST review over on TradingSchools.org (which I learnt about from another thread), they give a figure of 50% of people maintaining their live status, though that review was last year. But either of those figures or somewhere in between is a big step up in performance over the general trading population.

Probably, the total number of failed combine attempts plotted against maintained live accounts ends back down in the single-digit %s. It shows though that they have a good system for finding [or 'training'?..] the consistent traders.

I personally took a lot from my combine attempts & the LTP. And even if it's ultimately not for you - there are much much MUCH more expensive ways of learning in the trading world.

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  #618 (permalink)
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I just got this email from TST, which I think is very significant.

Many of the rules, including some that traders have found to be restrictive, are being eliminated. What's left is more in the nature of loss control rules, which I have always thought to be the main value of the rules anyway:

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Of course, there will still be those who think any rules are too much, but that's another story.

Bob.

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  #619 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
I just got this email from TST, which I think is very significant.

Many of the rules, including some that traders have found to be restrictive, are being eliminated. What's left is more in the nature of loss control rules, which I have always thought to be the main value of the rules anyway:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).



Of course, there will still be those who think any rules are too much, but that's another story.

Bob.


Removed:
Always implement stops with an open position


Really???? For me that's the most important rule I have in trading.
Sorry, I don't get it, why did they remove that rule?

Also I see that the business with founded trader getting hot.
Lewis Borsellino does now the same thing and that after being a guest speaker on the TsT Squawk Radio!! A kind of nasty


Last edited by michaelf; January 8th, 2016 at 10:00 AM. Reason: wasn't finished, lol
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  #620 (permalink)
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michaelf View Post
Removed:
Always implement stops with an open position


Really???? For me that's the most important rule I have in trading.
Sorry, I don't get it, why did they remove that rule?

It's an important rule for many traders. You can still make it your own rule, it's just not required now.

There are lots of traders who either have very wide stops, or no stops at all. They rely on their reading of the market to tell them when to get out. (For example, many of the excellent traders on the spoos thread do not have stops in the market -- @Big Mike is one of them.)

I know that over time, many traders, with diverse trading styles, have wanted a relaxation of some of the rules, including this one. It looks to me like TST has simply kept the crucial rules that require you to control your losses, and kept unbreakable limits on the losses they are willing to accept, and then left it up to the traders how they are going to manage that.

In the past they have made a big deal about not telling traders how to trade, just requiring them to keep losses under control and to turn a profit. This is another step in that direction.

Note that it doesn't say, "Don't use stops." They just are not going to disqualify you if you don't. But they will disqualify you if you lose too much....

Bob.

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